Gadgetory

welcome to the verge live just after world wide developer conference 2014 i'm ross miller i'm chris sigler and god there's a lot to go go through i will have dieter bills a heck of an event yeah we'll have a lot dieter bohn with us very soon um come up from cisco yeah san francisco but let's just get into it here's the big news then we'll kind of dive right in OS 10 10 point in Yosemite is a brand new look notification widgets actually spotlight which is basically Alfred right iOS 8 health kit home kit programs could apps can talk to each other widgets new programming language dear God and of course the continuous client everything talks to each other now they blew it out they really did so let's let's just go let's just ask well quick what would your personal reaction to the whole thing I thought that they hit well you know obviously we would have liked to have seen hardware right in a perfect world we would have seen and I watch we would have seen a retina MacBook Air we would have seen a the mythical Apple TV the actual rectangular box not just to set up you're talking about the full set right um but but we can keep dreaming and look let's be honest Apple's can be doing some events later this year obviously um right so this ended up being a purely software a focused event but if it had to be a purely software a focused event I think that they had on a lot of really important points i just said on twitter a second ago that it feels like they hit they checked a bunch of boxes that have been lingering for years that needed to be checked off the the app to app crosstalk in iOS is huge widgets and notification center those have been sort of on the docket for a while rumored for awhile the the continuous client stuff between OS 10 and iOS is really really frickin cool i mean like you can take a call on your phone on your pc finally I just tweeted last week that I wish that you could see your SMS is in the messages app and it was 10 they're fixing that so they're doing some really cool stuff airdrop airdrop works now between phones and pcs so again they just checked off a bunch of boxes that they need to check off I that this is a great update to iOS and of course they're bringing the design language of OS 10 up to up to snuff so right okay so let's let's dive in and first of all mostly I think the widget thing I do want to say that the widget was interesting Craig federighi who had every other performances mean hair Force One hair for swollen as he's affectionately called uh uh he knows that widget has been someone's been requested since iOS to that was the only time that Steve Jobs name was invoked actually and it took six versions to get it right they got it right we'll find out but real quick let's go for I was ten because it was the quickest one of the bunch it was maybe 20 minutes of a two-hour presentation something like that the other they kind of a s10 was ten point 10 Yosemite right which Craig federighi first called OS 10 weed yeah that was a weird name it they were doing weird like fake jokes this is like corporate joke stuff now they were doing yeah they were really yucking it up a little bit for a while I mean look I think that that federighi is not uh he's definitely not a a stuffy guy and it shows in the way that he presents but yeah they kind of blew through OS 10 pretty quickly when you break down everything that they were bringing to the table obviously the aforementioned continuous client stuff which i believe the still unclear to me but I think that it's all falling under the umbrella of what they're calling handoff right which is a better airdrop a phone call integration between between your pc and your phone caller ID works so if your phone rings you see a pop up on the screen that says so-and-so is calling and SMS integration right right now it's just i must be between handoff airdrop maildrop iCloud Drive which is I guess they're Dropbox competitor in some sense i mean this is this is everything that I cloud i think was promised to be years and years ago that's actually finally realized and in some right right and and of course you can't overlook the fact that they've completely redesigned the operating system and now it looks like iOS it's much flatter I think Josh it was doing the live blog just kept screaming glass and glass glass yeah I'll be curious to get josh's full download on how he feels about the design cuz i know that he had some strong feelings about iOS 7 what came out and and they've obviously adopted that design language for for yosemite it's readily apparent that Jony ive had a very strong influence there so from what i can tell so far it looks great the public is gonna be able to sign up for this beta over the course of the summer and then it's eventually going to be free upgrade this fall but you know to historically you've had to pay a fee to become a developer in the eyes of Apple and then you can go under NDA and get this thing but now it's just kind of opened everybody's you know I think it's just realization like that's just how information is dissipated now like everybody's banks everything there's gonna get leaked yeah house know you might sell just be a part of it that's exactly right yeah and I think the most visual or X most functional user-facing feature that I think is gonna be exciting is spotlight which is essentially I don't know if email it still uses it but uh we use Alfred um religiously at the office and it's just like you know one hotkey you get everything you want online or on your computer and