Gadgetory

this is josh from the verge and we are live with matias duarte from google and android and you guys have an announcement that you're making today first off are we live or is everything good Chad I just want to make we're good okay cool you just kind of hurried over here you guys are making an announcement today and we're kind of getting first crack at here so so what is what are you guys talking about what's happening that's right today we are releasing this first style guide for Android Ice Cream Sandwich so today on the Android developer site you'll find a blog post that describes that we've done and you'll also find a link to Android design which is a document but it's also a living site that's going to be your one-stop reference to find out how you can make beautiful simple applications for ice cream sales it so you haven't done this for earlier versions of Android there's no we don't have an up-to-date style guide and so our mission for ice cream sandwich was to make it beautiful to make it simple to make it powerful and there's really three parts to that one we needed the OS right the OS and all the apps that's a big part of it right um the other part was the framework you know it doesn't get noticed by people who buy the phones like Galaxy Nexus or who get the upgrade but the framework itself has changed the framework itself makes it much easier to make beautiful simple apps the part that was missing until today is a guideline the tells developers how to use that framework how to follow the patterns and new conventions that we introduced in Ice Cream Sandwich how they can make stuff that is beautiful and simple and powerful using the new capabilities of ice cream sandwich so so you thought it was fairly necessary to start to say to developers hey you're doing great work with like your apps but you could just make it a little bit more handsome a little bit more beautiful that would really be great I mean you're a designer you clearly put a focus on design we've talked about this a bunch we did an interview months ago and more recently on our show we really focused on design ice cream sandwich is a big departure from the last version of Android for smart because it's such a big departure that it's so important provide guidance and in fact all designers crave guidance right you need to have constraints and you need to know the environment that you're working in anytime you're doing a creative component that's part of a larger whole like I'm sure the verge has a style guide every every publication we do have a style a style good yeah that is true every platform in the world also has a style guide I'm so for ice cream sandwich we needed to have that style guide as well but you didn't but you haven't up until this point I've not had that style guide for for the other versions I mean no we didn't that's pretty crazy don't you think well that's why we have a lot it's just something that you did is like a mandate from this is a Matthias mandate is that a thing can I TM that i'm mateus mandate yeah I don't know if I get a stamp for it maybe yeah we are gonna get a little stamp and then they put on your goddamn dates that that's a mean we get a virtually a watermark yeah it's gonna be tough folks I don't do anything about paper yeah so a bit was this something you said oh yeah no to my mind like ice cream sandwiches a release is not complete until we get this so get out right so and it's out today yes so I can go get it developers and go get it what are you going to do to ensure that people are following that are they're actually taking this stuff to heart I mean because it's one thing to put it out there it's another thing to actually get people to say oh yeah my stuff have been really ugly let me fix it oh oh I get it Matthias I've been making ugly apps and now I have to fix them up I think that's putting the wrong spin on it it's not about people doing stuff that's ugly it's about people not understanding what they should do right there's plenty of times what it's important to break the rules but you want to know that you're breaking the rules right it's it's one thing to be the audacious rebel who really knows what they're doing it's another thing to turn down a one-way street because you just didn't notice that it was okay right right so steering wheels broken basically or just there was no sign yeah right or there was no sign so so this is really about telling people what the rules of the road are you know people of course are free to do whatever they want with it we're going to follow this up with a lot of evangelism right that the first round of this is is press obviously an NCS is a great opportunity to do that to get the word out that rat we have the design guidelines out that we are engaging heavily that we want to talk to designers and developers and that this is just the beginning of these guidelines actually we want to hear feedback from them we want to know what more can we tell them how more can we help them right is this a reaction to your competition I mean Microsoft has made a big focus has put a big focus on the design of Windows Phone they've really talked about it quite a bit and it's a beautiful product I know you have your opinions of the what did you call airport signage design you don't want to repeat that dude here k very uncomfortable I'm making you very uncomfortable right now and I don't have to answer that the spotlight spotlight but also i mean but apple clearly a design focused company iOS is a very design focused operating system google has historically not been known for design we talked about this a while ago ICS like I said it's very different is this in some way reaction to what the competition is doing and how much emphasis they're putting on design I mean if you want to be serious about design you have to do this stuff right ice cream sandwich is Android getting serious about design and this is part of that right so we're actually taking questions from we're supposed to be taking questions from people and I don't know if this is not working or not because I don't see any but we're grabbing questions and we'll have some in a second but one thing we have about while we wait for those to come in or I figure out actually hey guys can I get sorry this is live weekend through this together last minute because you sprung it on us that you had an announcement