Gadgetory

I'm here in Seattle for the build show the developer conference from Microsoft it's cold rainy tired cranky and my back hurts but whatever man it's awesome we're gonna push through we got a ton of talk about it's gonna be exciting therefore you should stay tuned be happy there's all the show hi I'm dieter bohn hi I'm a Windows Phone fanboy i'm chris sigler this is a virgin rubble show it's episode number 23 for the week of October 29 2012 today the day we're recording is the well known internationally beloved holiday my father's birthday happy birthday dad I know you're not watching but there you go yay also toffee birthday dear dad is that why everybody's coming to knock on my door to celebrate theatres dad's birthday yeah and you know with holiday he he really missed a golden opportunity to troll me that to not tell me that Halloween existed and just make me believe that everybody was running around in costume for his birthday I wouldn't really smart wow that would have been good yeah I just like information for somebody to steal his identity yeah everybody knows his birthday anyway mr. bone dr. Bowen he is a doctor and so is my sister like everybody in my family has got doctorates except for me but you're this issue out of the family oh come on dieter is a doctor of mobile telephony he's got enough knowledge a geeky 'used doctorate ever we need to sell phones because as I said at the outset I'm cranky not really though I'm happy I'm happy because there is so much news to talk about and so many big announcements to talk about and I'm happy that Vlad is happy about your nose phone so it's finally here but now my little thing here I want to do a little impromptu demo ok tap and send on Windows Phones all right cuz i just said them up and they've got this got a couple of Windows phones here in my hands never got this crazy sound oh it's not crazy anymore oh there it is so I tapped a pair and that is happening but the sound is cool you know so say I haven't been able to tap and send anything between DC phones but the sound is cool so I've confirmed that um carry on cool demo bro dude the sound theory here you know what no you don't know that I'll do it too what's up we're all just gonna sit here and make noises no I'm not one of us um Chris huh I'm the only one here with after windows phone it's very exciting to me it really should be hey uh I'm gonna stop teasing people and I'm gonna show these two phones side by side and hopefully it's be useful oh no my face is visible oh no i've got by a volume turned off so you can't hear it okay anyway um yeah so Chris how is life without Olivia 920 I hate you glad I and I and you to dieter and and tom warren if you're listening right now i also hate you because all of these gentleman doesn't happen i need midol or not what tom warren does not have one yet knowledge no but he's with you or he was with ya he was he is he is currently at at the conference proper talking to developers and nerding it up about Microsoft and there's a lot turned up about to be honest yes let's get off without it I mean since I started off with this random exposition on windows phone and it steps and feature that lets kick off with Windows Phone 8 which mike so finally launched so yeah so they launched it in Seattle uh two days ago three days ago I've lost track of time and you know we've been waiting and waiting and waiting to find out what the big secret is why they wouldn't allow hardware manufacturers to show off the entire OS and so on and so forth we actually talked to them about that we talked to Joe Belfiore and his answer was you know we wanted to get the hardware manufacturers you know a chance to you know show off their wares talk about their their Hardware on their own timeline and we wanted to hold and have our own launch for windows phone 8 so it's not like there was a big conspiracy or mystery they just wanted to try and see how it went this time around I think it probably went okay for them I think that you know we obviously knew what was going on you know a long time ago but maybe general consumers didn't but you know in terms of like big huge new features it's sort of like nips and tucks in terms of like actual user experience that the really big big big feature in Windows Phone 8 is that it shares the same quote core with windows 8 which means that they'll be able to get a hardware updates out more quickly and they can support faster processors and bigger screen sizes and you know theoretically it should enable more cross-platform you know code and collaboration between Windows 8 Windows Phone 8 in the future for now briefly like and I'm just going to mention briefly you're right in terms of introducing brand new features there just launch event I think the only thing that Microsoft shota was the active lock screen where applications can take over the lock screen and they talked about the fact that Facebook can do it facebook application got Bing and they got a couple of other apps but yeah and and by the way as silly of a feature as that is I have to say I really like the Bing one cuz you know Bing as much as I kind of like vaguely dislike it as a search engine the one thing Bing does very well is its homepage and their photography the imagery that they use for their homepage and and if you turn on the Bing integration on what is funny home screen you get that daily Bing image automatically on the lock screen so you know it's kind of cool you turn on the phone you see new image every time and it's always a really cool photo yeah but the thing I was going to say is besides that against tita says it there weren't that many surprises but uh the thing that stood out for me actually is thinking about the weight of things built up because usually when a company bumps a deadline of bumps or release back to where the Microsoft has been doing I mean we knew as a fact that it was because the software wasn't ready but usually when a company is forced to do that at the end they release it and it's full of compromises full of holes there's bugs there's issues its laws etc now you guys go you know you go together and as a pair you did a thorough Windows Phone 8 review and I want us to get into that but the thing that stood out for me is that actually the stuff that is being shipped in these review devices the HTC windows phone 8x and Lumia 920 is really robust and solid so windows phone 8 might have things that still need to be refined and improved on but in terms of just reliability and just functioning and doing the things is supposed to do I'm impressed I microsoft hasn't added that much but the things that it has added all seem to work mostly yeah mostly the other there's one weird thing yeah go ahead yeah well yeah just gonna say that I think the single biggest annoyance for me I'm a few friends not many but a few who use windows messenger and if I'm talking to it's microsoft does not have their their windows messenger story as together as Apple does with I messages now with you know between mountain lion and iOS 6 because like if your assignment I signed on to windows messenger on a desktop machine and you also have your Windows Phone sitting next to you it is completely random which messages go to the phone and which messages go to the PC like it's it's completely like insane and unusable well now i'm using an official email and other pc chris i'm using adium well that Windows users is pigeon I mean it's the same code bases pigeon so yeah but I think it might be true face politics up yeah um I'm not sure if I works exactly like actually I really like the chat integration in the outlook com web site your website how the chat is just off to the right of your email but when I was doing that with facebook chat I think messages actually duplicated so yeah I think we're on to something either the message is duplicated or Agatha my phone and then I got others on the outlook site which is an idea you're right you can't be sure worried the next message is gonna come no it's great but I don't want to trade on the negatives there are a lot of good writing LC you know it does but like the thing that I was talking about is just the basic core you know it's like nothing is crashing for me nothing is freaking out well again nothing is kind of a maybe an overstatement maybe he things fe oddities my sprout up but I expected a mini disaster to be honest okay I just expected app crashes and issues and problems and this this feature will be forthcoming soon cetera cetera and that hasn't been ok so it's encouraging another very reasonable thing to say because you know as as few user-facing changes as there aren't windows phone 8 they actually did extricate the kernel of Windows Phone