now that's just part of the operating system right and thank God too yeah no I mean if if you had to kind of identify one theme throughout this event it's that they're playing catch-up and kind of picking and choosing features from other platforms and apps around the world it's obvious that they took some inspiration from Alfred 44 spotlight I feel kind of bad for the elfrid guys yeah but I mean it's also it can now be integrated much clearer I'm sure Alfred will figure something out gonna give like it's it's not all take care like it's it's much better as I care I care okay I'm really sorry you want hog I not now maybe later um yeah so that was cool but but I just keep going back to the to the design because it is really striking you think about the fact that that OS 10 is is what over over a decade a little old now is that right over a decade old I'm not making it moves up right I mean is 10 point 10 number of schemes be damned right sorry and and this feels like the most drastic single design iteration the in the platform's history I mean there have obviously been some pretty striking if you go back and look at 10 points or before that into the betas to you know 10.5 10.6 10.7 there are obviously changes but this is like a really clean break a lot of glasses Josh said very flat it's it's just it's a it's the matchup that they needed with iOS now that it's in seven and eight and they had that that clean break last year and the platform and before we get into that I do want to like stop a second to enjoy one club this is probably my favorite part there wasn't a lot of Apple executives that showed up it was basically just Craig and Tim kind of going back and forth we expected some kind of like beats mention there wasn't one except for like Donald ray that's yes they did not eat at all dr. dre they did call Bob I think we had that Cliff Lee playing a second um a crowd Federer he talking to dr. Dre calling him on the computer yes wanted to make a phone call to a new Apple employee that's that's joining us is something we do from time to time so let me just bring up oh this here we go a little little welcome Paul let's give him a wwc welcome so what's up let's have my Mac dial via my iphone I I talked to people like him all the time of course very normal for me Wow hey it's Craig federighi here hey are you doing it this dre hey hey doctor you're on speakerphone with via my mac with over 6000 amazing developers here at WWDC we all want to welcome you to Apple creating such amazing act yeah they have created some amazing apps I we're glad you caught here can't get fit for your baton special work if you want to be Tim into the office it be about 4 30 but i think you know orientation new employee orientation starts at nine so and you don't to miss the free t-shirt so I chewed 49 sounds good I can't wait to get your work to keep it up well Dre it's been great chatting with you I'll see you around campus thank you create awesome alright bye ok first off on first mention Craig goes hello Doctor it's not a first name no it's a little not it isn't isn't maybe I mean maybe in a formal setting if you're meeting the good doctor for the first time talk your refer to him as dr. I'm not sure and then you just clear listen to Dre just go off like on some script everyone's applauding just getting through the motions I'm just still in my mind having a very difficult time rectifying the chronic with what happened on stage today it's just it's it's not what you know it trey is known for his for his work in music yeah that is very I would say it is it is not of the law for lack of a better term and so now he's in this very corporate environment is frankly a little difficult to park I think it's such a much of stretch I think Dre's in the business of making a lot of money that's true um that's true and that phone call alone made him a billionaire yeah that's that's very true it well so getting back to the point about beats not being a big part of this presentation I look the deal was announced last week right I'm sure that the the keynote today has been planned or mostly planned for weeks if not months so they you know they it's not something that they could rely on and they just didn't fit it in and that's not to say that they would have had any hardware to announce anyway so that's true i mean there's also the software portion which is beats music which is right someone analogous itunes radio also didn't hear anything about that that's a very good point which was surprised we did we heard there might be a chance of the iTunes radio app being separate mmm not the case um although God knows I might change also because of I don't know what they're gonna do you have itunes music you have music if itunes radio you have beats music right it's gonna get a little crowded on that one right let's let's just don't jump right into iOS a unless or anything else you wanna talk about for a Yosemite at all i well just the fact that that this is this is a hell of an update update for fro as tend to be free right it's one thing for this to be a you know hundred-dollar update but it's you know we we've we've kind of gotten the sense from Apple that they're they're moving away from that model for desktop updates like they they have been for mobile updates so in you're gonna get a free operating system update this is this is a great one to get that's like a very small group oh if you get any free operating system update but to their credit that is something that's big on the developer study because and this is