Gadgetory

hello logo to the verge melville show this is the virtual show for the week of December 17 2012 there's been a remarkable amount of app news to talk about so we're going to jump in I think really really really fast my name is dieter bohn i'm dan seifert and i'm chris sigler and i'm still using a nexus 4 wait years when did you get that thing was it like connecting it was like a week week and a half ago yeah it's a review unit from google and i know you guys tease that I had lots and lots of thoughts and feelings about it but yes I listen to the show and you've expressed most of my thoughts and feelings I'm totally nervous about dropping it all the time but on that I will say that I dropped mine at least two or three times a day and actually the chamfered edge gentle- all scratched up now but it's not cracked not correct no I've not yet Craig the screen I appreciate how you called it the chamfered edge it's like you bought you bought Matisse's phrase my pine and sinker he's running with it I creation oh he took that from Apple oh I totally took that from Apple ya know it's it that only did they take the glass design from Apple they took using the word chamfer all over the place from Apple used to be in you know maybe they took via the glass from Apple but the um you know the pattern on the back is very unique to this device you have to give it that yeah it looks it looks really great when it's going to spider cracks too yeah I the first Nexus 4 i had i dropped unfortunately but it did not crack just like you Dan I just busted up the edge and I am also using a review unit right now and this one I have not dropped and as far as Google is concerned I will never drop it if if I if I do I will not tell Google yeah it's fast I'm and so data speed not being an LTE like that's hard but AT&T is better in San Francisco on HSPA then I remembered it being before I made the switch to LTE phones like I'm getting like seven down yeah it's like that it's like that where I live in the suburbs but in New York City like Manhattan it's definitely still bad right if you guys had like random quits random crashes random reboots no but my nexus 7 does all the freaking time like twice a day with 4.2 it randomly reboots I don't think I had anything on on the latest patch I don't think I've had any big problems there was a pretty significant problem with the first build like you know when you got the device like you would immediately get an update and and that first patch was the one that I was having trouble with were like um there were a lot of apps where like you you tap on a text field the keyboard would come up and then like you know you'd be able to tap on the keyboard but nothing would show up in the text field and then you would discover that that was happening in every app and then the only solution was to reboot the device if that was a pain in the butt I haven't seen that happen on the latest patch that's a good sign yeah so I mean you know i wish i had more feelings that you guys hadn't already said but I mean it's if you don't need LTE it's kind of a no-brainer like it's so but but define so define don't need LTE because I think that's a very like you know that's becoming an increasingly important question to answer and it depends on a lot of factors where you fit well if you live in a place where you don't have LTE for example or if so here's my conundrum is like I'm actually most of the time in a place where I have Wi-Fi like mm large percentage of the time so it's really not killing me but the problem is when I'm not I kind of unhappy if I tappa to hit the dead zone or I'm oh I need it I need it and so for coming up on CES right and I am positive i'm going to desperately want LTE at CES i'm not a percent positive your HSE a possible it won't work anyway so right and hopefully the LT will we'll see what happens this year but so like i'm going to need to switch away from the nexus 4 and week or so because I can't be like used to using that phone and then switch right for CES I need to have a phone that I know is rock solid and LTE and I'm thinking that it's going to end up being an iphone 4 55 then that's that's true dieter but keep in mind that this year for the first time at CES there will be tens of them tens of thousands of people walking around with lte-enabled iPhones right but I mean what can I do I'm not going to switch to verizon for CES well no what I'm saying is that we might actually have crossed that that at that point where HSPA utilization is now on the decline and you're actually gonna be able to send a text message this year at CES unlike previous years now now to be fair I've every LTE smartphone that's currently on the market is still using UMTS for for voice and texting anyway but you know that the real problem is the data utilization and and I and you know a lot more will be offloaded l to eat this year than in years past well if you run into a problem with LTE you can just go in turn off LTE and you can use hspa+ assuming that's working that's true that's true um in years past I've had very little luck turning off HSPA and using edge yeah I was always kind of hoping that that would be my my fallback but very rarely does that actually work and I think the problem might be the back hall in that case where it's you know is it right regardless of what spectrum you're connecting to on the back end you're still going through the same pipe and that gets clogged but I don't know I don't know how much our listeners care about the BC intricacies of us gaap RCS experience maybe they do I don't know I think they care about having four score data and Apple maps ah so I have many feelings about this oh ok well let's hear them so if you didn't hear the the rumor has gone out and wall street journal reported that Eddy Cue the savior of all things that happen to be broken at Apple over the years is talking to foursquare to possibly include foursquare locate data and the maps and that would supplement Yelp and you'll notice it on the off-chance you happen to accidentally open Apple maps instead of google maps on iOS right yeah so my problem with force I use foursquare pretty religiously actually um not because I want other people to see where I am yes sir