Gadgetory

i'm dan seifert i'm chris sigler actually Peter I have a boy life I don't actually know that we're live I think we are at the moment no it says honor well yeah it says that for me all the time whether we're on air or not which by the way is not confidence-inspiring at all are we not on the air yeah we're on the air I'm Hugh in chat says that we're live okay so he claims yeah um i-i've a bone to pick with you dieter because two weeks ago I last program you closed it what I teasing a Christmas Day show I did and you didn't i wish i was only party to broadcast on christmas day where were you Haley tidy you called my bluff you called my bluff I actually was not ready to broadcast on Christmas Day I was hoping you just accept my admonishment move not move on but you did I was I was in magnolia arkansas and i was ready to go was there internet there yeah is it like satellite internet is it that that weird standard cable internet it wasn't super good but it worked interesting what kind of what kind of cell service did you have their terrible 18t is the worst and i had to spend a significant portion of the holiday in a place where there was just 0 service but verizon has LT either which is insane that is insane you know like every once in a while we get that that list of new verizon LTE markets yeah they're they're like 16 cities that you've never heard of that's that's a perfect example yeah so we're going to get started but i do want to warn everybody that at any moment during the Virgin Mobile show Dan could just uh without wanting to or meaning to turn into like dubstep damn of just be talking and he'll end up riff raff it's pretty awesome yeah it's amazing but yeah it's fully unintentional so don't take offense if that the type of thing offends you so this is our last podcast before the consumer electronics show which starts next week and I'm basically not sleeping I'm sick to my stomach I'm throwing up every few hours I way I have to room with you the first night we r there and I'm not having any of this if you're puking I'm all sleeping in a car or whatever Chris I've been growing my hair out specifically so that you could hold it back remember that quote until the day I die but uh but what's crazy is like the biggest news mobile news uh might have already happened and it didn't happen at CES the reasons lads not here is that he was at the launch event for boot to OS which has been announced they're aiming for i want to say was it early 2014 yeah early 2014 and it's based on the android kernel and uses i think android drivers so it should be relatively easy to support android phones over to it if they want to take advantage of existing hardware yeah but but dieter you know what else uses the android kernel and android drivers open or less yes I was yeah anyway it doesn't run so well yeah well what's funny we were talking about this before we got started that we've got a wound to OS and we've got sailfish from yalla and we've got uh what's what am I missing okay I guess fire five fire and Firefox OS all sort of like showing off their junk on like the Galaxy Nexus yeah which is great I mean that that's that's actually a really promising son they're able to use off-the-shelf hardware and do really important and cool and unique things with it because none of these guys are going to at launch you're going to have the volume or the momentum or the money to commission really cool hardware independently and in some cases their structure doesn't even lend itself to that sort of thing so the ability to do that is very important and i'm sure all of these will run beautifully on the HTC hd2 no there's already a project of a boon to running on the hd2 right there's a thread on XDA uh that is like wait open call for beta testers we gotta build on the phone version already like like not the desktop version of ubuntu book you're a four-eyed it Renza windows RT to right and that yeah yeah that happened with we were maybe gonna talk about it briefly but ya know the hd2 is running windows RT that's amazing yay love it this is the phone it'll not dad ever died yeah you'll just never die it's the it's the mobile equivalent of the cockroach it'll survive nuclear war it'll survive all these platform battles even if HTC god forbid goes out of business the hd2 will soldier on for decades to come it's gonna be a beautiful thing they should just like they should just keep making it honestly they should just like go back to the factory and do another run you know about some first generation snapdragon processor i agree i'd buy one I'm just shocked you doing a little one chris i don't actually I never did I use you know I had to I had to give mine up I was it a review unit uh was a company in it at my former employer oh and I did I don't steal from the company it's just a good policy yeah when did you start that policy now he's just he's doubling stuff in these drawers in preparation for we were fleeing to Costa Rica check out these virgin a pile of Nexus 7 so anyway Ubuntu are you guys excited about this is this something that would seriously consider using and if so why would you consider it over something like Firefox OS well okay so a couple of things 1 i'm relatively excited for it because i'm always excited for new ideas and how to use a phone and i'm excited for it because it's a phone UI that doesn't talk down everything via gestures and like there's like you swipe up from different parts of the screen to do different things and you swipe over from the left and there's a little peek thing look at your apps that you sleep over more to get the home screen and you swipe from the right to switch apps and so it could be a confusing mess but it could actually work and so I'm excited to try that but what's really interesting to me is like looking at the response on the verge of people that are excited it is getting way more attention and way more interest than I ever ever would have guessed a phone OS from ubuntu would like it's really crazy actually yeah what about you then uh you know III I hear what deters saying but I'm not nearly as optimistic about it as it seems that dieter is I and I feel the same way about Firefox OS like there I'm sure that these like they're going to bring some great ideas to the table and there's going to do some really cool things on the mobile platform yourself but as far as being like