Gadgetory

hello and welcome to a very special verge roundtable all about Star Wars The Force awakens not just the film itself but literally the culture around it as like the last year has been nothing but Star Wars consuming all merchandising and culture and pretty much everything there is to have so do a little bit of context we saw the force awakens last night everyone here we are going to talk about spoilers a lot so if you haven't seen the movie yet maybe just pause it come back to us later it'll still be here but anyway let's let's go ahead and get started so I'm Ross Miller I'm gonna be moderating kind of helping everything go along and these are the experts who are actually going to be talking Sosa's uh-huh so I'm Lauren Gresh I write about space so I know something about stars I think I'm Tom Condon I do video so I know something about film I'm Sean o cane I really like Star Wars and I'm Kwame Oklahoma news editor and I occasionally review films cool so you're the one with the job title here well let's go ahead get started so this is literally less than 12 hours ago we'd all just saw the movie for the first time so what was kind of your immediate reaction and also now that you've had like a little bit of sleep how has that changed a little bit of sleep sleep is pretty much operative as fact if I got to ever sleep so that was it was great we are literally this is a new movie to an extent but we are still obsessed and talking about all the old nostalgia stuff and I think I think it's like you were talking about earlier it is a new new hope yeah our reviewer Tasha did a really great job of summing up how I feel personally it was just it was an alternate universe version of a new hope set in the same universe and I thought that was very OnPoint and I fully understand I'm gonna be in the minority here and most people will be like yes is what we want we don't want the prequels where that are completely different from the beginning we want you know what we've know and love however I feel like it was it was so mimic it mimicked a new hope so precisely and it just felt like there it didn't move anything forward for me I wanted something new and I didn't really get that yeah I mean I'm willing to split the difference like I don't disagree with you entirely and like I'm you know I'm gonna get but really was like basically a beat for beat remake in a lot of ways of a new hope like you have the desert planet which was basically Tatooine you have the invasion of the Citadel which is basically the Death Star you have the last strike in the end and the explosion it's like all these moments even like the Most High Isley of cantina scene like basically the same but like enough was different where they're setting up all these new beats that going to happen the next movies were these new characters which are fully fleshed out and it felt like JJ Abrams does this a lot like he did this really really purposefully in like kind of badly in the Star Trek films like particularly with the star trek into darkness but like this one he did the same thing but he did effectively the same thing this movie but it worked because he very clearly cared and was trying to get fans to not only forgive the past and like forget the prequels but also like create this new saga within this saga today I had a weird experience because I am purposefully a spoiler drunky so I came in knowing pretty much the entire film I was like it was like I'm not gonna like be disappointed by the fact that it is like the same style where storyboard kind of struggled together and shuffled around and like that way I just like focus on the moments to me Star Wars has always been the moments I didn't see the original ones in the theaters I would just know these certain key moments like there's a style there's a performance to it so like yeah it's it's a it's a reboot of myth essentially it's about how the characters man this is JK the story it's about the characters I the story is so important to do so here's the one thing I think what I wish I would have seen is that he was very clear one point you're like oh I get the formula I get it and like I wish there was just that one thing you would do that with the formula just a bit you know what I mean yeah like it doesn't like you know I'm gonna let's get into the big spoiler that Han dies right sorry everyone but so that whole scene is happening and I feel like they're drawing it out like making you think well maybe it's not because it's so long one of the same thing you just expect to happen happens yeah like that was not a twist for me that was very it was like somebody's gonna die in this movie and then when it as soon as that happened I was like Hans dad it even Kris my boyfriend Scenic's me he's like oh about to get big everyone everyone theater saw it regardless of the fact that you could see the obi-wan like foreshadowing of that but like any easier things like even like he could still die but you could still like put a twist and they're like what if at the end because like they made issues with between Leia and Han right like what if Han didn't like be really nice to kylo at that in that scene like what if he was like a stern father yeah and like the the scenes where Kyle was like oh he'll he'll let you down and stuff like that like what if that came to a head and that was the images for him to actually call him and not just well I have to do it cuz I'm even know what if Han killed kylo like