Gadgetory

so outside my new office there's this place called rug Depot it's totally interesting they don't sell drugs at all I don't know what they do but they smoke a lot they're outside smoking all the time and it occurs to me and I know I'm not the first person to have thought of us that cell phones today occupy the exact same social space that cigarettes occupied in the 50s they're probably gonna cause you cancer for you later down the road and there's this interesting mix of social and introverted when you're on a phone it's just about you just like a cigarette is just about the drugs going into your lungs the sweet sweet nicotine but it's also social because you go out you do it in a group you're actually talking to other people it's it's the same thing basically so we're going to talk about actually I can't talk about that at all but you should still stay tuned for the Virgin Mobile show hi I'm to your bone I'm glass hello and i'm chris sigler and welcome to episode 3 of the Virgin Mobile show for the week of June eleventh we are sponsored by the Samsung Galaxy Note and I'm having a really hard time with this decision to quit smoking I miss it I intro I think that you need to just pull the trigger I really do just pull the train just just go back to smoking I should smoke in the office during the Virgin Mobile show that would be no no no oliv it last would be cool that way that would actually be pretty boss if you smoked while you're you were on the mobile show but no I actually meant that you should pull the trigger on quitting cold turkey it's what I meant oh no I did I mean I stopped using the the lozenges you know I'll bum a cigarette every now and then but um you know I mean the thing the thing about quitting smoking is it's so painful I just don't understand why I keep doing it over and over again well you just want to do more lies you don't know about right what's I've lab the quitting part is a pain for one right I just keep looking at your right months well you know what we're not going to quit any of us is cell phones that's right whether they cause cancer or not right it's you know but I think that we are all too far gone at this point even if we quit phones cold turkey we would probably get some weird stuff on our faces from heavy actually not on her face is because none of us actually use supposed to talk anymore we get right hand cancer is that such that I don't know if there is such a thing as hand cancer but you know it's interesting so there will be let's let's stop talking about cancer in hands is getting weird you should get off talking about other things that are cancerous specifically iOS 6 and icing always cheap listen so WWDC is this week here in sunny beautiful freakishly strangely beautiful and sunny San Francisco and Tim Cook on stage he announced a whole bunch of stuff new macbooks macbook with retina and they gave a I don't want to call it a preview they talked about features on iOS 6 and they said that iOS 6 is going to exist so I mean we need to run down the features that they talked about but the reason I call it cancerous is I at overall with what they showed with iOS 6 am underwhelmed and disappointed and I dearly hope that all this was was a teaser about features and not an actual preview of what iOS 6 is going to look like and be my guys leave pretty strongly no I believe pretty strongly that they are they're holding iOS 6 very close to the chest right now because they're probably going to do some interesting things with the the next iphone hardware that will tie into the software and I even think that we might see a new UI altogether significantly reskinned UI and i say that because if you look at the passbook app which we should talk a lot about yeah yeah I get the impression that that is a very different ux than what we're accustomed to seeing on iOS going all the way back two thousand seven until now and and there are some tweaks in the app store that kind of for tell where they might be thinking to you I is going to go so yeah I'm cautiously optimistic that this is going to be very different-looking OS by the time fall rolls around I mean discuss this on the previous podcasts or perhaps the one before that as well about how this four-inch iphone with a new aspect ratio is going to affect the introduction of iOS 6 and then you software and it does seem to be the case that Apple is kind of firewalled the stuff that has to do with the expanded vertical resolution what one of the one of the things that we kind of expected and didn't show up at WWDC this week is new widgets right so if Apple ends up using that vertical resolution primarily to introduce widgets primarily to introduce new functionality that is why we're not saying it today because Apple is essentially said we'll take that won't tell anybody about it yet will tell the guys about all the other new features among your especially where they hand here's the source my doom and gloom the widgets like that's exactly the thing that makes me concerned because this would have been it's a developer event this would have been the time to talk up here's how to add your own widgets to the notifications right even if they're going to do it differently later that's fine they should have at least like put out some api's for it the second thing about widgets is they introduced two new buttons into the Notification Center the tweet button and the post to Facebook button and i gotta say like that's really troubling that's like i don't know it's like a Microsoft move it's it's that's just let's just randomly sticks and buttons in the Notification Center because we've got Twitter and Facebook and you know sure maybe some people want quick buttons to tweet to and to post a facebook but to stick it in like the core of your UI just slap two buttons into the Notification Center it just seems a really like scattershot thing and if they're fighters each of you think let me hang it if they're really planning on getting on like overhauling the whole UI then why would you even bother like you know putting these things that you're going to get rid of later like they mean to put those buttons in the Notification Center and I think that it's indicative of a lack of thought about the iOS core you I maybe but we're going to say I want to clarify the most clarify them for myself so how do they function because think about covering the WWDC live event is you end up focusing on particular issues particular topics and then you miss out like half the events why are you writing about them so they basically news to me is the idea that you essentially drove down the notifications pain and then tweet whatever you're doing at the moment whether it's a thing in an application or a browser page whatever or we share it via Facebook is that what it's supposed to be there's none happening by the share button there's a there's a there's a universal you know share functionality right i think is going to let you share via the services you want to share by no this is just a quick you know quick tweet or quick facebook update button in your notification so it's just a social update but send a notification Spain right which by a way that doesn't seem like pretty superfluous stuff it's also if you don't know this dude with it we don't know that those can't be room go ok let's just say we don't know that those can't be rude I'll bet you that those can be turned off in I hope so um but I mean the thing that drives me crazy about it is that's not the best way to do it if you want to have like really quick social updates do it with your you're just tight I mean I guess I'm i guess i'm asking for west but like that was that's a much better system you just type out the status update you want you attach a picture and then you pick the services you want to post to rather than having just random but install the notification erica i got a house i'll get off this hobby horse but I really it really does bother me it really does make me concerned I make well that's a few calor that's how not thinking through it like they ought to be your suggestion is also how Windows Phone works yeah when you want to post status update it actually there are some checkbox it's like you want to post this to windows live Facebook or Twitter I think are the options yeah yeah and also let's also get some credits windows phone for the addition of deep linking within applications um the fact that you can take a subsection of an application and pin that to your home screen in your lifetime yeah um it makes oh yeah yes so my thinking is that's exactly the sort of thing that Apple and Android should be to emulate I think some applications and some things in Android allow you to do that particularly with axing your contacts immediately and all that stuff but yeah Apple Apple's iOS has been really limited in that respect this is why we're talking about widgets well John Gruber actually wrote about this recently the fact that uh Android and Windows 8 both have this notion of windows 8 calls them contracts i believe and android call some activities and they're they're things that they're they're functionalities that applications can expose to other parts of the system and other applications so they know automatically how to interact one another that's one thing that iOS has lacked and I totally agree it's something that is putting them further and further behind in some regards and we're seeing them catch up a little bit with this share functionality that you talked about dieter but I think they could go further and and I want to believe I mean that this is probably overly optimistic but I want to believe that we're going to see a lot of additional iOS 6 news before the next iPhone is actually