Gadgetory

so the first time you see something it could be pretty traumatic the first time you see fireworks it might be scary the first time you see an r-rated movie might be too violent for you heck the first time most Americans saw moving picture it was of Thomas Edison electrocuting an elephant well hopefully today we won't quite be so traumatic you are seeing us on video for the first time stay tuned for the verge mobile show hey I'm dieter bohn I'm glad settle and i am chris sigler and this is episode 1 of The Verge mobile show / episode 30 of the Virgin Mobile podcast we are here live on video it's a week in May 28th and we're sponsored by the samsung galaxy note which is one of the reasons you're seeing video right now they're really freaking me out by the way I got it I got to be honest it's really specially going to turn off the stream so I I can't actually see what we look like because it'll just send my computer into a tailspin of flash and doom yeah these are you these MacBook Airs do not deal with this much activity very well um well I mean should we just jump into the news because it's it's really self-conscious to know that no I talk no we should talk for at least another five minutes about uh the the transition to video actually first of all we should give a shout out to uh to Brendan Murphy and clearly Simone amazing yeah these guys are killing it on the on the back end right now you don't even realize what's happening in New York where this is all being put together in real time guys are the unsung heroes in fact they share you they should just do the podcast we don't even need to be here in my opinion they are they're currently sacrificing small animals in order to make the technology behind this the stream happen right now it's very well that's the last I heard I just want to point out I shouldn't be bringing this up uh and and Creighton and especially deed are going to kill me but we are looking into a crate and I as a side project we doing a fast and the furious themed weekly show called the fast cast where we where we talk about all things vin diesel paul walker um and and i don't know when that's gonna launch but and that's that isn't really a purge project but but keep an eye out for that if you're if you're a Creighton fan anyway who know we can canoe I'm done with my with my fast cast promo spot and and now we can talk galaxy s3 right that's the big news that is the huge news it's it's out in Europe but more importantly Vlad has provided a killer review of it a lab would you say killers right word I would say killer i would say amazing also stunning I'm gonna let you drop the adjectives um and I agree with you I'm gonna turn on the stream because it's completely unnerving first of all seeing your sales peak second of all seeing the little lag between when we have our conversation and it's happening in the screen yeah hmm so there's about a couple of seconds so I hear you guys speaking and then your faces catch up with the things are here and it's just somebody on Twitter just asked me if if my studio is where they used to film Oprah and the answer is yes I'm actually and i are both studios in the west loop in chicago illinois and and yeah i mean it's a beautiful space Oprah doesn't need anymore neither does rosie o'donnell so here I am I do have any way to a halo of light behind your head though Chris it's it does look very studio ish yes are you drinking like sake or like hot tea or something out of a bowl what is that uh yes it's hot sake which if I'm navas de I'm not a sake expert um but if i'm not mistaken hot sake is like the lower quality sake um so yeah i'm drinking low quality sake while we're are casting pretty soon it speeds it up to detract from them Oh take away from the low quality is that what it is I I think that's the idea yeah it's um it's kind of yeah it distracts you from the crappy flavor of the sake the good sake is is the chilled stuff I don't know why were you mad you know can we please can we please talk about cats are you drinking on the video and I had to ask because it's a whole new media format now and we've got ya a million more ways that we can get off on tangents than we did before before before I could get away with drinking this uh in silence in peace and quiet nobody would bother me about it now people are giving me crap about my about my sake by the way it's not so good boys give you crap will give you questions you're derogating me on my delicious beverage it's actually an espresso I just want to point is a dumb guy sitting Dunkin Donuts coffee no I saw God me that you bought some dunkin dogs ah come on man sorry Gavin too I have a two-pronged colony strategy in my household I use I use a burr grinder paired with a sochi russia a water boiler with a french press for coffee and then i also evidence an espresso for when i needed a quick jolt a quick shot and so that's what i'm doing right now I'm hoping that I don't fall asleep on the air and the only way I can do that is by drinking espresso can we talk about the galaxy s3 please yes really wanted to point out two things point out right here first of all just because of called the verge mobile show doesn't mean we're going to be any different from the verge of a podcast including the five minutes of Prelude where we do not talk about my wife owns so we've kept to that local tradition and the second thing Miriam who we might know is tango on Twitter she emailed me and she had this awesome Type O which i thought i would share with my coffee loving friends which was a Tesla roaster without the d I just thought Chris would love one of those so it's not a gasoline-powered roaster it's it's gonna be a lecture but it's a Testarossa it's not it's an electric roaster I like it it's gonna be supremely designed well probably a rebadge of somebody else's eye but whatever rights Tesla branded so galaxies free I think we're done we can go on to the next topic that way however pretty well I think actually uh yeah I mean like I pretty much the out of the review with the question how do you review something I the galaxy s4 you because we already had a dedicated podcast specifically to it yeah narrative arc of the galaxy s3 for us I feel like it was like crazy build up huge event and we're like pretty disappointed but then it started building up again as we actually started getting time with it building up to the second huge event the review in the release and flat yeah okay your training of me and well and my all states another peak its second peak when it's a somewhat surprising one because samsung's event let let's not make any bones about a samsung is launched before Gallas history will just complete train wreck and a disaster and so much of what is good about this phone was either obscured or confused by Samsung's message the first thing to say is that there was so much branding at that event which either made no sense or again obscured the meaning and the purpose of the feature underneath it that you just didn't grasp what Samsung was trying to convey to you like the company is trying to oversell features which are handy and useful but in one of those like much more limited ways and it's something that I get is the same vibe that I get with the Apple hardware I mean yeah very quickly I'm Sharpie to Apple hardware but you know if you're not familiar with the iphone if you're not familiar with the ipad there is so much exaggeration going on not from Apple itself but from other people about how huge the rat they are and how important they are that when you come to use them you're under whelmed they just work and they do a couple of handy and useful things but you don't feel like your world is changed or being flipped upside down you just gradually end up using them more and i feel this analogy actually fits with the gaseous free there's things like a picture in picture mode which i believe is only for the video that you have on the device itself so at this stage it isn't as useful as something like let's say streaming a news channel via the internet which you can just kind of stick into a corner you can reposition I I need to interrupt your life are you are you actually going to convince me or try to convince me that picture in picture is not a completely ridiculous feature on a phone yeah yeah I am because I thought about this is ok but but that's what i was saying right now it isn't that valuable because you need to have the video on the phone in order to do that but I'm somebody who may be just a weird habit but I like watching the BBC News Channel I like watching the live stream of Russia today that international news channel as well and I kind of let like the idea of having a little window that you can reposition across the screen on your phone while you're doing other things again it's limited utility but it's one of those small things which adds to it but then Samsung calls it pop up play which is like haha Amy what does that mean what does that mean to you if you're not familiar with the actual feature it means nothing and they do have skinnies a little more it means a little more than smart stay though you have to but it's what state you just started is the worst thing ever and actually ever since Samsung like I actually understood what they were actually showing with that and not just like some creepy you know your phone is watching you your photos watching you like every time I see my 1x screen turn off and i'm still using it i get really angry and I bike the Samsung has gotten under my skin with that picture I think I want that exactly and this is exactly my point it's a subtle feature it's a neat feature but you don't have to oversell it the way Samsung is selling it like the phone is smart or the spawn is more intelligent and another false anybody isn't that intelligent you just use the front-facing camera you still have the same screen timeout time is usually do so 30 seconds a minute two minutes so if you don't touch the screen the screen switch itself off but during that time if you recognize is that your eyes are on the display without you touching it obviously you're reading it obviously you looking at it so it doesn't switch yourself off so that's all that smart she does but you give it that silly name and people don't understand what the hell it even youths and you know it that was just two of the features and it is just a laundry list of all these additions which are handy in uh you know most of them are actually unique so Samsung Samsung gets credit for that but Samson just kind of berries and excuse them um over late let me put you on the spot and I I don't want to stop talking about the galaxy s3 I want to continue talking about it at length bonus um I'm kind of ntldr mode right now and I just I want to know I have a a snap of a Snapdragon s4 1x in front of me and a galaxy s3 upon me which do I choose and when I'm holding the one that I would choose is the HTC One X really