Gadgetory

I missed last week's show and I was so gutted about the whole thing that I decided I would commandeer the whole introduction just cheap dump right in get Rudy to get rid of Chris dan dan pasta they're all gone it's just me speaking of the introduction actually if you ever thought about who we r doing it for because I have I spent a lot of time thinking about it and I realized nobody actually comes to our show without knowing what they're coming in and getting themselves in for so I'm never going to introduce it you guys know what this is hello guys welcome to The Verge malchow episode 18 weaker cetera 24 I have less have oh i'm dan seifert hey there's somebody else you thought about me hey how's it going and dieter bohn dieter bohn is joining us via a phone which is really fitting it's been much mobile showing our videos so diese which blackberry using today yeah i'm not using the blackberry dev alpha be because i'm not a developer i guess so i don't have one i don't own a single blackberry anymore actually which is sad but also not sighs oh it's sad but it's also entirely on not having well i mean the thing is I only I'm resetting its library so as you guys might notice that Chris is not with us right now hopefully he'll be able to join us in a little bit but we're going to plow ahead with just the three of us for now so well I mean the truth is we don't really like this and you never have yeah speak for yourself the your vendetta chris is like a whole thing squad show and but but that's actually all taken out there are three of us just afraid of us sitting number and we'll get it we'll get onto that because room was really bullish about having a real shot at number three which is down was saying just before the show is we're gonna take it all the way guys all the way to number three so rim high aspirations high ambitions are you platform ah but we know who's number one I'll do with me oh we know who shares the number one spot and a sample with the iphone and I'm actually surprised we've been talking about the iphone 5 so long I should surprise that you only just want to say oh this past weekend and it feels like forever the initial sales would be yeah it has been breaking records as usual we've had a chance to review it some of you guys have had a chance so should play with and users I've only have only seen it really and play with that mock up wit good eye candy for so I'll let you guys take it away I mean then how do you feel about the iphone 5 uh well you know like you said it feels like it's been around forever I mean it just it I've had mine less than a week and it feels like an old friend because I knew about it for so long for before it actually hit the market but you know it's exactly what we kind of expected it to be if you didn't catch our iPhone review iPhone 5 review that went up last week definitely check it out but it's largely the same experience as the iphone 4s except everything is faster the processor is much faster you've got LTE data which is much faster and you've got you know slightly thinner slightly lighter body with a bigger screen but it's still an iphone it's still you know is iOS so your experience hasn't changed to dramatically if you're coming from an earlier iPhone model epcot from yo Matt right awesome at man yeah I just want to you know in addition to the the iphone 5 agree we also got a an iOS 6 review that the damn worked on and I contributed to a bit and basically iOS is as iOS as iOS has ever been it is it is iOS it's the same and like we we talked about this last week and you know my piece would think this that's very very iterative and I mean to be very clear like it's super fast I didn't think that the iphone 4 was slow but iphone 4s was slow but the iphone 4 definitely was chugging and so the iphone 5 feels much much faster and voice quality for calls is better at least i think so i'm talking to you on one right now and i'm actually relatively happy with the battery life i had mine run the gamut yesterday from 630am and it finally conked out i want to say around eight thirty and that was with moderate to heavy ation at least a full hour of phone calls so like I would like that to be better but it's definitely on par or slightly better than the LTE android phones that i've used and that's particularly remarkable to me because i'm pretty sure this thing's got like like fourteen hundred milliamps in it for the battery right yeah you know I'm actually not sure exactly what the capacity of the battery inside of it is but it is it's very light and it's very thin which indicates that oh my producers are saying it's actually 2100 which actually sounds very high considering how light in hell that it is if you compare it to other devices that have those size batteries they tend to be a bit thicker or heavier but like as you were saying with this is bad well they as you're saying with the speed you know I I was coming from an iphone 4s and I like you said I never felt like the iphone 4s was slow but moving from the 4 s to the 5 the speed jump is like so dramatic to me even coming from Apple's previously fastest version of the iphone it's almost like you're jump from like the 3g to the for that that big of a speed jump to me and it I was actually kind of kind of impressed I didn't expect it to be that big of a difference so the battery is super in centerville 5.31 1430 no that's iphone 4s I 3.8 Bowl 5.45 uh wat our 1440 okay am so that's actually pretty small for an LTE device Mary yeah everybody in chatham losing her mind that we didn't have this number of different out hey guys I'm on the phone you can you break I think I just got a bunch of tweets about it too anyway it's ridiculously small and ridiculously fast so this this new processor so it's a sex is a apparently incredibly power efficient and fast right I would expect it to be yes actually from the things that will Apple disclosed about the a6 processor and of an antec fame I included that is actually running an a 15 cortex 18 processor which is super exciting because i have had one of those yet and what's going to be the next big jump i think i think what's an efficiency that's actually changed i don't think it's an a 15 it's no no I know oh no um I was booting up to that I was putting up to embarrassing my good friend Anna yeah shame for me but but yeah so he's initial conclusion was that it has to be quoted safety because of the properties that I've always disclosing because of the battery life that Apple is disclosed etc whereas on further review and I'm found that it's actually a mixture of cortex a9 quota safety net is Apple's so to speak fully custom chip fully custom apple design and so it isn't a stock arm chip whereas previously I mean Apple has been saying ever since its branded its process is a whatever a 585 X etc and now a sixth it has been saying that it's designing a cell processes but it was mostly sticking to templates from what I know um template maybe just doing a few tweaks and optimizations here is there where is now apples at a time it took over that company whose name I don't recall any more chip design company said time to integrate it welcome it and is producing these really extremely fish and chips like it like you're saying tita which you know is good a no and the bigger display is absolutely making the iphone catch up with the four-inch i know there's a golden ratio so it gets recorded the golden form factor as far as I'm concerned you know what 4.3 inches and so Apple is catching up on that front physically and the display is now even thinner making for the thinner phone overall but ultimately you know apart from this little tug that I had when the hype was at his highest and when we're building up to the launch in the release I don't feel at all compelled to buy this new iphone like it makes changes which are in the right direction but I don't feel like it's pushing me the same way that the iphone 4 but it was first announced in the first launched just push me a fourth 32 byte essentially it was like such a big jump but Andy but then you guys are saying that the user experiences in to prove so much so maybe maybe that the thing that might convince me but but seriously above the maps issue I saw the maps on on Iowa 6 on the iPad and they look good and actually quick in terms of operation I think that they're quicker than google maps which you know is that is down to the way they're coded but the problem with them is that they actually suck in terms of just being maps so what was the experience been dead I've had a couple of crashes and freezes but nothing worse than google maps and I mean I mean I live in San Francisco and so this whole issue that Apple's maps aren't as good as Google's Maps just in terms of the raw map data for me the pain point is losing transit but in terms of you know street I mean you know apples in California and but they're getting they've got lots and lots of data from my area so like it's not a huge tragedy for me although not having transit really really sucks I think it's a bigger deal outside the US and in rural areas but there's a lot of places where the math data just isn't up to snuff and you know we've got some reports on this Chris had a report up that there was still a year left on the the Google Maps agreement between Google and Apple and Apple decided you