released I hope so do it go this is this is totally an underwhelming like why then why are they calling this iOS 6 it should be iOS 5.5 take Syrio to beta replace the map but then again I suppose so but then APK oh yeah the counter-argument though is don't we go through this same range of emotions every single year with iOS where we're we're underwhelmed with it and then we're like oh yeah this is pretty cool and then it gets us through another year it happens every year happy yeah so hang on so should happen with 45 got me through the year just because it was like okay I accept that you'd like you know polished off the edges and fill out all the features but yeah I just have a really hard time thinking that you know basically iOS 5 refresh if that's what I OS X is is really not going to be boring to a large group of people like its iOS 5 got boring to me but that's because you know I'm a insane person who's addicted to mobile phones and so I love trying new you eyes but I think that not insane regular people are going to be like really the you know this doesn't doesn't feel as you know fluid an elegant and interesting as some of the other you guys that are out there I just think is going to happen I agree with these but I mean let's not listen go too far i mean fluid and elegance is probably going to be something that apple continues to keep up with iOS i think the issue is that the last really major and notable upgrade to iOS came with iOS four in my opinion when that was introduced iOS 5 was really like ok we'll do a notification Spain because we need to catch up with Android and we won't do it as well as Android I mean I'm still not impressed and honestly I can't be the only person who absolutely loathe the stupid patent that Apple has on this notification paying I mean this is um this is consistently morosely iPad the idea uh I'll tell you what's over there is one thing I mostly agree with you Vlad there's one thing however that Apple does really well with notifications and that's the granular control on a per application basis of how you want those notifications to appear I wish they had that on Android okay but they're totally look at you know ticket yet and if you look at your notifications playing on your iPhone actually it really doesn't make particularly good use of the space like it's already a small screen and then you have you know a title for Twitter and then you have a subtitle for the other thing and then I think it's you press the X and then you have to press clear to confirm and in order to you know clear away as you say a subset let's say all the tweets older Twitter mentions things like that and some particularly good implementation I I just find a particular ice cream sandwich I just find look it's so much slicker now how do you feel like I always needs to get away from all of this you know all these was the word skill morphisms yeah yeah oh great I was just guessing at I got the word right um but but yeah it's all of this chrome that they stick in there which is just outdated and it's part of like mac OS 9 or whatever I mean it's pretty ancient stuff an apple needs to get away from it I think who is going really in the right direction with a visual vocalize chris i wish the stock ice cream sandwich and apple hasn't really caught up with that and and i also totally agree with dita were saying it's kind of moving into this area words adding features that we don't necessarily need a guy also got this vibe with the mounted lion reintroduction that I cloud is being pushed so hard when not too many people that thrilled or excited about unlock for example I'm not I don't see any reason to be using iCloud whereas with mountain lion it's everywhere sooo big word is kind of being pushed on you and I do fear the Apple might get into this area where is trying to push its features on you too hard which are not all that useful and not all that official well there's a specific example a where there I think that they're they're stepping on Facebook's toes a little bit with the shared photo streams so one the features that we should talk about but um that you know that I don't I don't understand why they would both push Facebook integration very hard in iOS 6 which obviously is a headline feature for this platform and then in the same breath announced that you're going to be able to share your photo stream with it with friends or selected photos out of your photostream with friends and they can comment on those photos right but I'm a very two-faced announcement so let's talk about some of the other features i mean the the photo stream thing I mean it's I feel the same way that I feel about iCloud like it's super interesting but I really don't have any idea what the uptake is gonna be you know it's sort of like I message I don't know what the apt I mean they gave a big age stats on high message but it didn't really seem like whoa insane to me the thing about I message the thing about I message is that if you're an iPhone user you're pretty much an iMessage user right they did such a good job about automatically pulling iphone users into the iMessage ecosystem it was brilliant it was a masterstroke on their part I think that that they can claim pretty big numbers for that system and and of course face time is now getting pulled into that with the integrated phone Apple ID think that they're doing which i think is also very smart and a big slap in the face to two carriers but it's another story altogether Apple as a long let's talk about that like why is it why are they still two separate apps I mean I there at least are unifying it right so I mean that's important they had to have done that but they can go a little bit further with this oh yeah yeah I think it's just a matter of time I think that it's it you know there's still you know that they're they're invading the carrier's space and turning them into dumb pipes so slowly that the carrier is barely perceive it oh you know but facetime was introduced in 2010 right and we're just now seeing them turn turn it on for cellular and the the next step is going to be a you know it using facetime is a voice-only application and then it pretty soon it's all apples gonna own the entire communications back that's a pretty um that's pretty realistic yes yeah yeah I like this idea of apple just kind of sneaking it in under their radar yeah that's very slowly it's like the video of the the ninja cat where every time you look look away and look back the cat's a little bit closer like not that far that's a yes yeah yes that's Apple with facetime and imessage in order this strategy that doesn't seem to make sense and she was like right up on top of you and you're like oh yeah they got me yep but I so guys we hate area that's cool what does it okay we gotta talk about Siri like cuz that was yeah part of what they announced yes that does the one aspect of iOS that I covered it extreme depth and then completely ignore what everything else um well Siri has been just over hold to the high heavens honestly I I don't know if it's still in beta why why is it every part have to say be 20 beta I think I started talking about preview software at this stage I don't know if it left the B stage yet and if it's an official proper apple application at this point but there was just a massive stack of new announcements with Siri starting off with now they they have sports scores from yahoo sports they have player bios to have stats data a whole bunch of sports introductions they have rotten tomatoes opentable um was there on Yelp so they have a whole bunch of third-party partners they've added the abilities tweet by a series so now you can do completely hands-free devices in the way that I to open an ice-free bottom they have nine car companies as partners which are going to integrate the button into the steering wheel you can activate Siri without using your hands to actually you know hold down the button on that now that was I want I want to I want a deep dive on that particular announcement because I think that Apple was mincing words there if you looked at the slides that they were showing they had a circle or like virtually every car in the market now has has a button with like a talking face on it 4444 it's Bluetooth connection and that's just it's just a like a talk about not a bluetooth headset it's the exact same functionality it in the slide that they showed they had that button circled on the steering wheel in the same breath that Tim Cook was announcing that they were working with these 9 car companies so what I think is going to happen it's possible that they'll rebrand that button is like a quote unquote Siri button on these manufacturers but i think that with other car companies with any car that has bluetooth integration you're going to be able to press the bluetooth talk button and activate Siri in fact you can now can't you that's already feature in iOS 5 yeah the question is what does what does the Bluetooth talk button map 2 on iOS i'm pretty sure master Siri now but I guess yeah I have using so long I could be dead wrong about this so like what they're showing off their is pretty stupid now it could be that like the standard protocol for the Bluetooth talk button doesn't isn't that compatible with Siri just because I think that protocol kind of sucks and so maybe they're working to like create a custom protocol for Syria that manufacturers can map to that button I guess I mean it could go a bunch of different ways I do take apple at their word that they're doing something to make it more compatible so I don't think they're just like lying that they're not working with these companies to do something but whether it's just making it work a little bit better with the