greetings mobile accomplishes welcome to
the verge mobile show it's up to the 50
for the week of July fifteenth 2013 I am
dieter bohn I'm glass seventh i'm dan
seifert and i'm very similar wait what
just happened I said I'm very angry well
you are very ignorant but but that's
that's par for the course Neil I that's
nothing unusual knee level hello so
you're here Neil I to express your rage
at AT&T so the context we're going to
jump right into this because knee like
to have to go pretty soon is t-mobile
announced a new plan that it called jump
and then 18t came back and had its own
thing called next and basically these
are what their plans lets you like least
phones and upgrade more often for a
certain amount of money per month I'm
oversimplifying yes we could really get
into the nitty-gritty of it so we start
with t-mobile and try and explain what
it is they're doing and then we can go
into I att's response insane everybody
thinks so except for Chris I think
that's probably Dan where you were at
the tmobile event yeah yes I was
explaining this jump thing to me uh so
jump is t-mobile's method to let you
upgrade your device sooner than say
every 18 to 24 months which people have
been used to for a couple years ah it's
a monthly program that you pay 10 bucks
a month for and then you can upgrade
your device every 12 months or earlier
if you've been or I believe every six
months as long as you've been in the
program for six months you can upgrade
and then you can do this two times a
year right maximum um and so when when I
say upgrade that's like a terrible
carrier made up term but it means that
you can buy a new phone and a discounted
price just like a new customer would get
so if you buy your iphone 5 now and pay
say a hundred dollars for it today and
you join the jump program in six months
you can get a new phone uh for the same
hundred-dollar discounted price and you
trade in your eye your current iphone
right so that's the thing right is like
right now
when I my 24 months is up and I am
allowed to buy a new phone and get a new
subsidy on a new phone which I think
like that that's what we should call it
instead of like upgrade it's just be you
get to get a new subsidy hooray I get to
keep my old phone but with this program
I get to do it twice a year but I've got
to hand over my phone so like it's elyse
right so you pain like the sixties on
the rental fee for the six months well
and you're actually making payments on
the phone and I guess at the end of it
just like when you lease a car you can
pay off the rest and keep it instead of
trading it in is that right why is this
so confusing you probably could do that
but that's certainly not the intent and
my guess is that you'd want to go off of
jump if that was your intention okay so
okay the other thing is cool jumpers
it's an insurance plan right yeah so it
includes your kind of your standard
insurance these days so if you drop in
and break it or you lose your phone or
you get it wet or whatever whatever you
do to your phone and you need to replace
it then you pay a deductible and they
will replace the phone for you yeah so I
mean the thing I was so excited about
with tmobile before when they first did
their uncarrier stuff is if you had
asked me you know two years ago to
design what I think a smartphone plans
have looked like it would have basically
looked like what t-mobile did here's the
cost of your data here's a costume
minutes and here's what your subsidy
costs if you want to get a subsidy and
when you're done paying it off you're
dumb and so it was very clean and simple
and easy and now they've got me like
breaking out a spreadsheet and planning
out future purchases for phones of and I
that I don't know whether or not they
exist and I guess that's cool if you're
really into excel but it's like it it
doesn't stray carrier I don't know maybe
maybe I'm being cynical about it that's
a quote right there that's cool if you
really need to excel I mean and who's
not can we hear from the ghostly figure
of Neil I who's back lit himself so much
there yeah yeah we might hear you my
video off no your videos on your dark
shadowy figure oh I see evan is just not
switching to me so look t-mobile's like
it'sit's I get what you're saying but
you only have to do the math and all the
spreadsheet stuff
if you want to like participate in their
games but if you just want to like buy a
phone like a nexus 4 and put it on
tmobile you get a phone for 279 you
don't pay a device subsidy every month
what's baked into the plan which is
pretty much like all that they're doing
right like that's that's the big
innovation for t-mobile's they took the
device subsidy and they pulled it out of
the plan and said this is how much our
device subsidy costs if you want to
participate in these programs and then
they're saying if you want to upgrade
faster you can pay essentially pay a
higher subsidy which is fine and I don't
like the reselling the phones like
that's really wonky I think for regular
people it's you can pay a higher subsidy
and get a new phone more often which is
what people want to do if you compare
that to what eighteen t is doing with
next they're like the subsidy is still
baked into the plan and you're paying
like basically installments on the full
price of the phone too hot further hide
the fact that ATT is charging you a
monthly device subsidy that you've never
been able to like say no to or get away
from and that's like that's really the
problem with ATT's plan is that
t-mobile's like we're going to
transparently break down all these costs
for you and you can pay whichever ones
you want in eighteen t is like we're
gonna hide the biggest trick that we've
ever pulled by offering you some other
money that you can pay which is
well first of all I would contend it's
not the biggest trick 18t has ever
pulled they've pulled far bigger ok so
eighties plan compared to t-mobile's
plan is like the cost is variable
depending on which phone you get you get
to upgrade every year but you know but
that that subsidy is that is hidden in
the cost of their plans from the get-go
sort of never goes away right and you
don't get the option to pay off the rest
your phone keep it at that year part at
the end of a year agt has definitely
collected the full price of the phone
from you like that much is so obvious
just to clarify that last point dieter
you can pay these installments ahead of
time and and pay off the full value of
the phone but but you you might as well
have just bought the phone at full price
for them yeah well but no but but but ok
so what we're missing
is that people don't want to just buy
the phone right no like no regular
American wants to just buy the phone
they want the the the easiest path to
the best and when I say best I mean
biggest phone i'm not spending as little
upfront as they possibly can and for
those people whether it's a good deal or
not next is absolutely going to appeal
to them i know most people are going to
be screwed it's it's the it's the Barons
rent-a-center model right like you don't
have to pay anything upfront and you are
paying an obscenely amount for the phone
every month or the device or whatever
and yeah you can buy it at the end of
the end of the year or whatever having
paid all that extra money but but i
think the other nuance of the other new
I the other nuance that we're missing
here is that the simple act of choosing
AT&T or Verizon of your carrier has
already doomed you to being screwed the
only question is how badly and where you
want to be screwed I'm and I will I will
plainly admit that next is a
particularly severe form of being
screwed by AT&T but at the bottom line
and we've been talking about this all
day before the mobile show started but
with 18 tease postpaid it and with
verizon's and with sprints for that
matter you have no option but to pay but
so here's the thing I think that's going
to change I think this is the sort of
thing that leads that to changing your
Chris was gonna say you have no option
but to pay the subsidy baked into the
price but that has to change right
because they can't I don't think they
can actually compete with t-mobile and
like the smaller region as for as long
as long as long as long as you can t and
verizon have three times as many
customers as t-mobile it's not going to
change yeah yeah I think you need I have
been watching too many Occupy Wall
Street documentaries or something I
don't know oh my god don't think look I
know you're anticipating some form of
consumer activism which just isn't going
to materializes is very much the way to
Chris describes it he says it's not the
biggest trick atts of a code and I want
to agree with it and so far as AT&T
didn't do it by itself but the whole
premise the whole pre-programming that
we have in our heads that I'm getting a
phone with my car
tract as opposed to I'm getting a phone
and then I'm getting a contract
separately splicing those two things
together is the one thing that keeps
carriers so profitable and the thing
that keeps us so screwed and now ATT
just you know its a rating on top of
that its refining the screwing process
really that's so this really happening
yeah I look at I look at these moves as
like there's two motivational factors
and they're both exactly what glad said
that it's about money number one people
seem to want to upgrade more often and
for whatever reason everybody pushed
their full you know upgrade plan to 24
months so they needed to find a way to
continue to make money and get the money
that they're getting for subsidies but
still let people upgrade every year so
they came up this and honestly the
second thing is the the secondary market
for phones is exploding there was a
great article huffington post last week
about like just how insane the market
for stealing and selling stolen
cellphones is yeah and and these these
companies like they're leaving money on
the table by not getting back these
phones when they're less than two or
even three years old and finding a way
to resell them to somebody else in some
way and so those two things put together
they needed to put together a plan to
keep making money on subsidies keep
Americans feeling like they're not
paying the full price of a phone right
away and get in on the secondary market
