Gadgetory

hello welcome to the Virgin Mobile show where we have a hard time knowing what if we started this is episode 33 it's a week of january fourteenth 2012 we have a skeletal crew we're missing Chris Ziegler but our other three anchors are here and I feel really good about that if you don't know who we are will introduce ourselves because that's how we do I am dieter bohn how I'm flats MO and i'm dan seifert and we're back from CES I'm still feeling it I was really good and then I wasn't so good and that's where i'm at right now and I need to get good because I want to see my three month old two month old I have no idea how many months old nice uh this weekend and if I can't get healthy than I can't do it because she's too young to get immunized against anything how you guys feeling I was feeling great up until like three hours ago and all of a sudden I just got like hit with this congestion and kind of a sore throat going on so i was i was actually making fun of the rest of our team who happened to be like pretty much laid out with everybody is sick so Chris eclairs sec he's he's still working cuz he's a madman but he he literally if we had him on the show it would it would be coughing and phlegm and he's probably in fact people just over to pro cast is that bad ya debe me on the other hand I've actually been a very good and punctual human being and I haven't done the whole Posse yes staying out into a 60m and catching a flight 630am know that ocean oh no that madness well I mean the thing is it's a cause and effect right people do crazy things that and they complain when the bodies can take him I only went out one night and I got plenty of sleep afterwards and I feel like I was a very responsible person at CES as was i most of the time that I was losing sleep at CES is because i was working not partying like I went at once so yeah I think we're over responsible um but other that doesn't change the fact that we're all kind of under the weather or the moment but at the same time needs to describe the accrues being skeletal add topics of conversation actually pretty skeletal to there hasn't been that much going on possi yes no there really hasn't but we've got we've got a few things to discuss but I can't promise that we're gonna be here for an hour and a half in fact I promise you that we won't be here for an hour to have um by the way the Sun looking drag this out yeah I just I just sounded the the challenge going for me now it's like did you guys know that I worked my way through college at a place called 33-minute photo really but we developed we developed photos in 33 minutes or less wow that's where I learned how to color correct I got pretty good at it when i was in college we stuck to the one hour limit on our photo developing oh man gotta do it fast when you work at the lungs grocery store you can't screw around anyway so seriously mobile things what's happenin since we had a get together so I guess let's talk about rim and blackberry 10 for a while the announcements coming up on the 30th and two weeks like every single thing has leaked like is like I don't know what they have left in the hopper right you know I talked to them at CES recent at least eight price real estate and like a couple of surprises probably I'm still guessing it's going to be related to like how they're you know showing video and movie purchases and music purchases we one of the many many many things that leaked was like a training manual i think for rogers employees that looked like it was produced by rim and they had said there that they're definitely going to be selling music movies i think it said they're targeting 70,000 apps for launch which is a pretty respectable number there was there was one bit in the slide that was crazy hilarious i don't think we posted on because everything in there we kind of are no but it was something like I gotta find it now it was um remember what it was that it was like yeah facebook and rim hey I can google I gotta find it while other platforms like Facebook and Google are harvesting information about you and what you're doing online we have built a platform that protects what's important to you like wow that's hard man I mean it's all related to you know their security and blah blah blah but it's like that's a that's a bigot android right there but to be honest that actually sounds almost exactly to the word the same as well the chinese government is saying about perfect it's a case of if you get online with a mobile or desktop you need to disclose your real identity to your isp and then the chinese government will protect that identity for you yeah so yeah I mean to me this whole phrasing of rim will protect your information the most protective thing room can do is not to collect my information leave it alone yeah I mean they're there the way that the doing email is direct over I map we know that it's going to support CalDAV and carddav directly for talking to to google so I mean unless you sign up for BBM and you sign up for like the blackberry come from wiped out the other thing is definitely a small remote wipe you saw that in the manual I suppose you don't have to give your information room to use a blackberry 10 device well then yeah then that is great then it's protect my information it's not it's not being too nosy but I mean we saw the z10 leak again there's like a 10 or 12 minute walk through of everything on the phone and it's all you know it's stuff we've seen it's the hub it's you know it's everything uh you know I don't know I don't know what's left it's just everything is leaked it everything I it looks fine it looks fast I'm excited to try it I know I'm the only one no no no I'm excited to play with it at least well I hope that they can get you know some android apps legitimately into the blackberry app world if you know my legitimately joke was there was a doobie truck do we talk about this there was a drama where Android developers were seeing our apps show up in blackberry app world and in a couple of cases it was because somebody had actually pirated it and then submitted it and was trying to make money off of selling it I talked the robot at CES and like look this is this is a very very tiny problem and of course we've got to try and stop this stuff and if something gets through a killer right away so I don't think it's a huge drama but they did point out one interesting thing which was a lot of Android developers you know they make the rap but they don't necessarily distribute it they let some other companies sort of handle that and to get you know submitting it to the market submitting it to marketers and other things and sometimes those third party distributors end up submitting it to app world and the developers don't know about it but you know if that stuff gets pulled to but i'm really interested to see just how well this this these android apps work on blackberry 10 because if it works really well i could force a situation where i would want to you know somehow hackett so even if it's not in the blackberry app world i would still find a way to grab it off I Android and stick it on there sticking on a blackberry which isn't I suppose technically you know legal I'm honey up-and-up will say right but it would it would be an easy way to solve the app problem