Gadgetory

so a month ago or so i bought a goat i took it home and then i slaughtered the goat and I offered it up to the gods of mobile as a burnt offering begging them to bring another mobile expert to the verge and a couple weeks ago dan seifert join the team coincidence who can say stay tuned for the Virgin Mobile show I'm dieter bohn i'm dan seifert i'm chris sigler it was up that so oh my god he's here we have been trying to get Vlad connected to us for some time now he is live from Aoife in berlin and how is it there lad it is nice and not so anymore it's night now but it's lovely the people are lovely it's a beautiful city and I'm enjoying it apart from the really ghetto web connection that I have right now otherwise is of length yeah you saw a mess really what's really odd to me is that Berlin is supposed to be basically the San Francisco of Europe right a lot of stops there you would assume that the web connectivity would be absolutely fantastic everywhere you go there apart from the hotels and I'm in a hotel so what can I do one right you know I've got Wi-Fi here basically got to take to the window so again maximize its connectivity who knows how long our laws but you know as a voice and as a still picture in this otherwise video podcast I will do my utmost so we're we're missing a golden opportunity here to haze dan who is with us for the first time and I think there's no better way to do that than to just say hey Dan I was going what's new it's going well um I think we got anything done a lot better you know I could have and you really put me on the spot there so well he's oh he's already done 90 seconds on the verge so I kind of feel like he's already he's already over that hump so to speak uh this is kind of the easy part this is cake compared to the nightmarish halibut and I just want to say you know for the people that watched the 90 seconds on the version I was actually on I am wearing a shirt that fits this time so you know nobody needs to take a fence or avert their eyes because of a shirt that make might not fit oh you can always get thrown just throwing it out there yeah I like the fair and my bro they're pretty brutal when it comes to uh to our wardrobes I gotta say is that a time they are yeah that's a little tied and that's amazing great that's your your mate I'm wrangle for the bulk show I was about to say I'm wearing a tuxedo but then I realized my camera so i can't really lie about that um but yeah this is this is very exciting so for those of you who don't know all of you should know at this point but dan seifert is a very very new addition to the verge and we are very excited to have him aboard and I suspect this is an early prediction but I suspect you're gonna be seeing and hearing a lot of him on this program going forward I think that's the same as well see how he does yeah no I mean he totally bombs and he's out obviously right well you're pretty high I park here yeah the string no pressure at all yeah no pressure um also dieter I just want to go back to your open because that was I mean you've done some disturbing openness but that really takes the cake and I'm a little emotionally scarred right now and that frankly i don't know if i can continue i might do yeah i would like to add that that i had no idea that was coming either I mean I saw the notes word in the in our notes and I had no idea who is going going that direction yeah so so just to give our listeners an idea of what's going on we're looking at our show notes here and it just says virgin mobile show episode 14 cold open colon goat sacrifice and I didn't think to question deters I just I let him roll with it and it comes and I come to find out that he was actually going to talk about buying and slaughtering a goat it hopes that dan seifert would join which I yeah that was that was unexpected so I would also like to say no animals were harmed in the making of ya say it turns out that sometimes these these opening stories aren't actually technically true I didn't literally buy abilify only metaphorically bought a goat and made a burnt offering of it to the gods of mobile by the way gods of mobile would make a sweet superhero movie we think we've talked about this before we should talk about Aoife because Vlad's here on a tenuous and risky connection and we should use it while we can so the I guess the big news so far is LG is that fair to say yeah I think so of what we know well I mean actually it's I think it's premature to talk about evil by exactly one day so if it'll conductance podcast tomorrow it will be a really fascinating breakdown of the comings and goings the movers and shakers but today is just like LG announced the Optimus G which is not an offer at least not yet the jeff blagdon over in Japan he went to the entity docomo launch event for this device and managed to get some hands-on time with it but our dedicated so there's they're seriously IDs um I don't know if they will have the phone here I don't actually know that for myself I mean my conversations with LG have actually led me to believe that it wouldn't be launched yet it wouldn't be good if I I expected it to be launched little later on but there you go that's just how far you can take or you can trust your communications PR people I guess um but yeah I mean look if it's a diva you we found it will be videoed and it will be sniffed and touched and tasted no please don't bring those of the pho but nigga don't sniff the phone you can you can you can touch it you can look at it you can take video of it don't use any of your of your other senses don't taste it don't sniff it I I I implore you unless you want to come down with some diseases that you can't pronounce their have any bones that have smelled bad i will i will point that out there there are certain manufacturers where they don't get all the glue out before they ship it and so it just smells terrible coming out of the box well a very good example of that is a nexus s when you whip out the battery before switch yes and then get back in it's a very consistent unpleasant about but anyway I reject Chris's absolutism about dumb stuff to phone I should do whatever comes naturally twin banker completely and that's your funeral it's glad it's your funeral and frankly we have Dan lined up as a perfectly suitable replacement for when you die so I know I know I'm already super presence as it is you guys are probably posted a picture of a clown while I speak oh and yes I found myself like no the thing hey anyway so yeah the news of eva is coming it's not with us yet but as far as we're concerned the korean companies they've done their usual thing of pre announcing things so we know there's the LG optimus G the 4.7 inch device and whenever something is going to launch the galaxy note 2 so those are two big standouts from Korea and we should get a hands of bow tomorrow basically I don't know yeah I optimus 2x was just not an impressive phone to me so whatever you know LG this is not the first time the LG has made a point of trying to jump out ahead of the competition and you know trying to make a big splash with flagship device and they just in in the past they have not in my mind delivered the optimus black was not an impressive device the 2x sucked i had g2x and it was not not a good phone so we'll see I'm up you know a little bit only because the 4x HD was impressive at least I mean it wasn't it's not quite up to the bar of say you know what Samsung has been producing or even HTC but it was a marked departure from the really ho-hum phones that were coming in 2011 2010 etc mm-hmm sure different interesting thing my dad I'm told I'm ready to have this thing break my heart like I like the design it's just a big unapologetic slab of you know powerful smartphone awesomeness as far as the specs are concerned like there's there's no adornments like the corners are barely barely curved they may as well be like 90 degrees straight you know sharp corners it's just you know a glossy black slab with a screen on it I mean actually it's late to have is that it's super glossy yeah I was gonna say don't speak too quickly about liking this design because from the front absolutely agree with you it's really a severe looking which is fun and good for something that is respect women but then you flip it around and is this glossy back and it's just you