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The Verge Mobile Show 054 - July 16th, 2013

2013-07-16
greetings mobile accomplishes welcome to the verge mobile show it's up to the 50 for the week of July fifteenth 2013 I am dieter bohn I'm glass seventh i'm dan seifert and i'm very similar wait what just happened I said I'm very angry well you are very ignorant but but that's that's par for the course Neil I that's nothing unusual knee level hello so you're here Neil I to express your rage at AT&T so the context we're going to jump right into this because knee like to have to go pretty soon is t-mobile announced a new plan that it called jump and then 18t came back and had its own thing called next and basically these are what their plans lets you like least phones and upgrade more often for a certain amount of money per month I'm oversimplifying yes we could really get into the nitty-gritty of it so we start with t-mobile and try and explain what it is they're doing and then we can go into I att's response insane everybody thinks so except for Chris I think that's probably Dan where you were at the tmobile event yeah yes I was explaining this jump thing to me uh so jump is t-mobile's method to let you upgrade your device sooner than say every 18 to 24 months which people have been used to for a couple years ah it's a monthly program that you pay 10 bucks a month for and then you can upgrade your device every 12 months or earlier if you've been or I believe every six months as long as you've been in the program for six months you can upgrade and then you can do this two times a year right maximum um and so when when I say upgrade that's like a terrible carrier made up term but it means that you can buy a new phone and a discounted price just like a new customer would get so if you buy your iphone 5 now and pay say a hundred dollars for it today and you join the jump program in six months you can get a new phone uh for the same hundred-dollar discounted price and you trade in your eye your current iphone right so that's the thing right is like right now when I my 24 months is up and I am allowed to buy a new phone and get a new subsidy on a new phone which I think like that that's what we should call it instead of like upgrade it's just be you get to get a new subsidy hooray I get to keep my old phone but with this program I get to do it twice a year but I've got to hand over my phone so like it's elyse right so you pain like the sixties on the rental fee for the six months well and you're actually making payments on the phone and I guess at the end of it just like when you lease a car you can pay off the rest and keep it instead of trading it in is that right why is this so confusing you probably could do that but that's certainly not the intent and my guess is that you'd want to go off of jump if that was your intention okay so okay the other thing is cool jumpers it's an insurance plan right yeah so it includes your kind of your standard insurance these days so if you drop in and break it or you lose your phone or you get it wet or whatever whatever you do to your phone and you need to replace it then you pay a deductible and they will replace the phone for you yeah so I mean the thing I was so excited about with tmobile before when they first did their uncarrier stuff is if you had asked me you know two years ago to design what I think a smartphone plans have looked like it would have basically looked like what t-mobile did here's the cost of your data here's a costume minutes and here's what your subsidy costs if you want to get a subsidy and when you're done paying it off you're dumb and so it was very clean and simple and easy and now they've got me like breaking out a spreadsheet and planning out future purchases for phones of and I that I don't know whether or not they exist and I guess that's cool if you're really into excel but it's like it it doesn't stray carrier I don't know maybe maybe I'm being cynical about it that's a quote right there that's cool if you really need to excel I mean and who's not can we hear from the ghostly figure of Neil I who's back lit himself so much there yeah yeah we might hear you my video off no your videos on your dark shadowy figure oh I see evan is just not switching to me so look t-mobile's like it'sit's I get what you're saying but you only have to do the math and all the spreadsheet stuff if you want to like participate in their games but if you just want to like buy a phone like a nexus 4 and put it on tmobile you get a phone for 279 you don't pay a device subsidy every month what's baked into the plan which is pretty much like all that they're doing right like that's that's the big innovation for t-mobile's they took the device subsidy and they pulled it out of the plan and said this is how much our device subsidy costs if you want to participate in these programs and then they're saying if you want to upgrade faster you can pay essentially pay a higher subsidy which is fine and I don't like the reselling the phones like that's really wonky I think for regular people it's you can pay a higher subsidy and get a new phone more often which is what people want to do if you compare that to what eighteen t is doing with next they're like the subsidy is still baked into the plan and you're paying like basically installments on the full price of the phone too hot further hide the fact that ATT is charging you a monthly device subsidy that you've never been able to like say no to or get away from and that's like that's really the problem with ATT's plan is that t-mobile's like we're going to transparently break down all these costs for you and you can pay whichever ones you want in eighteen t is like we're gonna hide the biggest trick that we've ever pulled by offering you some other money that you can pay which is well first of all I would contend it's not the biggest trick 18t has ever pulled they've pulled far bigger ok so eighties plan compared to t-mobile's plan is like the cost is variable depending on which phone you get you get to upgrade every year but you know but that that subsidy is that is hidden in the cost of their plans from the get-go sort of never goes away right and you don't get the option to pay off the rest your phone keep it at that year part at the end of a year agt has definitely collected the full price of the phone from you like that much is so obvious just to clarify that last point dieter you can pay these installments ahead of time and and pay off the full value of the phone but but you you might as well have just bought the phone at full price for them yeah well but no but but but ok so what we're missing is that people don't want to just buy the phone right no like no regular American wants to just buy the phone they want the the the easiest path to the best and when I say best I mean biggest phone i'm not spending as little upfront as they possibly can and for those people whether it's a good deal or not next is absolutely going to appeal to them i know most people are going to be screwed it's it's the it's the Barons rent-a-center model right like you don't have to pay anything upfront and you are paying an obscenely amount for the phone every month or the device or whatever and yeah you can buy it at the end of the end of the year or whatever having paid all that extra money but but i think the other nuance of the other new I the other nuance that we're missing here is that the simple act of choosing AT&T or Verizon of your carrier has already doomed you to being screwed the only question is how badly and where you want to be screwed I'm and I will I will plainly admit that next is a particularly severe form of being screwed by AT&T but at the bottom line and we've been talking about this all day before the mobile show started but with 18 tease postpaid it and with verizon's and with sprints for that matter you have no option but to pay but so here's the thing I think that's going to change I think this is the sort of thing that leads that to changing your Chris was gonna say you have no option but to pay the subsidy baked into the price but that has to change right because they can't I don't think they can actually compete with t-mobile and like the smaller region as for as long as long as long as long as you can t and verizon have three times as many customers as t-mobile it's not going to change yeah yeah I think you need I have been watching too many Occupy Wall Street documentaries or something I don't know oh my god don't think look I know you're anticipating some form of consumer activism which just isn't going to materializes is very much the way to Chris describes it he says it's not the biggest trick atts of a code and I want to agree with it and so far as AT&T didn't do it by itself but the whole premise the whole pre-programming that we have in our heads that I'm getting a phone with my car tract as opposed to I'm getting a phone and then I'm getting a contract separately splicing those two things together is the one thing that keeps carriers so profitable and the thing that keeps us so screwed and now ATT just you know its a rating on top of that its refining the screwing process really that's so this really happening yeah I look at I look at these moves as like there's two motivational factors and they're both exactly what glad said that it's about money number one people seem to want to upgrade more often and for whatever reason everybody pushed their full you know upgrade plan to 24 months so they needed to find a way to continue to make money and get the money that they're getting for subsidies but still let people upgrade every year so they came up this and honestly the second thing is the the secondary market for phones is exploding there was a great article huffington post last week about like just how insane the market for stealing and selling stolen cellphones is yeah and and these these companies like they're leaving money on the table by not getting back these phones when they're less than two or even three years old and finding a way to resell them to somebody else in some way and so those two things put together they needed to put together a plan to keep making money on subsidies keep Americans feeling like they're