if in fact they haven't that problem um I do yeah Welch everybody is in that program well everybody but Apple big natural tunics then Google yeah now Apple's App problem i mean i mentioned this in last week's podcast to me is a really big one which is that it's wholly dependent on third-party developers right none of those guys are going to run away i mean nobody's going to abandon a big revenue source such as iOS but it's still the case that like I've just been using nexus 7 that you so kindly hands off to me data and I look at the first applications that are put on my home screen google owns every single one of them chrome Gmail play store youtube right those are just the first few apps that I've slept on home screen if I go and look at an iOS device as nice as they are as nice as the ipad the ipad mini of the iphone are well the first thing i do the first publication is stick them in a folder and instinct that folder on a separate home screen so it's not in my face yeah it's funny that you mentioned that on android google owns the main apps that you use because for me on iOS google owns like ninety percent of the main apps that I use so the right so use the same situation i'm still using chrome i'm still using google maps on iOS so in terms of the future i actually think google and android is the most secure platform on the app front which at the moment is the most important thing with devices yeah so I mean rhythm is really really like a bully uh on having enough apps there like that the I asked him you know do you have the apps you need for a successful launch and it wasn't like yeah it was like yes we do whatever everyone said that everyone said I wasn't it wasn't just like we think so were we hope so or we've got a good plan or anything it was yes but I mean Microsoft add to record having this conversation with them just before the launch of windows phone 7 some two and a half years ago however long it's been and they were like you know what everybody keeps talking about numbers of apps what we're going to do is we're going to improve discoverability and we're going to focus on quality of apps so it honestly is just marketing talk until you get a device out until you actually give people apps that they want to use and they don't need to be the big brand name once they just need to be good ones if they're unique if they're ones that you don't already have on android iOS that's even better that makes it interesting well i don't know i feel like you know a lot of times especially people that are going to be running out and buying say a blackberry 10 within its first month or on ice running it up running out lining up our people that are going to be already owning smartphones or are you going to have apps that they're using services that they're using prime smartphones are core blackberries Wow Lord black but hopefully rim hopes that people who are using iOS devices and Android devices etc are going to be interested in buying a blackberry 10 platform and if you know you get there and say there's no Dropbox app or say there's no way that I can control my google voice account or there's no there is a Dropbox app that was one of the one of the I think the video leaked the video Tyga so we have dropbox cool yeah so I mean but if those apps aren't there then it's a problem and even if there's like an alternative version if you're already bought into a system and say you own storage or you're paying for cloud storage you can't access it through a third-party knockoff app or because the official app isn't there then it's kind of a disappointment and you know we're seeing the same thing on Windows Phone there's a third party apps for a long time there's a third party Dropbox app that you had to pay for and it offered like up crappy or experience that you get on the other platforms and so it's just like kind of just a crappy experience all around if those you know core apps or key apps aren't there available for you by the way then I love that condescending thumbs up when he heard this girl set for blackberry 10 just like yeah yeah now he needs to do that only for 2999 to go well I mean on the subject it was just recently announced last reveal that room got 15,000 app submitted with his poor two thumbs so I had a couple of porta phones which is math and coding sessions to port your apps I'm guessing it's just a cheesy cheesy name um but in any case there's everybody well I mean that's actually that's encouraging but it's also it's important for these developers to get in at app launch I remember I mean watching Windows Phone launch and even watching webos launch there's a there's a real chance for somebody that hasn't been able to get traction on another platform to something attraction on a brand new platform because they're the only app that does X or Y and people are looking for it and they just happen to find it so it makes a lot of sense to be there for that initial wave whether or not you know it matters in six months and you know that's a whole other story but it makes sense but really incentivize this is what I think there's a hundred dollars as a bonus if your app is approved to get into the store and then I forget exactly what the conditions are but you can be entered in to a drawer to get a blackberry 10 dev alpha device well there's also the guarantee that if you may if you get sell certain number of our apps but don't make a certain number amount of money that they're going to guarantee you ten thousand dollars I forget exactly the terms are there yeah you have to you have to make a thousand dollars with your app but if you don't make like 10,000 and they'll give you the rest or something like that if I'm correctly guys that guarantee was issue something like 6-8 months ago not even even longer yeah that's ancient yeah yeah I never said it was new man the point is rubys just gonna be like what guarantee yeah we don't have archives that stretch that far back forget about it but I also mean that it's actually like look at these numbers actually find them kind of stupid frankly because well I mean look the really serious and committed app developers are they really going to be tempted by a 100-dollar incentive now and then if their app is moderately successful getting entered into a drawer to get a dev alpha device it's kind of like you just rub your shoulders and it also reminds me of what microsoft recently did around the world is for an 8 launch where they lowered the entry level price t no sign up for dev account Microsoft's problem wasn't getting 16 year old teenage boys from India to put together apps that's exactly what has been happening right what I mean look at it look at it this way like honestly what else can rim be doing to support developers good stuff i mean we're assuming they're doing all the biz dev talks i said you know we're talking to everybody we can and with PowerPoint presentations of a show if it's a technical problem we'll fix that and if it's a business problem we'll fix that so they're doing it they can for the big name stuff they're doing what they can for the little guys like all the only the only other thing that I can think of that they need to do is launch the damn phones and cell devices and look like a chicken and egg problem because right you know if you don't have