because because I know it's not because of the badges even it's because I'm like having i like i like having i like having a record of where I've been how many times have been in different places and it's kind of the most convenient way to do that and you know keeping track like what airports I've been to what cities I've been to one in airships do you have yes how many mayorships I have what I'm asking you know don't pretend like you don't know if the top your head no I I just lost one so i think i'm down to two now let me I I remember the days when I had like 15 or more concurrent mayorships back in like one thousand eight or 2009 before everyone discovered Foursquare and oldest more phone in their pocket and now I might have like two or three tops and I can never hold on to them I have a hold on i'm looking my stats oh my god i have to Mayor ships I bet you have zero but I don't use it as religiously as you because I'm not obsessed with getting badges I i know i have the super mayor badge from when i had like 10 or more how do you find how many mayorships you have from the stats menu if you go into to me and then stats I've got badges you got 21 badges I have way more than that I don't have there's no stats menu here I'm on a android phone I'm what bogus version of the app you're using I have 39 badges which still isn't that many actually um the seaway totally not interesting yeah I don't know yeah what are you what are your feelings about maps uh so so here's my problem with that I do enjoy Foursquare and I use a pretty religiously but it is still very much a problem today that no matter where you are in the city and this I mean Chicago but I'm sure this holds true for pretty much every major city and you get a lot of like bogus uh p 0 is just you know random things that people create it because it's free for all right and it's it's less protected yelp has that problem too right I mean we talked about what's-his-name the pot dealer few weeks ago yeah but but I think the problem is ten times worse with Foursquare because the barrier to entry for creating a bogus pui is much much lower and what that you know normally I would say well who cares like if you create a bogus Pia why I don't you know doesn't have any effect on me but it does because then when I go to an area of the city that has a bunch of legitimate POS around me want to check into one of them your bogus p oh I gets mixed into that list along with the real one so I need to sort of sift through it and I try to be pretty good about flagging bogus venues but I don't know how quickly force where it gets its around to actually curating those know how many people are flagging as aggressively as I do so this is a major problem for Apple right or anyone else who wants to take four square dance seriously they're gonna need to just apply you know some top-level level filters of you know it's got to have a certain number of check-ins or something in order to be legit maybe probably I don't know I don't know about that because it could just be whichever one of the wrong locations or inaccurate locations got popular first and then everyone checks into that and everything yeah and so unless someone is like manually going in and editing them like Foursquare has these super users that can edit location data and make sure that the address is correct the phone numbers can all that jazz unless someone's going in and doing that for every single one ah I don't know it's it's the whole problem of crowd-sourced data that's inaccurate crowdsource dated like Google Maps has crowd-sourced data that based on your actual gps location of your phone which you can't really like spoof for altered but for squares not that way right when you're adding a location right so i think that that on the whole d values I you know I'm sure that four squares database has immense monetary value to a variety of institutions and no one more so than Apple right now because they're in desperate need of a reasonable yeah base map in pio pio I database but that well so it has the thing like your concern about the data not being accurate I'm sure that these negotiations are like we're going to need to be able to mess with your data however we want in order to make sure that we don't have more problems because I mean four squares got an API I've gotten SDK like theoretically Apple could just go in and start using it so like they clearly need more access to go in there and mess with stuff right and they're there there's probably I mean I you know I don't know the details of the terms of service for using four squares API but there are probably some limits on how commercial you can you can take it and and or how heavily you can use it like I know that with some of Google services there's a trigger where if you go beyond a certain number of hits per day or per week or per month or whatever it is then you need to start paying per per use and and it could very well be that four squared is structured the same way i'm not sure but but regardless you know i'm sure i'm sure that database has monetary but monetary values the question is how much is it devalued by the bogus p lies and what can Apple do about it to your point dieter you know like what kind of you know crazy algorithm can they develop to make it cleaner I don't know but but they need to do something I still believe and I know we've talked about this in weeks past I still believe that matched has significantly improved since launch since iOS 6 launch and that's that's purely as you know like just got check like you know my feeling just casually using the app I don't have any empirical data to back that up but it feels like it's getting better and then of course there's the 800 pound gorilla in the room which is google maps yeah which makes this entire conversation perhaps moot movie yeah I'm and I love google maps on the iphone i think it's great did you guys talking about it last week I don't remember no it was before the launch yes well we should so Google Maps that's a much thing I guess we could talk about it assume that that was last week yet no um it's great uh I think that there's some issues with it not them not being like immediately intuitive and like there's a little bit of tapping and