know not not to wait it out to just you know put their app out there and apparently it took Google by surprise which is which is itself kind of surprising but nevertheless there their new app for iOS isn't isn't ready yet because of that and you know there's been a lot of complaints about the maps and I think it's I mean here's my take when Google Maps first launched on you know smartphones way back in the day that you know the Java version it was unless and you know the other day of the version that they had out there it wasn't that great it took him a long time to build up that crowd-sourced data and when i've been using mapping products you know way back to the day tomtom way back there was another one copilot they have been mapping and all these different mapping services back then it wasn't okay they were they were not that good but we dealt with it the problem now is that like the expectation is there that when you launch maps they need to be really good and it's just really hard to do that without years and years of data okies got that time at Google's had that time so these other companies also have that time but you know Apple hasn't despite the fact that its partner data brought a bunch of math data and so you know for a generation one first release smartphone Maps product I think it's quite good um you know flyovers pretty but useless but you know I think it's fast I think it's quite good uh the problem is quite good doesn't cut it anymore compared to the competition right right now absolutely I think that's actually um the thing that has turned the mapping me scandal I mean actually it's not a scandal a lot of people are annoyed with it because they're not getting same functionality but most people were actually just making really kind of poor jokes about it and just having a big laugh and I think what surprised most people even you know those not tracking the industry as closely as closely as we do is that it's a really really stark example of Apple playing catch up to others usually when I was trying to catch up to others it does is behind the scenes and just comes out with finished product you're like well there goes Apple Apple is doing the unique the amazing etc etc it's not in the other guys whereas in this instance exactly as it says this is just version one is to start over apples mapping products and it has really really obvious rough edges which were not used to see from apple and speak in a rough edges is a kick-ass segue the aluminium on the iphone has been chipping away if you guys had that so yeah this mine has not a chip but a cleared up scuff mark and it had it right out of the box and I'm I'm frankly surprised by this because we know that it's possible to make aluminum that is very hard to scratch and get the shiny partner leaves we know because HTC did it with the 1s and yes the 1s cancel it scratches but it seems like the the iphone it's much simpler to do and show the shiny part underneath well I think the in the case of the 1s that is a very unique treatment to that particular device that is like not anodization it's not electroplating it's like or maybe it is a form of electroplating but it's a it's a very intensive type of coating that that happens to that and you know I there were reports of that shipping as well especially right when the the phone first came out and it's quite apparent that that none of that treatment has been applied to the iphone 5 it this seems like a standard anodization type of coating on top of it which frankly you know when you put other pieces of metal against it it will scratch kind of easily I think the the real controversy or the uproar is that people like you said dieter are finding it this way out of the box which is again not something that you expect to see from Apple devices apples always been lauded and is always taken hide regard for its type quote unboxing experience of pulling a device out for the first time and everything is pristine and clean and perfect and that's just not the case for some people with the iphone 5 just respect to the 1s I'm that the name of that process is being printed in my mind because I've written and said it so many times it's micro oxidation oxidation yeah that is micro as my bath right yeah the plasma blast that's yeah and millions and millions of volts of electricity and all other sorts of exciting stuff and yeah I mean on the scrapping if if asked me in a year after I my phone gotten scratched and dinged up if I'm angry about it because assisting get scratched and dinged up and it looks kind of cool and distressed yeah then I'm totally happy with like that's actually like kind of needs a lot you know give my phone character and it'll look you know it'll it looks like the black phone looks like murder now and have a look like like the stress burger would actually be really cool yeah that's like making a little bit yeah if it's like the little over the ipod's that scratch like crazy yeah in scrap yeah it looks like crap after it scratched then I'll be angry but I you know I'll just have to wait and see well if it has one thing going for this is I mention dish is it I think even if you got scratched a matte finish won't look quite like as crappy as the the chrome finishes at the old ipads ipods head yeah theory yeah but but also the issue with apple's iphone design since the iphone 4 and I've been banging on about it is that it's kind of too fragile and it's also tries to be a little bit too perfect I mean we saw Johnny I've at the iphone 5 presentation and he was talking about again this is the most exacting design where ever done it's the best product of them yeah yeah yeah but it but it is true that the design is so exacting and it's really trying to go for this luxury look and appeal and there's also the glass parts on the back this is the thing that convinces me that the new iphone isn't going to look really really awesome when you scratched up because I know exactly what details talking about when you have an aluminum products whether it be cameras like somebody's NEX series Oh some of the older generation smart phones from HT in particular and a piece of a few scuffs and scratches it kind of feels like he's your own or even even like a wristwatch you know titanium wristwatches people think titanium is such a harder material doesn't scratch actually does um I scratched my titanium watch in a week later ya know but I have a psychosis in it watch and actually like it scratches like kind of like piece of my own this tells me that I've had this product for a long time we've been through things together even if they are just completely mundane right the reason I don't think that is going to work with the iphone 5 design is because of those glass parts which move in a whole different design direction they're about perfection and about you know looking really pretty as opposed to the ruggedness of having scratches but that's only one aspect it's one aspect and the other thing I wanted to discuss is actually the front of the phone sticks to from what I can tell sticks to the exact same you know one big plate of glass design which would be so vulnerable and the iphone 4 and 4s design and i think that's that's probably the thing that's putting me off the most from the new iphone 5 if i don't think this software um and I think the mapping issue is something is going to put me off so a deal-breaker for me um I don't think things like oh wow this phone has 1280x720 resolution and the iphone doesn't have that exact same resolution those aren't do brakes to be but I just don't trust that i can use the FM five in the way to like these phones and having survived that whole year that these were talking about like you just gotta stop dropping your phone about him to be it yeah you just go I think I mean I think that the iPhone 5 is a bit more rugged than the for the 4s I mean I mean yes of course apartments that doesn't have glass on the back but it does feel like and maybe just kind of lighter so it's most likely to crack and drop it but it does feel like it's less likely to shatter if I drop it the other thing that I fix it fell and they did their teardown is they changed up the way that the phone is put together and so you can take the first thing to come off is that the screen and the display assembly and so it should be much simpler to replace displays and you know cheaper at least for Apple to take take a broken screen replace with the new screen you don't have to take the whole phone apart you can just take the screen off and pop anyone on it right I think there was actually some some commotion that Apple traditionally with the iphone if you had a broken iphone and you went to an apple store they just kind of would take it and replace it with a new version or a new model entirely and now i think there was a report saying that with the iphone 5 the stores are planning to fix the screen in the store instead of giving you a whole replacement so yeah that definitely should cut costs for Apple at least if not for for you I was just gonna say that cheaper for Apple but does that mean cheaper for the user yeah it usually doesn't when you get is pretty straightforward um you know savings and costs for whatever reason they just can't seem to trickle down which you know oh I didn't insist economy you would think trickle-down economics you