for phones and you put all those things
together and you get AT&T with this plan
that is like I mean we can on next you
can conceivably play and for like I
think for the 64 gig iphone 5 you could
conceivably be paying fifty dollars a
month for that phone on next right
that's the high end of their service fee
which is insane if you're the sort of
person who's going to end up paying
fifty dollars a month for a new phone
because you want a new phone in here you
should definitely just buy the phone
outright at retail and resell it after
year and I don't know why ATT thinks
that they can get away with this why
people are so stupid that they're gonna
fall for that I mean people are stupid
right I mean the if these rent-a-center
places make money hand over fist because
people are stupid and they want it now
and and they don't think about the
monthly recurring cost
the way that I see this is I think 18t
has figured out a way to get you to
continue to pay that that high monthly
rate plan and get normal people who
aren't thinking about paying full price
for a smartphone to actually pay full
price for a smartphone in addition to
the the high monthly rate plan with the
baked in subsidies like what I think
that's exactly right they're making pay
twice I mean it is appalling like just
flat-out appalling to me but you already
have two day twice you already have to
pay to unless you're under a contract
for an 18 key branded device you are
already paying twice which would be
ninety-nine percent of eighteen t
customers are there on write a contract
for an 18 teen training device that
they've got AT&T two hundred dollars and
page or even or not right I mean if you
had your getting ready T you are paying
the device subsidy one way or the other
so as long as you expect to be on stuck
on this network for the next two years
you might as well like get some
subsidized phone at some point so that
at least you're getting a little bit bad
should get it every 24 months whenever
you're able yes as soon as you're able
to you should get that unsubsidized
phone yeah the lies you looking at
something um if you recall ATT part of
his big pitch when I try to take over
t-mobile was to say that in ec mobile
spectrum middle devotee in order to be
able to compete etc etc and first of all
it's my impression that agency will not
be able to pull this kind of crap if
you'd actually have legitimate
competition and second of all I mean
this is a follow-up do we could come
back to ATT is LTE rollout seems we go
pretty well from what I understand and
it doesn't seem to have been impacted by
the failure to quad tmobile what's the
weather I mean we we don't know where it
would be had they acquired t-mobile at
this point but yeah I mean there's four
companies that matter and their number
two in their roll out yeah I mean if
we're comparing it to horizon which is
their their competition here like they
are getting pantsed I mean I drive
around and I you know I go out of the
boonies and I get I've got verizon LTE
literally everywhere I go yeah I've yet
to not see right I'm sure it's not
lately and AT&T drops you know you drop
into HSPA all the time yeah anything
he's the worst
that's why I continue to pay them every
month hundreds of dollars I really feel
like 18t deserves to me as a customer
like every time I write something
negative about eighteen t I get people
ask me why it on switch and it's like
literally it's because I am a customer
of AT&T that complete I feel completely
validated in pointing out over and over
again that they are like out to screw
people and so is horizon I pay verizon
to the only company that I don't pay for
service from right now is sprint and
that's because I it's it's hard to do
anything except pity sprint we made it
his neck point was it two weeks ago is
it you just got to pat him on the back
and say ride you know that's gonna be
great you wasted a billion dollars
building wimax that but you know my
thinking is the point of d2 raised of
our companies getting phones back within
a year's time so they can resell them
capture that more conceptual I think
that's actually not such a terrible
motivation at all because I do feel like
if the carrier's themselves get involved
in the recycling of phones within a
year's time when they'll still be
desirable to people at a lower price
point it's actually really good you know
what I mean but if you're if you're
playing this game of upgrading your
phone every 12 months or every six
months you should be the one taking
advantage of that you should be the one
to adventure that you had with that kind
of assumes that people care enough to
you know get into it etc look what I'm
saying i'm willing to pay these carriers
to deal with the hassle of not having to
put something on ebay or craigslist it's
like when you go trade in your car when
you buy a new one you could sell it
yourself on your front lawn for probably
twice as much or you can just trade it
in and let them deal with it yeah but i
have to disagree with DJ so it doesn't
come down to how much you wouldn't pay
it should come down to price competition
between the carriers and this is this is
my big problem this is why i was
referencing the LTE strongman that AT&T
was directing with tmobile these
American carriers consistently screw you
guys we will discuss her already but if
you actually had legitimate competition
going on there's no reason why your
prices shouldn't be matching the ones
that we have here in Europe and there's
no reason why something like these up to
12 months you get a recycling system of
some sort going on
there's no reason why they shouldn't be
affordable and reasonable to the
consumer whereas at the moment t-mobile
is extremely convoluted at ATT is just
pissed eight from what I understand yeah
well look it's literally because you
can't move devices between carriers in
this country which you can do to some
limited extent Europe right so I'll to a
great extent particular in the UK yeah
but you just can't and that's that's the
end of it and that's the end of it yeah
that's and that's why sprint blew a
billion dollars in wimax to no effect
because we suck at setting standards and
with that I have to go the at the end
but the end of the day ATT is cheating
you and in this I can't I cannot tell
you like when i read the next pricing
how angry i became he is mad he was i
mean it's it's just it's so predatory I
mean the r you keep comparing it to rent
a center and that's what it is it's
utterly predatory lending at like absurd
right so if you do the math and
something like they're charging you
essentially thirty percent interest on
the phone over the course of however
many months actually I think it's like
the short change artists did you see
that thing that leaked us on Twitter now
is just like a demonstration of how a
short change artists works yeah the
South Park thing yeah yeah it's like
that's exactly what it is like oh this
seems like a good deal okay I'm with you
I'm with you and at the end of the day
you have a samsung galaxy s4 that's
running TouchWiz and you're out eight
hundred dollars and that's what I have
to say a handful of pues si se thing is
different but you only have it for 12
months I'm sorry Chris okay I have to go
goodbye everybody thanks for joining me
luck yeah all right now that he's gone
Christy do you want to defend the
corporate monster cuz i know you're you
you think this is a good plan because
you you probably believe in leasing
expensive cars to know it's it's not no
it is not that i think that it's a good
plan it's that this is nothing that we
should have not expected from AT&T nor
should we expect the average american to
not love it and buy into it then that is
the point that I'm trying to make this
is an average a screw over by AT&T not a
particularly agreed to screw over see I
don't know I'm your average I go in to
AT&T I really want this new
phone I hear they've got some plan where
I can do it and the rep is like yeah I
got you here's what you do here's a new
phone and you only need to do blank XX
for a month and I got to think a lot of
people will just like see that added
cost at the end of their bill and say
yeah like at some point we've got to
realize there's no free lunch and I
don't know like I really hope that
actually ok so both AT&T and Verizon
rumored plan even though they're
terrible I'd like to think that I can
see them as a good sign that they are
seeing things change and that t-mobile's
uncarrier crap is having an impact well
i don't know i mean you know that they
are they are but they're they're
substituting like legit plans with
extremely illegitimate like con artist
plants right but if lace collars and
plans fail they'll have to follow up
with legit plans later yeah in theory
but the problem is that like a teen teen
verizon are too big to fail like there's
very little incompetency at the
marketing level or like the logistics
level that either those companies could
perform that would cause them to to like
flounder to the point where like they
were in danger of becoming the number
three carrier right well that is the
definition of a duopoly as far as I'm
concerned like they can move it up bad
enough to bright number three right you
know that's that's like I was saying
before as long as they have three times
as many customers as t-mobile they
really don't have to change all that
much they can like do these surface
things and make maybe make their Loper a
brand perception a little better but at
the end of the day uh you know 60
million people are not leaving verizon
and AT&T to join t-mobile okay what's
really amusing to me about this entire
conversation is how cheery and smiling
Chris's while he's describing the most
dystopian vision ever like this is
pretty average is it as far as you know
raped by Cary agos this is great no this
is that this is the final conclusion
like we have reached the ends to lick
that the perfect end stages of
capitalism here and I'm that that's
something that we should
that you know as Americans we should be
celebrating and that that's why I'm
happy about well I just want to say I
think cuz we're wrapping up the talk on
these things is that the if there's any
like bright point that you can look at
this if you are AT&T customer and you
like need ATT's network for whatever
