Gadgetory

and we are back the verge live post apple ipad event ross miller is here with me good to see Olga and of course the lovely the delightful the handsome the new liebe sure did hellas hamburger yes not gosh Topolsky of course added their chief of the verge and generally nice guy unless you cross me and then I end you and your entire family and that would be anyone who left the stream anybody taking a brain you're dead anyhow we're back a post post apple ipad event uh no big surprise is really no uh and and I kept my tie on yeah so not a big surprise there either team tai ellis you just watch the event you're known around the office as the app man what's your take on this what's your take on Apple's like the first thing I thought of was that old commercial from my thick 2007 of Mac versus PC where they say I can do everything right out of the box and for whatever reason when iOS came out they decided to strip all those apps out of it and charge for them independently so with this new version they made everything free they made Mavericks free everything's back in the box they want everybody to be on the same playing field you know so that was my takeaway yeah I think that's a good thing I mean software making money from software doesn't mean anything to Apple it's all about the hardware at least for now right and what they're doing well making money on the app's but making money in their stores is a major part of their business right I'm talking about their own well yeah making money off of pages right that small beans really fugly final cut is not a big so why are they charging five dollars for pages when they can just give it away now they can say hey not that we're necessarily worried about the surface but you're in a Cyrano one of the few microsoft stores they say this is a productivity machine you got office on there now whole can say the same thing right they can say we give you pages and numbers and all this other stuff that's that's a it's plug its plugin it's a very holistic view like you're giving it back to you guys for free yeah only that but they're like they're leaning on the I cloud infrastructures like okay we can do this you can also view on your iPad don't have your laptop you can collaborate it's a big deal now you can collaborate with right yeah is it real time collaboration yeah it remains to be seen they don't really go into them they didn't go into a demo of that yeah they already and of all things he did not demo yeah well I mean I demo it briefly but it wasn't but they really just showed hey look you can add collaborators we can change a text right but but I don't know how that compares to something like like Google Drive or Google Docs real-time collaboration they did say it was the most requested feature though for I work for web beta yeah so yeah I'm not try any more likely how this works a little bit i'm sure that's exactly what video that doesn't that doesn't surprise me at all because you know their competitor is leaps and bounds ahead in that department and i think people are looking at it saying like look i want to use all your stuff i want to use it on my iPad but then i get to the web and ? where i want to collaborate and ? now that ? is hopefully less of a ? terrible way to end that oh by the way but uh what else what about the new ipads any feeling a big i think small and not even yeah as much as he took romantic it resting behind a pencil and you couldn't see if that was the idea yeah everybody's like how Apple made a really nice a nice pencil I thought there is a stylish not a second you are you I mean just what do you have to have an iPad right now I have a mini yeah would you upgrade to the the red nominee oh yeah uh so when I was thinking about getting a mini I didn't use the ipad 3 much because it was so heavy and it would fall on my face and yes the great eras terrified if you're if you're a horny like if you're like laying down you've got it like you're doing this or even if you let so I would like lay down with and do this I've dropped it on my chest but your newsstand just dance my seriously actually it's frightening yeah it's not cool so anyhow that you were saying so I was saying so that's why I got the mini and one of things about the mini as I did a lot of reading on it and to be honest like I felt I felt kind of like a whiner but I did notice all the time i used my iphone there's so much that well then its lot smaller but that it wasn't a Retina display yeah uh he's very noticeable that was the one thing I kind of freaked I love the nice that stuff but it definitely is particularly for reading he's obvious I mean my assumption is obviously our guys are out there right now my assumption is we're going to see some shots and close-up shots of that it's gonna look incredible remember right we're talking about retina resolution on a relatively smaller just actually the same amount of pixels yeah right right so the pixel density is going to be higher right and uh my guess is that's gonna look incredible right on display of that size is it the same thickness and weight is the old iPad Mini I missed that detail I'm not sure they have is what's in the what is the liveblog say only we had Emily we could find out oh that we can find out the site that has a good live blog yes apple com no but but regardless the the body type has not changed right for the ipad mini main space essentially the same body type is it is it's internship they say it's thinner and lighter i don't think they do they don't they do they do live the size that is now 326 pixels per inch yeah same density on 23 26 the same number as the as the iphone at the i5 the 326 or the five guys yeah pretty close it 316 I think the previous the 3.5 inch display was 326 I could be wrong yup 326 at any rate um you know I think I have to say they spent a lot of time on the software mm-hmm no snow big surprises the the freebie stuff was definitely someone surprising Mavericks for free was a little bit surprising right they did not I thought there might be some final cut stuff for pros there was no mention of it there may be something since there's apple will roll out some of these updates without talking about it on stage especially for the pro stuff Mac Pro came in at a price point that I think was where we expected it to be 99 um sigler said he was betting for two thousand well he was way off oh yeah that's the guy that a gene that's the guy that owes me money they way off that guy should not be allowed to guess about anything um but I think overall the event was there's a lot of geeky stuff it was geeky stuff well I mean it's funny cuz apples gone a little bit further into this spec kind of feeds and speeds I mean I remember you know I remember being at an event watching Phil Schiller on stage making fun of other companies talking about feeds and speeds right you know yeah they used to downplay the idea of that stuff and now they're really playing it up I mean I think part of it has to do with the consumer consumer's have become a lot more knowledgeable about what it means to have a cpu or a high-resolution display but I think also you know when you think about how you compete with these devices the changes are incremental and their incremental between companies devices you know the offering of the surface vs the ipad when it comes to hardware you know you that's the way you differentiate you know they're all tablets the Nexus 7 is a little tablet the ipad minis a little tablet obviously there's a better software offering for the ipad mini but how do you differentiate you have to start to talk about specs throws because they're not adding their increasingly getting to know their consumers better yeah yeah and it's a broader consumer base ya mean people i think last year we're saying crap is the mac pro damn right like I love my big I rhenium tower well that's a difference that's a different type of consumer right so that's back and they talked about the specs for the back book air but guess what they did for regular people they drop the price by two hundred dollars right which means a lot right to a lot of people there's still hold