what if it they just kind of went crazy I think that would that would have been that would it was truly shocked me we're shocked me too cuz Harrison Ford's not gonna sign a three-year anyone going into the film thinking that he was gonna be around for all three especially because all the marketing is doing like you know he's like I'm done guy movie that injured him he's not coming back so I saw that I mean I like all of you guys saw that coming from the moment that he sees him out on that cut like we could rename a lot of the Star Wars movies just like the father and son on a catwalk I mean is like of all the tropes they redo this was like I was like really a catwalk again well it also old sage dies right well so a bottom was pick I mean where did they all go but I didn't really mind I didn't really mind the way that they played it like I knew that he was gonna die but that scene was not only incredibly well acted which I think you can say about almost the entire movie I think some people probably won't love some of kylo ren's stuff especially with his mask off but like I thought that scene was so acted and it could have been screwed up by acting really easily and by bad dialogue and I think they played it really well and even though you knew he was gonna die that turn I mean they give kylo Ren that beat he has that moment where some people in the audience probably believed it some people probably bought like oh he's gonna be good like maybe he's not going to be the bad guy in the next couple movies and then it was it was one of a number of really subtle touches by JJ Abrams throughout this whole movie to happen here that I really loved which was just not only does he turn in his emotion a little bit but it's right when the Sun goes out that's powering this this weapon and the blue on his face disappears and it just goes to red and I thought that was like it was really impacting even though I knew it was coming I loved the way they played it and if if I if I was hoping for them to like really change up the formula I care less about it happening in really the first two thirds in the movie and would rather have had it happen with to me the big one was the Death Star like or the star killer base like the beats through the first two-thirds of the movie yeah the beats and they even make that joke the beats through the first two thirds of the movie I'm okay with you kind of like rehashing them and messing with them but knowing that that's what's going to be at the end the entire time as soon as you see nothing knowing there to have to do a trench run knowing they're gonna have to find a weakness like that made that whole part kind of like you could feel the air kind of get sucked out a little when they showed it and everybody was like man this is gonna be where it ends which is why I'm glad that like they really went the extra step in like brought ray to Luke at the very end of the movie because at least gave it gave you one more little bit of scenery that wasn't just like they're celebrating and it's over let's talk about that because I feel like maybe I'm on the outside opinion on this but I hated that scene scene oh no we also joked it was like oh Luke's just been standing looking at the ocean for years it's not just that it's just like if you're gonna like languish in that moment for so long yeah just give me something the meme of like this shot for Mike her face to his that was like one more shot of his face where he's like I feel like the internet has ruined me because like that was my thought too when I'm watching the ceiling I'm sure it's very beautiful my first thought is this is a three-panel meme it's gonna be on reddit soon as there's a home video release and it's gonna end with I gotta poop like that's how it's gonna end that's happening do you think of the helicopter shot there cuz that kind of sucked me out a little bit that was like a bizarre reviewer said it was like his favorite shot ending shot of a man action brighter than that all's well did too on Twitter like it was a pattern that said that or brinded I really love the same difference I wouldn't find with like the last shot being on Rey holding out and then you cut that would have been fine with me well I mean I think I do all of what I think they're setting up there which is so Luke Skywalker disappeared after he tried to basically start a new jedi order starting with Ben kylo Ren and that went haywire so he felt like Han did super responsible for this guy becoming super evil witch like you think he'd know that that was like a pretty good possibility by this point with dealing with the force but and also your genetics he goes in exile and is like you know we all rot whatever but what I love what that scene sets up because it's like this idea of like that's what where that little head nod that Luke kind of does and you can kind of see his eyes welling up a little bit - it's like she's handing him that lightsaber and he's like no we really can't do this and she's like obviously like no like I'm I'm like probably gonna be the most pure force person ever so like listen to me and I like I like where that's gonna go I think that's like this well that's the tension that's gonna start the next movie and like this movie felt like I think Emily your shooters are this the best day today was like it's it could in fact be interpret isn't another trailer like this is just exposition for a new trilogy yeah I mean I thought they were gonna end