standard Bluetooth talk button or if it's like we're gonna give these companies money to put a serie logo on their steering yet no I just looked it up and I'll it already works with the the Bluetooth call button so okay and I was five so I don't I don't know if there's actually anything new here other than like you say maybe a Serie rebranding of that button which is gonna be insane if you buy a car with like generic Bluetooth compatibility and then your Bluetooth talk button is going to have a serial oh go on it or maybe the the Bluetooth will be engineered in such a way that it's only compatible with the iphone I don't know how this is going to play out i'm not sure the car companies do yet either so it was just a very very like hand-wavy kind of announcement that part I just want point that out sorry to interrupt you that Ashley's oh that's okay I mean I do admit ignorance in this respect because I see I haven't even got a driver's license battle on the car in which to use bluetooth gottesman and where it's true I know it's a big revelation and come on me no driver's license and is it there's no time how is this gonna work when I when I come to the UK and I'm like Vlad show me show me your England like let's listen your show me Wales let's go to Wales like how are you gonna drive me to Wales and we'll drive through the the Welsh countryside how is that gonna work and will use my chauffeur beautiful we'll have to sell them it'll yeah but ok and take the tray yeah but aside from that so from that this is the funny thing about Syria announcements I don't know why Apple let this brat until the end but Siri is now going to be available for the iPad it's part of iOS 6 which in itself is probably enough of a big Syria announcement because hey the iPad will kind of expected anticipated it now is being rolled out um but i also i don't know how excited or interested in this we should be do you guys think syria might be more useful on the ipad you know aside from one of these extra features it is with the iphone oh no no i don't think so i think that emits a much it's a much more interesting concept on a phone than it is on a tablet I mean I'm glad it's on the tablet I mean I'll use it on my iPad but i think you know in terms of hands for use and just you know quickly launching things and searching for stuff it's much more interesting on a phone i mean the thing that actually I like about Siri is that it sucks slightly less than apples you know search on the iphone which for some reason it just takes too long for me to like initiate the search but now that Siri can actually search apps which I can't believe it didn't do this before you can actually use it as kind of a quick universal launcher or queen of universal do stuff on your phone which it wasn't before and so it's it might not be a hundred percent there but the fact that you can tweet from it that you can launch an app then you can you know do general google searches like i would say i don't know twenty to thirty percent of the times i'm pulling my phone out of my pocket i'm looking to you know do one of those things maybe more actually and so the fact that siri is now actually able to do that stuff makes it really compelling and means that i won't have to worry about the tiny bit of lag that there is on the universal search thing that on the left-hand home screen I mean my biggest problem with Siri on a mobile phone is the fact that when i'm actually using a phone and when I mean a hurry to achieve something it's usually in public or surrounded by a few other people with who I'm not necessarily comfortable to have a conversation with my phone in their presence you know so um you know Siri google such and such I don't know I mean maybe you American guys are more relaxed in this uptight then also we're here in Britain but it's just not something I would necessarily think to do or be comfortable with doing on a daily basis yeah we want me to wonder if I'll say the one thing I'll say about ipad integration is that they might be able to do some interesting things with the Serie you I that they can't do on the phone video more screen real estate but they're not doing it they like popping it up in a small window right some way the Notification Center on the ipad is like a little it's got a set width I think the Serie thing is the same set with because I don't have to redo all the assets for the ipad i thought i saw a screenshot of like the microphone taking up the full screen am I crazy am i imagining you're you're pretty much imagining that okay and if you can think of is the voice recorder app that's the one that dominates the whole screen there Mike that could be yeah no it isn't look don't really wrong like what when I had an iphone 4s I don't right now but I used to have a for us um I loved like I was surprised at how into Syria I got uh mainly for setting alarms like ninety percent my usage was setting alarms but that usage alone like the difference in workload between setting an alarm on your phone using Siri and and setting it on like an Android device where you're fiddling with it for like ten minutes you screw up the time you have to go back in and set it again is immense and you multiply that by five or seven times a week and yeah that alone makes it worthwhile so I'm excited to see Apple push even even if if Samsung's implementation is a pretty blatant rip I'm still glad that Apple's introduction of Siri is pushing manufacturers in the direction of having to launch it and in fact I think even going back to before the android 4.0 launch there were rumors that that Google was going to introduce a siri-like service and maybe we'll see that a tie this this month who knows it's possible I mean we haven't actually touched and the big Google Apple point of contention which is actually maps right yeah we should definitely talk about maps they look so I maps and I 06 looks like a combination of awesome and a little bit underwhelming so I mean we're comparing it against google map and the woman ilysm is yeah underwhelming an awesome but Google Maps is the same thing and a lot of the other so what's awesome that the turn-by-turn directions look better than anything else I've used in iOS and maybe that's damning with faint praise but it looks really solid and the fact that it's integrated deeply into the OS so it shows up on the lock screen and you know it Siri can that can do turn by turn navigation like it looks like it people are going to deeply deeply love this and they're probably not going to be unhappy about the loss of google maps on iOS because I always their google maps and I almost didn't do turn-by-turn so I don't think that the vast majority of people are going to look at this as a huge upgrade even though I think 60 it what is it lacking it doesn't have proper street view right right doesn't have street view but they're working on traffic solution which is important and the aid their crowdsourcing it like Google does which means that it's going to be very accurate very quickly when you roll that out to a few million iPhones which is good and I'll tell you what if if the if turn-by-turn navigation in google maps on android it didn't kill the PMD market dead this certainly will like if I were if I were garm if I were garmin I guess not Tom Tom they only have to worry since they have this this deal with Apple but barman right now I would be going number two in my pants I mean it's it's serious for those guys right now it is not looking good and don't give you our garmin has this huge non-consumer business right like they're deeply embedded in the aviation industry and in in the in the boating industry and i'm sure that they can survive on those divisions alone but the consumer side of their business is going to start to become very bleak i think so if Tom Tom should be worried too I mean the fact that some of this map data is coming from Tom Tom like it's like it's like tom tom is selling the parts to a burglar to eventually shoot him like oh you wanna you want to clip for that gun yeah I got a clip well you want you know a hammer yeah sure I got a hammer all you want to trigger yeah i guess i can give you a trigger oh yeah bullets sure here's some bullets and then us a lamb was a shot sample that is a perfect example of that happening in real life is skyhook skyhook was providing a Wi-Fi location surfaced both Apple and Google and do either those guys use skyhook anymore nope cuz while they were you know they they used him for a couple years to get them you know while they could ramp up and you know god only knows that they actually stole skyhooks data I would have to presume like even if it was completely accidental I would have to believe there was some stealing of that data going on but in the meantime they ramped up their own services so now they don't need guy hook anymore yeah I mean but only the only question in my mind is whether openstreetmap gets to survive or you know Apple and Google stop giving information openstreetmap but there's no way that they're planning on you know licensing maps from from navteq and Tom Tom and whomever you know they're getting these maps from long term they're not going to need to write this is a disappoint to be made here guys um and that's the same one that relates to Nintendo becoming a software vendor for smartphones yada yada yada that's a that's a whole other a bigger conversation but um just because Tom Tom let's say wants to move into software doesn't mean that some time assigning us out there for like you just can't so dedicated p andy's anymore you can't so setting up units the same way you can't sell PMPs I mean Apple in the ipod touch still the pinnacle of what's been the most generation most generational