something hammered early on was like fifty one percent of their customers have upgraded to mountain lion the newest version right which sounds like a lot no no you mean you mean maverick maverick so yes it's still it sounds like a lot remember it's a free download and the only got half to upgrade I'm sorry I know it's much better than windows 8 right well so there are a few considerations right there's the fact that there's a cut-off beyond which the hardware doesn't support Mavericks right so you got to figure that a significant percentage of that other half it falls into that category and then there's the category of people who just don't care and then there's the group of people myself included who believe that snow leopard was the best version of OS ten of all time and would prefer her that it just be frozen there in time seriously snow snow leopard was really really good what is why would you want outdated operate you know it it was just no a liquor just okay after after snow leopard every subsequent I'm sure there are viewers right now on who I understand what I'm getting at after snow leopard every subsequent version of OS 10 introduced more bugs than it fixed Snow Leopard it was like they took I don't know if you remember the the keynote for but I remembered very well they made a very very specific point of saying developers look this is this version isn't about features we're just cleaning up that like we've been working on this thing for many years now we're just gonna take a breath clean it up fix some bugs and spit out a new version and they did it and it was fantastic and since then every time you have to upgrade to a new version of OS 10 you go through you know a couple point releases we're full buggy and i I'm I'm sure they go somebody will be the same way absolutely but here's the other thing also that and this is it's a number saying to is Apple I don't think honestly cares that much training center and uh uh uh explain why apple doesn't care about bugs well it doesn't care as much about OS 10 here's another reason why Mavericks what sits at 40 million copies installed and that's fifty one person the user base so it's just a little over 80 million yep okay compare that to 800 million iOS devices as in there today yeah you know a hundred million ipod touches they have more ipod touches out there than there claiming for for mac right so like what they're focused on i mean he keeps saying iOS iOS know as 10 as it was 10 they're not going to change them but iOS is clearly the dominant platform of course it's why he's been hour and a half on it right and that was a when they started talking about iOS was we got this barrage of words that end in kit right was there was health kit which is accompanied by the creatively named app health then there is a home kit there is cloud came out kit and i think i might be missing one or two and then there was metal anyway we should talk we should talk about all these things yeah and I'm gonna have to ask you to kind of hold my hand through metal and Swift because those the ones that are gonna sure yeah so let's just let's just go into health kit which was a formerly known in the leaks as health book because it just looked like passbook right health kit is the platform of the sub platform and health is the app is that right yes ok so what it what is the what is the big thing I know it's like it keeps track of a lot of stuff yeah and they send it to Mayo Clinic right they said they said it to me a clinic basically it I get the impression that there that they're trying to to obviate doctors like a someday Apple is going to be your done your phone is going to be your doctor you think ave are I mean I don't think I don't think they're try everything replace my hair look man in in in 20 years doctors will be obsolete your phone will be your doctor when you need surgery equipment on the phone will sort of spring out and operate on you know it's it's you know that they're working with Nike and as you mentioned Mayo Clinic to do some of this stuff they they announced a lot of partners I'm sure they're going to be announcing more but it's apparent that health and fitness are a big big push for Apple right now and we've heard rumors that that i watch that they're allegedly working on which we heard nothing about right at this event is also fitness focused so you can see how it kind of all creates an ecosystem and if your sins almost almost somewhat of a head-scratcher because in the finance calls they do you keep hinting at new product categories they keep saying with a lot of great stuff Tim Cook I think less than a year ago said we really like wearable stuff for looking into it yeah and this time they didn't even hit and I watches they're like look this health kit stuff it measures yeah how do you get measurements may I don't worry about it right like they did not even hint at it no teases it was just aa we're measuring don't worry about it that's because in a few months you're gonna have your i watch and we'll take care of all the measure in a few months maybe I don't know at this time dissident that was one of the kids and then there was let's just go through the kids I guess a home kit this is the one I think fortune or Forbes see financial time financially it's one of the one of the f one of the f-word holidays all at publications but a home kid this was rumored it's home automation it's not as big of a deal in the presentation as it was in the article but I'm here's your stance on this one because it's just yeah your phone