and replace it with a completely different kernel and it was basically a complete architecture of the system so able to say that you know we we review these devices and it the existing legacy apps worked fine and we didn't experience any like crazy crashes is pretty impressive in its own right DJ what what did you listen guys you guys watching I was watching cat I met the chatter that I've gmail who's down for some people assigned for me but um ya know all of my actually i should mention that i just noticed that all of my google services simultaneously crashed I don't have any access to anything right now which is interesting usually if that's a hurricane sandy situation oh maybe I might have to break out the podcast since I writing he's Isis about this well that that's all I what that's actually what happened during our google hangout we did a hangout and I'm sure that some of our listeners were listening in when we did a hangout on Monday to talk about the day's news cuz monday was a big day and we'll get into all that shortly but halfway through apple announced that scott forstall was leaving a hand and so with it was our listeners kind of got a live peek at advert editors freaking out at actual news breaking which was I'm sure enlightening for some view and confusing for others so yes if there is a massive Google services outage right now uh you heard it here first yes so I think because we've just confirmed it in the UK and in Chicago and in that seattle hotel room today we go that's Google back to Windows Phone I was gonna say that the most impressive thing speaking of services about Windows Phone for me is is the Sky Drive integration I know that there was a bunch of it in Windows Phone previous but this was the first time I really deeply used it and Microsoft has done and just an incredibly good job of making it feel a seamless and connected and you don't have to think about stuff when it sinks to SkyDrive and my favorite part about it and I think I mentioned this in the review is you know apples got iCloud and you know different apps can connect the iCloud but you know apples being so aggressive at hiding the file system that it's really hard to sort of be like you've got access to the stuff that gets saved in iCloud where was SkyDrive it's very transparent you know it saves a skydrive you go to your SkyDrive and there it is no problem yeah um Vlad actually pointed out that the the photo integration was really really good and you know so I hadn't even like realized that I you know I left it on because that was the default so I hadn't paid attention to it but I went and I started playing around with it and it was like it had been invisibly uploading my photos into a folder that I could get to just without me even thinking about it without me setting it up without anything and it was really impressive really amazing and as an option you can also disable the automatic uploads which I have to do because I'm so picky about my photos that I usually take about six versions of them and if every single one was uploaded to SkyDrive then me going SkyDrive will be just the most frustrating time in the world so many dudes um but but anyway yeah SkyDrive very much for my purposes again strictly just for my purposes can replace Dropbox um but for my purposes when using a mobile phone which I primarily use Dropbox on my mobile phone to take photos and share them around so I can access them on a computer I still prefer Dropbox for everything else which includes you know sharing things with colleagues sharing things with friends etc but the way to SkyDrive works is we just be saying it's really nice and also the new SkyDrive website which together with outlook.com got overhaul during the summer is really really nice like I I never go to Dropbox a cover i always do it I was manage things from my devices and but also when i'm on dropbox oh come on i feel like it's particularly great layout or anything like that works with SkyDrive is kind of a pleasure you know you can drag things around it's essentially a web app and it's nice um but the thing that actually stands out when we with SkyDrive is um I'm showing people sample photos from our reviews and I'm setting the skydrive pictures and I like whoa sky dried lake I haven't seen one of those and and I was gonna be one thing that Microsoft's gonna have to break through this I don't know prejudice or just expectation that it's not going to be as good as you know the leading services because as I say if you actually uploading photos to the cloud it's just at least as good as Dropbox speaking of Microsoft needing to break through and get people to take them legitimately in the smartphone space I want to talk about Internet Explorer 10 I am really really impressed with its speed and with how hell how well it handles web pages but I've had to switch it to full desktop mode because even though it's a fast web standards compliant browser most of the mobile web is built for WebKit it's built for Apple and it's built for Android browsers and you know anybody else uses webkit Chrome Safari you name it but of course uh IE is not based on webkit just like firefox is not based on webkit they've got their own rendering engine and google especially but there are a few other sites see this browser and they treat it like a second-class citizen they're like now we're going to give you our old mobile page that we coated in 2002 or whatever right like it it's like using IE 10 on google's web pages it it's the same experience as if you're using blazer on palm OS it's terrible um and that was that was kind of an outdated analogy I have to sedate her what one that they sent around the overworked down 2006 don't use any on Oda one on twists today and I go cold out by a bunch of people well I think it was a good one so I'm just gonna recite it saying that the Lumia 920 a nation of mine that's a spoiler eats it you can find it on Twitter it's a really ancient leaving 920 m be a related analogy that's so I'm gonna say yeah um very good as yours I can tell ie10 is a really good browser and it's just it can't get no respect and there's like that same exact thing of they need to get attention from outside of the Microsoft bubble and browser and people accepting SkyDrive is a first class citizen of the cloud of the web and apps you know Microsoft told us I think they've got 46 of the top 50 apps that they're targeting or something whatever that's great they need more of those top apps I know what's the number they hit 120,000 or something but the problem isn't number of apps because the numbers game is the numbers game the the problem is the quality of the apps and how well they're updated and Chris you actually made a really good point about this a while ago that like Bill they'll like tick the box off getting a nap and then a year later the app is still basically in the same state that it was and that hasn't been updated right yeah and I can I can think of a bunch of examples of that where you know they obviously you know paid or otherwise encouraged a top-tier developer to make a brand-name app for the platform or Microsoft just said screw we'll do it ourselves like they did Twitter and Facebook but but you know when they're good when they're reaching out these third-party developers to make their apps for work for Windows Phone I think they're just the other like you say dieter they're just taking the box to get it on windows phone and then it's kind of like set it and forget it and then you look back six months or a year later and the app is in the same state maybe it's gotten one update to fix like a critical bug but then meanwhile in iOS and Android they've been updated every you know two days it I the the running joke for a long time dieter I think you were you notice this as well said on Android are do for a while was being updated like it was a Spotify already or one of those tools are you updated every 25 minutes was ridiculous yeah for like a month or two um and you will you will not see that on Windows Phone that's for sure yeah what else do you want to say uh the the SmartGlass xbox stuff seems pretty cool i haven't played with it a ton chris you or you were messing around with that more often than i was yeah i mean it i went into it thinking okay this is gonna be a silly gimmick that you know i mean it'll be like cool whiz-bang feature that i'll never use but i could realistically see using smart glass as my full-time xbox control cuz i'm not really a gamer you know I don't have my xbox to play games like I bought Fez and it's going to take me five years to beat it but apart from Fez I basically just used it for watching movies and whatnot and so for that kind of stuff the the remote