yes um I mean again this is there's a lot to say about the galaxy s free and there's a lot to praise about it oh but the HTC One X has this display which you just can't get away from um as first to see my galaxy s4 reviews well when you're using the phone you're probably method of input and output is a display so your most important thing in a phone is the display yeah so if the HTC One X is the best display in the world which as far as smartphones are concerned I think we're all in agreement it does it's just kind of a no-brainer at the same time having said that I spent half of my Saturday this weekend trying to install a stock android rom on the HTC One X and it's such a reverse engineering feat they had before I spent my weekend reinstalling boot camp on my old Mac so that I would have a proper Windows machine because I can't find my netbook so that I could install a custom rom on my HTC One X same thing I just didn't quite get there I think I have you guys both be I actually a couple years ago I started this project where I wanted to make my own digital picture frame that had some advanced capabilities and I wrote it in c-sharp it was this whole thing and it used a samsung a LCD like a eight eight or ten inch LCD that had their there's some display technology that works over USB is display what is it called someone may ask now display lately it it has displaylink support and so I connected that to a tiny pc called a fit pc to which i believe is made by an Israeli company and they have some orders in us and so I bought a fit pc to this ad empowered and has built in Wi-Fi and everything and literally electrical taped it to the back of this samsung LCD and set it up on my on my desk and I could do a few different cool things with it so I in the last time I needed to to route a device I think the last time that I seriously put a lot of effort into it was with my g2x the stock rom on that was just a steaming pile of garbage and so I I literally connect I had the g2x connected to this digital picture frame and I was VN seeing into it from another machine going through these these insane steps and like you know if that there's that they're like five or six steps where you know if something goes wrong you're just completely hosed and so you know there were so many layers of communication between you know my machine another room connected over VNC and the phone itself that you know if any one of those broke than the phone was was bricked and fortunately I didn't break it but i think i may have to bring that thing back out to do something with the 1x as well ok ok that's my annexes yeah never the point is valid i mean i first of all stumbled across a bipolar Brian over at motor co he has a problem with just standard issue ice cream sammich four-point-oh for the HTC One X it's waiting is there you just need to install it but in order to do that you need to have root access you need to have superuser privileges in order to do that you need to unlock the bootloader in order to that you need to part of HC dev which are registered again saturday i believe it was and I still haven't heard from HTC so just a whole bunch of okay I want to be more adventurous with my phone I won't install some fresh software okay I'll go the extra step I'll do this and then oh hang on a sec there's another extra step in an oh wait there's another extra step but now I need to register now these guys need to let me know and no he grows exasperating on the other hand and this is the perfect segue back to the galaxy s free um the gaseous free stock software is actually good yeah yeah yeah I explain this to me it should be well hang out before we really want to get to this offer but like we we started this conversation talking about the screen and actually before we get into the software that's a really long conversation yeah pentile does bother you does bother you doesn't bother you now it's as if you thought of wood what's the story wait definitely the correct answer is the last one that you offered that doesn't bother me as much as that expected it would I mean you hosting her shots you had a macro shot that made it look not great right I mean then that's also part of my job I feel you know if he spent our you need to dig it up and you need to show that it's bent out because right right other people might care um I'm usually one of those other people like um I don't make any apologies about that I am extremely particular about the spike technologies for the aforementioned reasons than that because it really important um but in the case of the galaxy s three yeses pensao but then no I don't notice it and the problems with pens are usually things like jagged edges you know fine details looking almost imperceptibly wrong but then once you see them you can't unsee them in this case you have to basically bring the phone right up to your eyes and stare at it and stare it really really tiny tiny little details to be able to pick out the fact that this penthouse so to me that is not a relevant issue with the display actually a more surprising issue is well I don't know about surprising but a bigger issue for me is the fact that it has this blue cast which was seen on whole ton of AMOLED displays and you know it's just the wrong color temperature for everybody displays the displays definitely better than the Galaxy Nexus right bar none uh well honestly I don't have that much experience with the Galaxy Nexus is there you go green stood yeah this experience the deed or not had at ctia and our brief time with the galaxy s3 was that it was but I definitely like some more side by side time with those two devices to be sure you know sure but you know as much as anything else maybe if you gave you guys a nexus to use for a couple of days at our level absolute the exact same complaints and even more severely but as much as anything else I also feel like amoled isn't as impressive as you has been a year ago two years ago it's just kind of stagnated at this level I mean okay that sounds extremely picky when you look at the fact that this is an HD display with 1280 by 720 resolution and all of that stuff but in fact this is the strength of AMOLED have not changed at all a good viewing angles not perfect the HTC One X is better uh you know great vibrancy extreme brightness when you actually haven't turned up to the maximum and I mean also the galaxy's freeze very readable in sunlight I steal again the HTC One X is better in sunlight so but it's a strong display just isn't amazing it isn't amazing the way that IPS lcds are looking on the HTC One X and you know the potentially what we can expect from next iPhone so i'm actually at this point I'm actually the IPS LCD camp but I feel like that is a more advanced technology than holla'd at this stage of proceedings last time I I feel like if you know there was it was obvious that amyloid was gonna be the winner there and then I think that that technology kind of petered out I think Samsung push it as far as it possibly could in a very short period of time and it's not to say that they're not continuing to advance but i think that they kind of hit a brick wall with pixel density and with you know the black magic of pentile that allows them to get around some of the pixel that is the sort of thing with pent-up you don't actually have as many sub pixels as with a regular RGB layout mm-hmm so yes it's 1280 by 720 full-size pixels but because of the way things are arranged you actually have fewer sub-pixel so again the definition is not going to be as high as a proper 720p display but also again you kind of knew that with the Galaxy Nexus a secondary issue is actually that Samsung seems to be over-aggressive with the auto-brightness so the only thing yes go see emily play uses up a very significant proportion of the battery which is very generous 2,100 milliamp hours but then you also need it to the quad-core Exynos processor and this display its 4.8 inches he's gonna use a lot of power so Sam some kind of tries to cheat by having the auto brightness set at too low I mean particularly right next to the One X is just waited only babe Douglas they did this on the Galaxy Nexus they did this on the Nexus S III think the GS tues that I've used have all had auto brightness settings are way too low and it's super annoying because you you know you you turn it off you turn it off you're constantly futzing with it Apple does such a better job with auto brightness because I'm on iOS you can turn on a brightness on and you can also adjust the slider so if ya still a dynamically adjust the auto brightness but you can say I want auto brightness all the time but don't go lower than this because come on I need to look at the screen come on I don't understand why Samsung if they're gonna copy stuff from Apple copy that because that's that's human centric design if you if you say that this thing is designed for humans design out so humans can look at your screen it's not just that that they need two sliders they need that one and they also need a slider for adjusting the the light sensor sensitivity mmm that's also true and does the other thing is that do new brightens jumps around it isn't gradual so when the phone senses that light around is changed it kind of jumps into a you know a significantly higher brightness or significantly lower brightness and it's kind of a prompt you know it isn't smooth it isn't gradual but honesty I I do feel like those nitpicks now those are things you can just kind of get used to and accept the the overall conclusion that I drew with the galaxy s3 displays that if you never see this right next to the HTC One X you'll be very happy with the display if you if you do end up seeing your writings of the One X you'll be like me UV UV saying okay I know since four sucks I know Oh TouchWiz in this iteration iteration rather is actually pretty good and it's a tolerable skin and he kind of justifies the guy who says I gotta have my ways but all that's being said I just love this band One X and I can't get over it you know I will go through the misery probably this weekend of actually installing stock Android 4 on the One X and then I will have a joyous lifetime you know what's funny to me about the display on the one axis that I you know we we talk about this place at length on this podcast and we have for a very long time and we talk about him on the site and and I kind of believed that you know when you get into the the top 5% of displays average consumers or you know just pretty much anyone that isn't us can't tell the difference and doesn't care they just know that it's a high-resolution display when you look at it dead on it looks fine it looks great and and that's all there is to it but uh last week I I had drinks with polygons chris grant and who is an iphone user and he specifically i had the 1x in my hand and he specifically said wow I'm impressed at the fact that I can see it when you hold it