knows what your house is doing if you have the right smart home equipment you can use it well I think that Apple has the potential to bring gravity to a standard it has a potential to do two very important things in home automation one bring gravity to a single standard in an industry that has historically struggled to find a common standard and to simply bring attention to it because it's kind of a wacky offbeat almost hobbyist industry where it's like you have these weirdos like my self who buy all these different you know wireless locks and and and and lights and switches and all these things and sometimes they work sometimes they don't some use z-wave some you zigbee some use some other weird standard so high right now how do you control is like a remote control you have are you still just using a light switch because then it's just nothing no that's that's a that's a very good question and and there there is no good answer there are companies like crestron that do ultra high-end home automation and they just basically talk to everything and they say don't worry about it you can buy these ten components with 10 different standards and we'll just talk to all of them there's a a device called revolve that we wrote about late last year look kind of like a stack of CDs a red and transparent stack of CDs that has a bunch of radios in it and it can talk to you know nest thermostats and a z-wave light switches and whatnot um right so yes I taking the bigger picture is basically what Apple wants to do and this is obviously an old thing that's it's not all but took a couple years I've been working on this like they want you to talk to Siri and say Syria I'm getting ready for bed please turn off the lights stop looking at me right so yeah exactly so that's the the software that's the the user experience for this thing but then on the back end they have this home kit standard that devices will be able to get certified through and so you're going to see all these things that have been just kind of like plotting along on disparate standards sometimes they work sometimes they don't including like I said wireless locks light switches air conditioners and heaters and actually now that nest is a google company I suspect that no love will be lost between home kit and a nest I don't think you can be seeing if he knows we look at the partners and we've got the list right here ness is nowhere to be found nest is nowhere no available and they used to be bffs I don't know if you remember I believe that nest was the first brick-and-mortar store they were sold through was the apple store was the apples yep yep and I guess that is no longer the case or soon will not be the case I mean of course you would think because Apple and Google are rivals except they did mention Google twice by name the name check google twice and microsoft being once i would you pray for them yeah whenever they use safari search in iOS or o is tender like we're using google search right and then the big extension thing you know using actual widgets which again to the next was being translation like they're not being shy about like actually talking to the competitors when it's yeah of course a convenient for them right and i think i think it's it's a tacit admission on apple's part that they do certain things really well and they do other things not very well and one of those things that would be you know the barrier of entry is simply too high to try to bust into it is effective search right i mean like think of how much time and money and energy microsoft has poured into bang which plays a distant second fiddle to google in the global at least in the north american search market which and i hate i hate to echo a microsoft talking point but again second place is not the end of the world for this i mean no no certainly not but the fact the fact of the matter is you know apple has to choose between you know embracing the search partners and trying to go up against them and you look at the struggle that they that they've had with maps right a prime apps and do they really want to repeat that again with something as daunting as effective web search probably not you were like years ago to kept tugging oh we have Wolfram Alpha integration and what the hell happen to that thing no still in there like yeah if you if you Siri if you say something to Siri something like super nerdy like how many how many like neutrons are in a whatever it'll pull out pull from alpha so that's good yeah but let's let that let's go to that being translation up in the extensibility because this is a part that at once excites me it also scares the hell out of me what scares you okay well let's let's talk about what it is first its extensibility is what they're calling it it's this kind of a goodbye to the sandbox it's apps talking to apps yep which means finally open integration it means like as a corollary to that is like a course keyboard you can now choose different ones and that's a huge point thanks huge point no you know the mail client still default the maps clients default keyboard though it can be swipe it could probably be swiftkey and there's a new keyboard that Apple touting that's its own keyboard essentially right which is by the way a swiftkey like in that right it tries to complete phrases for you so that that all like makes me super happy super excited this is a long time coming thanking widgets in the home on the notification panel that being said the part of this that scares me is this is where you know Tim Cook talks about