the apps the odds of selling the devices are much lower and if they don't sell the devices the interest in developers from developers much lower so yeah but really it just needs to be you got to get these devices in people's hands people got to be like I want this app yeah I'll for this end of its year one thing that actually surprised me is the big four carriers in the US verizon 18t t-mobile and Sprint have all said yeah we're going to carry blackberry 10 and I expected one of them to sort of sit back kind of but I mean rims got blong histories with all of these carriers obviously and we know it's going to be on everything in Canada we know it's going to be you know a worldwide launch so you know they've I know people are tired of like the webos comparison but they appear to have solved a couple of those problems it's faster and it's going to be on all the carriers to people are they're not going to have to wait and be stuck in an exclusive with somebody hopefully for very long so like as in so far as we've seen somebody try to take on that android/ios duopoly we saw Windows Phone take a crack at it a couple of times now and you know for various reasons that hasn't had a huge impact and I'm sure that our Windows Phone loving readers are going to be sending me emails hi guys but it's true and I don't know that blackberry 10 is either but it seems like they've managed to avoid the biggest and most obvious pitfalls we'll see what the app situation is really like on the 30th but in terms of like possibility of like setting themselves up to have a successful launch like they're doing most of the obvious things the question is will be enough and I just don't know it just been bez mentioning here would respect to the US carriers this is something that lesson tweeted on Twitter at lesson bina as opposed to carry on google+ or to yeah okay for treating them facebook social graph we need to talk about that graph search which is just bonkers to me sure um but I mean this is a very good point rim is essentially being used as a dummy room is desperate to do exactly what you are saying be you ubiquitously available so I'm sure room is bending a knee in negotiations with verizon everybody else but older carriers are using it as a dummy a third option quotation marks a fourth option guess whatever to iOS and Android so that when they go to talk to Samson when they go to talk to Apple about the next device they can say well you know what room is coming out with its devices so I think that's the major stimulus for all the carriers to carry blackberry 10 to because they need that extra option like a saying da windows phone has been tepid like it hasn't taken it off it hasn't been a legitimate competitor to the big tube so the fact that blackberry 10 is unknown actually plays in the carrier's favor like maybe in five hours time we'll know the blackberry 10 is a flop and or or success or a success but we also know that like just as with Android and with Samsung at least early Samsung maybe not so much now rim is more willing to play ball with carrier requests and demands than Apple is and so the carriers are might be more interested in pushing BlackBerry devices themselves because they know that they can get you know whatever little sweet kickbacks and sweetheart deals and extra apps on the phone or whatever from rim and then they know they're not going to get it off of the iphone yeah but I mean how much how much does that really matter but in line ma'am I think what does affect their bottom line is if the amount of subsidies that they have to pay on each phone the iphone is definitely the highest subsidized device on any carriers lineup so if a carrier is able to push another device that they don't have to shell out four hundred fifty dollars for upfront um when they sign up a person up then certainly with yeah but be appealing to them yeah and I mean not to knock the z10 before i've actually played with it for real I mean let's be honest it's it's basically commodity hardware the screen is pretty good you know it's using it I think one of these we saw was a Snapdragon s4 processor you know it's it's basically as we can see all these Android manufacturers kick-out Android devices and there's no reason that RIM couldn't do the same with blackberry 10 devices because they're using the same parts one of the things at CES some some executive popped off and said that they're going to have six blackberry 10 devices in multiple price points in 2013 which is more than the two we had you know new known for sure um and that's hilarious it's important because it could be different SKUs maybe but I don't know because we know that there's gonna be different LTE SKUs for the different LTE markets right but he said a different price points so right I mean that's kind of a big deal because up until that statement we had understood that blackberry 10 would be for the higher end devices and then rim was still gonna be selling blackberry 7 and 7.1 like it just launched what was that thing it just launched on a t-mobile a week ago just before see yes with 7.1 on it uh and that was going to be the entry level but now with different price points maybe rim is intending to bring blackberry 10 down down market a lot sooner than we had expected so again that's that's another point in his favor as far as getting it out there as much as possible just like being on all the carriers or all the main carriers in the US getting it across multiple price points I think Dida just dropped the mic and was about ready to walk away you didn't want to talk about the 93 20 or whatever the heck that thing is uh uh wait wait but seriously how bad is it that this is the verge mobile show and we're like just riffing and referencing whatever the hell that weird blackberry thing was it is I mean we're so disinterested in rims current quotes ranges lessons differentiated at all you know I know I don't end it and it's just so dire it's such a dire situation i I mean I can't help but feel that what we have right now the situation we're all facing right now is basically a situation that us take the journalists face when we get a bag swag right so you don't want it you know like you're not even allowed to take it because it's wag right yeah but the thing is at the same time you're curious you want to know what these people put together to try and seduce you into writing good things about it so it's like curiosity is the overwhelming thing you want to see and then ultimately just like a bag of slag you're horribly horribly disappointed by and it's exactly what you expected even though your eternal optimism kept you going and made you open the bag and I know what you do is you take that bag of swag from somebody like Samsung you walk over a few proofs and hand it over to something like fujifilm yeah I'm cracking up because uh flat and I were walking around the Florida last day of CES and but eggs did exactly that and this is this is not such a hypothetical yeah I mean Samsung have okay first of all create to samsung for having a dedicated area for journalists and bloggers like just giving people a place to sit down have a reliable fast connection and have a drink is go they were serving this like blue hypnotic type of drink that I couldn't find this lounge by the way I was