control that is in smart glass works great because it's basically a trackpad for the Xbox that's on your phone or tablet now long-term I don't necessarily see myself using smart glass on a windows phone but the cool thing about it is that Microsoft is going cross-platform with it they're launching clients for iOS for Android and of course for Windows Phone and for windows 8 so but yeah it works very well my only complaint with it is that it never thought that it was on the same network as the xbox I don't know why because they were on the same network and when that happens my first thought was okay this is kind of crazy cool that I can control my xbox from anywhere in the world basically because they don't have to be on the same network but the downside of that is that it disables the SmartGlass browser and the keyboard but you can't for some reason so you can't type with it and you also can't use it to browse websites using your phone projected onto the xbox and I was never able to solve that problem I tried a budget I enough cellular data I like like I have three different Wi-Fi networks in my house I tried all three but you know it was on the same subnet as my expects the whole time what the deal was but strictly as a remote control it's it's awesome like regardless of whether you're using an android phone and android tablet an iphone and ipad whatever get smart glass if you have an xbox for sure so internal launch hardware I mean we should just get into it like there's there's a bunch of phones we saw the 822 coming to verizon and it's just like whatever t-mobile's got the 820 i forget what t-mobile's is they attend all these like mid tier nokia lumia devices they're all basically like iterations on the same thing it's a big chunky phone there's the t VES from samsung which basically feels like you know we got a hands-on with it finally it basically feels like a like a galaxy s2 it's like a plasticky Windows Phone it's super light assume that's so crazy s2 I would say maybe s3 it's like a little less three I guess it's not quite as big deal it to me because I seem to recall the big sales pitch from Samsung being that it had aluminum excuse me aluminium construction it's training you're like right and I'm playing around with it I took off his back cover its classic thin plastic from Samsung and extremely flexible and you know I'm kind of poking at it I'm touching it from every angle I'm like I don't feel any metal here well it it pretty much is a galaxy s free running Windows Phone which you know probably some people would love but it's kind of in the woman right so we spoke to HTC at this launch event and they explicitly said we want to stop having our windows phones basically be repackaged android phones and the first phone that we're doing that with we're designing it as a windows phone from start to finish was the 8x and of the two you know there's to basically hero launch devices for windows phone 8 the 8x and the nokia 920 the Lumia 920 and we have already we have reviewed the 8x and Vlad is is it fair to say that you are smitten is it fair to say that that maybe or you're so deeply in love that if you were walking in up here you wouldn't you wouldn't notice if you walked out the end you just keep going and walking on yeah just holding both of them up like a salesman and I just feel ready good doing that um I'm trying to be useful to the people who are actually watching the show but then holding them up like that is kind of starts feel like an infomercial and yeah i mean i really like the 8x and i'm not alone um Aaron phoneDog what's their name Baker Baker that's right I just had two swords twitter handle somebody retweeted him and you saying the same thing that has got the edx on his desk and he just kind of randomly picking it up and playing with it and you know touching it and looking at it it still phone we're talking about here and keep in mind out of the gutter I mean I just think it's really nice a design phone and these are this is something that you said first and I've echoed a bunch of times it seems to really flow very well with the ethos and the aesthetic of Windows Phone in general right because to me windows phone 8 is the maturation of the windows for an idea I would windows phone 7 and just the square tiles which didn't have the size flexibility it wasn't there but now that you can resize the tiles I mean I've seen some of the PR people who are showing of these phones and there was some ridiculously nice patterns built into their home screens just by having you knows square one another one a tiny tile and you know they just arrange them in to really kick it as peasants um but yeah it's all kind of minimalist and stripped down and kind of modest in terms of you know it doesn't take up all the space that there's no skeuomorphism the sole extra chrome and all of that junk and we're just following a kind of involves that in a really nice way from windows phone 7 and you know frankly if this phone was just running with his phone 7 I would be like well that's a great design with a sucky OS but I feel like that there are so many little tweaks and um I mean maybe the home screen change seems more than it is in practice that's the way that I feel like in practice it just gives so much more flexibility so I'm excited by the airwaves like I feel it's fresh and it's different and even though there's a massive massive gap where the app ecosystem should be is it just to somebody like myself and you guys it just really new and fresh and I just need to explore it and I just want to explore I need to and and just the design of the EDX is brilliant and it just feels so good in the hand and is so ultra matte when I was saying it has some economic issues like as a 4.4 you scream but it's exactly as tall as the Lumia and 20 which is a 4.5 inch screen but I'm the difference when you hold in the two in your hand is crazy I edicts just makes everything else who's so fat now can I can I provide a counterpoint to absolutely everything we just said blood okay yes so so first of all and and if any HTC employees are listening right now I apologize in advance because I'm gonna sound a little cranky and I know and I want to emphasize that my views on this phone are not shared by pretty much anyone else on this team and I also think that my negative views may have been influenced by the fact that I was set a sense of black one when everyone at HTC knows very well that I like colors so I want to know I want to know who at HTC is trolling me and why I got one right here Chris it's very blue I know I know you have a second I believe me and it has a it's empty logo on the bottom it's healthy I'd known that oh you're just trolling me ah but looks oh so i will say a few things about the 8x1 the phone is too square it's annoyingly square so it no matter where you're holding it no matter where you're holding it up or down along the edge of the phone yet one of the the corners is always digging into your hand it doesn't roll across the hand nicely as most phones do even squarish phones like the iphone are rounded enough at the coroner so that it isn't annoying but that the the 8x is square enough so that it does dig into your hand that's for the first problem too it's a the soft touch is so soft touchy that I just got an email from Jeff at HTC saying yes HTC employees are listening aah Jeff I'm sorry for what I'm doing to the 8x right now but I'm gonna continue um now that I know that I'm on a stage the the back of the phone is a little too rough so it I had I wouldn't call it difficulty but it was like a it was a little bit tougher to like put it into and pull it out of my pocket than I would normally expect with the phone even a soft touch phone and then third and somebody else made this observation to I can't remember whose you dieter or Josh but i agree someone was pointing out that despite how thin it is for some strange reason it feels thicker than it actually is yeah it does it's weird yeah yeah and and so I guess those are my three big ones with the design don't get me wrong like it yes it was very good mr. really you missed the real complaint about the designer there's only one genuine complained that i have about the design and that's the power button which is on the top and I'm used to step in being on the side but it's sort of it's easier to hit from the front then on the back which makes no sense and like I'm constantly missing it I'm constantly like having to press in and like push harder than I ought to get it you know if you're gonna have this nice you know angled thing on the back you should be able to sort of just tap on that that ridge on the back to get it but instead you've got like reach all