out to say I don't want to make is I mean I'm they're still in a price range that's not gonna compete with the low end you're not gonna be with Chromebooks they're not going to compete with cheap 500 or pc laptops like they're just not going to do that they are going to compete for that thousand-dollar laptop market they are going to compete for the big the big and small I mean you have to think about the actually the price point what is the price point now for the ipad mini it's 299 the low-end one yeah the original rub it 30 bucks I mean you're still it's still no no no not a night for them no it's two night there's no way to drop to that much no it's 299 for 299 and 399 yes okay and so they dropped it 30 bucks right but you know the competition is at 229 the kindle is the kindle fire they sell a version of the kindle fire for a hundred and thirty-nine that has an HD display right yeah last kindle fire HD yeah and you know but you have to remember consumers they're not they are looking at that price point they're saying well i can spend three hundred dollars or i could spend 139 or 199 that does make a difference to them but you know clearly Apple has an advantage in the ecosystem yeah and they played up every single time you know if you give 13 billion dollars developers they have 425 thousand apps that are actually specialized custom designed for the ipad these are not the android apps have been like expanded to fill screen this is james like for that experience and the kapil drives at home every single time you're not just getting a bigger iphone you're getting something unique yeah well and you know it is definitely unique thanks to the developers and and i think increasingly unique thanks to Apple's first party apps which are clearly they're putting some some effort behind and strength behind now they want to make those a feature of these things they want to say we offer this sweet like you were saying Ellis but so let's talk overall for a second I want to talk about the event uh none of the surprise of the people were expecting of course can you really expect a surprise sort of an oxymoron there isn't it the invite said we got a lot to cover I think a lot of people were thinking cover yeah yeah i mean i would even say hi nicely i even tweeted that you know the cover idea can be really powerful for apple right i mean i still think i gotta say you know i have a surface sitting here there are things i like about this the thing that I like most about it is this the utility of this these covers with the with the keyboards on I mean they're actually really really useful at everybody I know who has a regular-sized iPad everybody I see on a plane or when a lot of keyboard they have a logitech keyboard adapter and they they all kind of herb not that great you did a big run down of keyboards in jus yeah and the thing is there are a few that stood out and one of them was this origami keyboard holder thing which has been I remember that brought in by was it for the surface to they have the exact same foldables kindle HDX as a kindle HDX that's right and i think it would be a good place for apple to jump in and build something of their own and i'll read at a premium price and make so much money the Argent's on their first party accessories are insane no i mean add to me it seems like a no-brainer it's like first off you squash the whole concept of the service if like right if you were even remotely where it which I don't think apple is but you're even remotely worried you add the iwork suite and they say look you really want to do a bunch of email and you you type it up a storm and you love having a physical keyboard we made a cover for you and it's an advanced technology blah blah charge 100 bucks for it or 130 bucks for it make it for you know 15 or whatever 20 it whatever would cost their margins would probably pretty good on something like that you know and it just seems like there's a demand for from our users I mean I've seen ya you know it's anecdotal but it's pretty strong that users who are have iPads want this kind of stuff it's not like apple doesn't make apple keyboards anyway right I guess is somebody new to worry about cuz like and this is enough that was interesting there's a chart but they showed ipad sales he said iPad sold 170 million they show this line chart but the thing was at the top for the last two or three quarters these sales have kind of slowed it's not the exponential rate it has been so this like the iPad buyers market seems to be sung at least a little bit right now which thing that has never happened before it seems and the tablet market self is growing much faster so they're actually at some point kind of seating some the dominance they've had yeah the usage doesn't seem to be seating any dominance though there's no saying what what percent of it 81 1157 what is they will spend on tablets what is the usage what were they how are they rated use it i don't know i think in past time they've used web usage let anything get exactly so is that the metric its web usage I think that's what it's been I think it's a fairly you know it's not unless it's debatable but it's a different kind of metric what you want to know is time on device you know web I mean I hardly ever browse the web when i'm using a tablet right i spend time reading i spent time in a pocket or into paper or reading a book or reading magazines or reading feedly sometimes okay very casually i'll play a game i really dont watch video and miss sometimes I listen to music but but the thing is so what is use you know the shopping statistics are absolutely off the charts yeah right they don't even compared to android tablets for holiday shopping for right the percentage of people that are shopping on tablets is increasing and most of them are doing it on ipad so i think that that's like a scenario that's becoming so so important yeah so I mean I don't think anybody's offered a really good alternative I mean in terms of the ecosystem and completeness I mean I think that look android tablets are still getting there the surface the one that is really competitive the surface RT that I consider to be the competitor is still lacking as far as ecosystem is concerned big time and and so you just have you know as it and then you get kindle they don't really talk about numbers i think that amazon feels like they're doing quite well they've talked about their they've talked about their market share being thirty percent of the tablet or something thirty percent of the tablet market but but I don't know how that I don't know how that's possible if Apple's numbers are accurate you know so all this is a bit of a guessing game and all these numbers are a little bit you know sort of questionable to some degree but I'm inclined to believe Apple when they say they've got a big-ass market share with iPads right because that's what I see people using and a big-ass market share of like people are using them yeah yeah well I don't get this i don't think this idea that people buy them and i use them so they're talking about a specific type of use well i mean like i'm a shy guy with the nexus 7 on the train today playing playing a game what is the game where you run and jump tired dog kennel run temple run he's playing some variation of temper on you know i see people playing temple run on all sorts of things that wouldn't factor into usage hmm in those metrics if they're just saying about web browsing a shower shopping right so there's different uses but i believe that that Apple's still far and away the preferred tablet it is and although it's just it's just not perhaps alarming I'm sure they're kind of thing about the IDC numbers second quarter 2013 they actually had lower growth needed year-over-year you know this other interesting note here localytics tablet usage I want to use this kind of jumping off point the ACT amazed out seventeen percent of all the Iowas tablets being used your ipad 2 is apparently still thirty-eight percent yeah there's a huge ship well the only will grow thank you guys by the way uh so the the ipad mini retina depth is actually it's a little bit bigger