on the side I can still see the display and of course the 1x has just an absolutely insane viewing a it's basically 180 degrees so that was that was very unusual and impressive to me the fact that HTC is is using a display so good that somebody who isn't attune to you know looking at 20 different phone displays on the market every month is still able to to notice that difference yeah and doesn't this thing that I'm also saying as good as good as history may be in terms of software and other aspects you can't do anything to upgrade its display where's with the HTC One X the display is there and then you can upgrade the software experience all right so you know neither of them is perfect both of them very good and I would say that it's just down to what you prioritize you know by in my case it's i prioritize the hardware to stare and I can take care of the software so so let me ask you something glad um would you talking about the 1x and going to stock Android would you insist on the custom HTC camera Apple are you willing to go to a stock camera app as well I can get I can get on without it that's kind of the camera app is pretty good on the what acts oh yeah I'm that's what I'm saying it kind of feels counterintuitive because it is very good and the other thing with the 1x is when you take a picture is so quick but you you feel like an arrow happen and never happened right it was is that quick so not to take away from it but it's it you know given that it's a trade-off I would say you know I I like it but I could live without it great let's let's get back to the the the the s3 because we're up to you want to talk about the software um so how's the camera on the s3 and how's the camera software on the s3 well camera software is pretty much identical to the galaxy s2 software the only magician the only real dition that they've included now is this / shot out which is pretty much like the butcher out in the HTC One X and so far as you could take up to 20 photos in quick succession then you can choose the best out of them you can choose 1 2 3 7 11 um however many you want you can save those you can save all 20 if you like but it's just the worship of the actual camera though quality of the camera is the best in a phone that I've seen yet that's just my judgment on it like I took a bunch of photos on the display did a good most of the time we take photos with a phone they look good in this play and then I dropped away from my computer and I was like well where is the noise where is the degradation of quality like most of my gallery photos was actually from the center of London where there was just so much going on around you you know that there are people close to you away from you there are details there are buildings this is so much um and the camera captured all of it it's so detailed it's amazing to me i can't i can't honestly compare it to the iphone 4s because i haven't used one of those for ages but i do feel like it's better I've usually oppressors yeah the HDR samples that you that you put up I thought oh yeah that really was great I'll be on bed with you the hdmi expose the pictures look very good but at a hundred sent crop they didn't look noticeably sharper to me than the 1x shots and you know I don't know how are they the I mean maybe I didn't pick the best wants to crop out but I mean it's just it it's a massive difference to me versus the one ex I mean HTC uh the One X camera is 8 megapixels as well but the thing I always say is that it's usable resolutions probably closed three or five megapixels or something more reasonable like that I feel like um the galaxies freeze the closest phone to actually giving us an 8 megapixel usable image coasters phone outside of us hip nokia n8 it just it just is that good anything they don't wait right yeah you don't wait which is on sale yet so god damn i don't get me started in the 808 this does a camera Chris that's not really into camera that happens to have a kind of smartphone sort of it you know it also by the way doesn't matter at all until it's using something other than symbian right pretty much genifique the other thing i wanted to point out about the galaxy s3 which annoyed me was the fact that you can't tap to all get auto exposure which is something i'm pretty sure you can do with the HTC phones so tap to focus would also get you 20 to expose for that spot um which is really handy when you have a really sunny day like i did and maybe you prefer to expose for the sky or prefer to expose sort of thing the foreground because usually the two are mutually exclusive so if you get the sky right the thing in the foreground looks to dock you get full bayan image right this guy looks just washed out in white again the a GMO observe said that but i would like to just tap and get the also explosion happen that way yeah I'll tell you what Android good hey Doc I oh goody remote yeah sorry I go I say there's software for iphone that lets you actually separate those two things out which I find really convenient sometimes I want to expose on this but focus on that anyway that's all yes I'm your date yar mode a good HDR mode makes such a huge difference for like everyday usability and if you'd asked me a year 18 months ago I would have said no way do I want there's software interfering with my picture taking experience that much but it makes a huge difference in what you're able to capture on the street with a bright Sun in particular it really does do sue doesn't look as natural as you would get with just a straight one shot right you just and herbal because of what is doing is compiling multiple images at different exposures and giving you a composite image at the end but exactly just say you can just get so much more detail in there which actually actually is it is perfectly reasonable that you would like a Chris because the opposite of Instagram another detail you're actually adding more detail into the picture still making it unnatural arguably which is kind of foodies photograph yeah I don't know why I'm arguing myself with myself here but but yeah it's it's it's good the one problem that I've noticed with it and this makes sense because of what it's doing like you say is that if you're taking a picture of fast motion you get some weirdness some weird ghosting just because it's you know it's taking two or three exposures and compiling them together yeah so Samsung actually when you turn a GMO Don says to keep the camera steady has a little warning message yeah which could bring me back to the South spider I don't wanna you know we review the galaxy s3 because I'm aware not everybody is enthused about a four point eight inch phone which again it's big you know it's big um as good it has good economics but it's a big phone and I'm still keen to see something like this in the HTC one s size range like for 4.3 inches I'm sure somebody will do it and we sell a lot of phones there's there's a lot go ahead go ahead now you have it ready just enough sinkage arable it really is we're having just enough sync issues so that like it's impossible to talk over each other um I shouldn't call them sync issues it's just like you know it's it comes part and parcel with the move to video like I think that you need to relearn your your dynamic when you're talking because otherwise you get this this weird train wreck stuff but uh anyone was against oh yeah was gonna say is that I think and we've talked about this before the fact that that we're still kind of in this state where consumers particularly Americans but I think that they're kind of pushing this philosophy worldwide believe that there is a one-to-one Association there's it there's a linear relationship between the size of the display and the high ended pneus yeah phone and and I think I'm hoping that within a couple years that philosophy will kind of dissipate and yeah for 4.5 to 5.3 inch phone start to become standard place and that no longer becomes a focus of attention and they can say okay well now we're gonna do a four inch or a 4.3 inch and people won't won't think that that's a crappy phone yeah no I totally agree but yeah I do want to wrap up the guest as free as i was saying the thing with this version of TouchWiz first of all is called nature UX again completely useless pointless intuitive and helpful branding from Samsung there's pretty much nothing nature UX see about it they have the water ripple on the lock screen and that's pretty much it but it's clean right the app launcher the app tray is fully customizable you can arrange it anywhere you like you can hide icons it's pretty much transparent so you just see your home screen wallpaper behind it there's just no noise and extra junk around it it reminds me I respect your mother the air colored either that's right they got rid of lot of thing ever to a lot of the the candy color stuff I mean this is the yeah this is be gone for a while now but it's it's nice and subtle they've got you know gradients that aren't completely overwhelming yeah yeah yeahs knows it totally I mean most of it as I say he's just kind of feels boss and just acceptable again I feel like ice cream sandwich itself is a more cohesive a visual experience but there's very little that you can point to in this version of TouchWiz and say oh this is a nightmare this is dragging things back holding things back the thing that is going to go hold things back is when jelly bean turns up and the Galaxy Nexus gets it a week later and then your Galaxy S fries like yeah we'll do it in a month or two them no that's a beautiful that's a beautiful dream Vlad remember how long it took the the nexus one to get gingerbread okay how long you guys some negatives people have waited to get ICS like this is the sprint version of the nexus s only got ICS what like three or four weeks ago okay but we're never the galaxy s the Galaxy Nexus gets the next version of android you you can be assured of waiting a minimum of one or two months I this is the most optimistic projection ever you can be sure to waiting a minimum couple of months and before the galaxy s3 gets and this is the thing that bugs me about it's getting the fact that it's very existence is still going to delay the updating of this phone relative to a stock device um again we're not going to harp on this issue again I just wanted to point out I mean yeah the good things about the skin are actually there's a quick settings whole bunch of quick setting tacos in the notifications menu and again Samsung has done a whole bunch of little tweaks that you can read full review to actually taking this with no the notification screen toggles are bomb like that is one of the very few customizations over stock that I fully support and something that of course cyanogenmod has been doing for a long time it's awesome it's great yeah but it so so like I said the skin itself is extremely comparable 200 four-point-oh in terms of user experience it's not going to