Gadgetory

hey welcome to the verge mobile show this is episode 74 the week of November 25th it's a turkey week here in the US so it is Thanksgiving and lots to be thankful for i'm dan seifert i'm evan rodgers what were was flat on that let it just dropped out at the moment of truth Oh pro well i am i'm chris sigler and apparently Vlad has decided not to join us there was something about Dan's mention of Thanksgiving that made him very very angry he just peed yup he dropped in a huff I don't stare to be fair Commonwealth countries do Thanksgiving on different days or I don't know if it's Commonwealth countries are just Canada I know the canada had their thanksgiving in october yeah but that's because winter starts in canada like so much earlier that well they're just in perpetual winter as far as i know i think there's any other the great frozen north that's right Oh podcasts so so this has been a smooth start I guess we should probably talk about we should at least acknowledge the fact that evan rodgers our producer is joining us for I believe his third appearance is that right yes yes that is the case that's a that's very very exciting and the reason oh and we also have an infant joining us yeah um podcasting star that I believe and we're not gonna spoil the surprise actually we are gonna spoil the surprise I believe being told is being fed into my ear as we speak no it's not the dieter may be joining us later I I still know why deters not here by the way this later yes yes so I am sitting in for dieter for the time being and theoretically he will in fact join us good and Vlad uh he is a person that exists but not on the internet for the moment he is a person to exist this is true so yeah that's what's up that's podcasting what do we told you guys want to talk about mobile stuff I guess I'm just looking at our I'm admittedly looking at our topic list for the very first time and the top of the list is apparently three high-level blackberry executives have been given the the old boot and shown the door as John Chen is the new CEO is starting to clean house and and right the ship it seems well you know as they say rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic is always the way to go so that's my first question I guess you know knowing not very much about blackberry um like blackberries corporate structure I don't know how much these three individuals influenced um kind of the sinking the titanic if you oh well i mean again we've we've said this in in past week by the first level executive yeah they are but i don't think I mean anything that happened in the the period of time between the departure of jim balsillie and mike lazaridis and and black braids day I think it's very very difficult to attribute a lot of blame to anyone in the c-suite up to and including torsten Heinz because they just didn't hey I'm een their fate was kind of sealed by the time those guys were shown the door and granted there are probably things that they could have done to soften the blow maybe but yeah and you have to you have to second guess Heinz decision to push the the launch of blackberry 10 out what by three or four months if not more I can't remember how long he delayed it but he delayed it for a while and that may have heard them a bit but at the end of the day I mean it's six of one half dozen the other I mean they're their fate was sealed I think so that's my take yeah did we talk about the the the Porsche Design last week I guess we did didn't we yeah because Vlad had one ah for reason I should I should probably say hello oh yeah he's here nice up here that's not good exactly but since I am completely uninformed about what those three people have blackberry did or what they value was aware they going well I mean I just came right they're the ones that at least one of them has was a pretty public face Frank boulben was the chief marketing officer he was you know always out there talking about as much as as Hines what's at least talking about blackberry and its plans and things like that that's what a very important role in uh hiring Alicia Keys I guess um so uh you know it's a it's a high-level executive position I honestly if somebody is going to be brought in as a fixer-upper type of person as what this interim CEO John Chen is supposed to apparently be then it only makes sense for him to you know get rid of the old guard and figure out something new so I'm not terribly surprised by this move but like Chris said uh it's like rearranging the deckchairs lives Titanic so I remember talking to Frank boulben when he was first hired um which wasn't that long ago he was hired by Heinz uh if memory serves me correctly and I can't remember where he came from um but yeah he was he was a pretty I remember I think I talked to him literally within a couple weeks of him being tired and I specifically remember asking a bunch of questions and then being like look I don't know I just got here so hopefully he was at least able to bring himself up to speed on the company before you shown the door here's my question why wasn't Alicia Keys fired in a very public way well why hasn't any blackberry executive said you know what we put a lot of faith and trust in deletion turn this company around she wasn't able to pull it off we're gonna have to let her go my question is why wasn't she immediately promoted to like be level executive yeah she should be the new chief executive that would be incredible I mean actually they're specially still tweeting former iPhone yellow with all of these approaches is that nobody seems to be willing to say the word fired anymore like we all know people getting fired left right and center but everybody is stepping aside or that thing down