right and a little bit heavier and the previous mini Adam to Pascal or Pascal I'm sorry i'm not saying that right lets us know that it's point 07 heavier point 01 I'm something inch thicker yep yeah so so you know that kind of makes sense who knew display probably a slightly larger battery i would assume and you know here's the thing it's a cool update yeah i think a lot of it we're gonna buy it this certainly isn't I mean this is Apple exerting its place and its dominance in tablets mm-hmm you know the software it looks good I don't get that excited about productivity software as I said during the line they seem to love it who the demos oh yeah there I was very excited me well Tim Cook is the numbers guy when he sees a spreadsheet he gets very excited wants fireworks in it he added that's right I'm sure why not but have a lot to cover you don't spend 5 10 works make well they didn't have him I they actually have that much recovered no no an apple TV no I wat I think we knew these things were going to happen there's no apple television set no I watch they didn't get into any new product categories this year Tim Cook had made mention of exciting new product categories there's some debate about whether he specifically was talking about getting into them or just that they're excited about new product categories but unless they hold another event this year Apple is not getting into any new product categories in any significant way let's also look at some of the stuff they usually mention that didn't come up there no ipods at all ya know I've no bigger iPad we explain how this rumor no Apple TV set-top box or condom distribution deals no matter for that no games like which is not as well iphone famous our friend than any blade they could have shown off some gaming but I think it's a well established fact that gaming is a thing that you do on the iPad I don't feel like they have to hit people over the head with it you know they did for four pages for nobody I think that's what they wanted to sell I mean I do think there was a little bit of a response to Microsoft in there you think so there's certainly respond teta cup certainly response to google the google doesn't sell their stuff on productivity they sell their stuff the productivity is kind of this for google is this it's there it's increasing its you know the growth is obvious that people are adopting for its prime e we use them internally for all of our a you know all of our Fox and Virg right communication and collaboration but you know I but look I still use keynote when I need to put together a presentation right what I don't use this power point and you know office is the one place where where windows and microsoft has have had this you know incredible foothold right this is almost a stranglehold on people and you still see people there like I can't move off of office I can't move out of these like these complications all right but i do think apple's saying are starting to say we're here and we want to be a player we want to beacon taken seriously as a prof as more than just a you know a cool device that your kids use or that you use to watch movies they did the same thing with the iphone I mean the iphone started out is this obviously very closed device that had no apps they opened it up to apps and it was seen as like this incredibly go cool games and you know cute little to-do list or whatever and I think pretty quickly they said look these are real productivity devices you can get stuff done with them but and I think they're saying the same thing they're also saying we're competin against a done with them but we're competitive and we're going to be competitive by offering this stuff I wonder how much we are thinking about that in advance when you look at the iphone i mean they're obviously lots of crazy quotes that people said about the iphone and how they predicted it would do but i don't think anybody predicted that it would be the the phone that accountants today are provided by their IT departments right top four accounting firms right five years later I don't think anybody predicted that yeah so it's interesting to me maybe how much they're thinking about how much they want these to be productivity devices I mean if you look at what airline is it that thats hanging out iPads and you see it is a very odd job yeah I think it's Delta maybe I know there was something about the service they're giving services to people on oh right American Society iPads this is these same productivity at Williams yeah can you climb ships and also now read about pilots love to my flying games when they're I think with the controls the last thing I want to see is my pilot about to do a stomp pad just give it a system yeah very or do you want to see that because then he's getting in abysus that's true but yeah no I mean the absolutely I mean that's a great point and I think that they have replaced blackberry mm-hmm and a lot of pleasantly not out of their reach no to disrupt no big business the way that they have I mean I talked to some of my friends and they're still trying to get their company on you know windows 2010 and or something they're like Word 2010 and Excel 2010 and it's years old and that probably came out in 2009 since it's called 2010 and it just takes ages and ages and ages to do that and it's moving so slowly that maybe Apple thinks it can make a difference what I'm interested in is where they're dipping their toes into web like I work and clearly this is a place that people want to do word processing and key not making and editing their documents and I'm interested to see where they're going to do that with their other apps and services obviously it's a challenge for them let's talk about that for a second so obviously we know I work apps for OS 10 and 4 obviously I feel like for the iOS devices what can you actually do with the web version or if you had a windows machine what could you actually do to interact with pages they said it worked with Internet Explorer I think it's meant to be pretty much identical I me it was rebuilt from the ground up to work on the web in for collaboration apparently yet when you look at something like Maps it's probably using a lot of graphics acceleration to do a lot of the flyover stuff right um but I mean google earth looks pretty sweet in the browser too and maybe that's just not their expertise but they're still focusing a lot on the local apps on your machine that's still there bread butter but it's cool to see them trying out new stuff on the web and actually making changes quickly like they seem to have done by adding collaboration just in the last few months right I think you know it's a long road for them you know the web has always been a challenge for Apple and it's always been a channel for them to get that together they've been slow moving you know they have you know people forget about this I mean I've we don't obviously but I love you forget when mobileme was first launched it was seen as this big push into the web big push into services connected services and and you know it was a disastrous launch Steve Jobs famously fired a bunch of people after it and but but since then they learned a lot of lessons they've been they've been moving i think in baby steps the apple maps a situation and coupled when they release the iphone 5 was a similar had a similar feel to it where they rushed into something and didn't have all their ducks in a row and you saw like an immediate backlash from people and I to this day like nobody trusts Apple maps that I know and and frankly nobody I know invests in or trust I cloud has something where they like this is I use this I rely on it I know it's going to work for everything I know what it does so that right exactly and so in so they have moved slowly but they haven't done anything that is to you know they need to move the needle in some way they need to say we're giving you something you can't get anywhere else and we're doing it better than the experience you have anywhere else and they still haven't shown me look their desktop apps are incredible their iOS apps are incredible but are they for something