that Samsung's boot for like an hour and a half i watch netflix right outside the samsung cube like I walks the cube was outside the key balls inside the cube yeah it's like there's the Borg cube thats painted white and then outside of that it was it was the dress looks like it isn't you discuss that a little bit because Samsung is really working hard to make itself stand out and to insulate itself from his competition and the way it did that I see yes by making it out yeah well sometimes always had a big booth well at least for the past four years when I better see so sad a big poof it's always competed with LG for how much real estate it occupies and Sony but this year it actually built a cue around this brief so that you you couldn't make any mistake about when you're in Samsung's territory when you're out of it right everybody else you can kind of just walk through their boobs and into somebody else's it's kind of its kind of communist in that respect baby there's no walls you can just walk 40 G's phrase straight into panel make it and stumbling to show with Samson there's a big-ass key I mean humongous cube where the whole thing is contained and it's no Samson and and it's just not only that but what are the entrances to the cube had their giant 85-inch easel for ktv m and so not only could you only go in one way there are two entrances one of the entrances was the entire show mobbed with people so you had to fight your way in and fight your way out it was it was it was crazy which is either attempts at once it won't get crowds and it wants to crush people if there are def stairs Sam say would be like yes achievement we have so many people coming that they can't even survive entry internally someone gets promoted while Samsung pushes out a PR saying they're pretty oh that's so terrible i'm sorry you said but you said you had something to say about graph search facebook's graph search i mean i was there at the event I mean it looks fine I don't know we've got a couple of reports up on it work I think there's another one I'm sorry I couldn't be more bored by that I was so looking forward to something vaguely mobile related it wasn't alone yeah there was no phone and there was no bubble product so like uh even all the way at the whole event not a single thing with mobile was mentioned until the Q&A section with somebody got up and was like when I can I use this on my phone and suck was like ah we're working on it hey I don't know okay well thankfully I've had enough time to censor my question which is what the funk is this garbage Wow like Facebook has been such a data mining operation for such a long time and now they're giving us a social search which is in order for it to quote unquote work way to get facebook even more data and we need to create I mean this is a stimulus to make us create even more connections and have even more barely you know Bailey acquaintances turned into quote unquote friends it's just I mean I see listen for Facebook's perspective this graph search it's perfect idea of it it's like a supermarket loyalty card like minimal expense for them maximum ceiling in terms of obtaining even more stuff which is valuable for them what does this help me I mean it helps us gather the picture search is really great I mean look I look at it this way people are analyzing this through the the same lens that people analyze the change in instagrams terms of service we and you'll I make this point really well like we fundamentally mistrust Facebook and everything that Facebook does we look at it through that lens of distrust if you can step back from that lens of distrust and be like well Facebook needs better search so Facebook is going to build good search what's the natural search for facebook content that like makes sense in the context of Facebook and I think it's pretty close to what they built the interesting thing to me is like how influential is this kind of searching going to be in the future I mean you don't search for that this kind of stuff on Google right you search for a different kind of thing on google and you search for a different kind of thing on facebook and so will those two worlds kind of colliding some point like Google like Google did search plus your world and stuck Google+ stuff into its core search people got pissed facebook is kind of like their big stuff is kind of like an ad on its way at the bottom it's pretty terrible but neither one of them are like neither one of them are colliding and so the big question for me is like it's fine that Facebook is added search and I hope it gets on mobile soon and that's great but what happens in two years when you know the stuff that I want to search for is an amalgam of the stuff that's on facebook and the stuff that Google can find and for the audio podcast this is DITA just did a dance yeah that was amalgamation dance it's my I need to stay awake and I'm standing up automation dance well I mean I should caveat you jazz hands to any any impressions i have about it by the fact that i don't have it yet so i haven't used it and end eaters i think the only one is the three of us it's actually used it so yeah you guys signed up it sits up on my count I I signed up but uh I'm on the waitlist I think get led into cool kid party yet ya know I got I think I think they let people at the event get on the waitlist early and so we went and shot a video Ellis Ellis hamburger and I right away and the video was terrible because I was like I was tired now shaky and I forgot my little tent pole tripod which I feel stupid about and so it was a terrible video and so I go back and I start cutting the video and like this is really bad and then I checked and I had it and so um I gave my Facebook credentials to Thomas you so I was like don't look at my junk have fun I do real hands-on with a proper video producer and worked out great he did a great job the video please yourself see that's the kind of trust at facebook wants yeah the kind of trust you had in Thomas you stood not to totally destroy your facebook world yeah which he totally could have and the rest of my world too because my world is completely on facebook but there's a point I think dance point is very at least a very important thing which is that Facebook is increasingly being designed for people who use it in a really committed way I mean for example what I did recently was i just trimmed them a facebook friend list to 18 yeah i've been trying to i try to trick me on my facebook friendless I like go in I've got you know because there was a while where I was adding everybody like when I started at the record I was like oh yeah sure come on in right be able to talk to you guys but now I'm trying to trim it down and I only managed to last about 15 minutes before I get tired of it because there's so much scrolling and waiting and clicking and waiting check your king and yeah blah blah blah it's really hard to just like defriend everybody or just like I don't quickly get rid of people there's lots of clicks that's super aggravating anyways I'm not sure dude don't think about Facebook is really hard and frustrating I I post sometimes I posed verse stories to the verge Facebook stream and I will click like today I will click post it will not show up it will seem like it's still loading but I