Gadgetory

this is episode 50 the big 50 and I just saw that we went on air presumably you heard my introduction but maybe you didn't we'll see it's it's a good times I'm dieter bohn I'm glad Sabbath i'm dan seifert and i'm chris sigler and don't you guys noticed but something happened yesterday the entire world changed again forever again I'm excited about watch dogs to dieter it's not just year uh yesterday was an insane crazy horrible ridiculous day we had Microsoft keynote we of course had WWDC and then we had a sony keynote later in the evening and i believe we also like something else happened and i just lost it it was it was a crazy crazy day um we are all being electronically monitored now which yes ah we are being electronically monitored well Jenna team core where of it now he's been going on for beautiful right while right good point well if you believe the government you know we mean Dan and Chris should be fine it's flat who should be worried because he's a foreign national right and if you need the government this is all perfectly legal to a foreign national a dangerous that can bid it has to be said actually really i really hope that there is a secret court order explicitly requiring that the NSA be allowed to monitor the virgin mobile show like not just one we're on air but like the off air part like they can they can tap into that i hope that there is an actual documents they they can they can monitor us positioning our cameras and microphones yeah and complaining about hangouts yeah we're duly fascinating lives oh but actually to what to what diesel was saying how often does it happen that we have simultaneous Apple and Microsoft events not nice yeah yeah the fact that they were overlapping is really messed up for priotiy I mean so this is like a trend that we've been going on to with these companies they've been moving their events closer and closer and closer together like a few years ago there'd be a couple months apart then a couple weeks apart and then in the past year or so it seems like back to back to back every company would have events we tweak tweak and now they're like on the same day and overlapping and before you know it you know we're going to have events all at the exact same time all at once every company in the industry will just have a one-hour press conference on a designated day simultaneously this fall the fall events are all going to happen on the same day at one p.m. eastern goog is going to announce Android 4.3 and apple announced the new iPhones and Microsoft will announce Windows Phone 8 and Rob well there is actually a big industry secret behind this which is that in spite of our efforts happening in internet forums and web publications to try and stir up conflict between these companies the truth is that all these people actually love one another Google employees Apple employees Microsoft people they live one out in the Hangout physically in the real world and they go on holidays together so obviously you know you get the event done and then you go on holiday so they have to synchronize events that's that's pretty smart that's uh I like that take I mean agent secret is that people actually get along it's not yet that is actually I mean I think there's a lot of truth to that but uh you know I I I don't think I mean yes yesterday sucked from a news coverage perspective the fact that you know we had at the xbox one event overlapping with the beginning of WWDC both of which are obviously huge events but there's there's some separation in the fact that one is very very heavily videogame oriented the other one is Apple if it had been WWDC and say the first day keynote of google i/o overlapping or you know the Windows Phone 9 intro overlapping that would be much more of a doomsday scenario it still was was tough don't get me wrong and I'm sure was tough for for readers to who are trying to like keep up on two major pieces of news and two major live blog simultaneously but it could have been worse yeah so fortunately we have some very excellent everything you need to know posts for each event and I mean let's just I mean come on let's just talk about apple and nothing but apple for the rest of our lives because everything changed again again drew everything changes for the better or for the worse is the fact that a lot of these to keep saying this talk about apple and then doesn't want to talk about for because it's like I just don't want to start okay so yeah iOS 7 uh there's just there's so much to talk about we've put up a bunch of a post on it last bit of thoughts Josh to put up thoughts we've got man just just I don't even order to start let's start with it just the high-level it like it looks different it's the flat design but that sort of flatness I don't know it doesn't seem to come through for me well because I'm looking at the icons and I just can't get over it they're just so ugly like some are and some ons I think right which one is ok tell me because I'm looking at the home screen right now and I good compass notes phones okay videos we seriously just gonna bring down every single icon well the cognate one is cool now then right actually tix yeah but actually my cook is it well it showed gmt where is she showing pretty something anyway um a lengthening look screen actually and but then the big issue for everyone seems to be that it's inconsistent and we have to remember that this is to just to be the Beta Beta Beta Gamma whatever is still you know the pre-release software and it's intended only for developers so we shouldn't be judging it as something that just been released or brand new device that's the first thing to say so inconsistent is inconsistencies kind of to be expected but I like the cleaner lock screen I don't like the fact that the slide to unlock bit kind of invites you to slide up words whereas you want to be sliding uh to the right and there's only a very subtle animation you know the little elimination of the slide to unlock which we write on the left to the right and I just way too subtle most people just aren't going to pick up a hint well it does give you some sort of thing when you try and slide up that no no you should go a different direction like end it and write it is possible to juice you can slide across from anywhere on the screen now you only what it follow that step path what is that text anymore what is that arrow supposed to indicate as a control center is that letter indicates control center and then there's an arrow at the top of the lock screen to indicate Notification Center yeah so I could see I mean I think there are a lot of subtleties I mean we have to keep in mind a couple things one this is a really fundamental redesign that by all appearances was turned around in the few months and Scott Forstall left yeah to this is Johnny eyes first shot at south where to sign he is a noob when it comes to sell for design and three like Vlad was pointing out we have a few months before release and I think a lot of these things are probably gonna get ironed out I suspect that by the time we see a commercial release of iOS 7 there going to be a lot of nuances subtle nuances that have changed from the first beta that would be my guess yeah I mean they're they're subtle nuances and there's like really guys you didn't hear anybody complain about these things and I'm like like do we know what notification toasts look like are they gonna go they did talk about them I don't think they showed him know and judging from talked about this in our post WWDC show with Ross yesterday I'm concerned that notification center which was one of my biggest complaints not from iOS 6 from from what we've seen of it it doesn't look like it's changed enough to me it's it looks like it's basically the same notification center which is completely useless in its current form right well I mean they they added tabs right so there's a today view there's an all of you and then I think there's a unread or something view I mean miss that's because yeah I mean the today which is kind of weird because every notification you haven't yet see in a second kid missed no no this well Mary good and I've seen like rather than minute fix dismissing notifications they just gave you another tab where like you just go to look that's right that's right i mean everybody complains about the fact that is a timely 2x that you need to be specific to try and nail down and then once you do that there's a second secondary challenge where you have to tap it again to clear clear the stuff away well what blows my mind is that throughout the interface apples added all these swiping gestures they've you know you swipe up for control center you still swipe down from the notification center there's a new back gesture that you swipe back which is very reminiscent of other platforms which i'm sure we'll talk about but in Notification Center they didn't like the most logical thing to do with these notifications is swipe across them just like Nike do a nandroid to clear them out and they didn't seem to enable that or write an absolute event X appleby much invented a whole idea of swiping away to delete things I remember that from using its mail client yeah years ago so although classically Apple's model has been two steps right swipe and then press the button right so right you don't do it accidentally but if it's a notification you know you can pretty safely swipe it away you know your data is not disappearing you're not deleting an email you're not bleeding a message it's just deleting the notification so right that would make so much more sense in that scenario than the stupid little X that everyone seems to hate yeah I'm relatively happy with control center I mean I will say that like that the idea that they separated out controls from multitasking so instead of having this stuff scurried away to the left of