like word processing for pages how much better does it have to be for me to not use the thing that is ubiquitous that I can collaborate with people on that is innately connected to my email and my calendars and my contacts you know you have to buy into the whole thing and in order to do that you have to have a seamless offering that not only is as good but in some way better than the thing that you're already using and I think that's where you see with Microsoft the way they've been able to just hang on with office is okay yes it's climbing I think it's a look office in general i think is terrible to use I think it's overly complex I think it is you know archaic in some ways in the way it functions obviously very powerful a lot of the features of those apps are very powerful and and businesses have just plugged into it and they're there so how do you change those attitudes how do you move the needle how do you tell people mobile was easier here's why blackberry had some footprint there in in mobile devices for for large companies windows mobile a little bit we're talking five six seven years ago the iphone technology changes the phones from foots f five years ago are you totally useless you can't use them six years ago you can't use them you can't do anything with them they literally don't function at this point so what happens you've got to upgrade your devices once you have to upgrade your devices you know the software is in some way secondary when it comes to mobile it's not like they were relying on their blackberries it's like they were relying on their blackberries for every single thing that had to do if they saw a better device some other opportunity like oh we can make our warehouse run smoother because now we have a device that has real applications right I think there was an obvious window there you have to upgrade the hardware the software had done I think nothing impressive except for blackberry security and email which obviously and push right well once you take that out of the equation and if Apple saying we're secure and you know it's Apple it's not like they have a track record of being insecure unsecured you know I think there was a there was a way to turn that over with with with desktops and with systems that are hugely integrated with you know windows XP running office across a thousands tens of thousands of computers want to ask you you're describing a lot of these a lot of these areas that Apple disrupted with the iphone that people didn't necessarily expect when you look at TV do you feel like that's coming soon do you feel like the rumors are mounting or maybe waning a little bit because it's been years that people have been saying it and and when I look at my TV every day or so that's what voicemail looked like to me before on my phone got to press all these but no we gotta hold that hold that thought we have dieter oh dude dinner is on the ground live from the apple areas dieter bohn welcome welcome to the version yeah how are you look great first off I just want to say fantastic very sunny there in in San Francisco what's going on give us your take on today's event I gotta say I think the event felt a little low-key there weren't any really huge surprises i guess if there was any surprise it was that so much of the software was free but you know the new iPads were basically we expected got basically expected with the with the new macbooks so i didn't walk out of there feeling totally shocked and amazed by anything is there is our product that you saw that you feel like is a slam dunk for them today i mean it is the air you know is this going to spike a whole new rash of ipad purchases or if you're thinking of purchasing ipad you were already a get the newest one and this is just the next one that's that's available to you do you think this moves the needle at all huh i think it moves it a little bit the i think Phil Schiller said on stage that this is one of these products where you actually need to pick it up and send it to really feel how it is and the ipad air man that is one pound they say and it's super light it feels completely different and so I'm really you know I've been using the ipad mini for a long time and I assume coming into this event that i would get retina mini but after holding the ipad air i am actually a big believer a guy and just went right for it i think that i might go back to the full-size iPad and release real classy did you get a sense from people who were there obviously you're talking the other journalists who are there and and clearly you're talking to Apple reps though they're not going to express this was there any sense from other people around you that there were that people expected more here that they were thinking that there'd be something else a lot of journalists were you know laying odds down that we might see something crazy a lot of people really hoping for a 4k display panel I kind of wasn't wasn't a big believer in that and so nobody really expected anything else but everybody was hoping for a little bit more instead we got something that was just kind of by the numbers from a blow so the software they say they showed ah sorry go ahead I was I was just going to transition to the software i think that moving i work to completely free on new devices and making mavericks completely free is it's really interesting and they put it in context of competing against Microsoft in office which charges I think it's ninety-nine bucks a year and so I was thinking wow this is totally crazy and new but then I also remembered oh wait I use Google Docs which is free all the time and so on the one hand yes they're they're giving you a better deal than what Microsoft doesn't it on the other hand I mean market is changing and stuff like oh and productivity on tribal discretion over the top starts moving toward sorry and I think Apple attention of Annapolis aligning itself more closely with Google but it isn't my purse all that stuff sorry we asked audion if you there but but do you did you get a chance they showed off a little bit of this collaboration this I work collaboration can you talk about it at all did you get a better impression of what that would entail is that how similar is that to Google Docs collaborative editing well you know I don't know I mean they showed it running on the desktop so I can't say if it's going to work as well as a web version or on the iPad I mean the google doc collaboration is really second to none and so I be kind of surprised if it worked as well as that but when they were demoing it on stage you know the changes were instantaneous you know across the stage on whatever their connection was and it seemed to work fairly well but the big question is is will it be is full featured as some of the stuff you can get in other sweets with like full commenting and revision history and all the rest it looks pretty but whether or not it's actually like useful to be productive is a different thing I have to use it them I do think it's a marketing play any part you begin marketing I know very very people who use those apps you say use keynote and I don't know a ton of normal people who use those apps on a daily basis and I think that it is now easy for them to say look we've got a productivity suite that's free on this device to ya all right dieter I know you have to get back to work there as a matter of fact I'm if you don't get back to work you're going to be in huge trouble but I appreciate you taking the time and any any any final thought here from you from today's event my final thought is the thing I said at the outset honestly this was this is a by-the-numbers event it'll big surprises i don't think it's disappointing unless you're you were hoping for more I kind of was but you know Apple turned out some new stuff but three degrees and sunny again in San Francisco dieter thanks so much thanks so much for joining us and a great job today right it really is god I went way into newscaster voice there for 173 degrees in sunny and unusual and Cupertino now back to what was your name I was doing before we started I had a vacant clay clay Parker clay clay clay