will know is posted and you know if i go back to the facebook page it's there so it's it's like the whole interface kind of busted I gotta be honest with me i cannot avoid all right like I think our generation or our demographic has a version to facebook that is not shared by the rest of the world or the like people older and people younger I feel like like we came on it was early it was hip it was cool way better than myspace and now it's kind of like all of our own you know college friends and all their friends are there and some family stuff but you know the majority of people are like still lovin life playing words with friends hooked up to Facebook they're still posting photos um so there's there's a bit of a you know it's it's hard to it's hard to like get a sense of how do the vast majority of people really feel about Facebook because the vast majority people are just using it and just fine with it it's the internet for them I mean I don't mean to sound like an elitist but I feel her that's just lag perpetual lag between the guys who tack on to the more useful and more functional things first and then the guys who catch up later lag is the reason that a was to exists all right no the reason that AOL still exists is because have you ever tried to cancel a dial-up a well-planned its heart it's harder than unfriending every single person on Facebook individually oh oh 1 billion is what you say yes all 1 billion so you want a friend all 1 billion and then go ahead and unfriend all of them you'd have an easier time than trying to cancel your dial up uh subscription with a twill that you've had since 1995 yeah well that's good to know keep in mind and try to stay clear of a well services but also less a job a quick mention for myspace because they just this week launched their new service yeah I shoulda like baby I haven't listened to the song yet no it's terrible what what's what's his nickname what do we how do we how to refer to justin timberlake and with only like four or five letters I've no idea what do you mean like isn't it JT JT just calm JT so I was so does JT comedy but too many syllables in his name work on yeah exactly I mean pecan goes in that effort when I do the verge mobile show everybody wear your favorite mobile editors display just how out of touch with pop culture they are and how sad and ancient their music tastes are and how much they're not like you because there doesent hey hey haina even Justin Timberlake is getting a bit ancient now mean he's been around for over a day okay so so this is really funny because just last week at CES I think I was complaining to a bunch of coworkers and dieter you were probably in the car at the time about how justin timberlake hadn't released anything since 2006 and I was like what's he doing and then like Monday his new song comes out and I'm like what is this this is not a sport so so I'm on the up-and-up I'm sure Dan youyou asked for more justin timberlake in I like last album is great so okay we're a goal it will leave that for Dennis weird podcast what's move ok now okay they did this cross promotional thing where he launched a song and they launched the new myspace to the public it was really accessible via invites I jumped into it I got into it it's really bare bones I think the whole idea is for your content to be highlighted in to be permanent it tries to have a more modern UI if you if you just start typing it does this massive screen dominating search which I should can enjoy I find it fun interesting but it's just bare so I rent I've had a beta invite for months now and when I first got it I like clicked in an 8a invite yes abita yeah uh I clicked in and I think I filled out like half of my profile and then I just was like I give up I don't want to go through this anymore like there's like nothing drawing me there to like you right everything what makes you guys happy because when all the stuff is there you complain that all the stuff is there Pete and Facebook's trying to pull your junk in and like make you feel stuff out like half content like oh that's creepy I don't want all that stuff but then when nothing is there and it's you know an empty think what what's your perfect happy medium where I got out about of social now I've got two points to raise first I just said facebook is trying to pull your junkie well they did at least they did release a snapchat clone I mean I'm just saying all right uh where's with my space fair point I mean listen if you if you force me to pick between Facebook and MySpace 'as interfaces it's an easy easy win for my space granted but dense point is with a new myspace what essentially doing is oh here we go another new social service in order to me to make this useful I need to hook up with other people i'm already hooked up with via twitter and then start sending myspace messages between us which is what i already do on twitter unless Assad who doesn't follow anybody in Twitter hey I follow 78 people I think that's plenty how many of them are a number i'm not gonna I was gonna make a carrot joke but it's mean it's it's played its tired um no but dude just diversify you used like yellow turnips hail o yalter Wow what else it ever got parsnips pauses good today yo he also likes cauliflower and broccoli oh yes I know how people live a cauliflower I'm not even joking why it's it's like it's like that it's like a non-food like whatever what could you do with cauliflower except like soak it in butter like and like there's this it's i mean that's kind of how i feel about every vegetable if it's not soaking butter or cheese or slept well i don't know i could appreciate vegetables like cauliflower it's it's like it's just like a I don't know that's terrible you know and you know the worst though is the worst is watercress watercress is I hate it I hate it so much there's nothing good about watercress dude with cauliflower is the texture first of all and secondly you do have to refine you put palate and not you know destroy it every weekend we like in and out burgers and salty freaky stuff like that right now Eddie in-n-out burgers in vegas and i was actually quite mad I was really hoping for an in-n-out burger and I have to tell you I have to tell you this is a little side one of us that's a little anymore well a little side to the digression okay but one of our UK writers was crazy enough and I know who's been talking to him but I will find out but he was crazy enough on the last day in Las Vegas to walk 45 minutes to the nearest in and out joint to have one of those burgers yeah because he was towed that is so very good he couldn't miss out on it I'm waiting for the part that sounds unreasonable yeah okay all i know is that i have to be back in vegas for ctia in May so Oh God whoo into now it's gonna be like top of my list yesyes him uh but i was thinking of any i go back to stuff we're we're gonna be back in barcelona for mobile world congress all new venue at siena finality that is exciting yeah I am I leaks are starting to come out and the HTC m7 flagship we had a it was basically it was like a render from a demo video or something and I've got a link wrong in our show notes so I can't look at it right now but it looks like like take the back of an iphone add an extra grill to it and like may get the front of