Gadgetory

keep going don't breathe just keep going just keep it going as loud as possible it's fine you don't have to stop there's no need to stop no need to stop clapping why did you stop clapping hi welcome to on the verge I'm Josh Topolsky editor-in-chief of the verge and we're very happy to have you guys here very excited for you to be here you guys don't know that my parents are in the audience tonight they're right over there give him a round of applause they they they literally made me out of nothing I think it's impressive they didn't really work that hard though did they so really happy to be here you guys may know that this is our last show of the season which is exciting but I'm happy to be here because i recently had heart surgery and i'm alive it was minor heart surgery though they didn't actually open my chest they did shave my chest i'll be talking about this later in graphic sexy detail but if I collapse or something just call 911 and tell them that I've recently had heart surgery that won't actually happen you know I saw that wasn't going to do the 911 joke and I did it anyhow why what's wrong with me anyhow we have a big show we have a big exciting show John undercuffler from oblong industries is here we're going to talk about crazy yeah we're going to talk about crazy minority report style computer we're actually going to talk about minority report a lot which I know you guys want to hear about and that's exciting we also have a video we went to oblong Ross Miller took a trip out there which is cool dieter bohn one of our West Coast editors he's also a human but he's in editor mainly he interviewed the CEO of research in motion torsten Heinz so he's kind of like talking about their new devices which I know you guys are all going out to buy like ASAP so like you're nervous laughter like how do I tell them I'm not doing that and uh no you might you never know come on give it a chance and of course Paul and I are here they have all kinds of funky shenanigans to talk about I think they're actually called value shenanigans that's their new Act and i want to say our sponsor tonight is for word they've been an awesome sponsor this is our last show of the year they're kind of taking us home and we actually have a video that Paul is in he's driving around a Ford car later which is kind of fun and funny and weird and uncomfortable but only because of Paul not because forth so why am I wasting your time I think we should just start things so let's get the show underway it's good you're supposed to clap until the music ends and very disappointed in all of you especially by parents so we have a lot of news talk about we have a lot of stuff happening tonight we've got it and this shows actually it's gonna be a lot of fun and it's not fun it was free so you can't really argue with that I've used that joke a lot it still works i'm happy we should get underway so please welcome Paul Miller in nilay patel Esquire yes yes I guess right over get in here let me just read you over into this am going yeah really good this right there right that's your seat right there okay great good great great job walking out hey I like I mean when it comes to people who can walk out yeah you guys are the best in the industry well you know we've been practicing cuz we're about to take our show funky shenanigans on a road yeah funky shenanigans is touring the us all through the winter yeah and into the spring sorry I would do a lot of walking on and off the stage during the show that's actually our main funky shenanigan yeah walkie-talkie down it's a highlight of shows really short it's like a walkout wave and walk back anyhow enough of these shenanigans so we have a lot of a lot of news has happened recently yeah you guys may not may or may not know this but we run a website called the verge calm we do it's online actually before we get into news let me talk about my heart thing I think it's cool and we're doing with this before and I was like you know when I was actually going in for the surgery I was thinking like we should do a feature on this which is a sick problem that I have they're like starting to cut me over and I'm like this would be great if we shot a video but but so I have I had this thing they say they got it though I don't actually believe them like the doctors tell me they fixed it but I had this heart defect called super ventricular tachycardia and what happens is the nerve in your heart that gets this electrical signal to beat it has like an extra note on it and the electrical signal gets caught in a feedback loop which is a cool like tech problems what happen I it's like a DDoS on your heart and redox and your heart so it's like freaking out it's really comfortable and you feel like you're going to you call an ambulance so what they do is they put these catheters in like your groin groin Illaria your crotchal area and they like snake them up into your heart and they burn out the offending node with radio frequencies yeah as I just and they shave your chest just cuz they want they shady we do shave your chest because if they screw it up or something goes wrong they have to give you a pacemaker which is like my biggest fear yeah like being an 80 year old guy at my age like I have a pacemaker but they have to shave your chest just in case I got to go in they didn't go in but man my chest is really you cut through the water in case divis yes now have a great swimmer anyhow um so so it's actually kind of a cool like as far as problems with your heart go yeah it's sort of and a half it's that a cool tech problem to have like I got a weird feedback with your overclocked I'm overclocked yeah yeah that's right anyhow but I'm but I'm I'm good man I'm excited about it and are you ready are ready to love yeah I'm ready to love again let's go function it at almost full capacity oh um oh thank you look at it just wanted to see whether they love you in the middle of a conversation you like managed you see that game less I love you what I don't want that now anyhow but we do have a big a big list of things to talk about it last week I don't know if you guys saw this on the side we did this war for TV series and we talked about how like the the ecosystem battle is coming to the living room and everybody wants to get in on the television every trying to do smart tvs or buddies trying to do like their second screen experience and and neil i wrote a bunch of stuff everybody did we did interviews and we're actually tomorrow i think we're gonna have a big roundup post of all the stuff she's check it out but this is the next frontier I feel like mobile is kind of starting to level out tablets are starting to level out a little bit tvs that stuff is changing yeah and and and who's going to win this like who's going to win is it verizon is it apple paul i'm gonna put this to you yeah google is it is it amazon what objects obviously necessary because everything sucks right now and i think everything is the worst everything is the worst and and I think the model the aisle I the best is netflix i just don't think netflix as a company is very smart so i think it's probably like Amazon or Apple taking maybe Netflix's model and doing it well I just feel like how does netflix compete with like a monolith like Zach amazon or get absorbs yeah as they get absorbed that's how they compete well yeah it's not really you know merge I don't you ever read the definition of competition but but when you're absorbed by the thing you're competing against it's usually like a bad thing have you seen the blog postings if you like please i hate the blog it just absorbed me you'd be like he's getting on his private jet he's like that was a great competition like i would play hard yeah but so who do you thinks gonna win you're not really interesting we've been talking people throughout the industry and it's everybody