the way up there and push down on it it's sin is really going that's Christ you only do complain Appert over the pass free minister everything else is just a crazy girl riffing and I'm gonna say but it is the bit is so soft touchy that I can't pull it out of my pocket it's a free room it's like it's like it's basically an adhesive back like I could probably a stick it to the outside my pants and it would just stay there like it's really adhesive but but yeah the power button is completely flush and and Vlad I think you pointed this out as well the position of the power button relative to the volume buttons is such that it's very difficult for some strange reason I found myself constantly pressing the power button and accidentally triggering the volume so I'd be with you know jack the volume up or down one point you're on the 30-point scale that they use now that that's true that's true and it happened to me the first day or so but the other thing I would say is I'm adapting and and I'll give you I'll give you the point about the edge as well it does dig into your palm a little bit but then you just kind of adapt your grip a little bit and I don't want to sound like Steve Jobs I don't want to be like you're holding it wrong chris fix your grip but I'm just saying you you kind of adapt in these things fade into the background like that they don't stop being an issue I spoke with HTC people and and I was saying to them you need a sign my own power button because everybody else is doing it and it just makes so much more sense like Nokia LG Samsung everybody's melting on the side apart from apple and that's where the power button really belongs particularly on this really talk phones because there is no way that you can use any phone with a 4.5 inch screen or above or even the 8x with one hand and not have to readjust your grip to reach it up and then come back down to the capacitive keys to the very bottom where is it if the power button is on the side then you've got no problem but but still you know go ahead Chris whence when Samsung first started doing the side power buttons I was like this is the dumbest thing ever and I now kind of don't like it when a phone's power button isn't on the side especially to your point glad if it's like 45 inches are above like I get really annoyed if it's not on the side yeah just yet the other thing I was gonna say a blue out of my mind ya know it was the fact that a made no secret I've got a 920 here with me and i can tell you he ate eggs in spite of its flaws that we just discussed is the phone I keep turning to like I just wanna you know it is the one I prefer I mean does the other thing is I'm very open to the fact that a bunch of people might prefer the Libya also something else but the 8x just kind of really appeals to me and that's basically the instr and i don't i don't think i'm alone i think it's a really well-designed phone I also think thing that you mentioned about HC not just taking its Android designs over the windows phone or even flipping around just you know posing designs between operating system is a good thing because one of these designers they need to be paid they need to have jobs and they need to do something fresh enough to keep us interested I think the EDX is totally one of those devices yes I will agree with you on that as as many complaints as i have about specific design points on the 8x i do uh you know i have to give it to HTC for making something that is very notably different from their android line and that's something that you know i think that they are very cognizant cognizant of the fact they fought in the 7.5 world you know if you look at like the titan to from a distance especially an average consumer walking into a store I think the assumption would be that that's an Android device until you get close and and realized that it's it's not running Android just a quick update here on a breaking news story about google apps they seem too bad byeeeee first of all they're back so that was like a little blip but also somebody someone tweeted at us saying Google App sets a crash at the wrong time just as I meant to receive my bootloader unlocked from HTC dev the thing that I was safe to that person is that he's being way too optimistic I registered to get a bootloader unlock and to get my well to get an account started on HC dev and took them about three months and I need to get in touch with somebody for them to sort that out so don't worry about it you haven't got tht seat Evan buck stuff happening in Eva I'm pretty sure um but it shall we android now do you want to speak yeah I was just gonna say the the big crazy news in addition to windows phone is android we have got the nexus for the nexus 10 the nexus 7 HR 32 gigabyte plus mobile whatever and android 4.2 we went to google's campus we got a deep dive on google now we got a very close look at the phones and the tablet and uh it all got announced despite hurricane sandy and I mean I don't even know where to start there's it's you know the nexus 4 is based on the optimus G as we expected it's that looks like a LG version of the galaxy nexus it's got glass on the front on the back it's got wireless charging which I'm going to have a little freaked out about later and it's got android 4.2 it's crazy fast it looks really really good it's remarkable how much better it feels than any of the optimus G variants that I've held I've held the sprint one the 1881 and the the international one and it's it's markedly better it feels way better than all of them the way that they they did the rim with the soft touch plastic that just barely goes over the glass so it's less likely to scratch when you set it on a table Matthias convinced me that like they got into the design i mean the next program is funny because you know they work with other manufacturers and as you go this is just a rebranded geo this is just a rebranded galaxy s2 or whatever it is but the amount of design work that went into especially the nexus 4 makes it feel like a completely different phone and i desperately love it I desperately want to make it my next phone but I'm desperately unhappy about the lack of LTE which is something we really need to talk about yeah maybe we put that up and you guys want I'm wondering what you guys in general impression of the nexus 4 was from what you've seen chris i absolutely i mean it's very from a since I should I should qualify this I haven't touched the phone I haven't seen it in person but from a distance judging from the pictures and the impressions that that the josh posted everything that I know about the device it seems like exactly the upgrade from last year's Galaxy Nexus that Google needed to put out there and I'm cautiously optimistic at this point that LG a company that I don't associate with great hardware is going to pull off this phone in a way that everybody's happy with but yeah the dream killer I mean there's zero question that if this phone had LTE that it would be my next phone there's absolutely no question and I think that that that sentiment is echoed by several people on our staff get it um but the it's a dream killer I mean I can especially in Chicago where att's HSPA network is completely worthless and continues to be it's just not feasible for me to use an HSPA only device okay I can't do it so okay I mean let's just get into it though to go ahead lab sorry but I mean I was gonna say a quick Chrissy's point is fair enough you can't the you know if you're stuck without alt you're stuck but as the International member of the show I have to UM give voice to all the crazy people who have freaked out a price because google is selling this phone unlocked so it doesn't have LTE which is a major issue in the United States but most of the rest of the world is not and selling this unlocked and I understand is 279 pounds in the UK it's two night as crazy rest of the I forget is it this this is it a 16 gig version that's 299 I think it starts at eight is it a tiara yeah it's just ridiculously cheap for a phone of this caliber to be trying that straight up without a contract yet 299 for 8 and 3 19 / 16 if you're on t-mobile in the US this is the phone to buy because especially since t mobile charges more 18 and Verizon do for equivalent devices subsidized I I think t-mobile has several phones that are 299 or more on contract you can get this phone off contract and then you can go under one of their value plans that are actually lower per month because you're not taking a subsidy it's a no-brainer yeah okay dammit that person with who is expecting the AC dev email got it so I was completely wrong I'm a troll I'm a terrible troll and I apologize um well but I mean to that point