so this is how it goes i'm gonna family this is how it goes with all of these companies and you know i just finished reading i was saying this before we started by just finished reading hatching Twitter which is Nick bilton's of the New York Times he wrote a book about how Twitter was started and all of the executive drama that happened for like three or four years there and like on the public side of things everything is done to save the face of the executive and save the face of the company by having them say so-and-so is stepping aside and so and so is stepping down but behind the scenes it's like screaming in boardrooms and definite firings and things like that but you know they always seem to give the unless in like very rare circumstances where like somebody you know legitimately gets fired for being violent I don't know but it's always it's always made to seem like they step down or stepped aside or pursuing other interests or will be spending more time with their family or some other innocuous thing that that it lets them save their their face for when they get higher done then why and I think a lot of that if yes it is i think a lot i think a lot of that is tied to uh you know the departure package um the louis vuitton golden parachute exactly a good example is um Sinofsky when he left microsoft i think this actually came out in some sec filing that microsoft had to make where they disclosed that he was under you know an NDA for some period of time where he any couldn't disparage microsoft publicly and in return he got some ridiculous amount of money and you know me personally if you give me you know 10 million dollars to to not say anything negative about an employer that I feel treated me poorly I think that's an offer that I would probably take um you know I actually actually have a really awesome crow idea right here which is that each one of these executives is part of the golden parachute should get one of these Porsche Design vibrates nice to be like we're going to recompense you with loads and loads of money in the form of porsche design blackberry's yeah instead of giving 10 million dollars they get 500 porsche design BlackBerry's own that what we also like to see how long we can love without acknowledging teeth of holiness weight is is dieter in the Hangout dieter is present but but he he's occupied right now he's ocupado um that doesn't mean he's not present in his heart's not with us um yes this isn't ocupado like Spanish for the bathroom is in use let's just-okay that's just och it's just occupied here you're saying the dieter is is going to the bathroom right now dieter is going to the bathroom right now the bathroom is in use yes this is the this is the micro studio / bathroom oh no a replacement to broadcast video what is he doing Lissa if you're if you're watching the video of this I apologize and if you're listening to the audio of this I also apologize I now have two lads hey I'll have two months and the real ones I've got two lads and the real one there is probably a remnant one of me left over because it's google hangout he'll hate me uh but I'm not giving up I'm just gonna keep coming back and multiplying until it lets me stay yes awesome guys ah ok so I've had enough talking about blackberry so apparently the FCC has allowed it's it's already allowed gadgets in the first ten thousand feet of a flight and now it's considering allowing phone calls uh which is apparently well not apparently this is actually my worst nightmare ever um but it's up to the airlines right if they want to allow passengers to make phone calls while they're on a plane so here it is so outraged about that so here's my thought on this the FCC um the FCC yeah the FCC they gave us they gave us one you can use your devices on planes now but you're gonna suffer through the phone calls of every other passenger its equivalent exchange glad if you've ever been trapped on a train with somebody who's like gabbing on the phone the entire time and you can't get away from it uh that's what's wrong with it just just magnify that little clean all right fair enough there's a problem but there is an entirely a social problem that is not technological problem whatsoever that it basically tells you you need to sort out your culture and your fellow Matt right so the next time you stuck with somebody on the train and there gabbing on and on what you want to apply is a very subtle very proportionate bit of violence so that they know not to do that and from there you evolve your society of of your culture and things improved don't have to load you back just because you're kind of evil in weird and inconsiderate well I I mean I don't think that's holding technology back the technology is there to do it now it's just not allowed by regulations and the FCC is considering allowing it and letting Airlines decide whether they will allow it on their planes or not so I mean that's what a generation done the regulation is holding the technical thing back which is you know say don't do my I don't know it's holding people back from doing the technical thing I guess but the sea I feel I feel like if we were just a bit more considerate this is a bonus and positive thing for people like if you're on a plane and there actually is some sort of real emergency i mean you know listen let's not get into like the terrorist situations or whatever but we look at documentaries people try to leave messages for their loved ones and whatnot and and I me in those circumstances it is kind of a useful thing and in in more innocuous ones as well I just think if we annoy one another that's a social problem and we shouldn't be regulating that out the way you should be or consider is society well