get in your way um I am just worried about first of all the immediate of upgrade and when it might happen to the next version of android and then following that the fact that Samsung has a really terrible track back we'd software updates again this was something I felt compelled to including my conclusion because as awesome as this phone is today you're not going to be signing up to the company with the best track record for updating his phones like if you did what I forget Lisa one important point I'd like to make is that I feel like in the past year yeah bout the last year most major android oems have shown some amount of remorse uh and and and an apology around that the the entire update process and some have kind of tried to repent a little bit we've seen sony ericsson now sony Mobile yeah you know that they did a really early alpha of their ICS update for some of their experience HTC of course has started to become very good about that Motorola has tried to be very transparent not fast but transparent and Samsung i think is kind of a notable exception and they are a very important exception because of course they are a huge huge supplier of android devices and there's no question that the gs3 is going to sell tens of millions of devices around the world so it would be nice to see them kind of commit to some sort of structure even if it's not instantaneous even if they if they can just put out a roadmap and be very transparent about what's going to happen with these devices once they're out there in the field that would that yeah I mean to your point that would just make me a lot more comfortable sure great but I think we're done we began his history no I want to talk about you know that would be a great time to to talk about what happened with with webos because uh I don't know if anybody if you're watching the video may have noticed uh but there are currently firemen uh walking into my apartment I just moved and they have set up a brand-new fire alarm speaker intercom alert system and they decided they need to test it right now so that sounds really fast yeah it's it's great it's amazing I've got stupid kindness running all over my apartment and dudes tramping around in the background so I'll be back when they're done hopefully it won't take more than five or ten minutes okay good luck if we do here here for like half an hour we'll just just keep checking on the video feed from time to time and if you see open flames the test has failed well like I said Roger that line is the deadline is half an hour and if you don't come back then you're just permanently written off of the show it's just well at night after that yeah I'm good I mean we're gonna miss you but you know who-who plowin well yeah we'll move on so one more thing I wanted to say about the galaxy s3 because we we moved on is that you gave it an 8.5 right hmm and and that that neatly straddles the Tegra 3 version of the 1x at 8.4 and the the Snapdragon s4 version of the the 1x at 8.6 so I think we can we can agree that regardless of which of these three devices you buy you're probably going to be happy now certain regional variants of the galaxy s3 we've long believed will not be using the Exynos processor which hasn't proven pretty superlative in terms of performance and so we'll have to see what happens with these regional rights but I'm assuming that even the regional differences will still be s4 which is a great processor so exact I don't know if that's gonna be a concern or not in fact it may raise the score will see ya I expected my do because if that 20 100 million power battery stays where it is and you stick a Snapdragon s4 next to it and that phone is gonna last you a long long time it smart phone terms yeah like yeah I expect that will be really impressive that's four sips power relatively speaking compared to my old circa 2002 nokia dumb phone it's still a power hog but i digress i think those days are gone but the days of going a week on a single charge will never come back it doesn't matter how far battery technology advanced osaze i misses a days they were amazing days like it's like you don't realize about to go off on a really philosophical tangent here but i don't think that you realize just how much um it worrying about your phone's battery level effects you're your daily life like it actually has like a measurable effect on how you plan where you go and when you go there and you know do I need to be near an outlet do I need to bring my charger with me um what happens if my phone dies like am I gonna be able to find my way home which my hotel or you know whatever it is that you may be doing do I need to be connected on email because I'm expecting a really important email like there are all these considerations that didn't used to be there yes Chris look at this and this is gonna be very helpful to our audio podcast systems but as a massive display on this phone this is this effect I mean no you can you could own a blackberry today you know room is going to very kindly sell your blackberry with a tiny freaking screen with the tiny freaking resolution but you don't want to do that so the trade of that we've basically chosen to make ourselves to have a massive Amongus gorgeous screen in our pockets which yeah i think that opens up a whole new set of issues rightly because it to a certain extent it has to do with shelf appeal like you walk into a carrier store and your battery life is not the first thing on your mind you're looking s tree at how cool the phone looks and you know what is capable of doing can it play these awesome games so you might buy a phone based on that and besides even if you were worried about battery life sort of natural selection in the phone industry has eliminated a lot of those power sipping options from the lineup anyway like OEM sarn't working on I'm like I think of what's a good pic see right the palm pixi which is actually a mold premature on this but would be a nice transition into our next topic um yeah if more phones were in that category um I think they might do pretty well and that's not to say that we don't have we don't have like free Android phones out there like the Optimus series is still out there but I would really like to see more devices that have displays between say I don't know 2.2 to 2.8 inches single core processor processors would still run gingerbread and even ICS just fine just look at the nexus s so I mean um in this code kind of gets back to what we were saying earlier about four displays right there's no reason they're there is no good reason that Samsung and HTC can't come up with a quote-unquote high-end 4-inch to 4.3 inch phone it in fact they have the 1s but the problem is that the carriers just don't want to push it I guess one exception would be t-mobile's blaze 4g but um you know I mean who owns a blaze 4g I mean come on really but besides that I mean it's not just enough to have more devices in the pixi form factor everyone is still trying to give you the same smartphone experience in spite of the smaller for fact and I think that's the wrong way to go about it like if you're gonna sell me a phone in the size of the pixie you're gonna have to sell me a phone without all the bells and whistles of a full-sized 4-inch foreign chin above smartphone you know right um I don't know exactly what you're going to trade off what you're going to throw out and I mean I don't think you should sacrifice the camera for example I think there's no reason why you can't fit a good camera module one of those devices but there's applications is things like mapping applications which is on is useful so you do have to have a user experience which is custom to that screen size that form factor and you know the previous user experience that was you know Nokia's bread and butter meat and potatoes whatever are the metaphor you want to come up with was a much more limited user experience in which case the much more limited screen size wasn't a problem or is he trying he was like you mean symbian oh yeah I don't want to name names here come on so so so you're not you're knocking windows phone is also um no I'm not talking about in the windows phone oh well I mean we're talking about the five seven ten years ago like he was saying about the week on Betterlife well I'm so so wait let me get this straight let me get this right you you you're worried about rocking the boat by knocking a 10 year old phone is that is that what just happened yeah but i mean this is this is tradition about not speaking ill of the dead and I don't want to do that okay I could fair enough fair enough Leslie just let sleeping cynthians lie or a stinking sport ever seriously I am actually interested in this new news about any oh and about HB I think that a little exclusive on that I think you wrote it Chris we did we we we blew the the proverbial doors wide open these two giant oak indoors where were you know we're out there and I just blew them I I put explosives around the base of this these giant french doors solid oak and I put pigs I put explosives along the bottom place was he could have opened them no I you know for a fact it's a dramatic thing right so I put put all this all these explosives around at the base of these these beautiful French doors and and wired them to explode through a you know an Android app and and then went off with my with my with my galaxy s3 my mythical galaxy s3 that I don't actually have and press the button and these doors flew wide open kaboom uh is the complete waste of time I would just wasted like three minutes of this podcast um yeah so the story is that a significant portion of the contributing members of the n yo team at HP which is sort of a a it isn't core to open webOS but it is part of the overarching project and is closely it is particularly closely related for developers for the platform but a number of these these these core players in that group left to go to Google um which is interesting on a variety of levels right because yeah I I think that as I mentioned in the post even even if you never were a webos fan I think that you needed to be kind of impressed by what they managed to pull off that they were way ahead of their time in terms of implementing an entire UI particularly on that form factor in in html5 effectively and and so to have members of that crew go off to Google is very interesting and we don't have confirmation on what group inside Google those guys are gonna be working with but there are two obvious choices right a1 is android of course um you know webos de android makes a lot of sense with the other night we think eventually but the more intriguing possibility is chrome / chrome OS because I now will be a waste of resources I don't think so especially I mean this is not the place to talk about it but David review David Pierce reviewed this new Chromebook today along with aura which by the way I'm extremely envious of cuz i am one of the three