with the Falcon go in hyperspace I thought they were gonna cut it there and then when they actually and then I was like wait no they they got to that Island I was like oh no they filmed they're like we've got one more scene yeah well that's also okay I want to talk about the bad guys because they were the ones I had the biggest problem with it seemed through so absurdly evil to the point where I was just like like I get it the dark side is dark but the Empire at least it seemed more Machiavellian to me it was like they wanted to make everyone fear them into submission by showing these big shows of strength by destroying a planet they didn't kill everyone all the time we didn't have to they're already in charge they were in charge they were Nazis yes believe was very clear that they were not I'm not sure if that's a political entity they were Nazis like there's there's so much more than politics for the first-order but then here we have what are their the first-order and they are from the ashes of a completely decimated Empire well what's really great is the film doesn't actually have to go into that and like they didn't bother doing that and I think that was a strength the film actually was like making it more ambiguous I guess but to me all it seemed like they did was take the bad guys and make them better take the Death Star and make it bigger you know like there wasn't it there was one of the jokes that totally didn't land where someone was like so it's like a Death Star but even bigger yeah like I think Maz actually says like I've seen evil so many times first it was a Sith yeah then it was the Empire now it's the first or as like okay men we're all on the same page there's a self-awareness well that's the universe that it exists in now is like that's basically how its set up is like they're like The Return of the Jedi didn't end with the Rebel Alliance defeating the Empire it ended with them wounding them severely by beating their second version of their greatest weapon that like you know despite all the shots of like he walks and people on course not like dancing around it's like they had a lot of work to do after that that's what the original novels are really set up was like that are hard in that part not part of cannon anymore it's like like how do you go apart a convincing people that like yeah the Empire really was bad listen to us we're the New Republic we want to set up a whole new Senate which is what corrupted in the first place and so like that struggle even though all of those specifics aren't don't exist anymore they're starting to build those back out in more novels and they're trying to set up that struggle of like how do you rebuild the society after it's been affected by this thing the problem is they like totally dodged that in the movie you can address it a little bit I think because like here's this alright here's this giant new weapon here's this like ten times bigger Death Star they're gonna they're gonna use it to do horrible unspeakable things they aim it at like the center of the Republic but they give that scene so little weight and it's like yeah if it was about it I wouldn't know who was killed on this planet they show one Johnny I know what planet was no it was the hosnian system but that's all I mean like originally when they do with Leia they blow up her planet right and they make us give that seen a ton of like presents and wait because like you see all the run through the viewscreen you see her coming to this shot like I mean you get like a lot of play where like I wonder I wonder at at some point if it's just like if it's not really worth doing that exact thing again right like yeah maybe like the reason that was quick was because like if you try to put emotional states behind it again it's just like oh it felt like just a show of force for the sake of it like this is their war machine that they're going to demonstrate their power even though they're this highly fanatical radicalized sect of the old Empire I don't even think the show of force is like like the weight is missing is like the problem is they just disabled like alright so here's the resistance which is the fighting arm of the Republic that's like trying to like bring this galaxy back together here's the first order like the guys that can mess it up and they do they mess it up they kill the entire fleet basically and they ruin like where the new Galactic Senate is being set up and that doesn't even get more than a line and it's like hard to understand like at first when those when that whatever is happening the Sun power turned into laser beams or whatever the literal that stuff shoots out as a star killer base right and it's like it's a beam but I actually know it's like these kind of little beams and then it like starts to illuminate these like little balls that are out in space which is like so far away or something like they did a bad job setting up like the place of all these things and then it starts to go towards what looked like tiny little things I was like oh it's like part of like a bigger like galaxy spanning weapon it's gonna hit these things and almost like on the Death Star like refocus and the one bit it's like no they was those were just four planets that apparently hang out right next to each other and like like yeah cuz if I'm rebuilding an entire galaxy I definitely want to put my entire fleet and the Galactic Senate on four planets that are right there right right then