reason like me uh and you want a new
phone every six to twelve months just by
phone full rice and go on a go phone
plan because you can get the same
services for like thirty to forty
percent cheaper and not have to give
your phone back to you that's
universally good advice they always buy
the phone separately I mean phones are
expensive people just accept I really
want to switch to a go home would that
be weird it sounds super weird to me and
I'm like super apprehensive about it but
ATT did enable LTE coverage with their
go phone plans recently it's like sixty
dollars a month or sixty seventy dollars
a month gives you unlimited talk text
and three gigabytes a date look if we
all practice if we all practice what we
preach we all would have switched a
simple mobile like a year and a half ago
no kitty man no butBut HIV a plus 42 I
in like you know son nobody's interested
but this hspa+ 42 is great and it's
awesome in urban areas where it exists
in the size is not so patronize is great
oh you do great then great you know
folks up guys do before ride this out
though I have to come early quickly you
talk about a leap and Craig a weekend
but I have to introduce my fast 6
analogy because actually when i watch
the damn movie and okay I have Burleson
is brilliant not the movie the analogy
is pretty oh let the movie too according
to Chris but ok everybody knows it's in
the trailer I'm not spoiling anything
there's a scene where car jumps out of
the front of an airplane it explodes out
of the front of the net plane and to any
regular human being that is like okay
laws of physics reasonable as etc etc
that just doesn't make any sense but the
thing is once you watch the entire movie
and as a particular scene involving a
flying headbutt okay once we watch
entire movie
that scene of the car exploding out of
the airplane Asia is completely
conventional to you like even myself I
was like yeah yeah that makes sense in
the context of this entire movie syntax
person just said that car flying out of
the airplane perfect sense so I feel
like that's the way you guys are you
just being immersed in this stock employ
tation scenario yeah and now you can't
even recognize when you beat abused like
I need to come over there and save you
guys I'm gonna bring over some I don't
know prudential sick i bring over some
network yeah look there's an element as
community and i have to like I you know
I don't want to be a cheerleader for any
particular brand or carrier too much but
you do have to really respect t-mobile's
efforts to swear their way to success on
the back of Jon ledger looked at their
they're doing everything they can to
point out the ridiculousness of what's
going on the in the industry and they
are the only ones as I mentioned before
that are discounting if you're not
taking advantage of it I called a
subsidy but really it's the monthly
payment plan now um and and that's that
you know that that's absolutely where
the industry should be going I'm just
not convinced unlike Neil I'm not
convinced that a ATT and Verizon are
ever in our lifetimes going to be
incentivized to do that yeah I can't say
that I am either well crap meteor
awesome what about so ok ATT wants to
buy leap you know them has cricket and
like it's basically they want to spend a
ridiculous amount of money to get just a
little bit of spectrum here and there as
far as I can tell like ATT is just
desperate to get whatever spectrum it
can now that I can't have tmobile like
this doesn't seem like like a great deal
to me well so my thinking I think that
18 he is thinking about the
strategically and they're thinking about
about it from two perspectives one of
course there's the additional spectrum
which may or may not be overvalued to
there's the potentially more important
issue for them of keeping that AWS
spectrum out of the hands of t-mobile
and Verizon both of whom are now using
AWS
right um and and AWS is a scarce
resource I mean spectrum in general is
obviously scarce resource but AWS in
particular its kind of all been spoken
for at this point and three uh it like
they mentioned in the press release it
gives them a lot of additional
credibility and prepaid like you know
we're all talking about go phone here
but what you know you don't see gophone
really advertised anywhere you don't see
go phone like in an AT&T corporate owned
store like it's there but it's like it's
under like the counters it like a little
bubble packs of phone they blow the dust
off of them and right yeah 18 th doesn't
have a lot of credibility and prepaid
and obviously buying creek cricket gives
them a lot of that credibility so I
think it's kind of they're looking at it
from that perspective and bundled
together I think they feel that it's
worth that amount of money whether it
actually is i don't know i'm not a CFO
sorry I'm just checking my AT&T account
to see if I'm out of contract and I can
get away and I I'm I think I'm stuck in
my contract until the fall because I I
reached at last time I signed a contract
was for the iphone 4s god this is just
the worst website ever yeah good luck
finding that date by the way I was
trying to find some information on the
go phone plans on 1880s website earlier
today tins not nothing I think you can
actually do it from the my 18 th if you
have it installed on your phone I do
because I love being tracked believe me
you're being tracked either way so
actually what I really want to do is
port my number to google voice now you
do not want it but there's no way I
really trust the latest a year ago I
would have said yeah go for it and then
like years past and nothing's happened
with google voice and it's becoming
increasingly like I mean I know they
they say they're going to integrate with
hangouts and hangouts at the future
voice but it also just has nagging
feeling in the back of my mind if you
get like spring cleaning yeah they're
gonna so unhappy they're gonna spring
clean it and then they're going to give
you like you know 15 days or something
to port your number away and then
there's going to be this mad rush this
fire drill that's going to inundate the
the Federation system that all the
carriers used to like interchange
numbers and it's going to break down and
then nobody's gonna be able to call
anyone else
and then there's gonna be the apocalypse
is is exactly what's gonna happen also
testing this myth Google spring cleaning
all the time like myth is it's not like
no is it yes I mean it's not a myth I've
even Google Reader like a big example
the google reader was the biggest story
of the first six months of this year the
fact that it's shutting down okay okay
dan just a reminder is 2013 it's an RSS
reader there are other ways to look at
the web okay who was using latitude like
extensively anyway and you can check in
with Google+ now so but my point is I'm
not saying Google doesn't spring
cleaning things out of its services but
it's like okay let's not call it at me
let's call it a mean that everybody is
kind of spreading around at the moment
where is Apple is famous for doing that
cutting off backwards compatibility when
it decides okay we've had enough of this
we're going to go switch it up this way
and as happy we're giving Apple credit
for that because it moves is
acknowledging forward I mean that's more
on the hardware side and so to aside
Microsoft has done similar things but
make microsoft is the worst example that
I can give because he also has Isis
customers who it's uh you know it does
support maybe bigger one IC point and
maybe it's an irrational fear but you
can't like I it's just like he keeps
coming up and especially when it's like
you know it when when google reader's
announcement happened it was like a
bullet list item four lines down and it
was like one line in amongst all this
other kind of minor stuff like you
mentioned latitude and all these other
things that were like not applicable to
me but like there's one line that says
oh yeah we're shutting down google
reader as of july first see ya and it
was like just that like kind of
flippancy about it about what was you
know one of Google readers or Google's
major services that was just like being
fair enough I mean okay the thing that's
driving me crazy right now is yeah like
I it seems too risky to move my phone
number to google voice but then I'm
frustrated like oh I want to switch to
mobile but then I've got this little
string of digits that I just can't get
rid of and come on
come on how annoying is that like that
I'm so dependent on this number that a
bunch of people know I don't really know
how to solve disposable problem but all
I'm really saying about Google is that
this is one of the most massive
companies that we have around and if
you're gonna worry about a service
terminating I don't think the fact that
google is offering it is a reason to
cause you to worry I understand I
understand that you can feel jaded about
the way just kind of squeezed out the
great information but nobody this is why
I brought up the importance of this
stupid little number is right there's
there's a level of importance this
number has for me and like I can't have
it screwed with exactly there's Google's
willingness to screw with stuff
willy-nilly and those two things you put
that plug them into the equation and
what comes out on the other side is
right now it feels kind of stupid to
give like it's it's not like it's not
like your phone number is some like
social network that's here for five
years and gone after that like it's
something that you know is use day in
and day out for business and personal
communication and things like it's like
a core piece of communication now I do
you like giving up my snapchat name it's
not exactly yeah mm well so nine times
I'd spent on snapchat might I point was
and I absolutely am NOT that that is the
thing that is completely passing by
might I point was just to say that
Google isn't doing it in a willing
native fashion but I guess we just agree
to disagree what I want to do though
we're going for the first half hour
podcast and we haven't talked about any
hardware sign to h2 server hardware
we've been very us centric I mean google
voice doesn't even exist for us here in
the UK so I'm like worried about google
voice pleasures of a more international
let's talk about some handsets can do