what clay buster yes right clay buster anyhow uh yeah it really was though I have to say was by the it was by the numbers by the books for Apple but we shouldn't be surprised about that anymore I mean we would you know all of these events you go into this incredible mental high even your men the thing about Apple is your imagination runs wild because every so often they'll pull something out and it's just like whoa did not see this coming did not know this was going to happen that has been increasingly not the case in the last few years if I'll just pray for the one yeah thing and I think I mean I think we I think we are remembering the apple of two thousand six and two thousand seven and two you know like but even post iphone we knew the ipad was going but i remember going on these hunts you know we'd get sent we'd get sent images of some weird blurry image you know the leaks were not as specific and not as obvious as they are now you couldn't just get the backing from the new ipad shipped to you from china you know we used to get these blurry photos and we'd be trying to decipher you know doing running filters on them trying to figure out isn't real is if a like where is this from what's the exif data i like doing all of this investigation about the leaks and the stuff that we were seeing you know we had the whole thing with with gizmodo and the iphone 4 and the pictures that we've gotten and all this stuff where we were we didn't know if it was real we didn't know if it was if it was fake there was a huge amount of excitement and hype around it but that is fewer and further between now and then there are two things to get to that one like history is always more interesting because we missed the times in between right like ipad was about twenty ten iphone was 2007 things weren't always interesting in every event in between but we can go look back and say they did five great things in five years right sometimes he won't get as big years even with steve jobs were off years yeah anything is ever since they said we're doubling down on secrecy they've done everything but I mean I would say I mean you know it is incredible that that the the type of leak we're seeing now is as close to you could put most of the thing together right before apple announces definitely I mean people had yeah right you don't have the name of people had the casing they had the the housing for the screen they had all sorts of bits of this thing basically put together so one thing I want to talk about and so I think somebody just tweeted me about it no touch ID mm-hmm on the iPads obviously they're manufacturing these these sensors these fingerprint sensors I they're putting them in iphone 5s is is this just a thing where they said is this kind of like Siri where they said it's only going to be for our phone for the flagship phone and we're not going to bring it to our other devices why not bring touch ID if you're going to buy the five-hundred-dollar six-hundred-dollar seven hundred dollar ipad with all of your work information on it all of your sensitive everything all your name is tech stuff yeah why not why is the security less stringent for such a high-end device do you have any answer for that's a good question I mean I mean that seriously I think it's worth asking because yeah you know Apple made a big deal about it they said we've got this new innovation you know you talk about the innovative Apple here's Apple saying we've got this innovation it's a better sensor it's faster it's more secure we're doing all this stuff where we save that data in a special place we don't let anybody have access to it the Enclave the Walt Walt community and no doubt they could fit it in the big iPad it ok that's a room for the Enclave the bigger even in the red mother's room for the Enclave no Enclave no fingerprint sensor why is that with Syria they could blame it on the processor ostensibly yeah but with this there's no there's no blaming it because it's the same system yeah and these are essentially the retina is the m7 by the way I have a look at the specs yet is the m7 in the in the retina mini as well if that up yeah can you check on it but so okay I don't think a saline either acting no no it says there it's in the big one yeah it's in the air hmm you know it I just think the question is you put everything else in there widely the fingerprint sensor off you know don't you want me to be secure don't you care about my privacy on my pages yeah you're my pages yeah I'm working on a new airplane for Boeing I was wireframing i was showing eyes got a secret you know that I don't wanted people know where the fuselages next thing you know I lost my iPad no fingerprint sensor doxxed everybody has my Boeing plans do have you do not find my ipad which something Google Android only recently got ya at least in a first-party capacity ya know that's true but idea one idea is if you look at ipads a lot of people use them with their entire families and i know you can do maximum of 10 fingers touch ID some people attacked a way to do 50 believe it or not yeah with touch ID but maybe the actual sunshiny seems like great for a family actually yeah i mean what they should do mean apple doesn't want to do this because they want everybody i'm just talking about making sure it just works right with one person they could be a lot more a lot more competent dude how many families actually share an ipad thats I say that's psychotic I wouldn't let anybody touch my ipod I won't even let Laura touch it you can't you can't share like app store like all right you have basically have to say like okay here's the app store along and do whatever you want I'm you can put parental controls on it but then like as the parent you have to go in and I mean it just doesn't really so the ipad mini does heavy m7 coprocessor the motion processor so we're like the elevated Apple quote gizmodo yes do they really yeah somebody just tweeted me about it i missed that completely that's a huge deal yeah is gizmodo gonna get out of the timeout or whenever I'm as bad as already there's another one okay yeah so let's catch everybody up so uh you know years ago when the iphone four before the iphone 4s released there was this phone floating around we publish the pictures when we were at engadget we publish the photos of it the next day it gives moto have gotten the device I can't believe I'm telling this story but it's interesting because they showed a quote from them and they ran a huge story a huge feature on this thing and it turned out that this phone had been lost in a bar I can't believe I'm telling this story phone up in life if you don't know how the why are you watching the phone had been lost in a bar in California somebody found it and then they sold it to gizmodo and and then you know Apple freaked out there like this is our device though they didn't say publicly they contacted gizmodo right here's here's the post actually land and they said will you send this back to us and I think what happened I don't remember all the details but I think like basically they were like we'll send it back gives was like we'll send it back to you if you send us something saying this is this is the next iPhone ce1 confirmation received jobs are things yeah so they didn't like that no the next thing that happened is that basically Apple had police it is insane now that I think of it Apple had police kick in the door of Jason Chen who was the editor of his moto LT wasn't there he was out they like kicked in his door and took his computers and stuff right and arrested him at some point or something i don't remember he was a resident I know they inhale and then I think there was a lawsuit with with Gawker it was an insane it was an insane situation was like but the long and short of it was it ended up gizmodo was like band and Steve Jobs actually talked about it he was at it edit all things D they do their d events and he talked about on stage with Walt and kara and was like very clear that he kind of was hated those guys and was really personally upset about it and wanted to blacklist them for as long as there's Jason Chen showing off