know foundation of her pink good and holy and all that stuff but anyway i'm straying into a whole lot of territory can we can we wrap up this really really famous and over this class phone by talking about verizon and the OT situation yeah so this is like really interesting it's a familiar story so the iphone 5 if you buy it from verizon it has a sim card slot just like the sprint model and the AT&T model but the sim card on the iphone 5 from verizon is actually unlocked so you can actually put an AT&T sim card in there and walk around using it on AT&T hspa+ network which is a bit of a surprise none of the other LTE phones at verizon has released are unlocked in such a fashion if you try to put an AT&T sim into it it won't work and so it's been kind of a bit of a surprise we did see this last year with the 4s from sprint came with a sim card slot unlocked out of the box and it was later on shortly after the release of the phone it was updated to actually lock the slot but what's different is that Verizon saying that they're not going to lock it in the future their plan to leave it and keep it unlocked which started a kind of a snowball of theories thinking that the FCC's laws on the 700 megahertz spectrum that Verizon uses for its LTE network was requiring verizon to unlock the sim card slot for everyone but Chris did an excellent report that kind of debunked that theory and since the sim card slot that part that's unlocked to use that allows you to use the phone on 18 T's met work isn't doesn't even run on the 700 megahertz spectrum and among other reasons we kind of debunked that theory that it's it's just verizon's just doing it for whatever reason it feels like and mostly that it probably doesn't feel that it has a big loss to sell the phone unlocked instead of being forced by the SEC I mean why do you think without doing it then right you know but if I hang on real quickly what's verizon motivation at the FCC forcing their hat if it's not is it is it Apple course in their hand is it verizon just like coldly calculating well well I don't think that I don't think Apple wants to buy it I don't think app is involved at all they've okay so surprised and let's let's just assume that is it because they're going to have they know the verizon LTE works better for LTE global roaming and surviving just like straight up saying well if somebody really cares about unlocking or having you know i'm not gsm then we're gonna go ahead and offer that to them and not really advertise it but just have it be out there no because that's what their justification motivation is actually makes me really angry why because like though they will lock stuff down for no other reason or for whatever their reasons are for walking stuff down like rising always does but there's one time they're like oh well we can get a little bit bit of an edge here so let's just not lock at this time it's like you know be consistent yeah well be a jerk being jerk all the time we tested this with with verizon's other LTE phones like we had a razr m and we put an AT&T sim card slot and it would refuse to work it was definitely locked and that's a you know very recent LTE phone from verizon so why Verizon's doing it with the iphone 5 i really don't have a great answer other than it just doesn't feel like there's a big loss for it if it's unlocked I think that most I have a theory I have a theory oh hello hey mr. Ziegler's here I'm so glad he's doing Machiavellian Chris because I that that's what my theories uh well as sorry i was i was off having some really important DM conversations with the federal communications commission that's why plate oh my god but yeah so so iphone 5 unlock so here's my theory i'm actually going to reject your theory deaton replace with my own i think what's happening is verizon realizes that the iphone 5 is the first c block device that's high profile enough to catch attempt to catch the you know the attention of a mainstream news outlets which in turn is going to catch the attention or a het you know be more likely to catch the attention of the FCC so i think that they're actually hedging their bets and saying well you know it because everyone that I've talked to like no one seems to be able to agree on exactly what the rules mean whether only the c-block support of the device needs to be unlocked or if the entire phone needs to be unlocked I think the rules are intentionally hazy they never been tested nobody really knows what they means and we won't know what they mean until we go through the court system which we haven't yet i'm sure it's inevitable at some point is going to happen but in the meantime I think that verizon is just hedging their bets okay well it certainly is giving verizon a fair amount of good press because on the surface it looks like a consumer-friendly move at least what I'm sure well yeah I don't see a bunch of people let me keep in mind that that the iPhone 5 is one of the very few devices where the subsidy is greater than the ETF that's very very rare so or at least by this margin it's it's rare you know you get the UM the 399 device and I mean I actually I guess the the subsidy is the same across all three models but anyway so you know you can you can get a device on contract from verizon immediately break your contract pay the etf and then take it to simple mobile you know or t-mobile and there you go any tmobile is pushing their iphone you know support so hard right now it's hilarious you know they're issuing press releases on it so you know I think that Verizon could end up becoming a reliable and desirable source for these unlock devices which is absolutely blows my mind knowing how verizon's been for the past decade so that's just it's just like really hard for me to wrap my head around that although let's just say for the record we don't agree with dita who says if you're gonna be a jerk just be check over the time like if this is the start of a beautiful new relationship between verizon its users for whatever reason that's a good thing and so it's all consistently trying to derail you guys from discussing the f of 5 and verizon but for the sake of our non-us audience and the sake of our audience who might be a little bit sick of this phone by now which i am and i didn't have to got that thing can we please talk about HTC's windows phones because they're kind of sexy yeah we need a super sexy let's talk I mean we talked like we didn't really talk about the molasses week I guess we our show was just before the announcement so we didn't really know what was going to happen HTC revealed its Windows Phone 8 X and Windows Phone 8 s last week both of which look like really attractive devices that are running the obviously Windows Phone 8 platform and what might be the most interesting part about this story is the new rekindled tight relationship that HTC and Microsoft have for these devices so far or to the point where Microsoft actually picked the name out for the smartphones and put Windows Phone right in the name and is calling these signature devices for the platform which is a little bit different of a relationship then HTC has enjoyed with Microsoft in the past and now Nokia was you know the the chosen one for for windows phone for a long time or at least that's how it seemed and so so there's a little bit different in a little bit of a shake-up in the Windows Phone family I guess you could say you know just what are we about a month away from its expected launch did anyone figure out what a signature device actually means like what are they saying with those words well it's going to be the center of the marketing for windows phone 8 by Microsoft so if we see marker Microsoft marketing windows phone 8 like if we see a printed add you know I would expect to see these HTC devices front and center and then you know maybe to the side you'll see the Nokia maybe two further to the side you'll see the samsung's which is kind of e pretty brave and that's okay yes the atif is actually going to bring a windows phone into its own and it's going to become the dominant form because of the atif duty vests oh don't forget that how much nobody actually see the eyes and yet it's still pretty much like a rendering a photo out of so at the moment but you know I actually got to see the 8x today in fact um because I'm special and HDD special things like that for me and for first of all I think we need to separate the 8x + 8 a little bit the HS is such a mess of color that I struggle to comprehend it I think it has like four different color options and only one of them is relatively consistent in being reddish throughout there's the yellow gray and black version me you guys have seen these right they kind of I think a yellow gray and black version is so hot I think the yellow gray and black is is of all of the ones for the 8's I think the yellow gray in black is the winner I mean it just looks cool yeah nuts your guys backing out he's not right Alabama wait wait you're talking about the 8's right yes damn yes correct a test yeah the for each one the smaller one the mid-ranger well that phone is completely irrelevant so it's all about the 8x I mean look you know yeah i will say that that HTC has taken a very very different um like you know you can look at it two ways dan i'm thinking back to your report on you know color and how that's