knows that everything sucks mm-hmm and it's weird because everybody so you know the smartphone kind of looks like now but it's a screen and you know what PCs are starting to look like tablets and there's going to be that's going to shake itself out but we have an idea how that markets going to go nobody knows how to get from from where we are now to what we want television tonight and it's just like terrible rock I'm sure rain do we want television I feel like television doesn't need to change that much I think it one major thing needs to happen right you need to put TV and all these other boxes no wrong what's that I just need to be able to watch whatever I want to watch what I want to watch it and like the next season of Downton Abbey should be finished already and I should be able to watch that right now like that all the seasons of every should like six feet under was six seasons you shoulda just done this in one shot yeah and then i go to call a cart watch that we should i want it TV shows me 13 our movies that you can watch does you what I mean that's like that's what they are flicks model yeah what that looks absolutely right but everybody knows that's where you want to go and I think it's if you look at what happened in music it took steve jobs like controlling five huge companies to like participate they offset no market they hazard be brought to their knees by theft and that's what's happening to me nobody is it like it's an order to steal like a gig now show if you're a college student you're on coffee near a college student but they don't have you noticed because she's don't run the world hey so the the CEO time see the metrics as if oh damn what a table Beyonce song who runs the world it's girls yeah girl college students no but they're real cooz really say somebody got a good song it's like it's like a C+ be but it's true this women a plus furry buddy there in charge are they not guys yeah well no it's a you know the problem is not us cutting the cord its people never buying cable and that's like a real problem with Ari Emanuel doesn't that gets a problem mmm people are by Canada well who your ass cable it's everybody it's every quarter of our audit everybody here has cable by what all doesn't have cable you know what's great about cable there's these two music channels that are in SD and they're so bad yeah they're in fused by the way it's like a music channel that doesn't show me canada it shows like it shows like 15 seconds of a song it's like you got the idea yeah I understand that it is like literally got top 40 countdown like okay cool and it's an hour long and everything is 15 tacit and it's like here's a little bit of the part before Sir Horace search for this on you don't you know what this is gonna do right moving on here's the new Christina Aguilera song yeah anyhow so we don't actually know the winner we don't know who's gonna be the way we don't it's gonna take a giant of the industry to like make some real changes verizon yeah comcast it's gonna be we're gonna end up with the same people yeah all right anyhow uh so another news as we really ended that like don't holler it was just it's rough yes well you're not consumers not to get consumer losses no matter who wins we well you know who's gonna say aliens vs predator yeah yeah I have I mentioned a predator as I mentioned the predator on every show this year I think I have so the other thing that just happened other piece of news that just happen is the wii u launched yeah if you oh cuz nintendo comes out with a new console all the time yeah we're cool if you follow me on twitter the social network yeah the real-time social media network you'll know that i was up till five in the morning last night playing zombie you have you guys seen zombie you do you know what it is does anybody know what the wii u is here in this audience Kathy plays that's wonderful tepid applause and I really enjoyed that zombiu i turn the lights out and had this happened and I was playing it late and it scared that it scared the out of me I mean I actually jumped dad looks very serif I is very upset my father by the way like reads the comments it is like they're right you talk over people you know like you guys think you're like you the commenters are trollish they have nothing on my parents there's like the meanest people but they're all so wonderful that's a thought this is not anyway it's not going anyhow but yes my father could just go my father's very upset about my profanity but it is scary yeah and I think it's kind of amazing i thought that we use like in whatever and then i read the polygons review of zombie you and I was like I gotta get one right now luckily Sam sheffer who runs our social stuff was like oh y'all have a couple extra systems just laying around free off of fell off the back of a truck yeah yeah or whatever um Paul you gotta wii u yeah i bought it off Sam too did you really yeah if you like it well I haven't opened up the box yet Wow everybody the office wit equated Christmas morning that everybody was like there's a mandatory a verb like patch like when you open turn on the right is it downloads away from the internet so I don't know what's gonna happen I'd you your hip six months for dad you'll be able to play the wii u it's really really gonna have it just around it's good it looks cool yeah well as long as that is enough for you hobby you use the yeah so what's cool I don't you guys understand the Wii U has a like a tablet controller and a console and so again zombie you when you're doing things on the screen on your TV screen you get a map on your on your tablet controller and and if you want to get into your backpack to get stuff out like a like a board to hit the zombies with or a carbine rifle to shoot them in the face with or and gun or like a mole talk tail all things that I've used on da music video but but you like you go into the backpack on the screen and the person on the screen like is unprotected like going through their back you see is I feel like get into your backpack and pull something out it is terrifying know like so here's what's really weird zombiu and then we should move on but what's really weird about zombie you is that you only play as one character and then you die and you start over in that character that you played as is dead in the game and is now a zombie so like there's periods in the game where you're you get something you're like should I stash this somewhere and leave it because I know I'm gonna die and then like when my new person is like born into this world I can go get the thing off of them like I've actually killed myself in the game to get a gun from them which is really weird like it's just a really weird way to think about so I have never seen you so sincerely passionate about something well I accepted like maybe day one of the verge but downhill after you order kind of excited about the launch of our site but um it's just look I haven't been scared by a zombie game since like the original original resident evil you do remember the original resident evil when there's always a birth through the window yeah well have scary I just love to be scared buzz on I'm very bug just go get one I'm not by the way I'm not hiding for today to Sam's back I thought I wouldn't like this thing and I'm like surprised that I like it alright moving on I'm not surprised moving on Steven Sinofsky have you heard of him he's a zombie he's a character it is off you he attacks you he's like check out this easy-to-use touch interface Steven Sinofsky is since Tina Sadowski was at Microsoft he ran windows he recently resigned there's been a lot of oil in turmoil yeah well we don't know what his State was you know what's going on with him but we we it seemed a little weird and and and Scott Forstall recently resigned from Apple who was like you know was running iOS he's the guy who