the multitasking area they just need a whole separate panel for it you know it's it's fine like it it looks super tacked on to me it's a little bit weird like what they chose and like there's like square buttons at the bottom and big circle buttons at the top like they stuck everything in there that I would want although i will see if airdrop is actually useful or not the concept of control center is great and i think that the fact that they separated out both from notification center and from the multitasking screen kind of sets them apart from other platforms in a meaningful way but what would struck me on stage was that control center I mean the whole platform looks like weirdly uh what's worth a million for like under designed or like unfinished basically but Control Center takes the cake like it literally looks like a wireframe like giant it's opened like Adobe Illustrator and drew some lines is like this is the basic idea for what I want and then they just that's what they ran with and it's not alone in that respect Chris if you look at safari for iOS it has some really I mean absolutely abstract icons going on if you look at the bookmarks icon and tabs icon they're just kind of squarish shapes with lines going through them like they're almost impossible to interpret I you have to basically tap them see what happens and then remember okay this is my bookmarks it's this is the issue that I had really is the fact that although the skeuomorphic look has always looked outdated or at least you know for the past couple years has looked outdated and I'm fashionable and all of that stuff the new ultra-modern look does look really slick and sharp but isn't this intuitive for people and you know you're gonna hand this to somebody who isn't all that proficient in using smartphones and they're gonna start scratching the head whereas the older icons might've look Celia the might have looked more childish but they're just things that people will be able to see and recognize and I think that's a loss in just basic usability but but I should to bring back to the control center let's give up a credit because I've gotten quite a bit of heat for not giving up or credit so i think i should do that in order to preserve my life over the next few days and let's give a credit photo control center because those are quick settings integrals that we've been asking for for I know do they really deserve credit though I mean people have literally been asking for that since the first version of iphone OS it's been a jailbreak tweak for years and it's like the most logical thing because people want to constantly toggle their bluetooth and Wi-Fi and airplane mode and all this other stuff I know I constantly do it when I'm using iphone and I have to dive into the settings app or have to use the old style multitasking ios6 to jump to the Settings app and it like why did it take so long to put such a logical useful feature into the platform ok so what do what are the toggles to the bottom it's it's like flashlights calculator camera and lock o'clock yeah yeah like you set your alarm that makes absolutely no sense and it doesn't look like these are customizable either so you can't put your favorite apps there right so but so like these shortcuts at the bottom or what are just surreal to me like it's like when you hang when you put in a custom widget on Android and like oh you know what I want the camera I'm going to stick that in there but and flashlight like I guess there's no place else to put it and that's another one of those things that get stuck on the android widgets in the notification center or on a homescreen widget like you know you want to build such a time a lot but like or set your alarms but it's just like they just like took a stab at the things that people want to access frequently and just the room down there and calculator really I mean maybe those are the things people access frequently all the things people have the least patients when they want to access them or the least tolerance for delay Ryan maybe that was apples premise yeah Alice made a really interesting point yesterday which is that the calculator which is one of many many apps that was redesigned in OS 7 was originally designed to look like a really famous braun calculator from right via late seventies early eighties I believe there's a reissue now if you want to buy it but you know it I don't know if it's actually a dieter Rams design but it's it's a you know it's very classic like Bauhaus style design and that what's interesting is that that calculator and other products in bronze line at that time and even today we're designed around the principle of you know as little design as possible and now they've gone away from that made it even simpler I mean it's literally just the buns are just like monochrome squares now right I think in seven and it's so it's like they've it looks like Windows Phone styler yeah so it yet yes it does so they've gone away from from a calculate from mimicking a calculator that was designed specifically to espouse the principles that they're obviously trying to achieve with iOS 7 which is ironic what do you guys think of the incredible ubiquitous use of transparency and semi transparency and the Gaussian blur to on a bunch of the overlays everything has got like well okay first of all there's a parallax effect on the home screen so the wallpaper moves there's a there's a transparency on the keyboard so you can kind of see some stuff behind the keyboard it's a little blurred out it's on control center it's on notification center there seem to be some other random things that have been like transparency on them if you put a gun to my head and said you know we're going to give you linen or we're going to give you transparency uh I guess I would take transparency but as a lot of people have been pointing out there's been a lot of developers who downloaded the the beta and have been using it and things like that ah this transparency can cause a lot of issues with usability because the out what the problem is and if you look at the screenshots of control center everything is monochromatic on that transparency layer so if you open it up in front of say something with a dark background all of a sudden all of your controls become very difficult to see or almost invisible which is like totally counterintuitive um if if there were some maybe some color added to it or some depth of some sort added to the top layer um that that gave you some definition to those buttons especially in control center that might help mitigate the issue but I mean it's not like completely transparent you know right i don't think i've seen any literal translations but the problem is all translations it's translucent but it's uh it's dependent on the background of the app that you swipe it up so like if you are on the home screen and you're using that stock wallpaper that seems to be with a lot of like greens and blues and things like that you have this you swipe it up and you've got this transparent layer that's got a lot of greens and blues in it but if you are on say like Safari or you're in the new calendar app which is like red and white you're you swipe off that layer and it's like mostly white with you know the text on top of it if the exact opposite happens if you're on a black an app that has mostly dark backgrounds or a black background God the eyes are so ugly you guys it's not ideal and just a pie along with you with you then there was another issue which I which I've forgotten just think about the threats of people again where do we meet for criticize an apple too much for which already should point out I don't hate Apple no google nor Microsoft I'm just kind of a dick to everybody so so it's kind of equal opportunity hating yeah um now that there was another point which is the weather wrap the weather app got massively redesigned also the calendar I've got redesigned a whole bunch of the basic applications or redesigned whether we're pleased it's all yours but i just want to point out with the weather app that um the font is Helvetica knew it i think is the one that's being young is universally no it doesn't have a shadow on OA oh right that's that's part of the problem like in control centers like none of these buttons have shadows so none of them have depth so you know it's just a line of text and if there is something conflicting behind it you lose would it feel the flat design would suffer Macbeth well this isn't really flat design though that's saying I'm completed there's lack of depth I they do get credit for thinking through what the layers are in a way that wasn't there before when you multitask there was there the old way was it like gave you this little bar underneath and so you had the sex there's a thing hiding beneath it and then I believe like notifications that are like felt like I was coming out on front it was it was a little bit weird and now it's like there's very clear layers there's your wallpaper behind everything there's icons and then a nap and then on top of that can be either control center or notification center and it's just like those are the four layers and your stuff like when you multitask you know where you're going in that like hierarchy when you pull down Notification Center you know where that is on that hierarchy II and like that design it's not like a it's not necessarily a functional change because it's just you know you're still pulling swiping something down to hit a widget you're still swiping something up to hit a button whatever but it does give you a better sense of like here's where i'm at right now and i would i would say that nobody else since webos has done that i hate to be the guy I cuz I'm that guy who talks about webos but like you look at Windows Phone I feel lost in windows phone all the time I really do and I don't