like Apple is very virus free it's one percent of the mobile virus market assimilated the androids 99% no one cares about Windows Phone god I'm gonna kill after this ah but then once you have this kind of thing we're like apps can draw it data from other apps and there's sandbox ideas over this is open the apps is open the information up to be more subjective to to viruses and to malware III don't think so because all of those components that you're referring to are still going to go through the same app store approval process that they do now the only difference is that they're now talking to each other but like you know if you trust app a and you trust at B then there's no real reason that you wouldn't trust a pay to talk to happy that's true that's true but yeah you know back to your original point about extensibility in general in iOS 8 I this is potentially the single biggest announcement today it when you when you think back to the progression and the the maturation of iOS and before that iphone OS over the years this has been a sticking point for as long as I can remember the fact that apps can't extend each other the fact that you can't have your own keyboard which is a huge deal on Android the first thing I do whenever I use an android phone is install swype and you have a name will do that in iOS so and and frankly at this point the built-in don't get me wrong in iOS one iOS to apple's keyboard was head and shoulders above everything else on the market today it sucks it's terrible it's worse than Windows Phone stock keyboard it's certainly worse than the Android stock keyboard in KitKat and and really a jelly bean before that so it's it's it's good to see that they've done this and I think that it's it could end up be when we see where AB development goes over the course of the next year that could end up being the biggest deal here right I mean but again we don't we haven't seen anything of it the only study showed was pinched identification they shall our first party stuff that's exciting you grow in line respond to messages I think Facebook you can like right well it's just like you know is just like anybody's developer conference it's like build or it's like Iowa well I oh right you need to the first thing you need to do is present the possibilities to the developers and then in a few months you see what can actually be done and my guess would be that in addition to the partners that they've worked with so far to present the few demos that they but they showed by the time we get to an iphone 6 announcement they will have a bunch of additional stuff on the tape right so we should talk about this more but thankfully hopefully luckily lovely we have dieter bohn from San Francisco live on the air DITA are you there I'm here how you doing guys doing very well it's a nice office kind of gotta go out San Francisco yeah is this is this is a vox West it's very impressive we're lucky to be here that's beautiful yeah also I'm not sure if it's a video glitch or if you're just really good at like miming um ah it is it is good to hear from you so dieter you've done a number of Worldwide Developer Conference he don't never developer conferences in general what was the vibe like in their media versus dev so the vibe was a you know pretty excited pretty happy the media was really into especially the stuff for iOS 8 the ability the extensions i think they're called the Sun stopper to nap so everybody in our section seemed really jazzed about it but then when they moved on to the section about Swift the new programming language the media section kind of started be like oh this seems cool the seam school and the developer section which was of course the vast majority of the room lost their minds they were cheering and yelling and super duper excited about it and I mean I'm not a developer so I can't tell you other than apples claims that it's way faster than objective-c of course way faster than Python what everything is it's great about Swift but the developers there seemed really excited and that I think is probably going to end up being the most influential thing out of the developers conference we look back on it a few years from now right this is actually a John Gruber who was tweeting throughout the event node Apple Developer know same thing media bet media badge people are silent attendees are going nuts this is huge huge news the future of all apple development which when you look at how small OS 10 adoption as versus iOS I think he's right in that case yeah I mean do you really need to see how this plays out for the rest of the developers conference scholars should i have for swift is i'm sure that apple's right that it's incredibly fast and easy to use and the development environment and this sounds so nerdy but this is a developer's conference so this is what what you know the big news was it seemed really easy to use but my question is if I like start learning how to use swift for aya is that does that mean I'm going to be less capable of making stuff for other platforms now Swift can work along with objecting like in the same app so you know you can only pick Swift but that might be a question right that's a course in that they may change going for obviously when Apple switched from I guess IBM power pcs allowed to Intel chips you know the programming language went with it the architecture one with it right now Swift and object to see work side to side object to see of course works on a lot of platforms mm-hmm what happens Apple sees this is a success and goes