made iOS what it is the last few years so you've got these big software guys who've recently resigned with big big products they just put out and we think it's kind of you think it's kind of a trend I think it's it's it's the end of jerks the end of jerks the end of jerks what Nilay Patel has dubbed it yeah I think I think people don't want to work for jerks and I think that's like a problem at these big companies where they they these leaders who are perceived as not nice people hmm interesting yeah i'll change my management style but you went out Neal I went out onto the street yep and it costed regular humans to talk about jerk jerk bosses yeah what I want to work for jerks are pushovers yeah so take a look at this video we will be right back it's highly entertaining past couple weeks to very high profile jerks have been fired Scott four stalls out at Apple Steven stops he's out at Microsoft the thing is you kind of need a jerk if you're going to make something in this world you need a leader you need somebody vision somebody's going to get angry when they don't get what they want so we're out here in New York City to ask people what kind of boss they want to work for a jerk or pushover since you're either work for a jerk or a pushover ah pajama I think I'd rather work for the jerk yeah I would rather work for the jerk so as you're either work for a jerk or for a pushover push over push over why I'd rather work with each other because you can push a warmer yeah well anything a better Boston forever in Siberia because then I have a little bit more control in the situation I don't have to deal with negative residue what is negative restaurant where you just have to confront someone it's a real thing little negative residue what I mean I have a number of residue related questions asked you yeah let it go would you rather work for Joe perpetrators um shuffled over oh I guess I'd rather work for a pushover would you rather work for a jerk or a pushover it sir I'd rather work for a jerk jerk yeah what's the challenge would you rather work for a jerk i push up push over the jerk I don't want to be sexist but if they don't like you they can make your life miserable that's why are that be sexist female you're not gonna get a job uh where's boss I've ever have is probably working for like can't say the name I'm not gonna name names or anything the worst boss I've ever had Ray Brown shame and Bray Brown you are a jerk if you had a characterize yourself as a boss which one of you push off yeah I'm push our more than a jerky your friends laughing at you man we're just doing some interviews about I like the workplace and like the coyote it's so good hey I'm dumb we broke Oh baby I'm sorry I'm well Kitty cake yeah me too fans leave have to work this hard this is just like the worst like it's like friday afternoon everyone's going home it's super cold and I have to be out here doing my little song and dance my jerk boss this is great I wonder if Josh knows I'm here so what have we learned today we're going to although it's no fun most people know they need to work for a shirt they need somebody with vision leadership somebody's going to get the job done get the project off the ground but just as inevitably the jerks get replaced there's somebody younger somebody more handsome somebody who's frankly more well-liked so here's to you Steven Sinofsky here's to you Scott Forstall and here see you Josh the balls today suggests to me knee levers what I think Neil I was trying to say yes what was he trying to say do you really want to do you really want a hitch your wagon to this train how are you doing wagons I think yeah to this horse I've never heard of it the servant leader wow you really killed everybody without as it that is a vibe killers yep there that's not a jerk but not a push up anyhow uh so it stupid what do you leave your mutiny Paul I would I don't like I don't like I don't like the sounds of anything you're talking about and so I'm just going to segue out of whatever that is into the next thing as if nothing happened and then we'll fix this in post and you guys won't tell anybody so you know here's the thing we were thinking about Stephenson oskins not forestall both geniuses in their own right you know maybe not well liked most geniuses aren't because they're so smart and handsome and talented but we thought maybe this whole thing is a ruse you know they both quit right around the same time which seemed weird and we started you know thinking maybe these guys are going to start something new together yeah maybe they're going to start their own new company to compete with windows and an apple Kenny with Microsoft and Apple and so we got some we did some digging and we we got some some pictures what we believe is yeah photos of their new operating systems they're working on together to compete with the big guys shocking and and we're going to show do for the first time ever you're the first people see them so so quickly before we get into that I want to show you this is steven sinofsky is work this is the windows 8 home screen you can see here it's you know very stark it's very iconic you've got these you know big bold text big bullet icons and you know easy to navigate for most people if you have a touch screen and then we have a photo of scott forestalls work that's a little bit different you know but you get the stitch either kind of controversial yeah but you know OS 10 and iOS largely considered to be some of the most usable operating system but you know what this is you know what this is your carrier I've ripped off a page i'm in november you know this is you have a leather calendar i love the guy but stack of leather calendars so we found some we found some pictures of what we believe is that their their their project oh here's I books yeah this is your the page turn you know it's skeuomorphism but at its best yeah I think so here's what we've uncovered and we're pretty excited to show you guys this is what we believe is the the new home screen of the operating system that very odd Morris tall and Steven Sinofsky are working on now you can see there the influences of both of them here you've got this great tiled you've got all your apps right there you know there's mail calendar and the nice thing about this is unlike windows 8 you know what they are just by looking at that that's a calendar yeah okay there's a notebook everybody knows what I have faded out speaker means of course I mean that's that's audio probably never really tell a couple of jerks maybe I look at it look at the on/off switch here like you're not gonna wonder how do I turn this thing off yeah you click the on off switch like you would on the back of a 386 yeah and you know you internet obviously it's like sitting down at your beautiful linen desk yeah this is what work is like in the real world mixed with the functionality and the fluidity of Windows 8 yeah I think it's quite brilliant let's take another we have another look here at the another app here's the browser and I think when you think about where am i working where am I looking at my content it's on a table maybe you've got a notepad where you're making notes yeah the tables made of a nice now this to me is recycled which is guessing a faded birch table blending its blending the best of both worlds yeah really and I think we have one more shot they're also doing mobile stuff do we have the mobile I know we skype oh here's their version of skype which by the way i think is an improvement on the skype interface actually you know I fish you know what you're getting you know you want to make a call just just click on the rotary phone down there you know you need to mute your mic just click on this generation thinks of video they think of giant they think of a you know you got puts on uhf to tune in Sinofsky is calling let me put it on to the