know why but like the back button behaviors a little bit weird just like everything everything on windows phone is so flat and so similar looking you never really feel like you're like I'm in this thing now and I know that this thing exists in relation to those other things and same with Android although Android you know it's a little bit simpler but you've got you know the multi-tasking menu that pops up and it's fine but but this has got us like a hierarchy and a system to its UI elements that does make a lot of sense well I think that's driven in part by the fact that iOS devices still have just one physical button right like right in and just introducing the concept of a back button to a platform automatically throws you into all these weird philosophical discussions about UX that you don't have to have an iOS because that button doesn't exist so okay I metrowest multitasking now is a proper you know the way the windows phone does it the way that sense 5 did it it's just you know you hear your screenshots and you can swipe between them and her aides what's funny is how much crap we gave HTC for doing this two cents for I mean HTC decided to like turn them and make them 3d and all this other extraneous nonsense ah but it's essentially the same system you know you get a look it looks the most to me it looks the most like Windows felt the way Windows Phone does it yeah yeah i mean i guess like what just mishaps in that multitasking overview is just trade up web was like they're all blowing that from what will s yeah yeah great and you know i think part about webos which is that you could have multiple windows / app and you could stack them together in cards right yeah but i think you know there's been a lot of discussion about how much Apple has taken inspiration from other platforms we had a big design piece on that that went up earlier today and how it's really using elements from virtually all four of the major platforms we've been talking about between Android Windows Phone webos and blackberry 10 but for me at least it feels like this is the most inspired by webos just because the multitasking webos was the first to use these translucent layers that I can remember webos had all of these great uh out of focus boca backgrounds and things like that all over the place which is very prevalent in Iowa 7 and you know became prevalent in Android later on but it just feels like Apple was tapping into jon rubinstein and webos ideas Matthias I Matthias yeah yeah can we can we talk for a minute can we can we please talk for a minute about this the signal meter oh yes yeah actually can I can I finish up like this is actually an actual like new function that we need to talk about with multitasking just so we can wrap multitasking um because like they were very few like here's a new thing that you can do I was Casey was telling me about this I pointed at him he's right over there that there was there was very little like here's a brand new thing that you can do with iOS you couldn't do before like we had it was you know Siri can do talk to talk to you in different voices and airdrop and you know whatever but multitasking they added a new thing where they will let apps update in the background which is like s final huge yeah but there's some weird language around like we know which apps you use most often and we know when you use them and so that's when they get to update in the background so my guess is that like apps will be able to request to get background updates and then iOS will let them like on the hour whatever the timing is when they're going to do all their batch data stuff and I'm guessing but I don't know I'm guessing if they're smart what they're doing is if you don't if you don't open an app for like two days or something iOS is like you know this app wants background updates but this user totally doesn't so you're cut off until you get opened again well I know that on something good on stage they said that push notifications could trigger the background updating so if you get a push notification say say you know this is enabled for the gmail app and you get a push notation for email that will trigger the app to go into the background and hopefully update your inbox so that when you open it the email is there just like it is with the native mail app which is one of the biggest complaints with any third party email app on iOS is that you get a notification and then you open it and then you have to refresh it and you have to wait to see your message actually show all right you can't send email as your default email app of course no and you still can't in seven yeah there's no they didn't they didn't announce any sort of third-party becoming defaults with it's a third-party keyboard or third-party email app or third-party browser or whatever well nevermind default there's no indication that you can even install a third-party keyboard in seven yet right I mean that they're they're probably my guess they do this every year is you know when they announced say the new iPad Mini or the iphone 5s or six or whatever it's called there will probably be one or two quote unquote surprises and I seven I was trying to figure out what it was last year and I couldn't remember i know that in i was five the surprise was Siri because Siri was dependent on the iphone 4s is hardware so that had to launch and then Syrian launched with it when the hardware launch which was after iOS 5 was initially unveiled at WWDC and I couldn't offer life of me last night think of what it was in iOS 6 so unless you guys are enlightened I know it was something i don't i don't know if it was passbook maybe I can't remember I know wasn't passbook there what what hardware requirements were in like what what what other than LTE the iphone 5 doesn't really have any hardware advantage over the oven fluorescence yeah I can't think of what it would what it was I don't know if the top of my head mmm yeah what is bigger display but that's all right I mean the big was played but I guess that could be it because you know iOS 6 I just support the right larger describe intriguing thing about I seven is actually that series seems to have switched over to Bing for research results yes well Siri is you've always it's always used whatever your default was right so if you set Bing to your default search engine in Safari Siri would have used that but now in iOS 7 apparently you can't change that and it's only set a bit mmm I don't think that the former it defaults to Bing but yeah yeah well i don't i don't know i mean maybe but you know apparently it pulls in search results in a much more formatted way than it did before it used to be that it would just kick you out to Safari when you do like a web search and now they're they're formatted within Syria itself so yeah so Chris wants to talk about the the dots that are used for sharing and I just want to say before we get into this I'm very angry because one in order to look at the dots I'm now looking again at the icons on the home screen and they're so ugly some thanks for that Chris you're welcome ok so the dots whatever actually no I think it was somebody at cult of mac dug up one of the old prototypes from the patent trial the samsung patent trial that we saw like really early prototypes of the iphone and one of them was like a wooden block with a piece of paper pasted onto it and it had basically candy color icons and these five dots for signal strength really this is what Johnny I've wanted from the beginning and like I'm serious it's totally hilarious like it's you know it opened whatever but like Chris go talk about the dots I mean I'm not want you to say about five dots I I have a lot to say about these dogs um so this is I mean this is a perfect example of Johnny I've meddling like this is something it isn't a design element like the bars are like international I like to add Aaron from the Virgin has just said that the signal meter is the greatest thing to happen to signal meters since signal leaders were invented it will aaron i am going to auggie errands corn as soon as chris is finished the a lot but please allow me to finish okay absolutely that these like they are an international standard everybody's gonna let you finish thanks Kanye but Apple just vented the best signal bar ever well I mean and look that's great if every time you want to know your signal strength you want to count the number of dots that it's showing but don't like you're not counting balls no you're not because each bar is a different size it's communicating more information to you just by virtue of its existence with this your only indication of signal strength is the number of dots that's the first thing the second thing is that like I said this is not a design element it's like a fundamental like a globally understood thing that it wasn't in jony ive's place to redesign it was like when Nokia came out with that ridiculous 3650 with it with the circular digit keypad and everyone's like no give this isn't cool remember that and and then never again did nokia attempt that that keypad layout because people were like this is stupid you just come out with a regular numeric in fact they they rereleased that same phone with a regular keep at it was such a failure and and so i think what's going to happen I could be completely wrong but I would not be surprised if by the time I os7 came to market they were like oh wait are bad this is stupid and then they just went back to the same old signal in no Charles Chris no jobs not listen all the little design tweaks and things that have kind of changed for changes sake because let's face it the loss of Shadows under the font is just a choice it's a design choice a good one well then and I would argue that sometimes it isn't like honestly you can't really read the temperatures in the weather rap because they're