Gadgetory

live hello internet welcome to the final google hangout of small empires this episode was about vimeo and we are wonderfully joined by some of the vimeo team here and obviously as well as stephen Kirk and Alexis you guys know very well by this point so we have Andrew and Andrea from the vimeo team and you guys can introduce yourselves and obviously talk about vimeo and what you guys do for the company uh yeah sure so I'm Andrew Pyle I'm the CTO of your video um and I'm Andrea Allen I'm the director of video production at Vanina so why don't you talk about vanilla oh sure yeah so Vimeo is a big-ish video sharing website um we've been doing this for about 10 years it's changed quite a bit over that time and i think you know at the time of this video on the small Empire Sigma shot um you know we're a little over a hundred sixty people we're here in New York is 2014 um and we're just about to go into the holidays yeah so everybody's taking a big big side relief oh well it's not a yeah yeah today o people are pretty psyched today because it's like our holiday party tonight and we just we showed the video from the whole company and people are pretty into it so yeah there's a lot of like the mio nationalism going around the office ready we're ready to get turnt and Vimeo knows how to get turnt for sure ok wait speaking of vimeo nationalism do you got what is the story behind the pizza flag and agents Oh piece of my best chris christie i can who's one of our copywriters and there's i think there's a well i think everyone at Vimeo a pizza fan and for a while there or not we don't want you getting your not allowed and out but there's this big joke every time you know we would go off a pizza or people dealing w want pizza and it just got to be this like running joke in the office that pizza is the best thing ever and we started doing things like drinking there was a pizza beer I think that passed around at one point seven mark thing that was a mark thing there's just a pizza culture is a alive and well here at Vimeo and we decided but I think Chris decided we needed to have a pledge to the pizza flag and he wrote it up and it's beautiful yeah we should give mark a shout out yeah yeah mark 4 platoon a look mark mark but don't put that in your mouth we've got this guy works here yes I minima team and he brings in special guests this could be people who work at Vimeo or just people on who are from Vimeo community and he finds the craziest stuff online buys it and then they eat it together and they films it and it's it's and thanks like a billion puts it up onto the airships you find in the back of like the Chinese bakery yeah you know cartoon rabbits on them and you're like what is this then you eat it it's like I don't know some fruit that you've never heard of like yeah yeah yeah like pizza flavored beer once yeah octopus chips there's I mean it was broken mechanic wait one of them is called eating meat in a bag from the garbage haha are you serious I oh yeah where is this I'm gonna I'm gonna link it to you guys uh right there it's the still thumbnail is just him pulling a piece of meat out of a bag it looks like came from the garbage yeah Martin he's getting this looks accurate Oh mark that's our designer Justin on the right and then design so yeah light is a shot me office oh I'm scared I would not want to take me out of the garbage from here generally decide this episode's product meeting it back to my garbage Wow yeah accurate cool haha okay before we get too sidetracked by that I a pretty good example of what we noticed when we were there and just about like the company culture that you guys have it to me out it seems like it's very vibrant and people are very happy there yeah it's something that I I sort of take I mean it's weird to take that seriously to use those words to take something that but I really do um working with people that are so talented so good at their jobs can be very intimidating um but what's great is that everybody the thing that you know everybody has in common whether it's a developer an engineer on the back end or someone who's a designer or someone who works in marketing or PR um we all are like really into having fun and although that sounds like yeah okay everybody likes to have fun namion takes it to a level that I've never worked at a company where we've been like at the level of fun it's almost like this requirement like we outdo each other up we tried to like see how much fun let me just give one example we do every year we go to UM we caught the summer retreat and we go somewhere outside of the city um it'd be best if it was in international waters we're working on that but we go outside of the city and we take over basically like a campsite but is usually you know for like like a summer camp the summer camp and we take it over for a whole weekend and we just kind of like rage and go nuts and it's one of my it will continually be a new favorite memory every year there's nothing quite as therapeutic as like going into the woods with a hundred fifty your co-workers and just like having it out for a weekend in the woods getting paranoid it's the best way you really get to know people that you know not everybody works with everyone else but all those barriers are down when you know you're out in nature having a thing going on a canoe ride um thrown around the camp me now there's just like yeah anything yeah and if you know work is a place you spend like most of your life for better for worse so it's like you really need to like the people you see on that time with and um you know I think vimeo it's a lot of people who were cured like relatively young but they've also worked here for a long time so they're like pretty close friends through actually like a big chunk of their life which is kind of kind of kind of bird I think about but so yeah is most of your team based in New York or do you have international offices as well yeah almost everyone's in New York