like you guys have this 199 price point in the US and it's kind of nice and straight forward like you can't on contract pricing the UK is like a fool's errand to try and keep track of it's ridiculous like you can get this phone if you pay 50 pounds in advance and it will give you 60 pounds cash back and then you to sign up for two years and after two years we get to name your first child etc etc it's a mess right but the thing with the 199 on contract price is that ultimately if you don't get some sort of random amnesty from AT&T or Verizon or whatever or you don't upgrade before the contract expires in order to use and enjoy the phone with your service you paying a lot of thousands of dollars by the end of the full contract whereas with this new Nexus 4 you're getting a top SPECT Android device I could vouch for the specs and the experience at the optimus G I was using the what basically a is korean version the international version of the optimus G just before this deluge of windows phone 8 devices to cover my life and I was really enjoying it like as far as I was concerned the optimus G is like the nicest Android that we've got going on at about woods I mean maybe the nicest camera necessarily but I was really enjoying the user experience even LG skin and I'm not but yeah the nexus for being stuck in all of this I mean the nexus 4 is yeah it's stacked on good things and it's cheap compared compared to prima Terra figure so the LTE thing again mighty big deal in the u.s. it's not going to get in his way so I'm going to stand its way and as far as Android taken over the rest of the world I don't think I'm the price point is just the crazy thing that's the real stand-up thank me yeah so in terms of it not having LTE like we we talk to Google a lot about this and it basically it comes down to a few issues one I mean there's the battery life issue which i think is a red herring because we've seen plenty of other companies handle this and so Google wants the Nexus program to be sort of like pure Google and like like morally pure ethically I don't even know what exists what the right word is for but they want to push their software updates out without carrier intervention and without having to wait for that and basically the they didn't feel like they could do that if they released a version with LTE because if you're going to release a version with LTE on verizon you've gotta release it's got to have CDMA and if it's on cdma or LTE under eyes and verizon gets to you know that your software updates what's interesting is that on AT&T we talked to AT&T about this and they're like whatever would bring it on lock bone to our LT network totally cool we have zero problem with that and you know so why didn't they maybe we assume it's economics that you know there's just not a big enough addressable market on AT&T LTE to make it worth it for them to create the device i guess but basically we talked about this in the Hangout that my feeling is like apples pulled this off because apple is able to do it google apparently isn't they don't have the clout in the mobile space with this nexus line of phones to demand software updates without carrier intervention and so they had two choices they could stick with the purity of the nexus program or they could get their hands dirty with the carriers either to force through the update issue or to accept the delay and they just decided not to get their hands dirty yeah Rana Klee and Dida I think that you you made this point earlier in the week I know if we were talking or if you said in a post or something but ironically if Android was a closed system that they had kept themselves and developed over the years I think that they would have the same level of clout and Apple in this situation they'd be able to throw that way to run but because Android is open carriers are like who cares about this nexus will go tell motorola or algae or whomever that we want these ridiculous changes to the software and we'll get it exactly our way and we won't have to deal with you and goodbye yeah and I mean you know it got ATT he's got the optimus G Sam so what did verizon get the they got the something from LG that's like not the optimus G but it's pretty good it's a spectrum to or something the Connecticut and I mystical I think it's the it's the optimist nitro achieve max HD oh that one I remember that one you know if you'd only had 11 for your name I might have forgotten about it because it has so many over no problem yes Tommy when I was thinking okay you know what I'm just gonna use the optimus G on AT&T that's I'll just accept that but then you can't uninstall 18 tease junk and that's insane that you were supposed to like Google reneged on that promise that you'd be able to uninstall stuff after I screams out you can't unsolved up and that's not okay windows phone there's a whole bunch of AT&T junk on an AT&T phone no problem just uninstalled gone gone gone gone not not an issue at all um yeah so like I don't know what I'm gonna do am I gonna go with the Lumia 920 am I gonna go with DiNapoli's G am I going to suck it up and not have LTE it's hard for me not to get LTE because i use it for tethering all the time when you know it's one of my things I need for work another thing I was gonna mention guys is a boot building up the argument for going without LTE if we're going with tmobile mobo t mobile mobile is apparently what Lisa's my understanding team over had the best reception during the hurricane in New York like it stayed up the best out of all the networks am I correct in this I think that's the thing that our colleagues were saying yeah yeah might be our goals are not chartered I have bad signal so yeah Kimber lives I believe Kimber lives in New Jersey Kimber if you're listening and you don't live in New Jersey I apologize but whatever Kimber was she had tmobile go down I mean it's not a neighborhood by neighborhood basis would have actually I will talk about this little bit more later but that is part of the reason why I t-mobile is sharing their network with with uh with AT&T through this disaster because I think that some networks are having better luck in some neighborhoods than others and vice versa so it kind of works out okay fine that wasn't a great argument for me I guess but still I mean if you wanna help out the underdog like if I'm in the US I would work really hard to get on sprint or to get on tmobile just to undermine the oligopoly happening or even the duopoly happening up top you know do my level thing so that our children can have a choice of work at right aging against the machine is a fool's game uh in the US wireless business I mean you're only hurting yourself it's like you know I look I mean t-mobile is is great and I love what t-mobile's trying to do they have a very very pro-consumer policy largely because they have to because they're the underdog but at the end of the day I want LTE and Josh made this point in our hangout on monday i think that is the difference is not insignificant in many parts of the of the country right like we're not talking about five verses 7 megabits debt we're talking about like um Oh 20 megabits down versus two or three and two deters point like when you're using the phone for work and you're using it for tethering and that's something that you need to be able to rely on that makes a big difference not to mention the latency difference yeah so we're gonna have let me imagine bring us back to Nexus 4 for a moment because I I am really hesitant about the gioca the geo class stuff hey I've heard all the arguments about yes his gossamer on his last bag blue protective glass really well blah blah i am not i'm not a fan of that like I would need to again I'm kind of like Chris and so far as i've only seen the pictures in the videos of it I haven't seen it in person yet but I would be really surprised to see a phone with glass on both the front and the back and you know for it not to lose some durability some endurance for it not to be more fragile than one that is made out of plastic or metal I mean how do you guys feel about that tzu I know the iphone four for us I never should I never shattered the back or the front on the four for us so apparently uh early it's not a problem for me i doesn't it doesn't give me pause yeah neither did I and actually have to be honest i'm actually back on an iphone 5 for the moment um and i would actually prefer like as good as the phone looks and as good as the aluminum looks i would prefer the glass of the 4 4 s because i don't care about drop durability I care about set it on a table and it doesn't get a like micro scratches durability and that's something that I can't like I always have to make sure to