people in the world who love loves Chromebooks I absolutely adore them that yes I use a series 5 basically every day of my life reason being that it prevents me from doing a lot of things that would be a waste of time I'm forced to concentrate on the task at hand whether that be writing a document or doing email because they're just not very capable devices so it's kind of a very strange reason to be in love with a device but so the this new Chromebook is really awesome device and I think I mean there's no sign that Google is backing down from this initiative right so and and they need to push that story the story around html5 apps has come very far you look at something like the Financial Times app for iOS for the ipad it blows my mind every time I open it because you cannot i have yet to find a way to tell that that is a web app once its installed on the device I mean it's to the to the average to the average iPad buyer you can't I mean that there probably is a way to figure out that that you're looking at a web app but I cannot and so that's really amazing it's really encouraging for the future of this of this way of doing things and so I think that there's a long way to go in pushing that story forward and people that are working that we're working on web West and any one particular which is the app the underlying application framework and the developer tools around that it tab those people join a group like chrome I think would be very interesting but again we don't know they they could be going to Android which be interesting for entirely different reasons but we'll see i I'm sorry subscription but defended I'm picking up on is first of all ever since HP announced the weather was to go in open schools after like that just a way to avoid saying okay with putting into the trash so as far as I was concerned that was the writing on the wall whoever wears I mean I don't remember anything coming back from going open source any piece of software coming back from that mostly because it's kind of a recent trend with the you know me go maemo previously now Tizen different generations different names for the same software the stem succeeded samsung I believe was thinking about open sourcing bother it's what you do we put software out to pasture but exactly to say I feel like people should at least be curious about webos and its future and to me this again signals the fact that people don't see any future in a proper Webber was going anywhere near the mainstream market and then moving on to new places and I think the move to Google is pretty obvious as far as from as far as my perspective as an outsider goes in so far as the edge of joining up with Matias Duarte who used to be their leader yeah yeah well there are a lot of people there are a lot of people from palm that are now working for google and other places I mean it the valley is a small place right like a people keep crossing paths there but yeah I think that that this probably signals yeah if the if the open-source move and the discontent discontinuation of hardware last year didn't signal the end of webos I think this certainly does to have that have that many people leave at once and go to a quote unquote competitor is is a real vote of no confidence and and replacing replacing staff I mean it's not like they can just bring people in and boom they're back in business right they need to rant people at first they need to find good people people that are as good or better than the people that left and then they need to they need to train them and it's it's a whole thing and there's no sign HP has not since they made the open-source announcement they have never once indicated a solid non wishy-washy commitment to to making uh to doing anything other than pumping a few dollars into this open source initiative there's no sign that we're getting new hardware which is all I mean the end of the day that's all anyone cares about is whether this is going to be on any device and there's no sign of that so until somebody says and you know until HP or somebody else says we're making a new webos device it's completely irrelevant even then even if it's a major OEM introducing a new webos device then a huge uphill battle because why are people going to why are people going to buy this device know when they didn't buy a better supported device with more money being thrown at it a year ago or 18 months ago or two years ago so it's it's it's not it's not pretty no it's not it's not i agree i mean it's a it's a sad state of affairs but then also i'm reminded of the fact that when HP took over palm matières what it was not the only member of the senior team to leave as soon as that happened i mean i believe jon rubinstein might have been the one that held out the longest but everywhere everybody else pretty much everybody else from the senior team jumped right and yeah John didn't leave until recently but he had been very very quiet inside HP for you know a year before that I mean we know it was inside HP he who couldn't get off on holiday just you know formalistic Lee being part of the team it does seem like HP had some idea which coincided with absolutely nobody at palm or the thinking of nobody parm and HP seiko was evidently pause the word I come in with the word of antagonistic is the wrong one but it's it's when you when you take over a company that doesn't really want to be taken over by you I'm sure each people some palms first choice a lot of disagreements happened and now maybe you know the lower members the guys from lower down the rungs also escaping the ship well I think that that at the very beginning of the HP purchase I think that there was some enthusiasm both inside HP and inside palm that there might be a way to make this work and that probably quickly vanished once the CEOs started you know you started getting that CEO musical chair stuff going on Leo came in mark hurd left Leo came in Leo was forced out and make a min and you know it's I you know I I don't think you can say really anything positive about Leo is here from it from it from a consumer here is there a crazy thought about what if Mark Hurd has stayed around at HP and come through with whatever initial vision the head for the palm take over maybe that would have been a success do you think that is a viable possibility or am I just catching the straws it no it's I think anything's possible you know that the problem is that there are so many variables you go back and look at what happened in the past four years to that company now not just post HP but PHP with the you know the fact that they started with a sprint exclusive and the fact that uh basically a six-month delay between announcement release all these factors uh could have had a really significantly detrimental effect on the market performance of these devices and we don't know what combination of those decisions and realities ultimately did the men but it they certainly contributed right yeah i just realized that I'm shaking my camera so there's no earthquake in Chicago I since I've lived here i moved here in what about ten years ago I'm dullahan I vote yes I've only lived through one earthquake in Chicago which is extremely rare um and is a it was a i think a five point 0 in southern Illinois that we felt all the way in Chicago so it's just like it was like six or 630 in the morning and my bed was just very gently kind of shaking that is the one and only earthquake I've ever experienced in this city so when you see my camera shaking I just want to apologize you don't have to worry about my safety or well-being the earth is not moving it's just me okay and I can actually distribute I just did it again so I can figure it a bit of quick trivia that picked up recently the Richter scale which is the one the scale for the magnitude of an earthquake it goes up it literally in orders of magnitude so something rated at five is ten times weaker than something rated at six which in turn is ten times weaker than something rated at seven so a magnitude eight earthquake is something like yes it's a thousand times stronger than a magnitude 5 and your honor yeah for whatever reason I had never been known that about the wood scale yeah I was just like go to scale so kind of know that an eighth and above is pretty crazy and scary and 506 is pretty tolerable but now I know yeah if you lived in San Francisco or Tokyo you would probably have known that by now potentially it's just that London is London is not really a seismic zone as far as I know no we London is pretty much nowhere near any Teutonic plate boundaries yes that we're pretty clever in that respect I don't have to say all these cities that are built just erected on tectonic plate boundaries like San Francisco I just bum consume me I really love the idea of San Francisco i think is a great city but it's in the wrong freaking place but there are streets which actually spanned the San Andreas Fault so hey you know while while the ground and the knee view the physical element of which you stand is moving in two opposing directions you decide that you will build a cement road on top of that and expect it to last how long I think there is a there's a very a deep sociological study to be done there around the creation of cities and not just earthquake zones but in like disaster zones in general like Miami is another good example that they're getting pounded by disastrous of hurricanes once or twice dear right um and so yeah I think that there's a whole that that's a whole that's got to be a whole like topic of you know why why civilization has created these wonderful places in really dangerous areas in your right san francisco i mean like they had a you know just a tremendously devastating earthquake in the early part of the 1900s but of course chicago yeah the Great Chicago Fire uh in the 1800s this is O'Leary's cow that whole story knocked over a lantern and set the whole city on fire so you know you don't necessarily need a natural disaster to completely destroy a town Chicago came back to and I'm sure Chris the other thing is i neva none in london is burnt more often than gosh I don't know room stock price but I see when you're there that's nice that was very very nice and and the news today with respect to rim that's squeeze that in is that it's has halted trading because it has hired i believe JP Morgan to advise it on a big strategic reassessment which is likely to result in a bunch of job cuts so right things have gotten so dire in severe that the stock market has decided not to trade of shares because expect people might go crazy and just completely nuke the share price which is already at a very low level it's actually really surprised you might say they're valuing an emergency right now oh man are you kidding me um if it's really surprising to me by the way everyone that was that was dieter bohn coming to us live from ceasefire lager there is apparently an earthquake yeah his