most successful you know portable media player we have seen right but every single quarter in spite of all the growing sales that Apple has I put such there was a car going down ipod sales in general going down it's just not a categorical really has any reason to exist anymore so tom toms best idea is actually to become a software services vendor and this is the biggest deal that tomtom can get the biggest day of that anybody can get in this business so good get that deal and what you need to do from there is actually continue to evolve and continue to be ahead of the other guys like it's really complacent the thing that just because you do one do and you let you let these guys have access to your data there was somehow you know beat you or advanced ahead of you I mean Abby I'm a tom tom tom tom isn't isn't gonna be able to pull out tom tom was literally years ahead of everybody else in mobile mapping there was you know there was the copilot there was navteq whatever was but Tom Tom on windows mobile and palm OS was an incredible experience they managed to get a mapping and turn-by-turn navigation experience on those old slow platforms that was great and what have they done since then they've turned into a company that licenses map data and still tries to sell some you know some software a little bit some GPS devices a little bit but they're right there licensing the map data to the companies that are going to kill them I just don't see any way around this and that's one thing that they are they there's what what direction could they possibly innovate towards to to stay around at this point well this is the thing the fact of their licensing the dates out isn't the thing that's dragging tomtom down the finish dragging some time down is that the company hasn't done anything innovative or interesting over the past two or three years I just what are they gonna do nothing well I mean one of the ideas maybe they shouldn't have licensed it out maybe they should have not taken that money and kept the maps proprietary and made really good software and that apple would be playing Google off of tomtom for their mapping solution instead of just rolling their own right sure I mean that's a certainly the better solution if tom tom is doing better what all i'm trying to point out is that sometimes demise right now is owing to the company's own complacency at least in my judgment i recall maybe a year ago maybe even longer than that they did a presentation about doing some really live up to the minute traffic updates and monitoring in a really grand scale like all across Europe right so you sign up with some time you get the gps navigation unit and i think it was something like live traffic or live traffic plus live traffic HD it was some really terrible branding name whatever but the point was there was ambitious and it was like we're gonna get you because we have so many people using our setting that units we're gonna get you you know the most up-to-the-minute most accurate data about traffic everywhere right right and I was like a big vision of this and what's happened of it nothing really um but it usually it doesn't matter what matters is what he's gonna buy in a candy based on that yeah fine I mean granted but two desus point if you could develop that and then put it on a phone if you if you could be the person or the company in charge of that piece of soft wave if you turn that into a nap then you have a business model and it's a very well I mean ways is try to do that right now TeleNav is trying to do that right now we'll see if any of them either am are able to be successful but you can't fight you can't fight Apple's own crowd-sourced data they have millions of iphones in the field there's no way around that fact and and as much as the App Store has changed the whole industry the bottom line is being on deck matters being the default app on the home screen yeah that you see without having to install something matters and this is just gonna I mean there's gonna be so little money in this space but but hmmm Christmas a apples number of devices in the field I don't know how useful they are relative to tom toms gps units because when a tomtom gps unit is enabled when it's in use it's in a car whereas most of the iphones when they're in use on being driven around so in how does that how does the millions of millions of iphones out in the field you know outweigh items because where is your phone when you're driving it's in your pocket yes with you or it's on the dashboard yeah right right okay but I mean I'm just trying to understand also how Apple is going to filter that information because um what if you're cycling for example and you're moving along a road or the day goes on my game these are all basic big data problems they can they they can see that there are slow iPhones and fast iPhones adjacent to each other and they can deduce that the slow iphone is a pedestrian or a biker and the fast iphone is a car I mean Google is out there are many other companies already doing this most notably google which integrates this into every Android device sold as far as i know i mean like way in downtown Chicago when I pull out my when I pull out google maps and turn on traffic like every single Street in the city is color-coded by how fast the traffic is currently moving and that's because there are hundreds of thousands of Android devices going up and down these streets all day that was a bit of Education for me so it's all right so we go back to our original point which is that tomtom is doomed yeah but you don't see me there till it sells email II agree that tomtom is totally screwed right now I don't you sad because it's a freaking European company and even though and to be fair to be very fair put yourself in the shoes of tomtom CEO or CFO where you have two options you can either take apples blood money this you know God knows how much they were paid I'm sure it was in the tens or hundreds of millions of dollars for this deal or let it go to navteq or outer worlds but yeah someone is getting that money yes you might as well be you I'd totally right but speaking of money let's talk about verizon and what they've announced today wait wait we have to talk about passbook we have you know we totally need to yeah by the way one one really quick kota google had their Android Maps so their their maps in google earth event like a week before WWDC just so they could get it in and not look ridiculous yeah and I just want to point out that like the offline feature for Android Maps is not new it's there and it has been there for over a year in labs all they've done is like clean up the UI and put it on the main app so like Google's not feeling very good about their incoming map data either right now I look you know it without I don't I don't often agree with mg Siegler but I have to say he he wrote a post after the event that I think hit the nail on the head which is that they had nothing to announce and they put them so they looked really weak I mean they are in a position of power right like Google Maps is dominant in the industry like when you right now when you think online maps when you think real-time traffic when you think turn by turn on a phone you think about Google Maps they have all the power Apple has everything to prove they made themselves look really weak and desperate by throwing together an event where it was patently obvious that they had nothing to announce a week before apple's event because they knew that Apple is going to break free of Google there's not the right move no okay so passbook we got it thus okay so the the basic functionality of the app is what you can get like your your membership rewards cards and like get them save that information in this app so that you can like you know flip a QR code instead of having to pull the card out of your wallet is that what the app does my rock yes that's what the app that is it all it does at the boarding passes and movie tickets right oh and and like sports tickets like I think basically anything that that will accept admission via bar code can be like put into passbook right so what in in and of itself this app is like are there a million is this a huge problem that people have that they have got too many apps for their different ticketing systems when the reward card systems looks like money make and market I mean this app is all about what this app has a potential to be now what this happens right I mean I creately it this is the same this is the exact same play as facetime and imessage where there is it's the stealth cat all over again we're within a generation or two all of a sudden passbook passbook is going to magically tie in to these four hundred million credit cards that they have stored in Apple IDs and then boom Apple suddenly has the the most pervasive mobile payments network on the planet think about it none of that's true i mean the immediate thing that I think of when I hear about this application is where's the NFC and it's mo I mean it really does T's to the next iPhone having NFC because everybody else is doing it essentially and it's growing into a hardware stand that if not necessarily a you know an industry standard because everybody's trying to have them over wallet so the does seem like the yeah exactly they laying the foundation the building up to this big announced at FC but like with geofencing so Apple can do this tomorrow if they wanted to um well I'd have to take time but they say here's your iPad and here is the apple approved checkout system here's how you can use iOS to have it be your cash register and you can click this checkbox and when you click this checkbox we will automatically create a geofence around the iPad that