set the iphone 5 down on a like a soft surface like if I'm setting it on a table I set it on a book or a magazine or some I don't set it on the table itself cuz I know that we lifted up and find some micro scratches that's something that you don't worry about with class so i would i would much prefer that a phone be durable to that and not be able to survive a six foot fall than vice versa and i'm just imagining right now how you facilitate all of these soft surfaces and i'm thinking cuz you didn't tell us when you complain but the 8x and how it how to paint to take out of your trousers you didn't tell us whether they were silk but it made out of silk cuz it was that the issue it's so true silk trousers first of all I I have to tell you that there's no such thing as trousers in America or in other freedom-loving countries we call them pants hats yeah but other people call pants underwear a rather they go on the web pants what no underpants yeah yeah that stuff there's it there's a difference between pants and Underpants also we could we could call in pantaloons others like Pat the lowest branch would open yeah we could yeah we were believe the image the composite image that I'm getting from this podcast today is that Chris is this out of going love silk wear and gentlemen who has this little you know silk okay but he lays out on a table every time used to put down his iphone yes he's like we give my people micros cripes I'm pulling my iphone 5 out of my silk pantaloons and setting it on a silk handkerchief on my table that's right that is exactly the image that I'm getting that's that's it you think you figured out the true are you the Scarlet Pimpernel yes yes yes I irises versus he he is Chris oh my god could we talk about android 4.2 I think it's a really nice a pip update for android day they just added a whole bunch of like I don't know random features but they did some good stuff so I miracast I guess is interesting maybe I gotta swipe typing gesture typing they've got a quick settings so you can swipe down from twice or there's a button in the notification area to toggle quick settings what am I forgetting there's the photosphere thing you know that's fine for Adorama stuff oh the lockscreen improvements I think that's really interesting so you can swipe left or right to get two different widgets or to go straight to the camera even if you have a password on it finally and then of course you know we did this deep dive on on all the stuff they've added to Google now that makes it just you know be able to do more it can read your inbox now and can give you hotel and flight package information from stuff that was emailed to you and this is an Android 4.2 thing but we got really deep into their voice search stuff and how how well they are able to recognize voice based on their neural network which actually apply to the iphone too because the voice search app for iOS just got released and it's amazing anyway uh you know I it doesn't look like it's as crazy big as either ice cream sandwich or jelly bean in terms of all my gosh I must have all these features but you know I want it and I am looking forward to spending the next 18 months complaining about waiting for updates to 4.2 from every single manufacturer on the planet mu Z so can I be the first project that the galaxy note 2 will get its 4.2 update roughly three months after key lime pie comes out on the next Nexus phone that's my prediction and and the key lime pie being the thing the thing that comes out to 4.2 right as for going to sue jellybean technically in Cooper's rollin but but detail I mean I'm intrigued now there's a couple of questions here so Google now can now read your inbox you said how first of all how does that integrate into the whole set of information at guna presents you and secondly and I know that Chris like myself still hasn't gotten into using google now on a regular basis so and can you give us the fresh sales piezo now known update the the email features actually they have been trialing these email features on google search on the desktop or you know you could sign up for the trial and basically it does it doesn't happen on your phone it happens in Google's cloud and it just you know it every time you get an email Google now Google reads it and if it sees something in a certain set of categories a hotel reservations flight reservations package tracking I think like event tickets and concert tickets takes that information and it puts it into you know Google mouths database of things that knows about you and then when you land in a city or your flights coming up or your you know use time for you to leave to go to the concert or whatever the next time you check google now it you know a card for that piece of information will just be there and then you'll be able to use it to get to where you're going so like you land in the new city you pull out your phone you check google mouth and the first card oh look at that there's there's my hotel I don't have to looking into my email for it's just sitting there and that really fits in with you know you guys say you haven't like made Google now part of your life and like that's okay like I don't think anybody should try and completely depend on google pal yet but it's sort of one of these things where you know every now and then it like pushes a piece of information in front of you that's like oh man I needed that that's great thank you and so it just feels very serendipitous but it's not like a utility it's just sort of a nice like oh hey now I you know I know I need to leave to get home in time or oh you know this is the weather or oh my you know baseball team lost or you know whatever it's but what's interesting about Google now is that Google has got all the pieces to enable this futuristic vision of computing and they're like moving in that direction slowly like series of personal assistant but Google now actually knows the stuff about you that you want a personal assistant to know like it's able to check your email like first launceston by right of course you could opt out of all these me though the issue for me is that as soon as google introduced now and made it just kind of too ubiquitous for for a thing exactly as you're describing i think i totally agree that you can't necessarily rely on it can't be your personal organizer it can be a helpful assistant and a sidekick I guess but then Jung google now just way too easy to access and accidentally we've talked about it I'm previous shows and Google is kind of pushing on to people where's again I and it's too much agreement for podcast be honest we need to do something we would have an idea this morning uh yeah and we've completely failed or like we're gonna fight fun and then we just agreed with each other it was great funct it uh well it's it's too much respect man it's we need to I don't know um stop disrespecting each other start rolling each other each other a bit more but anyway em like I say I agree with you in so far as Google is building towards his vision I guess you remember I missing out one of the Google fellows he did a talk in london and he was saying google's uh kind of you know its ultimate goal the pinnacle of where it's going is to do search without search this is what google now is building towards it's not there yet it's not great but that's what Google wants to be that's what Google wants to evolve into and I find that an admirable goal and I think that would be an exponential useful things to people even if it makes us dumber and it kind of builds into that Wally scenario where we're just kind of being rolled around on autonomous cars that know everything we need to do and we just kind of a bovine about the whole situation but ok so you now forgot what it was oh yes you did you say ovine bovine yes so you're saying that people become cows because of google no it's a Oh gonna give up I best bugs are you wanted her old man yeah ok it's Nietzsche Nietzsche was a guy who's saying that well he used to bovine to describe just people who don't have you know the interest or the mental Adam who just really calm and impassive about the world around them uh you know just bovine you're like a cow bull is is milking people I'm sorry continue I point man let me make my point and it will get back to the troll let's see that but but yeah the point I was gonna make is Bruce Miller brought us up and it's a great point there's no setting where you can just punch in a few quick settings for yourself and get going right so if he if Ross wants scores for his favorite sports team he can't just jump in and say this my favorite sports team start feeding me the scores I want to know about their performance in the playoffs