so thin and white and just don't contrast enough with a blue sky but aside from that the signal or the cellular strength signal bar thingy that is being the same way since the ancient days where you could actually you know the LCDs were so basic that you actually had you know the little shadow of the signal bar on the LCD itself like it's 15 years old 20 years I don't know it's as old as we've had displays on mobile phones and it's always been these bars as collecting upwards the thing is crazy you're saying with apples you look you have to count the dots we don't really have to counter those because of dots are consistent as well right they go from left to right i believe it's not like you get the first filled in before filled in and you have to like scramble your eyes to figure out how many does the rotor screen it's consistent and I think it's just as glanceable I think it's a cute little change and it's one of those um any of those faces a skinning effort like say its context I because you're my cousin how much how much how much space is taken up by yes that's my the hangout but wait wait it takes up more horizontal space right you know what that leaves less space for carrier branding yeah my carrier burning still there okay so like if you're a Verizon or god forbid of motor phone customer 55 dots across and you're connected to Wi-Fi and you've got Vodafone like it's gonna run right into the clock but you know like me and you shoot you should have a carrier whose name is a number because i only have the number 3 i'm gonna my phone it's really stylish although i was in Taipei last week and the carrier name I think it was a Taiwan mobile but I forget but it was massive I knew was Owen well there's enters Far East are Far East tone I don't know if that's the carrier you want anyway is it Taiwanese carrier it was a tiny carrier named far east towne Far East tone at T 0 NE okay so I two things uh first of all I would just like to drive home the point that this is the stupidest thing that Apple has ever done um I'm and you say whatever I you know the Safari icon reminds me of those stupid clocks that have like the dye forget what they're called but they are the dots and yet like do math to figure out the time that's what it reminds me of yeah it's like I would like to point out that Island isn't a winery clock that's none of this it's not this this come on but it's like a for all of this but yeah but dealer to dance point like if they're going to do this why not come up with a creative new way to indicate the time in the status bar to instead of numbers you know why not have like symbols like a I will take your point that like there are standard design elements that aren't that bad that they have just like they've like willfully said no we're not going to use that the the share dialogue that they I think they actually helped pioneer a little arrow coming out um signal strength um there's something else that's like why didn't you just use what everybody else is using there's no hamburger button right they just you know go whatever name named after our own ellis hamburger exactly yep yeah we've we've been trying to like google doesn't call it a hamburger button by the way they call it a hotdog button which is just typical okay i need to i need to have that explained to me actually what was that the three different lines with three line oh yes yes every button so apple doesn't doesn't use that to not in the native apps I mean third party apps yeah yeah I was going to make a serious point in a brief one Apple in the industry design Apple is pressing circular shapes we and the WWDC keynote kicked off with this video which has now become infamous because I complained about it and then people to shut up so I'll shut up about it but here's the point it was a design video and if each of these circles and they were really elegantly transforming into other geometric shapes you saw squares you saw things animations it's all very pretty and and it kind of spoke to the really abstract shapes that I mentioned in so far you know with the squares and straight lines so straight lines are kind of like the secondary bit in circles are the big foreground bit which i think is why we're seeing that new signal strength indicator does anyone mention how ugly these icons are god they're so ugly all right but I like so it's ugly on say that let me just wipe out the point and say I'll be brief about it but the thing is the icons coming to what you're saying they're not circular there's two squirrels but a closer to circular because the radius on the corners is actually uh not as sharp as on as soon as they change the radius and queens yeah so machines razandrich so but like the rod wreck was designed to be the same the same radius or the same you know whatever curve has he ever buddy iphone flores so I I right night someone tweeted this yes and I I can't remember who so I can't give him credit I'm sorry but they put the they took the screenshot from from Apple's website and I put the old Iowa 6 icon next to the Iowa 7 and they measured it and they figured that the six icon had a ten radius 10 pixel radius and then this seven icon had 12 pixel radius and you can see it's also a softer corner on the on the iOS 7 icons that's crazy man that's not it but just just to finish this lab where you try to map the projector but yeah i'm looking on I'm working I'm not giving up hey there's our install what I don't know when I talk in google+ hangouts there is a signal meter of how loud my voice is right above the video looking right out of here I'm gonna point the camera it is good so i can see live dots hey uh huh wow that's pretty amazing maybe that's why though maybe even know how to tell no signal strength maybe it's like how loud you're speaking you think that's it Chris no I'm I'm not participating but Mr is he just enjoys wrap up very briefly I've always emphasizing circles but the very fact that those circles aren't universally visible and you know thing things that you can sense throughout the UI throughout the operating system tells us that everybody is incomplete as a style of saying and it's inconsistent now the best example for doing this kind of thing for me is me go Harwinton from nokia which emphasized again kind of the skwerkel shape so it was really rounded corners on a circle and that was everywhere the app icons were that shape all the little toggles that you could slide left to right with that shape the clock was really fancy when you when you set your alarm but again that shape was just everywhere you looked everywhere throughout the interface it was there any really helped to make the whole thing feel cohesive and that's what I was missing at the moment it's introducing circles here and there is that as devastating alien control center Sam icons flat as they are have circles around them the other ones have squares circles around the page and it just you know those little subtle things people might not sit down and knock them down on the bullet point list but they contribute to whether it always feels cohesive or not and it doesn't feel that way yet so a year ago exactly a year ago I wrote an article saying it's always 73 degrees and sunny was 72 73 degrees basically it's like Apple needs to change up their design so like they've done what I asked them to mostly but there's the thing that I don't get once we get over my complaints about the pastel fluorescent whatever you want to describe them colors in on the icons are just the worst I can't stop talking about it is they they they didn't try and do anything crazy with the homescreen basic they they still actually great I bratz babyz directly address your headline by just removing the temperature poked away but yeah that's exactly right they like say it's that's no longer Sonny because they added a cloud and they took the temperature off like they can put the live clock like accurate clock on there but they still can't give us like just you know and I come with whether the you know there's so they totally no love for the closest thing you get is you can pull a notification center from the home screen now which is cool we still gotta go looking for it you get it today view which you will populate with your calendar and some other the weather and some other stuff but you know there's things that I need to look at relatively often and it would just be nice if I could find a way to do that in this in the system and not go you know jumping in and out of apps or still in and out of appt jumping here yeah and they also apparently went over to Yahoo's campus beat up whoever designed their their weather app threw him in a burlap sack and made them write this iOS and here's what's going to happen in response to what you just said you're gonna get 10 people tweeting at you that there's a yahoo logo on the app to which you will need to respond as I've had to repeatedly over the course less 24 hours the yahoo logo has been on the weather app since iOS one it has nothing to do that just means they're getting the data from yahoo so like putting the actual Yahoo weather app inside iOS so what is very interesting to me is that you know we mentioned earlier how much inspiration has been taken from other platforms but additionally in all the other news yesterday Apple at its wwc every year gives out awards to whoever he thinks designs like the best apps and the three apps that were got these awards were Yahoo weather letterpress and the new Evernote which has a stackable card view and every single one of those apps you can see in iOS 7 you've got yahoo weather is iOS 7 weather letterpress the design elements in letterpress are all over the place in iOS 7 you see them in the dialer you see them in the calendar you see them everywhere and then the evernote with its a stackable card view you see right in the iowa 