that how about we talk about a camera
what if we talk about both oh I see what
you did there we're talking about the
galaxy s4 camera again right no mercy on
all right lumia 1020 nokia lumia 1020
available in the US because we're
us-centric here sorry but it's a July 26
299 on contract no word on what it costs
on a
next phone actually I think you can
figure it out it's too much a full
retail price / 20 so whatever um so okay
I have a touch one glad you have is it
Dan you have who has who's too I I have
a kiss then just yeah so on the surface
it's a it's a 920 it looks almost
exactly like a 920 from the front the
screen is the same size very very
similar design and things like that of
course it all changes on the back side
where you have this giant disk and the
41-megapixel logo and the PureView
camera and it's the you know nokia has
been promising to do this for ever since
the 808 PureView came out so you think
we've been waiting just over a year food
and it works as advertised the I got to
play with it very briefly at nokia's
event and you know the photographs it's
able to take are pretty awesome the
video is able to take is like pretty
mind-blowing and you can zoom in and see
an incredible level of detail you can
even like some of the crazy tricks that
no keys doing is if you zoom in on your
image before you take it so you can kind
of like do your little pinch zoom move
and you take your picture when you're
reviewing the picture afterwards you can
actually zoom out and see the whole
scene that you didn't initially capture
which is pretty cool um pretty neat
feature uh and you know we haven't
really tested it fully but based on our
experience of the ADA way it should do
great in low-light great in all kinds of
photographic situations um so it's cool
so sorry Dan but as notes clarify how
nokia does this zoom in zoom that thing
because it kind of sounds like magic and
no key isn't really all that came to
dispel the idea of magic and nuckie
expertise but what what is essentially
doing is this taking redundant photos so
the first thing to say is yes it's photo
a megapixel sensor just like with the
aid of a few of you but it's a circular
sense therefore you can never take photo
1 megapixel photos photos max out at 13
megapixels at a four by three aspect
ratio and thirty five megapixels at a 16
by nine and I stopped right there that
is the most annoying thing ever just
pick one why is that this stupid music
no just do make it four by three and
stop give like you know and then
chronicles fort 4 by 3 doesn't look at
on your your HDTV well then do it then
just do it it or any 16 by 9 phone
whatever why like it's this one or this
one like you've already got a messaging
problem getting people to understand the
difference between the 41 megapixels and
then the 5 megapixels that you actually
share and that is fact is that the thing
and then on top of that you've got two
more megapixel numbers just tossed in
there for the hell of it no there's
always being confusing that was one of
the first things we ate away p of you is
that you have to be an absolute anorak
to keep track of all the mega pretzels
whereas know they could have a very
clear marketing message to say 35 and
five so for as you get 35 highest
resolution where your august sample you
condense 7 pixels into one you get 5
megapixel photos but that that is
functionally and ultimately what you
really got to do like let's imagine for
sake of argument you shoot you on a 16
by 9 this was going to happen you take a
family picture photo you get the best
quality that you can get at that
resolution and at that size and then the
phone itself takes a redundant 30 i make
this photo in background and this is how
you can zoom in and out so when you're
doing this magical zooming in and out
thing and qualities likely to change I
suspect it's not going to be as good
when you wanna you know zoom zoom out of
5 megapixel photo because you have a
sampling effect isn't there anymore
right up to the same degree but still I
find out really attractive as a feature
and I know everybody has been a big fan
of the pro camera app oh my god it is
you do it it's pretty awesome nobody I
don't that's really really good it makes
all of these easily accessible and more
than that it makes it so you can play
with these settings just you know on the
fly see what you like and like it
actually makes like the way that they've
laid it out and that like they all kind
of come across and then you can like
move the sliders something about that
actually explains what these different
settings mean like the interface is
actually useful for somebody that
doesn't know exactly I rock ironical
czar it's not too different from the way
the interface is on Samsung's Galaxy
camera but the difference is that
instead of a whole bunch of numbers that
you need to know like photographic
principle
for its it's like what the effect will
do and it's it's much it's just much
easier to navigate and use on nokia SAP
the one thing that is missing is
aperture control so you can control your
shutter speed so you can do these long
exposures and they showed in their demos
like four second exposures you can
control your white balance with it and
you can control your ISO settings or
sensitivity to light but you can't
control your aperture which is the
opening of the lens so you can't control
your depth of feel for some reason but
there is one thing that is added that's
like totally unique is you can manually
focus the lens which is like kinda we've
never seen that before on a smartphone
that's really cool opens up a whole new
level of options especially when you're
doing close-up photography so that
that's really cool to see and it works
really well and it's really simple to
use with the interface yeah it makes me
want a 925 yes what yes no thank you the
925 doesn't like it I'll had that app
but then it's just like a normal camera
after that and like so you can manually
focus and your depth of field is so
broad on a 925 because these is a small
smartphone sensor it will mess up your
you're all right on top of your subject
like then your manual focus is like one
but the camera on the on the 1020 is
such a red herring like a nobody is
going to nobody's going to buy this as
they're absolutely but there are people
that like should be interested and
turned on by this camera I am not
looting I don't know and i'll tell you
suck at photography no because here's
the thing your camera is not your phone
and your phone is not your camera
because in a year or in a two year in
two years at most you're going to lose
your camera and and especially with
nokia there's no guarantee that there's
going to be a similar replacement on the
market so then what then you're back to
an eight or 13 megapixel camera whatever
why do you have to think that everything
is going to suck in the future Chris
what AT&T is going to continue having
opoly and offered shitty shitty
subsidized plans and your camera is
gonna get lost and you're not gonna be
able to ever take photos look no all I'm
saying is keep your camera and your
phone separate like it's it's okay to
have a good camera
your phone no the best camera that you
have is the one that's in your pocket
and for any most people ninety-five
percent of time that's their phone yes
and you know what's a great camera the
kick the camera on the iPhone 5 or the
gs4 it's like not even versity 925 it's
like not even it's like I could take
your I can take better picture you could
let's just say this you could take
better pictures with your sony rx100
can't you then you can with your iphone
5 i can take what better pictures with
your sony rx100 or your your canon s110
your iphone 5 right of course of course
yet you could take better pictures with
the Lumia 1020 than you can with a
iphone 5 it's like that yeah difference
ya know I with it alright very seriously
that your arguments is just false it's
just wrong it's bad it's horribly
terrible no I mean I whether or not like
I really think Chris should take care of
all those alerts that he was getting
with the vibration on his phone and let
the rational people talk right now
because seriously the 1020 is materially
materially better in terms of the camera
than anything else other than the aid of
AP of you which really barely qualifies
as phone ok I understand some people
carried out conversations with you ate
away p of you I haven't been witness to
that I'm just going to take their word
for it but now you actually have a
smartphone with a truly advanced camera
and exactly as dan says the pro camera
PS is going to come to other Lumia
phones but it's just going to be a
trinket it's just gonna be a thing that
you can tweak and notice almost no
difference on those other cameras
because they're not as good the pro
camera app is so good and so valuable
and all those things you can tweak are
going to be so useful because the Lumia
920 has a camera that has it has this
crazy optical image stabilization stuff
going on with ball bearings and whatnot
and then you have that lossless zoom and
rich audio recording and stereo mics and
all this madness leave I just feel like
in terms of multimedia phones I can't
even think of one that comes close to it
in terms of multimedia phones yeah it's
an it's an ode
way to describe things but I'll go and I
was cool and another thing i want to
mention is a had a popular tweet this
week where I want to represent the word
megaphone to refer to big phones because
i hate phablets I'm never going to use
it with phablet so I'm gonna call them
megaphones here's with me nobody but I
want to talk about the biggest problem
with the 1020 is obviously its Achilles
heel that is windows one and then like
like that's the problem that i have with
dropping three hundred dollars on it and
using it as my main advice because i
don't think i could do it with Windows
Phone like if this thing was running
Android I would seriously be like so my
house you know well what do I have to do
to get this up and get this phone right
now but because it's running Windows
Phone I haven't placed a pre-order I'm
kind of apprehensive I am you know we've
been we've been talking about how like
man we don't know like we can't run oh
so now I'm gonna I'm gonna take my sim
out of my google edition HTC One tonight