the all right I don't get how people I guess because of the two-tone design people are saying it looks like an iphone it doesn't look anything like an iPhone to me it does oh I'm looking at it again look at the look at the ridge look at how it's like just a square with the round right over it looks like it looks like an EVO flank able to eat you know it looks like it looks like an iphone uh yeah it does then it is two-tone and it's also the proportions of the bits which are to each other the shape is an EVO 4G LTE to me you're trying too hard man just just look at it how big is we supposed to be on this m7 device 4.7 I think 1080p ahhh kill me kill me now I give up you know listen if glad did you know that you got a shout-out on John goobers last podcast talking about why nobody seems to want to make a flagship four-inch screen phone yeah somebody tweeted at me about that on Twitter absolutely say that anyways looking at this render uh okay you know I phone look like or not if the final product is anything like that that would imply that is a really small border around the display and a really small bezel and that could be really cool right yeah so a small footprint maybe now i can't wait for HTC to release another piece of awesome hardware hobli with middling software and have nobody care because Samsung spends almost a billion dollars on well not matter how much I actually spend they spend millions upon millions upon millions of dollars on marketing like I don't know how HTC wins at this point I mean if they keep I mean that the One X was great the one XL was a nice spec bump and this thing looks like it's going to be cool and compelling an awesome and I i mean i'm sorry i wish that it would make it a dent but i'm afraid it's not gonna how many HTC commercials was DC on TV 0 he's i see you know you see a couple here and there like when a device first hits the market but you see samsung commercials all the time all day long for like all of their flagship devices so you guys don't need to worry about that because peter chao is promised he's gonna spend more marketing because he's convinced that human markets a 4.7 inch foam which sends hard enough people are going to bite other than germs people would do this wrong but oh that's a lot right well if he's right then it's time to bring out the napalm because people ok seriously I'm giving HTC advanced warning if I'm the guy who gets his hands on this 4.7 inch device the first thing I'm going to say is he is HTS latest phone is too big end of story it just is no and you know what I'm gonna go Eagles remarkably small what if like they manage to you won't plays a 4.7 inch display it just fits physics right it is the same reason we don't have you know an f 1.4 lens which is the size of a coin right it's physics you can't get around it is it a and I will completely avoid sounding like a fanboy for any other and I'll give you guys the perfect counter example the HTC one sv yeah like first of all because of HTC's still confused branding you don't know what the device looks like because you're not really sure which of the 1-series it is but what I can tell you I mean come on be honest you don't like maybe you guys do but most people be like one sv let me look that up and then I'll know what's up yeah um it's a 4.3 inch Super LCD to display its supposed recent one yet it just came out on ee with LTE here in the UK and this imagine it's on cricket here Lee was right and it has a flame red back cover and smacks it looks so good it looks so good and you know eric lin who works at HTC one of our good friends he was saying now that you guys have the one as we in your hands you can tell what i mean about it being the best design HD since the nexus one that's what he recently tweeted on Twitter and I think I think he has a point I don't know that I necessary with him a hundred percent but it feels good in the hand it feels like it's the right size sense feels like sense which is bad but the size of it is right okay the 4.3 inch size the form factor is right it could be slimmer it could be you know it could have high quality materials you could have more things that can play a flagship device but it's so much better like it does remind me of the One X in terms of its as I say here in UK it's white is the matte white recover and you remastered the One X but it feels like the One X in you know much more palatable proportions yeah it just fits it so it makes so much more sense to me it's as if I expect that it's wvga right i mean that i do also feel as much as as much grief as i'm getting to these companies i do you feel like if they want a headline-grabbing display they have to go to 4.7 inches because they can't get those 720p days that well i was at something that's sitting back at the point that i'm a library yes it's that well yeah it's they're doing a pretty decent job of it it's not quite 720p is a little over or something it was making us we ended up giving we need to stop giving these companies credit engineering credit for building big ass phones because it's easier I think at this game than building something that's directly competitive with the iPhone the iPhone ism a marvel of design and packing stuff into a tiny form factor and you know it's just like you can build a big huge phone with a big huge screen well of course you can because you've got more space to work with try and do it smaller see what see what you can do and then exactly HTC is capable of it if you look at the the the original ones though or the windows phone 8x has a 4.3 inch 720p display it's not a massive bulky count it's a little too square it could be a little more ergonomic but it's thin it's light you know I would love to see an android phone and HTC's line up with those that hardware but and this episode the resound which also has no point for you 720p right now you're just rollin man yeah have you held the recipe oh those like you're tough each other The Rose money i'm totally on board with what he just said like if you're going for yet another big phone you're playing it safe and if HTC looks around guys like nokia and blackberry the one thing it shouldn't be doing is playing it safe because that's what Nucky and blackberry did for years okay i know this for a fact because years and years ago 23 years ago when i was to writing for a gadget it was the case that every single article that criticizes nokia being sluggish in embracing touch screens no keep being slow in rolling out an updated touch-friendly symbian people like look at nokia's market share their fine right nokia took way too long played it way too safe rim mike lazaridis jim balsillie they're way too cocky and arrogant about their market share to wait too long still taking way too long until this freak blackberry 10 thing happens right played it way too safe until now that when a desperate I don't think HTC should carry on waiting like this and other thing is you just carry on doing the same thing because it isn't working out so just freaking do it like if HTC needs to make a loss on displays but give us an amazing 4.3 inch device I think you should do it just to get some of that competitors back against answer because at the moment the way things are shaping up I mean Samsung and selling phones like crazy yes building up a