fire alarm um so it's actually really surprising to me that this kind of setup set off this firestorm on the stock market because uh it was known there was that Bloomberg p i think it was Bloomberg piece that went around was it to two and a half three months ago where they were talking about the fact that they were going to hire both a Canadian and an international bank to advise them on what their next move should be I think that that torsten talked about it a little bit on list earnings call so I don't understand why this is a surprise the fact that they're bringing outside help to figure out what to do I don't get it now I'm really people should have been already projecting for that I mean I believe two or three days ago at most I was over the weekend at this popped up there was speculation that room is looking to chop 2,000 jobs out of a 6500 the overall number of employees so that's something like top set of its whole workforce just being chopped off so you know that projection that expectation materializer can but maybe maybe the market didn't bind to the rumors until was actually materialized in this hiring at the company but then as you say Chris room has already foreshadowed its own demise we should look I would have seen would be I would not quite as hilarious necessarily but yes yeah I mean to the Myers Chris I believe we were in witnessing a demise I I hope for that for the sake of the market I hope that you're wrong now because I'm a particularly big rim fan but because i'm a fan of competition huh I really angry i am going to be happy that i don't have to learn everything about Weber Wesson whatever rim does with snacks failure blackberry operating system it's gonna keep my life simpler to only have to know about android and iOS but it isn't as diverse it is in his way windows phone by the program windows phone ah well this one is gonna have to prove itself to me I'm honestly I'm tired Windows Phone I'm tired of calling in the 30 who's this by default I'm excited either step up your game you know make it 25 percent market share you know step off I'm excited for Apollo so other one so he's magic is this phone I'm the hater windows for Nokia's actually made some strides in China right that kind of made the rounds in the past few it's the fact they're really kind of gaining some inroads there and that's not only the finest particularly high margin record for them probably but um but that's good you know those actually there is the dates about Windows Phone in China somebody came up with that saying windows phone is more market share than a western China and then somebody else I think much more liable statisticians show data that it doesn't well look II I mean we're just gonna go see China we can say that I'm trying to spin Windows Phone as hard as I can here I will say this you know I've been saying but before the launch of mango I was saying i can't wait for mango and actually I could live with mango I could realistically live with me i'm still trying to live with mango / tango on the 900 the only big problem is the lack of a decent gmail client and the fact that when you go to gmail's mobile view in mobile internet explorer it doesn't take it it takes you to the website which is like such a slap in the face like I totally get why Google hasn't bothered to invest the time into making their gorgeous iOS webview work on Windows Phone but for goodness sakes I mean like Google perhaps more than any other company in the in the world is known for spending random amounts of money and time and time on things that aren't necessarily going to pay off the they aren't necessarily going to see return on investment with so you know for the for the benefit of the the Windows Phone users out there however few there maybe please just get that web you working I would be in hog heaven if if if they got that working I would be I would finally be in a situation with mango where I could use a Windows Phone device for time and not feel weird or or paralyzed by it like I do now and so but anyway back to my original point I was saying I was really excited about mango mango came out it didn't it wasn't the blockbuster that anyone wanted to be tango of course isn't really anything and then Apollo I once again I'm saying oh I'm excited about Apollo but you know at some point we need to stop being excited about versions of Windows Phone and just you know see a really good platform out there so um yes yeah I don't know I don't know man like I feel really weird about it because you there are enough compelling third party apps on that platform now so that I really do have my 900 within a stone's throw of being usable full time for me gmail is a killer I can't think of other thought my head I can't think of any other single thing on there I guess that I am experienced isn't great for a variety of reasons that the multitasking system is is just one key enough so that doesn't work very well and you store your credentials on a remote server that you don't know anything about but i have i have google two-step authentication working with it cuz there's the third party client that does it just fine um google voice works great it's so you're talking yourself into it man it comes to give you so so many reasons why it's worth doing it now I mean that you to me I can't even begin I thought listen two reasons why i like using android um while like using it why I feel the need for it well you're trying to by the way I think Peters back I'm back now yes I've having lived through the greatest nightmare of my entire life that was horrendous and I'm why fret i letting some of the audio get through a little bit um but I'm back it's set up I I heard Chris's rant about Windows Phone and I I agree wholeheartedly agree with what with what side of it that you should keep trying and failing to make it your primary main phone until it is and that Vlad and I can back and watch you make excuses for why you're still doing that look we're latest phone is very very simple microsoft needs to stop cooking and serve up something that's actually done it a no more excuses it's done this is good you know you know if you can talk about it's not it's just not done in a place where we can i use a prison to just all you is being served ah like but it's not cooked no guys no no here it is windows phone is done it's just that there's they put it on a menu along with a t-bone steak and lobster but really it's just turn it up mac and cheese mac and cheese is delicious actually was delicious but they should they should quit selling it like it's gourmet like its advantages it's not easy that is bad but a really good analogy for you if you think back to mwc of this year are you thinking with me barcelona i am a lessening anybody else okay okay but think think about that time when you and a group of our colleagues really hungry and you have me as you guide to take you to place a okay if you remember that time and how long it actually took me to find the perfect place for us to eat and the fact that you nearly killed me and the way there because i said it was like two blocks over and I think of something like 10 des yeah where Microsoft finds itself right now with Windows Phone it's it's no you guys seriously slum is one polk always won't work ogle where is it no here's the thing okay it and you need to take this challenge for yourself I sound like a total Microsoft she'll right now but it needs to be said but I challenge you to use a Windows Phone device and tell me exactly what's missing I told you exactly what's missing from my experience I need better gmail that's it I can't find anything else that prevents me from using the 900 full-time so so I put it I put it on you guys to tell me exactly what it is that's missing from windows phone for you that prevents you from using it full-time a proactive using it is a proper uh not proper cuz I mean what's proper I mean really but a more robust back rounding and multitasking experience you know even one minute you know that I yep and an IM app and skype are going to be able to receive incoming messages when I come back to them if that if that means full multitasking great if that means what iOS does we're like some things are sort of multitasking but not but at least there's some really clear defined boundaries of what is it isn't running fine if that means all of those apps actually using Microsoft's currently defined boundaries because they're just not doing it right now fine but it's just it's just not there yet for the the specific tasks that I need on a phone and I'm sorry multitasking that's as good as the multitasking on the One X that's what you're looking at yeah it's not much to ask is it no it's not it really isn't however some alternative answers for what's missing first of all there isn't a robust gathering area for notifications assume who android is the leader in that respect I feel I always caught up but still reason is nice and clean with pulling your notifications together as Andrew it is and I think windows phone is behind both of those I think windows phone is severely missing a properly usable home screen which is gonna be controversial but ultimately I'm whenever we seeing six or eight tiles on my home screen and we've heard his tale about lifestyles for ages but I don't see a much life add action or activity on my home screen with a windows phone I don't see any used by the animations apart from letting me know that the phone hasn't frozen up I actually really like the immediate and glanceable nature of seeing forum ready emails free miss Cole's two messages etc but that's that only takes three tires and you're taking up you know sixty percent of my screen to do that I don't like that it's not mature to me like maybe for some people who only use those particular things and use them extensively and really in-depth and maybe the Facebook integration works in that respect Facebook messaging may be worse for them but not for me like I really like to have a home screen that can give me access to a whole bunch of things I like to actually stick to just one home screen with Android and just stack it up with folders and icons and applications and useful things and maybe have a second everyone for the rare few witches that i use and that's it and when it's all over those on on Android I've got just a mix of like calendar and contact widgets and you no folders so yeah your calendars last year's windows file has a really easy solution to this give me a pinch to zoom option where the current view of the home screen can just be shrunken down so all the tiles can be shrunken down maybe if I have like a bunch of contacts that have into my start menu I don't want to scroll 15 times to get to them I just want to have be able to see more of a base and and this also works really well with the expected increase in resolution for Windows Phone Apollo right so you raise the resolution you give people the option to see