UHF channel and then finally we have the mobile version which they took a little bit of a different direction started I think here you can see more of the the windows 8 influence on on what they were doing with iOS I like the folders especially the folders are great it's like you to know what's in those yeah just just open them up that's what you do with the real folder right anyhow there's the real pictures from the new project that Scott Forstall and steve is an Oscar working on and we're glad we could share them with you guys um yeah you know we had we had people working tens of minutes on so they really are gonna when they hear that applause it really lap it up anyhow so we have we've into the video for you Ross Miller went to oblong industries and these are the guys who invented the Minority Report computer they did the computers for iron man and they basically are pushing computing forward in a big big weird crazy way Russ took a trip there and we're going to take a look at that when we come back we'll have John undercuffler here who is there who is one of the big guys are one of the main Peter scientists chief scientist leading this thing so take a look this will be right back I think that cinema is one of the great art forms and one of the great languages of obviously the 20th century and it's still serving as well here in the 21st century I think it's actually important to study cinema for anyone who's building you is anyone who's building anything anyone who's interested in communication it's been 10 years since the film minority report came out it is still the hallmark of the future of interface these people at oblong industries in Los Angeles they are the minds behind it they may the interface and they're building it and making your reality let's check out what they're doing as much as oblong is about products and technology it's about ideas and it's important to be expressing those in every form that it's possible to think of my name is John undercuffler I am co-founder and chief scientist of oblong when I first saw John's work it completely blew my mind and changed my view of what what you could do with a computer and take the user interface and put it all over the room and you know make make the the interactive experience sort of part of people's real world not part of people's you know beige box is starting in the kind of early 90s so barely a decade into modern UI based compute computing it seemed foolishly and naively to me that it was time for the next one right why why aren't we building the next you I ten years seems like long enough and it seemed important to me that the the UI was the focus of attention right because the UI at the end of the day is all we have do you speak as minority report made flesh this is a kind of typical installation of the sort that we've been providing to our early-adopter customers like bowling in GE for for many many years now and it's a kind of development system inside which you can solve problems that you can solve any other way gee speak the platform is fundamentally input and output agnostic but in this case we're using motion capture of sensors that are specifically configured to look for these little tags each tag has a unique constellation of retro reflective dots it's basically 3m scotchlite material and allows the system to recover the identity and the three-dimensional position and orientation of each finger it was an early revelation that the combination of incredibly detailed position and orientation information with harshly quantized posed information makes a really really robust system that's what makes it so that it's User independent anyone can put on these gloves and immediately be using the system we don't have to train it user nobody has here and going in and out yes there we go yeah we went from commandline computing to graphical computing and that was a big wholesale shift in and how you think about what it is to use a computer we are making that same shift happen for today from just graphical computing on one screen to computing that is multi-user multi-screen and multi-device so this is mezzanine this is a conference room collaboration product that we make air it oblong so what you're looking at is a shared workspace where we've got a collection of sequence content which is a slideshow that's what you're seeing in the the middle of the screen here a collection of assets that can be manipulated and added to the slideshow like this one where we've manufactured a set of three sided wand input devices which are used spatially to control our special operating environment so you use these things as handheld products to drag something in space from one screen to another or to manipulate an interface on one screen there's two ways to build out new technologies you can build kind of top down the most capable possible version of the technology and starts out expensive or you can build bottom up with inexpensive consumer class devices they're probably not that capable but get better and better every year we made a decision early on with oblong that we would build further for a while at least we would build top down so we would build the most capable systems we could imagine and we would rely on moore's law and good engineering to sort of push those prices down year-over-year what we what we knew we would see is the cost curve and the capability curves intersecting I think we're right on the edge of that point and you can see that that intersection between the cost and the capability curves our goal now is to kind of push through that barrier and get our version are fully capable version of these spatial gestural multi user interface to everybody so this is sismo and it's an earthquake visualization in sandbox there is no gloves involving this one right so this is USGS data and it's about 120,000 data points so as you're noticing you can you can sit here and just grab and interact with the data and there's a couple different ways that that we can interact with it so one is to just kind of grab it if we flip around we can set it back to kind of an equi rectangular normal world map do usually what was that I'm actually white so it's okay a reverse L yeah okay and I can just hold my fist and kind of move around correct alright this come forward this is going back the operating environment thinks of roll pixels so you can put screens in your environment and basically use them as windows into a 3d virtual space as opposed to just kind of a continuation of a 2d space it's been interesting for us to watch the evolution of interfaces around tablets and phones because there's been a lot of interesting work from Microsoft and Apple and and the Android vendors for us what all that works so far is missing is the idea that it's an anachronism to look at one screen at a time and view that as your computing experience the next version of all of our computing experience is going to be multi screen and multi-device we have all these powerful screens and all these pixels all around us all the time we need to use them more effectively so in the next year or so I think we're going to see a huge kind of efflorescence of gestural and spatial input and more and more understanding among lots of different folks building computing experiences that multi-screen is really interesting oblong is dedicated to the idea that technology alone is no longer enough technology and design have to be conjoined have to be inseparable and have to be part of the same development process otherwise we're not going to get anywhere valuable at all yeah very very cool very weird stuff so please welcome the chief scientist for oblong John undercuffler oh you're coming off from over there I was like doctors opposed ya know why I don't know why you'd be coming out from the other side originally was going to be there now is that the important thing is you made