you want to talk about can somebody come in here grab this iPad and hold on one second sorry okay good and just let them get some questions uh yeah whatever would be fine that's great are we getting questions in I think okay cool but but but I actual antacid before we get into the questions we've seen a lot of ICS tablets here at CES there have been no ICS phones what is do you know what the holdup is I mean it seems like your partners are being very slow on the on the on the on the uptake of you know honestly I don't know I haven't even really seen what's on the show floor I've been so busy so you don't you don't know that there are no Ice Cream Sandwich Islands here no so you're saying hey I have I have like zero visibility right now into with what's been announced and what hasn't been announced tablets phones anything right you're just here making the announcement then back to back up north I have a few a few other meetings that's really I wasn't just your coming here to the trailer to have this interview and then you're leaving hmm that's what I was told um so I have a couple questions got this worked out yes how does the style guide fit into the whole fragmentation story is it a first step to enforce a certain consistency took a pretty good question so is this is this something that you guys are doing kind of to start to try to crack down on the fragmentation of not only platform I mean I'm for a bit apps it's no secret that we hate it when people use the word fragmentation because it means so many different things to so many different people and it's like a word that intrinsically is negative it's like you know well it's like the what are you going to do about the beating your wife problem right like there's like well that also i'm concerned what is Google doing about that wife-beating actually that one we're we're neglecting yeah black beating I mean yeah very bad so so people mean so many different things when they talk about fragmentation one of the kinds of things that they might mean this style guide is intended to address and that's the the way that applications work together right and the way that that your experience in the operating system is kind of a cohesive harmonious whole right the reason why you have style guides and the reason why I have conventions within an operating system is because you know everything works better together if they all follow certain standards if they all follow certain practices if things are where you expect them to be right it's like when you buy a set of tools from one manufacturer they all have a similar kind of grip right whether they're tools for your kitchen or tools for your garage or whatever so they tend to work better together we want applications in Ice Cream Sandwich to take on the same benefits in the same attributes of the new applications that we launched an ice cream sandwich we want to show developers how they can do that exactly what they have to do what metrics they have to follow with what patterns they can utilize what new tools we that they might not have realized what things we we've learned from the past that maybe didn't work so well that had been a convention right we're now saying you know maybe you should think about staying away from that do you have is that and it sounds to me like you're saying everybody wants to do things or things you know when they're working on their app maybe they have an idea for how you get to point from point A to point B and there are some basic there's some basic functionality you want people to gather around sort of standardized you know here's how you here's where your menu should be here's where your back you know yeah well you're not a back button because you've got a back button but you know here's how you get somebody from this screen to that screen I mean I know that you guys have instituted actly in an ice cream sandwich the this kind of panel would he call what you swiping the new pager the viewpager that's that's the aps i decided i didn't i didn't maybe but you've got this like the thief of swiping through an application for Donald swiping right like in the People app for instance you've got that's what your diet house are you going listed idea talks about the pattern of when you should use that one that's appropriate what kinds of screens is that appropriate to use it for right um what kinds of screens you know what kinds of limits should you be aware of when you're using that right you know for certain applications we work very hard to make sure that you never swipe further than three screens away well I've noticed is it three is that what you're trying to box it too but not always right so we do that very deliberately in the phone app and the People app but you'll notice in market we actually have a much wider swath right of swiping and it all has to do with understanding what is the use case of the user in that application so the style guide starts to give you that guidance starts to give you the the heuristics that lets you know okay if this is an application that i'm using a lot and i'm really jumping between these these three different states a lot or these multiple states a lot probably three is about the limit right but if it's an application where this is really intended to encourage exploration and browsing and it's not about i always want to get to one place really quickly right then then it's okay to go broader like in google reader you I mean google reader in gmail or you have a constant swipe our music as well right you're swiping further I mean really it's actually less of your moving between panels and something like reader and you just send reading yes right so it has dual use that functionality but you want people to understand that because obviously it's not saying its built-in and the one what's interesting about that is there's one app which is tweetdeck which is a twitter app that I use that had that functionality for a long time it was the only one really until you guys brought it to market was that an influence at all I mean it was it was fairly unique when they did actually not familiar with tweetdeck are you kidding them no I'm not kidding you I weighed her out I used the the native Twitter client the the horizontal swiping was was I mean it was it was basically born in the launcher of the original android OS right and then it was a pattern that was really