the phone and this by the way when we saw this with nobody knew for sure we assume that it was real but you had no way of knowing it was a radical design it was a crazy story I mean it's probably one of the biggest maybe the biggest thing that gives has ever done I mean until that hash tag video what you got I'm kind of crazy it was a great Hellion temper like that yeah the Timberlake Valon thing but but anyhow it's really interesting notable that they quoted them today that's a big deal that's a big deal for Apple I mean they don't they tend their they're out there a company that holds grudges and also that like that was back at a time we didn't know what that from for look like at this point everything leaks so early can't blacklist every yeah right exactly uh very interesting very shocking what was the quote does anybody know what the quote was I must well we were wrong yes I think hyperbolic like mind blown or the best laptop ever I think it was the best laptop other macbook air yeah well that's cool maybe we'll start to see gives guys at these events again about time I mean it's been how long I 740 807 yea its to long we didn't kill it sounds ridiculous I'm holding garage 9 I find holding grudges is unhealthy to Harper all that you know get life together let the go you're an easygoing how many easygoing guy i'm not a grudge holder only very specific instances do I hold grudges you get a really really screw me over let me ask some talk about Michael yeah did you expect anything updates of that other than like a few things to talk about it awesome left up no I'm not something they just introduced new macbook airs I don't think apples in the habit of saying hey it's three months ago we deduce immac will guarantee now here's a new macbook air and when do they introduce them at the WWDC very researched Lagos is that right yeah yeah i mean that's that's sick not even six months ago right so i think that nothing was surprising the mac pro updates not some macbook pro updates not surprising where we are now dead on notice if this was the case beforehand but definitely as of today we're down to only one non-retina laptop it's just a 13-inch macbook pro by the 11 inch the 11 inch winning me not retin a laptop that the arrows oh the pro the pros yeah yeah we're down to just 113 that's like the ipad 2 of their lab it is likely at the ipod classic a 13-inch macbook what is it is a hundred our price difference who would buy who would buy this old 13-inch the core i5 like the same people who are saying i'm not gonna spend a hundred more on my phone even though i use it all day 42 everything you a disk drives for a few more years right i mean it seems crazy to me that they would even continue selling that thing for a hundred dollar price difference yeah you know why don't you say we're getting rid of the old one I guess they want to sell out of their old style hey what about the ipad to give the ipad 2 I don't understand can we talk about that raise I please so I bet to did they change the connector on it no is this the same 30 pin can we just I just want to be doubly sure i'll double check I do not be sure so it's a it's the it's two years old mm-hmm it's the second iPad ok we're on now the fifth iPad yeah probably magnitude slower and oh yeah non-retina non-retina where is it can i see the text box where the tech specs this is a class yeah tax back center at 85 chip a five trips the two chicks behind mm-hmm uh wonder 75,000 absa course they do now we know that design I say the connector plates grow up its cross scroll down over via scroll down okay what's in the bus dock connector to USB cable so it's the old 30-pin connector hmm for how much is it four hundred dollars for no same prize is almost promise well I say it's almost offensive that Apple is still selling this it is I guarantee you performances awful with ios7 people I know who have older devices have updated to iOS 7 my mother emailed me she has an iphone 4s and was like so pissed about iOS 7 its performance on her phone she said crashes and it's been slow people on iphone fours people on ipad tues I mean the performance is not good for iOS 7 so I feel like it's almost insulting to people to say spend four hundred dollars on this heavily on respect old ass device that does it isn't even compatible with new accessories right because in new cables it just seems crate why even sell it then they just need to get rid of them there's there's a jo jeeta discounted they're like 200 bucks that's what they have done is that we're gonna sell these for two hundred dollars just get rid of them I mean they want to get if they want yeah what did even more people buying apps on the platform now they're stuck and they're gonna get next year's I've been if I mean that is that it no no one's gonna spend 400 hours on I hear you mean and then buy another one next year they made it cheaper they made it cheap yeah like they still have the ipod classic this is the device that will never die no I ipad2 doesn't make any sense like if you look at though if you look at that if you look at the lineage of these things all right why not just say we're getting rid of the ipad to our new low end is the ipad is he knows the ipad mini yeah you know what take that take the ipad for and price it down the problem is there's not enough differentiation between the ipad 4 and the ipad air the truth is like the screen resolution is the same the processor is faster in the new one but probably not you know noticeably faster between those two devices you know the body type is different people don't really care about that had lightning connector so I feel like what's going to actually happen is they needed to draw a big line somewhere instead of value perspective 499 for the air vs 3 99 for the two which is years old is just really does all know it's good it's so disproportionate it's insane and I think that I think that you know it's confusing to me but I know maybe Apple has a reason somebody suggested on Twitter that this is an educational government education pricing but I don't see why you couldn't do the same thing I mean he'll you could take the ipad 3 design and do the same thing right you know it it'd be more compatible and faster I mean or the ipad 4 I mean there's no way update the cable I mean they were selling the ipad 4 for a base price of 499 up until today right right now the air replaces it so presumably they've been making that design and have a bunch of them sitting in a warehouse somewhere had if I'm sitting a warehouse somewhere and you don't have these sylvans on the ipad 2 or they just have so much support no I think they're still making them you know uh it does it does kind of create some pricing pressure though yeah you know yeah what happened all at the ipad 3 your where all the ipad 3 diabetic the lost Renata's with anything they they updated the ipad 3 early right he didn't take a beer it was what six months to something like that you only wanted make it in it you're the worst soccer ever he bought the three and then they gave her the x and they give the lightning yeah yeah miss Kean wessling was not even a year yeah I'm it was unfortunate as a third the ipad to type antigen was a big leap it was the retina really it was a cold and then they just changed little little dock connector yeah it was a cold no cover we want I wanted to cover I wanted something yeah so now we have hands-on with these devices I just want to talk about what's going on if you're not looking at the site verge calm which you should be don't be insane we have hands on posts with the ipad mini with retina display the new ipad air and do if we done the laptops yet we doesn't we've done the laptops yet no though the laptops are not going to be I mean their laptops running Mavericks this is interesting though t-mobile is offering new iPad users 200 megabytes of free monthly data he was doing anything you can't like get people onto its network spend a lot of big plays this is a interesting incentive for people right well t-mobile is looking to incentivize people I guess there is a market so me just mention on Twitter there's a big market