really playing into Windows Phones angle but color Assad yes both the the new HTC's and also of course the nokias are very colorful if you look beyond that I think I just think that these are very different devices alumi 920 in the 8x because the the 920 is such a thick and heavy phone uh that's really pushing camera quality and that's something the 8x is not really seeking to do in as much thinner and I think sexier um so yeah well i don't know i don't know if that's accurate though because HTC's like big differentiator with its any of its devices but you know is the the image sense chip is going to be in the 8x which is the first time for a Windows Phone device to have the image sense so I think as far as in HGC size it definitely is innovating on the image front obviously you know to the rest of us it's not doing nearly as much as the Lumia 920 is but as far as being totally different devices the the 8x and the 920 look really similar from the front and if you like turn them on the side it just looks like the 8x is a flattened version of the 920 yeah but what uh well in pictures maybe but I feel like in person they end up cuddling you have the opportunity to hold them back to back they end up being very different phones I think very much so very much so just to mention here somebody tweeted the because when Wendy a days and the EDX would be in announced tomorrow is the guy who covered in their whole release and got to play with him a lot more than myself over here in London ah my excuse me that I wasn't in the country otherwise I would have been it all over them but so I was a little bit detached from them but somebody tweeted at me saying hey Vlad somebody took the 1x or other HTC took the 1x display and they shrunk it down to 4.3 inches you must be you know prune about it you must be really excited so I was like what I need to take a look at this freaking windows phone 8x display and I don't know that is i I really don't think it's the same exact technology so 1x it isn't quite so vibrant doesn't have quite the same viewing angles but he's really good space like that I think it's very so to what we saw on the rezound last year the resound was a 4.3 inch super lcd2 with the 720p display I think it might it might be a little bit a newer version of that as opposed to the e1 X's displays shrunken down but so true but I mean I'm fat I do i do like to display on the EDX just like Chris i'm also a fan of the build in the design and i definitely think that when you get the 912 money in hand in the 8x in hand you can tell a big difference and immediately I can tell you that I prefer the 8x again because it's smaller because then our lights etc not say the United 20 is a bad photo device but it's still a big bigger and chunky um but HTC is really shoot using itself in the foot by losing track of the details with the EDX and the details of the a legs actually color and maybe I'm being extremely nitpicky here but the volume slider the power button and the camera button there a sort of orange-ish red whereas on the red model that is where as the phone itself is a pinky shade of red and I re just really like the red version of this phone um but they just stop matching all the colors so that bread version actually has three different shades of the color the yellow / green version again has multiple shades of the color and it's those little things that just kind of pesterin know you and just finally to mention on this topic of the camera HTTR still keeping software lock down completely like they wouldn't let me unlock the phone like this there's an actual passcode lock on the phone but because of the Windows Phone own camera functionality you can actually turn on the camera without unlocking the phone and take a few photos and look at the photos and I'm actually impressed by the EDX just I just took a few quick photos with it and I'm impressed by his camera quality I thought that phone is so thin they would go for a really cheap camera sensor and it doesn't seem that have which is you know thumbs up so far aren't they I just like to point out how crazy it is that we've had we have five now windows phone 8 devices to Nokia's to htcs and Samsung's achieve and Microsoft like is not like and any of these fun unveilings you know letting people see the full story of Windows Phone 8 no and end the software is know when you're done because even though they were locked one of them managed to crash most butta in the same way I really don't think I'm supposed to be saying this but whatever I didn't sign any embargo she's so silly you guys the software is not done and it's slow and everybody down and everybody would just love to be able to show off their devices to the fullest but you're gonna have to wait and if we trust someone which I do if I had kids or trust someone with my kids it's basically gonna happen I think October 28 what's going to happen October you mean the the unveiling of the platform right I think we just lost Vlad yeah that's when we're expecting to see windows phone 8 debut entirely so that will see everything that Microsoft has been essentially holding back from us to this up to this point if they've been holding anything back I don't think yeah clear that they had well I mean I think I think Microsoft would like us to think that it's been holding a lot of things back and that's the reason that it doesn't want us to see any of the software yet but you know you have a good point Chris they could not be they could they could just be if they're not holding it from the react then I'm going to storm Redmond with pitchforks all tables and Redmond will be flipped if there's nothing new it's like here it is the thing that we would let you see for the past three months what did you guys know it has screenshots it can do screenshots well so far so far what does eight have that 7.8 does not um we know that it has the the kids feature kids pune not on the side kids corner office or something with brooms or something is that is that eight exclusive or is it oh I know I know windows phone 8 supports higher resolution displays in multi-core processors all right have a 10-point 87.8 is mostly going to be for existing hardware anyway right so but i mean you know i'm just saying that liking you know when these when these platforms come out presumably they're going to be differences between the two I suppose if Microsoft is holding anything back it would be that that's a pretty big thing to to you know with Holden that we haven't seen and we're not clear on yet what's that differences between 7.88 right yeah well yeah I know this that's exactly my point yeah right we can expect some some enterprise stuff that will only work in a teeny on terms of device management and other corporate e-type things you haven't nobody cuz that's one of the big advantages to switching to the new ride structure the colonel right yeah I I heard a rumor I heard a rumor a few weeks ago from a very reliable source that Microsoft made a last minute to port a bunch of supposedly eight exclusive features back to 7.8 which I don't push both yeah which I think pushed both versions back a bit and and I was chatting with Tom about and he said yeah that made a lot of sense so so it seems like they might be looking to actually close the gap between 7.8 Nate I don't know if that's designed to appease the ten existing owners or okay I mean you've already taken the bad the bad press from having it you know having to confirm that you wouldn't offer an upgrade path from windows phone 7 Windows 2000 night you've already like given the fig leaf or the the olive branch of a few features I mean just stick to your guns and focus on the new platform don't spend don't spend your cycles on 7 and I know that's crazy to me to say but once you've made the decision and already taken the hit so not offering a full upgrade I mean unless there's something there that they're back porting that they feel is essential to the entire ecosystem so that that all widows song can play together and have this feature I wouldn't spend the development cycles on it right yeah i mean i would agree i don't i don't know what their business I mean first of all it's a rumor but secondly um you know we yeah we don't know what the business logic is right so I mean I totally agree with both of you well you know if that is true then you know why would you waste time supporting the older platform on when you know for all things considered your your bet is on the new platform and and all the things that are involved with that so we have we are stuck in 10 years on hey blends best what we doing well with that dieter we got really quick about Nokia's response to uh you know HTC announced that it was a little bit caddy as I recall it was it was very caddy let me see if I could pull it up here now the official response was referred to it as a quote technical rebranding and then you know a Nokia's executive Chris Webber posted some tweets saying that it takes more than matching colors to match the innovation of the Lumia 920 and happy to add a new signature to the windows phone ecosystem behind the Lumia new 20 or 920 so so it's you know it's a bit of a caddy back and forth and I don't think we really expected nokia to respond in this fashion I certainly didn't I well but I mean they are it is a really weird spot that Microsoft