the silver lining here is that while it may be you know permissible from a regulatory standpoint the airline's do have the option to just tell you to please please some don't use your phone this like a poor like a movie theater you can still use your phone in a movie theater you just really should no no they'll kick you out of the movie theater they might can't like open the door well they could I regret about that I speak would be uh really i mean that's like a pretty severe penalty for using your phone so the point that's been made to me in the past and this is a very fair point is that until relatively recently you can make calls on planes using air so i think is eric called air cell which was later purchased by verizon and that spectrum that was used for that service i believe is what eventually became go go so go-go's data service is terrestrial based they just use their own set of cell towers that are pointed upward instead of laterally and that's how you get Wi-Fi in your plane right now but this service all effectively already existed and and no one ever used those phones which is why the spectrum was sold off and part of that was that it was just a very very expensive service i'm sure that lots of people would have liked to call their family and friends and say hey I'm calling you from 30,000 feet but it was like ten dollars a minute or something so if they you know I could see a situation where their lines do allow it but say you know we're going to put just a ridiculous price on it and so you know if you make need to make an emergency call some business related thing that needs to happen right now you can do it it's just going to cost you an arm and a leg and that's going to keep the riffraff off their phones I mean like thinking back over my lifetime all the plane rides I've been on beclin aerosol existed i never saw a single person used any of those phones so they can just priced it as as poorly as they priced aircel that'll keep people off their phones but then there's another point which is like if I'm in one of those situations my first port of call might actually be Skyped using an internet connection boom right so if you have Wi-Fi on the flight already you can you can but they block the block voice over yeah airline Wi-Fi has probably blocked almost universe they block all streaming pretty much and I mean the the bandwidth is so terrible that ok game so they block streaming I don't know if I don't know about that I see people constantly sucking down massive Netflix quantities of data who who is watching netflix on a plane like what what magical aircraft had everyone is what everyone is trying to use netflix on the plane ok not successfully i guarantee you they're not doing it successfully a lot of people who buy movies ahead of time on their iPad or iPhone or whatever and then watch it on the plane but they're not streaming netflix wait I'm sorry I'm sorry how do they how do you how do they do that do they use itunes yeah to purchase drm free music and and mp4 files no wait what are you talking I don't know what evidence going I don't know wait every I didn't know however knows this much detail about the type of file being played back when somebody else's tablet yeah what's going on here at actually actually this is an incredible segue to a thing that is not on our topic list but that I am extremely passionate about that I would love to talk about Aaron and pretty do it if we I just have to clarify for my fellow European podcast participants because we're all participants of this my understanding of this is basically that America is land of the free but air of the regulated because all of her so far is we don't do this we don't allow that we regulate the other I mean guys I mean it fit with your hope in all honesty the airline industry is probably one of if not the most regulated industries in the US it's it's like when you compare that to like the firearms industry it's like complete different world oh oh so complete irrelevant aside but worth mentioning I don't think you guys have the federal agency for food safety doesn't have the right to shut down a particular production food I think that's done at the state level which kind of freak I don't know enough about our own government to say yes or no that's true or false but I would be surprised yeah that's the thing let us yes let's catch this using avocados as an example yeah there's a there's a there's an avocado plant in in California that's producing rancid avocados yeah you're saying that the FDA can't be like yo stop doing or no it wouldn't be that to be the USDA yo USDA can definitely do that they can definitely shut down okay that's producing rancid the USDA has shut down like entire tomato pipelines for salmonella okay I like the idea of like an actual pipeline with tomatoes right and they just like they screwed on a valve and the tomato supply just cuts off it's all routed through like the USDA headquarters are just like well made us not today yep well I mean to to chris's example Bob Mikado's that would actually be a pretty major impact on the California economy the tikati if you have for some time around a Super Bowl it would be has guacamole consumption around the Super Bowl is a major deal for the US economy okay I get I guess it might be spreading some misinformation but I don't know this it was part of my research when the US when the US was shut down went the state things were running in like skeletal mode there was a salmonella outbreak again in California with some chicken chicken salmon that well when that when the government was shut down that was a major problem was because things like the FDA didn't have the resources available to do their job like they