more of the home screen wildlife tiles it's win-win but it doesn't exist I think that some more flexibility for the size and shape of the live tiles is actually in order I'd like to see some more you know I get that Metro is all about that the whole square look and they can still be you know rectangles you don't need to be like rhombuses or trapezoids although that would be cool but but having it you know hey say you have I think of a good example the calendar application in Windows Phone should have a number of selectable live tiles for size and for for display for what it looks like for what it shows for the information that it shows and right now that yes I don't think that I've ever seen there might be a couple weather apps I've seen it in but by and large you don't have a lot of configurability for what ends up showing up in the law of Thailand I've definitely never seen a Windows Phone app that has that allows you to choose between a half with and a full width live tile I've never seen that I don't know how this was over to you how do we get on the dealers robbery wasn't like treacherous phone I don't living the nightmare of the 20 minute lemme show the second whyever it usually happens that way we talk about God's break and then we stumble into Windows Phone everybody have you guys when I was living that nightmare talked about the the new iphone back plate I don't have images that leaked out no we haven't we should do because I would like to so a couple images have leaked out a 9to5 mac they show a slightly elongated iphone with the headphone jack at the bottom of the device next to it looks like a larger area for speakers and the smaller dock connector and supposedly it will probably add up to a screen that's the you know 11 36 x 640 which is just shy of a 4-inch screen and I gotta say I it's not a radical new design um but I I like it better than the straight glass it looks like they're gonna have some sort of you know two-tone thing going on there maybe that's a metal back there I think it looking every good the one thing i don't like about it is the the grill along the bottom it doesn't look micro drilled the way they do unlike the macbook or of course like you know HTC is doing with the 1x the they look like giant holes and it'll expand it hopefully that's yeah that's yeah yeah another thing that i'll point out is that i the the the new dock connector looks about the same size as an MHL / micro USB port I'm sure it's not either one of those things but it's about the same size hmm but what I was gonna say is I'm in agreement with data I think I think we are getting a really good idea even if these are not legitimate images because we've seen of coming from a couple of different sources and they seem to corroborate each other of this elongated the 4-inch ish iphone case even if they're not legitimate images there the shaping up to be showing us where the next iPhone is going so we're most likely going to get this four-inch iphone where the screen has been stretched vertically I i can offer many complaints about the appearance of it but the look of it but it kind of bothers me that Apple is keeping the straight edges all around the sides and once is probably won't have to be expected because consistent with the appearance at the a 44 in the oven for us but I'd still nothing they're good ergonomically a career Elena like you like like the iphone / iphone 3g yeah yeah I mean I I didn't think I did I'm gonna first time I saw di from poor design I was like yeah this is a manly phone this is a phone for me finally now this fancy shmancy you know curved iphone nonsense but actually what turns out is that the devices with the curve bags are the absolutely most comfortable once you can have and i do you feel like a little companies making this trade-off of going for more angular more rigid looking phones because they know them more appealing to people because you know there was so better there will be as Chris was saying earlier it'll be more appealing when you just see them in the store but actually the ones would have wrote him back the ones that just kind of look frumpy I guess are pretty comfortable ones and this included is I could say the iphone the early iphone generations the 3gs it includes the Nexus S which and Rami does his fellows running with phones I think completo galaxy s free oh yeah yeah Madonna but the galaxy s3 is not the most attractive phone in the world either exactly and I know I know that because I've had a lot of reform I rating for its design yahoo like no do you do not know what you're talking about do you have your glasses on etc etc about his appearance and I really don't care because when you start using a phone the only thing you're looking at is its display the actual back of it the design of the back of it doesn't matter when you're using the phone how it looks does matter are me if deeply Mets us how it feels in your hand yeah any fears no just fine so that's actually the one of the larger screen like these guys think we're gonna see something significantly different with iOS 6 to take advantage of that extra space or is it just gonna be an extra icons whatever like yeah me very much extra row of icons and stretching out content within apps maybe adding maybe more menu rose or something but that would be it I guess I think I think that they you know um so I think it's a foregone conclusion that Noah cos six they're going to do something more with the the widgets in the pulldown and I don't think that long-term those widgets can live in the pulldown alone and it would make a lot of sense to me that you would be able to position those widgets on the home screen you know taking up the full width of the screen maybe I don't know but if you could have those interspersed with icons I don't know how that would work exactly i'm not a UI expert but I I hope that they don't long-term that those widgets don't only live in that pull down because they're useful and they're cool and obviously we want to see developers be able to take full advantage of those and you don't want them just buried up in that Kurt curtain something with that yeah I mean they'll have to rethink their home screen experience though because I mean yeah right now it's just app there's there no with Android there's a separation between home screen and app drawer right i think that apple doesn't want to have that separation but I mean how how would you manage widgets you need some way to do that they're like they're right up against the ragged edge of like what they can do with the current I mean we've talked about this a bunch right but it seemed like if you're gonna be a larger screen if they go to the 4-inch screen and all they do is add an extra row of icons and you know give out the api's to like have a stretch tap area and whatever and that's it I will be very unhappy because like that extra you know half inch of the screen space I think will really show like okay this is tired compared to what other you eyes are doing right now so one thing that I would point out correct me if I'm wrong but I think that this is an unusually long amount of time between the last iOS preview event and now right like it's been a long time so I'm sure we'll see that is sure yeah yeah cuz I think the last event was in maybe march 2011 Upper Iowa I've something like that is there about yeah yeah yeah so they'll obviously show that at WWDC I'm hopeful that considering the amount of time that has lapsed since last iOS event uh that's gonna be kind of a pretty significant version bump and we'll see some cool things all they need to do to make me happy is make the stupid 72 degree in sunny weather icon do something else just just show me crazy that's it just show me the local weather I will become an iphone user for life uh especially now that Sparrow is out like I can make do without without notifications it's not the end of the world but the email experience on iOS is is of course terrible um but then again like I was saying earlier you have the web view which is actually very good but but you know now the of Sparrow give me live icons I'm good to go never touch android or or windows phone again that's not true obviously but um but no I mean I'm sure I mean look I've owned I've owned every iphone that has ever come to market I'm sure all on the next iPhone and how long I remain on that iphone is going to depend almost solely on the software not on the hardware because the the 4s is still a really fantastic device the only the only complaint I can really Lodge it well to complaints one is lack of LTE into is the small screen but but either start our deal breakers to me at the software is perfect um and and I think I would actually say this queen is a deal breaker for me at this point well yeah you can a desktop he's been five inches but every time you put it right next to another stuff you kind of make law why don't I have that bigger one there's so much more information on a can read so much more yeah yeah fair enough does help that there's a no lag on iOS so like dragging stuff around a bit more information you don't have like it's always you know exactly paper movement you know with your finger right right and you thought frame i'm moving and pretending like i'm scrolling an iphone it's amazing it's blowing my mind it makes me want to switch back honestly so that helps I don't think I think they need me you know something embarrassing the third of course is fun about excitement I cover a couple of retweets I've seen in my twitter stream particularly from Steve Tyler Smith we're from wwc attending developers and they were actually looking at that Widow is DC schedule which is Apple's Worldwide Developer Conference it just got released the keynote will be on jun 11 it lasts between jun 11 jun 15 and the thing that they were actually looking at was how many sessions there were four developers which were to be announced because that is actually their metric for telling how much is going to be new and exciting and then there are a bunch apparently so we can look forward to some new hotness just uh no way I'm going up in a tree see it's really soon yeah gene alerts coming right up but unfortunately blend unfortunately Vlad I'm gonna have to reach through uh the the video feed and punch you in the face for saying new hotness I i draw the line with that phrase i I just can't get down with that raise i'm sorry i wish you you're okay maybe no suit and talking about Fast and the Furious uh for a half hour a day but yeah hotness can't no kid no not not half an hour a day dieter it's gonna be 90 minutes a week big difference Oh Chris yeah Chris I am like 20 minutes that'll be terrible i am going to invoke something many black free i have been led to believe is in cinemas over new nine states and there's a new hotness as everybody knows was invented by will smith in men in black one therefore because men in black there is a mini black