it over this barrier that we've I don't know I was hoping the interview right state are you gonna get time I've are you getting fully nude here should I be do you want me to get fully nude right well I've lid I mean it's a fun all righty right now I'm not doing that oh so close so close um thank you for coming my pleasure entirely I mean the stuff you guys are doing is fascinating Q and I want to know so everybody I mean Minority Report is the thing that everybody talks about in they talk about whether it's about you guys or just talking about the future of computing yeah I think Minority Report is the thing any people I was like oh someday we're gonna get that ball and we're going to be able to solve crimes before they happen and yeah okay that's not you but what what what came first like how did this happen like did did did Steven Spielberg come to you and say hey I want this kind of thing can you make it then you really hit that's a great idea we should make a computer like that or I don't want to tell the story for you you tell me how did it how did this all come about was which came first chicken chicken or egg which one is the chicken that's what I want to know which one is the chicken you tell me good so I mean it was in direct sense that Spielberg wanted to put a real a believable future of HMI of computation into this movie that was going to be said in a putative 2054 Washington DC and it just so happened that a lot of the stuff that I and other folks had been building at the MIT Media Lab in the in the mid to late 90s was what he was looking for so he'd sent an emissary the amazing production designer Alex McDowell to go on a kind of shopping spree and import technology directly into the film and what we were building at the Media Lab at the time seemed to be just the ticket says Bieber was like I need a cool computer yeah he said I don't want to see a mouse he was quite emphatic about it and they thank you for that Stephen right I mean that what what made him think he didn't want to see him out so he just think like obviously the mouse is going to be obsolete by the year twenty where's the 2054 yeah that was his premise and you know he wanted to know what was next I mean he's deeply interested in technology he was building this movie which incidentally he said is his film noir it's not a sci-fi film in his mind which is great so it's setting that well here maybe it slightly wrong because there's a lot of science fiction like straight up literally science admittedly and it's not much we can do about well except celebrated man's living in a fantasy world the idea was that you know it was a film or set only incidentally in 20 54 and he wanted it to be a completely believable 2054 extrapolated from you know new technology trends that we can all recognize today but discarding old old old stuff like the beige mouse right so so so you had had so how far along was whatever whatever they went shopping for and finally purchased how far along was it compared to well obviously it wasn't what you see in the movie but it wasn't exactly that we had fully working prototypes at MIT though oh you bet you beat Spielberg to this I mean this isn't like he can't be was like I was wish I could do this all the time will I get in trouble if I agree I I don't know what Spielberg's like is even bigger than I like helicopters now no really I oh yeah no we don't working red light on un and and so uh did the movie help advance what you were doing when you when you had the the opportunity to kind of visualize the stuff in it yeah okay I was itchin and in two ways so you know we built the stuff in the real world in an academic setting and it was real code in real systems and and real physical objects that worked preparing it for the film was an amazing exercise because it we had to render the stuff legible we had to simplify we had to make it absolutely smooth so that the audience could understand the kind of causal this is how it works right and that is you know exactly the same exercise you should undertake if you're preparing a technological product or any product so the best thing to do if you're trying to build something new is to have Steven Spielberg make a movie or what I mean just slip it into 100 million dollar film it's like what I could really use is a budget that's protist envisions thing yeah so you also you also did that the Iron Man computers yes and and there's a similar some similar stuff there yeah what's great is that Robert Downey jr. who's really that you know the driving force behind all that is incredibly smart and funny and profane guy as well hiki want to go handed they do if you're Robert that he wants to up the ante each time show a little bit something new and he wanted to up the ante from from minority report which is you know clearly a forebear for those kinds of science fiction interfaces right so okay so let me ask you there's a scene in Iron Man where aunt I remember which movie it is but the scene I remember he grabs something he like throws it in the trash he has to be like physically and then dumps it right like just like you would in the real world now in my experience what it's a lot easier just to just a drag a mouse a little bit and then put it in the trash and then it's done like you're done you might even have to use any muscles so what if you don't have them else but I'm saying well this is what i'm getting at like why in why in that situation or why in many situations where I'm computing like a folder for instance like it's real easy to put stuff in a photo take stuff out of a photo requires very little movement from me which I like because I'm extremely weak and and what we would a minority report interface or Iron Man interface improve upon things like that or will it or do you not even want to use it for stuff like that well no I think you do I think you want to use it for everything that those those films themselves aren't full prototypes in any sense and that's what makes it a real world product is when all of those motions all of those interactions have been refined and simplified and boiled down to their absolute essence and there's you know there's an extent to which it's a cinematic exercise and so you want Tom Cruise and Colin Farrell doing this all day long which has led to allegations that we've spent the better part of a decade trying to quash which is that it's tiring to use these interfaces and it probably is if you do it that way but the fact is that that we track hands to such incredible precision that when you use our systems they're they're very fine motions and it's actually kind of freeing compared to doing this which is a keyboard so so what is the impulse I mean just at the core like what is the impulse here that you want to what do you want to change and why like why does the Minority Report computer need to exist and i'm sorry if i'm calling it that and like I know you guys have no such things that are not Minority Report computer unless that's what you're working with which is fine like why why do I want to change why do I not want to eat them in keyboards very very efficient way to enter data right do I want to get rid of the keyboard do I want to get rid of the mouse I don't think you want to get rid of the keyboard but I do think you want to get rid of the mouse keyboard has to stay well how you gonna type a letter to Grandma can I just say it out loud you could you could how's the voice recognition stuff doing I know you're working on Chalmers eight percent is that enough you're not doing a voice recognition you know is that part of your system we do integrate with with that kind of stuff in it and its really really useful as a kind of ancillary data input but but back to your question I mean the we need to take that big step it's been 30 years and we're still stuck essentially with the same interface it's the Macintosh