couldn't enforce their jobs and do their the necessary food inspections and all that right right because the government while I was looking into that um I make somebody pointed out that they didn't have quite as much regulatory reach and power is it really should do even when there tional but again that was like not today so obviously it's not part of my memory and Evan I would just like to point out I mean you even to post to this podcast you know it's just tradition to cut off a perfect segue but not of take care of that no of course I'm taking care of it please pick up the same way okay so I I wanted to speak a little bit about a recent an antec article by brian klug about removable storage and removable batteries on android phones um the one of them is very important to me the other one I could not care less about removable batteries I mean we've we've talked about this before it's really great you can you know you're you get an extra at galaxy s4 battery and just slap it in there when you're out of when you're out of juice but removable storage this is something I'm very very passionate about in fact it was one of the main motivating decisions of my motivating reasons for me to get a xperia z1 by the way America oh god it's so great you just don't does he want is the best cell phone I have ever owned in my life okay for example I'm gonna come back to I'm gonna come back to removable storage in just one woman but anecdotally yesterday I had this phone in the sauna for 20 minutes 25 minutes totally fine asterisks I'm not responsible if you take your phone in the Sun and it doesn't work then I took it in the shower perfectly great listen to podcasts while i was in while I was in there oh so good there's no there's no reason why that is a lie i have to dispute that because if you're in the shower the splashing of the water actually gets in the way of listening to the podcast well you don't you don't like bathe with the z1 like as a bar of soap like you set it off to the side just do this is the full conversation is making me really uncomfortable okay like just don't take your phone into the Turkish bathhouse and you'll be fine okay anyway so part of what brian is saying is that there are a lot of trade-offs that you that you give up for removable storage removable batteries um and one of his one of its points and that's very true I mean it's it's really really true he makes a point about the unibody kind of product design and I mean you can fit a 3000 milliamp battery in you know a space that would only allow you to get a 22 hundred million battery from a few generations ago with the removable back that's very true um and really I don't miss removable batteries at all because I'm not really Road Warrior II that hard but on Android there's there's kind of this thing that I wanted to talk about and that is that that Android is not set up to integrate very well with external storage and this is something that I find it just be like malarkey um first and foremost watch your language Evan I know I know it is a family show Evan I'm really throwing around those uh taking this to a dork what's a 7-letter word is it I'm gonna have to get up the courage for like five minutes call out brian klug just kind of dodging around the issue touching around the issue and now let's get to the meat Evan what is your issue so so there's two things going on here and that is a technological issue like a technological and software issue and then there's the kind of corporate strategy issue that i have with a google and its control over android and its displeasure with external storage um and like basically what it comes down to is like Google doesn't want you to have external storage and Google doesn't really want you to have a very high capacity phone I don't want you to have external storage that's an original problem and I take anything and think about all the horrible things you could be doing with external storage I mean I think the world is just better if you don't have external storage yeah well I mean it's such a it's such a pain in the you-know-what to have to thank about character caucus yeah do they have to think about where your your your media is going like it should just be one contiguous block and the only effective way to do that is to have it all be I mean this has been the windows phone argument to write like babies that is not true that is absolutely not true if you remember the original windows phones that came the windows phone 7 s yeah that was it that was a nightmare that was that was a nightmare and and Samsung got into a world of hurt because of it right well like what do you mean okay why was it a nightmare it seems like not it seems like the actual opposite of a nightmare in that that was part add Revis dream it was a dream know what you can do is you can absolutely um format and and contain your storage even with on two different volumes you can format it and either stripe it um or just make a 22 logical drives into a one logical drive it's very possible from a software front um it could be it could be integrated into android very very easily that does prevent you from ever taking it out if you ever take it out all your all your stuff gone so then what is the point of external storage i think evan is on the brink of like suggesting you know raid storage and multiple so that my crazy cousin it can totally be done that chris just brought up with the samsung's was that the uh care to remember the name of the phone right now but the first Samsung Windows Phone had a micro SD card slot and you need a card in and I mean I said it was so good and it would format it and then you could never use that card for anything else and it was like your card