right now except for I think there's like two or three people in London oh wow I'm a couple in LA and a couple now I'm sorry um so it's like you know had people around the world like who work remotely a lot of that is while we wait for their visa stuff to clear yeah and Andrew you've been at with vimeo since like day zero right well i think yeah i've been here since um lado 5 which was basically like you know vimeo launched in like earlier that year but it wasn't like what it is today back then it was a basically a personal side of our founders and it was only his videos so i actually came to work at college humor way back in the day and kind of grew up with the company and as finger it became more and more of a primary thing I'd moved on to doing doing that yeah and I joined up in well i joined the man started posting my own videos in 2006 and then came to work at Vimeo in 2008 so i've also been here a little bit not as long as pile obviously but i mean here the longest yes he's grandma please grab I'll uh what is vimeo the name is that just a name that someone came up with Jake um yeah after came up with that Jake Lodwick it has two meanings one is video with me in it and the other is it's an anagram of movie oh the me part of that is um pretty integral actually because you know I'm vimeo you're only allowed to upload videos that you create or had a you know big hand in creating um and you know I think that really lends itself to back at the beginning you know you could watch a video and when you left a comment you knew that you were speaking directly to that creator and I think this is mentioned by Alexis in the am in the video but that is actually part of the reason that like I think the community grew in the way that it did rather than how it does on other sites like YouTube where it can be a little like caustic because you don't if you're just kind of thrown that like that common app it doesn't matter what you say when you're talking directly to the person that made that thing you're going to be a little bit more careful and like you know nice ya know it's kind of an a leaper sunol like people you know it grew out of this place where people put their own uh I won't say exactly private but like personal videos um and that's really what the me was about um ironically there's youtube which you know launched wait pretty much in the same month but but we didn't really know about each other um so it's funny that like a few big video drinks i said like need you yes it's what it is interesting though because YouTube is generally like if you look at youtube globally it's more about like audience building and like getting numbers and like going viral like that's what YouTube is at its core but then video is about like here's something I made or here's something that I saw or hears me that I feel if they are like fundamentally different and it's just this weird coincidence maybe or like just the power of language that force that to happen yeah I mean I think it's it like it's everything like you kind of can't look at one particular aspect of it and be like oh it was this rule or that was this you know piece of content that really defined Vimeo or YouTube for people um yeah it's it's everything it's the aesthetic it's the content on there as a whole it's the way people talk to each other it's yeah your rate things I think a lot of it too is I mean being an early user of the site I just remember seeing videos that like Andrew and Jake and Zack and all these people we were working there were making and that sort of taught me what this what it was like to be on this site what my like when I'm on this site I should act like this is how it's expected and this is what's like what's appropriate and I think that was really helpful to and building that community so but Mike Pyle said it was like can't point to one thing it's a lot of things yeah yeah it's funny because I I've been updating my profile in the last couple days and like I haven't been some of the notes on the website that that are there like in the profile sightings and stuff and there's all these like little hidden jokes that kind of notice really like browsing deeply and it's it's so refreshing to find things like that throughout the site you know like the way that things are worded or like different prompts like it's very clear that there is a sense of humor there and that's value and I think that is so huge and being able to differentiate you know the feeling of both sides it's it's it's so well done oh thank you yeah we kinda have a saying that it's important to take you know people's work seriously and you should take your work seriously but you should never take yourself too seriously I think that comes through in the site to you should talk about the hard thing you know if you go into the the vimeo search field than you type in the word fart you'll have a pleasant surprise everybody's doing it right now it's weird right now that work girl up and down um now it's true i mean i think over the years we've been like pretty consistent in church is not working this guy told our search is not working yeah it's a technical difficulties cool cuz you're an all-team awesome yeah yeah um I get in a minute I guess yeah no I think we've been really consistent over the years with our kind of like voice and are you know personality um you know we want to put the thing out in the world that makes us happy and that we want to use and I think that's why it's like so closely aligned with what were life personally so um you know and getting like 160 people's personality into a website is like a weird thing to think about but you know a lot of people that work here now came from the community or came to vimeo because that they got that yo you identical ones out there yeah so kind of like see this site and you're like I like this yeah it's a little bit of like a virtuous cycle of you know you put something out there that people enjoy using and they'll eventually