swiping and whatever but once you get past that and they've got a couple prompts when you first launch the app to do that for you it's great it's super fast and 10 minutes 10 million people agree with you crandall eight is the download yeah yeah that's right ten million in 48 no just in the first 48 hours so right right yeah anymore since then and if you go to a penny and look at you know the top downloads by country I think it's in the top app in like 48 countries top free app and like then the top five and like the rest of they are they offer the maps app in there are some countries where they don't have all the transit data and stuff yet so some people are yelling at me a Twitter about that but I mean whatever its if you've got it it's good and it's really nice to have that transit data back on an iphone as i've been using transit I've been using hopstop i've been using I have a whole folder full of mass transit apps and I hate them all I hate them all alive they're more like terrible my navigate folder that's got 10 apps in it right yeah like it's it's great finally moved it to my second suite like Oh hopstop razzi pro transit CD transit embark I bar caltrain and then I've deleted like like eight others that I'd gave up on already nice they're the worst like it's like it's like I need to rename this folder like like broken broken dreams dreams sorrows it's like it's almost like I'm turning into Dan with weather apps that's really yeah yeah dan what is it with you in weather apps I was nobody how many weather apps are installed on your main phone right now um well my i seeso iOS 6 made me really happy because i can now have more than 12 icons in a folder I forget to feed my weather app obsession so I've got 15 on my iphone right now and think i have four or five on my android phone right so what you're saying that the built-in weather app in iOS is not it doesn't meet all your comprehensive weather needs because they said your comprehensive app it not only does that it also is really ugly so I have this like obsession with finding this like the perfectly designed weather app that gives me all the information and data I want and need well need uh and but still looks beautiful at the same time and so I'm constantly spending money on weather apps I think if i budgeted how much I spent on weather apps in a year it would be really embarrassing to find out put it would put my kids through college or something ah but yeah I mean and I'm never satisfied so and the thing is like I use like multiple at the same time because I never trust one of them I'll open up one it'll say it's 42 degrees out and I'll rain in the next hour then I'm like well now he must be lying so I open up another one to double check well you need to start saving up your money dan because a company called dual just released a Bluetooth adsb receiver for iOS which allows you to download like real-time FAA like radar like you know like Noah radar to your iPhone well designed for aircraft not for you but you've yeah if you always been so it just meets it's gonna be really ugly I'm not gonna like it is a huge ugly gray box that you need to pair to the phone so it's probably not worth your time this came up and chat but I want to mention here yeah I guess you can have it launched google maps from Serie if you add by transit or via transit to the end of your Siri query although well chris welch said that it worked intermittently for him i haven't tried it yet but there's that so you can get to it from Syria i I don't know maybe I'm turning into a Google services fanboy and we're going to get to that a minute but man google search is just faster and better on the iphone google maps is better you know has more comprehensive data gmail is better than a for gmail stuff anyways and apples built in stuff and like I've got like I've got this like little mini like Google world on my iphone now like my whole screen is got three google things I believe yet gmail and think of Google Maps it really torpedoes the notion you know I mean people would obviously naturally like to believe that Google has it out for all phone platforms mobile platforms that aren't Android but I think this you know good this this latest release really torpedoes that notion and and tells you it you know it gets back to the core of Google's business model which is spreading and services as far and wide as possibly can but maybe not there's there is the windows phone situation which we should talk talk about shortly I'm going to take a moment here to see if I can so uh you know with this to your point Chris about how everyone says out of head that Google attack is not concerned about other mobile platforms except for android just yesterday this app for YouTube called YouTube uh-uh what is it called no I totally blanking on it right now Oh capture youtube youtube capture right you capture yeah which allows you to upload videos directly from your iphone to youtube is being launched on iOS first and which google says it's coming to android and they will be released on android at some point but the fact that it's being launched on iOS first in google went through the effort of getting it through the app store and approved and stuff like that before launching it for android just goes to show how much and how important iOS is to google yeah yeah it's not important enough to continue to offer exchange activesync protocol support to iphone users yeah but but that's I mean that's it's a secondary thing for iOS I mean that you know we will all hold a funeral for the death of push but at the end of the day this this doesn't have as significant and impact on iOS users because done Windows Phone users yeah it simply because they can get something like push although true push from the gmail app you can get notified but you can't get push and it is really convenient to just even if you don't have connectivity to know that you can go into your email app and do some email right and so I don't know like I'm thinking I might be on my iPhone I might set it up to just sink every 30 minutes and not alert me just so I've got it there in case I need it um instead of having a not sink at all which is why I've got it set up now and then use gmail from push alerts