was just shot okay so that okay so what you're talking about is one poor implements one poor software implementation from Samsung and who ever heard of that a and B like it can be done better like I can absolutely be done better and I feel like this is a conversation an argument you should have made it like 2009 man okay yeah guys I need to I need to make a point here hold on Facebook point which is quite aside from the really in-depth and techy stuff that everybody talking about micro SD cards are just tiny and i'm thinking around for them right now and I can't find it and the thing is I can get behind the whole let's have removable storage i said like i have one card with all of my movies on it i have another card we'd like my dubstep albums on it and such as such and if we do a really good implementation so hard just for your dubstep takes more work TX of dubstep at least you thought you got it's only like this I will find my songs on one card okay nope same card adapters ahem are you really struggling to find your it so here's one right now yeah they're good see okay thing yeah there we go I mean look at how freaking tiny these things I mean the best the most common thing people do with them is lose them when they're not in the phone so this is how Asian disk yeah but we I don't know any stock in sandisk so I can keep going and we'll listen so basically the point I want to make I was just trying to make my opponent man and let me just finish it quickly do it it's very brief it's removable media made sense back in the day will remove a media with something you could graph like you know something you could handle a cartridge like a see ya a minute disk or whatever right SCF yeah perfect example what is this freaking tiny it just way too easy to loot so the removable aspect actually just becomes a pain in a chore I mean that is true that is very true and really like once you put in your micro SD card it's kind of just like in there and and I don't know very many people that are like actively swapping like I take so many pictures then I have to swap to the next card so I can blast through three thousand more 8-megapixel he's also one of those people I would like to note into well I mean I mean there's lots of people that fill up their phones with pictures all day long you know my wife does that all the time but I think you know I understand what you're saying Evan uh but I think that external storage is really not going to come back outside of the world of Samsung anytime soon what I do wish would happen is i wish that manufacturers especially manufacturers like Apple would not charge such a huge premium to get a decent amount of storage built into the device well so here's here's what I would just cause a hundred dollars to put 16 gigs more story and it costs like three dollars and twelve cents so it's like the difference in price between a base level iphone and iphone that's like got a usable amount of storage is like ridiculous the same can be said for the iPads I mean it's very true and but here's here's my like real kind of larger problem with this is that you know the first when you talk about removable storage on Android the first thing people come back with is well I mean phones come with 32 gigs now phones come with 64 gigs you know storage or an option that you can get it is super expensive but Oh rose uh-uh he can't make his point poor evan bayh android phones are not google hangout what do you expect Google shut down that conversation ah so let's let's move on um well actually it's really anti climax again to that Randy okay before we do is squeeze in an extra rent which is on the sim extractor tools so up like in looking for the microSD card I dug up for all of mine and like I say I would like dozen of them and the one of the drive the one level five is really really tiny hello hey Evan side on that and it is really skinny and actually using the LG g2 Simic structure to on the Nexus 5 it's too thick and I find quite a lot of dimension too thick then there's this nokia one which is like really shallow and bent at this point which doesn't get deep enough on some phones and this is the thing i discovered that there's actually fragmentation in sim extraction fools ya know i discovered this i discovered this exact issue last year with the nexus 4 because the the nexus 4 is a really tiny sim slot hole and I couldn't so ignore that I've always kept a nokia pin on my keychain at all times for this exact reason and you i couldn't i confited into the nexus 4 I carry around this bed paperclip because I can never managed to hang on to sim extracting tools and this works for like ninety-five percent of phones except for the stupid Nexus 5 and even sometimes a nexus 4 because it's literally this tiny little thing is too thick to fit in the nexus 5 slot so yeah fragmentation man and and wind enough i'm a christian this one I think no kid Apple make the best instruction to lose if he cares and evan is so you know dismissive and since I conversation let's what what they really not do do iphone TV come with a sim extraction tool I got anymore they used to write at one that maybe I don't know how did they must what would he talk about demo soon I don't know because the sim is already in the phone when you buy it from yeah but for you guys I get the left on phones yeah it's gonna say Apple is selling a a sim free phone now this just happened in like the past week they started stocking the sim free phones and Us stores so they I mean yeah they must include a tool with those I guess but i'm ninety-nine percent sure there wasn't one in my box yeah i don't think there is uh in in most retail boxes i think that uh apple just expects you to either have one