is almost throwing a whole bunch of love behind HTC after you know everybody just sort of spotted not yet the flagship Windows Phone device or om it you know the difference is like if a cici's windows phone 8x and 8s and I still am angry at HTC for calling phones x and s because I've got to enunciate so hard to shake them anyway if they say they bomb out they don't work they still they can still take you know another shot in Android I mean lord knows that they're not going to stop making android phones but nokia is all in like if in windows phone doesn't work for nokia they don't really have a viable plan B not in not in the short term not for you know if they might have something skunk works but they're they're not coming out with another source file s I highly doubt that they would go to Android and and it's interesting the relationship or this new promotion behind HTC from Microsoft because Nokia's put so much more investment into the Windows Phone platform between its dedicated apps for the platform it's you know pretty much essentially pushed aside every other smartphone platform in order to push its weight behind Windows Phone so yeah like you're saying if windows phone fails nokia kind of goes down with it at least from what we can tell now i think that microsoft owes it to all of its Windows Phone OEMs I mean these guys need to really stick together right now they can't afford to be into you know to have a civil war and it's microsoft's responsibility as the as the patron saint of this platform to kind of keep the OEMs in line and this behavior that they're exhibiting with the so called signature HTC phones is not conducive to a healthy relationship between these OEMs obviously and and it's it's very strange to me that they're doing this i think that they need to be treating these OEMs equally and fairly and i think that that after you know it took them a long time to try to convince everybody that that their relationship with non nokia liam's would not be damaged by the nokia partnership and they got over that hump and HTC and samsung came back to the table with additional phones and now look what's happening now HTC is getting this special treatment and it's very strange to me because you know to what end like a customer a customer goes into a store they're certainly not going to say i want the signature phone because what does that mean but then it even worse if a sales guy to them and says well at these two devices we have this Lumia 920 and then we have from Nokia and then we have this HTC phone that's the signature phone oh that what you know then the the customers can be like well I don't know what that means but that sounds important or good or something I guess I'll take the HTC it's just bad like that they should Microsoft should be should be the Switzerland of this platform and they're not being that at all yeah yeah no I feel like this entire a move to brand the HTC devices signature devices is superfluous it's not something that Microsoft needed to do which together with the move to the movie you guys were discussing to at Port features down to Windows Phone 8 7.8 is kind of you can just move on you know you're big enough your major enough people will follow you or do you know burn for the fact that another doing it I mean HTC still kind of wants to be split between Android and Windows Phone and as Dan was saying earlier is now reemphasize in Windows Phone those companies in samsung they prefer to have some sort of a fallback plan if things don't go perfectly according to plan with Android so I mean in my only justification for Microsoft might be to say that HTC won't have invested so heavily into designing let's say the windows phone 8x I'm not going to give HT that much credit for the siding t8s so maybe that's what it is microscope in giving HC that branding and that extra cachet gets in return more investment more design time more production time from HTC basically just gets better phones I don't know I just feel like that might have been something Michael could have just simply paid for given that has cash reserves and all of that but also let's go to measure the Microsoft has a signature series with Windows laptops and maybe desktops as well but just windows in general and the the Signature Series in Windows was just the bloatware free versions which is kind of hilarious because that basically means every Windows Phone device ever shipped it's pretty much signature because Microsoft looks down software so tight so if you have a windows phone it's a signature Windows Phone you can tell people that covers gonna know to me so you can tell him that well I mean well what what HTC was saying and Microsoft was saying about the naming of these devices is as far as what the signature means I believe Steve Ballmer might have said this or was an HTC executive that said when somebody goes to a store and they want a microsoft phone or a windows phone you know this phone has windows phone right in its name it's pretty obvious what it is and and I think that was what the idea behind the naming of these windows phone 8 X and Windows Phone 8 s was well it's pretty easy to have a parallel to go ahead dinner I was good they do have to call it the the windows phone 8x running windows on the Windows Phone 8 Windows Phone 8x would it be even less excusing is the windows phone 8x running Android that would really blow minds oh my god thought I should be proud with that hardware d by cool but what I was just going to mention is that you know Microsoft has has already had this signature program in place on Windows where if you go into a microsoft store they sell a number of so-called signature devices that are stripped completely free of third-party software essentially and it's just you know pure windows instead of all the crap where that usually get when you when you buy a new pc and and so you know from that perspective if you think of it that way Microsoft is really slapping Nokia in the face because they're saying well you know we don't want all your crap we're on these on these windows phones so we're going to give a special brand to these htcs which are basically a shipping you know quote unquote stock even though I don't I'm not too comfortable using the term stock talking about a Windows Phone device but you know bay if you think about it like that you know people draw that parallel that if they've heard the term signature used with Windows PCs before then then that's certainly the impression they're going to get with these files it correct me if I'm wrong because I may be like totally hi but it isn't nokia providing the mapping services for all of Windows Phone 8 yes so so essentially it be like Microsoft we don't want all of your crap where we'll take some of it but we want this other stuff that you insist on putting here but we'll take your Maps the end and we'll use those and we're going to give those everybody else as well well yeah I'm just worries to your Q point here just two quick point it first of all Chris somehow managed to miss the bit where I mentioned in the signature windows devices and decided to make that point after me but but key augmented it with something interesting about nokia so i guess we just allow that oh so I'm I'm a dueto con look flat Vlad I'm I'm in a talk only mode right now I'm not listening i'm only time how's that a different second profile the second point actually uh i still remember with microsoft annakut and alcohol partnership and microsoft's was making such a huge deal out of all the maps being integrated into microsoft's just broad range of mapping services it wasn't just going to be four it was just going to be big maps it was going to become big maps and that's what it's going right now that nokia's maps is essentially becoming Microsoft's mapping software and to me at the time I was like why don't make it such a big deal out of something so kind of regular and commercialize mapping and now that Apple is trying to do it by itself I can really see why that was such a big deal for Microsoft autotech acquiring that part of Nokia was probably worth it for Microsoft just to save itself the source of headaches that Apple is enjoying right now because if you think apple is having headaches with maps and just imagine a company that doesn't have the same level of customer trust that Apple has trying to sell them that sort of service it would just be a nightmare and and and very good point bud but so here's clearly what happened back five six years ago when HTC and Microsoft were flying as high as a more fluid windows mobile peter chao acc CEO and see Ballmer were out partying and Steve Ballmer like accidentally killed somebody and only Peter to figure out the only witness and so rather than report him he took a chimp and now that HTC is fallen on hard times and the 13 hasn't done so well he cast that ship in so that is why they get to call their phones windows song I'm bomber killing somebody Steve Ballmer killing somebody is is a is one of the the storylines and pulp fiction if i'm not mistaken oh man got weird really so so long of Silvio's yeah let's talk about those ten times and what he had to show us and tell us at the new blackberry jam or some such a like just a nice guy I mean compared to Missouri tussenbaugh silly like he gets on stage is just what I like just like