first brought into our apps in the music app right you just thinking what you just think it's a really and that was like around the froyo release but it's a terrific pattern because it it's a way to navigate that's much more engaging than pressing a button and waiting you just think having a builder just a swipe between these spaces is really satisfying right and it's also a great way to segment information because it naturally snaps to those pages it's not like when you have a vertical scroll where you want to get to the next page well it doesn't scroll by page so you're always in that like okay you know like when you email you know you don't have that same kind of confidence you just can't kind of swipe it and then know that you're going to get exactly to that next set of content you want to read right right you're a big fan of swiping yes you did swiping in webos with the car yes these these things that people call gestures these manipulations on the screen are much more satisfying to people than then this cycle of you press your release and then you wait and see what happens right right it's tied much more into the way that the real world works right like our brains are wired for this I mean you see rocks we bang you can actually reveal around you can actually reveal information as your I mean one of the things I noticed that you do it in the launcher is as you start to swipe over to the next screen in the launcher you start to see the information coming in from that's right you know you can say hey you know what I'm halfway through this motion I don't want to go there exactly where is like pressing the button and having it loaded up is like you're locked into that it is true there's immediate feedback you feel much more in control because as you say if for whatever reason you realize that that's not what you want you can cancel it now you almost never do that right but it doesn't matter it still gives you a greater sense of control so you mentioned that you use the native twitter app are you going to go to Twitter and say here's what ice cream sandwich looks like here's the way it works these right now twitter is basically they have an iOS version of an android version of a web version they're all kind of the same but ICS has has design and functionality peridots that's a great question the the this style guide is exactly for that it's for people like Twitter to show them like these are the basics of making an ice cream sandwich app really as good an Ice Cream Sandwich app as it can be right now that doesn't mean that we don't want applications to have their own strong brand in their own strong design conventions in fact we want them to write the I think it's actually a real problem if an applications brand is so closely tied to one platform that that it looks like that one platform set of buttons or widgets on every other platform except that means you're not doing a service to your own brand right right you're tying your brand is somebody else's right right you're you're getting majin eyes on the web right you'd never see that right you wouldn't see like hey here's a the verge with buttons that we actually took these buttons from you know chrome right no like on the web well but you better realize your own but you do want a certain you do want some navigational I mean this is the whole point because you want to balance that I mean you want Twitter to be Twitter but I think it would be your priming to be your preference they utilize some of the motifs of ice cream sandwich like like the panel swipe in or the what-do-you-call-it viewpager yeah the viewpager second heroin it is that just call it panel / yeah panel swipe is wiping uh Waco but again the trick is is is um what are the elements that are natural and native to the platform like there's there's two parts to this there's the you know this is the toolkit that this platform utilizes you can pick and choose from it but you should be aware of all the things that are on this menu right right and and that's one of the functions of style guide and you're making this all might not know about the view page and capability or how to use it or when to use it right the other part of it is like these are some of the convention that make this platform feel cohesive right these are the metrics these are the sizes these are the corner radii these are the conventions for how icons use right you don't have to follow them but if you don't your application is going to stand out it's not going to look like it's not going to be branded necessarily if it's standing out because it's branding towards your property if it's branded towards the verge right then that's that's an okay kind of standing out right but if it's standing out because you just you know copied those elements from some other platform you know that's not doing you any favors wait aren't witter the place where you'll want to target getting some of this feel in there yeah absolutely all third parties we'd want to we want them to take a look at this you might have to have to work extra hard your relationship with Twitter right now I think yes a little sensitivity there so I have a couple of other questions you're actually getting a bunch of questions and I'd ok think I know the answer to this one our developer is going to be required to adhere to the style guidelines or they just suggestions the guidelines the guidelines you're not nor seen anybody to do it I mean this is this is the way it is for every platform right the human interface guidelines tend to be very high level guidelines and what happens and we've seen this on every platform is that the the value of them accrues as more people use them so really the market pressures will will make the app using a bargain that work the way people expect yeah the ones that are more so you to rise to the top here's a question and I think this is an interesting one will you also provide working code snippets utility classes optimization tips and such because you I inconsistencies des need a standard way to do common stuff like an endless adapter for getting data from web services so are you going to provide kind of packages we login play package right now Android design is almost entirely focused on explaining the design patterns and providing tools purely for the designers and it's linked with some examples back to the developer site but we're going