7 safari browser so it's really kind of funny to me how you know it a polite oaken nod to these other developers while just like whole or you know a ham-handed lee uh stealing their their ideas and shoving them into the OS and i don't know if that's because of the you mentioned the seemingly fast turnaround time from when scott forstall was given the boot and you know iOS 7 was came out if that's why they drew so much inspiration or whatever but I just can't not see that i don't know i don't like they didn't like I don't have a problem taking inspiration you know stealing right it's it's what they do with it and how they you know how they execute on it and there's some hits and like a bunch of mrs. that I wasn't expecting like actually I came up with a marginally clever puns pronouncement on this and I think I think I need to get it out Chris when he was complaining about the signal strength it was essentially saying the old saying just because you can doesn't mean you should but recently well at least well as you can I os7 I was thinking just because you should doesn't mean that you can ha and that's and that's really the point weedeater deters request last year they need to redesign the interface yes they did need to do that but at this point in time again let's reiterate this is not supposed to be out and it's not spoke and it isn't out for consumers it isn't our new devices it is given point in time it isn't ready it isn't good enough but you know months and months of development time can it can turn at least at least in my estimation can turn into more when when we talk about Apple then what we're talking about its competitors yeah particularly since okay OS X 10.9 got announced WWDC as well but the room of the rumors have been that resources have been dedicated to getting iOS finished and done on time and on time is actually you know let's say September time which is when we anticipate in the next iPhone to come out so Apple is fully invested in getting this write-up scratchin and let's also they'll be too critical this isn't another case of maps this is nowhere near as bad as that hmm I agree with you I don't think well we don't know yet we don't know until it's it's you know the final versions out and it's in users hands maps was a mess through all the betas but you can't really say that the final product going to be mess until it actually was a mess um so yeah we're not there yet and like you said Vlad a lot of this could be adjusted and fixed in the next three to four months or whatever that I guess three months that will be seeing betas but I mean am I going to get used to looking at these horrible icons and it's gonna be like oh yeah that's what they look like and like you know I thought it was ugly at first but it turns out like Johnny I was just way more forward-thinking than I am and you know he sees where my tastes are going and and he's going to help me get there is that what's going to happen and when I when I looked these icons today I'm never going to stop talking about these icons when I looked at him today the most frustrating thing would not be able to stop talking about the icons is that I don't have the proper language to describe my feelings about them because I'm not Josh Topolsky and so I just keep trying over and over again anyway what I looked at them today I was like you know maybe they're not as bad as I thought yesterday and I can't decide if that's because they're growing on me or if it's because like my tastes have gotten worse having had looked at them for a day I would actually really like to see iOS 7 against a variety of wallpapers because i think the wallpaper is coloring my opinion of the OS oh you didn't want him to took from android exact loading bubbles yeah exact which which was I believe pulled from what was I was it didn't have a floating bubble oh no they didnt that there was their hacks for active wallpapers I believe but I don't know you mean it actually being active no I just meant that the look of it um yeah and you know the the OS actually apparently changes depending on the wallpaper that you put so if you put a wallpaper that's got more red color and that the OS elements will change no it changes it's sort of like a like the dock and the the status bar they're not translucent like control center Notification Center but they do change their tone based on the colors that are directly adjacent to them and so like if you like your like if you think have your wallpaper as a picture of the beach then your doc will be a brown they'll have a good doc basically uh so are the active wallpapers are our developers going to be able to make active wallpapers or no don't know I just all I know is I saw a wallpaper move yeah there's I believe there's two included with the beta 1 but it's not clear if developers will be able to tap into those ER hmm oak so say I joined a hysterical that Android has had live wallpaper since android 2.1 they viewed on the Nexus 10 and now they just show up in iOS there's some really good ones for android too there's some really good third-party pounds yeah tell me tell me which one because I um I have a parallax one that Apes the don't know if you could see it but it's you see my globe moving you probably can't see it on camera but it does the parallax effect that uh iOS 7 does ok hold on I will get you the name of my there's a papercraft one that is just like paper land pro that's the one enters yep just makes me want to die like no it's too much work yeah that's the 1i you wallpaper that gives me like the weather that looks well no so the latest version of paper land pro connect it can actually be set up to be responsive to the weather so depending on your local weather like different things will happen in the world yeah and then I'm gonna spend like half an hour every day like do I want the tree slider set to this level or do I want it down here like I always just use the presets and turn weather on and off yeah there's some good presets um but I went to I would like to see I would love to see paper land pro come to iOS 7 but we don't know if developers gonna be able make their own right I was going to suggest that were running out of things to talk about with iOS but uh they just won't find a thing oh there's at least one leveling I got one more alright well mine is gonna be quick it's just to say that Tim Cook spent way too much time during that keynote bitching and moaning by Android honestly think it annoys me and it also reminds me of the advertising techniques of smoking companies so when well bear with me but when it kind of became apparent that smoking is really horrible and nightmarish for you what tobacco companies did they tried to be clever and they stopped advertising smoking as something that's actually good for health which they used to do you know clear your throat with a bit of smoke they started advertising against one another so they started talking about how their filter is better than the other guys filter and instead of saying smoke out cigarettes you won't get a sore throat like the other guys and and it's always the case that I think if you have a really solid awesome product you should be selling it on its own merits whereas Tim Cook's been I mean the other thing is Tim Cook everybody just went through stats and graphs you didn't really do any of the demos so most of his time was actually coming on stage is saying we're the best look at these charts and android or android is kind of sucks and and I mean Lynch to compare alders and rank lead an Android they did it what there's no you didn't but in the beginning but I kitty was talking about things like and you know a whole third of Android users are using an OS released in 2010 so he's not wrong about that outraged about it there's 90 like I mean it was upset ninety-four percent are on iOS 6 ninety-four percent of iphone users like that's bonkers that's insane the rebels language harbin history has had a great update cycle like that like if I'm Apple yeah i brag about that all the time yeah but brag about your own don't spend time to advanced it means nothing with some context you could say like ninety-four percent of phone users are on iOS 6 but if you don't mention that oh that's you know a notable feat because no other platform can do that uni and then that's the context that you provide their bloody larger point is that maybe I'm gonna put words of there's a sense there was a sense of defensiveness the idealized big thing was when when when chillers like can't innovate my ass it's like well who was saying you couldn't innovate exactly I'm like who you quoting man yeah that sounds like paranoia more than anything else well but so but like everybody has been doing what we've been doing and saying like the iOS feels a little tire they got to do something so there there was a level of not like here's the amazing thing that we've done that you weren't expecting there was a level of we know everyone's been asking for this stuff so here's the amazing thing that we did because we knew you're all asking for it right and that's that there's a different tone and tenor to that right and the same is actually true with I mean that quote was specifically reference to the mac pro but at the same sentiment held there to like that the mac pro had grown really tired and people were clamoring for a completely redesigned model and they got it I have absolutely zero need for a mac pro but I won't let believe that you know I am so freaking excited for the new macbook airs it is other than like going back to the old magsafe because the new ones sucked because they're there they stick flat out literally everything I wanted them to do on the macbook airs they did like no right not her ray no Retina awesome longer battery life awesome I'm done like why twice and SSDs faster like it's great I am super