something that I could use on a day-to-day basis I don't I don't know if I could see it happening uh just not not with what I saw in the early demos yet and based on our very way you think I mean here's here's the thing i need to preface this by disclosing that my girlfriend works for mozilla and does does work with the firefox OS but i think the difference between this and the firefox OS is one the UI looks way better and two I trusted 12 to put on a product that's how do I put this not really kind of crap like what I've seen Firefox OS so far has not been inspiring and they're you know they're targeting the low end and it's just like yeah right ubuntu might actually be like an interesting thing from echo and they know I'm native apps and like they they said in their little fake keynote which actually by the way did you guys watch this like little like keynote for the internet thing I know I know it's like a 20 minute thing it's not it's not like fully like juju fake keynote like he starts out by saying this is like a keynote for the internet it's you know a guy standing in front of you know a white background and so it's fine but it's still there was still a little moment of like and anyway he said that they've got partnerships did it have canned laughter that's not a guard ships already set up with Grandpa chip graphics cards makers graphics people and so that to me that's sort of that's a dog whistle for NVIDIA will it support comp is is is what I want to know what can I make the like apps like explode in fireballs and and jiggly windows because you know that's what you do with you Bunty right jiggly windows I like um yeah I mean it bear in mind and to your point that you know they have a year until they have been planning on getting to one point oh so that's that's something to keep in mind it just I mean it bothers me a little bit that we have all of these these interesting projects that are led by really talented and smart people even including open webOS and and and you know there isn't any room for well debatably there's not any room for even a single one of these two commercially succeed let alone four or five however many that are going on right now so so it'd be nice to see some consolidation in in this field but I know there are some egos involved and well you know different even just ideas a leader is worth some some sense of like cross-platform development that actually creates apset don't suck yeah honestly like these are all based on the Android kernel or somehow related linux it would be really great if you know we could have a good way to make native or native speed apps for all these things that are good and you know I went on a tweet rampage on new year's day and my new year's resolution for web apps was I was going to continue to be disappointed with their performance for the entire year and I don't think that it's there but I mean we've got we got Tyson yeah tyson i forgot haizen stalefish ubuntu a open webOS I'm already forgetting one again fire 555 Fox blackberry over there you know they're trying to be the third place windows phone over there so it's not so good is it's like the difference between entrench players and there's a DS and all of them are like desperate to build an app ecosystem and none nobody thinks that any of them have a really good chance of doing it right yeah I mean boom it is if I don't know I had a pop I give up by the way dieter I would just like to say that I find that hilarious that you you prefaced your your-your-your discussion on mozilla versus you come tonight by saying my girlfriend works for Mozilla and then you proceeded to trash sighs like normal you would expect it to go the other way where you would be like Oh firefox was great but no you you took the other no I but I mean here's the thing though like I believe I believe in the principles of firefox office I believe that it's possible to make web apps that are kind of native but also web-based I want that to happen I wanted it to have a webos and I'm somebody in the chat asked us to quit talking about OS that's fair I want that to happen with blackberry OS they've got a really good html5 engine for running html5 apps but you know to date it's just not there and I don't have a whole I mean you know facebook is they finally released a native version of facebook for android which is terrible by the way you know like an okay so bad it's it times out all the time like i have a decent pantalla connection your timing is from it it constantly says I've no connection whether i'm on Wi-Fi or wireless or cellular or whatever it constantly says it i have to kill the app and then reopen it just to refresh the timeline yeah drives me nuts it's terrible it's really bad and then still I mean on top of all this that you know we just got done saying they're all these players in and you know an arena that has room for maybe one player and rumors are still persisting that just like they've been persisting for the past three or four years that Facebook is eventually going to get into this game and amazon and amazon that's right well these dams that'll be android-based right like in a row android apps yes but then you get into the whole debate of you know what does it mean for something to be running android right because it will obviously be their flavor of Android and and who knows what theyre curated apps because it's only gonna be apps that you could get through amazon yeah right right and i'm sure google will not be including Amazon phone activations in their official activations numbers I predicted 2013 somebody from Chrome's could be like screw it or making a chrome phone what the hell great does that look a little pirate flag up in their cubicle we're doing it I'd buy chrome phone I I think they'll yeah you'd also buy a Chromebook I would look the Chromebook is well that's a whole different discussion but it's it's a device that is near and dear to my heart and anyone who doesn't own one is doing it wrong anyway yeah um I don't know what else to say I mean it you know we'll have to wait and see if any of these are gonna be successful is pacific Lee with a boon to I just you know I want to try it hopefully they'll have something at CES that I could play with and see if it's you know actually compelling and good it did look really laggy um which but again it's super early right they they probably don't have graphics