know it makes you cringe I don't know what I needs to do that why do you need to get it up and make it all flashy and all of those things but the really interesting aspect for me with the optimus G is that this is the first advice from LG that has the famed in-cell touch technology which we anticipate it will be in an LG display in the next generation iphone and this is essentially the same thing that we've seen from Samsung with a super amoled displays where they take the capacitive touch elements and the display and they just you know bond the whole thing together and make this place look like it really is on the surface of the glass unless you make it as you build thinner displays which lets you go thinner phones point that Chris has been drilling into people for a while so I mean and I mean obviously the first quad-core Snapdragon s4 is going to be a spectacularly awesome awesome chip so I mean that the potential is totally there but then we've also said that whole bunch of times at LG devices well the other thing to point out is that it's currently only announced for Korea right we don't have you know who knows when it's going to come to the u.s. if ever korean Tom I mean we're just now getting the Optimus view on verizon as the LG intuition which like did they just have like a like one of those cages with lots of little bingo balls in it they've all got ridiculous names I don't really just rolled it around and one popped out what is what does intuition have to do with this giant weird you know four by three device I don't know but that's a long time from the time that devices announced it arrived in here and so I'm not really you know I'm betting if it does come to the u.s. it'll be a while and by the time it does I don't know you know I'll care as much yeah especially for two hundred dollars on contract are you kidding me yeah I know um so I guess I got to finish before we move on I just want that there are a couple things I just wanna say real quick about the optimus G I feel like and actually about the Snapdragon s4 pro in particular because i feel i keep going back to something that was said to Vlad and I at mwc this year when we spoke to arm and the gentleman that we spoke to said you know this year I'll be using a quad core a9 this time next year I'll be using a dual-core a 15 and at this point omap 5 is right around the corner right i would expect before the end of the year we're going to have some ol Matt 5 announcements which i think is widely expected to be the first a 15 SOC on the market so and you know is the s4 pro those are really is the entire s4 lines rain you know with the crate architecture about to come to an end and you know what kind of battery characteristics and performance characteristics are we going to see from these quad-core krait chips versus dell Matt 5 and whatever whatever other a 15 ships we see over the next few months well I mean uh for me at this point it's I'm more concerned with battery life than I am with with performance and if the omap can-can went out on battery life then I'll switch over I mean I've got no problems with the dual core s4 honestly I I really am NOT especially once you get something you know close to jelly bean on it like it's just fine so right you know switch you know I'm totally convinced that you know all these arguments about bon cours a joke it's not necessary blah blah blah like I was convinced as soon as I started using the 1x and so I mean I'm less worried about you know the the speed and the power of these things and I am about who's gonna win on the battery life front and especially in a quad-core space and to me that's that's a much more interesting question well certainly um I think you know the battery life is definitely an issue but as devices we're at 720p devices now as we move it to 1080p devices we might see some issues with the current dual core chips pushing those graphics so I think that's where we might see an advantage on the quad core end in and then hopefully better battery life with the newer quad core chips of course right does that make sense anybody yes I think that's yeah it makes total sense to me total sense I but my gig for this podcast is that I'm going to believe anything the dances cool that's my that's my role here Chris I oh you have the wrong idea for what hazing means I think it kind of goes the other way which is anything anything about said dan says we need to just slam it into the ground to pretend like it's completely wrong but you don't know that would be a real by the way I want to point out that if if you're listening to this later you're not watching us live I strongly recommend that you watch the video version of this podcast yeah not just listen to the audio version because the images of lad that are going up on the site as he speaks are stupendous because if anybody's getting hazed here I really think it's vlad and not me which is which is hysterical I think we're my burrow Maggie City segment or aspect of my show just no video feed from Vlad just pictures and I just I just released biceps of air biceps um do we want to talk about the these rumored galaxy note 2 specs I mean they're pretty much in line with the stuff that we've heard before and looking like a 5.5 inch screen and you know the rest is you know 1280 by 720 3g and 4g radios and a 1.4 gigahertz quad-core Exynos processor none of that is strikingly different from you know sort of where we thought they were headed so it's probably I mean we're going to know for really real as soon as samsung announces it and like I'm the resident like stylist fanatic but for some reason maybe it's the the fact that the you know we saw the the note 10.1 review from Neil I I'm just not excited about the note 2 at all you know I wasn't a believer in the original note and say I also prove me wrong by selling millions and millions of them the note to like I just I have a hard time believing that anybody is waiting for this device so the specs are told how many symbols me but that there is one thing that I want to point out which that we're hearing all this talk we and we've talked about recently on the show we're hearing all this talk about devices getting this 5 inch LG 1080p display possibly prevent of the year I think there were some HTC rumors recently so that really makes this galaxy note 2 potentially look lame pretty fast if it's coming to market with a 5.5 inch 720p at the same time that we're seeing device 5-inch 1080p screens on the market so that that's one thing to consider yeah I was going to say I'm in the same boat as the SD to read so far as yes I find the specs perfectly in line with the galaxy s free and perfectly in line with world samsung has churning out of its other vertical companies so it makes sense and I respect and I was also in agreement with detail when it comes to him about the original Galaxy Note I mean I was he ready for when the original Galaxy Note launched and to me it was a case of the guys step 7.7 is an amazing device and this galaxy note thing is a gimmick and I was like okay they're really trying to push the note to us but the tab 7.7 is the thing that I find exciting interesting so the first way the first thing to say is samsung mobile pack tomorrow need not only be about the galaxy note 2 there may be other devices that we just completely no heard about that's one thing the second though is that evidently whatever market there is for these notes is I mean the terrible pong coming up I apologize in advance but it's so striking the right note with us but it is with a whole bunch of other people and my theory only theory is if you look at like seven inch tablets like the original Galaxy Tab if you look at the net Nexus 7 and then consider shrinking that down to like 5.3 5.5 inches the no form factor maybe that makes sense to people whereas all of us just keep considering the note in terms of expanding a smartphone up whereas if you think I'm 7 inch tablet which is kind of a one-hand device and then shrink it down stick a stylus on it maybe dusty people I i took that argument or looked at that argument when no first came out and the problem that I came up with was the like the Nexus 7 runs tablet software with tablet apps the note does not the note runs phone software with phone apps and there's a couple well hey gasps there's a couple of unique apps from