happy with the new MacBook Airs I'm going to get one and i'm going to prance around like a little girl with it it's going to be looks look if they're not going to okay first of all you need to stop inviting sprockets comparison I mean come on you're asking for it but uh if they're not going to do a retina macbook air which is fine whatever like I would have preferred a retina but that's fine no they know look is the reason why you don't want a retina is because you're right about the effect on battery life right and speed okay well you can get it you can get a three point three gigahertz I seven a gig of ram and and has well on this so speed should be concerned and as well as part of a positive effect on battery life so but anyway the reason if they're not going to retina then the very least they can do is offer a matte option and they did not do that yeah that would have been fantastic yeah um now I'll think about this laptop but I'm going to get an ID directed okay I radio I radio so raw so whatever yeah well mming right well it's it's not a Spotify competitor it's not an RDO competitor it's a pimp and during about it it's a Pandora killer I mean assuming that everything that you can listen to or you can buy in iTunes you can listen to on I radio I mean that's huge they showed an example of led zeppelin playing during the keynote there's no streaming service that has led zeppelin's catalog um so that's kind of a nice little coup I guess for Apple but it's just it's plugged in its built-in it's just like I message in that you know it's seamless for users to just start using it yeah yeah I guess I mean if I'm are do or I'm spot if I'm definitely breathing a sigh of relief I mean unfortunately they're I mean I'm sure that there are users of those services that will just kind of be like confused into thinking of this as a streamlined way of getting to the same thing which of course not but yeah you're right like it if i'm pandora i'm completely like pooping myself because you know pandora is already in there in the hurt locker we've written about them a lot that they have this you know they can't find a CEO they still have a CEO right but if i'm not mistaken and yeah now they are neither this CEO left no it'sit's panda right now Kendra wait do you only know contribute to the discussion because I'm not that much of a streaming radio guy other than having you Spotify in the past the anything I will contribute is that right we should still give a radio a chance to completely suck no I'm really sir because the thing I recall is that when Google Drive got announced we all felt like Oh Dropbox really should have sold to Google when they had the chance Ted do you know Google Drive is coming is going to bring more features more integration a broader ecosystem it's going to plug into things like Gmail and just completely obviate Dropbox false ever since then is that we realize that Dropbox actually is a really good interface and works really well and reliably in Google Drive has its own issues so I mean I radio seems like it's going to be completely oh you know obliterating Pandora but let's give it a chance to see how it actually works in practice well if if can you guys hear me yep yes okay sorry the stinky bars my dots aren't working Chris the if Apple isn't able to put pandora to sleep with this then something has gone horribly wrong because Pandora's catalogue is like under a million songs Apple has how many millions and millions of songs available in the iTunes library Pandora's big thing is that like they don't have millions and millions of songs but they don't need them because they have the songs that you actually want to listen I disagree when I I don't use pandora much anymore because I paid for an RTO subscription but when I did use pandora before RT 0 and Spotify were available in the US and things like that I used to hear the same songs all the time now it's rosie props yeah but like there-there strengthens our algorithm so basically panda or just needs to get sold get bought yeah but it's like then but yeah there's strength is they're out there algorithm in the same way that like grace notes strength was it was its database right like I mean the product like at the end user facing product like no longer should exist like it's been out loaded by an object by more like modern streaming solutions by the way I want to point out that both Chris and I were right both Pandora and Rdio are looking for CEOs so in other words everyone is screwed yeah if you very much did it didn't look at have some unlucky music have some trash talk to say about I radio oh yeah the saddest trash talk ever like I didn't even like I forgot the nokia music existed and like some dude and nokia this is like an actual press release right like that has a quote from some nokia guys saying oh looks like apples finally playing catch up with us yeah that's obviously what's going on yeah funky music was such a brutal competitor uh I think airdrop looks cool well I'm curious to see what kind of files little share but you seem like I'm curious to see if i'll ever use it that did you notice they took a swipe at samsung when they were talking about airdrop because they were like don't have to walk around touching phones with each other well i mean i think that's a swipe at NFC in general right cuz you can do the the file sharing with Windows Phone and yes friday yes but Samsung has definitely been pushing that the hardest like if they've you know they've had at least three or four commercial television commercials showing people touching phones to transfer data yes true but samsung also has like a very similar feature to airdrop right where you can just broadcast something to a net of people in your Wi-Fi network isn't that one of the billions of features that come on the Galaxy series yeah that's Wi-Fi direct they have a they have a thing that uses Wi-Fi direct and it's like a photo-taking party mode yeah and you know it's the most ridiculous thing because like I don't know how many parties you got to where people are out and drinking and they all stay within the same Wi-Fi network and there's no problems there or they're all using galaxy s3's or old gray galaxy s force so sorry we're getting we're getting angry tweets people are mad at us okay that's okay I'm a bit late yeah we've been given him reason to wait undergo well what is uh oh I see so our own Matt macari one of our one of our legal eagles I never get an opportunity use that term what about legal eagles guys is is asking why iTunes radio isn't a real RT or Spotify competitor and I think that I mean it's it's this is a really good question it raises a really interesting point because people don't have that clear of an idea what the differences are between like an online radio and online streaming service I'd like there's those even the right terms so like the difference is like Spotify Rdio like you got all of the music all you can eat you can pick whatever you want and listen to it right now and you pay 5 10 bucks a month for that Radio subscription is like you could buy music and you can listen to stations but you can't say I want to go listen to this song right now give it to me right yet see on demand yeah yeah it's a distinctly different type of service right so I think I add to answer Matt's question directly from what all of the reports from our own reports and other sources as well before iTunes radio was announced was that Apple was very adamant in how much it was willing to pay royalties on the songs and I believe that the record companies are reportedly all wanted more money than Apple was willing to pay I think Apple wasn't willing to pay as much as even pandora pays per song and so maybe they just weren't able to come to an agreement on those terms in order to allow on-demand streaming like you have with our do and Spotify because I didn't want to pay but the royalty per song as far as like is it a competitor I mean it it's not a direct competitors doesn't have the same functionality but the question that it that it raises is are people going to be like ma'am I'm not going to start paying for I'm happy enough with what's on deck here I'm happy enough with this and why I could go yeah it could totally totally eat up customers from Spotify nor do I could speak to my wife uh does not understand why I pay for our do when she has pandora for free like she is perfectly fine and perfectly content with pandora even with the induction ads in the limited song selection she's like I don't care I don't have to pay for yeah and yeah I mean that I think there's a total like there's a huge contingent of the population that just isn't into music enough to really care to be able to listen to their own selection of music they just want they want some background music they want to be able to press play and stuff just starts coming on and that you know this is perfect for that contingent in the population and it but if you are a music enthusiast you can be looking for something more and that's where services like our dear Spotify come into play it's also interesting that iTunes radio seems to be funneling you into just purchasing songs on iTunes because you listened to it and then there's a button right there to buy it if you want it actually oh yeah yeah it almost feels like Apple gave up like want to like go through the same level of how that are do and Spotify and mog have gone through to secure these hundreds of maybe even thousands of individual deals for for streaming all these songs so there they just like went halfway and they're like okay well we'll just you know what we'll do a pandora style service and then funnel people right into put Tobias it should be noted that uh I don't believe Spotify Rdio and definitely not Pandora none of them actually make money so that's no fair no I just brought up a