acceleration yet and they're you know they're running it on old hardware in the first place so by the time 20 I mean they have a full year of runway to not only resolve that through software optimization but also to get better hardware the pipeline to so yeah that should hopefully fingers crossed worked itself out then again I'm using a nexus 4 which you know even today like it we keep saying that the next generation of process is going to finally eliminate all traces of leg from Android and it never happens oh so we'll see um well actually yeah i mean i was maybe going to have us talk about this you know the stuff that we talked about in our year in review but let's let's actually just since you brought up the nexus 4 let's jump into CES and i'm mike in my head the connection here is i am not using the nexus 4 at CES i'm not using the iphone well i have them both in my bag but i am planning on galaxy s three as I main phone at CES I think that's a really like shrewd move on your part I support it yes as in like you know well I mean it basically came down to this I needed Android for gmail and I prefer the way Android multi tasks for IRC which is how we communicate with each other and I needed a phone that I could depend on the battery life either through replacing the battery you're having a super long battery life I'm on AT&T I want LTE is a backup solution for tethering just in case mm-hmm not that I think 18 TLT he's gonna be worth a damn I see yes and I get that it's not that like oh I smart of me to pick the gs3 it's more like what else is there for me to go with given those constraints I feel like this is going to be the first year at CES we're both verizon's and 18 tease LTE networks will be fully loaded you know what I mean I'm gonna be I'm gonna use the wimax the whole time yeah you have yeah they're the only problem with it is that there are definitely parts of both lvcc and definitely the Venetian yeah you cannot get a signal no so that's always a consideration but but that we're in the weeds uh the the yeah i'm looking forward to seeing how those networks perform and i'm also looking forward to see to seeing whether the HSPA network kind of starts to get a little more usable yeah because every everybody is on lte-capable phone now the thing is is that none of those guys are using volte so I don't know what that means for the loading of the network and also there's bad call considerations and I'm assuming that both HSPA and LTE signals are both using the same backhaul so who knows we won't know until we get there what do you get but once you guys going to use so I've got my iphone 5 on ATT so i'm going to run into the same LTE problem i'm bringing my nexus 4 but i really don't think i'll end up using it I think my sims going to stay in the iphone 5 just because no LTE but then i've got a backup a razr maxx HD on verizon so that'll be my backup connection / battery with my iphone goes down and then as a last resort i also have a note too that's coming with me so I just scrounged up the biggest battery devices that is fine yeah i'm taking i'm taking a nexus 4 on with an 18 t sim in it i'm taking a note to a verizon note 2 and i'll probably take some Windows Phone device either an 8x or an 8 22 yeah maybe I'll bring I still have the 920 review unit we all bring that Tommy tom is bringing 29 20s bethel the notes no shortage of 920 is in Vegas so I've been the reason I bring this up I mean this might be really you know why do I care what phone you guys are bringing to CES but like for us this is like when it's go time when you need to depend on a phone when you need it to be rock solid and last forever and be awesome and save your life like these are the phones that were picking yeah and it's interesting the reason that we're picking them like I would not use a razor maxx HD as my everyday phone just because the screen is terrible I'm not a fan of the hardware the cameras kind of lousy but when at the place thing like CES or any trade show for that matter my number one priority is battery life and I can put up with a slightly lousy screen I don't plan on taking a lot of pictures as long as the phone is powered on and has a signal that's like the most important thing for me so signal is good signal is definitely I remember I was at the I think it was two years ago at CES I was at the tmobile press conference uh where I met Carly and they tease the the 3d LG tablet when you said currently a thought you talked about teasing something else oh no no dieter get your mind firmly out of the gutter uh wait did I say T I didn't say tease Carly did I is it just move on yeah and everything was failing I I had a I had an 18 key hot spot I had a verizon hot spot on me neither one of those were working i came member if it was just like the signals were saturated or I didn't get a signal there what the deal was end up tethering to a tmobile phone that I had on me that was the only thing that worked which was great and very you know it's like very poetic that I was at the tmobile press conference the only thing that worked was my tmobile phone so you just you just don't know you know I mean like and you know CES covers so much ground between the convention center itself and the satellite events at other hotels that you definitely cannot go there with one form of connectivity it's a recipe for disaster I tweeted about this I've put it the forums but if you haven't uh whether you're going to see us or not if you're using a mac and you use an android phone there's an app called horrendous hor NDIS and it is amazing it uses let you use Android stock tethering us over USB stuff it's a basically a driver for the mac and that tethering over USB stopped working I think with Android fours when they switch to our NDIS and they basically like they had to pick a tethering solution for you know technically and Windows support it and they're like well we kind of go with what most confused so they use that but so the Mac has this thing it seems to just work and it's great and you don't have you don't have to install extra software it just you plug it in you turn on USB tethering and voila have yeah it works great so and i will say that i'm a much bigger fan of tethering over a USB connection then oh yeah a Wi-Fi hotspot for a variety of reasons mostly being battery life and interference but interference is the one that most