sorry guys well let's I mean let's probably know Swift will work just fine on windows at some point that's true that's true right and you know let's be super clear objective c is already a very Apple specific environment you don't see developers on Windows or certainly on Android programming and Objective C so I I don't see this as being a protectionist move and I certainly don't see it as being a roadblock to allowing developers to develop another in other platforms and this is why I do not develop encode thank you guys so much for clearing that one up on my on my end um no but yes a dieter above and all you also solves the iOS stuff the OS 10 stuff what was their kind of the feeling for that your own personal feeling actually my own personal feeling is the we'll start with OS 10 I think it looks fine i think it looks pretty good actually i'm really interested in the continuity features I think that's killer to be able to text and to be able to just pick up stuff from one device and move it to the other device yeah and just start right where I left off I'm super excited that I'm probably going to switch back to Safari from chrome because chrome has been feeling slower and slower and all the speed stuff they showed on safari looks pretty amazing so you know it's not it's not a kind of update that would if you don't already like OS 10 get you to switch necessarily but if you are using OS 10 I think it's going to feel a lot better at iOS 8 stuff like the the extensibility software apps can talk to each other I'm pretty excited for a touch ID being opened up to the point where iphone 5s i've been using an iphone 5 all this time but the ability to not have to punch in passwords purchase price for me and yeah i don't know a lot of it's a blur I'm glad airdrop finally works about across devices I'm glad they finally fixed that yeah I mean after keynote supposed to have to remember the millions of features that they announced what so what some of the stuff you guys have been talking about yeah well I tier point dieter I think that the the handoff features are huge I I was just tweeting last week that messages the messages app on OS 10 would be so much more useful if you could see both SMS and I message so the fact that they did that was big I was kind of blown away by their phone call demo I thought that was crazy and cool and not expected yeah and I'm like yeah from RN to it was just like seeing kind of all that kind of great and I'm curious kind of a corollary to that is like the SMS I message stuff that's been kind of coming to a head lately and like is this a sign that's been fixed it's like they're figure out how to get that work or is it even worse ya know they even took a swipe at SMS users during the the conference right dieter yeah I was like a people who bought android phones of by mistake Tim said that wants and just you know people that you hate those green messages on the iphone the messages app in general is a really interesting section of the keynote because not only are they letting you you know use message from your desktop with texting but they've added a whole bunch other features so they've added the ability to share your location they've improved the ability to send voice messages and short video messages you can just tap on the out of button to you know actually record a voice message or tap out a button to just you know speak out what you want to say and they also added like quick I think so it natural using natural language prediction can guess what your next word is going to be so from my perspective that seems really interesting because they're not just taking out a general messaging client they're actually going after other messaging apps like facebook Messenger I guess maybe even snapchat since you can destroy stuff but that seems like a stretch to me and maybe whatsapp it really feels like a much more full-featured messaging app and the sort of thing I could actually see myself using yeah actually do go back to the COS like Oh trying to watch the stream I might have missed something up some things Auto self-destruct some things don't what is the where's that I default that again Ross what auto self-destructs what doesn't it was it wasn't kind of clear to me I maybe I just missed it on the stream the audio station it wasn't easy either actually they they glossed over it i think that's it that you can you can set stuff to slowly degrade and disappear but I mean we'll have all week to actually figure that stuff out and then we'll have you know right the beta when it comes and the actual release is fall so we'll see but I don't think that it's fair to think of it in the same class of snapchat regardless of what the auto-destruct messages features are I think it's it's much better to think of it as a competitor to say facebook Messenger or what's that well there's also that the name of it escapes me but there's that enterprise-class snapchat it's like snapchat for adults tinder no is it as absolutely nothing to do with tender your got a name drop in the intro video they were like having people talk about how amazing developers are I had a guy like and there is the best yeah there is and then like the kind of hell out him for a second like are you gonna say anything else about tinder how you use it nope all right moving on speaking of Tito kita we just need a rapid of it any final thoughts from the keynote my final thought is I'm really impressed that they're releasing the 10 dot 10 beta to the public this feels like a much more open much more accessible