to continue to build this out very closely with the developers site so that everything that we're talking about becomes as easy as possible for people to do we've actually done a lot of work already in the framework for ice cream sandwich to make it easier by default when you just instantiate a bunch of stuff to have it conform to these guidelines interesting I am I have a question here I think I know the answer to this one too but i'll ask any how is this something you think should have been should have been done early on an Android I mean had you been at the helm from version one would you have instituted this is this I guess maybe and maybe to extrapolate from the question that we got here is this something that is just a it you know sort of important to an operating system this is scale and needs to be there every never lat form needs to have this but you know I can't cast blame on a platform for not having up-to-date versions of this throughout the past I've been in the position where platforms I've worked on haven't had this when we launched either it's very very hard the Android team is extremely talented but also extremely small right and I know not just from working at Android but working at other companies you know what a child it was with small teams it's guy using a operating system from scratch and even though this is absolutely essential it's really hard to do it's really hard to find the time right I would have loved to have done this and the gingerbread timeframe I'd have loved to have done this in the honeycomb time frame it just couldn't happen to it and it didn't make sense to either because we'd have to revise so much of it for ice cream sandwich right so that we're here I'm really happy to do you're doing it you got Roboto you've got a style guide it's all of a sudden it's a different Android ok but so what does this mean for sense and TouchWiz and motoblur and all these skins I mean these so so you're telling developers and once I hey can somebody crack this door by the way it is just a billion degrees in here I mean I've died uh yeah I thought this was I might actually doing that the the interrogator is hot as hell we can I apologize for me it's very warm did any water anything tomorrow you have something yeah but I would love something cold bring some cold water sunny with ice in it I uh this is like it really is like I've interrogating you well this is an interesting comment Ruth mateus from last year where I believe you tried to freeze me today that is you know what I want I'm trying to just get exposed extreme see which one is more effective and getting answers out of you so what so what happens you're telling developers to do something very stringent I mean you're asking them to do something very strange you're saying we have design guidelines we've got a style guide here and yet just walk it over like and I'll take one of those to my you jerk uh how do you how do you how do you balance that because here you're going to have touch waves come along and throw out a bunch of Ice Cream Sandwich style there's actually two questions there first of all it's kind of a misconception to think that this is really something that's very stringent right for a designer that might be the impression you know for somebody who's who's not who's not a designer it might be an impression oh my gosh a guideline that's that's a constraint that sounds like something terrible actually all designers want this I mean designers more than anybody else have been clamoring to understand what our conventions what is our style guide what are metrics what's the grid right how should I design an icon how do I make it consistent right people want this yeah no I mean we got our style guide our developers were saying you know they add they wanted more information they said what about this what are these grid yeah clearly I need that guy I mean I actually feel bad about the version that we're publishing today it doesn't have enough detail it doesn't have enough examples right so we're going to be continually adding to that right so um it's not it's not actually there's no there's no tension between providing constraint and and liberating people to customize stuff right and that's actually the answer for OEMs who want to customize stuff right so this is a great resource for third parties who want to build stuff that's consistent with the system this is also tool now that OEMs can understand exactly how ice cream sandwiches put together right so that when they do expansions to it when they do customizations when they are porting whatever layer of modification they want to it it can be coherent and consistent with the system as much as they want it to be right right it's not going to feel like there's a part of it that was customized and a part of it that wasn't customized they now should have the tools to make their customizations really seamless without having to do everything right it should should be a boon to them so just so I'm understanding what you're saying completely this style guide is not just for app developers but it also applies to the partners you work with who make who do skinning or what did you call them expansions mm-hmm customizations you're saying this will give you a guideline to on how to do that so that it actually works with what we wanted to do with ice cream sandwich yeah for example like we talked about the metrics of things the sizes of buttons the height of the action bar how the action bar should work and yeah and so that applies for whether an oem for example is customizing the launcher and wants to use the action bar patterns in the launcher wants to use icon grids that that are consistent with the icon grits everywhere else right or if they're trying to create a custom skin for it if you will that make all the buttons look different like a different material or have a different character when they do that they can see that they're going to conform to the metrics of the other Ice Cream Sandwich elements they can understand exactly what the corner radii or lack of radii are so that they can make those decisions right you know do I want to do I want to modify that how much do I want to modify that so that it's consistent with everything else have you shown this to any of the partners a gauge TC or Samsung and said no we're announcing it we're releasing everybody's gay so right