people don't think of as being an issue but CES it's huge as you yeah so here I'll drop a link into chat we'll make sure to put it in the show notes too and while I am looking that up can somebody start talking about they're expecting it CS so we've gotten quite a few weeks of Sony's rumored devices and I think you know we haven't heard anything from as far as leaks from Samsung there was a minor rumor that hit today the HTC might announce something and then obviously we haven't heard anything from Motorola so for those three manufacturers we haven't heard anything but we have seen this device a couple of times now the Sony 5-inch 1080p display smartphone tablet hi whatever you want to call it these days that is allegedly going to be debuting at CES and that might be the big mobile news and then we've got a couple of things from huawei and ZTE also with big screens 1080p displays a quad-core processors so I mean they'll kind of be interesting last year or sony announced um the ion at CES and that was kind of their big deal which didn't turn out to be a hugely successful product or even a decent product well they also announced the they also announced the Xperia S there right yeah which which was the more interesting device visually but was you know it in the u.s. it didn't really have any relevance because it came to eighteen t is the ion but the the the ion didn't have that cool transparent I think the ion was a completely different device the ion supported LTE had a different hardware design and chassis I mean it was like my name is like I only have been a different processor yeah well it did because I had to support LTE so it had the snap s3 Snapdragon which is I can't stand that ship oh I've chip rage against it it had uh I don't really want to go into all the bad things with the ion because at those like one of the worst devices of 2012 but hopefully this new experience z ZL that's supposedly going to come this year will be much better regional we will have a better screen it's going to allegedly have a much higher resolution but hopefully it also has better color and better viewing angles and stuff something that every single Sony screen i saw in 2012 had terrible viewing angles and just kind of like washed out colors and even though they had high resolution for the time that 720p displays they just were not as especially if you put it next like a 1x or but dances but dan you're forgetting about Bravia Engine bravia engine and reality display an innate magic yeah yeah I guess maybe my better judgment I am hopeful for Sony I mean we've talked a few times about them making the right moves in like supporting open source and custom roms and there was even that project that was briefly a hosted by google and now i think sony has taken it up about getting AOSP on a sony device so you know if they can sort of nail the industrial design and not let AT&T ruin it and get something close to the stock software how they're like you know I would be really interested in that like they they still have a shot at my heart so I mean I Sony always comes out with like they're the first one of the first manufacturers usually to have a high-end spec like a 12 megapixel camera and you know they're one of they were one of the first on the market with the 720p display or well they weren't the first they were a couple late on that but the the high res camera you know that the dual-core processors back then but it was like even with all those high-end specs that I would like normally drool over and I was really excited to see like just the whole sum of its parts just have not come to get out any Sony device out of use so yeah hopefully they get that right and not only the design but the hardware execution where it's like you know it works that is reliable and has good quality and that's that's where they've missed in my experience and I still think I know that this is kind of like a shattered dream now thanks to the Xperia Play but I do still think that there is room for synergy between the aleena good to me yes there is there's no room there's aa by the way Dan I hope you saw the picture of you as Skrillex I'm looking right now ok oh god no but I do think so dieter imagine imagine and Xperia Play executed correctly uh-huh oh and I mean correctly I know no futzing around the real deal like man I can imagine a car designed by Homer Simpson and it sounds amazing but in execution it would be terrible no no dude look the the Vita looked at the Vita from what it is is a great gaming device the problem is that dedicated mobile gaming is a dead segment and Sony and Nintendo are going to find that out more and more and more over the next few years so they can take the magic that they've that they've you know funneled into the the PSP and the veto over the past 10 years and and and we channel that energy into mobile i think that there's still something very cool that they can do but they need to approach it very differently than they approached the Xperia Play I mean and then they did almost nothing right with the Xperia for whatever happened to HTC being Pia PlayStation Certified yeah what does it happen them that is a good question that happen at e3 right ah I don't know thats hanging out with the open handset alliance yeah the end of the upgrade thing whatever that was called yeah they're they're off partying in lands of yeah unknown origins uh so did we mention huawei and its 6.1 inch thing we haven't there something like is like Bruce if they're gonna yeah so I hit so CES you know typically HTC has been taking marble Congress lately samsung does it whenever seems like every big trade show Samsung's deal is yeah we're not going to be there like they have to set out a press release saying no the galaxy s insert number here will not be announced at insert tradeshow here we clear CES has never been a huge deal for mobile like writing but Sony's always trying to do a little bit of something there alongside everything else that they do at CES and now it looks like maybe like Khloe's trying to get some attention there i mean i remember at Mobile World Congress last year like they promised that they were going to be huge and they were going to be number three on the planet don't know that they managed a lot off numb but I could see Huawei trying to be like well nobody else is at CES we're going to put out something ridiculous and maybe