come work with you yeah so as someone who is a casual you know video browser I spent a lot of time on YouTube and my idea of vimeo and my friends feel the same way is that video is just a website that has really great quality videos uh what do you guys think Vimeo is a sort of stands for because rightly you like YouTube is the biggest thing ever but vimeo exists and it's really strong and you guys mentioned this a little bit in the video or Alexis did but um yeah talk about what separates you know what makes video different than YouTube oh I'll take 17 than you and then you follow up I'll add the color commentary I think that the thing that separates it I truly is i mean yes Vimeo is known for the highest quality videos on the internet and between it be because of staff picks that's what you're immediately going to see um I wouldn't necessarily call my videos the highest quality videos on vimeo um but i do feel like Vimeo is the place for me because the main difference that when I look at videos on YouTube versus Vimeo videos on vimeo is that the people who are uploading to vimeo care about their videos in a different way than they care like the people that upload to youtube I think um I think we're talking about a YouTube looking like being this place to get all these views it doesn't necessarily matter how good the video is as long as you get views for as on vimeo you care about your video and you're not looking necessarily to get like this massive viral hit it's a place that you go to upload something that you actually care about and i think that to me that is that the heart of my kind of what separates it and i'm sure if i will have a different thing to say but yeah well i mean i think ya know that that's totally right like we usually say that it's like if you you know give a at all about how your video looks and about what people are gonna say about it and you know what other videos are gonna move you around it it's better off being on vimeo because just those are the things were better at um you know if you care about getting some kind of huge level of exposure or making you know money off through advertising then that's what you choose for and you know that's that's kind of a weird delineation but it really stems from I think what is the more fundamental difference which is we've always built a product to really care people who make videos and YouTube as a product has really kind of beer down this path of you know being a viewing destination and being this kind of just massive repository of a video which is a very like Google thing and um so you know look our incentives are they were line differently you know vimeo makes money off of subscriptions and from creators who sell their work or who bought their tools then pay us for it and you know uh yes you know the entire business is incentivized around watching a lot more content and watching ads with that content so it's like it really i think fundamentally is like two sides the same coin I think we built our future set around people who make video and therefore 10 but care a lot more about how it looks um probably why you see that content reflected on there yeah Alexis are you gonna do a Vimeo account are you gonna start making short films uh you know I actually have a Vimeo account from mmm way back when we see if it's still there it's gonna be really embarrassing that's the best part how far you've come yeah it's beautiful it means like the only place in the internet that I use on any regular basis where it's like the other account holders and like some of the videos that are in my legs hey like the timestamp is like eight years ago nine years ago it's like whoa the whole world's gonna be like that soon like everything you posted it's just like I mean I know it's out there but uh a lot of these like companies and networks haven't been around long enough that you actually go back there like that was a decade I was like um yeah how'd you Alexis huh I found you mahjongg um is it official years ago six years startup guy red pig the band rocks of the San Francisco pier 39 yeah this was not a mess is not a terribly well produced video product is this you playing music yeah yeah I had a band for a little bit there's cold bread big earnest in your in your profile that's yeah that's before he got broken great um Wow oh you're only following one person Wow looks not a good poorhouse episode 1 like and one following well Adam to the credits of epi yes yeah we gonna add it to the credit drive some traffic yeah no really gonna do all that because he's rolling in so i have an eyelid question unfollower for you guys i think um like I said before just casual you know video watcher but the one glaring difference between Vimeo and YouTube is that you guys don't really push the account like at all it's like kind of even hard to find that has that been like a fundamental principle from the beginning that it wasn't about the views it was about the quality of the video because obviously that's like a you know a pretty big design choice that you made yeah I mean I think there's a couple of aspects of that like back um like when you to was this is like 2007-2008 it was like YouTube's one of their most popular pages was just like most popular videos ever and it was like the same basically dozen videos for like several years because it's just a giant feedback loop and so when we were you know building vimeo and building out the features uh we didn't want to have this kind of like top ten or like most view type of ideas kind of floating around out there those me just viewed it as this kind of like that's how you get into this like we were death spiral of like you know a certain community kind of bombs on the video it takes it over we wanted the kind of you know experience that people had when they first came to vimeo to be based around you know our curation things like that so for us kind of as like a you know product team we didn't really think you