if you're looking for one or their apple store employees will handle this insane keep in mind this is the company that's been trying for at least two and a half or three years now to move to embedded sims so it's little surprised that they would make the sim is difficult to get to as possible i have returned we'll see how long this one lasts yes yes witkin so uh it's um well catch me up you're really talking about sim extraction tools right now yes which i'm sure you have some strong thoughts on heaven I have duh no item I mean so whatever I keep it I keep a Nokia in an apple one on my keychain both yes but aren't they interchangeable the problem is that i will do know that nexus the next five or you need to have a super thin one like the Nokia one that comes with the Lumia 1020 to get into it's like no my nokia one is way too thick for LG phones look sorry man sounds like a personal problem i still haven't um i still haven't bought a nexus 5 should i buy nexus 5 absolutely no because are you out of your mr. opportunity to spend eight hundred dollars on it from bestbuy and now you would have to buy it for a reasonable three hundred and fifty dollars so i don't see why you would purchase one I still like the Nexus 4 and nessa this on a bed phone you can buy my activities in wage inviting school but but Evan I'm intend to hooks do you want to wrap up the microsd point here yeah yeah yeah I totally do I totally do so in America um you know all of the flagship phones pretty much come with 32 and 64 gig options- the carrier galaxy s4's but if you um if you know if you want something cheaper than you're buying phones off contract it's really hard to find storage options the HTC One mini is a good example like that only comes in 16 gigs uh and a lot of lower end phones either lower end phones either have removable storage to keep this the costs really low and those are like true low-cost devices or smaller phones that you would imagine to be a little bit lower cost they really only come with 16 gig options and if you're like most people I would imagine if you have constant access to LTE LTE then you're great you can you know you can use all the Google services and you can contribute to their data sets and that is super fine and peachy but if you live internationally and a you don't have access to google music or some of the streaming options that are available in America then you know you're screwed you get 16 gigs and that's all you can get um Wow so the rest of us outside of America I just completely off the web as far as you're concerned as far as what's concerned we need our storage because we have no web services whatsoever but if I just popped up in the States one day yeah that's true there's no there's no wireless outside the US didn't out gorvan spotlight yes brother sunday from fact yeah they're still communicating by a carrier pigeon in the UK I mean come on we can because the other fingers we also don't have any food infrastructure so we kind of tend to eat our pigeons particular there's there's a really good joke about terrible English food in there but I'm gonna leave it alone no you do know that actually one of the famous curries is invented in Birmingham in the UK the bounty curry so um there you go but what does that have to do with LTE we had to do it takes up so much longer to order it yeah it's true all right so you guys want to talk about Windows Phone instagram is easy as it is so last week instagram finally came to Windows Phone in a official capacity uh and there was a bit of a confusion initially about how the app actually worked but it turns out you can indeed take photos with the instagram app on on Microsoft Windows Phone but you can't record videos which is kind of a bummer and kind of a pretty big feature for Instagram these days yeah it's it's it the whole thing was just a train wreck from beginning to end so that they actually Instagram was telling outlets including us that that you could not take photos from within the app and that's still like tesnem take room yeah because you you go to the you go to the camera roll and then you can take a photo from there but like why would you mince words against your product like go ahead and you know just take the take them all again and say yes you can take photos with the app because in reality you can this is on a technicality you have to go outside you have to do it but still from within the app so it is really weird it's a different order of things and say like on Android or iOS where you you get to like take your photo immediately but it's I mean at the end of that you can still open yeah I ok the button and take photos it's just so funny that that was the kind of turn of events because this is such a you know an anticipated moment for Windows Phone and then it just gets immediately so weird trashed and even so though you still can't do video recording with it so they're not at future parody and it seems like it seems like there was some rush imposed most likely by Microsoft keep to get this product out of the door probably in time for the holidays because Instagram is such a big name and was the you know the most important remaining hole in their app lineup but it's it's kind of a hollow victory because they didn't close the gap completely they wanted the name without regard for making sure that the app was every bit as good as it is on other platforms then of course there's ongoing issue and Tom Tom Warren pointed this out in a report that he did on quote unquote closing the app gap that once the app is launched be it Instagram be advised be at Twitter or whatever none of these developers are as committed to keeping those apps updated on Windows Phone as they are an Android