see if we can get some attention and a 6.1 inch phone is I think the definition they're gonna happen Lee get eclipsed by the 6.3 inch note you know I mean seriously is good is gonna be a matter of weeks before samsung teases well come up with some like you know almost clever teaser campaign that isn't actually clever but almost is yeah you know and then something about like filling the biggest gap in their lineup and then you know it's absurd like a so i have the note 2 with me right here and people keep tweeting at me you know when I tweet about the note 2 they're like oh used it for a few weeks and then you'll be like how did I ever use something smaller no you're wrong that's completely absurd i I've had this sitting on my desk and I touch it once or twice a day just you know to remind myself of how ridiculous it is um and I could not get used to this thing and I you know stepping up to 6.3 it's just I mean I can't even imagine like it dieter I know you and I were talking about this before and they mention it on the show to that the the problem with the note 2 is that you need to handle it like a tablet not like a phone right because it's too big to you know it's just big enough so that like if you try to handle it with one hand like you would a phone you will drop it and it will break because it weighs like 3 pounds since that because it has a massive battery oh yeah yeah stepping up to 6.3 it's just going to be a complete recipe for disaster and they're they're no longer going to be able to do that you know kind of uh you know wishy-washy is it phone is it a tablet they're just gonna have to be like look we made a tablet that you can hold up to your face like you know that they won't be able to beat around the bush anymore we made a tablet that runs phone software right and then I I hope that somebody I'm not looking at at our chat but I hope that somebody is posting the jif of David Pierce holding the pad from the good space if ever a time is right for that jackets right now so I'm really like I I can't find it and for some reason it Phil Dickinson that Android Central if you're listening you need to find this picture for me like the very first picture of a person holding up 7 inch tablet to their head as like what is going on with this was me with the original Galaxy Tab and I can't find it now it makes me really a nap so you're saying that you set the precedent I did and I you know was like so why are we talking about oh the 6.1 inch quad I phoned yeah you know is why we going to get any traction in the US but it's just like what are they racing toward like what kind of insane pissing contest is this like like what is what is the end game you can't just keep making making phones bigger like at what point does it say okay we you know we maxed out do they say that do they just keep going until finally they realize that they're up to seven inches and then they have to they have to like co-brand their 7-inch tablets just really it really makes me mad they really grinds your gears huh yes it grinds my gears deal with it you know it's funny when i was using an iphone 5 for a while I got so used to the size and shape of that phone that when I first picked up a Galaxy Nexus after a couple weeks using an iPhone 5 is like holy crap how did I ever use this this is oh it was a big the the image has been founded chat bye-bye quu but is it time-stamped if it's not I mean who knows you could have taken it yesterday dude no way knowing anyway not with that haircut I look like 10 years younger in this image man if if you're watching or listening to the podcast right now here must be really really excreted now turn right now fine um yes like anything else I'll see yes I mean I mean I'm sure I'm sure that I my guess is that ZTE will do something I don't know what uh but yeah ZT will probably do something motorola for as long as i can remember you doing something they've already said that there they've like confirm that there no oh right yeah yeah yeah the Grand X yep yeah and Motorola historically has always had very boring presences at major trade shows I remember in the early days of engadget motorola had this weird thing where if you like if you wandered into their booth and start taking pictures of the phones that are out on display yes they would get all up in your face and like send security over it was insane yeah that's like I'm taking pic I'm taking a picture of a razor that's been out for six months settle down bro I'm dieter I'm glad to know what it wasn't just me oh it was I was I I assume that it was just me because I figured all they would never do that to Chrissy no they as far as I know they detect every 10 and then I had to explain what's going on and like you know I did explain what what a website was and you publish news to a website but but so anyway that's my point motorola typically doesn't do things of importance anthea shows they have a big booth a big pretty booth usually there's just nothing new or interesting there so I mean a lot of the a lot of the manufacturers tend to leave CES to the carriers and you know so motorola might not announce something but verizon might announce something like the droid bionic which will look totally different ten months later when it gets you as well HTC always did that like the evo 4g the evo 3d the whatever the I guess the last evo was at the last see ctia but they like they like giving that sort of sprint was I don't see yes the evo was out at CTA now I'm ctia I was just the 4g LTE evo yeah never mind no I meant the Evo's the previous the wimax Eva uh the first evo 4g i think was CES look god hey used to be a CES like they'd have like some random know a nice phone and you go and like you'd like they have it like literally in a drawer like I'd roll up and be like I want to see your Windows Phones HP may be like yeah where are they a lot of drawers like oh here's I think that the evo 4g was ctia yet was it was ctia all right disregard yep so it has a palm pre at CES to remember yeah so the pole I want to talk about the palm pre just because we were talking about how we were told we have to stop talking about webos we're talking about the palm pre okay because uh we're just talked about how it's a motorola is at CES would like you know don't don't look at that razor the wrong way but like when Paul announced the the pre like it was the weirdest thing ever 