not paying the full price of a phone right away and get in on the secondary market for phones and you put all those things together and you get AT&T with this plan that is like I mean we can on next you can conceivably play and for like I think for the 64 gig iphone 5 you could conceivably be paying fifty dollars a month for that phone on next right that's the high end of their service fee which is insane if you're the sort of person who's going to end up paying fifty dollars a month for a new phone because you want a new phone in here you should definitely just buy the phone outright at retail and resell it after year and I don't know why ATT thinks that they can get away with this why people are so stupid that they're gonna fall for that I mean people are stupid right I mean the if these rent-a-center places make money hand over fist because people are stupid and they want it now and and they don't think about the monthly recurring cost the way that I see this is I think 18t has figured out a way to get you to continue to pay that that high monthly rate plan and get normal people who aren't thinking about paying full price for a smartphone to actually pay full price for a smartphone in addition to the the high monthly rate plan with the baked in subsidies like what I think that's exactly right they're making pay twice I mean it is appalling like just flat-out appalling to me but you already have two day twice you already have to pay to unless you're under a contract for an 18 key branded device you are already paying twice which would be ninety-nine percent of eighteen t customers are there on write a contract for an 18 teen training device that they've got AT&T two hundred dollars and page or even or not right I mean if you had your getting ready T you are paying the device subsidy one way or the other so as long as you expect to be on stuck on this network for the next two years you might as well like get some subsidized phone at some point so that at least you're getting a little bit bad should get it every 24 months whenever you're able yes as soon as you're able to you should get that unsubsidized phone yeah the lies you looking at something um if you recall ATT part of his big pitch when I try to take over t-mobile was to say that in ec mobile spectrum middle devotee in order to be able to compete etc etc and first of all it's my impression that agency will not be able to pull this kind of crap if you'd actually have legitimate competition and second of all I mean this is a follow-up do we could come back to ATT is LTE rollout seems we go pretty well from what I understand and it doesn't seem to have been impacted by the failure to quad tmobile what's the weather I mean we we don't know where it would be had they acquired t-mobile at this point but yeah I mean there's four companies that matter and their number two in their roll out yeah I mean if we're comparing it to horizon which is their their competition here like they are getting pantsed I mean I drive around and I you know I go out of the boonies and I get I've got verizon LTE literally everywhere I go yeah I've yet to not see right I'm sure it's not lately and AT&T drops you know you drop into HSPA all the time yeah anything he's the worst that's why I continue to pay them every month hundreds of dollars I really feel like 18t deserves to me as a customer like every time I write something negative about eighteen t I get people ask me why it on switch and it's like literally it's because I am a customer of AT&T that complete I feel completely validated in pointing out over and over again that they are like out to screw people and so is horizon I pay verizon to the only company that I don't pay for service from right now is sprint and that's because I it's it's hard to do anything except pity sprint we made it his neck point was it two weeks ago is it you just got to pat him on the back and say ride you know that's gonna be great you wasted a billion dollars building wimax that but you know my thinking is the point of d2 raised of our companies getting phones back within a year's time so they can resell them capture that more conceptual I think that's actually not such a terrible motivation at all because I do feel like if the carrier's themselves get involved in the recycling of phones within a year's time when they'll still be desirable to people at a lower price point it's actually really good you know what I mean but if you're if you're playing this game of upgrading your phone every 12 months or every six months you should be the one taking advantage of that you should be the one to adventure that you had with that kind of assumes that people care enough to you know get into it etc look what I'm saying i'm willing to pay these carriers to deal with the hassle of not having to put something on ebay or craigslist it's like when you go trade in your car when you buy a new one you could sell it yourself on your front lawn for probably twice as much or you can just trade it in and let them deal with it yeah but i have to disagree with DJ so it doesn't come down to how much you wouldn't pay it should come down to price competition between the carriers and this is this is my big problem this is why i was referencing the LTE strongman that AT&T was directing with tmobile these American carriers consistently screw you guys we will discuss her already but if you actually had legitimate competition going on there's no reason why your prices shouldn't be matching the ones that we have here in Europe and there's no reason why something like these up to 12 months you get a recycling system of some sort going on there's no reason why they shouldn't be affordable and reasonable to the consumer whereas at the moment t-mobile is extremely convoluted at ATT is just pissed eight from what I understand yeah well look it's literally because you can't move devices between carriers in this country which you can do to some limited extent Europe right so I'll to a great extent particular in the UK yeah but you just can't and that's that's the end of it and that's the end of it yeah that's and that's why sprint blew a billion dollars in wimax to no effect because we suck at setting standards and with that I have to go the at the end but the end of the day ATT is cheating you and in this I can't I cannot tell you like when i read the next pricing how angry i became he is mad he was i mean it's it's just it's so predatory I mean the r you keep comparing it to rent a center and that's what it is it's utterly predatory lending at like absurd right so if you do the math and something like they're charging you essentially thirty percent interest on the phone over the course of however many months actually I think it's like the short change artists did you see that thing that leaked us on Twitter now is just like a demonstration of how a short change artists works yeah the South Park thing yeah yeah it's like that's exactly what it is like oh this seems like a good deal okay I'm with you I'm with you and at the end of the day you have a samsung galaxy s4 that's running TouchWiz and you're out eight hundred dollars and that's what I have to say a handful of pues si se thing is different but you only have it for 12 months I'm sorry Chris okay I have to go goodbye everybody thanks for joining me luck yeah all right now that he's gone Christy do you want to defend the corporate monster cuz i know you're you you think this is a good plan because you you probably believe in leasing expensive cars to know it's it's not no it is not that i think that it's a good plan it's that this is nothing that we should have not expected from AT&T nor should we expect the average american to not love it and buy into it then that is the point that I'm trying to make this is an average a screw over by AT&T not a particularly agreed to screw over see I don't know I'm your average I go in to AT&T I really want this new phone I hear they've got some plan where I can do it and the rep is like yeah I got you here's what you do here's a new phone and you only need to do blank XX for a month and I got to think a lot of people will just like see that added cost at the end of their bill and say yeah like at some point we've got to realize there's no free lunch and I don't know like I really hope that actually ok so both AT&T and Verizon rumored plan even though they're terrible I'd like to think that I can see them as a good sign that they are seeing things change and that t-mobile's uncarrier crap is having an impact well i don't know i mean you know that they are they are but they're they're substituting like legit plans with extremely illegitimate like con artist plants right but if lace collars and plans fail they'll have to follow up with legit plans later yeah in theory but the problem is that like a teen teen verizon are too big to fail like there's very little incompetency at the marketing level or like the logistics level that either those companies could perform that would cause them to to like flounder to the point where like they were in danger of becoming the number three carrier right well that is the definition of a duopoly as far as I'm concerned like they can move it up bad enough to bright number three right you know that's that's like I was saying before as long as they have three times as many customers as t-mobile they really don't have to change all that much they can like do these surface things and make maybe make their Loper a brand perception a little better but at the end of the day uh you know 60 million people are not leaving verizon and AT&T to join t-mobile okay what's really amusing to me about this entire conversation is how cheery and smiling Chris's while he's describing the most dystopian vision ever like this is pretty average is it as far as you know raped by Cary agos this is great no this is that this is the final conclusion like we have reached the ends to lick that the perfect end stages of capitalism here and I'm that that's something that we should that you know as Americans we should be celebrating and that that's why I'm happy about well I just want to say I think cuz we're wrapping up the talk on these things is that the if there's any like bright point that you can look at