put it back in the 920 and I'll check
back with you guys next week and we use
it for if you break all of our email
threads for work I'm gonna be cyanic
okay yeah I've done this not that long
ago and only 22 problems that i had with
it um it's totally usable and I'm
getting to the point now where I prefer
to Android because it doesn't suffer
from androids like random slowness like
as someone who's used and I'm gonna get
myself into huge trouble here with with
little commenters but as someone who has
I think right now I've used an iphone
for longer than any other period in
history in my history I've been on the
same phone for about eight months now
something like that and you know
typically I've switched you pretty
evenly exactly it's like yeah I don't
know who he is anymore but but typically
i switch pretty evenly between android
and iphone trending more toward android
and with an occasional windows phone in
between and recently I've tried on a
couple occasions to switch
back to an Android device and the apps
are just make me furious because they
don't scroll cleanly they look like like
like garbage and I think that's what I'm
what I appreciate about Windows Phone in
the same way I appreciate iOS is that
it's smooth not all the apps are there
that you need for sure and a lot of
those apps that are there don't suck
yeah so that the two things specifically
that caused me to get off of Windows
Phone 8 last time I tried to use it was
the email experience using gmail might
be easier for someone who's using just
some random I'm AB account I'm change
right oh and and for me and I know this
is like a first-world problem to the max
but I'm the lack of a proper uber app
was an issue um so you don't have any
problem with the browser and the fact
that like it doesn't support webcam or
live a proper IRC app with them IRC
seven works okay but the promise it yet
doesn't background at this project which
is like not a proper I or see ya I and
you don't have a problem with the
browser the fact that it's not
webkit-based which means that the vast
majority of mobile formatted sites don't
work in it well so the browser is great
the problem is that like you say like
websites aren't designed for it like
that they could be and the browser be
great and it worked like in desktop mode
work it usually works great but what
sucks like what was it Spotify or no
what was it there were there was some
music site recently that I was trying a
mixed cloud mixcloud recently released a
mobile browser compatible music player
which works amazing in mobile safari and
in chrome on Android but I in in IE and
mobile IE it doesn't work at all and i'm
sure it could it's just that but mix
club didn't bother optimizing it for IE
because there's absolutely no reason to
so it's another example of like a you
know a critical mass situation for
Windows Phone bring a game back to my
original point it's just I i I've come
to appreciate Windows Phone in a way
that I appreciate that I appreciate iOS
and do not appreciate Android and and so
that's why I'm can strongly considering
getting a 920
because for me the aesthetics of the
phone are more important than having an
unusually excellent camera and the 925
is a really gorgeous phone and they just
announced new feature this week for it
did they Dan uh yeah we uh Tom wrote
this up and a little demo of it it's a
it uses the proximity sensor to and you
wave your hand like it's the phone is
the screen is off and you want to check
the time or see if you have notification
you just wave your hand over it and it
lights up and tells you which is like a
smart use of the proximity sensor it
unlike samsung's galaxy gimmicks that
try to track your eyeballs right screen
or would happen right you know all the
small small features and actually about
the galaxy s4 tried using that again
recently and it's part of the amazingly
large battery inside it it just runs out
of juice way too quickly for me I don't
know why because I'm not riding a
particularly hard but he just did that
so I heard of like um but I think I
think to dance point I don't know
because when then was saying the biggest
kid is here for 10 20 I didn't
anticipate him saying Windows Phone
anticipated him saying the price which
299 amazing team well let's give nokia
credit for the good thing which is that
is shipping the phone two weeks after
its announcement yeah that's that is a
complete Apple move this is something
that I've been saying you know take note
everybody else when apple doesn't
hardware product announcement it says
shipping in two weeks and now Mickey is
doing that again so what's the lesson
gonna be in 6 months when this phone is
a complete failure like you know it's
gotta know me when it when it drops the
ninety nine dollars on contract for
those yeah I mean I hate to say that
it's not gonna succeed in the market but
like we've seen 18t and Nokia try this
twice now and I'd all I think I mean
they're true pewter camera is the
solution that they're waiting for it's
not as important as the other
institutional factors that haven't
helped I think it's going to probably
fail for the same reasons not to be so
negative but it's
just saying that they're taking a very
different tack with this than they did
with the 900 in the 920 the 900 in the
920 were very aggressively priced they
were when they hit release they were
ninety nine dollars a contract and they
very quickly went down from there uh
this is coming out at three hundred
dollars per contract it's clearly a
premium priced phone and they are
putting all of their feet forward on the
camera features and trying a different
tack to get people interested in it and
Nokia said that they are hoping that the
PureView is the the gateway drug to get
people into windows phone and talking
about Windows Phone interested in with
us all because obviously price wasn't
doing it before or low low prices I
still think it's they've got very much
of an uphill battle ahead in order to
you know capture the main audience but
maybe people will buy it on AT&T next
there you go I just I just don't see
that HTC first sitting the bar alone
drinking feeling rejected and sad and
the door opens sunlight bathes into the
room and it closes and the 10-20 walks
in and sits down next to the first and
try to impress the first with its low
light photography and the first doesn't
care because it's too depressed and
eventually the 10-20 realizes that it
too is depressed and forlorn it double
taps itself to check the time and
realizes that it's ten-thirty in the
morning and it's sitting at the bar okay
now guys I have to have to posit the
positive argument the one that rejects
teets premise that this phone will fail
I personally feel like the 1020 is it
marks a break from monkeys previous
attempts yes it's being launched with
AT&T is at least an initial exclusive so
kind of keeps that tradition but again
go back to 920 launch we ourselves and a
lot of other people made a big deal out
of the fact that ok you just announced
920 and the 820 I think these Dakota the
most advanced smartphone in the world
but there's no release date so like what
are you doing exactly and so no key is
improved in that is given us a two-week
release date or be it just in the US the
rest of the world is like quarter free
and I do you feel like now nokia has a
unique selling point with the camera i
know we have secured notes on how
important that is and and the third
aspect is actually the android is pretty
much stagnated in terms of appeal i am
in full agreement chris for whatever
reason i've stuck around with the iphone
so much longer than i would have done
previously and I think that's down to
Android just not really advancing in
terms of user experience yes it's
advanced in terms specs but can you
really pinpoint how they've impacted
users experience or improve it you can't
like I say like I would rather have a
galaxy s3 or galaxy s2 even with just
amazing battery life yes tell ya know
galaxy s2 as a WVGA is not touching that
okay that's a better life and I knew
this place camera is good enough though
sure yeah Wow I don't why do i do like I
do like the boom sound on my 1 i'm not
gonna lie what do you guys think about
this moto x where we got that we've got
the leak it's gonna be always on
listening for you to say okay Google now
and then you can do a Google now search
it's going to have some pulsing
notifications on the screen and it'll I
think they showed like it look like the
Facebook icon so they don't show any
notification on the screen so you'll be
able to see where your notifications are
you get little custom color black plates
that you can engrave with your name and
possibly other materials it could be so
you know I think that it could be really
cool the problem that it is going to
have is fighting this notion this this
really really like paralyzing stigma in
the US market that a phone has to be
huge to be a flagship device and give us
enough that problem but I well apple
doesn't fit in inside of many molds and
that's one of them like what are you
well I guess what I'm saying is like if
there's any company that has a chance to
sort of be look at this this is flagship
and it's not huge like Apple can do it
and I think marketed right motorola
could probably do it I agree but the
problem is does this fit that flagship
bill does the does the Moto action like
we know like
the specs that have leaked out it isn't
like absolute top of the line right now
that's what I'm should be saying some of
the my specs don't match were so anymore
let's top of line premium feel them I
think I think Moto X is going to be kind
of like a reintroduction for motorola I
think that's how they're going to do it
re introducer brand just like they've
got a new logo they've got plenty of
money from google to ride this wave out
for a long time if the Moto X doesn't
you know take off in salt n civilians
babe you know what dan dan Motorola is
just gonna be in the spring cleaning
list like eight item just as I thought
but but honestly I mean they are saying
it's going to be made in the US that in
like one factory and have it quickly
shipped to customers I making things in
the US is expensive and it's definitely
not as uh the the output of how many
they can produce is very likely going to