Samsung that's pretty low but like for instance if you were to grab you know or just look at the gmail app the gmail app is the phone version instead of the to paint tablet version so I that's why I think we think a lot of it as it's a phone going up to a 5.3 or 5.5 inch screen as instead of a tablet coming down to that size then the other thing that I kind of have a theory about is that it's a very popular device but Samsung's not saying we're all those sales are happening I think it's really popular among Asian cultures because the stylus makes it really easy to input their languages and their characters that's not really it's a lot harder to write in English on it with a stylus than it is say Korean or Japanese or something like that yeah I mean the thing much I don't forget but the note is I desperately want it to be awesome for a whole bunch of apps so stylus support and every time I go and try it it's just not there and so maybe you're right that it's just like the the default use case of it for inputting you know language is what's making it so popular but I have to disagree with you about the nexus 7 running tablet apps because I I use nexus 7 every day and like ninety percent of the apps are basically just blown up phone apps it's just less annoying because it's only a 7-inch tablet like the android tablet still just isn't there yeah i mean that that problem is that but that's an android tablet problem but like if you look at google's apps like the gmail app there's a separate tablet version versus the phone version because you get to pains with the tablet version a little bit different UI that takes a better advantage of the larger screen yeah i wish they would do the same thing with their google reader app because oh my god no google reader does does have a different tablet UI than it does on the phone if you flip a if you flip landscape you get more you get a to pain view uh really yeah okay i'm gonna try it no i don't know if that you got on the nexus s concert theater you just got well i always use it in Lance Aaron portrait right and it's completely annoying I wish it had to pain in portrait because that's how i'd like to read because i need you know volume of headlines um yeah i don't know i mean the note it's just not a new thing anymore right and so i don't know if it's going to catch people's attention the way that the first one did against all odds but you know i have to like i said at the outset i have to admit that it could and that I'm you know being a skeptic for skeptics sake instead of not actually you know believing ah do we want I what the S three colors i want to point out that the brown one looks really cool to me and i totally would buy a brown galaxy s3 yeah I kind of love it as would I yeah the brown is gorgeous the brown is absolutely fantastic so the only question is which US carrier or carriers plural are going to carry which of those colors because I'm sure that there was some consternation on the part of verizon and others that 18t picked up an exclusive color so I just wondered who's going to bite yeah I can't read right yes 1818 to you got the red eye could see a US carrier picking up the black or the what do they call it graphite gray or something like that I find it really hard to believe that any US carriers gonna pick up the brown as depressing as that sounds I just can't see it I also just to mention that there is no red galaxy s free I just walking down the record there is a burgundy guys get free which is so closely that I don't understand any self-respecting heterosexual male using it it just looks like a lipstick all over but there is no red galaxy s frame would also do they call it go hours or something yeah that's like you know I mean they're brown is amber brown amber is not brown they're just different colors man and get give it a program and also I have no idea what the brown one looks like because I was on the flight when Samson said to announce this thing so I'm just taking your word for it it's gorgeous so it's it's a glossy now touch it someone I'm sure touch tomorrow somewhere yeah I'm wait for Matt well Samson needs to go to Matt yo that would be one table well they should just they should just sell the backplates individually you know and they could they could mark it up three hundred percent and I would you know I would buy like four different colors you know just have a black front and then different colors for the back plate I would be all over that but they're not there and that's soup are you talking about Matt back plates any back plates but we I don't know why civically when you start mixing when you start mixing to see this was this is what was great about dumb phones back in the day is that you know like the Nokia Xpress on covers like it would it would replace the entire case and that entire concept is basically gone now right and and I guess it's partially replaced by the fact the people just you know the majority of people seem to get some sort of protective case with their with their phone and that's what they use to customize and style they're at their device but if you want to style the case it's like the actual phone case itself that I mean that concept is just gone well oh hey that was a nice podcasted sorry glad news so news broke looks like Isis is going to be debuting its mobile payment solution in September possibly they're gonna they're going to introduce in salt lake city in austin texas next month according to a verifone CEO which so verra phone is going to be providing that payment terminals and it looks like they're definitely you know gonna be requiring NFC which is I don't know I feel like NFC shouldn't be a requirement for this sort of thing there should be some sort of you know backup option because there's just not that many NFC phones out there but we're finally going to see Isis actually happen all these carriers working together it's actually like a real thing I feel I got is amazing for like forever it we have been but i've been using i've been using google wallet that you know the latest version of google wallet on the Galaxy Nexus is good enough now and you know you can add all your cards to it so that it's you know I'm just happy with the way it works I don't need anything else I I want everybody else to stop development efforts on mobile payments I'm done this is good everybody has a PayPass terminal I have my phone I'm happy dude you're one of like 80 people that lives that life nobody has Google Wallet a few people didn't have access to Google Wallet on whatever their devices don't know that they can use it it's like you are the one percent of the one percent that has a mobile payment solution that's reached some level of ubiquity and actually know was that they use it and actually uses it dude it's like you and one other guy that's your the other guy you are the other guy dieter no i'm not i don't have Google Wallet on my phone but to chris's point you know if developments east on the other things and you know Google Wallet was able to be brought to more devices then you know more people would have it instead of just kind of like this mishmash of various protocols and standards and all this other nonsense so you know everybody wants to throw their hat in now we actually got an email to a mobile podcast email address which is pretty amazing a mobile show at the verge calm pointing out that NFC isn't actually necessary to mobile payments that Apple solutions passbook and we just turn you know looks like NFC is not likely to get in the next iPhone that there'll be some other you know way of doing it and that we don't need a single universal standard we just need all the different standards to work together and there's a little bit of hope for that since there's that mobile payment committee that Isis and Google and everybody else are all part of now but I still am NOT optimistic it's going to happen you know in short order i think you know we talked about this a million times and it's whatever Apple decides on that's going to become the de facto standard what I mean google wallet is progressing they you know will let any card in now and I guess they're going to add loyalty passes and uh you know loyalty cards and ids and whatever to it so it's opening up a bit to look a bit more like pay pass on an iOS so like these things are all starting to