great point on Twitter and response to Maddie's the other thing that we have to keep in mind why help gonna raise thats model go ahead then do it ma'am well yeah I wanted to show off the fact that I'm elated to at least from formula but the licensing regimes are different so if you're running an online radio service you don't need to sit down and negotiate deals with people there's basically a preset rate at which if you're running a radio service you get access to the music and you don't need to go and talk to the artist because they signed up basically the royalty rate is already set for you it seems like it's more complex than that because Apple has been going to the labels and signing licensing deals of some description but but yeah if you're operating a pedorra like service the negotiating of the licensing isn't a problem for you because there's that particular regime in place so imagine the point that imagine if they they did offer something like Spotify Rdio just unlimited music you could pick your songs itunes is the number one seller music right now and if this thing was popular like people would just it would cannibalize their own sales right and if I'm Apple I maybe you think that's a fine trade-off if I can charge enough for the service but if I'm the music company and I see the store that sells the most of my music coming to me and saying hey we will really want to launch this service that will totally like kill all your sales how about it you want to set up a deal there you know if I'm up a music company I say yeah that's not going to happen goodbye right um I think that I am done talking about iOS there must be more we could talk about the tabs in chrome but we don't really need to not chrome sorry ha Safari well so there was that they stole from chrome that's exactly yeah there's just one kind of like overarching theme that I want to address now I talked about this briefly on the WWDC show yesterday but like I feel like every platform now has had its what I'm this is my term feel free to use it I'm open sourcing it but the term that I've come up for this with for this phenomenon is Apple's had its Metro moment like you know we saw in the true transition from windows mobile 6 57 we saw it in the transition from gingerbread honeycomb and and now we're seeing it with with iOS and I imagine that if webos had actually lived long enough just to still be shipping phones today it would probably be less I don't want to use the term cartoony but would have personal than it did it would it would have less gloss than it did when it died so it's just the direction the design is going but it kind of makes you wonder what's next like at some point do we go back to the glossy look like you know is everything that is old new again at some point what happens well I can speak to that from the very obscure field of soccer t-shirt okay I manager isn't here this and what happens there is there is actually pretty much an ebb and flow in terms of design so you get one year or two years three years where retro shirts of back end so everything is simplified everything is basic everything tries to look like the 1950s and people couldn't afford to buy more sophisticated shirts to play soccer in football in and then the designers kind of started getting back to their guru to start over designing things start putting mesh panels on the side etc etc and it becomes really over designed and busy and I always thought oh you know what we're gonna go retro and simplify and you know go back to real spirit power and I just keep cycling that in and out in and out kind of lucky or you used to be because the nfo is moving to the same sort of system but you're kind of lucky with her consistency or sports uniforms were you you don't follow college football apparently yeah any like I'd say past tense what did it what do you mean well they used to be consistent not now they're not a kind of horrible angry and polish Bosco Jesus man I can't even watch that with the parachute shorts and anyway we leave diverged pretty far from uh from mobile you guys that's a John McCain's favorite new feature auto updates for App Store apps that's right okay yeah he I mean he actually he brought that up on the the Senate Florida teen i right at some point in questioning and good questioning Tim Cook that was he had he had the CEO of the most powerful technology company on the planet and he's like what am i upside i'll update do you think it's like you think you have to cook such an email immediately after that and being like we need to add this feature will click and just just do it hey you know what it wouldn't surprise me it's entirely possible just like i'm developing a conspiracy theory that sony hadn't decided on pricing for the ps4 until after the xbox about yesterday but yeah okay that'll be hilarious thing we need to start lobbying congress for features that we want in iOS we need too many senators John McCain and can move to move estate no actually that's not worth it we need to get soldiers don't burn get mad inners no Franken the seventh letter he'll be an outside right here we go yeah if used to in politics where you get a bunch of senators complain about notifications in iOS I think we get something done yeah I I would agree with that how optimistic on that front as well I didn't talk about how bad the folders are can we talk about that how they're not bad come on though they look hideous I love the fact that they're unlimited so now I can consolidate my ford weather app folders into one hey boys need some weather apps they're so ugly the weather the folders are so ugly in iOS 7 they're like ah damn why don't you just move to Florida man then you're at the right now Florida is not good I would say more like San Diego San Diego is a place where you don't have to worry about the weather right yeah so okay Real Talk guys uh duh now that we know about iOS 7 does it influence at all you're interested in getting a google edition device later this month I need both yeah I mean any boat now because the thing is I already own an iphone 5 i'll get iOS 7 on that so right oh you're but you're not lining up for a 5s is that what I'm hearing no not unless like when they do announce the successor it does some really mind-blowing hardware stuff yeah I mean I my personal thing is that I ki be I keep feeling harassed by the difference in quality of apps between iOS and Android it's is such a recurrent thing to say about it you know I always have to just more reliable and better i get i can tell you guys actually go ahead man well I can totally agree with you Vlad and and that's the thing that is like I get frustrated when I'm on iOS exclusively because none of my apps update in the background and then I get frustrated when I'm on Android because none of the apps are the quality of iOS so I'm actually really intrigued by the new background multitasking features in iOS 7 and if they really do solve this problem of apps not updating in the background because it drives me nuts to use Sparrow or gmail or whatever email i will use and it doesn't update in the background yeah and Twitter to like the control panel plus background proper multitasking like that's those are like to my you know four or five big complaints about iOS and their big ones and like just changing those things is going to change a lot of the like the effective feel of what it's like to use the phone and it like might overall just feel way better than I expect as a holistic experience so I'm super pumped for it to get out but yeah no I mean I mean I'm I'm gonna not own the latest android phone no I'm gonna own the latest Android phone i'm going to buy a stock gs4 it's going to happen well i would i would much prefer j s4 active oh god you get a just for active with like a four point four inch display that would be sweet no you have you have to have a galaxy zoom now that's what you get you get the galaxy yeah no Flannigan's galaxy mega by omega yeah you know what if i if i get a galaxy mega if somebody even sends it to me for review i'm using as a chopping board that is just happening the soom the zoom is the rumor for the June twentieth event is that right yes take a point shoot camera and duct tape it to the back again work and those are the leaves which is essentially what the galaxy camera is right now it's actually worse is actually worse than a galaxy camera because a galaxy camera when you look at it from the back it's all screen I won't look at it from the front is basically a camera so it's like galaxy camera that is one of the Samsung names which I've had the fewest complaints about it's like yes galaxy okay that's you enter a brand camera it's a camera good what we're on the same page it's your Android camera but now this thing is essentially yeah we're gonna build a galaxy s4 on the front which is why the call in the product galaxy s4 zoom room and product yeah and then we're gonna splice it to a crappy point shoot camera and we're going to make it as thick as a crappy point shoot camera make the front with you know the physical buttons and everything else just like phone so we're going to encourage you to use this freakish thing including in your piece so I think that see here's the thing i'm excited by this like the the idea of a galaxy s4 zoom because if you can just like crammed on a camera to the back of a galaxy s4 and you have a new product that the other ones took the whole world of possibilities like you can have like the galaxy s4 twitch galaxy s4 attached to a cappuccino machine porto save toaster yeah well s4 toast as for drive like it's some attached like a scooter there's a lot of possibilities they a lot of product categories they could jump into here with what the dream for Android was that it's you know could be put on a billion different things and it turns out you don't actually have