be less than if they made in China so I
mean and I like the look of it from from
the from the back plate that we've seen
it looks like the ID is not offensive
unlike the les fue droids that have come
out so that's a good sign and if that
points to the design of the the motorola
devices to come that aren't droids then
that you know i'm pretty bullish on that
and i think that they're going to have
ultimately they're going to have to come
out with a range of sizes and i know
that we've been talking forever about
wanting a 42 4.3 inch two flagship
device I don't know if the Moto X is it
I also don't know if they're going to be
able to position this device is a
flagship device and really campus i
spects microsoft has seemingly succeeded
at doing that some degree since windows
phone seven but then again they haven't
penetrated market much so lots of
questions yes you do look that it looks
at it looks good in Eric Schmidt's hands
good night do you think that he custom
selected that bad color do you think
that he customized it he's like I want
white I do it looks like it's got some
kind of grill pattern on it there's
there's been a rumor going around that
you're going to be in addition to like
custom color options that you'll be able
to choose different materials and one of
them being wood and if I
that is actually true I would buy one
with a wooden back so quickly I am in a
window I with are we talking cedar we
talk in balsa come on boss but pork was
was a bamboo photo posted on the back of
it a bamboo yeah that's a good point
flat bamboo is a great wood there was a
quarter silent each other or something
with a hardees company dizzy okay I'm
going to repeat myself third time to or
disruptions but yeah there was UK
designer who got a deal with a Chinese
company to produce a bamboo phone and i
still recall sharp had at least a
concept bamboo phone which which kind of
had a pebble like shape and they had a
fantastic promo video for it there's
like nature and green trees and
waterfalls and pebbles and lighten up I
know we've seen a couple concepts out of
out of Japan that use wood but you know
I've never seen a wooden phone in person
so also I just have a couple of points
right here the first is if you buy
yourself an xbox one and a moto x by
Christmas this year you and the NSA are
going to have a really close
relationship because basically when
you're not mix your phone you got to be
the X your console and both of those are
going to be like you haven't even say to
me do you want to give yourself away so
give me your communist tendencies about
the always on always listening thing yes
the NSA stuff yes it's that's creepy yes
that's like there's a whole lot of creep
factor there but like don't we want to
live in a future where we could just
like talk to our computers when we get
is it and they respond to us is in the
dream like the the next generation thing
where you just say computer blah blah
blah blah blah and it does whatever you
want and it's always waiting that's
really no no cuz it particular with
phones you I use the phone primarily
when I'm out those among other people
and I don't want to talk to it no I'm
not saying that it should be the only
interaction paradigm but I'm saying like
at some point we need to like move
towards the future where we can talk to
our computers and
good but isn't that isn't that also kind
of facile and evading the issue of
coming up with better touch interactions
like okay like you admitted we suck at
touch interact like you know you're
demanding that we have better
counterweighted knobs and dials when
like what we really need are buttons I
mean yeah I mean honestly I feel like
the removal of all buttons is kind of a
step back all these touch screens
ergonomically I mean they saw so dieter
I think it could go two ways because I
think back to like handwriting
recognition on Newton even graffiti it
feels like that kind of reached a peak
and then died out in in the course of
what 10 to 15 years yeah as a valid
means event of a human interacting with
a computer so the question is does voice
recognition take that F or are we in the
early stages of an actual revolution
higher in 20 years we're all talking to
our computers naturally I think like
native said that people try to let us
talk to our computers naturally I think
what you were saying earlier that why
can't we just have both there's definite
use cases where using your voice is
easier if you're cooking and you need
some to look up something you can't
touch your device or if you're driving
and you need to look up directions with
your voice that's a lot easier to do ok
but but it doesn't make the only method
the distinction that should be drawn
then is I guess like myself I wouldn't
trust it if it has to be and always
connected to the internet so it is kind
of like Google now or you know again
going back to the xbox one does it have
to be connected internet how many times
days I have to connect to the internet
how many times they have to communicate
with Microsoft services center etc and
the way that I would analogize it is to
say when you're using a touchscreen
you're comfortable that you're not
giving away information about so whereas
when you're using a voice service that's
I think I think that's a red herring
blood because if you're using a moment
you're giving away so much data already
you're doing it but when are you leasing
it you're giving away
I'm talking about the process of
touching the screen but you provide that
automatically checking in by itself I
don't know I think what would Vlad think
Vlad saying like the people around you
can hear you talking right glad no no
what what I mean is okay the analogy is
this when okay there's the risk that
somebody could tap in and listen to your
instructions to your phone okay which is
kind of like touching your touch screen
and then your phone recognize your
fingerprints and then potentially
sending them up somebody else okay so
you know how's that risk with the touch
screen first of all that risk is already
there like there are rootkits for phones
that will all turn the microphone on and
listen to what you're doing so that
that's number one number two like the
thing that is changing here is that the
microphone is on locally listening for
you to say okay Google now and then it
will take your voice search the only
thing that's different is you don't have
to push a button but you'd have to push
a power button push your unlock code
push long press the button press the
microphone and then do it which made me
as which make me ask why can't any
Android phone do this now like it seems
to me like that's just a natural
extension of Google now like maybe that
is what we're seeing a future version of
Android 4.3 with Google now that's
always listening no no I I know the
answer that the answer is that and
Motorola has been very careful to say
this ever since woodside first announced
X at all etta at d11 there are a number
of low power sensors that are
specifically designed for the X and I
get what he's saying because if you
leave if you just leave the microphone
on twenty-four/seven on a you know a
run-of-the-mill android phone your
battery life is gonna plummet right okay
I've got a special low power microphone
that's waiting and then it hears you and
then it activates the real microphone to
take your search maybe that could be now
makes sense and like Google now sneaking
in everywhere i gotta say i don't want
google now everywhere because the google
now card design snuck onto the google
play Web Store for Android so bad it is
the worst it's so bad what was I
thinking what it's like I opened it up
in my browser this morning and I'm like
why do I need these giant
friendly buttons on my desktop web
browser it's like I guess it's good if
you're visiting from a tablet or toe
then it should be delivered to like that
on a tablet but you know yeah then you
like to be using a Windows 8 and we all
know that every Windows 8 device
concerts a screen are things like web
pages are awesome because you can have
text links they can be information dense
and you can do like stuff and that gives
you more power to like be widget II and
nerdy and look at lots of data on a
single screen and they just took all
that and went got rid of it and replace
it with these big giant icon card things
that like it takes toys it takes as long
to do anything on the desktop in the
store as it did as it does on an android
phone it's also super buggy like and
kept it kept timing out on me right and
on top of all of that android sucks so
hard at updating new phone or getting
like when you set up a new phone giving
you all your apps back like like they
just randomly don't show up for me and
I've got to go through and manually
install go through all my installed apps
and manually install them from the web
page like it's gonna be impossible now
it's bad but let me tell you something
the iOS ipod make your process is no
walk in the park like it's kind of
hilarious when you first restore a phone
for my cloud because you first of all
you like eight modal dialogues that
interrupt each other saying like you
know your passwords missing your
password is incorrect blah blah blah for
all these different services and then
like it'll try for a second to download
your 800 apps and they'll be like up we
give up try connecting it to your
computer and then you just let it chill
there for a day or two and eventually
all your absolute show up yeah so that's
natural interaction isn't it it's like
just had a cheer for dad to it answer
back so actually yeah Usher bring his
back quickly to the point about smaller
flagships because we've got a very
teasing tweet from one of the hcp are
people who was very noisy and he asked
people if we did the HTC One a smaller
size what price would you guys want to
that um and you gotta
set up with all this AC one mini rumor
leakage speculation stuff and pretty
much expect that phone to happen and I i
have is one of anticipating because i
have been asking for that kind of thing
that crystal same for a long time we all
have so if we get this HTC one mini to
pan out and the Moto X is in the same
sort of form factor and has a good user
experience there might be a little
resurgence in smaller form factors I'd
be in there so okay so my question is