offer all the features that they need to the one feature that they don't have is anybody using them except for Chris I'm I'm using it and that's all that matters there are mobile payment systems that are used like every day all the time but there's different starbucks right yeah square starbucks they're limited to those proprietary systems right and of course I just kept call me when is widespread whatever it is whether it's a mishmash like these in Muscat just call me when he's wise bread I'll join in until then just it's just noise its corporate noise to me okay thank you what call me when it will work on any phone without verizon or you know some carrier or Isis deciding which phones are going to have it call me when it's not a differentiating feature for a phone and when it's just the standard on a phone when I buy a phone I know that mobile payments will work on it whether it's Android or iOS right or Tizen or whatever hopefully I lovely oh man never but I'm gonna have to call you from Europe if you don't have verizon Regency involvement it's gonna have to come from Europe really what we're waiting for is we're waiting for it to reach the you know Bluetooth ubiquity Bluetooth exactly the same on every single phone no matter which one you buy these days now Vlad i do want to point out that AT&T because i've seen it on google street view before AT&T for some reason has an office building in belgium I've seen it and I feel like it's some sort of like super secret skunk works like in all the stuff that they don't want any anything anybody to know anything about they do in Belgium and then they import it to the US but I prefer to go Jim to investigate that anomaly I mean then again vodafone has an office in silicon valley so i guess it's not that strange no i think it strange i think i need to travel over there and try out some of the boat and delicacies on our way there and just you know really digging into that story sure sure I think you have a report bring but now I mean let you know mobile payments I mean we've talked about this ad nauseam over the past few months but the the problem with them which is never going to really get resolved to anybody's satisfaction is the fact there are too many people who want their palms greased to make it happen right first and foremost the carriers which is why Isis exists in the first place Isis would not exist if it were not for the fact that three of the four US Nationals believe that they are entitled to a percentage of this of this you know what they perceive to be a a an entire new economy waiting to happen in fact really they have absolutely nothing to do with it other than the fact they are selling phones so if it were up to me carriers would not even I mean it it's almost a net neutrality thing right like carriers really should have absolutely nothing to do with this mobile payment should be an a it should be um you know some secure hardware on the phone it should be an app that you can download from any market and that's it that there are enough people involved in making these transactions happen securely as it is without the carrier is getting involved so to me Isis is I'd like lat said Isis is noise and they have absolutely no business being involved in this next topic I love that it we you know close this one nicely let's next up sorry I had to move and close the window it is in ridiculously insanely hot in San Francisco today and so I had the window open and there is a truck backing up outside my building which is in a perpetual state of construction which is awesome next topic we finally have got a Nikon announcing the s800c which is an android-powered camera and Samsung is also rumored to be introducing a galaxy camera at Aoife and I am wondering why it's taken this long for this to happen it seems like a really natural thing to just you know have the cool photo apps that run on these platforms well maybe i think i had but i think i have the obvious answer which is that with you know with like proprietary firmware camera manufacturers are able to i mean it's it's almost like the nasa argument right we're like you know if you if you develop your own proprietary forum where you can do it very tightly and in a very very small amount of rom and and the the UI is fast you know exact you know it's um it's what's what's the term it's formally verified so that you know exactly what's going to happen in every possible use case because they're firmer thank you that much whereas you know with android it opens up a potential can of worms and it becomes a much bigger project to to test this firmware and test the camera in the same way into the same degree that you would a traditional like closed system so i think i think this this cool pics actually boots up into something proprietary so that it can just start taking pictures right away while android gets you know finished loading in the background so in Justin you know so just in case android is taking too long it'll let you get your big pictures right away and then it'll let you jump into android specific stuff once it's ready and as clever as that is it's kind of messed up that they have to do that yeah well yeah like but yeah but I mean this was always the idea with Android right like it's an open system that anybody can use to slap into anything you know we were expecting to see you know consoles and cars and now cameras and I don't know toasters or whatever running this OS because it's open source you could just plug it into anything and like we really haven't seen it be like you know it could have you know replaced win siiii in in some cases i mean i guess it's not really exactly the same thing as that but i would have expected more consumer electronics to be running android like I'm still livid that there are a lot of very good after my get android-based car stereos for example so like putting it in a camera makes really good sense to me just because there are photo apps that you'd want to have to react have direct access to good lens and so this make sense like I I would I don't know if I buy this but I buy into the idea of android running on a camera I mean Dan am I crazy I mean you're you're more of a camera dude than me no I I think that you know just like you said the ideas is great I don't know if this particular model is the answer I would I think I feel like I would love to have this on a higher-end camera maybe that you know could really some person that's using a higher-end camera can maybe really take advantage of the connectivity of Wi-Fi and things like that and the various android apps that they could upload it to you know a dropbox account or something like that very quickly and easily if they're working with a team you know things like that that really would make it quite awesome because when i look at this like this particular device you're paying 350 bucks for a hundred fifty dollar camera to get the android functionality and i don't know how many you know people that would be normally be buying this camera would buy into that yeah else to me they were kind of hedging their bets a little bit and saying well we're gonna we're gonna try this but we're gonna start with uh you know as a mid-range camera and if it works out maybe we'll expand it to the rest of the range cuz i totally agree again if they had been able to do this in a cool way on the p 7700 oh yeah then then that would be a different story but i'll know if you guys remember kodak uh didn't try to do something like this like a decade ago they had um they were using there was a third party company whose name escapes me that developed a camera an open camera OS and I think codec was only major OEM to use it but it had app that you could install it was like a whole thing and I mean it was still it wasn't anything like truly open it wasn't like an Android kind of thing but it was you know as a platform that you could actually pay to get a you know get access to the API within the develop apps for it and it just kind of died off but at the time I thought it was a really cool idea for the for all the same reasons you could have your own uh you know your own filters that you add and all these things and now that you know the objects are much better the electronics are so much faster I'm pretty excited about what this means for the future of cameras and it really kind of