interface and and here we are nearly 30 years later we're hampered by it frankly it doesn't feel like it because there's a lot of you know shiny pixels flying around what we really are the machines are capable of all sorts of incredible feats we're still kind of grunting and squeaking and clicking as it were so so I wake up let's say your computer exists I don't have a I don't have a Mac anymore yeah I've got the oblong amor architect mr more you've got your room i got i wake up in my bedroom now i want to check my email what's the experience like in in a in an oblong world it probably depends what you have near you I mean I think part of part of what we're saying is that and this is really interesting we're at the beginning of a massive change that we're too close to to even understand as the change it's the transition from an obsession with devices like which device you have do you have the little ones you have the big ones you have the tablet you have the laptop to an era of pixels all that will matter is the pixels because the the central premise is that you should be able to use any pixels you see anywhere and point at them or pointed them with a phone or something else and by pointing at them get through them to your stuff your filly great job dodging the question how do i check my email how do you check your email how am I gonna check my email when I'm doing this stuff which pixels do you have near well I don't know I my walls a computer you okay yeah well you've got a my bed is my puter my duvet as a computer even and I fold it down that's a 300 thread count computer exactly it's extremely high resolution and also very soft on a nude body so okay so I don't know you tell me what would I would I wake up to I think you might well you know drag you pull a physical tablet off the bed stand or whatever so you I'm still doing this and Psyche its own right okay so you're not really now in your world no i mean i think i think our answer at all blowing to all of this is plurality these are a better way to check email look I basically I'm just try to get my inbox 20 so you need to tell me is there a better way no but I mean that you're going to be chained to this your inbox for the rest of us there is considering this but you can tell is there a better way in your opinion so for something as mundane is checking email which everybody does every day does this computer solve that or does this solve different problems I guess that's my real question I think it principally solves different problems it enables new kinds of interactions that we can't even really dream up yet right but you've dreamed some up that dream song give me one give you an interac me a new interaction that these computers will allow us to do yeah well what would it mean for let's say you know a bunch of smart grid management experts people with a real world problem to solve a hurricane comes in smashes the city there's electrical failures all over the place what would it mean for all of those people to use a single application at the same time bringing their expertise into the same room using a whole panoply of monitors and displays and portable devices and tablets and projected wall screens to fix a problem them to be in the problem to be in the problem yeah yeah okay that's that's a good example I you got me there I'll be honest with you I didn't think you would have anything have you been working on it for like it 20 years right I mean how long has it been how long you been working on this um better part of three decades I would have to say so so how do you feel about the connect I mean are you do you see the connectors as this is the future like I'm you know I kind of set the stage for this and now the kinect exists and that's the first step the cages yeah I mean just because it's it's a motion-controlled it's the first motion controlled thing that really has made any kind of impact in our lives yes that's true it but it's an input device and I say bring it bring it all bring the connects bring the leap bring everything oblongs operating system which we call G speak is designed specifically to take input from a heterogeneous bunch of devices like that depth sensing devices pointing devices spatial ones these old guys tablets phones all of it that's how you get work done you bring everything to the problem and that's what's going to be new the idea that work play communication isn't stuck in one of these devices that the stuff you're doing doesn't stop at the boundary of the device right there's not like the edges of the window it's like everything is the window yeah so how do we get how do we how do we get there and when do we get there I mean I went to Microsoft Research and oh I should actually have a Tom Cruise story I mean you obviously work with Tom Cruise on my order right so I met him I went to a taping of Late Night with Jimmy Fallon and he was there and we we act he's very nice and I started talking and he was like what's next thing cuz you know I'm a tech guy he's like what's next what's coming and I was talking about microsoft research because I just been there and I talking about all this gesture interface stuff and he's like oh you know we made a movie about that make very nonchalantly so you know we made a movie about that called Minority Report but you worked with him closely you know did he like how did he take to I mean here's a guy that's obviously not like a tech dude right um was it natural where do people respond to it actually yeah it was I mean he's incredibly professional and driven and and and and dedicated and you know it wasn't just him we also worked with neal mcdonough and in colin farrell because the early scenes that we'd shot with tom were starting to look so good that lets people are commissioned extra scenes to be written so that more people could use the technique you want people using the computer wanted people to use that computer but but what we did is we train the actors in every way we could because you know when you're shooting the stuff isn't actually on the screens the actors have to use their imagination but these actors actually were the first users of G speak the actual thing in as well in a virtual yeah Sokka we made dictionaries and and training videos and so forth and I spent days with all of them you know training them to use this during oh maybe their stuff that's right so when it came time to shoot they knew what they were doing that's interesting so now they could big a walk into your labs and just go for it ready to go have any of them come to your labs then you haven't yet I think it's probably time I think you should invite them yeah it's okay so when when when can i when when will this be a thing that I can use in my real life like when will a human being who is not Tom Cruise who's not just imagining it you could be either one of those things well Ross Miller's a human being right well not really um these parts of him he do it I'm saying like when will I be able to say in my life like every day day to day i'm using this thing like do you have a do you have an event horizon here I don't even know that's the right term I like it's great yeah I think so yeah if you're if you're working in a series of sort of fortune 500 disciplines and domains you may well be using it today so we've got a bunch of customers who use G speak who use our products which is using it companies like Boeing and saudi aramco so they're literally that there's a room somewhere at Boeing where yes guys are doing this stuff a bunch of rooms yeah really I gotta go to GE why am I doing this welcome to la come I would love to come to LA and I'm going to come to LA okay and I'm never gonna I'm gonna come to the lab in Neverland we can change you to the desk out there that's great i can finally deal with my inbox yeah III so be you don't have a date where it's like available to