24 for you because they wouldn't let anyone touch it like they took they like hurried a couple people often to like a back room to like hate to show it off and then they wouldn't let you like touch it or and this went on for like six months until they release the thing so a motorola is not alone in kind of those easily well so there's this great um this great piece on a website called the verge where we we talked about like the the the backstory behind the creation of palm pre and I can't remember the author that piece but it was it was really well right I don't think it was any more and and and there's actually some discussion on the lead up to that and how they they they didn't allow journalists to touch the phone I highly recommend you you read the piece if you haven't it was it was one of pockets 10 most pocketed pieces of 2012 again not sure who the author is anyway probably cuz I was way too long I have that coming um yeah that's I think that that manufactures have learned the lesson that they shouldn't do that it's because it's very hostile not just to the media but then in turn to the readers who want you know who are trying to devour as much information on these unreleased devices that they can so that's this mobile at CES maybe we'll be surprised by something but like Microsoft thought not even gonna have a booth there writing no no that they're gonna have a presence but it's going to be entirely off floor so yeah we'll see what happens you know you know what dieter we should probably spend a really long time right now talking about blackberry so so r it will rain heavily yes yes ah they usually do yeah ah but I don't think that they're going to be showing off blackberry 10 devices they may have some dev alphas devices sitting out baby i want to say that they did at at the last show i was at mobile can't remember yeah but if they put out if they put out a CES booth with just a bunch of bolds people would like looking the kiosks here you know Terry audacity of them to have a booth at CES I just have a bunch of 9900 d yeah so what's insane to me is like just how thoroughly all of them like the the z10 and what's the other what's the keyboard wagga dental x 10 by the way terrible names like you don't know straight to Z and X like I'm sorry I take the exam like this crappy home security camera yes exactly um like like everything about them there have been videos and pictures and it's like why what else what like they might as well put them out of the booth at CES because we've seen everything except what you know that what apps are gonna have I think that's the one thing that's left is they can they're gonna announce like what they'll do ecosystem they're gonna have apps are gonna have their gonna have whatever apps they write that's how that's quite cool facebook twitter foursquare yeah yeah pretty much uh yeah i mean i don't know i guess i'm looking for i mean like the gestures the way they've implemented gestures in blackberry 10 is just interesting enough so that like i'm really interested in trying it yeah but but the hardware does not look that interesting and this one this pretty keyboard thing like you know you know me I love the idea of going back to a trio form factor candy jelly yo dude heck yeah Oh even with innovations like SwiftKey and the gesture keyboard for Calvin you would still prefer a physical keyboard I think I would or at least I would it would it would be in the running it would still like me I think I'm over that hump I'm so much faster with a virtual keyboard so the reason I like having the physical keyboard isn't just typing speed and accuracy it's also a getting crap done speed and accuracy because if there's a physical keyboard there you can just start typing what it is you want to do I can if I want to call Danna da enter enough call again if I want to open up you know a nap or whatever I can just fit it and open it as you can see me I'm doing it I'm really excited about holding this in my hand but this courtney one does not look very high-end relative to what the non-core d1 does and i'm hoping these adjusted r / devices yeah the specs are gonna be basically the same right yeah but I just like you know like looking at the back of it just I don't know they're very boring looking devices i mean it's it's obvious in there that they're still trying to appeal to you know like the classical blackberry user which is a shrinking market when you consider that a lot of these guys have long since moved to iphones yeah and and so you know torsten Heinz has been talking about the fact that their you know their market is now split into two pieces they're attacking the the you know the hardware side and then they're also attacking the the BYOD movement which i think is more of a movement now it is now rapidly becoming the norm yeah and and that that makes rims hardware much less relevant and if they make devices that look like this that's just going to speed that push into irrelevance I think yeah and I mean the thing to remember about rim is that you know we just had their their their last quarterly results and it was literally the first time that their subscriber base went down so we've been talking about rim like going off a cliff but there the graph of their subscriber base has been going up this whole time this whole past two years we've been complaining about rim not not you know knowing what they're doing and not developing an OS and habla like it's still been going up so it's just now that they're finally having people by eyes in I mean yes its internationally and in the u.s. totally for market the thing is it's going up but their their revenues and their products I've been like the opposite so I mean they could always boast about big numbers but the the financial results were were lining up with it right yeah um by the way Tom our own tom warren is trolling me on Twitter right now and he's uh he's asking me to keep pushing you on on rim theatre he doesn't want to talk about anything else just just I've you know what else is there I want to try the hub I want to see if the mall there multitasking paradigm actually works um and you know I don't know it's I'm I'm you're you're gonna be talking to me in March about you're making fun of me for having you know give it a real try for a month and what was wrong with me it's really going to come down to whether gmail works with it