this if you are AT&T customer and you like need ATT's network for whatever reason like me uh and you want a new phone every six to twelve months just by phone full rice and go on a go phone plan because you can get the same services for like thirty to forty percent cheaper and not have to give your phone back to you that's universally good advice they always buy the phone separately I mean phones are expensive people just accept I really want to switch to a go home would that be weird it sounds super weird to me and I'm like super apprehensive about it but ATT did enable LTE coverage with their go phone plans recently it's like sixty dollars a month or sixty seventy dollars a month gives you unlimited talk text and three gigabytes a date look if we all practice if we all practice what we preach we all would have switched a simple mobile like a year and a half ago no kitty man no butBut HIV a plus 42 I in like you know son nobody's interested but this hspa+ 42 is great and it's awesome in urban areas where it exists in the size is not so patronize is great oh you do great then great you know folks up guys do before ride this out though I have to come early quickly you talk about a leap and Craig a weekend but I have to introduce my fast 6 analogy because actually when i watch the damn movie and okay I have Burleson is brilliant not the movie the analogy is pretty oh let the movie too according to Chris but ok everybody knows it's in the trailer I'm not spoiling anything there's a scene where car jumps out of the front of an airplane it explodes out of the front of the net plane and to any regular human being that is like okay laws of physics reasonable as etc etc that just doesn't make any sense but the thing is once you watch the entire movie and as a particular scene involving a flying headbutt okay once we watch entire movie that scene of the car exploding out of the airplane Asia is completely conventional to you like even myself I was like yeah yeah that makes sense in the context of this entire movie syntax person just said that car flying out of the airplane perfect sense so I feel like that's the way you guys are you just being immersed in this stock employ tation scenario yeah and now you can't even recognize when you beat abused like I need to come over there and save you guys I'm gonna bring over some I don't know prudential sick i bring over some network yeah look there's an element as community and i have to like I you know I don't want to be a cheerleader for any particular brand or carrier too much but you do have to really respect t-mobile's efforts to swear their way to success on the back of Jon ledger looked at their they're doing everything they can to point out the ridiculousness of what's going on the in the industry and they are the only ones as I mentioned before that are discounting if you're not taking advantage of it I called a subsidy but really it's the monthly payment plan now um and and that's that you know that that's absolutely where the industry should be going I'm just not convinced unlike Neil I'm not convinced that a ATT and Verizon are ever in our lifetimes going to be incentivized to do that yeah I can't say that I am either well crap meteor awesome what about so ok ATT wants to buy leap you know them has cricket and like it's basically they want to spend a ridiculous amount of money to get just a little bit of spectrum here and there as far as I can tell like ATT is just desperate to get whatever spectrum it can now that I can't have tmobile like this doesn't seem like like a great deal to me well so my thinking I think that 18 he is thinking about the strategically and they're thinking about about it from two perspectives one of course there's the additional spectrum which may or may not be overvalued to there's the potentially more important issue for them of keeping that AWS spectrum out of the hands of t-mobile and Verizon both of whom are now using AWS right um and and AWS is a scarce resource I mean spectrum in general is obviously scarce resource but AWS in particular its kind of all been spoken for at this point and three uh it like they mentioned in the press release it gives them a lot of additional credibility and prepaid like you know we're all talking about go phone here but what you know you don't see gophone really advertised anywhere you don't see go phone like in an AT&T corporate owned store like it's there but it's like it's under like the counters it like a little bubble packs of phone they blow the dust off of them and right yeah 18 th doesn't have a lot of credibility and prepaid and obviously buying creek cricket gives them a lot of that credibility so I think it's kind of they're looking at it from that perspective and bundled together I think they feel that it's worth that amount of money whether it actually is i don't know i'm not a CFO sorry I'm just checking my AT&T account to see if I'm out of contract and I can get away and I I'm I think I'm stuck in my contract until the fall because I I reached at last time I signed a contract was for the iphone 4s god this is just the worst website ever yeah good luck finding that date by the way I was trying to find some information on the go phone plans on 1880s website earlier today tins not nothing I think you can actually do it from the my 18 th if you have it installed on your phone I do because I love being tracked believe me you're being tracked either way so actually what I really want to do is port my number to google voice now you do not want it but there's no way I really trust the latest a year ago I would have said yeah go for it and then like years past and nothing's happened with google voice and it's becoming increasingly like I mean I know they they say they're going to integrate with hangouts and hangouts at the future voice but it also just has nagging feeling in the back of my mind if you get like spring cleaning yeah they're gonna so unhappy they're gonna spring clean it and then they're going to give you like you know 15 days or something to port your number away and then there's going to be this mad rush this fire drill that's going to inundate the the Federation system that all the carriers used to like interchange numbers and it's going to break down and then nobody's gonna be able to call anyone else and then there's gonna be the apocalypse is is exactly what's gonna happen also testing this myth Google spring cleaning all the time like myth is it's not like no is it yes I mean it's not a myth I've even Google Reader like a big example the google reader was the biggest story of the first six months of this year the fact that it's shutting down okay okay dan just a reminder is 2013 it's an RSS reader there are other ways to look at the web okay who was using latitude like extensively anyway and you can check in with Google+ now so but my point is I'm not saying Google doesn't spring cleaning things out of its services but it's like okay let's not call it at me let's call it a mean that everybody is kind of spreading around at the moment where is Apple is famous for doing that cutting off backwards compatibility when it decides okay we've had enough of this we're going to go switch it up this way and as happy we're giving Apple credit for that because it moves is acknowledging forward I mean that's more on the hardware side and so to aside Microsoft has done similar things but make microsoft is the worst example that I can give because he also has Isis customers who it's uh you know it does support maybe bigger one IC point and maybe it's an irrational fear but you can't like I it's just like he keeps coming up and especially when it's like you know it when when google reader's announcement happened it was like a bullet list item four lines down and it was like one line in amongst all this other kind of minor stuff like you mentioned latitude and all these other things that were like not applicable to me but like there's one line that says oh yeah we're shutting down google reader as of july first see ya and it was like just that like kind of flippancy about it about what was you know one of Google readers or Google's major services that was just like being fair enough I mean okay the thing that's driving me crazy right now is yeah like I it seems too risky to move my phone number to google voice but then I'm frustrated like oh I want to switch to mobile but then I've got this little string of digits that I just can't get rid of and come on come on how annoying is that like that I'm so dependent on this number that a bunch of people know I don't really know how to solve disposable problem but all I'm really saying about Google is that this is one of the most massive companies that we have around and if you're gonna worry about a service terminating I don't think the fact that google is offering it is a reason to cause you to worry I understand I understand that you can feel jaded about the way just kind of squeezed out the great information but nobody this is why I brought up the importance of this stupid little number is right there's there's a level of importance this number has for me and like I can't have it screwed with exactly there's Google's willingness to screw with stuff willy-nilly and those two things you put that plug them into the equation and what comes out on the other side is right now it feels kind of stupid to give like it's it's not like it's not like your phone number is some like social network that's here for five years and gone after that like it's something that you know is use day in and day out for business and personal communication and things like it's like a core piece of communication now I do you like giving up my snapchat name it's not exactly yeah mm well so nine times I'd spent on snapchat might I point was and I absolutely am NOT that that is the thing that is completely passing by might I point was just to say that Google isn't doing it in a willing native fashion but I guess we just agree to disagree what I want to do though we're going for the first half hour podcast and we haven't talked about any hardware sign to h2 server hardware we've been very us centric I mean google voice doesn't even exist for us here in the UK so I'm like worried about google voice