validates that the whole nokia pureview way of thinking which is that camera phones and point-and-shoots have gotten so close to converging on each other's territories that they're just about the same thing out and that's 800 is I mean it's bit for all practical purposes it's a it's a camera phone without the GSM radio right which is what i was saying over the past few weeks is what the peer review should have been they should just taken out the gsm radio I'm not actually ever I'm not telling Chris somebody on Twitter a couple of months ago maybe pointed out to me that two years ago while writing for engadget i wrote a post where I rather mockingly addressed what aunty van jockey who was still one of the leading guys at nokia said he said that this allows are soon going to be obviated by camera phones which you know 24 years ago whenever that post went up and whenever an sees words were spoken did seem like a really absurd thing to say and I still feel like these of us have a role to play there synthesizes cannot be duplicated you know I mean the other way POV tries and look at how thick of a phone it is even though as you say it's more of a camera than a phone at this point but definitely a severe shock his words were informed by the technology the POV technology which was now seeing in the market way back then and his vision is one that as you say Chris a lot of people share a lot of people want to see come to fruition in some sort of a mentally compromised way where you see where you get something approximating DSLR color quality while bringing it together with what then was saying the app ecosystem of a fully developed software platform like Android and this is over that is bug me for the longest which is a camera software is just really really dumb it's like Oh bad there are two aspects of it like one is there's a really clever stuff which is auto focus in judging the proper distance and metering which sometimes is really perfect and sometimes it's horrible again so like these these cleverly automations of processes and the speed of which are they're done so that you press the shutter and all these automatic fingers kick off and do their job those are doesn't really like the indistinguishable from magic kind of software technologies the camera makers is a great credit for but then when it comes to the software that you interact with as a user the UX of cameras and is absolutely utterly atrocious and this displays that pad they've grown they've increase in resolution and it just being wasted I mean we're looking at something that would be embarrassing for blackberry to toe tap you know just text your menus and then nightmarish and they're written by people whose native languages and even English I mean it's it's just it's just a train wreck it's horrible and absolutely nicole has nothing to lose in just you know dumping Android on one of these cameras and saying hey guys it's an Android camera honestly I'm kind of disappointed in everybody else that they didn't beat nickel to this because of this point issue that nickel is bringing out is running Gingerbread and yeah let's go even mediocre specs as far as the phone aspect goes so am ii it doesn't excite me as much as the idea well I mean we kept on excites me this particular one doesn't yeah that's important thing is that there be there be api's for all these these settings that you that you talk about the camera needs to be open to having Android apps be able to adjust all the different settings that there are on a modern DSLR and you know if someone were just like publish a spec or not gonna tell you like here's all here it is it's Android we slapped it on to a camera but now here you can write an app here's all the stuff that were opening up we've done a couple of things I think people would really go crazy on that and you could you could write a lot of really interesting you know apps to control the camera and do interesting things as long as the android OS has got full access to all the settings on the camera yeah and you know this is that one's going on here the only company at this point that can do this thing and do it justice and I'm kind of surprised to be saying it is Samson so this rumored Samsung camera phone with android has good potential and the reason for that is Samsung is already making lenses for its mirrorless cameras so even though camera lenses are a really new thing for samsung the couple is I mean it's partnered with some lines of acres so other optics makers come remember the name of the company this point but it has some experience of building lenses that sounds the building cameras and I experience is growing and it absolutely has the hardware that can underpin a really really appealing camera phone but as I say this nickel one is great on paper but it doesn't excite me is an actual product at the end it is just so much room for somebody to do something better and just like create their own market like this is this is what Apple does write like this room for device this room for something new and an apple takes it and then suffocates the hell out of everybody else but I really believe that Android is the great platform the public platform to do this which rules up well and as sounds like as a big player but then everybody else doesn't need to be sleeping like sony has a press conference tomorrow why do they give us one of these things mean we're gonna go gaga I know Bruce Miller just like you know he's gonna rip the show off his back he's gonna go nuts you say you sony does something like this but do you remember glad i don't know well any of you guys i don't know if you remember this but when sony first day bude the vita which was not called the vita at the time it was whatever the original term before it was uh thing yeah yes thank you they said that the herb maybe this was actually this actually happened after that but regardless they said that they could repurpose the Vita OS for other devices now i don't know if that philosophy of that guidance has changed as sony has kind of metamorphosed in the past few months but that's something to consider as well I wouldn't be surprised to see Sony try to do something with a you know I'm sure that it continues to rub Sony the wrong way we and sony has always taken pride in creating its own proprietary you know accessories every standards and platforms yeah and and and I'm sure that they would love to get back to their former glory to the point where they can do that and get away with it and maybe Vito as part of that strategy I think that's a long shot but we could always bring them uh just real quick I do want to point out that the sam byford has put together a really nice roundup of all the next iphone / iphone 5 rumors all in one place so you can see everything the larger screen the smaller dock connector the slightly changed design all together in one place and it's really funny that like we're you know we're talking about you know Aoife we've got all these different announcements that are coming up we've got a whole bunch of stuff next is it next week already that we're gonna have motorola and nokia oh my god yeah i am moving way too fast and so we're sort of like just in the run-up to this thing getting announced but like does anybody feel like there's something we don't know about the the next iphone at this point like are there any like we know by and large what iOS 6 is going to look like we've got enough parts leaks to put together a whole phone we know that the screen and the dock connector and like I I don't feel like there's anything that is going to really surprise me right now I mean I'm under estimating Apple that the romantic uh tech nerd inside of me really wants to believe that Apple has been fleecing the entire world for the past several months and has been seating us with fake parts and is going to just completely blow everyone away with some some totally different design in in September but I just don't see how that's remotely possible i think that the reality is that they have been thoroughly scooped and are probably not too happy about it and are kind of resigned to the reality that this is just how the world works now and it is basically impossible to keep stuff secret and you know what that says to me that says that the phrase double down officially means we're not going we're not going to do it