or not if gmail doesn't work with it I mean it's it's gonna be a non-starter for virtually all of us but well it's gonna be it's gonna be I map right that's hopefully a working I map I mean because that's better than what you get with gmail like blackberry 7 yeah glad to say like reg my ultimate role the ultimate troll I'll be that by my 10 doesn't do two-way sync with Jesus gmail an imap actually isn't that good on even an iphone like there's like I know Rene Ritchie a time or I'm talk about all my old people uh complains all the time about problems that he has I haven't used gmail and I'm app on an iphone have a long time but I what I did I was you know there are errors and timeouts and weirdness so uh it's not ideal either yeah yeah it's it's going to be very time een the classic question that I keep coming back to is how do they grow their market segments with these devices because if you look at you know yeah I hate to keep making the comparison with Windows Phone but you look at what Windows Phone is done between 7 7.5 and 8 and their inability to grow market share significantly with quite frankly what has become a very good product and and you know it is so so I keep asking myself if blackberry 10 comes to market it turns out to be a just an absolutely fantastic almost flawless operating system on very good hardware even then does it matter I don't know at best I think that they can sell into their existing subscriber base and like I said before that's a that's a base that's shrinking and a base that eat like even if you bring this updated hardware to the table and it's great I still don't know if it'll save well you know the problem is they can sell they can sell into their existing subscriber base that's actually not a like that's a more complicated statement than it seems on its its face because they can sell into their existing high-end subscriber base that's you know there's hardly anybody there anymore yeah well it's their subscriber base is you know low end and teenagers and messengers and whatever else internationally and I'm charming an email from the room PR person telling me I'm wrong about that but it certainly seems to be the case and they're gonna keep selling those blackberry 7 phones for I think it was then you say like another two years they're going to coexist which is like busy yeah they aren't going away right away so like selling into their existing subscriber base they can always sell into a small fraction of it initially em there they need to expand that fraction really really quickly yeah maybe long-term the best play for them assuming they're around this long is to is to kind of employ the Apple model where they keep the generation 1 like very 10 devices around them those becomes low-end devices when they introduced the new the new model yeah I think that that'll be difficult for them once they talk to carriers because carriers will want something newer don't want something customized and things happen and I mean the reason apples been able to do that is because of the hard hand that it's been able to to hold the carriers back from demanding everything so yeah yeah but if they are able to pull it off it certainly seems like a smart idea as far as to move the blackberry 10 devices download it right so it's gonna be really short mobile show I think cuz we've got places to go and people to see and things to do but there is one last thing I definitely want to talk about and that's this report out of the wall street journal that Google and Motorola are building an x-phone and part of me wants to be like well yes of course they are like okay so what would the only interesting thing there is that maybe they're trying to do something different and more than just putting out you know something like a Nexus device but well the the first the very first point I'd like to make here is that the The Wall Street Journal and I think this is frankly been underreported and we heard it's much to blame for that as anybody but but the wall street journal basically got their last nexus rumor wrong they said in spring of 2012 that that a variety of Nexus phones would be released in the fall time frame and that that didn't happen so well we don't have we had two tablets on the phone yeah yeah fair enough but I correct me if i'm wrong i think the original Wall Street Journal report said phones yeah I think you're different manufacturers so uh so you know that my first thing is that I you know we can't take this wall street journal report as gospel you know we can we can certainly put a lot more weight on it than we can on some other sources but but it's still open to interpretation you know it so still could be you know some guy heard from some guy who heard from some guy who has a friend who's an employee at the company and you know game a telephone happens and and really this it just turns out to be another high-end motorola device that's coming out later this year there's nothing else that's special about it so just temper you know remember a pessimist is never disappointed as i like to say so so so temper your enthusiasm and hope for the best but what if I what if a pessimist like ends up like going into a restaurant getting a really awesome burrito and it's like it's so good that they're disappointed in their their pessimism they wish they had spent looking forward no no no the way that would play out is it go in the restaurant they'd say this this burrito is gonna suck and then they eat him they're like wow that was actually really good and then there was only surprised and then they'd be disappointed in himself being a pessimist that I didn't take it that far I didn't think about that that you're right that is a problem I don't know what to do about it though uh you know like so like they're saying bendable screens and ceramics around the table they might include gesture recognition software I mean I want to say that I don't know if we'll ever see a bendable screen phone in in our lifetime because it feels like we've been told the bendable screens have been coming for I don't know well so i'm gonna show something to you again sure yeah yeah yeah but but they're not so I mean people are conflating the promise that these manufacturers and everyone else in the world is conflating what they mean by bendable like when they're talking about like a flexible or bendable display what they really mean