pleasures of a more international let's talk about some handsets can do that how about we talk about a camera what if we talk about both oh I see what you did there we're talking about the galaxy s4 camera again right no mercy on all right lumia 1020 nokia lumia 1020 available in the US because we're us-centric here sorry but it's a July 26 299 on contract no word on what it costs on a next phone actually I think you can figure it out it's too much a full retail price / 20 so whatever um so okay I have a touch one glad you have is it Dan you have who has who's too I I have a kiss then just yeah so on the surface it's a it's a 920 it looks almost exactly like a 920 from the front the screen is the same size very very similar design and things like that of course it all changes on the back side where you have this giant disk and the 41-megapixel logo and the PureView camera and it's the you know nokia has been promising to do this for ever since the 808 PureView came out so you think we've been waiting just over a year food and it works as advertised the I got to play with it very briefly at nokia's event and you know the photographs it's able to take are pretty awesome the video is able to take is like pretty mind-blowing and you can zoom in and see an incredible level of detail you can even like some of the crazy tricks that no keys doing is if you zoom in on your image before you take it so you can kind of like do your little pinch zoom move and you take your picture when you're reviewing the picture afterwards you can actually zoom out and see the whole scene that you didn't initially capture which is pretty cool um pretty neat feature uh and you know we haven't really tested it fully but based on our experience of the ADA way it should do great in low-light great in all kinds of photographic situations um so it's cool so sorry Dan but as notes clarify how nokia does this zoom in zoom that thing because it kind of sounds like magic and no key isn't really all that came to dispel the idea of magic and nuckie expertise but what what is essentially doing is this taking redundant photos so the first thing to say is yes it's photo a megapixel sensor just like with the aid of a few of you but it's a circular sense therefore you can never take photo 1 megapixel photos photos max out at 13 megapixels at a four by three aspect ratio and thirty five megapixels at a 16 by nine and I stopped right there that is the most annoying thing ever just pick one why is that this stupid music no just do make it four by three and stop give like you know and then chronicles fort 4 by 3 doesn't look at on your your HDTV well then do it then just do it it or any 16 by 9 phone whatever why like it's this one or this one like you've already got a messaging problem getting people to understand the difference between the 41 megapixels and then the 5 megapixels that you actually share and that is fact is that the thing and then on top of that you've got two more megapixel numbers just tossed in there for the hell of it no there's always being confusing that was one of the first things we ate away p of you is that you have to be an absolute anorak to keep track of all the mega pretzels whereas know they could have a very clear marketing message to say 35 and five so for as you get 35 highest resolution where your august sample you condense 7 pixels into one you get 5 megapixel photos but that that is functionally and ultimately what you really got to do like let's imagine for sake of argument you shoot you on a 16 by 9 this was going to happen you take a family picture photo you get the best quality that you can get at that resolution and at that size and then the phone itself takes a redundant 30 i make this photo in background and this is how you can zoom in and out so when you're doing this magical zooming in and out thing and qualities likely to change I suspect it's not going to be as good when you wanna you know zoom zoom out of 5 megapixel photo because you have a sampling effect isn't there anymore right up to the same degree but still I find out really attractive as a feature and I know everybody has been a big fan of the pro camera app oh my god it is you do it it's pretty awesome nobody I don't that's really really good it makes all of these easily accessible and more than that it makes it so you can play with these settings just you know on the fly see what you like and like it actually makes like the way that they've laid it out and that like they all kind of come across and then you can like move the sliders something about that actually explains what these different settings mean like the interface is actually useful for somebody that doesn't know exactly I rock ironical czar it's not too different from the way the interface is on Samsung's Galaxy camera but the difference is that instead of a whole bunch of numbers that you need to know like photographic principle for its it's like what the effect will do and it's it's much it's just much easier to navigate and use on nokia SAP the one thing that is missing is aperture control so you can control your shutter speed so you can do these long exposures and they showed in their demos like four second exposures you can control your white balance with it and you can control your ISO settings or sensitivity to light but you can't control your aperture which is the opening of the lens so you can't control your depth of feel for some reason but there is one thing that is added that's like totally unique is you can manually focus the lens which is like kinda we've never seen that before on a smartphone that's really cool opens up a whole new level of options especially when you're doing close-up photography so that that's really cool to see and it works really well and it's really simple to use with the interface yeah it makes me want a 925 yes what yes no thank you the 925 doesn't like it I'll had that app but then it's just like a normal camera after that and like so you can manually focus and your depth of field is so broad on a 925 because these is a small smartphone sensor it will mess up your you're all right on top of your subject like then your manual focus is like one but the camera on the on the 1020 is such a red herring like a nobody is going to nobody's going to buy this as they're absolutely but there are people that like should be interested and turned on by this camera I am not looting I don't know and i'll tell you suck at photography no because here's the thing your camera is not your phone and your phone is not your camera because in a year or in a two year in two years at most you're going to lose your camera and and especially with nokia there's no guarantee that there's going to be a similar replacement on the market so then what then you're back to an eight or 13 megapixel camera whatever why do you have to think that everything is going to suck in the future Chris what AT&T is going to continue having opoly and offered shitty shitty subsidized plans and your camera is gonna get lost and you're not gonna be able to ever take photos look no all I'm saying is keep your camera and your phone separate like it's it's okay to have a good camera your phone no the best camera that you have is the one that's in your pocket and for any most people ninety-five percent of time that's their phone yes and you know what's a great camera the kick the camera on the iPhone 5 or the gs4 it's like not even versity 925 it's like not even it's like I could take your I can take better picture you could let's just say this you could take better pictures with your sony rx100 can't you then you can with your iphone 5 i can take what better pictures with your sony rx100 or your your canon s110 your iphone 5 right of course of course yet you could take better pictures with the Lumia 1020 than you can with a iphone 5 it's like that yeah difference ya know I with it alright very seriously that your arguments is just false it's just wrong it's bad it's horribly terrible no I mean I whether or not like I really think Chris should take care of all those alerts that he was getting with the vibration on his phone and let the rational people talk right now because seriously the 1020 is materially materially better in terms of the camera than anything else other than the aid of AP of you which really barely qualifies as phone ok I understand some people carried out conversations with you ate away p of you I haven't been witness to that I'm just going to take their word for it but now you actually have a smartphone with a truly advanced camera and exactly as dan says the pro camera PS is going to come to other Lumia phones but it's just going to be a trinket it's just gonna be a thing that you can tweak and notice almost no difference on those other cameras because they're not as good the pro camera app is so good and so valuable and all those things you can tweak are going to be so useful because the Lumia 920 has a camera that has it has this crazy optical image stabilization stuff going on with ball bearings and whatnot and then you have that lossless zoom and rich audio recording and stereo mics and all this madness leave I just feel like in terms of multimedia phones I can't even think of one that comes close to it in terms of multimedia phones yeah it's an it's an ode way to describe things but I'll go and I was cool and another thing i want to mention is a had a popular tweet this week where I want to represent the word megaphone to refer to big phones because i hate phablets I'm never going to use it with phablet so I'm gonna call them megaphones here's with me nobody but I want to talk about the biggest problem with the 1020 is obviously its Achilles heel that is windows one and then like like that's the problem that i have with dropping three hundred dollars on it and using it as my main advice because i don't think i could do it with Windows Phone like if this thing was running Android I would seriously be like so my house you know well what do I have to do to get this up and get this phone right now but because it's running Windows Phone I haven't placed a pre-order I'm kind of apprehensive I am you know we've been we've been talking about how like man we don't know like we can't run oh so now I'm