everyone know so you'd assume there's like maybe a local government here and there but that's not like the resistance is probably like the new New Republic thing everything's being set up so I wanted to say about that yeah and I don't know if maybe I'm on the moon or it is I feel like that was like the strength of the film was not going into all this right I think so but I just a moment don't worry I agree it needs more weight but I feel like in the same way and there was a couple things I thought they did well like so captain phasma right she gets one name call near the end of the movie in this very simple way - like Boba Fett call like one named Colin yes in the second movie was in yeah and it feels very much like the original trilogy did where you know merchandising is gonna do a better job of like naming and like making these characters real things than the actual films themselves and that leads to like I'm excited for like the next generation of kids to like nerd out about that because it's not in the film and it's like cool to know that those facts that aren't in the film and it feels like there are enough of those little things that like well what is these worlds why are they important I feel like that can be filled with a lot of supplemental material that nerds can just like and I think I think that was a be of the first Star Wars it was a simple story with a very complicated universe and like that's like that's it now it's like go market it it's a cynical way to put it in or go build this world around it and like create these little pockets if you want to care about you can do it which is the loop I'll still kind of Semak away looking at it but like it's a beautiful way of saying we're going to just build a world in a playground to explore and this is just like one part of it that kind of keeps it like I got a through-line like you I feel like I feel like that stuff was the worst part of the prequels like the big lactic stuff that way yeah I mean that's tipping the boat too far in the other direction we just went to pure exposition and just want to being completely well at the same time it's like if we're talking about kind of the political struggle the power struggle I wanted a little bit more than just the we're bad guys and we like to kill people because that seemed to be the main motivation for me it didn't seem to be and I know when I was listen to the original Star Wars also wasn't bad that's the thing and if you go back and given that this is like a pretty assiduous remake of that film then you have to like go back and say well that was a simple story that didn't really do anything in terms of world building except for what was just said plainly and like you can do what you want in that world and like assume things but like there wasn't a whole lot you can only assume so much they run a risk to you like Emily brought this up really I think she said it really well in the first cast it's like there are like horrible unspeakable things that happen and like all the movies and like all this stuff and they're presented in very weird ways and you can see how like the filmmakers behind these movies always have a hard time trying to figure out how to present them so like you know Anakin Skywalker who's gonna kill a bunch of kid Jedi's like how do you present that without it being I mean they probably did a really bad job with that one but like this is the same thing it's like okay how do they cripple the entire Republic like let's blow up all their planets kill like billions of people and like destroy their fleet but like if you if you bask in it a little too much then you're like getting maybe you're showing this atrocity that you need to move your story along like a little - you're laying it a little too bare for like what is ostensibly a kids movie but but yeah I mean this all comes back to your original point which is like the bad guys are probably the weakest part of this movie as next - how much it like copies the structure you need to make this comparison it but it felt very Abbot are like in terms of like the bad guys were just we want this one thing and we will do whatever it takes to get it well that comes from like the way that they built out those characters I mean kylo Ren's like the best of them all yeah as far as like the bad guy at least that internal struggle going yeah and he's yeah and I love I'm so excited to see where he goes and the next two movies especially because not only has he been doing this sort of like Gollum ish kind of like light and dark struggle in his own mind and speaking to himself but he also has like I loved is another like kind of touch that I think JJ Abrams pulled off really well which is like here's this fanatical person who's super powerful and super evil and he wears this mask only out of this like shameless devotion to this thing he doesn't even understand and then to the point that like he will willingly take it off and be like hey look I'm just the dude and then like by the end of the movie he needs the mask because Rey slashes some kinda light just so great like and that's a great point to that just like go into a different place for a second like nothing here was nothing movie was about twists like it was built with the idea of like you couldn't get this movie spoiling it's fine like early on by the way that's her son that's Hans done okay cool like let's take of the bask off early on like let's just play it on performance and execution