Apple and the fact that there are joking around way more and they are releasing a beta it's just regular users sort of admitting that people want to get in on this stuff early is a really good sign that Apple's opening up a lot yeah awesome dieter thank you so much thanks guys and I think that is like it's one of the threads that we should kind of opened up and I because Apple has a lot more open in so many ways these apps are more open OS 10 feels a little more the keynote feels more opening like it was more accessible yeah and to be fair you know with the developers conference I think that they've always been a little bit more open than they are at the consumer facing events because these are there people right these are the people that they need to bring with them on this journey to apps lack of a better phrase so it you know it being more open and direct and kind of friendly and jokey with them is natural but this event in particular felt you know a half notch different than usual in a good way you know it was entertaining it and actually you know in another sense to it's a half notch toward the condo developer centric we see another wdc past of course they are developer focused but they also have a nod to consumers here's new hardware here's the iphone 4 mm-hmm and this time is like we're going to code on stage right just make a 2-d game why not we're gonna show you how it is right this isn't like always expect at Google i/o for one of the three four days of right comforts us but you know this is kind of like where Apple's gonna go for us like we're gonna make jokes that developers love multi-threaded rope if we're going to you know make a little silly photoshop's things is kind of like jump around and if we're also going to show the stuff in action actually programming in action like that is that is a different kind of Apple it's one that's catering not to every audience but do a very specific audience with this and you know to that point going back to what I said at the beginning of this I think we're in for a really busy second half for Apple I we're going to see I have to believe at least three events right there they have to do an iphone event they have to do an iWatch event I can't imagine they would want to bundle two events that big maybe but probably not there they're gonna have to talk retina MacBook Air they're going to have to talk iPad and they might have to talk Apple TV how do you fit five major you know product shifts for them into the span of six months I don't know not to mention in the next 6-12 months we're going to see something about Apple beats and all that kind of collaboration like that has like be more than just these timeout dotted line because we don't know what it means yet right really and you know of course what they what they typically do is they show ninety percent of the next version of iOS Bay either in a dead event or at WWDC and then at the time of the announcement of the next iPhone is when they show that other ten percent right right I think last year was touch ID was sort of the big reveal when they announced the 5s this year clearly there will be some additional ten percent so to speak that they that they show at the time of the iphone 6 might be a new screen resolution for the bigger displays it might be who knows something they haven't thought it i mean the big rumors that didn't happen this time of course were transit and Google sorry transient Apple maps he's right right from their hopstop acquisition exactly um you know they got the notifications are presumably from the queue acquisition maybe we'll see but um and then also of course multitasking with the ipad which has been rumored a lot lately I was not likely going to make this of course but that's something to show later this year um are you hedging on the iWatch and the apple TV unveils any of that side as being as being 2014 announces yes I i watches a lock for 2014 I think I believe very strongly we're going to see that this year Apple TV I think could easily slip into 2015 but at this point at this point is just kind of like a running joke that there aren't apps for the Apple look at the very least let me put flappy bird on Apple TV like it's such an easy win right we saw amazon do with fire TV makes absolutely no sense that they would continue to lock independent developers out of that platform so i think again it's good i think it's just gonna be a really busy second half wrap i think if you look at even like what Eddy Cue set the the recode conference last week or the code conference from recode right now which is you know 20 million happy to Apple TV's clearly not a hobby yeah you know he said we'd the most exciting product category clearly we gotta figure out what the hell is tracking health data right it's got to be something and I just could use a fuel band right so yeah I guess we'll see but um that's you know you know for us at least that is that is kind of it 44 double w DC yeah the big key no we're going to be obviously sticking around the whole week talked a lot of people try to get a little more information especially on Swift mmm which is you know Swift to metal a shoo-in for making apple TV apps work and games of course it's right everyone thank you so much for joining us of course d bone is at back lawn on twitter chris is e power I'm oh no Rosco no II if you put the en it actually redirects you thank you whoever did that for all this information and more check out the verge com thank everyone for joining us and have a great day thanks guys