gonna I'm gonna take my sim out of my google edition HTC One tonight put it back in the 920 and I'll check back with you guys next week and we use it for if you break all of our email threads for work I'm gonna be cyanic okay yeah I've done this not that long ago and only 22 problems that i had with it um it's totally usable and I'm getting to the point now where I prefer to Android because it doesn't suffer from androids like random slowness like as someone who's used and I'm gonna get myself into huge trouble here with with little commenters but as someone who has I think right now I've used an iphone for longer than any other period in history in my history I've been on the same phone for about eight months now something like that and you know typically I've switched you pretty evenly exactly it's like yeah I don't know who he is anymore but but typically i switch pretty evenly between android and iphone trending more toward android and with an occasional windows phone in between and recently I've tried on a couple occasions to switch back to an Android device and the apps are just make me furious because they don't scroll cleanly they look like like like garbage and I think that's what I'm what I appreciate about Windows Phone in the same way I appreciate iOS is that it's smooth not all the apps are there that you need for sure and a lot of those apps that are there don't suck yeah so that the two things specifically that caused me to get off of Windows Phone 8 last time I tried to use it was the email experience using gmail might be easier for someone who's using just some random I'm AB account I'm change right oh and and for me and I know this is like a first-world problem to the max but I'm the lack of a proper uber app was an issue um so you don't have any problem with the browser and the fact that like it doesn't support webcam or live a proper IRC app with them IRC seven works okay but the promise it yet doesn't background at this project which is like not a proper I or see ya I and you don't have a problem with the browser the fact that it's not webkit-based which means that the vast majority of mobile formatted sites don't work in it well so the browser is great the problem is that like you say like websites aren't designed for it like that they could be and the browser be great and it worked like in desktop mode work it usually works great but what sucks like what was it Spotify or no what was it there were there was some music site recently that I was trying a mixed cloud mixcloud recently released a mobile browser compatible music player which works amazing in mobile safari and in chrome on Android but I in in IE and mobile IE it doesn't work at all and i'm sure it could it's just that but mix club didn't bother optimizing it for IE because there's absolutely no reason to so it's another example of like a you know a critical mass situation for Windows Phone bring a game back to my original point it's just I i I've come to appreciate Windows Phone in a way that I appreciate that I appreciate iOS and do not appreciate Android and and so that's why I'm can strongly considering getting a 920 because for me the aesthetics of the phone are more important than having an unusually excellent camera and the 925 is a really gorgeous phone and they just announced new feature this week for it did they Dan uh yeah we uh Tom wrote this up and a little demo of it it's a it uses the proximity sensor to and you wave your hand like it's the phone is the screen is off and you want to check the time or see if you have notification you just wave your hand over it and it lights up and tells you which is like a smart use of the proximity sensor it unlike samsung's galaxy gimmicks that try to track your eyeballs right screen or would happen right you know all the small small features and actually about the galaxy s4 tried using that again recently and it's part of the amazingly large battery inside it it just runs out of juice way too quickly for me I don't know why because I'm not riding a particularly hard but he just did that so I heard of like um but I think I think to dance point I don't know because when then was saying the biggest kid is here for 10 20 I didn't anticipate him saying Windows Phone anticipated him saying the price which 299 amazing team well let's give nokia credit for the good thing which is that is shipping the phone two weeks after its announcement yeah that's that is a complete Apple move this is something that I've been saying you know take note everybody else when apple doesn't hardware product announcement it says shipping in two weeks and now Mickey is doing that again so what's the lesson gonna be in 6 months when this phone is a complete failure like you know it's gotta know me when it when it drops the ninety nine dollars on contract for those yeah I mean I hate to say that it's not gonna succeed in the market but like we've seen 18t and Nokia try this twice now and I'd all I think I mean they're true pewter camera is the solution that they're waiting for it's not as important as the other institutional factors that haven't helped I think it's going to probably fail for the same reasons not to be so negative but it's just saying that they're taking a very different tack with this than they did with the 900 in the 920 the 900 in the 920 were very aggressively priced they were when they hit release they were ninety nine dollars a contract and they very quickly went down from there uh this is coming out at three hundred dollars per contract it's clearly a premium priced phone and they are putting all of their feet forward on the camera features and trying a different tack to get people interested in it and Nokia said that they are hoping that the PureView is the the gateway drug to get people into windows phone and talking about Windows Phone interested in with us all because obviously price wasn't doing it before or low low prices I still think it's they've got very much of an uphill battle ahead in order to you know capture the main audience but maybe people will buy it on AT&T next there you go I just I just don't see that HTC first sitting the bar alone drinking feeling rejected and sad and the door opens sunlight bathes into the room and it closes and the 10-20 walks in and sits down next to the first and try to impress the first with its low light photography and the first doesn't care because it's too depressed and eventually the 10-20 realizes that it too is depressed and forlorn it double taps itself to check the time and realizes that it's ten-thirty in the morning and it's sitting at the bar okay now guys I have to have to posit the positive argument the one that rejects teets premise that this phone will fail I personally feel like the 1020 is it marks a break from monkeys previous attempts yes it's being launched with AT&T is at least an initial exclusive so kind of keeps that tradition but again go back to 920 launch we ourselves and a lot of other people made a big deal out of the fact that ok you just announced 920 and the 820 I think these Dakota the most advanced smartphone in the world but there's no release date so like what are you doing exactly and so no key is improved in that is given us a two-week release date or be it just in the US the rest of the world is like quarter free and I do you feel like now nokia has a unique selling point with the camera i know we have secured notes on how important that is and and the third aspect is actually the android is pretty much stagnated in terms of appeal i am in full agreement chris for whatever reason i've stuck around with the iphone so much longer than i would have done previously and I think that's down to Android just not really advancing in terms of user experience yes it's advanced in terms specs but can you really pinpoint how they've impacted users experience or improve it you can't like I say like I would rather have a galaxy s3 or galaxy s2 even with just amazing battery life yes tell ya know galaxy s2 as a WVGA is not touching that okay that's a better life and I knew this place camera is good enough though sure yeah Wow I don't why do i do like I do like the boom sound on my 1 i'm not gonna lie what do you guys think about this moto x where we got that we've got the leak it's gonna be always on listening for you to say okay Google now and then you can do a Google now search it's going to have some pulsing notifications on the screen and it'll I think they showed like it look like the Facebook icon so they don't show any notification on the screen so you'll be able to see where your notifications are you get little custom color black plates that you can engrave with your name and possibly other materials it could be so you know I think that it could be really cool the problem that it is going to have is fighting this notion this this really really like paralyzing stigma in the US market that a phone has to be huge to be a flagship device and give us enough that problem but I well apple doesn't fit in inside of many molds and that's one of them like what are you well I guess what I'm saying is like if there's any company that has a chance to sort of be look at this this is flagship and it's not huge like Apple can do it and I think marketed right motorola could probably do it I agree but the problem is does this fit that flagship bill does the does the Moto action like we know like the specs that have leaked out it isn't like absolute top of the line right now that's what I'm should be saying some of the my specs don't match were so anymore let's top of line premium feel them I think I think Moto X is going to be kind of like a reintroduction for motorola I think that's how they're going to do it re introducer brand just like they've got a new logo they've got plenty of money from google to ride this wave out for a long time if the Moto X doesn't you know take off in salt n civilians babe you know what dan dan Motorola is just gonna be in the spring cleaning list like eight item just as I thought but but honestly I mean they are saying it's going to be made in the US that in like one factory and have it quickly shipped to customers I making things in the US is expensive and it's definitely not as uh the the output of how many they