like what are they going to do to the
Moto X and what are they gonna do to the
HTC mini to ruin them traditionally in
either a slow processor or a bad camera
or a combination of the two I'm not too
worried about slow processor anymore yes
because the mid-range processors
whatever that Snapdragon is is pretty
good right like I you mean Snapdragon
400 yeah it should be happy with it yeah
relatively um as long as the cameras are
good and the build quality is good like
we're there now you just want a google
play edition one mini oh yeah yeah yeah
well that's what like that might be that
rather than mess around with that
because you know I'm doing custom roms
on my one and I'm starting to get
annoyed with it like maybe I just get
the Moto X because it'll be closer to
stock and also just to mention a
completely countervailing point I think
it was the first couple of days there
was I heard the first room of a c1 max
yeah supposed to be we supposed to be a
6-inch beginneth yeah from the power
button on the top of the HTC one max
like nigga me they're gonna need to sell
it with one of those little toes coy toy
claws you know that you reach out no
they're gonna they're gonna sell it with
with that that mini bluetooth phone that
they sold the other thing with on China
oh yeah I Sony just announced one of
those two right glad you played with it
the Xperia Z ultra fine yeah and then if
i put mazza in but it has a bluetooth
handset to go to oh yes and its massive
if you know it was honestly it's like
it's like if you think back to like
2001-2002 or shrinking every phone
it's about that size so you're telling
me that you need a mini bluetooth
handset to pair to the big bluetooth
handset to bed to the Z ultra it's just
uh what's this breaks and said she
wanted to bring up oh yeah so apparently
speaking of Motorola phones verizon just
sent us out an invite to an event
actually next tuesday july twenty third
um so looks like we'll be seeing some
something from verizon got on the blue
motorola got to be the trolley those new
droids that have been leaked left and
right and up and down um so cool look
forward to that yeah yeah this is
totally the droids yeah for sure
undercutting actually brings back to
experience that ultra because that that
is again that is my definition of the
megaphone thing that i'm trying to push
I hate the saboteur but no megaphone is
worse no trust me listen I mean I don't
know why we don't call of ultra phones
but Microsoft took the term surface
which used to refer to that massive
$10,000 table and turned it into making
like my reference for service right now
is a tablet so all it takes is a
marketing push maybe your Twitter
campaign and then we can make it happen
we can make it's a mega mega phone is to
like there's too much positivity in that
term it needs to be something else what
was the thing I think the reason what is
there is a market for these phones and I
think there's a bit of a fragmentation
between the East and the West happening
right now where companies are
recognizing that Western consumers like
ourselves prefer smaller phones 4.4 inch
form factor but then they also continue
to recognize that there's a massive
market in Asia in China and Japan etc
where people want to have just one
device which is the compromises in
tablet form which is that 67 inch one
fact that's what the galaxy note is
proven and that's what the HD flat
didn't prove because it was wasn't that
much of a success but if you have a good
device in that foam fact that there is a
big market for unfortunate qualities you
want to call it mega phone instead of
what I prefer which is really I mean
which by the way what I want to call it
still shorter than the average
smartphone brand name from 2011 so think
that's true about you need some you need
some acronyms in there I think my term
is more culturally tolerant thorough
testing the newest Peter we just quickly
wrap up this well max it's supposed to
be six inches I supposed to have the
Snapdragon 800 two point three gigahertz
quad-core was most powerful mobile
processor yadda yadda yadda I mean it is
the opposite of what we might anticipate
from the one mini which might go for you
know tame aspects in the original one
this one max is probably going to try
max out every spec possible and I think
we can kind of read into it the dobie
stylus support because that's what so
many did with the experience at Ultra
this is actually one of the cool things
with it you can use a graphite pencil
and experience that ultra screen which I
and don't think you could have done with
any other phone and that's expected to
go which I think it's a temper time is
that ultra just you know long lead time
but then I think the same period is when
we can express pay to our maxed and
we're gets dissipate obviously Samsung's
Galaxy Note 3 which probably be another
III introduction in the beginner to
chamber so if you're after a massive
massive megaphone or oh really one of
those mothers day dinner is probably
going to invest on to the play well on
the blackberry yeah I got a 5-inch yeah
five there's be smaller to some rumor of
we seen we've seen pictures and video
this thing 720p display a 5 inches ah
come on call me thrilled I mean you know
so it's find a kind of amusing
opposition on sprint because then he'll
feel to be like man twice just sure but
what I find amusing about it is that so
far mark a black race marketing campaign
has focused a lot of like one-handed use
using blackberry 10 do everything with
your thumb and i'm pretty sure that goes
all out the window and you have a 5-inch
display problem you can see to do it
with your thumb you just have to holding
you one hand and just
I'm a girl as beautiful however actually
have to try that oh we also saw pictures
of the optimus g2 I think we have in
video yeah and it's weird because it's
got buttons on the back of it yeah like
it's happened last week I think this
happened during our show show right yeah
so we didn't get a chance to complain or
talk about it but well let's just get
that chance go this time as well yeah
man I don't even know I mean well did
anyone has anyone used a Google Maps got
revamp huge on Android and finally seen
this is a redesign that brings the card
like interface like Jeter song about
essentially it puts google maps for iOS
on android which google has been
promising to do for a while and now
already goodbye to my google maps kawaii
mrs. Olsen Google Apps is really good
for blood there's some really big
concessions with the Android version a
lot of things have been stripped out
initially when it first was released
okay so they stripped out everything
that sucked they struggle everything
that sucked and yes my maps dude there's
two things that they stripped out that
didn't suck it was the local maps
offline maps and it was I guess if you
were into latitude like having to go and
like I know a lot of people weren't a
fan of it but you know it was kind of
convenient for some people and pretty
neat and now that's all getting pushed
into Google Plus which is a huge bummer
but like the my map stuff that local
deal stuff like all that stuff is just
garbage like they get they got rid of so
much extra time I don't know my mouse it
my maps was a thing where you could like
save specific routes and and maps right
to your account and then access the
month ago yeah I mean you I don't know
what you're but I don't know a lot of
people are missing it I'm pretty you see
you able to precache maps online you
Susan doesn't say when you can't you
it's not it's not very you like they
originally hit it as a cookie you'd have
to type in ok maps or something which is
ridiculous then they added as a
which you can only find if you tap on
the search field and then scroll down
which is also ridiculous and it's not
like it's not clear to me if you can
save multiple areas or not like I saved
one area if I save another area does
overwrite the previous area like it was
stupid but like as long as they add it
in the next few months like all is
forgiven because there were load
literally one two three different menus
and like maybe even more that you could
pull up on the old maps and it was
completely insane yeah the old maps
worked very well as far as mapping and
directions but the interface of it was
just like so reminiscent of like where
Android was years ago and it was not
where Android is now and it's in it and
the new one is brought it right up to
speed as far as interface and design and
also just to actually get back to my
earlier defense of Google mixing
services can you guys actually remember
Google i/o and just how much stuff
Google got through in terms of here's
our social networking products here's
our desktop products is our mobile
products I mean they just have a
three-hour key to it yeah I mean it was
just epic it was like if there's
anything that you guys do with
technology we want to be in touch with
it we're gonna have our fingers in that
pie oh whatever valves a new version of
Android yeah yeah I mean will be so
unreasonable for us to want one of those
uh but when you think of that Bob when
you think about that when you record
that event it gotta become sensible that
Google would start cutting things out I
mean obviously we're not going to agree
with every one of its cuts but if google
keeps adding and adding and adding all
of these services which I don't agree I
think most of them are like not going to
be useful things Phylly but if Google's
going to keep expanding like that you
kind of have to anticipate that some of
these old things are going to fall by
the wayside so I guess maybe I'm kind of
arguing against myself now if you miss a
ball so I guess makes sense yeah what
I'm saying is that yeah you can
anticipate that things that Google
doesn't judge to be too successful which
is going to go by the wayside but i also
think anybody who's as ambitious as
google is maybe Microsoft will try and
emulate that kind of thing is going to
experience the same thing it's just
going to be a case of use the most
popular service around if you want to be
sure that it's not going to just
disappear overnight i don't know i think
google reader was the most popular RSS
reader around yeah I was gonna say
that's yeah but who actually uses our
accessories my god what I'm done with