but it is it's a nice thing and so if you don't know gmail has their google has is pulling support for activesync exchange to sync contacts calendar and email from its services and this primarily they're still going to leave it there for professional Google Apps users but so it affects consumers but it's going to hurt the iphone and it's going to hurt a big one and tom has written a great piece on a Windows Phone and what kills me about this is like the Microsoft not ruin Microsoft's you know basically said there was there their quote were surprised yeah II yeah they were surprised by the mid Microsoft was only one no surprise with right yeah somebody a Microsoft is not doing their job if they were genuinely surprised I mean they really had read the photographing this for Google have been telegraphing this for at least three or four months if not longer yeah i mean like one of the reasons we wrote that whole like ecosystem wars piece was because we saw this coming I mean I i was talking to Kevin Mitchell I from crackberry com at the last blackberry world like a few months ago like he saw it coming um Google is presumably paying millions probably millions of dollars to Microsoft and licensing fees for exchange activesync you would think that like whoever like has that contract and manage that relationship might give them a heads up that maybe something's gonna change the near future yeah maybe like it's insane how could they not be ready for this I mean the PlayBook is ready for this right rim was ready for this I mean even to even webos works well is still going to work just fine because it's using like the straight gmail sync protocols and CalDAV and it does imap idle for push like webos will do native gmail and google services better than Windows Phone starting on january thirtieth or whatever it is they're killing like that's insane oh that's that yeah that is extremely depressing to hear that the pre yeah I mean in although it's a really fix for Microsoft to correct it they just have to pump out caldav and carport you're right you're right Dan you're right do I throw it into you know their regular updates that they've been pushing out from windows phone 7 and well they've got a couple out for Windows money but like we're 7.8 like what's the story oh yeah well yeah so much yeah that's one concern I have is that it's going to take a while to get this update out they're gonna have to pass it through all the carriers obviously there's I don't think there's any way they can get it done by the january deadline but what I'm worried about is that Microsoft is going to mistake this as an opportunity to just say well no we're not going to play ball and push everybody into outlook and and you know the remainder you know SkyDrive etc etc um which I mean I'm not to knock these services they're good products but you're alienating a huge contention of people who really don't have the time or energy or desire to move out of the Google ecosystem myself included but who want to try windows shown so that they I don't have the luxury of doing that right and to be clear Jadakiss asus in the chat is so as Google just gonna make a gmail app for Windows home no they said we're not really planning on doing anything for windows phone we're not really interested like that's hot right that's harsh right and so um Tom Warren you know Mike top guys like you know if you think about it android is really like competitive with Windows Phone almost more than it is with with iOS because it's the same business model right it's you know get the OEMs on board convince the carrier's to work with you allow some customization ah like the whole reason android even exists if you go back and look at the testimony from that oracle court case i think it was was they were afraid of windows mobile back of the day right so it kind of makes sense that they're just not gonna help Windows Phone become a second ecosystem at all or third ecosystem at all because you know why should they they are they've already lost you know they're not going to get rid of iOS they they're they're not going to like get those numbers way down really quickly so they might as well play on that but like I don't split see incentive for them to be on Windows own right or rim or you know whoever me go forget the what's the name of the Allah oh Allah Ya Ya Ya it bums me out because I was you know it's just starting to I I've been testing a illuminate 22 this week and I it has made me appreciate its give you a sneak preview of my review it has made me appreciate the 8x much more than i had and i love this i knew i knew when you were like guys to say 22 is the best like yeah talk to you a week you'll see how you I have some thoughts which you will read interview but no I you know I I would seriously especially after seeing the yellow and red a texts in person which are like super awesome and hot colors yeah I would strongly consider having another goat Windows Phone 8 perhaps after this this next update comes out that fixes a few issues but this this is a total deal breaker I know that that is an overused term but in this case it's not an exaggeration it is a complete deal breaker if they don't implement def and allow me to sync my google services with the device I just I I can't I can't move over to an all Microsoft stack especially since it becomes much more difficult to then go back to other devices which all inevitably have to do yeah it's a crappy situation and again like I said before I think there's a 0% chance then Microsoft even if they work through the holidays uh get the the you know the updates squared away they can't push it through all the OEMs and carriers in time for this deadline i think it just doesn't work that quickly I yeah I don't think I'll say they just they just they'd like they need to fix it and if they don't like they're going to their you know people still use i think is yahoo's still more popular to sell more users than than gmail worldwide i don't think so i think gmail surpassed it in gmail is finally surpass it yeah like it's it's a big important service and it's a big important service of amongst people that you know you need to get liking your platform and like it they just got to make it happen and