can produce is very likely going to be less than if they made in China so I mean and I like the look of it from from the from the back plate that we've seen it looks like the ID is not offensive unlike the les fue droids that have come out so that's a good sign and if that points to the design of the the motorola devices to come that aren't droids then that you know i'm pretty bullish on that and i think that they're going to have ultimately they're going to have to come out with a range of sizes and i know that we've been talking forever about wanting a 42 4.3 inch two flagship device I don't know if the Moto X is it I also don't know if they're going to be able to position this device is a flagship device and really campus i spects microsoft has seemingly succeeded at doing that some degree since windows phone seven but then again they haven't penetrated market much so lots of questions yes you do look that it looks at it looks good in Eric Schmidt's hands good night do you think that he custom selected that bad color do you think that he customized it he's like I want white I do it looks like it's got some kind of grill pattern on it there's there's been a rumor going around that you're going to be in addition to like custom color options that you'll be able to choose different materials and one of them being wood and if I that is actually true I would buy one with a wooden back so quickly I am in a window I with are we talking cedar we talk in balsa come on boss but pork was was a bamboo photo posted on the back of it a bamboo yeah that's a good point flat bamboo is a great wood there was a quarter silent each other or something with a hardees company dizzy okay I'm going to repeat myself third time to or disruptions but yeah there was UK designer who got a deal with a Chinese company to produce a bamboo phone and i still recall sharp had at least a concept bamboo phone which which kind of had a pebble like shape and they had a fantastic promo video for it there's like nature and green trees and waterfalls and pebbles and lighten up I know we've seen a couple concepts out of out of Japan that use wood but you know I've never seen a wooden phone in person so also I just have a couple of points right here the first is if you buy yourself an xbox one and a moto x by Christmas this year you and the NSA are going to have a really close relationship because basically when you're not mix your phone you got to be the X your console and both of those are going to be like you haven't even say to me do you want to give yourself away so give me your communist tendencies about the always on always listening thing yes the NSA stuff yes it's that's creepy yes that's like there's a whole lot of creep factor there but like don't we want to live in a future where we could just like talk to our computers when we get is it and they respond to us is in the dream like the the next generation thing where you just say computer blah blah blah blah blah and it does whatever you want and it's always waiting that's really no no cuz it particular with phones you I use the phone primarily when I'm out those among other people and I don't want to talk to it no I'm not saying that it should be the only interaction paradigm but I'm saying like at some point we need to like move towards the future where we can talk to our computers and good but isn't that isn't that also kind of facile and evading the issue of coming up with better touch interactions like okay like you admitted we suck at touch interact like you know you're demanding that we have better counterweighted knobs and dials when like what we really need are buttons I mean yeah I mean honestly I feel like the removal of all buttons is kind of a step back all these touch screens ergonomically I mean they saw so dieter I think it could go two ways because I think back to like handwriting recognition on Newton even graffiti it feels like that kind of reached a peak and then died out in in the course of what 10 to 15 years yeah as a valid means event of a human interacting with a computer so the question is does voice recognition take that F or are we in the early stages of an actual revolution higher in 20 years we're all talking to our computers naturally I think like native said that people try to let us talk to our computers naturally I think what you were saying earlier that why can't we just have both there's definite use cases where using your voice is easier if you're cooking and you need some to look up something you can't touch your device or if you're driving and you need to look up directions with your voice that's a lot easier to do ok but but it doesn't make the only method the distinction that should be drawn then is I guess like myself I wouldn't trust it if it has to be and always connected to the internet so it is kind of like Google now or you know again going back to the xbox one does it have to be connected internet how many times days I have to connect to the internet how many times they have to communicate with Microsoft services center etc and the way that I would analogize it is to say when you're using a touchscreen you're comfortable that you're not giving away information about so whereas when you're using a voice service that's I think I think that's a red herring blood because if you're using a moment you're giving away so much data already you're doing it but when are you leasing it you're giving away I'm talking about the process of touching the screen but you provide that automatically checking in by itself I don't know I think what would Vlad think Vlad saying like the people around you can hear you talking right glad no no what what I mean is okay the analogy is this when okay there's the risk that somebody could tap in and listen to your instructions to your phone okay which is kind of like touching your touch screen and then your phone recognize your fingerprints and then potentially sending them up somebody else okay so you know how's that risk with the touch screen first of all that risk is already there like there are rootkits for phones that will all turn the microphone on and listen to what you're doing so that that's number one number two like the thing that is changing here is that the microphone is on locally listening for you to say okay Google now and then it will take your voice search the only thing that's different is you don't have to push a button but you'd have to push a power button push your unlock code push long press the button press the microphone and then do it which made me as which make me ask why can't any Android phone do this now like it seems to me like that's just a natural extension of Google now like maybe that is what we're seeing a future version of Android 4.3 with Google now that's always listening no no I I know the answer that the answer is that and Motorola has been very careful to say this ever since woodside first announced X at all etta at d11 there are a number of low power sensors that are specifically designed for the X and I get what he's saying because if you leave if you just leave the microphone on twenty-four/seven on a you know a run-of-the-mill android phone your battery life is gonna plummet right okay I've got a special low power microphone that's waiting and then it hears you and then it activates the real microphone to take your search maybe that could be now makes sense and like Google now sneaking in everywhere i gotta say i don't want google now everywhere because the google now card design snuck onto the google play Web Store for Android so bad it is the worst it's so bad what was I thinking what it's like I opened it up in my browser this morning and I'm like why do I need these giant friendly buttons on my desktop web browser it's like I guess it's good if you're visiting from a tablet or toe then it should be delivered to like that on a tablet but you know yeah then you like to be using a Windows 8 and we all know that every Windows 8 device concerts a screen are things like web pages are awesome because you can have text links they can be information dense and you can do like stuff and that gives you more power to like be widget II and nerdy and look at lots of data on a single screen and they just took all that and went got rid of it and replace it with these big giant icon card things that like it takes toys it takes as long to do anything on the desktop in the store as it did as it does on an android phone it's also super buggy like and kept it kept timing out on me right and on top of all of that android sucks so hard at updating new phone or getting like when you set up a new phone giving you all your apps back like like they just randomly don't show up for me and I've got to go through and manually install go through all my installed apps and manually install them from the web page like it's gonna be impossible now it's bad but let me tell you something the iOS ipod make your process is no walk in the park like it's kind of hilarious when you first restore a phone for my cloud because you first of all you like eight modal dialogues that interrupt each other saying like you know your passwords missing your password is incorrect blah blah blah for all these different services and then like it'll try for a second to download your 800 apps and they'll be like up we give up try connecting it to your computer and then you just let it chill there for a day or two and eventually all your absolute show up yeah so that's natural interaction isn't it it's like just had a cheer for dad to it answer back so actually yeah Usher bring his back quickly to the point about smaller flagships because we've got a very teasing tweet from one of the hcp are people who was very noisy and he asked people if we did the HTC One a smaller size what price would you guys want to that um and you gotta set up with all this AC one mini rumor leakage speculation stuff and pretty much expect that phone to happen and I i have is one of anticipating because i have been asking for that kind of thing that crystal same for a long time we all have so if we get this HTC one mini to pan out and the Moto X is in the same sort of form factor and has a good user experience there might be a little resurgence in smaller form factors I'd be