consumers like you don't have an idea when this will be over technology we're inching and stepping and then sort of traveling our way there bit by bit so earlier this year we launched a broad market product called mezzanine which brings those same capabilities to a kind of problem that everyone has which is meeting rooms and conference rooms and how do you take the stock out of meetings so that's something that yeah if you could figure out a way to do that it's a magic spray you should see it it's called you back yeah well thank you for the peak adpkd breathy oh well I try so the mezzanine is going to end up in hundreds and thousands and eventually tens of thousands of meeting rooms and those aren't fortune 500 type problems that's that's like every other that's like a verge problem it's a virgin we're like go when we hear like go they would get a gotomeeting dial and we get very depressed so like is this going to improve my go to mediate yes well it's very excited listen I wish we had more time to talk but unfortunately we have to wrap up unreal on ahead so much talk to you is there is there is there anything that we didn't get to that you want to get to you brother brought a computer in a giant and a note I brought a note is there any particular reason that you brought the stuff out well I want to talk about science fiction in movies also puffs and they get ways using the cuffs cuffs yeah my wife said you can you're pointing to your oh you're pointing to your leg we were wearing cuffs I can't want America to know I was up I do have my jeans cuffed that is true yeah do you want to just check her email really quick you know it's not the email you know you were you were talking about shaving earlier and I'm in big trouble today because today November 20th is oblongs pencil-thin mustache day what and I'm not participating yes by the way is this unplanned I don't know what's happening is there's a few of our designers and engineers though they have mustaches pencil-thin must include you know what appears to be a woman yeah hey that's unusual where there were their hormones involved in that mustache grow I think perhaps just so do are you gonna shave I will if you will uh you want me to shave my mustache to a pension because what could be weirder do you have a sense razor yeah well we can share is this actually happening right now sure I mean I got dry I just keep I keep the beautiful this okay you go first controller go on tell me if I can trust this man I'll wait go ahead shave what you want me to shave just out of the blue yes my mother just you've audibly said no by the way um look I'll tell you what let's meet in LA let's do have a camera crew and we're gonna have razors two of them ok I will I will hold you to that we will do pencil-thin mustaches in LA look I need to shaving cream and also I'm scared to death of having a pencil mustache so John thank you so much for coming really awesome really appreciate you sir and uh sticker that was weird and I didn't know that was coming I wish I didn't either but I dig around we've got a word from our sponsor featuring Paul Miller and we will be right back with torsen Hines interview I'm Paul Miller and I'm spending a year without using the internet so to stay in touch with people I've got a p.o box and they send me letters I send the letters back it's a Paul Miller to Paul Miller Paul Miller Paul Miller got key home Paul Miller what's got me thinking is this key i actually don't normally receive keys and I I don't think it's to another p.o box as it says Ford on it so oh would you look at that big-ass pores new fusion or the key works so what all great things about receiving mail is that people typically put their return address write on the envelope then you can drive to that address and you know it extend extend your friendship with that person one of my best awful I'm friends is the sky named Mike and he lives way up on the Upper East Side I am a downtown guy to put a track on my bike so you know now I've got this Ford Fusion i think i'm gonna pay me this call mike calling my gone south oh hey hey Mike yeah what up hey this is your pen pal Paul i'm outside of your house right now yar yeah yeah do we have the right place so we decided to go see a movie but a little snacks a little overpriced so we go we're gonna stock up now see the light bulb it's a huge happens like a little salad all right we're ready for the ultimate movie experience we've got carrots we got onion we got donuts they got our coffee I just got to get there already put this as a favorite I will said that is my destination so this is active Park Assist yeah I don't know if you've ever witnessed somebody active Park something before but it's kind of amazing it's going to search for spot oh here we go all right over the park you got this we got this hands off the wheel not do anything the cars parking job complete nice what a movie let's do this you know Mike I'm glad it worked out I'm glad when I showed up at your house bizarrely and randomly and then called you from my car that you were into it and that we had a good time all right I got a blind spot detector is there a friendship detector you know what I don't need a friendship detector to know that this is gonna work all right math not a great time should do this yeah we definitely should her like let me love you all right I hope you have a great day thanks man if you have a good time too yeah I I've just been I've just been told that Paul's new friend is here in the audience and where could we get a hand raised we're right there hey look it's like so wonderful when people get together and hang out and then come to a show and stare uh-huh anyhow we have a really interesting interview a few months ago I sat down with whoreson Heinz and I wrote a little story about when when research in motion was just starting to talk about their new devices and blackberry 10 and you know they had recently delayed the stuff and they pushed it back there now getting set to release this whole new operating system all these new products and dieter bohn are one of our West Coast editors sat down with torsten the CEO of the company in San Francisco and it's pretty interesting interviews to take a look at this and we will be right back with some very very very special stuff everybody knows it's been a bad for years to rim but the company is coming up on the defining moment with the launch of blackberry 10 and all new modern smartphones we sat down here in San Francisco with CEO thorsten heins to find out a little bit but what's coming on launch and see what he thinks it'll take program to get its mojo back those are signs thanks so much for speaking with us it's a real pleasure we still give you a few times now and the the big news most recently is you guys announced that you're launching blackberry 10 on january thirtieth correct that is the announcement you made the decision to push back the launch and after q4 into q1 of 2013 and so you'll be missing the the holiday season can you talk a little bit about what made you decide to push back the launch into 2013 the major argument really was we not just building a next update of a smartphone OS right windows moving from blackberry 7 to blackberry aid we've built a whole new platform nothing that's in blackberry 10 on a sufferer side has anything to do with what's in blackberry 7 so is a huge undertaking to blow the new platform I'm really really looking at this as a platform taking us something the next decade you need time to get it right you need time to polish it when it when it's out there I wanted to be a WoW experience in the user sense that was the first argument the second one was that q4 is going to be pretty crowded with launches its a typical holiday season and the question we had then with our carriers when we discussed that was you know is it is it too much noise