now there are guys from Samsung going oh crap yeah we got every we gotta rethink our ICS skin that we've been working hopefully hopefully now there's a bunch of guys from Samsung better saying oh finally now I understand why the heck they did this yeah well I hope that's the case um here's another question from from the viewers how does it affect backwards compatibility for applications while the tools and guidelines work properly on old versions of Android I'm guessing this is a I don't answer for you but I might get you tell me well the style guide is for ice cream sandwich unfortunately we don't have a style guide for each previous version of it we do have a section that gives advice on how you can adapt our best thinking patterns to previous versions of Android right which patterns we think are appropriate in which stylistic choices we think are appropriate that you should start using regardless of which version of Android you want to run on and which things you want to be aware of might really only work inside ice cream sandwich right so so in terms of tablets and phones with moving into ice cream sandwich territory for for app developers and this is a question here uh how are you handling different sized screens are you and we've seen a lot of apps that kind of just scale up to a larger screen and just show you basically more empty space what do you advocate for that mean what is that what is this so that's exactly one of the reasons why I have the style guide now now we have a section that talks about adapting to different sized screens and what are some of the common patterns that you can utilize when you detect that you're a larger screen right so in honeycomb we actually did a lot of exploration we came up with a large number of different multi-panel or multi-pane layouts but we didn't explain to anybody why we did them how we chose them what cases they would be appropriate what cases they wouldn't be appropriate we didn't give guidance as to what heuristics you should use to determine when your app should stop using a phone type you I to one of these multi-panel type you eyes now we have sections in the guide that start to explain that and again we're going to flush them out which I that's gonna that's gonna help you ease the transition between i think if i make it a nap and i want it to be you know beyond in both places this style guide is going to be the idea is that we've done a lot of this work and so we want to share the work that we've done so that other people can benefit from it right doesn't mean that people have to make the same decisions that we did that they can at least understand the decisions that we did and don't have to repeat the same work that way it so somebody and i know you have to get going in a little bit so we'll do a couple more questions then wrap it up but it i'd also know that you're gonna melt if you stay in here and you're cold right now right are you saying i actually i think this completely drying you out sauna type environment i think is very good for the we try to you know we try to present like a you know a healing thing here uh so somebody actually said it and I'm gonna I'm gonna jump off of their question a little bit but they said when do you think the design quality vote android apps will reach parity with iOS but I want to go a little bit further and say I don't think that that Android apps I think that that there are some great Android apps but I think across the board if you look at percentages of really high quality smooth beautiful apps that do a lot I think that there are some some holes in Android and some places where iOS is just kicking your ass frankly i know i mean really i mean it i hate to say because i love i love you too bye I like iOS I like what you guys do I mean I'm a fan of both things but when I see an app like garageband which is an al Apple developed app incredibly powerful I haven't seen anything that even couldn't even come close on any of your devices when are you going to get there when are you going to say like we can go toe to toe on something as complex and as beautiful and as functional as GarageBand cuz to me that's the high water market for an iOS app personally can you do it will you do it is it this generation and well so I can't predict the future I don't know what apps are out there but I do know that in order to do it this type of guidance is absolutely essential right right I believe that we're going to continue to push the platform and an Ice Cream Sandwich we've pushed the platform a long way to enabling these types of experiences and the style guide goes a long way to letting developers know how to create these kinds of experiences right one of the things i hope the style guide does is expand the conversation beyond just the people who normally pay attention to android but to all those other you know brilliant designers out there who would like to create beautiful apps but have maybe been turned off by the fact that android didn't have this kind of guidance give them a framework didn't give them context that they can understand you sure you think you'll be able to bring some of these many people have been standoffish about maybe coming over porting something from iOS to Android to say look we're taking this seriously we've got design guidelines this is a framework you can fit your app in to have a look at it absolutely I'm are you gonna ding people who don't follow these guidelines I mean are you get are usually I'm gonna take me a you just ding their car no but are you are you gonna are you going to pull people aside I mean can you do that I know you guys are all about being open but you know the store you kind of put whatever you want in there and into the android market but will you or even give users a way to say hey this app doesn't fall in the guidelines and it make it it's making it harder to use well comments we already provided but are you guys are you guys scouting the comments but reviews also provide I'm sorry not reviewed the ratings also provide a mechanism for that and we hope that the community will become more sensitive to the patterns will understand the guidelines will help us do that kind of thing I would like to see more positive incentives right so that we could we could you know extend a hand of friendship to developers who wanted you know personal attention right in understanding