less than like oh my god it's a twist because that only counts once and this is a move that's going to be seen multiple times probably this weekend probably everybody here right while still setting up a ton of mystery to go forward like like staying on the bad guys side Snoke can we talk about speaking of gone I think all of us probably like kind of fell back on our tears a little bit when he first appears because it's like other than that cantina scene up into that point the movie the use of CGI was like very sparse and very smart and not you know it was what we've heard is that you know this return to practical effects but we get to that scene and it's like here's that here's this massive person or whatever he is and like is like the most like computer-generated monster oh my god he did not look scary to me at all yeah then they pull out and I saw the little light control panel on the thing I was like oh good it's gonna be a hologram and it was a hologram why not just make it a blue hologram I could do that like CGI I just felt so weird and then so like obviously they're trying to set up like you want to know who this guy is the supreme leader it was just the it was like such broad strokes for for those guys and there's like necessary master I mean that's one thing that Star Wars is always hat right yeah bit like there's almost always just to sit at a time and they're almost always master and underling yeah apprentice so obviously they were setting that back up again but like what's gonna happen we were talking about this is like it's a giant hologram he's gonna be like you know yeah big I hope he's human sized at least but like but like I don't know where they're gonna bring that I definitely not interested like I'm curious what he what his story is and stuff but like I didn't leave the theater being like man I got to know what Snoke is all about like it was just too it was two hands we never cared that much like where Palpatine came from mother he was just an entity yeah yeah you don't even see him until Jedi so and then like you find out in the prequels you're like well you know what some things are better left unsaid I think what this film did head and shoulders above the prequels and in some ways above even the original trilogy was just pure dialogue and character work because that did the heavy lifting of the myth building like JJ Abrams knows how to build characters like again like cent lost don't talk to you know like serious like the acting throughout was brilliant and like I think the exchange is between my grades the exchange we didn't have that we didn't a bad droid humor in this movie now there's the thumbs up lighter moment which was like that was the Hokies part but I loved it yeah it was smart but like going back to the scene on the the gangway plank whatever it was just like the subtle choices that the actors made that like build out this entire internal struggle but with kylo Ren the history that Han had with him the history that Han Han with Leia would happen with kylo what Hal had with Luke such that he failed and the fact that would destroyed the new the entire New Jedi Order like that was packed in that one scene and creates this entire universe around them in one area what I'm really excited for with these films is where the prequels had to introduce new characters who had stories ahead of them they didn't have backstory that influenced what's happening in their lives now and now we have all these rich characters with like motivations beyond just well I'm a smuggler and I'm trying to be good or I'm a princess trying to be a badass you know like but like there's so much for the future to go and I'm like kylo Ren is really interested in because it feels like exactly what you wanted from the prequels and Anakin this like idea of someone who's like right on the edge and like having to live those two things I'm like I'm really excited to see how that plays out for three films rather than you know the last third of episode 3 yeah just like the really right guys like he's like the Anakin Skywalker turning into Darth Vader that we deserved about the one who because he's gonna it's it's gonna get brutal yeah he is they made him incredibly powerful they also made ray incredibly powerful and I know that like this is gonna be a point of contention I think once people see it a little bit more and if you're if you're really like a fan of the original trilogy is like there was some super power stuff going on here like these were like some super heroes but I don't I don't hate as much how quickly Ray adapted to the force cuz it set up a really cool we got to talk about ray because it's been way too long that we have not talked about the probably the best Star Wars character ever yeah honestly she was by far the best any time she was on screen I was completely enthralled so I think and I think that was that also speaks to the strengths of this room I know I've been criticizing a lot but the best part I think of a force awakens where are the new people yeah like the new elements I thought were really strong like it's like there's a lesson learned to and like this is where I'm like I don't care that was a kind of reboot than you hope because they did it the better way that she's the anti Luke she's not a whiny little person I fully thought she was on her own and she was about that she was sort of down that out which is like the coolest thing I want to make camp in an Abbott she actually