the fact that they didn't see it coming is there either straight applying for some you know strange PR play or that's the only explanation that can make any sense that they're like no we don't know what's going on so this summer gmail past 425 million users to be number one past hotmail so yeah that's that contingent that could be ignored people always tell me you know whenever I complain about something gmail related I always get a bunch of tweets saying you know what everybody uses gmail and I'm like that may be true but but guess what a lot of people do this is not a group of people that can be readily ignored when you're trying to build a platform yeah so I guess we should we're probably going to let Neil I get into this in depth in the verge cast but we should at least touch on this drama about instagrams terms of service you know you've got I mean we talked about until Twitter's grab filters and now Instagram Facebook owns them is updated the Terms of Service and everybody's freaking out they're going to sell your pictures and then they're going to put ads on them baba and what's weird to me is that the backlash against what are relatively innocuous and unsurprising terms I mean they're not great but I don't know that they actually go all that much further any further than I would have expected from facebook own company but the base a I strongly agree yes I totally agree with you and be people need to stop flattering themselves your your pictures aren't good enough for Instagram to sell them like does it just stop the illusion that that your your pictures are you know were taken by God himself and Instagram is now going to sell them on the open market I think what really blew me away here was uh the vast majority of people i know that use Instagram have public profiles I know it's possible to make them private but most people don't most we will have a public profile and I'm seeing all these tweets that are like oh I'm going to be really careful posting pictures of my kids and posting like my house and stuff and I'm like you had no problems posting it to a public service before and now all of a sudden this sentence changes it now you're you have no you're gonna have taken issue with posting a picture of your kid to a public internet service which I find to be very amusing at least yeah so if there's one part of me kinda wants the drama to continue and get worse because part of me is still rooting for Flickr to come back and like they just released their new iOS app it's pretty good and the thing that is underappreciated about Flickr is for years for a decade they have had really clear well established Creative Commons licenses that you can apply to your photos like as you upload them and so you could say these are the rules for this picture and it's right there on the site was right there in the picture all the time and that's great I would really like to see flickr come back as a photo service because it does a much better job of archiving and you know keeping your photos and searching and so on like the yeah we know that flickr has is way behind the times but if they could if marissa meyer at yahoo is doing anything other than walking into the flickr division and throwing money and resources at them then I don't even know what to say because there's a huge opportunity there why does nobody ever talk about the cop I like picasa casa sucks what why tell me why it's picasa is the google wave of photo services now if there's nothing wavy about it it's it's just straight forward as you can you know its way about it nobody uses it nobody cares oh yeah but-but-but photo photo archival and like if I need to drop a link to somebody to like show them a picture or if I need to like upload and store my photos in the cloud I don't need a service that everybody uses I just need a service that works and witnesses would like to have some sort of social element built into that but picasa is integrated well first of all it has Google+ integration second of all I just thought that was how do I take you off of the hangs like I have the power how do I let us just let us say no and and secondly a picasa is integrated into android so you can go into gallery and upload a photo straight to picasa from there don't care so I really think that I know there's been a bit of talk about this and I think there's been some rumors or whatever about how different services could be applied here but a Dropbox seems like the perfect service to me because I already have a ton of storage for dropbox my phones all automatically upload all of my photos to dropbox so if i wanted to share it with somebody very quickly and easily i can do that but the only problem is right now everything goes into this crazy camera uploads folder which is disorganized and a mess unless you are writing a script to organize it which I think I know someone who actually did that but if Dropbox saw the opportunity where it's got users that have 50 gigabytes 75 gigabytes or 100 gigabytes of storage and it was offered some sort of organizational system where you could directly upload your photos into specific folders automatically and things like that I think it would be great like that's exactly what it sounds like you're using picasa for Chris it's just drop boxes yeah wait are ubiquitous yeah so I just had a dream I mean I know that I think because Jagran were doing farvel is talking about Dropbox again then that Apple should have bought them back when the back of the day when they tried or they were considering it or something I don't know imagine if Yahoo about Dropbox why am i all pro yahoo today I don't know but like that would be like that would show that they're like smart and they get it and they're back and like integrating job dropbox flickr in some way I don't know be on board Sam why um so I'm a total flickr amateur can somebody explain to me why everyone in the world has a flickr pro account so i used to have a flickr pro account and i needed to like actually yours and you needed to get back to your old photos and to like up there was a cap so back in the day like storage wasn't free unlimited and easy to get and so they needed to have a cap on the number of photos you know the amount of space you could take