the guidelines understanding how they could take better advantage of them what is what is positive encouragement they're like what would you well you know we could we could we could I don't know I haven't even thought of it but there could be there could be making this operation I am completely winging this he announced here pause course coming positive curvature developers on how to make their apps better but I mean you know we could we could do you know if we work with with people we could endorse them in various different ways we could promote them in blog post we could promote them in the market right I see there's lots of potential positive mechanisms which I'm a lot more excited about the negative mechanisms we don't have any concrete plans for any of those things which is why I sound so vague and I graspable about it right no I get that but but I'm just curious me you know Apple police's its store it says we'll let this in we won't let this in and I think that it has its pluses and its minuses but you you but Apple and and and other storm makers also one of the other things they do which i think is much more impactful is that they also they promote the really outstanding citizen right any and you're saying something's really good will we want to put in the front page of the market yeah so that's the positive reinforcement but you're not going to be looking at people's apps and saying hey we noticed me do you guys do this hey we notice you're not using the guidelines and we think the app will be improved I mean is that something that you may consider doing we we don't want to get involved into that kind of regulation of it would be somewhat helpful though I'm not even saying like you can't have it in here i think as it what any what I you what I'd be delighted to do is offer some kind of workshops or office hours or some kind of model like that where developers who want feedback or critique we'd be happy to give it to the right I mean I think you I thought I wouldn't I wouldn't want to do that as part of a punitive measure inside the market I don't think that would be fair to them what the market is supposed to be right now I agree to more questions and i'll let you go so you have a trip back to hotel my this is my questions very personal but you've got this limitation where if i download a game and it's a big game 600 megs or something I get a little file that I download it's you know a couple Meg's and then it says I open the app and there's an there's another screen that says you download this big file and it's a totally siloed you know company specific way of getting that file sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't what's going on like when I download a game from the app from the App Store on my iPhone it just downloads the game and when it's finished I play the game with you guys I download the game it asked me to download another file it sometimes a works or doesn't I just got a game it took me six tries to download the rest of the file it's terrible well this is it was a I think it was a gameloft item is a major developer it was knows the new Nova Nova to HD or something what are you doing about that is are you gonna get rid of this limitation we're going so I have to look like a fool because I actually don't know the specifics of that right I you know what I'm talking about i actually don't I'm there's there's a lot of stuff that we work on so I this is a topic I'm what is it tangentially familiar with but I don't know actually what we're doing what we've announced that we're doing I don't know what the actual state of play of things is right now so I can't really comment right um but what I can say is all of these kinds of annoyances all of these you know pain points in the market are things that we take really really seriously they're part of the growing pains of the market oh you changed the market a lot in the last few months like the last six months yeah has been a sea change for the way you guys are are managed and and that's not slowing down we recognize that that there's still quite a lot we have to do to really kind of fulfill the promise of what market is as a one-stop destination for all of your media and entertainment right and so we're going to keep doing that well well has has the have the redesigns and implementing some of this ICS feel into your into the market has a change sales is a change the way people are getting apps and using apps I mean have you seen any can you talk about actually don't know and if I did I probably couldn't talk about it right that's great okay but but I do know that that Android Market numbers and downloads are just rising continuously it's like one of those cheesy hockey stick graph things that you know that it keeps growing growing I but you I don't know you can get the numbers from our salon it's alex at a hockey stick it's just shoot it up it is it's ridiculous it's not a hot upside down hockey stand it's a right side of icing a final question somebody wanted to know what the design guidelines of your shirt were an American and I'm actually curious to you always have some pretty intense outfits I mean you're kind of a stylish dude uh what is going on with your shirt it's actually I don't know if you guys can see this on camera but it's like it almost looks like it's a machine generated art is this like it's just random shirt you found somewhere is there a story behind it there's no story behind you be asking it's just a shirt that I thought was beautiful and I I like it actually looks like a fractal in some way like a weird yeah it has it what I like about it is it's got this very geometric detailed pattern if you if you actually get up close to it yeah but from a distance it's just this kind of cloudy winter I'm guessing that's what they can see on camera yeah I don't think they actually rivals in squares and circles in here and it's it's quite beautiful hey I Matthias thank you so much that's my pleasure oh we're in the announcer with them and I think I'm gonna want to talk to you more in the near future my pleasure always and thanks to the people at asking questions I'm sorry we couldn't get to all of them but yes thank you everybody please head over to Android design and give us feedback and go make awesome stuff yeah please make beautiful applications I ice cream sandwich deserves it yes in my opinion alright thanks