for 30 pin accessories maybe that explains some of the ipad to longevity someone else mentioned education market so buying a lot of people a lot of bulk orders of ipad 2 yeah 307 nine dollars people k through 12 yeah what should be i still you know it doesn't seem that compelling to me now listen what the mac pro a little bit yeah let's do that so i thought there would be a really thought there was going to be a final cut update I've been hearing rumors that they need to roll back some of that stuff filmmakers and everything yeah it's almost like maybe they just couldn't get it I feel like it just didn't yeah Justin Hammer for some reason they definitely we're leaning into that uh but Mac Pro what's your take on it I'm honestly that is almost peripheral that I think it's a great piece of hardware I'm kind of surprised they're not giving it a great display to go with it yeah it is surprising like a really cool black display right like where's the awesome you know they made it a crazy same design kind of display like a little bit more rounded or something that is you know crazy high resolution and what is though where's the resolution of the current 21 or 27 inch imac I think it's just above 1080p let's say no it's it's great it's really high is it it's something we're stupid and it'll be a good idea but I mean like if they're like they're boasting that you know we're not run saw the top arena for K displays but the thing is insane makeup Samsung's gonna make them right and they're each gonna cost you another few thousand well they don't Apple obviously doesn't make a 4k display if Neil I will learn i also got rid of the hard drive is no more no more fusion drives or what have you oh yeah right they called a clash oh so they got the fusion drives are out well i thought i said sure is that true just sure about that was fusion just a stopgap till they could get cheaper flash- kind of seems like it they made it out to be like a breakthrough mmm between you flash and you know you can do the stuff that you need right now right on flash and the rest there's also a new version of iOS 7 now today yeah madam Rose 256 flash-based storage yeah well they want people to go to external storage their whole deal is external storage I'm looking right you got Thunderbolt 2 which you can expand it with yeah I mean that's the idea you know look it's hard for me to get excited about the mac pro I know that people have been people who use mac pro's been clamoring for a new version I just wonder if this one is really serving their purposes if they really feel like this is what they've been waiting for so the display is 2560 x 1440 right the 27-inch and that's also for the cinema display that came out September 2010 rights people show so you know that's obviously extremely high res hmm but also big 27 inch monitor just just above it today p yeah but well I mean it's noticeably above it no save of like so I feel like going really hot i mean i think doing a 4k displays clearly within their reach they just didn't want to do it for some reason mm-hmm you know so we are at some point going to speak to David peers and appears he's rattling of the hands on he's doing some hands-on work right now we're going to talk to him I gotta say it like I'm kind of stunted not stunned but I guess a little disappointed that there wasn't any there's nothing meat-eor to really to discuss here you know it it's uh you know there was Grabbe the software was the focus to me where there's a hardware Mavericks I was which we are assured everything about yeah let me still focus a lot on my Mavericks demo they all they always do this but the but the price point is really notable free any was 29 I think last year 2029 left date the last version right now it's free I mean again this is apple's game right right they want people to use the software they don't really make money off of updating their OS that's not where you remember when iOS costs money to update on your ipod touch or what have you oh my god was right oh they had the thing wears away at all yeah what it was why you want you want my ten dollars I never wrote that was also like that was before the App Store really kind of hit it off like they get so much money and rep chair for that like to get people the latest version of iOS they can now get the you know 7030 split from app developers I've had the same thing for like the Mac App Store net like there that's a huge thing was last time you bought a nap outside the app store frosted on the app guy has almost a week purify actually do it pretty often being said i'm there a lot of limitations to App Store apps that's all there is to it so we actually have David Pierce live and direct from San Francisco David are you with us David David Pierce I here no there is a very sporty sporty peers looking company David you've you've wow that is still docket he's only on David you've handled you've handled pronto today tell us tell us your experience tell us how you feel about the new stuff i mean i think the the ipad air is is pretty remarkable I mean it's exactly what we thought it was going to be but it's it's so much smaller it's so much lighter it's it's big I mean it's really it's hilarious how much it's just a slightly bigger ipad mini newest i'm like that's a good thing is saying really light it's really nice and just feels really good in a way that but it's the old I matically feels like you know well put together as the ipad mini and now it does like but again it's you know I've been hearing some of your conversation it's it's exactly what we thought it would be it's really obvious it's sort of a normal move a lot of the pricing things they did here make absolutely no sense to me yeah the screen on the ipad mini looks amazing and i think in a lot of ways what's really sort of weird about today is that the ipad mini is in almost every way a more compelling device now than the ipad air is it it's I'm just I'm sort of confused by everything I saw today but both of the iPads feel really nice that's I can say at least that much yeah i mean look there's no question that Apple has every with each iteration made a more beautiful device battery life is is it the same on the air what is there what is their number now for the air compared to the ipad 4 do you know yeah it's 10 hours in both cases they showed it was funny they show the exact same slide the exact same like he's described the exact same way the they're the same as each other and they're the same they've always been it's just kind of the same did you have a chance while you've been there to play around with any of the iwork updates or any of the collaboration have you had a chance to look at that more in depth yeah i have only only briefly but one it which is just a wonderful thing about iOS 7 as the icons are mostly just really ugly but the apps themselves are wonderful the iMovie app is super simple and really well put together I even was using it on the mini which before has been kind of slow and not quite there but it's really visual it's really pretty now and there's this great they were just like flipping around a picture in picture and she was adding a bunch of different timelines all to the same video and it's really simple and works really really well I was actually really impressed in keynote you know keynote is keynote there's new animations and stuff but it's still sort of the same presentation tool as always all the apps are really nice and well put together but they were so much the focus of this event that was it was really surprising that they you know they spent longer demoing GarageBand than they did doing any kind of meaningful demos with any of the new hardware and it was clearly a recap of a lot of things that talked about before a lot of things are they're really nice like Mavericks adding an extra hour of battery life to your existing pc is a great thing like good job APPL that's a smart way to do it but to spend all this time on software and then kind of get to the iPad call it something new I was sure they were building towards something called the ipad pro that was a meaningfully different and better and more