in there so okay so my question is like what are they going to do to the Moto X and what are they gonna do to the HTC mini to ruin them traditionally in either a slow processor or a bad camera or a combination of the two I'm not too worried about slow processor anymore yes because the mid-range processors whatever that Snapdragon is is pretty good right like I you mean Snapdragon 400 yeah it should be happy with it yeah relatively um as long as the cameras are good and the build quality is good like we're there now you just want a google play edition one mini oh yeah yeah yeah well that's what like that might be that rather than mess around with that because you know I'm doing custom roms on my one and I'm starting to get annoyed with it like maybe I just get the Moto X because it'll be closer to stock and also just to mention a completely countervailing point I think it was the first couple of days there was I heard the first room of a c1 max yeah supposed to be we supposed to be a 6-inch beginneth yeah from the power button on the top of the HTC one max like nigga me they're gonna need to sell it with one of those little toes coy toy claws you know that you reach out no they're gonna they're gonna sell it with with that that mini bluetooth phone that they sold the other thing with on China oh yeah I Sony just announced one of those two right glad you played with it the Xperia Z ultra fine yeah and then if i put mazza in but it has a bluetooth handset to go to oh yes and its massive if you know it was honestly it's like it's like if you think back to like 2001-2002 or shrinking every phone it's about that size so you're telling me that you need a mini bluetooth handset to pair to the big bluetooth handset to bed to the Z ultra it's just uh what's this breaks and said she wanted to bring up oh yeah so apparently speaking of Motorola phones verizon just sent us out an invite to an event actually next tuesday july twenty third um so looks like we'll be seeing some something from verizon got on the blue motorola got to be the trolley those new droids that have been leaked left and right and up and down um so cool look forward to that yeah yeah this is totally the droids yeah for sure undercutting actually brings back to experience that ultra because that that is again that is my definition of the megaphone thing that i'm trying to push I hate the saboteur but no megaphone is worse no trust me listen I mean I don't know why we don't call of ultra phones but Microsoft took the term surface which used to refer to that massive $10,000 table and turned it into making like my reference for service right now is a tablet so all it takes is a marketing push maybe your Twitter campaign and then we can make it happen we can make it's a mega mega phone is to like there's too much positivity in that term it needs to be something else what was the thing I think the reason what is there is a market for these phones and I think there's a bit of a fragmentation between the East and the West happening right now where companies are recognizing that Western consumers like ourselves prefer smaller phones 4.4 inch form factor but then they also continue to recognize that there's a massive market in Asia in China and Japan etc where people want to have just one device which is the compromises in tablet form which is that 67 inch one fact that's what the galaxy note is proven and that's what the HD flat didn't prove because it was wasn't that much of a success but if you have a good device in that foam fact that there is a big market for unfortunate qualities you want to call it mega phone instead of what I prefer which is really I mean which by the way what I want to call it still shorter than the average smartphone brand name from 2011 so think that's true about you need some you need some acronyms in there I think my term is more culturally tolerant thorough testing the newest Peter we just quickly wrap up this well max it's supposed to be six inches I supposed to have the Snapdragon 800 two point three gigahertz quad-core was most powerful mobile processor yadda yadda yadda I mean it is the opposite of what we might anticipate from the one mini which might go for you know tame aspects in the original one this one max is probably going to try max out every spec possible and I think we can kind of read into it the dobie stylus support because that's what so many did with the experience at Ultra this is actually one of the cool things with it you can use a graphite pencil and experience that ultra screen which I and don't think you could have done with any other phone and that's expected to go which I think it's a temper time is that ultra just you know long lead time but then I think the same period is when we can express pay to our maxed and we're gets dissipate obviously Samsung's Galaxy Note 3 which probably be another III introduction in the beginner to chamber so if you're after a massive massive megaphone or oh really one of those mothers day dinner is probably going to invest on to the play well on the blackberry yeah I got a 5-inch yeah five there's be smaller to some rumor of we seen we've seen pictures and video this thing 720p display a 5 inches ah come on call me thrilled I mean you know so it's find a kind of amusing opposition on sprint because then he'll feel to be like man twice just sure but what I find amusing about it is that so far mark a black race marketing campaign has focused a lot of like one-handed use using blackberry 10 do everything with your thumb and i'm pretty sure that goes all out the window and you have a 5-inch display problem you can see to do it with your thumb you just have to holding you one hand and just I'm a girl as beautiful however actually have to try that oh we also saw pictures of the optimus g2 I think we have in video yeah and it's weird because it's got buttons on the back of it yeah like it's happened last week I think this happened during our show show right yeah so we didn't get a chance to complain or talk about it but well let's just get that chance go this time as well yeah man I don't even know I mean well did anyone has anyone used a Google Maps got revamp huge on Android and finally seen this is a redesign that brings the card like interface like Jeter song about essentially it puts google maps for iOS on android which google has been promising to do for a while and now already goodbye to my google maps kawaii mrs. Olsen Google Apps is really good for blood there's some really big concessions with the Android version a lot of things have been stripped out initially when it first was released okay so they stripped out everything that sucked they struggle everything that sucked and yes my maps dude there's two things that they stripped out that didn't suck it was the local maps offline maps and it was I guess if you were into latitude like having to go and like I know a lot of people weren't a fan of it but you know it was kind of convenient for some people and pretty neat and now that's all getting pushed into Google Plus which is a huge bummer but like the my map stuff that local deal stuff like all that stuff is just garbage like they get they got rid of so much extra time I don't know my mouse it my maps was a thing where you could like save specific routes and and maps right to your account and then access the month ago yeah I mean you I don't know what you're but I don't know a lot of people are missing it I'm pretty you see you able to precache maps online you Susan doesn't say when you can't you it's not it's not very you like they originally hit it as a cookie you'd have to type in ok maps or something which is ridiculous then they added as a which you can only find if you tap on the search field and then scroll down which is also ridiculous and it's not like it's not clear to me if you can save multiple areas or not like I saved one area if I save another area does overwrite the previous area like it was stupid but like as long as they add it in the next few months like all is forgiven because there were load literally one two three different menus and like maybe even more that you could pull up on the old maps and it was completely insane yeah the old maps worked very well as far as mapping and directions but the interface of it was just like so reminiscent of like where Android was years ago and it was not where Android is now and it's in it and the new one is brought it right up to speed as far as interface and design and also just to actually get back to my earlier defense of Google mixing services can you guys actually remember Google i/o and just how much stuff Google got through in terms of here's our social networking products here's our desktop products is our mobile products I mean they just have a three-hour key to it yeah I mean it was just epic it was like if there's anything that you guys do with technology we want to be in touch with it we're gonna have our fingers in that pie oh whatever valves a new version of Android yeah yeah I mean will be so unreasonable for us to want one of those uh but when you think of that Bob when you think about that when you record that event it gotta become sensible that Google would start cutting things out I mean obviously we're not going to agree with every one of its cuts but if google keeps adding and adding and adding all of these services which I don't agree I think most of them are like not going to be useful things Phylly but if Google's going to keep expanding like that you kind of have to anticipate that some of these old things are going to fall by the wayside so I guess maybe I'm kind of arguing against myself now if you miss a ball so I guess makes sense yeah what I'm saying is that yeah you can anticipate that things that Google doesn't judge to be too successful which is going to go by the wayside but i also think anybody who's as ambitious as google is maybe Microsoft will try and emulate that kind of thing is going to experience the same thing it's just going to be a case of use the most popular service around if you want to be sure that it's not going to just disappear overnight i don't know i think google reader was the most popular RSS reader around yeah I was gonna say that's yeah but who actually uses our accessories