iOS for good reason because they have a tenth of the users so there's not you know the impetus and the incentive to keep those users happy isn't as strong mathematically as it is on other platforms and that is going to be an ongoing challenge I mean we even see this with Android Android you know they might Android might have all of the the same big-name apps as iOS but when new features come out they come to iOS first and then be a months later show up on Android I think instagram has been pretty good about keeping its Android app sort of concurrent with with the iOS one but there's still some things that it's missing uh and you know other apps are much worse offenders where it'll be a long time between the the feature parity so it's it's you could just like magnify that for windows phone and you know we've seen that with the just an example is like the official twitter app the official twitter apps on iOS and Android generally get updated the same day they're the same day they get the same new features and then months and months later they'll come to Windows Phone I think it was just recently updated to let you set get alerts when somebody tweets so now you can finally get like mobile alerts through the app when you set say so when a Barack Obama tweets or whatever it'll alert you through the app which the Android and iOS have had for a long long time and when of course the other problem is that they're they're still Microsoft is still chasing these big name apps that are already out but when new like really buzzed where the ABS come out and the example that I used on Twitter when I was talking about this last week is quizup which is a really hot app for iOS right now that won't come out for windows phone for months if ever I don't know like I don't know if quizup has plans to launch on Windows Phone although you probably don't want to download it right now anyway the privacy but yeah I I regardless the point is there you know these these the developers that are trying to get these new apps off the ground naturally choose I OS and to some extent android on day one rim capsules another example of a you know the temple run 2 way to uh incentives go ahead then well the biggest one that's that's the most amusing to me is a mirror's edge which is is now available on Windows Phone and came out I believe or less this past summer I believe if I'm not mistaken that debuted with the iphone 4 in 2010 on iOS and it goes either early two thousand thirteen or middle 2013 when it got to Windows Phone which is like but what were you gonna say about incentives well i'm about to stay and wait wait to Christian Susan okay are we done here the Christmas point he's talking about incentives and you know why developers will keep the development part going and I think we all know even though it has been fish do that instagram coming to Windows Phone was incentivized by big piles of cash from Microsoft right that's pretty much given but their payment most likely related to just bring Instagram to Windows Phone like that sentence and from both perspectives you can see the strategic advantage it's about the conversation of the bus where two guys talking trash about well I've got my windows phone and I've got my iphone and yeah but mine has the apps and then you know they start comparing which apps which platform has etc because that's actually happening out in brio conversations to real people and you can say I've got Instagram Windows Phone even if it doesn't have proper feature parity is there so strategic advantage for Microsoft is there it's fine and you can justify what Microsoft has pushed so hard to get the app onto its platform but Chris identifies a real big issue which is what happens after version 1 point 0 because with the iphone what keeps happening is here's a is 7 update and then two days later here's our iOS 7 update with a few fixes now that we've seen a few errors and whatever it just really in stood and this responsiveness and people are working to vol would improve the app and what I'm noticing happening is with Android which is becoming a stronger more prevalent platform a lot of the developers also using android phones so they have that kind of unprompted stimulus to keep developing their rap on a different platform that iOS everybody knows that iOS is the one that you made the most money on it's one of Mexican sense to develop for developer but if you yourself use Android like me for example like I can't use an iphone anymore because I'm so addicted to the Android Gmail application so if you're stuck with Android for whatever reason and you're a developer um I'm stuck with Android for very positive and a happy reason I'm not complaining it I think for me for my users is more useful than the iPhone because they also don't screw around with premise evading apps like quiz up thank you for the challenge by the way Chris but that being the case that's a little advantage for people if people are using your operating system it encourages them to keep developing for and developing from plea for it so it kinda comes down to is Windows Phone an attractive operating system of people to use it just comes back to the basic set yeah I mean really this is this same old story that we've had since since Windows Phone came out uh it does seem like you know they are getting more and more of the apps that we've been looking for in addition to Instagram vine is now available the same day that Instagram came out ways came out uh which i'm not sure why you'd use ways but it's out uh and there are other big-name apps that have come along you know they now have pandora and paypal and and all these other apps that that we're listening for a long time but to be clear ways