let goes into a Star Destroyer like yeah this is like where I go scavenging it's amazing like they make her a capable human being where's like she's gonna be a badass cuz she already is so just giving these like to a skill that's saying everyone in some way wasn't like a novice like Finn of course he's a great fighter he's been dedicated whole life Poe we know he's a great Starfighter like it wasn't like these are just chance to almost were they lucked out like everyone was a capable human being that just happened like like when the moment came just acted on it and like did very convincing stuff and also like you're saying very nuanced portrayals like a very broad stroke characterizations capable in a lot of ways too not just because she can like jump around a Star Destroyer or not just because she can I mean you know climb around star killer base and yeah I mean there are like tangible reasons why she is like this capable like strong person in a very physical sense but also in like emotionally like we're one of the first scenes with her is like that whole thing where Finn showed up in her town and they're like on the run now because there are there's an attack going on and she's like why are you holding my hand why don't we could talk about this for a while because like I think this is from my favorite part of the movie because where I was mad that JJ didn't subvert things he suffered like every expectation of what you expect from a female role right right like immediately when she Ganza Falcon and it wasn't going well I was like oh no don't be woman driver don't do it don't do it and then she pulls off like that that was the finest display of Ariel's like effect I've seen in a long time yeah I said it before we started I love that this shot that like one of the first shots that we saw from this movie a year and a half ago with the Millennium Falcon doing this like loop-de-loop and like winding up up low on the the sand was not Han Solo it was heard making that maneuver and and that they also they gave it weight like there was a reason for her to get low like they there was enough little exposition to like not just make it a cool thing but like she made it happen and like every moment like the entire time she's in that film they set up a expectation of like oh we have to go rescue her oh wait we got there and she seems well are you all waiting Han Solo on like how to fix his own ship or even if he's not even saying it at the same time of her which like plays for humor she's just doing it and he's like oh and like he's still stubborn enough as like who Han Solo is to not thank her like there's that one moment where like he walks away and she just almost looks at the camera like so great I think my favorite part about her though is you know I there's a tendency when at least when I see women in film when they're strong they have like a hard exterior you know that it's like they can't be emotional they can't be goofy but the best part about her is that she is so charming and she makes jokes and she's she does mess up - she's not like she's not like Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible who like can't do anything wrong but at the same time she still has these really great qualities about her so as it was felt really relatable because it was like oh I make jokes too I can crack jokes but I can also kick ass like Rey can you know which left all the room in the world for Finn to do some of that other stuff well yeah then he was like oh sorry he's like the livewire who like is also to livewire II for his own good it is like almost to bumbly for my taste but like it were it played like because he's boyega is just like incredible and I had not seen until very recently attacked the block which is like his breakout movie which wasn't even that big but like is a really incredible movie and I I watched that before this movie because I wanted to get a sense of him and he plays such a different character in that movie he's like the cool calm collected like leader whereas here he was like I said he's like this bumbling ywír who has like really cool motivations and stuff but he he played it so well and it was such a new energy to this kind of cast that were used to I think the interesting thing about the new cast is like I think it's very easy to see ray as new Luke and Finn as new han and Poe is like Rey kind of subsumes all of those three original characters in her way and like it's still a new character and like the others do that too in their way like Finn is he wants to be Luke and he's kind of han but he can't be that so he has to be something different I think the characters are new I think they're completely new it's their circumstances that haven't changed yeah so yeah like you said she is very different from Luke but she has a very Luke backstory finn and rey are a little bit deeper but Poe was probably the same kind of surface level although forming as hell yeah but I didn't feel like we got enough time with them I felt that a lot about some of the characters too like we got a lot of time with Rey and Finn and I'm very happy about that but mbta I'm like surprised we haven't just talking about be yeah yeah is just perfect there's nothing else to say but everybody else I mean they you were talking about Captain phasma it's like they I feel like there's so much marketing about her and we don't even see Brienne of Tarth space and they're going to and Kristi but you know what put like