movie in its as at the moment I am technically allowed to use new hotness without sounding old and busted sure I'll let it slide this once okay well uh oh yes you bought that when I'm glad I'm uh I'm not I'm not letting it slide but i'm not letting it slide in the same way you don't you don't yell at you know your grandpa for calling somebody a hepcat you know it's just not his fault you know okay doesn't am sorry I think back um and we discussed everything I mean I was gone for half the podcast listening to insane fire alarms is there anything else that you guys want to hit quick before we sign off for the yet our first show yes yes I don't think that we can sign off without talking about the the renewed facebook phone rumors um this is this is a so you know there have been facebook phone rumors on and off for what 18 months at least and and I think you know where there's smoke there's fire I don't think it's plausible at this point that there isn't anything going on I think that at the very least Facebook is exploring this idea i think that you know famously over the past few months is they've they've gone through their IPO they've been talking a lot about the fact that like they haven't found a monetization model for mobile yet and I you know I it's very easy to believe that Facebook believes that that creating a smartphone at the very least a smartphone platform might be central to that to that strategy but man getting into the the smartphone market is not easy just ask palm just SHP just ask a sprint I mean ran SRAM in a year yeah yeah so I mean I just don't know in it you know I know they're they're riding a wave of of money and greatness right now but it's it's gonna be tough for him it really is best case scenario it's still gonna be tough for him I think that that a very likely scenario for those guys is that they're gonna pull an Amazon right they'll they'll fork Android and go off and do whatever with it and of course facebook you know they already have an app platform it's very easy to sort of build in your mind exactly how this would work but yeah I mean was so what they're gonna they're gonna launch exclusively on eighteen t or verizon or whatever and then what what's what's the next step after that are they you know yeah it's an issue and it's also about in the issue the issue for me is what defines success for a facebook phone like if they need to get to like twenty percent market share in order for this thing to count as a success they're know they're in a world of hurt that's gonna be super hard but if they can you just get it out there as a way to I don't know pressure other phone manufacturers to start you know doing more with Facebook software and sign up or partnerships and maybe they can use it as a way to gain some market share in certain emerging markets or you know something targeted where they're not trying to compete in the same way that windows phone and android and iOS are trying to compete then you know that could be interesting but I just don't know what that look I'll be really use a beginner I don't understand how Facebook would be able to do that what you suggest either of competing with that really competing like if you if you don't you go after the smartphone market back chris says you have to have a really really clear idea of what the hell it is you're going after you know you can't just be but we're going to compete with you guys but if you integrate facebook really deep into your phones will compete less hard and that will somehow be okay for Facebook's bottom line it's going to be really confused idea I also don't understand how they're going to do because their problem is facebook wants to be ubiquitous on mobile devices I don't think Facebook can afford to not be on Android out of income before to not be on iOS and the same goes for Instagram which is it's you know prize kappa its most recent a most expensive piece of software disk it has captured so you can't just introduce facebook phone and say okay you know what we're going to keep Instagram exclusive to this phone and this was going to give it a selling point we're going to keep these Facebook features of clues to this phone you need to have your features all across mobile platforms everybody says about Facebook and about how it's going to adapt to people moving to mobile devices and Facebook's go is ubiquity and yet the goal with coming out with your own phone is exactly the opposite is to have some sort of exclusive special selling point so how do you do that how do you have something that's special about your phone or at the same time trying to have your platform on every phone right okay I ain't smokin it could be smoking mirrors right they could be you know trying to fake somebody or they might be hiring some sort of ancillary crew to support the development of facebook phone through somebody like HTC or maybe Apple wants deeper integration and they're just you know I I think that there are lots of other explanations that don't ultimately lead to a quote-unquote facebook phone Facebook stranded phone on the market I mean if that's exactly what happened with the chacha right they understand the status that everybody thought that that Facebook was working on the phone and then boom all the Sun it turns out it's just a an ant or you know a standard-issue HTC android device with a facebook button on it so who never I mean it's just this idea of Facebook going for cell phone um doesn't compute for me that I mean that Facebook isn't intent on doing it I just don't see where the motivation is I don't see the clear idea and clear go behind it I don't really think that Facebook's the ultimate success is accompanying lies in monetizing the sale of devices whereas the previous strategy the one that Mark Zuckerberg has been stating over and over again is there won't be such a thing as just one Facebook phone we want every phone to be a facebook phone which is nice catch phrase and and that he wanted to distribute facebook services as widely as possible like that makes more sense to me that is more intuitive to me um but then again like you say Chris amazon used to be all about that just being platform agnostic and then all of a sudden and came out with the Amazon with the kindle fire rather and as you know very well Chris there will be in a mess of smartphone by the end of the year right oh it's happening it is it is exit I'm exactly so I wonder you something about Manhattan I'll stick I'm not convinced I'm not convinced at this point that it's gonna be end of year but we'll see it's definitely I mean one way or another so it'll be an if I think that the opportunity is like in within the Android ecosystem like you don't have to beat Android you don't have to beat iOS but you can if you can be the de facto go to answer within Android the way that the Kindle Fire basically is for android tablets within a smartphone space that's that's a real opportunity to make some real money and you don't necessarily that it's a smaller hill to climb than you know gaining you know market share just for your thing and so I think Amazon and Facebook they be kind of stupid not to you know see if they can give that a go because it does actually give them some leverage to make sure that they get on other phones because they do those other phones need to be competitive with the facebook phone and Facebook's perfectly happy to be frenemies with these other companies and say yeah sure we'll make suffer for your phone while we continue to make it for our phone um you know they're happy to do that i would think unless their phone takes off insanely and then they're like no not only facebook you know for our own hardware I think they'd be stupid to do that though I wouldn't expect him to write I mean we need to go Mac this mouthful markets do that I think back to the Ken which is it's on one level it's it's it's kind of easy to see how Facebook would would say well you know we can do the Kin right that you you know I could see them having the hubris to go into that sort of attitude um and and then I was thinking to myself well uh that's an expensive mistake because it costs Microsoft half a billion by danger and a half billion to come out with a Ken but the in reality that's pocket change these days especially you company like Facebook i mean if maybe if Facebook ultimately a tried and failed and it costs them a billion dollars yeah it hurt on the quarterly earnings report but it's not going to uh it's not going to end the company that's for sure right but that's alright but then this is another question which is how is the facebook phone by Facebook going to differ from all the facebook phone service so far cuz okay the most famous ones uh a HTC was from last year but let's not forget companies like ink and some other smaller companies I think why we might have done some may be no qual é um but a whole bunch of companies have tried to tailor their low end budget phones around the idea of being Facebook phones so it was the ink cloud touch last year i believe and there was another ring phone which really cheap and affordable and we're really centered around facebook and what android phones yeah so my question is um if facebook wants to approach the market from the Affordable side of things which kind of makes sense since you want to have the Facebook services available to her buddy it's already been done how is it going to be different I have the answer they are going to affect they're going to perfect the haptic poke uh using using that the new what is it called that the new haptics that are unlike the um they did on that new pantech tablet they're gonna have that like really advanced poke haptics its does anybody's the hook anymore on facebook i don't know that poking is still done a super poke whatever the case may be i don't know what was there a stroke yeah it's a it was one at one time it was like one of the most successful facebook apps if not the most successful so and now it's just barbell yeah okay see that other thing is your idea no I they need it needs to run flash because I need to be able to her they need you know they need Zynga they have to develop it with Zynga and get html5 facebook apps fully up on it if the facebook phone doesn't run facebook games it's a total failure right yeah that's sad I'm serious no yeah absolutely said but super nicely mmm I thought diesel was trolling but that's a really good point yeah sometimes you control and have a good point at the same time which is i've aiready the perfect sentiment to end the the inaugural virgin mobile show on trolling and sincere at the same time if you want to send us an email you can it is mobile show at the verge calm totally set that up otherwise we so on twitter i am bon flat is at blatts a bob chris is at z power and we are all at verge so catch us next week will be on video again it'll be awesome thanks so much for listening and you don't buy good you