mattered that much i mean we've always understood that it obviously matters the people that make the video me personally I don't think like an ever-increasing number that eventually is just getting rounded off is all that exciting I know that that's not a super popular opinion amongst video creators but yeah it has kind of remained a little bit more downplayed you know like back in the day it was like the total like coin of the realm was like the number of plays you have on YouTube and people talk about that now but now when you see YouTube advertising they talk about subscribers yeah but I do think the kind of value of a play it's kind of like a page view you know it's like I think the whole economy around video online is like evolved and beyond that um just another way vimeos ahead of the curve yeah I mean we also push the harder it's much easier to see like how many likes you know you're that video has received in how many and how many comments people have left on it and again like that to me um I remember this can't remember who said it was like Vimeo we never considered it like the vimeo community shouldn't you shouldn't approach it like a sea of eyeballs that you need to trick into watching a video of yours that you should be making something that you're like like you're proud of and you hope that people will also like be into I am you shouldn't be trying to trick people and watching your video by putting some crazy I don't know thumbnail on it or like right yes a lie cuz it's got a huge number of views you should totally watch this it's not based on that right yeah i mean i don't think i can like talk expose me about some of these numbers but like it's funny because you know Forever Living has been compared to youtube and like over the years the I don't know like how big we are compared to youtube I know how big we are I get numbers about you too but even comparing the numbers like the way we count metrics and things like that it's hard to compare apples and apples on that but we've always been like a percentage of YouTube right whether that's players or traffic or uploaders reviewers or whatever it is and I don't really know what the percentages that run the numbers like over the years but it's always been like any percentage of YouTube is a meaningful thing to me you know and like I think it's a meaningful thing for any website like we're top I don't know 50 website or something like that it's pretty big and um you know five years ago it was like oh youtube has you know X number of hundreds of millions if you did videos play per month and I'm like all right well we do this many million and then now it's like and but in the preso is always like well Vimeo is a tiny part of what you and now it's like Oh YouTube does like several billion a month and we do like however many we do and why okay well we're still doing a huge amount of traffic crazy explosive yeah um and like work you know a thousand times bigger than we were a couple years ago which is still kind of comparatively this small thing um it's weird how like you get bigger and bigger and bigger but you're always smaller right biggest person in the room so it's like it's kind of me they've kind of run cover for us in that way where it's like we don't ever have to you know like run away from the idea of like we're to mass market or were too popular or to anything like I think we've really done a good job walking that line um so yeah and I think that you guys had the advantage of you have you know most of your team is in one location whereas I think like as soon as YouTube got bought like right they became part of this huge behemoth that is then all of a sudden scattered across all different places and become much more corporate so you guys are really being able to retain a lot of that culture and that style that wouldn't be possible otherwise that's true and I also have to say like um throughout you know Andrew what was your title when you when you came on vimeo and oliver developer and now he's tto I mean and that's awesome like a lot of times I don't know I mean I vimeos the best thing but like tech the first technology company that I worked at yeah but you may be hired on to do community work and then being able to create the video in-house video production department for you know a site that is worshipped for its video is like beyond what I would have expected of any job and that's another thing that makes me I think and again I don't know about google and how they like hire promote or anything or at YouTube at all but I can't say that the way that the media treats its employees with like respect and um and like trust who continue to run with what we already know is a good model is like super awesome yeah yeah a good place to work at I think you know yeah culture is important I don't think you can keep the like um and we're talking about like the voice of the meal like him kind of like personality it's like that's like the first thing you lose because um well it just is ah you can't you can't recreate that you cannot manufacture in scale yeah and like there's no Casey my guess like otha yeah authenticity i think is the word people would probably used to describe that that kind of vibe um but um yeah I don't know I don't feel bad for YouTube like when they joined Google I mean you see the things that they do if I'm a technology basis and like the resources you to like google has its disposal it's just it's freaking outrageous yeah I mean it's awesome and it's scary and yeah Oh Andrew have a quick question for you what's left as CTO what's kind of the biggest like fire that you have to put out on a regular basis with like in regards to technology that goes into a video platform and stuff the King's brother we're stuck I break the web same on a buddy me um the biggest fire to put on a daily basis you know it's it's less technology stuff like every day you know I think as we become like um more of a streamlined business and we like