to customize Android for the thing you put it on you just need to tape an s4 to it I mean really I think what would serve all of us the best is if they'd they'd just attach a galaxy s4 to the back of an iphone and then you have to choose platforms yeah there you go yeah um nope oh speaking of choosing California why don't why doesn't somebody make a case that is holds an iphone on the back and an s4 on the front you know ozz don't think you all it get-get will I am on because I bet he would do it well I am with definitely me down with that this is worse than the idea of conflicts in today of using one web browser on this so that is one web browser for work and one fun oh that's right well ya know I do that I I have two browsers open all the time I can't do it i think i think safari still does open in a new window above opening a new tab on the right click menu something like that it's like these the small little browser things that just annoying pest me so that's why 71 browser and we should all stick with one device and these companies should just get there something something together and make a cohesive OS well if you're an AT&T customer you're gonna be sticking with one device a little bit longer now really you're gonna try and fit in all the other topics we have no i just want to plan okay he generally my skin because you know agt announced on Sunday no less the day before WWDC that it to like verizon was going to be dropping its 20-month upgrade cycle and extending it to 24 months so now you have to wait a full two years before you can upgrade your phone and get a full discount on it and which is fine it's kind of expected to happen because verizon did it and anything verizon does ATT has to do as well because it's monkey see monkey do but just the fact that they have the gall to announce it on a sunday afternoon the day before WWDC and everything that's happening at e3 just knowing that this news was going to get there and steamrolled by a billion things happening the next day it's just like so typically ATT that it drives me nuts I mean this is such an AT&T move that I actually like it wasn't even news to me I was just like oh I thought that was already the case you know we need to do actually no I'm not gonna I'm not going to give this idea way but I have an idea and I'm gonna do it it's gonna be amazing so you already gave away your best idea of the podcast which was the yes or Pogo attached to this for to a pogo stick fun for kids everywhere I like it yeah now you can browse reddit while your pogo sticking actually you guys probably discussed this though wait wait wait wait wait galaxy s4 galaxy s4 take two galaxies horse it put him together so like when one dies you can just flip it around yes exactly brilliant brilliant you should win a freaking nobel peace prize for that idea I should win a galaxy s4 Nobel yeah dieter can you just take your mic and just drop it yeah actually you know it's permanently attached to my desk oh you know what we we just got a tweet about something that we do need to talk about which is FaceTime audio which is actually a big deal yeah you want to know who hasn't replied to my request for a statement asking if they're going to do anything weird with FaceTime audio gee I wonder I wonder who could that be I'm just saying I say you gotta ask how you're gonna lau it right you're not gonna block out on any of your plans or you know data networks or anything and I have gotten an answer usually I get something right away but not this time it's interesting isn't it hmm maybe it'll be announced on like a Sunday afternoon the day before you know we're expecting the iphone 5s peanuts so FaceTime audio is one of those things where it's like yeah that should have been there and I'm happy for it and I don't know if it changes things because facetime still feels I'm wondering a facetime and imessage are going to feel better integrated to each other than they do now when is it is race time going to be opened up like promised oh so many years ago won't happen but I do we know the details on the FaceTime audio is it limited to Wi-Fi do they say that or does it I thought what I already gave any details now but not really regular what do you want tuna not limited to Wi-Fi so right I I definitely like the idea of like being seated at my computer and you know say I need to talk to dieter for like five seconds uh like you know just being able to like FaceTime audio him like me on my computer him on his phone like yeah it's a beautiful thing and it's easier than the sky and it's ironically what Google kind of broke with hangouts because you used to do that very easily with google voice on your computer yeah I don't know why like hangouts not having a an audio option is annoying like you can't allegedly coming right yeah it's well yeah and you can do it now on the phone but you gotta like dig through a menu to get to it so actually I have a confession to make here and when we start to talk about communication services like actual communication services would actually human beings on the other end I start to get bored and sleepy because I don't do all that much of it with these phones and the plan i was going to raise which again you probably discussed on last week's podcast was the galaxy s4 Z is completely uninteresting to me but this nokia windows phone with a 41-megapixel sensor and all that 808 PureView goodness that is a phone i'm actually excited and extremely interested in it looks huge from the leap from the leaked pictures it looks thinner than the 80 80 really enjoyed a dude a connection of the leaked screenshots for the next version of Windows Phone right it looks like no real Notification Center like intriguing yeah oh yeah let's hope yeah but we've I mean we've heard time and time again from various sources that we're not going to see a new cut of Windows Phone I mean we'll see these so-called GDR releases which are the interim builds but we're not going to see a real new version of Windows Phone 2013 so whatever we're seeing in these screenshots just push out your mind for another 6 plus what yep it's not coming this year ready yeah all right thanks for nothing a video that was a chicago-style rain on your parade boom look at that what does it even mean I don't know what chicago-style rain rain means you're just making I don't know man mean whatever kind of sucks in chicago right your face kind of sucks look Vlad what what what I wanted to say is that well two things 1i think this phone looks really wide which is it runs totally counter to your philosophy of how of how a phone should feel an and and two I do think there's a possibility as phone will launch this year it's just not not gonna have a new version of Windows Phone do you mean thick rather than wide no i mean like it looks I don't know like it from the pictures it looks like wide like it definitely looks bigger than like a 928 like likewise so it's hard to use one handed yeah that's a fair point but my thinking was it was kind of to be expected a nokia will take the 808 technology the 808 PureView technology and kind of shrink it down to some degree given that it's at a year since then and that seems to be what this device is shaping up to look like and I think if you're gonna get a really high quality sensor really high quality lens optical stabilization all those other fancy and actually useful not just give me keep it useful tricks than okay asserted into the 808 I mean uh basically it's a trade-off but it's one that I could see a lot of people making because gaseous for zoom to me is just an unholy alliance of two annoying pesky yes your product think that galaxies your system is gonna be your phone then get out of my face go away but like right this is all gonna do wrong because I was like I would actually make it make it be like a phone it doesn't look at that much thicker yeah if I if I really really wanted that camera and I was I knew I'd be carrying it with me everywhere then yeah it's like it's actually really intriguing I think it's cool that's point yeah that's what and trust me I've used the 808 PureView with gassiness as a combo it's really annoying to carry two phones around so if you have an 808 PureView with a usable operating system and come on Microsoft let's have this notification center before the end of the year please and then is great you know yes he's got a big bump and okay if it's really wide I'll just have to learn to stretch my hand out a bit more or have a big person hire a big person to just carry the phone around for me you know whatever you know it's it's a trail if you make but ultimately it's a smaller trade-off then you have to carry around a smartphone and a camera you can you know rely on and enjoy and I've been disappointed with cameras I mean I really think the pause well the current generation of latest hardware the galaxy s4 in FM five and not the best cameras that either companies produced mm-hmm not so see more apple and they're not really stepping forward awaiting I survived is definitely the best camera that's been on an iphone oh yeah I'm sorry I thought your dog wasn't here the other but yeah like maybe not like relative to the other times like the iphone 4 cam yeah so far ahead of another thing that's what I'm try to say yeah anyway uh we've been doing at this hour a half i'm calling it a show because ok see you later man yeah you got to take this and buy you guys I mean the listeners and the Watchers also the guys that were on the podcast you should follow them on twitter vlad vlad savov curses z power dan is DC c4 with an e I i am at back lon we are all at verge you can leave a comment on this post you can do it right now at this very moment you can go and leave a comment to tell us what you think you can also shoot us an email and we will be back possibly next week thanks for watching