brand cachet it's making itself insular from the rest of the other brands and people are starting to really associate with the Samsung brand more so than with Android nowadays I mean not entirely good you know people like it's a samsung phone which messes you know and they anticipate an ex galaxy they're everywhere I just love a loved one one of us makes a point and the other people have nothing to disagree with we just kind of weight from the trail off because we have nothing to jump in and say no no you're wrong yeah well just to add to his point seems like did announce I think just this week that there's they sold 100 billion galaxies family phones and twice as many galaxies threes as 22 so you know they're out there and and every time I travel I always notice you know on the plane say what people are using and what or if I want to train what look the ways they're using and like it used to be years ago is all blackberrys on a plane then it's all iphones and now it's like as many iphones as i see i see various samsung devices and different colors and stuff like that so the one thing i don't see our HTC devices oh yeah so yeah I mean Samsung has been just not how how the Galaxy Note became a success I still don't know and now the guys you know to is just yet another success it's just kind of crazy just exactly what I'm saying the only way you can counter that the only way you can counter that is to be as aggressive and is bonkers as Samson like HTC tried I mean before the Galaxy Note do something very close in the HD file just that he was so crazy first you mention the Razon now you bring up the flyer you're really bringing up all of HTC's hits uh so the thing is that goes back to we were talking about rim how it's it's appearing that rim is going to be able to get its device on all four carriers at the same time HTC has not done that yet it has yet to have a similar device or very close device on all four carriers at the same time samsung started that with the galaxy s2 with minor variants and then the galaxy s3 blew it out and then the note 2 blew it out where every carrier a major carry in the u.s. pretty much wants to have that device on their phone their their lineup and they're not insisting on dry dramatically altering it if you look at hcc in say twenty twelve they had the 1x come out on 18 teen but then it was a totally different device on sprint verizon still doesn't really have anything except it until the droid DNA which was again a totally different device later in the year um and so there's a lot of things that HTC has to do if it wants to mimic samsung and that's just one one part of it as I trail off man we'd we're we don't even need to talk about the other crap that we've got on our list I mean uh we'll see what HTC mobile world congress is HTC show right I don't know like I don't I don't know if it's like it's a show that HTC doesn't speak stuff I don't know HTC owns overruled Congress they did the 1x last year so yeah and one series actually I don't think we're gonna see Samsung try and do anything huge there I think there are people just gonna let HTC have their have their day in the Sun and hopefully they'll manage to eeka a couple of weeks out of it once they do I don't I mean we've had a bunch of t mobile news that you know the CEO said that the subsidies are going to end in three or four months and just amazing quotes about him going after 80s crap network in New York and even like even making fun of horizon um you know will you know will track and see how tmobile does but basically at this point I'm just super excited that t-mobile has a rap arouser in charge they just love saying crazy stuff totally i'm totally in agreement with that yes and also i didn't know what this guy looked like until i saw some pictures from our coverage of CES appearance he's amazing and the way he was dressed in that series together like he dresses like jimmy iovine yeah i mean i'd like sequins on his jacket and then there was this brightly brightly colored big tee t-shirt underneath I was like that's the CEO is the cap yeah yeah to do was out there but uh listen compared to previously yeses where we were like which CEO has a best mustache and we'll the verizon agency competition in the chat sparkling cyanide says he looks a little bit like Willem Dafoe he's like a crazy CEO version of Willem Dafoe I totally see it yeah I got he's like he's like the Green Goblin from the first spider-man movies but large of a company so like as far as like the scale of CEOs you've got you've got a Dan Meade from verizon who's like super straight-laced suit and tie every appearance and ralph de la Vega and ETTs again super straight lace and then then you step down to dan hesse from sprint who will you notate loosen his tie and well you dress please step down because even when dan hesse is on a lower step he's still towers above the other guys because 18 feet tall yeah yeah he's he's physically tall but like he'll take his jacket off and he's known to open his shirt up and loosen up and though and then you've got t-mobile who's just like III don't even know how to describe straight cash permanently inebriated that might be a good one who actually is it isn't it fun though that the way that I got I got the way they covered those Dust Bowl stage with LTE i think is admirable like man I'm so actually it is admirable that they that you can go in the middle of nowhere in America and get LTE on horizon like that's actually like I I honestly think he was complimenting verizon there like like he went between this like flip flop you would like say that it's a beautiful work and it's really great and he loves it and then he would say something like uh once you start to watch porn on your phone your your shared data plans just gonna go evaporate so i think i think the Dust Bowl comment was on the flip of the positive I saw more honesty on a match com ad than 18 tease coverage maps Wow come on how'd you down love this guy yeah I was just gonna say is it's kind of amusing and fun that the two underdog networks in the US actually have the two most likable CEOs yeah among carries and actually among even if you include the Vice way because nobody's as amusing as you know dan has he and this crazy new tmobile guy I mean honestly like from among the CEOs I would say Jensen Kwan from Nvidia is the only one who comment always always CEOs is a bunch of fun he he just he doesn't care he lets it rip I meetings piece on China nobody matches monster CEO so oh my god don't even so I should get connect can I put us back to mwc because a little way too early i'm not even healthy from CES yeah yeah go ahead no I mean doesn't think we're way too early to be previewing mwc but I do you feel like now that he'll say yes it's also kind of a relatively timely time to assess how companies are going to strategize i mean i agree with you GT insofar as i think samsung is going to repeat a strategy from last year which is pull back from mwc with flagship announcements do its own event and again repeat the successful strategy of having no connectivity wherever that event happens so then you have me sitting in the front row having spent three hours trying to get into the event and time and just getting to g and texting ppl updates about the magician on stage and