you're using to take payments and people that walk into that geofence can pay automatically when they walk in get something and leave like the same thing that you know squared paypal and all those guys are doing for their you know touch let's just walk in and say hi to your barista and get your coffee and leaves thing Apple's already doing that Apple's already doing that with the apple store app right right so yeah I mean I totally believe it so yeah this is going to be this is this is the start chris is exactly right it's the it's the ninja cat of them getting into mobile payments the only question is we haven't seen the other shoe drop of who are they going to partner with who's gonna win who's going to lose is this going to involve Isis or not is basically what I'm getting at and to be honest the I'm getting kind of tired of NFC like it's at the end of the day NFC is as interesting to me as a magnetic stripe all it is is the way to transfer a number and it's relatively secure so even if the next iphone doesn't have NFC I don't care I think that this passbook is a sign that they're getting into mobile payments and everybody from square to paypal to visa has been put on notice yeah yep it can also raise another point which is that I am actually really reluctant if Apple doesn't announce a big partnership with wider industry conglomerate like Isis or does something with visa that you can use more expensively than just within the apple ecosystem if it is indeed something that Apple tries to keep as close to in-house as possible I am really really reluctant to get into it like I've been thinking about this and the limitations that I poo imposes on you in both in software and hardware are just really annoying and frustrating to me and one particular one is I've been working with some multi-monitor setups on the desktop recently and it's so freaking frustrating to not be able you know I have free extra monitors hanging around my living room / office at the moment so frustrating not to be able to just get one of those and plug it into the imac the reason I can't do it is because the imac is so freaking advanced that it can only accept a video or output video to other Thunderbolt equipped displays or machines which essentially means Apple only and it's just really read them and all of these limitations that the companies making and imposing on people I just you know starting to get on my nerves and if Apple does this with mobile payments as well it defeats the entire purpose of doing it's like okay you take all of my loyalty cards which I have like zero but let's assume I have loads you summarize them you put them together you make my life easier but then you won't let me take that and transfer it along to let's say I decide to go to Andrew phone what is the point in me committing myself to you like this is just building more user dependencies of our socket set and actually makes me nervous like I am a little bit worried that I'm going to not be able to have equivalent services on Android to what Apple is doing because Apple has got enough power to like become say the stamp for mobile payments and if they don't join Isis and if that's not then I just I need to use an iphone or I don't get to do mobile payments until you know five years down the road when everybody else gets their act together right there might be other areas where that's concerned I message is certainly one people might be like you know what I'm turning out by some s if you don't use an iPhone I'm not gonna text ya ya sigmax possibly another one but probably won't like none of that stuff has actually come to pass but like it's they're all like it's not crazy to think that that could happen in any one of those categories and it right that bothers me yeah I was my ways is the only iOS is the only ecosystem where that is a risk because Android I mean like I message is a perfect example android does not seek to replace SMS and the funny thing to me is that Google's had I mean Google's been sitting on google talk since before long before I Android existed and they could have very easily turned google talk into I message long before Apple he even dreamed of the iphone but what they didn't and and so yeah I think that that iOS I mean like you know in my social circle i'd estimate between sixty and seventy percent of my friends and family have iphones so that they are they're clearly the only ecosystem that stands a chance of really locking out the entire industry in key areas like mobile payments in a very frustrating way yeah but since this is for talking about the industry i wanna try and reboot my segue from earlier on yes and talk about it's not a segue anymore though because you just brought it you if you identify it as a segue is it a segue it's only a psychic told if you identified segue it's only a segue if you're segwaying to talk about segways fair enough I cannot argue with that argument eater you are the victor in champion um seriously i don't know about verizon because this is this is actually some really major news and chris coveted but it as usual and predictably it's not as good as it sounded from the initial announcement so Chris please tennis ladder so I just like to point out that this announcement this morning fired me up so quickly and completely yeah I wrote an editorial in 14 minutes see a dude editorial st you said it was gonna take you 40 not 14 Wow ya know 14 14 to change but is under 15 I like I just banged it out and got it up because it was uh yeah I mean it's it's what what happened was you know we've been hearing about the promise of shared data on American carriers for a long time that the idea is very simple right you'd have a bucket of data that you could share among multiple devices in your household whether it be other family members or you know you yourself have a laptop a tablet a smartphone and maybe a car that uses data because that's a thing now right like Audi's have 3g connections for google maps for instance so it makes a lot of sense to be able to share a single bucket of data amongst all those devices what verizon has done is bastardized that concept by tacking unlimited minutes and text into that concept which gives them essentially carte blanche to charge ridiculous amounts of money for each additional device that you add to the bucket it's almost as much as just at you know having a separate plan so like maybe if you had a yet a second smartphone to a shared bucket of data on verizon it's forty dollars re are you kidding me like is so and to put that in perspective they have a 1 gigabyte shared bucket plan that is fifty dollars it's unlimited that the cheapest plan you can get is unlimited voice unlimited text 1 gig of data for fifty dollars so if you have two smartphones you're paying ninety dollars to share one gigabyte of data between those two devices hey it's a joke it is a complete joke and nobody should be surprised I certainly wasn't that Verizon screwed this up this badly because they did so intentionally I mean this was their plan all along I'm sure that ett is gonna exactly the same thing AT&T is gonna do if they do exactly the same thing they're essentially doing nothing I'm I have two lines on AT&T and we share a bucket of minutes and each phone has to pay for its own data and text messaging and i'm pretty sure that like the data and text messaging together comes out to like 45 bucks so like this is basically just a glorified family plan right and right i mean it's kind of interesting that you can add you know tablets and USB sticks for relatively cheaply and so I'm a little bit tempted by that and I you know I hope ATT follows suit but it's yeah i mean i have no more analysis to put on an other than my collaborative exasperation yeah it's it sucks like I mean I guess it's cool that now you can have like a Mart phone and USB stick on verizon 470 bucks like I guess that's cool if you want one gig of data to split between them but but still this is I think this is a slap in the face to people who have been advocating for shared buckets for years now and Rogers correct me if I'm wrong I think Rogers does in fact they were the first North American carrier to introduce shared data and I think they do it in a more logical and sensible way some Canadians might have to correct me in comments but I think that they do something that makes a lot more sense than this so a bit but again it shouldn't surprise anyone anyone that this happened AT&T will follow suit t-mobile and Sprint will probably do something more reasonable it is the way the industry works yeah but they also feel like Verizon is specifically trolling all of the guys who've been saying give a share data give a share data it makes so much sense because like the actual announcement was like a very direct no its wording or phrasing necessary but it was a very direct response to that demand from people so Verizon might very well be just trying to manage the conversation so previously we could all kind of gather round this idea that shared data among the devices make sense you should only pay for the data the carrier shouldn't care about which device you're using it with that makes sense it's a step in the right direction etc etc so now Verizon can literally say that it's taking the step in the right direction that all of us have been advocating while at the same time making absolutely no difference in terms of how much it charges you and how much it essentially abuses your wallet while it's providing it to service right oh oh no I mean it's it's a pretty villainous glory and make no mistake right neither verizon or AT&T in particular really any publicly traded company but these guys in particular are never going to do anything to jeopardize