took him on the shoulder oh good job man uh and the other thing that's great about them is she doesn't lie about what blackberry is any more like he admits that they're you know they're not going to be number one which was you know he had this Q&A after blackberry 10 was quasi sort of kind of announced for the second time but not fully and out where he said we have a clear shot at number three and later on he you know he clarified and said no no I mean we're aiming for number one long term and number one in all of mobile computing in fact even took a swipe at Microsoft like you don't understand people aren't going to use pcs phones and tablets we could be number one or both of us long term but in the short term is like we're aiming for numbers for we know for a verse number one we have a clear shot of number three and they think they can pull it off and I don't know so settlement context but what they announced which was blackberry 10 and a new device your developers well I mean if we want to do that that was happening but this delay isn't the problem at all guys don't go ahead dieter well okay I'll just jump into riffing on what blackberry 10 is so we've already seen some of it they showed it up once and then what they showed off this time wasn't the whole thing again but it was like another iteration and they're in this weird spot where they've got to keep showing different parts of it so they can get developers excited to make apps because they need out to make the platform succeed but they don't want to actually have their full amount so they have these like half announcements so what we saw blackberry 10 is we finally know what like the full you I paradigm looks like and it's weird like you have up to eight apps running out of time and they're always running just like on the playbook and they sit in these little things that they're calling active frames which by the way is the worst name ever for a UI element and they're like little miniature versions of the app and you can you know switch between those really easily by swiping up on the screen there's a grid icon on the right hand side of the home screen swipe over to those and then on the left hand side of the home screen and actually in the left hand side of every single screen is the same are calling blackberry hub and what that is is the unified like messaging and notification zone where all your emails are your Twitter messages are there your linkedin messages you there your facebook messages are there and it's also like developers concern notifications in that area so you can make this swipe up into the right gesture which it works pretty well but it's not quite as fluid as it could be from anywhere in the u.s. to jump right into your notifications in your email which is kind of cool it's kind of clever if you'd like if you use your phone primarily for messaging it makes a lot of sense so can I just jump in here quickly because I was looking at that and I couldn't possibly avoid thinking of the nokia n9 and the Mego Harmison you I uh because that was based around three central home screens which were notifications applications and multitasking and in particular with rooms blackberry 10 you have four of these active frames where you preview you I mean it's essentially visual multitasking they're previewed the applications that you have running and and the nokia n9 also has the same for for rap interface so to me it was like you're just copying them i mean i think it's a good thing to copy but it's like where's innovation room okay so i want that for me go they copied from web alas they've copied from the iphone because you can you know eat drag-and-drop icon the icon grid just like the iphones icon grid I think they steal anything from Android yeah you swipe down from the top to bring up menus and stuff I guess that's that's not android that's more or less again but like you know unified notifications they basically just borrowed from everything they could and talk to the other no less and so the question is going to be like will it when you actually use a day to day will it feel you know elegant and awesome or will it just feel kind of cobbled together well there there are two things to keep in mind here one is that I'm assuming that they still have a number of tat employees working on this UI and aunt at has done some really great stuff in the past and and also we heard at some point I don't know if if this is something that we that we wrote about or not but we've definitely heard that there was a concentrated effort at some point in rims recent history to hire ax webos people and of course we saw a lot of striking similarities with uh with the playbook and and you know I think that that's I'm going but but one but one very important point that I wanted to make that absolutely no one on this podcast has made yet is that there's some striking similarities to Nokia's harmattan you I at this point I'm just rolling Vlad that's a that's a very original point there Chris I'd like to hear you elaborate so I have please do Chris well I want to say going back to the comment of being number three or they have a clear shot at being number three just for us to be clear right now room is in number three it is still the third most dominant smartphone platform so really what they're clear shot is just trying to hold on to what they have and not let any more that slip through their fingers yeah he may have been referring to number three in North America and I don't know if they still managed to hang on a number three in North America and he may have even been referring to like number three speaking from an oem standpoint so the Apple Samsung and then rim instead of iOS Android and then blackberry but I mean let's really they also got some new enterprise stuff they've got the you know saying where you can launch secure enterprise apps right next to your regular apps and those weird toggle thing that you dragged down on a blank spot on the icon screen to switch between which apps you can see it's pretty weird but I mean if you gotta have secure apps that's you know you got to do something that's going to be an elegant no matter what but like this is this this battle is between Microsoft Windows Phone 8 and rim and they're both trying to square the circle of appealing to enterprise and CIOs and IT guys for managing devices in a corporation and consumers at the same time and I mean I think Microsoft really believes it's going to just completely take over whatever rim at left and rim is doing everything it can if that's been happening and until that battle shakes out you know they're not going to be able to actually take on Android and iOS in a real way okay so DJ I have a question for you so if you just assume for a moment that we anticipate to be the first BlackBerry device gladbury London also also was codenamed just imagine that it has great industrial design so let's take industrial design out of the picture imagine also has a great camera let's take those aspects the hardware away from it are you excited by this software they saying today my yes it's it's a company together of a whole bunch of what we still think a good ideas from other operating systems but if you see it all come together with great industrial design and is that it actually flows and is responsive with your big assumptions does that excite you are you going to be psyched for first half of next year I'm intrigued like I'm I'm interested I mean you know um dan was complaining that my my hands on post with the latest version of that blackberry 10 beta was really long it was like well yeah but this is the first new smartphone operating system since Windows Phone and so it at least deserve some attention because like they're trying to make something out of it and there are some pretty good ideas here so I like good ideas I like movie successful so from that perspective like I'm interested but am I psyched am I excited there's nothing here that like makes my jaw drop there's nothing here that needs to go oh my god I must have that and I don't know what that would be in the mobile space right now because I'm cynical and jaded and hate everything but they definitely don't have that and since they definitely don't have that you know I don't know what they can do to get it and I don't know if you know is it isn't enough to like tread water which seems to be kind of their office and I pick up a little bit back in North America it might be especially if like the what's left of the loyal BlackBerry users are willing to transition over to a relatively quickly but they definitely don't have something that is going to make somebody not buy an iphone right now they definitely don't have something to make something not buy an android phone and wait like it's it's cool it's interesting but it's not like oh my god I must have that and I honestly don't know what they could have done to like engender that feeling I wish they had kind of because you know I make the underdogs but they haven't done that here so far i think it's a it's a striking difference from what we saw in 2009 when webos was introduced when webos was introduced i think it had a lot of those things that are like oh my god this is incredible and it's like you know really cool new ideas that we haven't seen anybody done before or anybody do before and it's like one