is that it's mounted in some way in the phone so that it's it doesn't shatter Riley give you if you drop like it's not like oh I can I can bend my phone like silly putty like a we and we see we've seen concepts like that in the past I think Nokia had one a few years ago but it's it's literally just like a block of of you know bendable plastic that they're like a a phone in the future might look like this um and and no one has really given me a compelling reason why phone should be able to bend like that what we've seen some really cool things where like you know they're talking about putting like wearable computers on soldiers wrists so that they can have moving naps like you know just by looking at their at their arm I'd like to do that on my wrist yeah well yeah but but you look like a the problem is that you look like a complete dork and at that point you might as well just upgrade to google glass like if you're willing to look like that much of a dork just go whole hog so so yeah there you know I I don't think that the dream of a if it's really anyone's dream of having a fully bendable phone is anytime soon if ever and think about all the thing all the time if I had a fully available phone I can keep it in my back pocket or it could be a resurrection of the foot yeah you can keep it in your back pocket eater but then you you you pull it out and it would be like bendy and it would be here I prefer my phones vente just a little bit a little bit of you know like can you imagine like holding a phone like this it's like a true thing on one side I all I know is my phone is around here is here the phone isn't on room until I can take it out and throw it against the wall and it sticks that's when you know that it's right really what Chris is asking is do you want a flaccid phone and your wife dude is going anything you had to go for the other thing uh well in you know I look I don't put a pass Samsung to develop a flaccid phone because they're there other that bait you know they have the R&D capabilities certainly they own the display it wouldn't it wouldn't be flat so much as flaccid an S flaccid phone ya know that they have everything they need to pursue that development pads i think what i'm saying is that they're going to find that consumer demand for something like that is virtually zero think about like like 3d displays right on on mobile I mean heck on regular TV is much less mobile but the EVO 3d fell flat on its face yeah I hope TC isn't listening to this Cherie and uh and that is showing no signs of coming back I remember like 18t came out with like 13 I can t remember the name of it there's number L I owned one thrill 4g QP you owned it you own an LG Thrill that's that's i did on what it was stolen that's great I'm gonna hold that over your head and I believe that's the ultimate troll that someone stole a throw for Jeannie and has to live with that now goaltimate anti-theft device is ID so so yeah I mean there's there's lots of evidence to indicate that despite all the focus grouping in the world and all the research in the world manufacturers can still go down entirely incorrect fat and flaccid phones might be another one those paths TC heard every word you said just the fact that he's in our chat now nice nice nice ITC I hope you're enjoying your evo 3d remember when remember when 20c scooped the those those concepts of the vtc making the the evo 4g LTE 3d then and the phone got got canned and it here's how I think it played out I think that TC saw that and scooped and put it on the site and then HTC or sprint read the comments on that post yeah yeah TC don't worry man we're gonna get your new phone soon oh man sorry I remember TC gave me a very good explanation as to why he bought that when he did it head-on extra camera uh yeah I believe its reasoning at the time was that when he bought it he needed a new phone it was the best phone on spray as far as specs wise and when I think back to it he's like right which is insane but yes the you send it when in reality how it actually played out his TC wife and his friend and he's like what what phone has the most cameras they were like hearing it cameras is not enough yeah I need a minimum of three did you know that android phone name generator calm exists yeah yessum pure just like this yeah this is great this is amazing ah it works really well too they all sound legit a shirt droid neo prime e 3d I I believe that was a real phone this is amazing the same song mytouch vibrat v thanks terraria Optimus x 24 g + g 1 and we broke it it's now giving me a bad gateway oh really we broke it already it can't be right we thought I got a kick oh wow alright we're back Oh sony ericsson captivate slides e 4g excited i can tell you definitively that the version wobble show is outside too much traffic 280 site right you you know how old this is by the fact that it doesn't have LTE anywhere like none of these have LTE in their name this needs to be updated for 2013 so uh that's all I want to talk about unless you guys have something I'm gonna wrap a show we should wrap soon I yeah I think we should but we should we should tell we should let our listeners know not to worry there will be programming next week live from big yes and plenty of programming yes so much programming that you're gonna be like oh my gosh this is too much programming you're going to go ground we're going to program we're gonna reach out through the internet and tell you what to do yeah so there's little you know those little bottles of 5-hour energy you'll be slamming those four weeks traits just to keep up with all the programming we're throwing at you this fire hose at programming yeah anyway so we may do a little show we may not we'll see but there'll be plenty of other video to ingest yes and so stay tuned for that madness in the meantime if you wanna get hold of us you can we are virgin mobile show at the verge calm I believe the email addresses give it a try see what happens you could leave a comment on this post when it goes up and you could follow us on Twitter all together we're a dirge i met back on chris's etsy power dan is at DC seifert with an e I Vlad who is not here is that glad say Bob if you haven't checked out his hands on of the new blue to phone OS you really should because it's awesome ah you got to try it night in that's worth looking at thanks for watching everybody you