their their profits or to put their earnings in harm's way if this if this stood to save a lot of people a lot of money on their under monthly bill it's simply 11 happened and indeed it hasn't happened because they can't I mean the executives know that they can't put that money in jeopardy so it this should absolutely come as no surprise to anybody it's disappointing yes but not a surprise so it's not it's not a new plan it's just it's a it's a marketing rebranding is what we should sell we should think of it basically the remaining you know what we've been told by both AT&T and Verizon for the past year we cuz their executives have been saying for a long time that this is coming and you know that of course they didn't give any details on exactly i was going to work how much it would cost and they led the world to believe that there was a lot of work to be done and figuring out the logistics you know the behind the scenes infrastructure stuff on how to share a single bucket among small to multiple devices and perhaps that that's true but have this be the end result of that effort is is very disappointing but to your point you theatre and I said this in the editorial as well really is just a glorified family plan because this is a mean that the concept that they're presenting is the same thing that I'll resist and family plans the only difference that they're writing on data now which they didn't before that's it all right okay we can move on heaven actually seen on topic list and I have no recollection of any other ponies so what one of the things I wanted to bring up and we don't need to get into this for very long but it is interesting the this one up late last night in us time the HTC One S is being sold in basically everywhere in Asia except South Korea and Japan and certain European countries and actually thank Eastern European countries specifically it's being sold with the s3 processor instead of the Qualcomm s4 processor and basically the reason is like the s4 processor is just really hard to come by because every single LTE phone needs to use the thing and so it's you know it's hard to justify putting it in a non LTE phone when they're just not around and so HTC is basically swapped in the s3 crank the the clock speed from 1.5 to 1.7 gigahertz and is selling it now I mean it's not a bait and switch because they are like labeling the phone as an s3 but if you're in one of these regions you should you know look at the box before you buy and decide if you care about having an s4 processor talking about it go ahead as you say as far as I know TSMC is still having some 22 nanometer ramped up problems and that I think that's the root cause here you know cuz s4 is 22 nanometer and s3 is not as far as i know right right so i mean i think that this could become a thing at some point that it could be we might be seeing just a difficulty getting LTE phones with the s4 processor I mean is that crazy to worry about that I think it might be because the thing would ramping issues is that they don't tend to get worse over time they tend to better so whatever limitations of supply we're seeing right now I don't think they would last long enough or what I mean okay so supply it probably isn't so much limited as it's not growing as fast as demand is growing because as as the HTC One S is being rolled out internationally a whole bunch of other companies are rolling out their phones LTE phones the galaxy has fries about to come out without tea and the s4 in the USA is going to sell like hotcakes presumably so my impression is that this might last like a month or two but then actually after that HTC might choose to just continue with the S free because the territories that you've mentioned are generally um was there was a politically correct sister having this markets with less of a disposable income okay so are they charging less for this was actually brought up in chat here are they charging less for the actually very meeting I don't they are someone said we we definitely need to bring that up so yeah I don't know I don't think that they are but I could be wrong well I mean the Jeff is a HTC guy and he doesn't miss a bubble show so I'm sure if I've got an email from waiting for him right so he's sending centigram not right now so listen guys a very a very controversial question that might make her some debate uh do you think that the FTC should investigate Qualcomm for antitrust concerns regarding its treatment of LTE modems and do you think that there is some collusion between Qualcomm and carriers to make sure that they are preferring Qualcomm modems in the marketplace because that's ultimately what's screwing Tegra 3 and and and other XO knows specifically in el question markets yeah the question is are Nvidia and Samsung getting the cooperation that they need in order to solve the technical issues of communicating with Qualcomm's modems with their own processors nobody seems to write it that's not it is a Qualcomm is that Qualcomm is giving them the middle finger they're like bffs we have the best LTE modem and we make our own processors so fu now that I have this for a fact I mean this LTE she was a big topic for me to snoop around while at mwc and I ask the video million questions about it and they were saying you know we would love to have Qualcomm LTE motives in our phones like will love them we know the best like they're not even making any bones about it obviously because in videos LTE modem isn't coming until next year so they're not competing directly at the moment they say we would love to have cocoa melty motives in our phones or phones with tegra it's just that Qualcomm won't cooperate with us he won't work with us the welcome says if you want an LTE modem you better have a Qualcomm applications processor in there with it and you know to me that is actually fair enough um being one of the Verge's resident communists I shouldn't be arguing about free market capitalism like this but actually welcomes and lt modems are the freaking best so if you're making the best modem why would you not be allowed to exploit it to improve your market position in order to keep going with your leadership I mean it just makes the most sense to me um I don't really think that carriers are the ones preferring cocos LT modems I mean Samsung is essentially forced into it nvidia is definitely forced into it because it doesn't have a proper solution with tegra into using welcomes modems and application process and and are just tough you know others make LT modems they just don't make them well enough clearly I mean Samson is going to sell the quad-core Exynos processor with its own LTE modem in the unit united states now in Korea so it's doing that there but what is the point let me ask you this what is the point of selling of Qualcomm continuing to sell mDM's versus integrated msms if they're not going to work with any any processors except a peak use what why what why are they even two separate units at that point like it stop pretending like you can buy this MDM and not not connect it to a to a Snapdragon that's fair enough that's uh but but but then again maybe this is just a short-term situation I mean I don't I don't think like I do expect this with this visual lift to be honest when others are going to catch up walk up this is this is something that's really arisen over the past couple of months and also let's don't forget the Snapdragon s4 is like a really nice chip in terms of book no it is it is it is a little time I see it I don't see this being a lot different than then uh when Microsoft got into all sorts of hot water over a bundling internet explorer with with Windows I I don't see it as being a lot different than that no no it is it is because the s4 is good is Laura not so much a deadtime Internet Explorer was not bad at that time it explore was i okay pretty good at that time yeah right but but here's the thing because the Snapdragon s4 is a very strong in terms of performance applications processor and because of its great power efficiency people actually liked it and and there they they look at the other process and they say whoa I'm not really losing anything by using pork absorption so what Qualcomm actually has is a really strong applications processor and the best LTE modem so of course program is going to try and force people into that combination and of course people are accepting it because they don't see that much of a loss it's just kind of a confluence of events or maybe just Qualcomm kicking everyone's ass and being better than everyone um that leads to the fact that everybody is buying into kockums hardware I I feel like Qualcomm is going to continue selling its LTE modems individually in the future when others start to actually compete with what whether by having much better application process or by having equally good LT modems and that's when Qualcomm won't be able to folks people I mean I think what size and Internet Explorer on Windows 95 or whatever was back in the day is that it is using your dominance in one market to unfairly compete in another market and so the question is is dominance in one type of cell phone ship mean that you shouldn't be allowed to leverage that for dominance in another type of cell phone chip and so you might look at it regulars might look at that go there their processors and cell phones i don't know i don't care or they might look at it you know the way that they they looked at it or explore be like well yeah actually it is a little bit unfair for them to dominate in the processor market because they dominated the LTE radio market right i guess i don't know i guess i'm with vlad like I kind of not worried about it because I'm still able to get the s4 I think it's