up and so it's just sort of a legacy from that but if you let your pro and slaps apparently so like say i think that the the free account has a limit of something like 200 photos and like four sets or whatever and if you let your if you make a pro account and you upload all these extra photos and create all these other sets and you let it lapse you can't access more than 200 of your photos unless you renew your pro account and then somehow download all your photos to your heart well at least it doesn't like just get rid of them it could be without it just holds them for you it holds him ransom until you renew your froat you guys uh you know actually I'm holding out for text America to come back you guys ever used text America like before flicker I can't say like share photos yeah yeah it was you was uploading pictures from my um my treo 600 on this thing and you know there were like literally like 200 x 300 and that i could post him on to my weblog time your livejournal yeah i'm not i'm i'm reading up on text America right now it was an amazing service and like nobody like I was like you guys this is awesome they're like okay whatever and now you know the same kind of idea has turned into you know some like get bought four billion dollars was oozing that that text America next text America is the friendster of photos that's what you're saying goodbye it's like what it coulda shoulda it's like the live journal of photo sharing yeah yeah oh yeah hit the Dead Pool on December first 2007 wow that died early yeah tragic ah what other app news I mean there's just been a ton like snapchat added video facebook is rumored to launch a snapchat thing so you can send self-destructing pictures and videos to people you mentioned that youtube capture thing facebook is native on android now which i'm really happy about because it was so terrible before and then facebook is apparently going to try again with nearby which is based on gowalla right or like it's like the people that work on gowalla when i was a show yeah I believe the integrated the team if not the technology when they bought go all of ya so you know are they going to make break that up into a separate app how many like we've got a bunch of apps from Google we've got a bunch of apps now from facebook it's like it's not enough just to have like a popular app you need to start trying to take over the whole screen right yeah I can totally envision a world you know five or ten years from now we're facebook basically resembles google in almost every way with with deep search with you know not just across people but across the entire internet and then all these other services that like you save you are broken out on your device they're all going that way apple's going that way and so i think it's going to be it's going to be a very challenging environment for google and ways that they're not accustomed to being challenged the other jennifer mercat is all up in your your junk chris about not understanding flickr crow that's awesome i'm at picasa man i don't know what to tell you so there was even rumors that facebook could be going for for google's bread and butter in advertising rightfully the purchase of microsoft's whatever it was called which is an ad plan at displaying platform just like Edwards so and they were going to move to no that was amazon that was going to move to a bidding model which also goes off that that's another thing entirely let's look hardware yeah so the HTC m7 4.7 inches 468 PPI since five hope since five is like you don't make sense we're just not doing it anymore this is called sense 5 it looks like it's right for point to any any manufacturer that doesn't do a 4k sub 5 inch display and 13 is dead to me like 4k or die I enough of this 1080p garbage I've moved on well we've got the Sony you go uh uh coming over 81 great game maybe now I hope that's the the retail name or Xperia you got I guess it would be so and then so I think what we can expect is like Sony's probably going to show their stuff at CES and then HTC is going to show their stuff at Mobile World Congress and then Samsung is going to be later in the year again because we we know that the s4 is not it's not definitely not going to be CES I'm betting it that's not going to be overlooked Congress again I'm hoping that Samsung brings a sequel to the Galaxy Beam to mwc their showstopper at mwc last year so well they just announced the grand which is a 5 inch device but its mid-range so welcome to a world where giant android phones can be kinda sucky galaxy grand is is another winner of a name I think we're not gonna be able to escape 5-inch devices next year it's just gonna be like every single manufacturers gonna have them between um you know HTC has already got as Samsung's already's got it samsung is moving it down market there's this rumor there's this rumor of a six point three inch on a note 3 galaxy note 3 yeah which kind of has some some credence it's not salad at this point but there's some credibility to it so that's scary dreams like that like the note 2 i I think both of you guys have had played with a note to this file right guys it's it I can just barely like it you want to handle it like a like a phone but you have to realistically you have to handle it like a tablet otherwise you're going to drop it and at 6.3 there's there will be no getting around it even if you like i said my post last week about this rumor even if you took the current chassis of the note 2 and extended the screen out to the very edge you'd only be at something like five point seven five point eight inches and that's assuming they can completely eliminate the bezel like on the the razr m yeah so they're they're gonna they're gonna have to expand the size of the chassis any way you slice it and that's that's a very scary thought it's a vid this is that's a frightening thought well just as you just think about all of the phone like that's the one when this thing comes out of it's this big we're just it's a small tablet just leering says I gotta be that'll be in that thing though it'll be four thousand billion our minimum yeah uh well HTC is not gonna make a big screen windows phone speaking of big screens I mean that makes sense but it's a bummer