honestly I do like I was excited by that like I was excited by the idea that she could just keep the mask on the entire time and be that sort of like faceless badass without being like I'm a woman too you know like I feel like that's like a trope that could hold all the time where it's like you'll need the metroid trope yeah you don't need you don't need to pull the max like she can just be that faceless badass and like live in that yeah but you know we've got that other saying all this stuff and was starting you to start wrapping up but what was interesting was like we talked about this is a cookie cutter script in extent to reboot of Star Wars I don't see them being able to like do the same thing with Empire episode whatever is gonna be now eight which is Rian Johnson's next big thing like where do you see this kind of going forward and if it was in anybody else's hands I would be wondering how they're gonna do this like remix formula for Empire like that's where it would feel like it was going but knowing Rian Johnson Rian Johnson like I mean I love his movies just on a surface level but he is also I think he is very under a lot of people don't know who he is I mean he's director of brick director of looper he'll sued Brothers Bloom which is like one of them more it's like Edgar Wright level funny with its visual stylings I mean there's stuff that happens in the backgrounds of frames in that movie that made me laugh harder than I've left it dialog in movies and so like he's like the perfect person to follow JJ Abrams and take that kinetic filmmaking style and keep things light and fun but also develop these characters because like he's such a good world builder like the way looper opens up is like this person comes into a scene and like tries to steal something from some guy who lives on a bus in this like really broken-down part of town and the guy who just like comes out of his bus and just shoots the guy dead and it like that was like a that was a scene that I remember being like wow you just told me so much about the world that this movie is set in without saying anything whereas any other director would like like Christopher Nolan would have given you ten characters telling you about like how the world is lawless and like it would have been totally awful and so like I seeing how he's gonna take this story like I've fate that he's not just gonna make Empire like he's gonna take it in this weird new direction where there's this really big struggle between Luke and possibly his daughter Rhea you should talk about that you should talk about that I don't want ready to be Luke or Hans daughter I don't want that either I think the strength of the force in the original trilogy is that he's daughter she's quiet like the strength of like the four Simenson trilogy was that anyone could be a Jedi you could be a Jedi and that was undermined in the in the prequels words like this whole notion of lineage like oh the greatest Jedi's were obviously Skywalker's and now that most of Jedi are gone then it can only be a Skywalker and the fear is like you not you how you now have been so low and then you potentially have Rey Skywalker and I feel like that's just makes the world really small it would be cool to see another like I don't know maybe I should roll back on that statement but another like virgin like midi-chlorian birth just this idea that like Anakin was a child born that had bikes really strong force powers like that that could happen again for another like lineage that's not Skywalker I like the idea I like right yeah like if they roll back oh yeah I can flip it cuz I think they're that's what it looks like they're hinting at right is like you think oh he's gonna go to Luke and ask Luke to trainer and maybe then they'll set up some new Jedi Order but I think it's gonna go the other way it's gonna take ray showing power that like Luke it was like oh it's not even gonna be worth it like I'm not gonna be able to train you yeah and there's gonna be that and there's and then there's gonna be I do hope we get into some of the deeper stuff that like we'll still have to stay in the ancillary like novels and everything but I hope they address in the next one this idea of like everybody else in the galaxy like is kind of not sure what's going on like no one really totally knows what happened I mean they're how the Republic died is gonna be a big part of the next maybe two but yeah I mean that's where I'm hoping to see it go I think let's I think we're in a place which really start wrapping up so the final thought the question I want from everybody is what is the one big question you walked away from this film like wanting to know that could be comic may be made from I found a video game or a comic book or TV show or maybe the next film I made that was it for me I just like what destroying the entire Republic does like because like this this whole effort to like rebuild if it wasn't in this movie like you know you come out a Jedi basically went kind of winning the battle but then like you really start the process of like restoring peace to the galaxy and like they're what they've built up was just swept away like really really quickly and so like how that impacts I mean now you have this rebel resistance again essentially and whoever I don't think I don't know who they ship the bad guys to is it just gonna be Snoke and like kylo Ren and it what's left of the first-order like how many of them were there