you know one of the better processors out there right now and that's totally amoral of me but there it is I think that that what what really caused me to think about this was that I I knew this was a problem and I didn't think anything of it last year in the take or two /o map for days and and to have that continued into error and the X in those days i should say the original X nose but now to have that continued into 2012 with the next generation samsung and NVIDIA processors that's when the alarm bells start to go off for me and I think that I mean you guys are right like if welcome legitimately has the best processor and modem great and carriers are demanding that modem just because they know it's the best that's fine but it you know a within a generation or two of these processors I think that DC is gonna have to start saying yes something's not right here we need to take a look at it but if they if they don't maintain um leadership right I every feel like my Christina because yes Microsoft getting investigated for internet explorer uh came up when internet explorer sucking so bad and bacliff was essentially forcing a bad user experience of people but the same time the EU is also investigating google for allegedly having antitrust infringing practices with a search which is just bonkers to me because google also exactly like welcome has the best web services images google images google maps so i actually want those like my user experience improves when google integrates its other vertical web services into its search results so excuse doing um yeah it's not the best but but you right course antitrust regulators are bit more sensitive to these things as you should be then we are it's true uh we talked about the PadFone just really quickly it's finally out and it was reviewed and as expected it's it nails the idea but it misses on the execution is the quotient or review that I think pretty much wraps it up I mean how long I've been waiting for this bat phone exactly not exactly he's exhausted yeah that's right yep and it went through a big revision since then right right I still want to ruin this concept I really do like that's why the phone is still compelling to me you're crazy man just this is a DOA DOA actually there was a rumor going around last week completely unsubstantiated that eighty was going to be carrying the PadFone or some variation of it and I don't know what happened that I think that rumor evaporated into thin air but if 18g carries this thing i'm going to loll ilona flip at phone I'm gonna flip a pad phone I they're not gonna I mean I don't know how they're gonna sell it I don't understand the concept I hate this thing get out of my face the guy hey I hate the concept so much like it is pretty damn just fit right let's break it down quickly because not every one of us has been waiting for this full year I think a lot of us haven't actually been waiting for it for you it's just say can I seuss that long to bring to the market and the concept is that you have your phone and i believe is hdmi and mini USB connectors slot into a tablet which has 10 inch tablet which has a little port at the backlit where the phone slides into and then that in turn turns it into a tablet so the processor and the 3g modem inside the phone also function power up the tablet which in itself is just a display with a large battery as two speakers in it and some extra ports that's the whole idea I really think though that nobody should be surprised by the fact that the execution is not good it's as concepts go and as ideas go this is one of those really really futuristic ones it's kind of like back of the day when I was really excited about consoles and what the next generation of consoles might bring I used to think about controllers that you could like collapse into smaller shapes you know kind of like collapsible bikes and the reason we don't have those controllers nowadays and every controller is kind of just moded out of plastic is because they're horribly horribly difficult to execute and to do correctly this is why these things don't exist and it was actually think these things don't exist because nobody would ever want a collapsible controller like what what is good what problem does that solve space and you know you have is your apartment that small that you dont have space for an xbox of control over i'm really confused oh okay i was i was a teenager I had a wild imagination I think I had a dream about this it was like a PlayStation controller that you could I don't know it was kind of like a Rubik's Cube something you could just you know do things with it and make it smaller or like a cube and it would just be like pretty good looking and then just unwind it again and in its controller again I mean come on let's be honest if you're going to move your console around and maybe you want to carry in a backpack I mean these are big consoles nowadays but back then they comes was used to be smaller I'm glad control to us all not it not a collapsible controller okay well fine collapsible consoles are also really hot execute stop take an issue with my teenage concept okay I know this but it is the same kind of thing it's like in your imagination it's like yes we're gonna do this um it sounds like awesome it's a really awesome idea and stop saying that mighty isn't awesome ah but this is what a powerful represents it's one of those things that a lot of people can or one of those things that really resonates with a lot of people because they see the idea of I'll take my phone a plug it in to establish all of us anything now there's also a transformer parts of it so you can plug the phone into the tablet and then plug the tablet into a keyboard and the keyboard itself also has a battery so I mean you can get some stupendous battery life out of the whole figment David gave this a 10 out of 10 for battle in life so that's a point for credit okay is loot liya Motorola going in the same direction with the next atrix or are they doing that now where the the stupid laptop laptop thing is basically just the same thing just Ice Cream Sandwich just blown up like the thing that kills me about the execution being so bad on this is Android seems like it's at the point where the execution doesn't need to be inherently bad about this and you don't need to have anything insane and create and magical to make it feel elegant just like tell Android that it has a different screen resolution and you're done right I mean or is it is that just is that so hard it I wanna believe this can work and that there's no reason there's no inherent reason that we can't just have this work resolution independence is one of androids grave strengths and great weaknesses because that is one of the main reasons that Android apps look like crap is because the the app is is putting too much effort or not the app the framework the application framework is putting too much effort into ensuring resolution independent so you can scale this to you know anywhere from hvga to to a tablet and and and so I I personally think that is I mean look google has to obviously support very very rich resolution independence in android there's no way around it but i also think that's one of apple's great strengths and iOS is the fact that they don't have to you well don't sugarcoat you message about how apps on android look Chris Wow they what they look I said they look like crap I know but now let's about right actually hey Sascha Segan actually um we should we should find this link for our listeners Sascha Segan of pc magazine put together a really awesome gallery and article a couple months ago in fact we wrote about it on our site about how bad android tablet apps look and and going into the details the resolution independence a bed but never that you talking about just a minute up see well I'm talking about I'm talking about the the resolution independent nature of Android and the fact that in many cases you're running the same apps on on the article 3 as always your iPad win the ipad wins because android tablet apps suck an illustrated guide and its really that's great honey we can't disagree with that and that much is valid and fair enough but then hey Google why you is coming fun times well I really get what Google i/o does mean that the Android tablets can matter beyond amiable wait we will be in attendance will probably get one of those a 27 inch nexus tablets that nobody wants to announce but everybody knows gonna run Tegra free right and jelly bean yeah jkb oh these names I hate these days so let me just let yourselves in jelly big man I mean how can you feel a professional in your industry if you spend half your time talking about these things now in the worst part is that brings everybody else down so during the WWDC keynote somebody at Apple they're making fun rightfully so of you know iOS is on a huge percentage of devices iOS 5 whereas android 4 is on a very tiny percentage of devices and they referred to it as a dairy product and I'm sorry you're above that pun Apple you are better than that pun and the fact that Google is picking these cutesy names means that everybody gets forced to make these sad jokes it's like calling the iphone the fruit phone it's like come on really it's okay to just call it the iphone it's okay to just well it was a public area I'm missing a missing ice cream sandwich dairy yeah but but why would the other blue velvet a dairy product because they were there trying to be clever and not refer to it by name because I don't know oh oh okay well that's not really a pun it's kind of um I know as an English resident to think I am an authority on puns okay it's kind of a euphemism to avoid it's open it's like it's like it's like a