get smarter at things like doing stuff that we hadn't done before like marketing you know it becomes like the people that have been around for a while ended up kind of making more strategic decisions than like the day-to-day fire stuff you know I mean the worst like technical related thing that happened to us this year it was we got like dee da super bad in January we were down for like most of the morning yeah Mebane North Korea yay oh is that was that North Korea uh it was not North Korea although they'll be watching email me we would definitely host the interview oh my god um no we actually i guess i'll tell the story never told story Funyun is a good story to tell the story I'll tell a story so um we're getting d dust and we got an email ordering that's here they have the disasters watching I hope you thought I hope yes listen to us cuz you should be scared oh yeah forgot site was down big mess trying to keep it up we have like a failover site we flip over that but like you know takes him a couple minutes to retarget that video so it's not a good situation it's all hands on deck a bunch of people are doing various things to try to get stuff working what hour of the day this is like the morning this is like 10 a.m. yeah i'm running around screaming yeah um yeah a lot of people with their like offices lock with like 10 people in it like all staring at a screen really closely like a lot of a lot of that that morning but um so is now so even people like the designers you know the engineers are working on like technical solutions like okay we're gonna route all of our traffic through ec2 or we're gonna like get this d das mitigator online and you know we were calling up people like going heels websites calling up the 800 number and being like hey you do like DDoS mitigation melon yeah or like great were a top 50 website and work down and we need to like point all of our traffic at you right now that was a crazy morning for like that but the funniest and the best thing that happened in that day was we got an email from this guy that claimed to be the one DDoSing us and he wanted a hundred dollars you're like a hundred dollars um oh we don't negotiate with terrorists like but we were like what should we do like what should we say this guy first we made him prove it so he like we're like prove it to you so we like stop that he does and he said he was gonna do a more like funk that's actually him um and he was like I want you to pay me a hundred dollars and we're like um alright how would we pay you and he's like used like this website and you go as website it's like you know some scammy like debit card fake things like you plug in your information and it goes through like Germany and then the Cayman Islands he gets enough um so we're like okay we're going to like run this by illegal apartment like find out if we can pay you this way and basically trying to string this guy alone and kind of keep them on the line and we you know we're saying all this stuff over the course but they like you know we need your we need your w-2 to pay you to be like what is not gonna happen boy so we did was we set up a fake painting website it was called like secure payment dot us or something we your your team created one yeah the diners who the site was down to the desires that don't you do so they take website um so and it looks like it was like a bootstrap thing with like a big like clipart dollar bill it was like the safest way to pay online yeah so we're like all right go to this web like what about this and we can't pay this German thing so what if you go to this website so we sent him this link so he got his IP know and not only that it had we had a pop-up that said you know click here to verify it works in your country and which was just the html5 geolocation API got the guys like street address got got Wow and then what um but it wasn't in use in North Africa we couldn't get to him so he wasn't around the corner like we were hoping we could just come knock on the door ya see nope let's ask you a few questions he did ask you guys for a hundred dollars yeah well presumably the hundred bucks was just like a phishing scams yeah make it yeah it's a hundred bucks to be like cuz once you're on that list of like places that want to go she ate or whatever it's like yeah and if you go back to I think it was a general where's it was it it was earlier in the year but there are like a string of d-don't you guys remember like a string of sites there we go it's Dropbox altar right and like a couple places published the email and it was the same email we got except he was asking for like different amounts of money like like fifty dollars or like $75 very sure another yeah anyway marketing team that got asked Yeah Yeah right we learned a lot that day um yeah including even when you catch the guy you can't do anything about it yeah amazing but that yeah the fake site was just like even though like that was like a fixed article didn't fan and it was like really bad everybody's kind of bummed it was still like this really kind of fun trying to a fun day oh man look at this site we just made that's yeah that's awesome so what is the next five years for vimeo look like oh man um well we're going to keep drawing I think very on demand is like super promising I think you know the user expectation you guys talked about this a lot and video like the is your expectation of like being able to pay for things online is definitely changing over time people's capability to produce things to put online that are actually worth watching is increasing so you know we're hoping to be like right in the middle of that combination of things that are happening if like giving the tool set and being like that people want to put their stuff to sell directly to consumer um you know from like a pure technology basis like obviously a higher resolution video is on the input side and the output side is going to get bigger and bigger and bigger and I think