on Starkiller base like I I don't know who sets up is like we know the good people are and we know that their resources are severely impacted so who are the bad guys now because I'm not totally sure I guess for me is I guess for me is like with the reunion potentially or just a meeting of Ray and Luke I would love to see an exploration of whether or not the Jedi are are really a force for good in the galaxy because you touched on this and the prequels then you know was inadequate and it wasn't really effectively done but the Jedi are kind of useless like yes Luke defeated the Emperor and Darth Vader technically speaking but they helped precipitate the Clone Wars they helped bring about the downfall of the Republic and Luke just failed in bringing about a new Jedi Order because of his nephew like can this you know this whole notion that you know the force is good and evil black and white like the world is the world as a whole is really really gray and like everything else is very complicated and though the whole notion I was just like we have to hold on to the good it's hard to actually do and I don't think we've actually seen that yet and that's a really good opportunity to do that in the next movie I think maybe my biggest questions are just more of the back stories behind Finn and Rey I mean you talk about Ray but I'm really kind of curious about Finn cuz I'm not sure if there's more to his defection than just oh I saw my friend get killed and I was asked to slaughter a bunch of innocent villagers like that sucked also I was a janitor yeah but also and that leads me to my other thing it's like I feel like more people would leave then if that's what it took so then I feel like there must be something deeper into why he of all people left and maybe there's more to his backstory who knows I mean I it could just be that simple or it could not but I'd like to find out I think there's a reason they're right near the end we hold on him sort of being rehabilitated and I think there's a reason why we hold on him there and I think that ok that's why they're setting that up yeah I mean he's definitely coming with us for the next two movies so I'm sure there's gonna be more to his story too I think the one thing I'm wondering before the future is you make a film with such like exciting gender politics and then you have Colin Trevorrow probably the worst job I've ever seen with drastic world yeah in terms of that like two huge offensive wait yeah yeah they're like I I don't equate like this film and how excited I am to see that character evolve and grow and have her journey possibly end by with his direction it scares me terribly it's funny how much we have time up we have time to fix it how much we've talked about trying to get away from like the original now that we've sort of we've used a new hope again to like launched up this new part of Star Wars and like we want them to get away from some of that original stuff but like now we're seeing like Rian Johnson really could make like the the deep but still action heavy Empire kind of movie and then Carl and Trevor can come in and make like the schlocky Return of the Jedi and like but then I what are calling Trevor Rosie walks I wonder yeah the thing that we've all really avoided here we've treated this like it's just another trilogy and it's gonna be you know like what is it going to be like when we get to the end of it and Chris plant brought up we were talking this morning like a really good point like there's no end of this like a lot of people have written like the really smart line like we won't be alive to see the last Star Wars movement I like the implications of the line really hard in line I looked at my wife and I was like we're probably gonna take our kids to the like 10 years and we'll take our kids to like the continued sorry and like it's just gonna always probably live with us because it will probably keep making money no matter what and I hope it ends a trilogy at like Episode nine and like they just take a break for it ups attend do you like sixteen thousand spin-offs right but you're probably right yeah I mean I think that cycles I mean they're already doing spin-offs like oh I would say though that like this film if if this is true and we will have to start with us for the future it was a really great start like I think in the day I left the movie kind of like back and forth and if I really liked her if I was like okay with it but like as I like platform to start with and like I think the bridge seemed to like it felt like a bridge film into this world then like yeah we are gonna live in this role of Star Wars for a while and the world that they built was a great starting point so it's a great TV pilot which is a JJ honestly being blamed in Lindelof more okay and on that note I want to thank everyone for joining me I would thank you guys for watching at home if you want another take and completely different take our three brilliant film critics Emily Yoshida Brian Bishop and Tasha Robinson have another take on this on the verge cast you can check that out now the course is way more stuff a diverse calm I want to thank everyone individually Tom Connors is Tom to be Connors on Twitter Lauren Gretch is Lauren crush I'm Mona Roscoe noe call me Oh Pam and so Kane one thinks and again first calm way more Star Wars stuff way more non Star Wars stuff you might want to take a break from that stuff we'll help you out there too thanks for watching