like the whole point of Windows Phone 8 was we were supposed to let manufacturers go crazy and weird specs how many Titan tues do you think they sold oh my god I mean well they sold enough Titan ones to make a Titan to know and I mean and it's all it's all relative I guess right because HTC hasn't released like a 4.5 or 4.7 inch Windows Phone 8 but no keys got a 4.5 inch one and yeah you know Samsung's is how big is the samsung Display 4.6 or 4.7 or 4.8 something like that so yeah I think hmm what would you say about nokia oh I was like Nokia's got the 4.5 inch 920 yeah and then the the the the atty VES display i think is sourced from the galaxy s3 round society 4.8 inch so right at e speaking of speaking of the ax t VES where it's out somebody in her for somebody in our forms has one in the US or in Europe I don't know I just saw I think Tom said they went on sale in the UK for like half a second and they sold like two of them and we're like we're out of stock as I know you're trying to get one I want an atty vests Oh as it's difficult to get that's the thing i want it if l1 Chris it's like it's like a crappy galaxy s2 is what it feels like ouch the galaxy s2 yeah it feels like a crappy GS 20 interesting we don't I Sam but like what do you think Samsung's motivation is for like half assing a single windows windows phone 8 device I don't know you know what it was a samsung really wants to be on you know in with Windows RT for convertibles and tablets and stuff like that I bet Microsoft was like yeah well you gotta throw us a bone with Windows Phone 8 yeah no that's exactly what happened and in my instance I was like okay packaging ship yeah we'll put our b-team on that right away yeah yeah and you know how Samsung like it you know Samsung can you know if they put their mind to it they can probably turn around a new phone from quote-unquote scratch and probably like 10 days well it's its parts bin right like this is the GI model from the 90s when like GM buick pontiac yeah and everyone else like they all had the same car with like a different badge of this is the the the what is what was that car called uh the cake are no the Cadillac Sumerian of what I've never heard of this exactly the Catholic some errand was the Cadillac version of the Cavalier in the eighties you are lying to me cannot revenge i would i would engage Chris on this to be good my my my mother has to work for GM for 45 years I know a thing or two about GM vehicles which which Cavaliers were they rebadge about see one yeah cuz I own like three of those so so you know what this really reminds me of is if you're familiar with the pontiac solstice which is literally a sports car for Pontiac that GM went and dug into its parts bins and was like we're using a suspension from this an engine from this and like you know interior from this and then we're just going to wrap a slightly new shell around it and that's that's exactly what the Solstice was and that's that's what like the a-team feels like yeah I just I just I just dropped a link to the Samiran in our hangout chat by the way which I don't have open how many chats so many chats put it in the postman then we head out at some errand I don't know how you pronounce that's tomorrow it's gotta be soon Ron no it would have to be 2 m's to be cimarron or two I don't know I'm not good with English language but you can see what I'm talking about it's a cavalier anyway uh yeah this is such a dumpster fire of a car oh my no it is it it's one of the this is the car that literally destroyed you like GM's path to destruction started with this vehicle and it culminated and I'm going bankrupt but up but so anyway the t VES i think is the kid like samara knows oh my god this is hideous well yeah okay um so yeah I the only reason i will be buying an atty best is because it's hard to find not because actually how much will you pay to import it that's the question yeah no one not a penny more than 800 that is where I draw the line was so let's talk about the nexus 4 and the supply issues there they're putting the blame squarely on LG yeah but then he took the the Google+ post down didn't he oh did he yeah I think he did so this google guy posted he basically is like I'm totally sorry that we suck at shipping Google pluses or Nexus force wow they suck a ship is 20 what does that come from peter hasn't woken up yet if you notice we're a little bit earlier than than usual so that hour and a half no but you are absolutely right they do suck at at shipping google+ statement yeah I don't know if the comments still there not any way I mean yeah so it's LG's fault for not being able to get it to them the supplies to the manufacturer are scarce and erratic like that's pretty damning yeah I'm totally not surprised by it but I mean that's just it just makes it worse not only our supply is scarce and erratic but like Google can't get their storefront together like we've been complaining about over and over again yeah they have no idea how to run a retail yes supply chain its retail 101 I mean especially since the hardest part with retail is customer service right you're face-to-face dealing with the customer and Google barely has to do that because people just click by and they have to deal with a problem after the fact if it happens and like the simple part is making sure that you have enough of Product X 2 cells and customers and telling the customer whether you have it or don't have it it's not right I mean at this point I don't even know that the nexus program is for they can't sell devices they don't push it they're not trying to be really serious about getting big volume with it they say that they want it to be no show to showcase what the best of what Android can be but every single Nexus device is just some slightly repackaged version of an android phone that's already out there from another OEM it's like it's nerved its nerved in some tragic way galaxy with the Galaxy Nexus it was to the camera yeah with the nexus 4 obviously it's LTE what will it be with it with the next one so probably it's like what's like the only thing I can think of why the Nexus program even exists is they're like well we need some harp some modern hardware to develop stock Android on because