collapsible pun it was upon but then it got broken down and it's really hard to get those right and so I just I missed the mark on it it's a pun phone oh no it just smokes from everybody in Chad dixit Vlad and I hate each other and it's could be further from the truth the truth is that I'm just simply afraid of Vlad I cuz i've seen these two fist fight before it's come to blows do it got crazy see yes it was out of control I think you know what bugs the the PadFone is is the kind of device that everybody thinks they they want or that you know everybody thinks they like the concept but nobody buys same thing with web top how many web top docs do you think Motorola is sold i would guess it's under 5,000 total whoo that's probably true no they must have they must have snookered some corporation into buying like 10,000 over for their entire fleet i guaranteed yeah maybe but but you never would even when it was announced when the atrix was announced at CES 2011 everyone was like wow that's pretty cool and then they went on to sell none of them so i think i think that that the PadFone is the same thing it's something that we like the concept of at least you guys do I think it's stupid but but when this thing hits the hits the Martin why do you think of it because because there's no in it there's literally no advantage to putting the phone inside the tablet just have a phone and have a tablet just do it you save money on RAM on processor on storage you save money on the board to put all that stuff together you don't have to worry about sinking stuff anymore it's all just on the phone you don't write a book services so you save money on data it's just it's all it's your one device and that's all you have to worry about and then you just have different terminals that you plug it into to get a bigger screen if you want it like I don't see what's not compelling about that dream y'all be trippin good on ya I can tack on give you the victory on it but it's a good argument I'll give you that but there's another point oh um which is taking the longer term and also the environmental view on this which is there we're sticking process into way too many things and way too many things that suck that's the other thing I really really annoys like the galaxy ace and the galaxy mini eleventy just stop making those folks just stop it okay um make cheap phones that people who can't afford smartphones can buy and then make good high-quality smartphones and make like one or two of them I'm so freaking tired of guys without you just yeah yeah yeah and that's actually a good thing um I mean why does LG need something like seven smart phones with android which are interchangeable but anyway besides that point if if you could actually buy into a sous and trust a sous to that degree which I don't think anybody can do with Hardware outside of Apple and you could make the argument with a pear phone that you buy this once 23 years pass the phone gets out dated before a way the phone you keep the other parts no particularly the keyboard like I feel like you could buy a really solid keyboard attachment and so long as the connection is something long-term something like hdmi and USB which is hopefully gonna be around for a while you can then keep interchanging with new additions upgraded every couple of years let's say provided you know the company in question is actually reliable yeah I mean and let's be clear i would say that like if you just do this over a wireless standard then that you definitely could keep that tablet thing for a while but we've now seen two attempts at making this work that have both failed spectacularly this we know obviously and then the blackberry playbook just I mean but it's hard to know maybe the PlayBook would have been crazily successful people would have been all over blackberry connect if you know people were excited about either the tablet or the smartphone which they're not in both cases right yeah this'll really depressing it really is hey you brought us all down Peter we were we were riding that that that that high until you brought up the damn playbook yeah and now it's all done let's just let's end on a high note the hideout is that apple vs motorola some patent case they're just got straight up dismissed in by the judge who basically like like said you guys have no reason to have court case right now just figure out the settlement and you're not coming to court through his microphone down walked off the stage yeah it was pretty amazing he raged quit the case it was amazed yeah wait did it just happen this nodoz I'm right it right I'm beyond the seventh okay oh good and yeah I am terribly excited the case should be dismissed with prejudice because neither party can establish a right to relief that's lawyer speak for screw you guys I'm going home yeah I mean screw you guys glad I mean I have very little to say about this because the legal world is a complete black box to me but but you know we've we've had a few contentious patent discussions on on this this podcast before and and i will say that i think that that there is much to be done to avoid this mess in the future and it is going to continue to be in a mess especially as long as I mean there's the end doesn't wrong there's still a ton of cases going on right we have situations europe between Microsoft and Google and Apple and Samsung I mean there's still million cases going on this is the tip of the iceberg but but yeah we could be more like that's the problems we don't have a good we don't have any quote let's go back to equivalent to the the Microsoft monopoly case now we've got a thousand cases to track instead of like one big case that everybody knows is important and nose is going to set standards for the industry you know now you know it's everywhere and there's lots of standards to be set and you know lots and lots of different courts to fight this out in right what we need is a big giant scary case to bring it all together I think I think the government should just sue apple and google together just put well in a room and just everybody yell each other for a few months and then whatever comes out of that that's that's the end of it no more cases actually we should just have a gladiator fight Tim kawaii Iran and Julius Genachowski we should just put them in a giant stadium with swords and spears and release some Tigers in there and whoever comes out wins I totally agree and who would be who would be the the Emperor giving the thumbs up thumbs down and in his from his you know his shaded luxury box in the Collis clearly that would be Vlad that would be go ahead yeah oh no good suggest Mark Zuckerberg is a democratically elected you know president of 900 men people but oh ok you think Facebook held a vote last week for their new data policy and privacy policy although they don't call it a privacy it's a mess anyway they had this governance rule where they would make the public vote binding and Facebook would be forced to comply with it if thirty percent of their user base participated in that election and then like three people voted yeah that would be 270 million people that would be it wasn't the biggest election of all time as I went to India a few years ago but it'd be like in the top three or four biggest elections of all time in the history of man so obviously they knew that wasn't going to happen and so I think it would the the actual vote was like I don't know 370,000 something like that and this was after like a whole bunch of sites including us linking to it so yeah to say Zuckerberg is democratically elected anything is not quite true see all they needed to do was bundle it during American Idol and had had people vote with their phone I guarantee you they would have blown past 270 million no glad you make a much better Emperor than Zuckerberg III really deeply believe that I mean could you imagine the Emperor wearing a hoodie I couldn't that wouldn't be cool no look thank you thank you d-2 although I do you think I do suspect you're thinking of me as the Emperor in the actual gladiator movie who is a sadistic guy who died miserable death again but okay picky yeah oh but what he workin Phoenix it matters no yes thinking that no he was awesome of that movie did you that he had the best line of all time in that movie he vexes me I'm terribly vexed I mean that's just this terribly vex come on and you know glad like Joaquin Phoenix you will later go through a period where you grow really long to shovel beard and we're uh Wayfarers at all times really dark wafers and and mumble and coherently on the David Letterman program and trying to solve this is your future I actually working on the bid right now by complete accident to have to admit okay see you step one in t-town now you just need to book your david letterman showing and you're you're you're good to go yeah and i need to i should buy my first set of sunglasses ever what what it's true yeah you're gonna have cataracts by like age 40 dude well dude I at bar other people sunglasses but I'm just too picky and I've know for one of my own oh my god that's insane that bad and driving his license yeah please do things are missing in life yeah you got to work on this okay well well we have been podcasting for a really really super long time and so I'm going to say that we're gonna stop doing that now actually it hasn't been a podcast has been a show the Virgin Mobile show we're gonna end it right now and so we want to thank you for listening and are watching and if you want to get in touch with us you can email us its mobile show at the verge com we're also on Twitter I am at back on Chris's at sea power vladas at flats a bob and we are all at verge and we'll see you guys next week thank you guys