what's happening what happened basically a year and a half or what we saw basically to basically that the year ago was people's expectation of how video and where video can be played like completely flat so you know the idea that you shouldn't shoot something on your phone and watch on your TV almost immediately is like a totally nuts idea like three or four years ago today it is completely standard issue like um so you know like set-top boxes desktop phone this idea that you don't have flash installed oh you're gonna have a TV that has the right codec or some like that it's like none of those days are over like compatibility for playing back video is like from a consumer perspective assault problem so there's like no going back from that expectation that whatever your where we are paying for something wherever you're shooting something you're gonna be able to watch it and experience it anywhere and I think what we're going to start seeing soon and this is happening with like cloud providers like drama stuff is like the kind of idea of like capturing creation I feel like that's going to becoming more of a kind of flat process so you know you shoot video over here and you watch it someplace else well now it's going to shift more into the realm particularly in the pros but assuming everywhere like you should hear you edit here you can also edit here you can you know collaborate with somebody over here the kind of cloud aspect of actual video creation has a really comfy fruition so that's another area I think we're like prime to kind of be involved in and I'm super excited about that yeah wait so are you guys gonna make a cloud-based editing and publishing solution is that what you're talking about well can do gonna be for my desktop in two years okay then the interesting thing about cameo is that particularly the one point oh and there's still a lot of this in two point O although we've optimized it um that's actually a cloud-based editing solution so it's like you capture on your phone but all the editing and all the effects and all that stuff that's all being pushed up and rendered on the cloud and pulled back to your phone okay you sit is why there is a delay and some of this stuff and so we've optimized a lot of that out by doing more of these things locally but that engine that powers that whole kind of process is like modular so we've actually taken a lot of what was going on in the cloud and move that into the phone and we have this ability now to kind of move this this video creation anywhere we want so I think it's a very natural extension to kind of bring that to other places I mean the obvious one is Android and like tablets and stuff like that but um yes definitely not a realm reason to bring it to the web and connect all these things so it becomes a more of a contiguous process yeah man boobies already taking steps in that direction that would be awesome to like provide that sort of same tool set for I mean for our pros especially I mean how many times do you get like a screener or a private you know a link from a Vimeo you know link that is like here take a look at this rough cut its gotta be private and it's gotta look awesome so I'm going to send it via Vimeo um imagine being able to like collaborate with multiple people across no across country across the world on that same file uploading other files and having that collaboration there um directly on the place that you will end up yes watch was like perfect so does a world exists where vimeo does things like house of cards where you know people are rushing to go to vimeo to watch a new show well i mean it's kind of already happening with high maintenance i mean i think that we were lucky in that you know high maintence had like a pretty fervent audience already so you know and we promoted in a bunch so the excitement around the original content um I mean it's improving on netflix and stuff but already starting to understand like what that how you go about doing something like that so um I hope you see a lot more of it yeah and i think the the key element that will differentiate like what netflix is doing like what vimeo is capable of is actually like money so video has this you know the most talented people right and the fact that we would be able to facilitate them making more of that awesome content and then selling it to their audience who are also vimeo users and beyond um i think that's what's going to be the most important thing is like finding people like like the high maintenance folks we're already making awesome stuff and being like we want to do we want you to do more of that and we want to give you money to do wear that and i think that there's a just there's so many people making awesome awesome stuff on demand we just need to like continue to find them fund them and promote them and I mean that's the thing is if we're making things tools the website decisions based on is this going to be good for our community for our users then we're doing the right thing because that ultimately feeds back into what makes the website great and what makes you know working here great and what makes everybody who comes to the site think that this is awesome and what to do the same thing exactly awesome I think we should wrap up we've gone yeah we had a solid conversation this was great thank you guys so much for hanging out and for the people watching go to youtube.com slash the verge and search for this episode of small empires Ariki washer on the verge calm or video or Vimeo I was saving the best for last yeah but uh yep so that actually concludes this season of small empires as well these small empires hangouts but luckily for you they are on the internet so you can watch them over and over and over again uh and that's it we won't be back next week we might be back for season 3 I don't know Stephen 13 on video yeah maybe in an awesome future ha but yeah thanks you guys for watching and tuning in and we will see you in the future