expensive in some way and then it just kind of ended but haven't they haven't they opened the window for an iPad pro here haven't they set a kind of precedent with the naming convention do you think that this is in the cards now does it feel like an iPad pro make sense i mean how much more pro can an ipad get after the after the air i mean it's really good question of screen size right because they mean until they have a new processor unless I'm missing something yeah I mean I it's a fair question I mean we were talking to some of the Apple people in as you're waiting in line to get in this morning and we were talking about you know the rumors and stuff and were like oh so the big iPads coming and one of the leading they really just listened the big iPad we already have that it's called the macbook air and so like this is this is not a thing that they're either you know they're either doing the classic misdirection thing which is possible and given the fact that they changed the name like why would you change the name from ipad 2 ipad air if you're not going to add something else to this lineup it just doesn't make any sense but they also they spent a lot of time like with the sly surface burns talking about how bad microsoft is and they had that hilarious graphic where there's all the lines intertwined where they were like nobody else knows what they're doing and we're really terrific so I don't know it's it's this weird they're saying everybody else is doing it wrong but then there's this big sort of obvious gaping hole now where that kind of product would live so I don't know it's gonna be interesting yeah alright well look I know that you have you have to get back to work I think that you've got several thousand more hands-on videos that you're going to participate in before the day is out David thank you for taking the time I'm sure you're very tired you guys got up at like five in the morning or something I'm sure you're very tired thanks for taking the time and we'll see you back in New York very soon another interesting point is that the ipad mini and the ipad air's the two iPads are now on parity in terms of what's inside finally it's specs and design too because we have it's like there's this convergence I feel that's like it's clear that they see the the and I'm sure that they have data that makes sense that this is how it needs to be but they see the mini and the air now that iPads as separate their separate use cases separate users there right well think which seems weird to me but indeed um cuz like they actually show that it made a big point we saw it a second ago in the b-roll that a there's a guy holding the ipad air with one hand which is writing never showed with the old line right couldn't do it I don't know whether the message is here's your one hand here's your pointing to a friend and showing them your work that you're doing the difference it's just sighs no but that's what I'm saying but its size but it also seems like they're saying look we have strata here we've got ipad mini cheap I've had many expensive ipad air well they don't have a tree by better than we've got ipad air is it just i mean the the mini retina and the error at parity in terms of specs so you don't think those are seen as separate tracks like hey there's me people want the small screen people who want the large screen we're making a set of products are way more confusing now for people i think it's it's purple saying their convergence is a downsize the body of the you know 9.7 at 7.9 it's they're not wildly odd in terms of size so and they look as similar as they've ever looked now that the bezel has been trimmed on the sides which means they're they're saying okay we like this in portrait mode you can hold it horizontally with those you know bars on the side but I think the way I've been thinking about it is that it's like having a legal pad and like having a moleskine different people like different things different people like to read you know different ways different people like to take notes different ways so I think they're just trying to fill both of those needs at least for now while people are still buying both of them yeah I think so i think that we're about ready to wrap yours or anything that we have not thoroughly dissected know i'ma shirts the untucked shirts we haven't talked about that we thought about a lot we did talk a lot about Jerry the three the law shirts or any deal for us I get it maybe I'm just nitpicking but I I really you are close attention to these presentations and I heard more stutters and little word miscues today than I've ever heard no I really did I do hear that he had a lot of enough this stalking someone is stuttering right now you know they had a lot of like pre recorded footage more than I've seen them happy for you had a lot of pre recorded footage and frankly like you know this was not an energetic event no it was very mellow I mean all of their events lately are very mellow you know there is the showmanship of Steve Jobs we got hooked on it we're used to it we still even though we know it's not going to be there we kind of expect it from an apple event when the spectacle starts ratcheting up these guys are all fine on stage they're all good at their jobs you know they're all capable smart dudes and they're still a tier above and the other company oh I'm actually you know people have gotten better they've learned you know Samsung still hasn't learned but most companies have taken cues and they don't put they don't put the really embarrassing guys out on stage they didn't put teens on stage which was good they didn't yeah there's no chance but but but it's still you know you kind of ratchet up for that excitement and it's just not there this is a very low-key very mellow event these are incremental product updates and you know it just seems like until they enter that new product category they're gonna feel like this and that maybe early next year you know that may happen very soon it could be some weird imitation fun like watch what happens or someone that yeah i think when we go back to the title for a second i guess what upsets me the most we kept getting super excited by that whatever pun could be you know still a lot to cover in fact there was no pun it was just she'll have to talk about it was a very boring non pun announcement yeah we've got a lot to cover anyhow here to post about all the puns in their meeting we were hoping we did well I mean they've been they've been teasing set for 10 years in these invitations they've got something have been really cryptic they never has been just just whatever ok so I think we need to wrap up that is the verge live at Apple it is for another October event a great birthday gift to me I feel happy belated mojej has had I have my birthday on Saturday thank you for all the warm wishes 25 years young and anyhow but I would like to thank obviously Ross in Ellis the Vox Studios team everybody who worked on this broadcast or you point when he pointing to have your pointing you know or today thank you think that role to the control rivers no bacon super things you can see them these people though you just it's they're so beautiful and also in the nude which is how we do it but so in thanks to you guys for watching I mean you've been listening if you've been listen to this whole thing from like the start of the broadcast to this and I'm sorry you're sick you're very sick person and we appreciate it we'll be back with the verge cast on Thursday and and obviously we have great right now on the site if you haven't checked it out we have great video videos of the minis the ipad air v I believe the the new macbooks now we have some video of them with the very least we have hands-on stories post about them with in-depth coverage and just tons of news from today everything that they mentioned that was newsworthy we have a story on so if you want more information continue to look at the verge calm if you don't want information that's fine don't read the verge I get it you like to be ignorant take a nap school yeah go take a nap and yeah thanks so much we'll be back very soon