my god what I'm done with you seriously 2013 guys I'm not bc i forgot it was gonna dress like i was an article on this website called the verge about how Twitter can't be the new RSS and about the value that RSS has for regular people somebody really smart wrote it you should check it out i think it's called why RSS still matters from back in March you should take a look at it watch man i mean we're talking about today this is ridiculous ok man are you so much massive expensive thing and you want to consume it via this protocol and just shove it into compendium I I make I not I cannot have this argument with I can't tell me he's rolling is that I don't know I know flat doesn't use Twitter as I am I literally guards as Billy's never on Twitter I'm gonna do Diane dude I over right now to you Vlad from marched from back in March I liked over and over again I just can't I spent an extraordinary mountain amounts of time on Twitter I just don't tweet so much I try to be cognizant of the fact that there are people like Chris in my followers timeline and Chris freaking life to his life calling me on hey guys have you guys seen real carrot facts yeah oh yeah yeah carrot facts was I have a theory that that it's vlad he says it's not is like it must be i mean i'm allowed to do that it would be about colors of carrots what's the verdict on carrots guilty of being good for you come on this is so good start the weekend off right by eating a dry carrot and solitude it's the best of Ludwick i will say does follow real k thanks why do we tweeted during the the show by the way oh really yeah yeah okay doesn't a piece of evidence that goes just my five I will find out I just want to tweet something like I don't know neighborhood of pavements like Peter so you can do himself to be UK person okay yeah here's my question each other when it's spelled the same mission do we need RSS in order to enjoy those beautiful beautiful piece of wisdom we did it no but does that mean like like there are lots of things you don't need RSS for that's that I thought I like the incident you just don't need it I gonna see nervous is I listen stop it stop and listen to the truth RSS is a tool for democracy okay it is a tool for people that aren't coders to get access to data out of websites without having to learn how to mess with an API and in fact some of these sites aren't even offering api's anymore and you have facebook and google to thank for it because they started the trend and then twitter followed along and they got rid of their RSS and so now like you know grabbing information out of sight and doing something interesting with it is getting harder and it's because RSS is getting deprecated and I'm not saying I'm dedicated to this particular form of XML there's ours to theirs Adam there's like whatever whatever you want pubsubhubbub but it's a way for like you to get something from a site without having to visit the site okay but that's a bit as a point that we're losing as the point I think that's bad thing oh you should be visiting sites okay because again all right maybe this is idealist but good web design should be forced on to be with the faster that's one point and an era says is like a way to avoid web design and just get to the content and the second thing is if you don't visit the site you don't look at the advertising and so many websites rely on advertising money you know it's suppose it's just about blog posts and news stories it's about anything that you can like put out on the internet any kind of content ok can you give you an example go to if this then that calm and look at all the recipes that they've got set up there it's kind of amazing and like a lot of that is powered by open web standards and RSS like okay I'm gonna give that turn on that angry we got anything else so I brought it up and then we got cut off but does anybody want to say anything about sprint nextel is no sprint corporation and Softbank is owned about them I mean I would like to say something about it okay I didn't know until that press release came out that sprint was still officially called sprint nextel didn't realize that that's all well I I think if there's been one consistent theme to this today's forecast is been that we passionate sprint I feel kind of bad about that trial kind of bad they do track now I feel kind of bad until I use a sprint phone and then I don't feel so good anymore well yeah I mean it just takes five minutes trying to get something done on sprint evdo realized that there's nothing to feel bad about remember back in the day when like sprint was out there with EBD oh yes cutting edge and they had you sighs the best phones I used to tether with my pre and get like almost 2 megabits I'm kakatiya for the pre i'm talking like 6700 though HTC's other stuff like it was so good yes I did love my my mobile which was a PPC 6800 Yeah right I was pretty dope phone they just man that that wimax thing see you at that phone i actually paid 299 that on contract I want to say someone is probably gonna correct me on this but I want to say that sprint also sold the first bluetooth enabled phone in the US I might be completely updated don't know they did there was an LG I definite was an Elgort is an bluetooth gsm phone before right well yeah i think they were the first carrier but it was an LG phone that slid open uh and it was it was the first bluetooth phone carried by us oh speaking of sliding they also sold the matrix phone the samsung matrix phone which I own it was garbage seriously I didn't know they even made a gsm version of FF impressed that pivoting camera that i had it was a clamshell and had a pivoting camera which you could it could be from face in a back face wait wait wait wait no no it is this spring the sprint matrix was slider and yet aah black and white ears oh that was that extra futuristic woman okay yeah I can still see neo like it pops out he's like ah like that mo it got phone so awesome yeah it was funny like that was one of the the first great like uh like movie cross branding moments for the mobile industry because like I don't think they expected that Nokia phone in the first one that generates such a huge buzz and then Samsung obviously saw that and then jumped on it yeah well the difference is that the new kid banana phone is actually a freaking iconic design which was awesome ring ring yeah they made um I think that most versions of that phone didn't have the the spring-loaded slider right like most of them are just like you you manually push them out but the one in the movie is the spring load yeah i mean i've talked in okay designers and they say they might have some of those two hanging around over there in finland's i would love to run those phones heck yeah yeah what were those are some gentlemen oh I'm cut we wait no well now we're on nostalgia yeah okay this is the happy part of the show dieter yeah this is our nostalgia moment in fact I'm trademarking that every show and in a nostalgia moment ramen uh you know I've got a I've got a future nostalgia moment I wish I could talk about but I'm not gonna but continued a future nostalgia moment would just be the present wouldn't it no it's a it's a nostalgia for a different kind of moment oh let's uh that's foreboding yeah um no I was gonna say and what was the remember nokia had a brand i can't believe i can't remember the name oh they had a brand for like their high-end non-virtue phones what was it oh god I hate you uh like the chrome slider yeah I don't remember yeah well anyway I want some of those if anyone if any nokia employees are listening to me and don't hate me um get in touch i would love to buy one of those devices from you as soon as you know if you want to do if you were to do a class on set theory and how intersecting two sets that don't have the same things gives you an empty dokey employees who don't hate chrissy it would be a small set I admit worst case scenario i'll just tweet at s Elop yeah you hook you up yeah yeah yeah okay i'm done with my nostalgia mom okay and that is real thank you last week's last week showed did we talk about elope shoes what no I work they were no words he was wearing yellow chucks at nokia's of it they had happened yet oh this was a theme for all the nokia employees there the lot of the staff had like all black outfits with yellow belts and yellow chucks and then the the imaging experts on stage with Elop had yellow chucks it was a really amazing event and everything what it was what great except for your inability to recognize there's between reality and virtual really it wasn't it was kind of like I don't want to say the word I want to say on it on our show but it was like a mind freak will say that uh because like it had this screen this projection screen more like three times on this show so so it totally gave me a mindfuck and it had this in projection screen where they were projecting the stuff and then all of a sudden that the room goes dim and Elop comes out and he's like behind this screen but it looks like a 3d thing going on because his screen in front of you and projections are still happening on the screen while he's behind the screen and then all of a sudden that lifts up and he was like oh it's easy there in person and then at the end of the show of the show at the end of the event the screen behind Stephen Elop which was displaying all their demos and stuff actually splits in half like this and you just like look down this long corridor where they had all of their demo stations and things like that set up it was pretty is pretty rad yeah I think it's the only moment in verge liveblog history where a writer was unable to determine whether a person was real or not yes that was me I think I think that that description applies to the entire Qualcomm keynote at sea this is true this is true I will grant you that yeah um goodbye everybody thank you for watching or listening to the Virgin Mobile show if you want to follow us on twitter you can and should earlier earlier we had an Eli who is reckless I am back lon dan is DC seifert with an e I Chris's said power but not with the ed Vlad is flat Sabbath we are all at verge and next week maybe probably we'll see bye
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