right if you know all these products launched at the same time can I said you know what q1 why don't you go for it they want the quality so they supported us in that decision and we can give you full attention in q1 what's the 10 second pitch for blackberry 10 as opposed to iPhone Android or even windows phone okay you're you're a user hyper-connected always on multitasking and you need to get things done how do we do this the best typing experience on a keypad we have the full integrated hub so your brain is not occupied with any in and out or which application do I have to open and if you're connecting your device to an enterprise we have blackberry balance that makes your personal part of the device full private and allows the CIO to have a fully secure corporate part on the same device windows phone has a very concise patch we have the start screen live tiles and you feel like you can get in get out get out there today remember they call it do you think that you've got that's compelling enough reason for someone to choose blackberry over another platform I think it's it's the user experience that will finally make that decision and with the hub and all the integration of all your communication channels all your notifications into one central hub which is not an application right it always runs on that it was it's always at your fingertips and it's always just one one swipe away wherever you are on this device you just do this one gesture and you're in your activity center right and you take activities on all your channels beat facebook twitter email BBM whatever you have right notifications out of the hub so there's no need to say back facebook all bank back linked and back PBM right and I think that is so compelling because right now people are really getting overwhelmed by all the different channels they have to deal with right they're hyper connected and we just make this so easy and comfortable them I I think that's going to just speak for itself the big question of course is apps and recently said that you're aiming for a hundred thousand apps at launch how are you going to get to that number that's a pretty big number oh we have pretty good line of sight to get there you had about the 30 jam conferences that we did globally and the way we look at this is and we learned this from our presence in asia pac and middle east and south africa applications are also local so the first attempt is in every of our major countries get to the 200 to 600 most important local app so really work with the local app developer community this is why we did this in 30 countries and then the generic applications like in our games content video music books we are deeply integrated with Twitter Facebook and LinkedIn it's not just an application is really deeply integrated into the device that's one thing second is we have built a blackberry 10 platform with various software developer tool kiss on it flash air html5 C C++ native and then we have an Android player with Android apps the way that you execute that on the playbook OS is relatively interesting the developers still need to submit them directly to the blackberry store yeah because we want this to be part of the blackberry appworld blackberry would but they don't have to do a lot of coding or anything they submitted it gets converted into the BlackBerry App World a file format they need to be on the commercials and sign up for that we tested for quality for sure right so we take a look at that and then it's there I think back talk about the competition a little bit microsoft it seems is really gone after you guys with Windows Phone 8 they've got the whole new kernel and platform that's tightly integrated with a whole bunch of their their windows services and especially their their enterprise services for device management how are you guys going to counter Microsoft to ensure that Windows Phone kind of doesn't eat your lunch I have a lot of respect for all companies working in this space because they all have good engineers they all have creative people right so I think it's about the smartphone market in the u.s. is a very mature market sixty percent penetration by now right whereas in other regions we sit at twenty so if you are in a mature market you need to segment you need to find your bull's-eyes segment we have identified this for the blackberry user with those three criteria and it's not us you know putting this on paper academically we did in intense user study about this for four weeks and month which is your hyper connector your multitasking and you need to get things done so you're probably not using the device to game or to watch TV shows now we got to be good at that because that's a consumer decision element right but the hub the flow the peak the balance that is all geared towards this segment that roughly is kind of about fifty percent of the smartphone users and that's what we're aiming it and that's where we compete second thing is I truly believe in mobile computing I predict that over time laptops really will disappear go into a meeting today and see what people carry into a meeting right so sometimes when you have discussions with your financial teams in a company you know they they are the excess spreadsheet gurus and they come with big laptop right but in general I think we were up to mobilize the the enterprise and in my view is smartphone and or a tablet is going to be good enough for fifty sixty percent of all mobile workers of all employees in a corporate enterprise and that's also what we're shooting it what is your metric of success for blackberry 10 if you know if we talk again in six months what will be the thing that says you know yes we're doing we're on the right path this is going well or no this isn't going well i think it is clearly make mark in the market so you know being being attractive to consumers and to enterprises selling the device in certain quantities is a measure of success no doubt right successful global launch is a good sound marketing campaign Iran it that attracts consumers and then we will ramp it up right so that to me is the next six month and then bb10 will proliferate into the portfolio so there will be new products we probably can talk about it if you meant for them now that black pretend will be and it is again it is also from me the exploration of the mobile computing domain so i have several projects innovation projects running right now in the company where we want to you know start building this this mobile computing experience well thank you very much good luck with the launch oh thank you dear and I've been great talking with you yeah thank you tourists in hinds he really knows how to bring it home he does well that's it we've come to just about the end of our last show of the season and it's been a crazy year if any crazy here and as we get close to thanksgiving i think we all have a lot to be thankful for all anything that you want to say you're thankful for as a matter of fact go on I have a new niece and nephew Oh both to 22 new relatives in one month that's a hell of a month and also I gotta with you that's even better than new relatives that's done a big improvement over relatives Neil I anything you'd like to say thankful for I was married so my wife but really your continued help may you survive that is so since a larger that is find me y'all right well you're nothing I can go to anybody Josh living yeah we're so happy about me being alive I'm thankful for my wonderful life as well and my family and I have to say I'm really thankful for you guys here and who the people who read the site give yourselves a round of applause you deserve it and you know what I'm really thankful for the verge team let's get the birch team out here and that's our show thank you guys so much for coming I want to make on and we'll see you guys in 2013 Happy Thanksgiving let's go Oh