samsung's crazy crazy presentations but you know aside from those guys yes HTC is going to try and blow out the event LG didn't really bring anything special to see you so they're gonna try and have something major and LG said beautybaby during its gonna be the view too I'm telling you right now well they said during their the presidency yes where they're like trotting out the intuition and talking about how great it was consumed any people love that they specifically said stay tuned at mwc we'll have our big moment they already had the optimus G like they they they completely dominated what was even there at the last UK and like it's at the base of the nexus 4 like if they are gonna try and like out Optimus G the optimus g one I don't know what specs they put in there wouldn't be completely ridiculous and to like you know they didn't nail the optimus G what I don't have a whole lot of faith that they're going to nail the next thing I mean don't get me wrong compared to LG from a couple years ago they're hitting they're firing on all cylinders right but it's still I mean that's damning with faint praise because we're comparing to what they used to be firing on all cylinders and moving backwards well I mean lot last year whatever G did and I know you remember this fondly dita is they did a deluge of phones mm-hmm and I remember fondly because you had to take pics affirmative as the l3 l5 II l7 vol.9 the online and like there there there were four other 4x HD you forgot about that one and then there was a 3d phone as well whatever that was that was the the optimus 3d too right yeah yeah thanks like I basically like had a spreadsheet and life like you know what gets grouped together what is with an actual flagship it was it was a huge pain yeah I mean big carbon bombed the show with phones it was nuts I i hope i'm not i'm not sure it's a hope that we justify but I hope they try and streamline that and they focus in on a couple of devices I mean even if they do three but they segmenting properly so you have an entry-level phone mid-range at a high end and I am that is just just like that's it or the HTC one strategy that they did last year right yeah right I mean it just makes more sense to me I don't India at the same time I can saying that but then Samsung successful strategy has been the carpet bombing approach as well you know when they say hundred million Galaxy devices that's galaxy s one galaxy s doing what Samsung dodos I mean they carpet bomb but they only put their muscle behind the gs3 and a little bit of note right yeah yeah and then the rest is trickle down it's trickle-down economics man yeah I mean who knew economics I'm just wondering like it kind of feels like this is a limited number of companies who will make a big splash at mwc because Sony made a special experience Z 0 z all right your zebra what I hopefully I mean if we don't hear anything before at mwc hopefully uh Sony will announce some carrier partnerships for that but I can't imagine them to announce another flagship device right so it kind of stuck motorola doesn't ever do anything at mwc yeah it'd be nice if that changed yeah i don't know if i see that happening i really don't ok there's no k i guess i guess if there's one thing to be intrigued about yeah so HTC will do obviously an android flagship they'll probably do yet another Windows Phone device I'm guessing but Nokia there has been the Lumia 920 replacement rumor way down aluminum or aluminium baton on a minion construction so that could be interesting you know going back to the n8 / e7 designs way back in the day will be fresh hardware could be good yeah I can see no I i I'm betting that Nokia wants to save something super flagship for a separate on their own event but I don't know we'll see I'm running out of steam how about you guys I don't think I've got the energy to talk about ridiculous Apple China rumors that it came out and then were immediately debunked yeah no can yeah I say cheese yea though there's Billy something maybe who knows who cares still some kind phone china I mean who knows okay well if okay if we can dedicate like a couple of minutes to Apple I just want to make mention of the ipod touch and I was really random but I I played around with my probably my foots ipod touch he's got he's got one of those most obscure device in the world go 64 gigabyte ipod touch ah he still feels really good about buying you should it's great most people think is crazy they double-fist with it he uses whatever phone which i think he usually uses a windows phone and then he actually liked for apps he carry around his ipod touch that's right he's going to Lumia 920 so uses Lumia 920 foots phone and the ipod touch for what is absent apple stuff but the thing is I actually really love the design of that freaking thing is great yeah gorgeous I feel like that you can click in and out which is what I did one afternoon in the trailer to just SAT there pressing the button on Sam's ipod touch I was in front of the iphone no no for the loop the the button on the back of it that's like right there that was like to open to put the loop in you know you like double click it I don't know it's just very satisfying to click OK did I didn't know about that I didn't notice it but I seriously this is new design and the curvature of the back and in the sides is so much friendlier for holding it in the hand I mean the first thing is is thinner than the iphone right in the air phone but the curvature of it and the feel of it in the hand is just much better in my opinion and I was thinking if apple's next big redesign for the iphone is to bring it in line with our design maybe notice then because he has have a bigger battery has have LTE and those things uh i would be quite content with that like i'll consider that significant upgrade what do you guys think i agree sorry i got distracted by links not your fault but I completely agree with everything you just said you give me the thumbs-up been nice yes well anyway and that now that Apple has our design ideas I'm sure they're listening as well Tim Cook has emerged yes Knesset its know that they watched the virtual show yeah I mean it's awesome under the apple podcasts app came out just for the Virgin Mobile show say God that app is the worst I hate it so hard and and also it's known that if you want to find a village Bhogle show on iTunes you have to look in the blue genre I think that was a mistake for CES we don't know that we're sorry sorry about that I think that was appropriate weight we tend to lose most of the time anyway you know I think I think it was appropriate for that show that we shot because we were enjoying some libations and just jamming to some blues yeah that friends is the ridge mobile show thank you so much for watching to listening those talk about vegetables and two trailing off so that we can crash and die in our beds if you want to follow us on twitter you can and should i'm back on Gladys lad Sabbath chris is DC seifert with Annie I chris sigler he's already dead in his bed is e power and we're all at verge and we've got the sdcc food by the way Chris how did I screw that up I flip that butter yeah we're tired goodbye everybody thanks so much for watching and we'll we'll be back next week when I was maybe possibly later bye