we're going to fail at it anytime anybody ever says I'm going to double down on X what that means is i'm going to utterly fail to achieve X it's just like in real blackjack we're double doubling down is very rarely the right move wasn't it every person read is the said rim would double down likes everyone has said everyone has said they're going to double down on something at this yelling right but i love it i double down on secrecy I mean it's like it's it's the kiss of death if a CEO says Double Down it's all over I know whatever it is mr. fetus was the guy who said that tone it would be so perfect if he was indeed the first CEO to start talking about doubling down because what is followed since then it's just excellent he's just like uh who was it um it was dumb money John Rubik's gene was it him or or was it uh what's his name the other HP guy the expo Ithaca know Oh badly tog rappy yes uh Bradley out one of those guys said that they were doubling down on oh yeah my parade Mike heard up the guy got five markered I think mark hurd yeah but it could be right by the way it is I think it's a dad yeah uh I guess as long as we're talking about Apple we should also mention that they basically won the case against Samsung the the big court case in San Jose there's of course other ones coming and this is gonna there's going to be an appeal and there might be an injunction on the galaxy s2 and we don't need to go deeply into this because there's a whole special edition verge cast that was done basically live as as you know the verdict was coming in actually literally like as the final verdict came in they were already doing the podcast because there had to be a couple little corrections to it but I mean you know it's a mobile show bears on mobile it's interesting I think the fact that we're going to see some possibly someone junctions on the galaxy s2 that might be uh you know a real world effect on this but I mean I think Samsung had already sort of changed its game so I don't see you know I don't see this exact sort of case playing out again over and over and over again you know the Apple just going after every Android manufacturer with the exact same stuff I think they felt Samsung as a special case now just a note that we deserve special credit for going for most of this podcast without banging on it on about this lawsuit because I pretty much guarantee you that makes us unique in this week's video audio any sort of industry commentary because everybody has some sort of opinion some sort of an angle I've actually read somebody right it's too early to describe Samsung as clear-cut winners of this like something was so convinced that Samsung one just by being associated with Apple's products which is some validity and you know for a lot of people the effect of this lawsuit is going to be just glancing over the headlines and saying the samsung is having to pay damages for essentially copying Apple hardware and a lot of people go to start doing the math in there and well doing the maths in their head for a UK business yeah it's topically hey hey I'm a second these guys are producing macbook airs and what not and you know I phones slightly different but not differ enough not to be legal and the G put on the iphone Obama be ripped off by Apple I'll just going by the cheaper stuff but I don't know I know how much of an impact is gonna have on Samson's business I don't think that's going to be significant in fact also I think to a great degree it has been overblown and this being a great degree of our reaction to how much of an impact the ruling itself is going to have another samsung business because as ET were just mentioning if Apple gets an injunction against the galaxy s2 what does that match the samsung samsung is heavy heavily trying to seven promote the galaxy as free it's not even her trust boost mobile but yeah this is a little bit of sake um Sam so i'm not selling anymore galaxy s2 from this day forth until the end of the world is not even going to be a rounding error a currency you know I don't know if I probably agree with that though because I think Samsung easily positions the galaxy s2 as a you know entry-level model compared to the galaxy s3 just like Apple does with last year's iPhone 4 that's still selling for a hundred bucks if you look at the US carriers at least every single one of them that carry the galaxy s2 still carries the galaxy s2 and they run deals where it's like buy one get one free and it's a hundred bucks instead of being 200 or 250 you know so there's a huge market for that you know one hundred dollar price point smartphone level and if you're going to buy the samsung line no doesn't see and actually the other thing is like it would have been Samsung's high-margin product you know it's that they've been making it for a long time it's the best selling Android variant Android handset of all time as far as I can tell and so they would have been able to just you know keep trying it out as you know by last year's model still quite good and it's you know a little bit cheaper but I mean how much will it affect Samsung you know in the US because i don't think the galaxy s2 took the US by storm because there are all these different variants and so there is less of a cohesive sets of branding to it maybe I push my point a little bit too far to the extreme but what the Jessamine so that the entire impact of the lawsuit including the damages including potential from lost sales a due to potential injunction from Apple coming further than the line in September it would be something like four percent of Samsung revenue that's so much of a thing Samsung might take whereas in the first day of trading immediately after the judgment samsung stop price fell by ten percent which is you know there's a potential impact potential like an absolute max a four percent of the samsung's annual revenue whereas the company is at a price fell by temperature so people clearly overreacted and the other thing to say is it's somebody tweeted this and it was pretty much perfect perfectly spot on and the tweet was unlike everybody else with Twitter this weekend I am not actually a patent law expert yes if everybody has some freaking interpretation and some freaking forecast about this fact whereas the only thing we really really know for sure is that the lawyers on either side have one massively and will continue to win like they'll have generations in their families secured because of this crazy crazy losing above all my might be ques- out of this is what is Apple going to do with this dude is Apple think that it has like a I don't know about a moral authority but like if they've got a you know a what's the word with with elections when someone wins by a landslide they've got the people behind them they've got a mandate it I'm so hopped up on sudafed right now I don't know the mainland and a mandate like they have a mandate to go out and file similar lawsuits and go after everybody or if this was sort of a one-off thing to set an example of Samsung and you know they're going to deal with their other lawsuits with motorola and HTC and where else it is that they're suing but like now that they've won this they can start wrapping up and start getting the settlements in motion and we they will act with this lease Apple will absolutely continue to pursue litigation against a variety of OEMs leading eventually to Google proper ad nauseum mark my words they they're not going to stop they are going to I mean they are taking a jobs famous statement that you know he's going to spend every last dime of apples bearing Android it that they're taking that as gospel and they're going to continue to pursue it doggedly to the ends of the earth I'm absolutely convinced and and I'm not saying that I disagree I mean I think that Apple made many excellent points during this this Samsung trial and I can't say that I really agree with many aspects of the verdict but that's not to say that that every single a lawsuit that Apple has filed around the world has been completely reasonable and we don't know what forms those lawsuits are going to take going forward by the way I just want to point something out which I don't think Apple realizes and it this just occurred to me but I was doing some research while you guys were talking the droid charge the the samsung droid charge for