of those i must have a type of deals we all know how that worked out in the long run but rim doesn't like dita were saying have any of that these are all ideas that we've seen before that are just kind of cobbled together here and there into this rim playbook type of user interface shrunk down onto a small screen well I mean I will say like if hub is done right that is actually kind of new but it's just not that like it's not like that jazzy right about that holy crappy is it's like oh hey you've got all your messages a notification in one place where like acting on the messages and like talking to people on doing emails in the same place as you know your Twitter notifications and your push notifications from your game and whatever else so like taking those two functions and sort of throwing them all into one you know relatively can be in place a successful trip anywhere is a really cool idea it but you know we have to see if that it's actually the work I mean the other thing to point out is we haven't seen the full final feature set of the OS they haven't officially launched this yet we don't know you know they have officially launching devices but they're in this weird spot where they're like they're showing little bits and bobs of the OS and then when they finally will completely launch it a lot of it's going to go well we saw that before and they're in a rock and a hard place because they've got to do this to get developers because they got to get whatever apps that they can and so like I don't know that I would not want to be in rims position and you're right that there are a lot of parallels to level s and one of the parallels they're afraid of is announcing everything and then having six months of waiting before they actually ship something so they're announcing as much as they have to in order to get developers but they're trying to minimize the amount of time between the whole launch and availability or devices can we talk about their other efforts to woo developers aside from teachers in there no s rejected an gonna have whoa I didn't see it you didn't see it might have been the best thing on the internet yesterday I think we might have it have it queued up to play a clip for the show is that is that true I think I'm getting the nod from our control room yeah yeah so we kind of have to let make this happen one okay so glad I really hope that you're paying attention to this you know since you insist that you had not seen it yesterday now I didn't know we'd swim the rack we have let me say that is this video killed at the developer event everybody loved it they ended up they thought it was awesome and I don't mean that they thought it was awesome on ironically everybody was in on the joke including you know Alec on stage God the head of developer relations together you know the frontman for this discover it was all everybody thought it was funny and everybody was in on the joke that they were sort of making fun of themselves because you know there's really there's a big circle the wagons tality around blackberry people right now library developers so it let off a bunch of steam um but I mean it's like cringing Li like hard to watch right and so the problem is like they put it on the internet and so while like I get the joke and developers get the joke is like you know somebody who has a some teenager has a blackberry and uses for BBM that you know is going to see this completely out of context going to get the joke and appreciate what they're trying to do yeah but now listen then bream has already said the boss so freaking low yeah I mean I can't even get the bar in the frame here like it's so low with his previous advertising the list this is just excellence rim this is excellent I think I think they had one with a believer's Christina Milian and admittedly my expertise on pop sing singers isn't as great as my expertise on HTS backlog of devices um but it was like a really really terrible confused wicked ad which I think it has something to do BBM I don't even remember I just I just remember being kind of cringing on rooms behalf you know it wasn't nursing on rooms behalf and I'm totally with you I I can see why people like this because it shows exactly you're saying a sort of self-awareness from rim and a sort of humility that you absolutely will never have seen from my class radius and from the former company so this just makes a company more approachable and being an underdog now which is what room is acting like one will help it ultimately and I understand that a lot of developers I'm just going to start investing you know their careers in two rib just because it's a cute company but it doesn't hurt I thought I was effing one I was nothing to say pletely I thought oh that wasn't like completely cringing and freaked out by his video I did I know that other people at the verge like this is the worst thing I've ever seen Josh like he tweeted this is the worse video I've ever seen I'm like it's bad so I mean it's in feel it just feels very microsoft ii like this is something Microsoft would have done in 1998 and it just it just kind of reeks of that I know it's it's it's supposed to be a very self-aware tongue-in-cheek to everything but just it just reeks of that corporate doesn't really get it type of vibe when you're seeing it from the outside if you're not there at the the dose first thing he's been kind of but yeah hey guys it can we talk about the iphone 5 for a minute I just have as I i hate to completely change so we'll get back to rim but I was just sitting here holding this iphone 5 and I observed something very important buy you a top I got back up stop stop right there I just want to point out that the thing that chris said would happen last week of a podcast is exactly what happened he didn't pre-order he said he wasn't ready and then he went and waited in line I want to say that you said you were waiting in the knife online not one but two days in a row is that true no you're making that up i was there only on friday okay yeah um it no actually I was I was in a tent in front the apple store the night before no yeah it was really easy yeah I guess I should talk about my my experience getting phone this so you know 18 he just opened this quote-unquote chip store in Chicago which we we did a piece on not too long ago and I think everyone just kind of forgot that it existed because it was like there were like you know 10 people in line for the phone at 4pm on friday and they had stock of everything they were no danger of running out of anything meanwhile like a block down the street at the apple store you knows Lionel around the block so um yeah anyway so but no the only point I wanted to make I'll be real quick about this is that if you hold the iphone 5 until this side to side the screen gets very dim which is something that you don't have on the 1x if i remember correctly so i would i would venture to say that the 1x retains the title of the best i display on on a mobile phone so you're saying to be the viewing angles of the 1x are better than the iphone 5s this way yes ok yeah i think i agree with that although Chris I gotta say Vlad made that exact point earlier well my only goal is to remake every point that glad makes from now on on everybody when I was making that point I was making about the 8x not about the iphone and I'm sure the purses around at that time because Chris salty at some point like a superhero right well I guess I was too busy dealing with the FCC so yeah Christmas goal is to make your point over and over again and my goal is to just roll the podcast and lie and take us off topic and get derailed which I have done successfully also there's one other things that I want to say about rim that they gave out new developer devices to the developers here a client dev alpha B and you know they said they'd ran out of the original ones they had to give out you know make new ones and looking at these new ones like it's really really obvious that this is basically the the health series of London the first device is going to ship and what they did is they took off the outer casing of the phone and replaced it with a big ugly plastic box like it's very clear that's what happened that makes perfect sense too because you know why would they spend money making another device for developers when they you know they need to start making the actual phone so if they're going to actually hit you know their ship date they need to have stuff in carrier testing now in fact they do have stuff and carrier testing now so why would they waste resources making a phone that they're never going to ship when they could use the actual phone just put a different box on it so that you know it doesn't do not accidentally announcing the device today right by the way dad what is it really this on the under dev alpha but what's happening there was a post it was the screen resolution etc I'm kind of odd but yet they're not talking processor but it's 16 gigs of storage gig of ram and a 1280 by 768 screen and i'm pretty sure 20 LED and you know with ice you know there's some hang-ups and crashes but when blackberry 10 works and it's not bugging out which is still is a little bit because it's you know still in beta it's actually really fast really responsive some pretty pleased with it the the screen resolution is interesting