that's what we do so we'll have somebody give us something we can put stock Android on and well what the hell we've already got to make five thousand of them for Google employees we might as well make a hundred thousand because screw it again that's that's what the Nexus is it's like yeah it's it's a quick round off retail strip yeah it's a playground for the android stock android developers because like where else do you see stock android except for on the nexus devices you don't exactly so yeah as tragic as it is maybe we'll start to see it more with motorola beginning in 2013 maybe with motorola but we won't from HTC we recently uh Jeff one of our guys out in Japan interviewed one of HTC's design directors and he pretty much flatly said that sense is the way that we're going yeah yep and hey I mean you know I give them credit for you know developing a plan and sticking to it I do not give them credit for being able to make a UX that is that doesn't make you want to throw the phone at the wall I mean I and I get you know a lot of people love sense or at the very least tolerate it you know I know a lot of people a lot of normals with HTC devices and they you know they've just come to understand expect that this is how their phone works so the fact that you know the craving experience that can be comprehended by normal people is is good I guess yeah but there's nice bits but it's just like I at this point I can't get over the feeling that like there's something slow here and there design aesthetic and like sort of big big huge gradient buttons doesn't help with that either so I think the problem is that all of us know what stock Android is really like and how much better it is and how much more intuitive and nicer looking and faster the person going into the average phone sort it doesn't because they never see it because it's only on Nexus devices so that's why sense works for God you guys take Motorola's gonna do it do you think google motorola are gonna like here it is motorola well remember we buddies wait it out well okay yeah when i interviewed them you know back in the day and not when i went to the droid m launch event not the launch of it but like them really giving review units out to people event they're basically like yeah you know verizon makes us do it I've got to find the exact quote but like they just don't have a power and I don't know if they will not with Google and I'm better I I gotta find this thing somebody to chat find me this post crowdsourcing I like it moto with ya know motorola calls stock android the right thing but vows to verizon customization going forward we're going to try and be as close to the base as we can be because we think that's the right thing for users well i gotta wonder though how much Verizon's customizations that that means because like if you look at motorola's android 4.1 phones now cuz they've got the HD Maxx and the HD up to 4.1 and the em they're still like these UI tweaks that are definitely motorola they've got that special access bar on the left home screen the home screen layla is actually really different because you only start with one and the launchers a little different and things like that I don't think any of that is mandated by Verizon I think verizon is like we want the my verizon app on there we want VZ navigator we want our suite of apps and if we're getting paid by Emma's I only want you to put all these amazon apps on as well so i think they really could do a essentially stock android by just and just shove the verizon apps on there cuz that's that's more than likely what verizon is looking for yeah um yeah I you know I I'll of motorola's hardware I love with you know the directions they've been going I mean I don't love it what does I love it no I mean I think yeah love is the wrong word I am encouraged by the direction you know the things that they've been trying to pursue in the past 18 months with their devices not at all them the atrix HD is kind of a stinker yeah but but the you know I think the razor series is a very promising line but you know I I think it you know Google's CFO made a point there last earnings call they made a very very specific point of saying that you know when they bought the company they had this long pipeline of pre committed devices that they needed to get out before they really started to take control of what was right now that division so I think that that was a tell I think they were trying to you know point out to people that there would be a very different kind of motorola motorola device coming up in ansal 2013 so a litigator whether the partnership with verizon continues i think is another question altogether i think it would be pretty amazing to see uh you know a nexus looking device come from motorola because it it's well-known that google has a very influential design directive on the nexus devices and you know the galaxy nexus and the nexus 4 are virtually identical looking until you get really close to them and it if that's google's like design ethos for smartphones and it like makes the motorola team do that that'd be kind of cool yeah yeah yeah I I would love to see like they continued the thing verizon and verizon gets the droid but they're like you know what we're just making the same thing and releasing it gsm unlocked and it's with LTE and it's the same thing but stock because that's what they did it you know they did with the milestone i think back in the day remember that yeah as a droid just fan uh yes yes I do yes I need to wrap my brain for a minute but yes I do yeah you you know old crappy Cadillacs I know old crappy motor okay well I hate to say this guy's but we actually have got some stuff we need to run and do in like two minutes so we got to keep this podcast short so you won't get to hear us complain about lawyers and Samsung injunctions which have been lifted or darn aren't happening they're not going to get banned in the US or blackberry 10 or sprint by and clearwire but those are all boring stories anyway so you know perfect re blackberry 10 I've got a file so Twitter you should I'm back lon dan is DC seaford chris is e power vladislav we will hopefully see him again soon we will see you next week thanks for watching hey guys later