assuming that make the playoffs he needs to go and check for those schools like three or four times and then Google now will wise up and say yeah this guy cares about this team made the connection so yes it's making these connections and I know if you go to particular locations a bunch of times it will ask you does this location maths to you this is where your dealer is is this where you do whatever you need to do etc and then you format and it builds all of this information but the point is you get no control over you don't get to customize it you know to kill two kingdoms yeah the you can customize the sports teams but you're over your larger point is is actually completely correct that there's this tension where if they add a whole bunch of customization options then it becomes a huge mess of settings right and they're trying to do this thing where it organically learns about you and then organically gives you the abbey of information you need and you know it's a design decision and it's you know it's a compromise one way or the other and they decided to make the decision to have fewer settings for stuff and it frustrates me so even in 4.2 you can't tell it that I don't need you to give me an alert for calendar a B and C I only needed for calendar de NF i'm subscribed to a half a dozen calendars and i don't care that Vlad has a meeting I care that i have a meeting but Google now shows you your next appointment and it thinks my next appointment is Vlad's meeting and that's really frustrating but that said it's like I said it's it's one of these things where like you just sort of check it to see what's going on and you can't you never get the sense that like if you by looking at it you feel like you comprehensively have everything that you need but you do often check it and you get something that you forgot that you need if that makes sense it doesn't give you everything you need but it often gives you something you forgot you need yeah it does it does and I haven't put hump which was I forgot about the check the time change because the UK is back on gmt now whereas the United States isn't keeping in step so the difference between myself and you guys is an hour less right and that's why I go closer cussing that's what we're discussing Archimedes Jude for the podcast because I had one I had literally a Eureka moment where i was i was in the bathtub sharing an intimate moment with the ax and then i realized that actually the podcast isn't starting in an hour and 10 minutes is starting in 10 minutes and then rushed over here I'm actually quite fortunate to have got show oh yeah yeah there's a dozen google now sorry what and cook some Google now yeah well I mean you know so I haven't played a 4.2 yet so I can't contribute to intelligently to this conversation other than to say that like I I you know hey well these are the original updates should be rolling out to 4.1 are they gonna be rolling out to decipher 5 i'm using right now because if not then the night I so well with that um but yeah you know I I have so far found google now to be creepier than it is useful and not not creepy to the point where I want to turn it off but just I'm am I was looking at it and saying you know it's really weird that it thinks that I need to go home now uh and and you know that's something it that might be a generational shift where it's like you know 20 30 years from now people are gonna be like well of course my phone is going to just tell me what to do all day but right now it's just a little too strange for me just like the self trivia does that's what about being bovine like you told me but that's my point about being bovine because maybe sheep like maybe that's more appropriate way you're just happy to be instructed and led along right arch our children will be Milt by google in ways that we are not yes like domesticated mammals yes we're on the same page now baby but we're on it okay well I think audio listeners of the show aren't getting the benefit of seeing the expression on my face right now but trust that that moment of silence was my complete abdication of responsibility for the previous two minutes of conversation what does in say is that we can probably leave the nexus 10 discussion for the verge cast and anybody else who cares about tablets uh anything to say I will say it is it is really not it is it is the best android tablet a 10 inch android tablet barna but I've ever held but you know it's still kind of change or tablet so right um they've got some work to do and I'm just gonna v2 it optimal podcast dammit because we talked about the Galaxy Note already which is tablet uh you know getting 10-inch tablets on hit doesn't matter okay the charges are still must be like I don't know maybe we gotta talk about the charging orb I'm all hopped up so Matthias showed us the charging orb it is a third of a sphere cheered off at an angle and then you set the phone on it and it connects with magnets and the magnets align the phone and that inductively charges it looks like a touchstone it looks like a you know a curvy sphere of a touchstone it operates exactly like a touchstone it aligns with magnets and and in android 4.2 there is a new feature called the dreamscape dreamland dreamy time I forget what the what the exact thing is that they called it during the dream time anyway it um it's the same thing as this thing that was called Exhibition Mode and webos where as soon as you set it on the dock it would present you with like you know some kind of screen saver like a wallpaper or a time it's dangerous that's what it's called or uh you know whatever and you know eventually you know they opened it up sold third parties get out of widgets to it and so on and i'm sure that google do the same thing so like it's it's completely hilarious how much of this the whole ethos of their wireless charging solution just came straight out of palm and I don't know it's any mistake that you know matias came from palm and then that's what happened but now he's good tea it's like there are a lot of X palm people at Google right now a lot and you know I gotta say that I prefer the way that they're handling the charging solution with magnets to what everybody else is doing with the with chi or charging it's a cheap a solution because the magnets really do make a difference in terms of knowing that it's connected and it's charging and and but it's aligned properly and in the right spot it really does matter for lining it up the thing I was gonna say about this wireless charges is that I would just love it if we could standardize I mean I love it when we standardize on anything but even micro USB micro sims which did not see them but whatever um no but it was just just nice nice how that who is a again powermat who's a competing standard tucci just formed yet another consorte thing I think the Alliance for wireless power ok the Mooka just ignore them dance but but starbucks and google are backing it the power management that's what it's yeah so why is Google backing this competing standard that's putting charges into starbucks just to see what happens while they're using a different standard on their flagship phone also why does children starbucks doesn't make as much sense is the thing that i was gonna proposes my reason for caring which is having one of those freaking things on my desk because it if you just sit down and think about how often you just sit down and you pop your phone on your desk if there's a wireless charger under it there then you just stop worrying about the phone's battery you just do like you come to even if you in the office for 30 minutes you just pop down your phone underwater charge do you work leave and you're pretty much fully recharged again these things are freaking convenient but again if they're done right like you were just saying so if Google is doing it and it's using Chi and Qi is the thing that verizon's been pushing verizon is extra you know covers that you can buy with qi charging for most of these phones nowadays just keep going with it I don't care if it's not perfect I just I mean it works right it's functional I ask you just no reason why you know any other standard should be pursued we need to just you know push kee on everybody and then it would be just such a beautiful world I agree and and you know the other thing is think about all the people that have multiple phones and all the families that could just you know you can stick like a few of these charges around the house and everybody can just drop their phones off on to them by that I mean these are healthy things I won't work yeah yeah i love i love that like you know this dream world that you are you know describing is a dream world that i