you seriously 2013 guys I'm not bc i
forgot it was gonna dress like i was an
article on this website called the verge
about how Twitter can't be the new RSS
and about the value that RSS has for
regular people somebody really smart
wrote it you should check it out i think
it's called why RSS still matters from
back in March you should take a look at
it watch man i mean we're talking about
today this is ridiculous ok man are you
so much massive expensive thing and you
want to consume it via this protocol and
just shove it into compendium I I make I
not I cannot have this argument with I
can't tell me he's rolling is that I
don't know I know flat doesn't use
Twitter as I am I literally guards as
Billy's never on Twitter I'm gonna do
Diane dude I over right now to you Vlad
from marched from back in March I liked
over and over again I just can't I spent
an extraordinary mountain amounts of
time on Twitter I just don't tweet so
much I try to be cognizant of the fact
that there are people like Chris in my
followers timeline and Chris freaking
life to his life calling me on hey guys
have you guys seen real carrot facts
yeah
oh yeah yeah carrot facts was I have a
theory that that it's vlad he says it's
not is like it must be i mean i'm
allowed to do that it would be about
colors of carrots what's the verdict on
carrots guilty of being good for you
come on this is so good start the
weekend off right by eating a dry carrot
and solitude it's the best of Ludwick i
will say does follow real k thanks why
do we tweeted during the the show by the
way oh really yeah yeah okay doesn't a
piece of evidence that goes just my five
I will find out I just want to tweet
something like I don't know neighborhood
of pavements like Peter so you can do
himself to be UK person okay yeah here's
my question each other when it's spelled
the same mission do we need RSS in order
to enjoy those beautiful beautiful piece
of wisdom we did it no but does that
mean like like there are lots of things
you don't need RSS for that's that I
thought I like the incident you just
don't need it I gonna see nervous is I
listen stop it stop and listen to the
truth RSS is a tool for democracy okay
it is a tool for people that aren't
coders to get access to data out of
websites without having to learn how to
mess with an API and in fact some of
these sites aren't even offering api's
anymore and you have facebook and google
to thank for it because they started the
trend and then twitter followed along
and they got rid of their RSS and so now
like you know grabbing information out
of sight and doing something interesting
with it is getting harder and it's
because RSS is getting deprecated and
I'm not saying I'm dedicated to this
particular form of XML there's ours to
theirs Adam there's like whatever
whatever you want pubsubhubbub
but it's a way for like you to get
something from a site without having to
visit the site okay but that's a bit as
a point that we're losing as the point I
think that's bad thing oh you should be
visiting sites okay because again all
right maybe this is idealist but good
web design should be forced on to be
with the faster that's one point and an
era says is like a way to avoid web
design and just get to the content and
the second thing is if you don't visit
the site you don't look at the
advertising and so many websites rely on
advertising money you know it's suppose
it's just about blog posts and news
stories it's about anything that you can
like put out on the internet any kind of
content ok can you give you an example
go to if this then that calm and look at
all the recipes that they've got set up
there it's kind of amazing and like a
lot of that is powered by open web
standards and RSS like okay I'm gonna
give that turn on that angry we got
anything else so I brought it up and
then we got cut off but does anybody
want to say anything about sprint nextel
is no sprint corporation and Softbank is
owned about them I mean I would like to
say something about it okay I didn't
know until that press release came out
that sprint was still officially called
sprint nextel didn't realize that that's
all well I I think if there's been one
consistent theme to this today's
forecast is been that we passionate
sprint I feel kind of bad about that
trial kind of bad they do track now I
feel kind of bad until I use a sprint
phone and then I don't feel so good
anymore well yeah I mean it just takes
five minutes trying to get something
done on sprint evdo realized that
there's nothing to feel bad about
remember back in the day when like
sprint was out there with EBD oh yes
cutting edge and they had you sighs the
best phones I used to tether with my pre
and get like almost 2 megabits I'm
kakatiya for the pre i'm talking like
6700
though HTC's other stuff like it was so
good yes I did love my my mobile which
was a PPC 6800 Yeah right I was pretty
dope phone they just man that that wimax
thing see you at that phone i actually
paid 299 that on contract I want to say
someone is probably gonna correct me on
this but I want to say that sprint also
sold the first bluetooth enabled phone
in the US I might be completely updated
don't know they did there was an LG I
definite was an Elgort is an bluetooth
gsm phone before right well yeah i think
they were the first carrier but it was
an LG phone that slid open uh and it was
it was the first bluetooth phone carried
by us oh speaking of sliding they also
sold the matrix phone the samsung matrix
phone which I own it was garbage
seriously I didn't know they even made a
gsm version of FF impressed that
pivoting camera that i had it was a
clamshell and had a pivoting camera
which you could it could be from face in
a back face wait wait wait wait no no it
is this spring the sprint matrix was
slider and yet aah black and white ears
oh that was that extra futuristic woman
okay yeah I can still see neo like it
pops out he's like ah like that mo it
got phone so awesome yeah it was funny
like that was one of the the first great
like uh like movie cross branding
moments for the mobile industry because
like I don't think they expected that
Nokia phone in the first one that
generates such a huge buzz and then
Samsung obviously saw that and then
jumped on it yeah well the difference is
that the new kid banana phone is
actually a freaking iconic design which
was awesome ring ring yeah they made um
I think that most versions of that phone
didn't have the the spring-loaded slider
right like most of them are just like
you you manually push them out but the
one in the movie is the spring load yeah
i mean i've talked in okay designers and
they say they might have some of those
two hanging around over there in
finland's i would love to run those
phones heck yeah yeah what were those
are some gentlemen oh I'm cut
we wait no well now we're on nostalgia
yeah okay this is the happy part of the
show dieter yeah this is our nostalgia
moment in fact I'm trademarking that
every show and in a nostalgia moment
ramen uh you know I've got a I've got a
future nostalgia moment I wish I could
talk about but I'm not gonna but
continued a future nostalgia moment
would just be the present wouldn't it no
it's a it's a nostalgia for a different
kind of moment oh let's uh that's
foreboding yeah um no I was gonna say
and what was the remember nokia had a
brand i can't believe i can't remember
the name oh they had a brand for like
their high-end non-virtue phones what
was it oh god I hate you uh like the
chrome slider yeah I don't remember yeah
well anyway I want some of those if
anyone if any nokia employees are
listening to me and don't hate me um get
in touch i would love to buy one of
those devices from you as soon as you
know if you want to do if you were to do
a class on set theory and how
intersecting two sets that don't have
the same things gives you an empty dokey
employees who don't hate chrissy it
would be a small set I admit worst case
scenario i'll just tweet at s Elop yeah
you hook you up yeah yeah yeah okay i'm
done with my nostalgia mom okay and that
is real thank you last week's last week
showed did we talk about elope shoes
what no I work they were no words he was
wearing yellow chucks at nokia's of it
they had happened yet oh this was a
theme for all the nokia employees there
the lot of the staff had like all black
outfits with yellow belts and yellow
chucks and then the the imaging experts
on stage with Elop had yellow chucks it
was a really amazing event and
everything what it was what great except
for your inability to recognize there's
between reality and virtual really it
wasn't it was kind of like I don't want
to say the word I want to say on it on
our show but it was like a mind
freak will say that uh because like it
had this screen this projection screen
more like three times on this show so so
it totally gave me a mindfuck and it had
this in projection screen where they
were projecting the stuff and then all
of a sudden that the room goes dim and
Elop comes out and he's like behind this
screen but it looks like a 3d thing
going on because his screen in front of
you and projections are still happening
on the screen while he's behind the
screen and then all of a sudden that
lifts up and he was like oh it's easy
there in person and then at the end of
the show of the show at the end of the
event the screen behind Stephen Elop
which was displaying all their demos and
stuff actually splits in half like this
and you just like look down this long
corridor where they had all of their
demo stations and things like that set
up it was pretty is pretty rad yeah I
think it's the only moment in verge
liveblog history where a writer was
unable to determine whether a person was
real or not yes that was me I think I
think that that description applies to
the entire Qualcomm keynote at sea this
is true this is true I will grant you
that yeah um goodbye everybody thank you
for watching or listening to the Virgin
Mobile show if you want to follow us on
twitter you can and should earlier
earlier we had an Eli who is reckless I
am back lon dan is DC seifert with an e
I Chris's said power but not with the ed
Vlad is flat Sabbath we are all at verge
and next week maybe probably we'll see
bye
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