because they've remembers told developers that they should target 1280 by 720 and 720 x 720 but got the first device of chips would be 768 x 1280 and like that's just kind of weird that you know they're telling developers to target the screen resolution that isn't going to be on the first flagship divisive issue yeah that is odd and it'll be interesting to see how that's handled if it's done with blood or boxing or I guess zooming or stretching yeah I'm pretty sure they recommended letterbox so is that a sign that RIM no longer has the the component muscle to like source displays that they want instead they had to take what was available on the market I think it definitely could be I also think that it might them giving developers that guidance is actually kind of a nice thing because you know they knew that the the square one is going to be 720 x 720 so they're just giving the developers as few targets as possible which is something that room has never done like developing for blackberry has always been a huge mess and you know rim is pretty much admitted it and so it's as I was talking about the chemical crackberry about this a little bit that they're probably going to they're getting smarter about sourcing stuff and they're getting smarter about making fewer versions of you know their hardware because with old blackberry devices there was like redoing it all over again every time they ship the phone but I'm guessing it that was just a matter like they have the screen natcha and that the next one's good be 720 and so they just tried to simplify the message to their developers was there any uh any other features of the dev alpha be hardware that kind of stood out to you or just kind of money it's got NFC I mean it's got a camera I don't know how good it is it's like you know it's it's a it's a phone or box it's not for developer purposes so there's not a whole lot to say there until we actually get to test the final hardware even even if I'm right this is the final hardware in an ugly shell it's not fair to like you know actually judge it because they're not calling it tile hardware and you know there might be tiny revisions between now and actually ship so well there and you know in terms of like developers like there aren't a whole lot of big names here I think biggest name here is probably Foursquare they got trotted up on stage but like Facebook is going to be on it twitter is going to be on it linkedin is going to be on it as far as i know all those apps are developed by rim not by those companies there'll be a bunch of gameloft games but there's not like you know they didn't promise Instagram they didn't promise skype they didn't promise hulu so there's there's a real big question of do they have those apps lined up and they just are waiting to announce them or are they just not going to have them right yeah actually I was just gonna say going through the device it will be real arias if room came back and introduced the london audio series and started telling us about how much and how much lights or it is than the current brick that is show notes people and it tried to pitch that as like this is how far we've come over the past five months we took this old chair we stuck this new owner it is so much better I mean listen the other thing is like you were saying deed to the brim is going to be trickling out announcements of features and things like that over the course of the next six months or however long it takes to you know release his first film released blackberry 10 so Facebook integer rap so good stuff out to having those at launch I would be more reassured if the rim announced to have an email app and I kind of the reprap at the launch add those are kind of important but also I'm seeing here one of our headline I says that the app submissions beginning october 10 so which is the tenth of the temp whether you're using the US calendar or the normal cuban calendar a kind of a nice little coincidence but video so that gives a lot of time in space for him and others to do a bit of development and get the platform up to speed so let's try me you know optimistic that's all we can really do ok opportunism indeed which is kind of the wrong guy to wrap up on yeah usually we end on rumors are always such a down note i mean i think i think is some respects this is a down note because being optimistic with britain is like the most futile thing in the mobile industry but oh no wait i have a realtor I know we can end on a samsung and TouchWiz and uh the dialer code yes you you have some experience with that right dieter yeah so I mean I haven't been following too closely other than good in here at the blackberry thing but I did help help test this so apparently touch with phones have a thing where you can dial in a code on the dialer and hit Send and I guess not offend and it will hard reset the phone erase everything and like it is actually relatively common on a lot of phones you can send commands via SMS and so someone figured out that you could send the command to open a dialer oh no it's not SMS you couldyou could send a command open the dialer via an iframe in web browser or just by clicking a link which is similar to an SMS vulnerability anyway the point is I've another link and I hardly set my song but it was really weird because it didn't happen right away it sat on the screen just a little bit and so I had to test it a couple of times and it doesn't seem like it's consistent across every Samsung device and I'm glad you said you you weren't seeing it on on your Galaxy s3 is that right right and not my own but one here in the UK and we tested that one to death and it just it it didn't affect the thing here and Athena's emerged days actually that this is a more widespread thing actually that we initially thought it doesn't seem to be touch with specific anymore which actually really helpful one I would like to clarify by making zero statements about such words like it's not a TouchWiz issue and your Samsung like your first job will be to come up to people and say this is not a touchless problem but it's a dialer issue and somebody's done some research into his looked into it they found the same vulnerability on other Android devices so it's not samsung exclusive it's not TouchWiz exclusive so shouldn't just bash something too hard um and apparently this isn't really theaters been identified and it's been patched but this is the problem here that is with passion some Android devices and not others so the galaxy s2 still needs a firmware update to get this fixed up some galaxy s free seems to be running the latest software which makes it invulnerable to this thing and some others like the does seem to be running potentially an older version of software again Samson's communication here has been really sucky to be honest um so we're not really perfectly clear on what exactly is going on but the best thing to say is that the very latest version of software I mean jellybean is Bernie copley and unaffected Galaxy Nexus devices are unaffected if you have the very latest version of whatever Android software your phone manufacturers make it available that would be your best way to avoid this the yellow thing is don't click links that you don't know we're going to lead you to oh don't don't do things that I send you to because I said that link to theater degree says phone is my phone I think that the answer is don't click link that you don't don't do it you can't ya type everything into the URL bar manually admittedly the seraphic if you click on links on your mobile phone and something's wrong like you should be using a mouse yes this is entirely the users fault this entirely out all right on that note I think I think that's a good a good wrap up for our mobile show this week would you say so bring it I would agree he's gonna yeah I I believe you did the intro so you do the outro there Vlad oh man i was asking that just so I could avoid living it oh yeah I know what uh let's see what are we supposed to say what is important like I'm saying there isn't that much important important information contained in the introduction when we know that everyone who's watching listening to the live stream the recording knows what they're getting ourselves in for and so really introducing it is kind of a an active vanity and the outro is another activity but let's do it so that's not me and the with it you can follow us on twitter dan is at DC ciphered equally or cifra pieces that background chris is at z power and I'm at a really mysterious place that you don't know also I'm try not to tweet so I'm not going to tell you where I am you are climbing into it so hopefully at least for a couple of days so if I can you know get in touch with my friends and my roots and shave at some point um you can email us at mug will show at the verge calm if that email hasn't changed and you could get in touch with us via our lovable of your website the virtual come where you can comment on this live recording post please do particularly with critiques about facial hair styles and other such things of imports and please take part in our forums we do that too and we love reading our readers feedback and thoughts so then we can you know rip them off and talk about something new in the next X weeks buh buh buh sure so until then alright thanks for watching guys