lived in for you know four years when i was using my boys phones almost exclusively i had you know touchstone in my car i had it on my desk i had up a bed i had it by desk at the office and just you know just wherever I went just set it down so that you know all the pre phones had ridiculously bad battery life but it didn't bother me that much because I was always topping it off that's how everything should be Chris's animal what Chris is doing what is getting up I I'm know I'm taking in this this fascinating conversation about wireless charging I have demoted myself from participant to listener for this portion of the conversation I I will I so I will say this I agree completely Vlad that like you know there are many things we're competing standards as frustrating as they can be are actually to the benefit of everyone at the end of the day but i don't think that wireless charging is one of those things because you're going to end up with like a world where no you you know you go into this coffee shop and it's this standard you going to another coffee shop and it's this standard your phone might work and might not is like who's who's losing out by there being just one dominant standard I dancers nobody right that's it I'm sure it's a licensing thing is it's got to be that like somebody you know whether it's well first of all powermat probably has an ego coming into this because you know they say they're ever yeah they're like well screw Chi we're going to do this ourselves and they're they're they're just entrenched enough like they have just enough momentum to gum up the works which is exactly what they're doing now well what I was just thinking is hopefully Jeff is still with us hopefully those HD employees are still watching us on their massive cinema screen in the Taipei offices so they can register this down for us wireless charging guys I mean you're doing it already Dax tom warren Bryce he managed to get the screen that hey Dex and verizon's gonna have wireless charging the which actually I'm pissed off about because the one in Europe doesn't I suspect I mean we don't know for sure but it won't surprise me if that was for eyes and saying you know if you want to sell this phone on our network and needs to support wireless charging because they've been I mean bright glad you mentioned it earlier verizon has been very strict about that ever since their first LTE phones came out they've been like you know if you want to sell this LT phone our network you need to either have cheap built in or you need to offer a chi accessory which that I think with very very few exceptions they continue to do we obviously the iphone 5 does not have a chi back but but apart from that I think pretty much every LT phone they sell can be SPECT with a chi back yeah and from what some walk from the admission Tongo the change is going to be built right into the 8x so we'll make it an e bulky will make it a different it won't be an accessory just right in there right yeah I'm coming over guys I'm gonna enjoy the EDX without T and Verizon boo Chicago this is the attack this is the technology nexus of the United States a lot of people don't realize that yet but but there's a lot of momentum here and and the real icing on the cake will be the news that vlad savov is moving here and not quite yet but soon you know one thing so as soon as somebody doesn't perfect phone and only release it in the US then i'll be oh okay deal but then it was a quick like you to it cuz you like what we rolled out i want to i want to point out the we've got a really excellent feature about the ad 0 phone the phone that's made out of bamboo and if you haven't you should go take a look at it it's it's a just an incredible story Aaron did a really really good job putting it together and then we you know we want to end on a happy note so let's let's talk about the UK getting LTE you're on yeah there's nothing like that yeah let's talk about that and the first thing to say is I don't have it it's not because I don't have a review phone II very kindly provided me with a phone and a 4g sim but at home I can only get three and a half g I mean admittedly i'd be in this remember all these windows phone so i haven't had time to you know do a little tour of london with it but at least at home all i can get it's very hot g and it's actually slower then I get on the free network so that I think that is going to be the killer CEO for this whole II 4G roller here in the UK most of the spectrum is on high frequency and the Achilles here was going to be that it's just not going to be good at penetrating through walls and that might well be the cakes I mean it might be the case that I step outside and oh hello i have 4g but i don't know i i'm always like okay if you have really fast connectivity but i can only use it when i'm on the street that just really limits the benefit of it because when I want to have a really fast connection I'm usually working and I don't want to be out in the rain or the snow or the win the World freaking hurricane to have some sort of connectivity so I think maybe next week i can give you guys some legit Lafitte back on the network the thing that we know is it super fast I mean it reaches speeds up to 30 30 max down probably because nobody's using it and it's in 10 UK cities now so I mean look give credit to the company for doing the roll out the way promised it would do it it's working really hard it's getting things up and running really quickly so at least in terms of execution is doing well but I'm still dubious about proposition also we got pricing I think few days back maybe we go and nobody's been particularly impressed with it it's been quite steep so I don't know um and obviously LTE isn't the same sort of killer must have feature that is for you guys in the US and I'm personally content to wait for Vodafone and 0 2 and 3 particular because 3 is usually the network that gives you the most and puts the fewest limitations on it you know Vodafone will try and censor out of websites 02 will try and sell your data ok I'm being kind of libelous right now but yeah I would had a bit of a privacy issue few months back whereas free can adjust as when we say unlimited data would mean unlimited data and you can go crazy so it's my favorite camera is the one that I use so I want to see those guys get a hold of the 800 megahertz band and give you the real high quality 4g then I'll be like okay you can / price as though is because then I need it but for a moment meds kind of you'll complain about the lack of LTE on the nexus 4 just like us yeah yeah although by that time we're gonna be talking about some cortex a15 madness put nexus sure and we're gonna be talking about lte-advanced cuz someone's gonna launch lte-advanced and then everyone else will be upset that they only have regular LTE yeah if that happens in the US just as soon as we get LTE in the UK i'm going to scream it's goodbye man i think AT&T and verizon are saying 2014 for their LTE advanced launch i think so okay i should be able to get ahold of some LT before then i'm pretty confident i think my fingers are got it for you thank you sir I mean yes it's good news it is good news and and the other thing is all of these early adopters who pick up this LT stuff they're bringing up their networks for the rest of us did bring up the 3g networks so it's actually trickle down economics theoretically you're right and and I was hoping that that effect would kick in in Chicago to alleviate the stress on the HSPA network when the iphone 5 came out i haven't seen it yet like I still in the middle of a business day if I go out with the galaxy exes into the heart of the city I can't do anything I can't browse to to a website i can't check my email so i hope you're right i hope that eventually that transition happens but it hasn't happened yet and you call in this city the technological nexus of the u.s. sounds like a technological black hole man that's those are fighting words you and I onew causation we were trying to ruffle the freaking podcast yeah well I'm time I'm calling X time we call time we see each other okay now the next time was each other yes please finish it I was just gonna say next time we see each other wet which is probably gonna be de esas you and I are definitely gonna have a Donnybrook the I want full show thank you everybody for watching listening if you want to follow us on Twitter you should we're all at verge I'm at backline Vlad's I bad lads have off chris is on facebook I guess so just go find him there because whatever we'll be back next week and uh hopefully the inital dan seifert will join us he's DC Seaford on Twitter a lot of follow him bye everybody thanks guys Oh