verizon is one of the devices that that that Apple is attempting to get an injunction against which I I mean I don't even know verizon still sells it right it's actually my early right on the front page of raw if you go to verizon's website it was highlighted are you serious yeah it's like that's hilarious free on contract right there trying to move stock before it gets injunctive me let me double-check that but yeah well so US cellular is really going to hate me for pointing this out but the the Galaxy S aviator is basically the droid charge and Apple failed to take notice of it so Apple just FYI you might want to get an injunction against the aviator as well because the aviator is definitely still very much for sale on us tell you well so I mean thank you for if I'm Samsung do I say oh well I can't sell the galaxy s2 I'm going to change one thing about it and give it another ridiculous crazy name and start selling it again and it'll take apple two years to get around to getting an injunction on this like that's one of the apples big complaints is like they hate doing these lawsuits because they can't you know get them through the court system fast enough to have a real effect on sales you know so I mean like I yeah I just don't see Samsung significantly changing their game I think they already have and we saw with the galaxy s3 yeah I think that long term it works out to it works out to a mandated royalty rep which is what frankly I've been advocating all along where Apple's just going to continue but potentially could continue to win these kinds of lawsuits for decades to come every few years and they just pocket a billion or two and it works out to being a force royalty on these patents that they hold well let's also kind of try and differentiate and split them out a little bit the first thing is that Samsung is ruled to have infringed on software patents or runs on one side and the same rights on the other side and the point of data raised about the galaxy is to rename it give it a new design and style setting it again well you know if that would be facetious with that by the way I was that's fair enough actually like if if the guy says to offends the design rights of the iphone and you tweak its design where are you offending this side like that I mean Apple can't get this through the cause because then it's like what are you suing for now now you're just suing for the fact that Samsung is selling phones we no longer look like your phone but you know the most significant ones and a more intriguing ones I think are the software patents you know things like pinch to zoom what was it the bounce back when you're scrolling and there's one other one there were three major ones pre-major software betas time to the bridge captain zoom bounce and pages and I I'm forgetting a third of my P yeah it's it's not quite pinch-to-zoom it's like the instance before you get to pinch to zoom recognizing two fingers versus one finger something like that Neela I can explain that way better than I can but it's not Neela is very adamant in saying that it's not pinch to zoom but it's one of the steps before pinch to zoom and I'm very anime same I really don't give a um no seriously it's like on the one hand I feel like these things shouldn't be playing civ words oh and all of their countries that don't have software Peyton systems in place it at oh and for whatever reason software still be made in those countries like people must be crazy or hooked up on something but ok so that's one aspect but then on the other hand I just kind of feel like well you know things like pinch to zoom or the moment before pinch-to-zoom that moment of anticipation can we recreate it in other ways and the perfect example of me is the scroll back bounce right the one that you have are so familiar iOS yes it works great and it looks great and it's really functional but there are so many other ways in which you can be creative and inventive and not copy it and a great one for me and this is probably the only thing I'm going to praise about HTC Sense for is the weather AC does it there and it's the same way that so many does it with a PS Vita it's just the way that the items on screen the list items just kind of stretch out and and then it just collapsed again kind of in an accordion sort of way it's very natural is very instinctive it conveys the exactly same as at the same point thing we know it's gone does that as well right I'll i love the way windows phone does it the square and yeah yeah we're just follows yeah squishing rather than pinching it's you it's crazy conversation we're having yes they the same message but differently and also whole point of creativity well do it evo not even though i hate the software patent system I just feel like these companies lazy if they are literally just going to copy Apple well to do so if you look at the the grid we had a post earlier today about the the changes that says Samsung's making to the software of the phones that are supposedly infringed or have found to infringe and if you look at the grid of the patents that were infringed there are certain phones that infringe all three software patents and then like a slightly newer phone that doesn't infringe any of them because Samsung had already worked around and figured out a workaround for the the bounce back and this pre pinch-to-zoom and the double tap to zoom so it's there's definitely like you were saying there's definitely workarounds available and on those devices where the work round was implemented from day one I don't recall anybody complaining from the phone's launch that it didn't have those particular features exactly the same as an older Samsung phone maybe the bounce back people certain people didn't miss that but I don't think the other ones were terribly missed yeah i will say that HTC's work around in the sense for for for the bounce I just can't stand it where it separates all the items in the list like like the kind of accordion down and then they could reconnect back up together I just I could I never liked it i it always looked terrible to me III line I like the windows phone one the best that's my favorite the squish yeah windows phone looks good even stock Android the way it does it with like the global the yeah the glow I don't like that because it feels like you're coming to a hard stop like you're scrolling and then yeah it's best tracks I like it's like living with with the glow yeah you're scrolling and like where you move effects what's happening on the screen that all sudden that stops working it's like wha so I mean so I mean apples implementation of it is really really good and so you can see why it's tempting to copy it because it it lets it still feel tactile but also like it shows you it's at the end and so I mean the way the way android doesn't what the glow is fine it's just sort of aggravating if you if the glow should like grow down as you move your fingers so there's still some tactile response or visible response if you really love that bounce back feature ironically the Firefox browser for Android whatever the latest versions are has bounced back all over it no matter if you're the ICS or jelly bean or an older version of Android and I have no idea how Mozilla gets away with that because it's like very obvious bounce back and to the side and everything like that that's just something I observed yeah I get to use if I I haven't used firefox on mobile in a long long time so maybe i'll check it out um do we want to talk about these uh there's a cup we usually skip these uh like company a patented feature X and what does it mean because you never really know how long it'll be before our patent turns into something but Nokia got a couple of patents on designs that look like unreleased nokia phones basically there's the Lumia arrow which looks like a mid-range or maybe a low-end phone like looks basically like an iteration on the 610 and then there's a the fee or is it the Phi pH I how would that be pronounced I mention pi phi probably five which looks like a basically a very slightly iterated version of the the 900 is it even an iterated yeah it's a slightly iterative version of the 900 it most amazingly stations the colonel is Peggy edge that's it yeah yes yes and and that is big people are expecting it to be 4.7 inches inside so like a big one yeah I mean what is the problem the problem that Nokia is going to have here as much as I continue to love this industrial design that this this design DNA for them the problem they are going to have with consumers is that they have now been exposed to the 900 in the u.s. I'm talking about of course they've never exposed to the 900 for several months this new device is going to come in say october november so or in that time frame it's going to be on AT&T shells looking basically the same as the 900 how do you convince people who've been around the 18 teapot folia for a while that this is a genuinely and thoroughly new device I don't know how you municate that to them well it tied the child's man tiny little tiles oh wait no that'll look like that on the the current phones as well I mean apples got the same problem between the four in the 4s I mean yeah but the difference is that every single person tech sep we are not in the United States knows exactly what iphone is i mean i get i get text messages from my least tech-savvy friends but i can make fun of on this show because they definitely don't listen to me hey i get text messages from them saying when is the next iPhone coming out because they they like the iphone is pop culture right it's not it's not even talk anymore it's just pop culture no it's not true so so does not have that vonage little point of order since we've got into the judicial sphere today earlier on you said mark my words I don't think we need to do that because you marked him yourself we're hanging on disabled oh yes this is true yes but besides that I mean perfect example exactly what you're saying Chris on my flight over from London today some guy dropped his phone on the take off and it brought back and this girl tried to pick it up but it kept rolling back any role on way to the air hostesses and she said to him he was about to get up why would the plane was taken off she said to him no no it's fine they have your iphone and it struck me that she didn't say they have your phone she just saw a rolling thing falling down the aisle and she knew it was an iphone and that's exactly to your point it's it's beyond just being a brand and the unjust being apples product it's it's a thing now it's like a whole other category phone so yes just because it looks like the old iphone does really matter to a book but it might matter to knock it okay be right on differentiate yeah I can see that point I think it matters more to nokia that it does to apple right uh for the reasons you guys have all stated basically now what they can do is offer some hot new colors give me my orange a bruh man I'm telling you my burnt sienna orangewood I hundred be hot yeah or it would be pretty great I would even take the what the amber brown I forget what the the color was the brown samsung actually know a brown lumia 900 would look pretty terrible now that I think it would the only the only way Brown works is if it's double shot like the old zune or if its way they can do something like with with the brushed look or something but yeah Matt Brown is just not good it would look like not good at all a chocolate bar you um yeah but the leak for this knock if I was of it with a yellow outfit yep and we've already discussed how Nokia be inspired by the CMYK color palette in the fact that it already has cyan magenta and black for homes as I have a yellow one why doesn't have a yellow one yada yada yada but the latest leaked the one that we've seen and the one that seems have been confirmed by referring sense of the nokia fine was it with a yellow outfit so if you're into yellow you can get excited I don't know great I mean we will find out on the fifth and that will be but the move it now the fifth we talked about this last week is motorola we're expecting what the razr HD basically but then there's also now this razor am which is like a mid-range II kind of razor but it's qhd man at 4.3 ats island that's how that's pretty ugly what's interested in the diac way is it super amoled and which makes me think that it's probably the same super amoled screen that was in the razor and there the razr maxx which was absolutely awful display yeah okay i'm using it stop begging on your end about it lasted have you charged these black dude the razr maxx with ice cream sandwich and that crazy battery is a kick it's a killer phone for a trade show like this because i can't rely on the 1x2 last beautiful day where is this thing I can rely on it loud to last me tomorrow there is something you can't compete that I mean it's a bad display yes but I can read stuff on it tell whoa dude that's fine yeah I am jealous of that battery and then the other mid-range phone that we had rumored actually more than the rumor this is a exclusive to us was the ACC proto Chris you want to talk about this I would be honored and delighted to talk about the HTC proto so so this is um this is a device that bears a striking resemblance to a phone that HTC released earlier this year in China we wrote about it richard lai of engadget china chinese is actually the one who pointed this out to me it's the T something something something w and I wish I had a link to give you guys right now I don't but point is this this phone already exists in China looks like they're expanding its scope globally may or may not be known as the desire x at this point we're not sure but it's very much a mid-range phone kind of in the same vein as the 1v but without the chin and was slightly upgraded specs looks like we're looking at a 1 gigahertz dual-core Snapdragon s4 you know like the s4 range is very very broad and this is on the lower end of the s4 line but it but Qualcomm does technically categorize it as an s4 so that's an upgrade from the single core 1v this isn't going to replace your 1x but it's a pretty smart looking phone so we'll have to see how it actually I'm guessing that we're gonna see this editha and if not then shortly thereafter sorry I was just a diet see it's the new desire v that is what they call it in China aka the HTC vtt 328 t for china mobile rolls right off the tongue that's sexy yeah it's right out the time yep i will say i'm a big fan of the vertical HTC logo on the side of the phone instead of just centered in the middle i think that looks a lot cooler yeah much more than fitting was there ascetic I think yep great oh that's it boom so let's get ready to see that one in the next day or two I suspect yeah this is this is what I'm going to do when we do a video hands up that's how I'm going to kick it up be a mid-range android again yeah it's not Scott's gone Tenten attends eka hands-on video just there it's not stuff why do you thing is to me ah oh if I laughs I'm going to hock hock up along right now okay with that I think it's time to end the Virgin Mobile show it has been lovely having you all with us if you want to follow us on twitter you can we are at verge I am at background Chris's at Z power vladas I'm glad say Bob and Dan it was amazing happy with us and as DC SI es a TI fer t so close yeah dang it aah say it again so everybody can get her on it it's a DC SEI fer t yeah I you know it's because my name is ie and so I just always get mad people spell it wrong so I just assume we'll be back next week Vlad will have survived Aoife good luck to you lad thanks so much for watching everybody let's say what's it say oh oh oh no I mean oh okay judges ooh just to justify this interruption I'm gonna say beta so yeah enjoy that but also I just wanted to look up the fact that I would like our listeners to please shooting tomorrow because myself a roasted are going to be live-blogging our little hearts out I've got a soda press event at 4pm Berlin time which works out to 10 a.m. eastern in the United States and then two hours after that we've got samsung mobile impact galaxy note 2 action which is Brad noon eastern 6pm Burlington so tuning to decide at that time we'll have the as what half inches i have videos will say things in funny accidents there probably would be a you'd be great yeah the answer samsung unpacked events are always completely insane and so you definitely are going to want to see what letras have to say about the madness that's occurring in front of them it's true well now i don't have a well rehearse scripted wrap-up thing and so all i can say is goodbye everybody thanks thank you Oh