is like the netflix of of navigation apps like they're their sole goal is to be on every platform imaginable so it's like to an extent i'm like you know when when I hear that weighs comes to Windows Phone I don't think that's and that's actually indicative of any trend well the only thing that's really interesting about ways coming to interest about Windows Phone to me at least is the fact that ways is now owned owned by Google and Google has pretty much said that we're not really developing for windows phone until it gets more right well part of ways this whole deal is just acquiring massive quantities of traffic data so I mean maybe that's google's play or waze's play is like well you know maybe nobody will use it but we'll still be able to suck down a bunch of traffic and you know public transit data well I talked to Tom a little bit about that and his theory and I think this is probably a reasonable one is that they had windows phone on their roadmap prior to the Google acquisition hmm so it's even though and and Google as we've seen from Motorola has a habit of running some of its acquisitions as independent companies anyone know that's the case with ways or not but they do still identify as ways not as Google I think yeah so here's one another question actually have about Windows Phone now that the Xbox one has happened first of all any of you guys buying have you obtained an xbox one yet yes yes Chris you care about the synergies that things like Xbox SmartGlass and whatever other carpeting apps types of those do you care about those things I use SmartGlass quite a bit but only because the xbox one's um control like AV control environment / ecosystem is it just an enormous bag of hurt as Neil I did a pretty good job of laying out in his report a few weeks ago so having smart glass as a tool to help control that is a good thing but what do you used on hers Oh on my iPhone yeah so things like there's no there's no reason for you to buy a windows phone in order to use your Xbox you don't you don't do gain anything by having Microsoft's own phone yeah that was my question to Microsoft's gaming system and I think the answer is going to be no because microscope was wise enough to realize that we need to release this out on Android and iOS because that's where the users are right it's funny going all the way back to Windows Phone 7 Microsoft had made such big big promises about Xbox Live integration and none of that really materialized right well it what one thing has there's a there's a halo game on Windows Phone and you can't get that on Android or iOS so if you really want to play halo yeah and you you know you can see your your avatar and your your gamer points and all that nonsense but it's not like it's nothing like I mean if Microsoft had been really smart in that regard they would have done something similar what Sony is doing with Vita and remote play it's 18 they never did that what's really interesting to me is like this kind of goes to Microsoft's play on it all of its platforms they all look very similar now even though the xbox dashboard looks very much like Windows 8 which looks very much like Windows Phone 8 but the xbox dashboard doesn't really talk to windows 8 and windows 8 doesn't talk to Windows Phone 8 and it's like they have all of these products that look very similar and maybe function very similarly but there's no benefit to you to have a windows phone 8 and a Windows 8 tablet at the same time like you can't share your apps your data might be shared over through the cloud but you know if I'm storing stuff in SkyDrive it can also access SkyDrive on my Mac and I can access SkyDrive on a ipad and etc etc so it's like there seems like there's some sort of opportunities that are not being taken advantage of at least not yet right well talking about incentives like if if Microsoft can't incentivize developers you know on a massive scale to develop apps for their platform perhaps they can incentivize consumers with a tighter integration between there are three platforms exactly i mean if if like if I'm playing like if I'm doing something and I just want to like share data between my windows 8 tablet and my windows phone 8 or you know share a nap across them or something like that like that that kind of makes sense but it's not happening not now at least well let's just point out the fact that nobody is really doing that beautiful integration across devices well the iPad and the iphone i can buy and I an app on my iPad and I can use it on my iphone if it's a universal app in place yes but it's incomplete it's incomplete is what I'm saying so yeah that there are some strengths but for example if you go and try to rely on iCloud you quickly realize that Google services so much superior what are you talking about okay and and the other thing is I work for iCloud is just a joke it's like some kid trying to copy Google Docs it's terrible it's is so far from being useful um but yeah I mean my in my experience again I find the most useful implementation should be Google's so I can mess around with some notes on my phone on google drive and then jump onto my a chrome on my desktop and the notes are there and things like that but it's still really rudimentary still a sort of thing where you feel like you're just getting some basic sync between your devices and that's it whereas I think the vision that Chris had as well with the initial introduction Windows Phone something like perfect design for me is the xbox live arcade right so those are lighter games simple games once it don't require as much storage if you could just you know bring that onto the phone and have games like braid and whatever just accessible and your phone it opens up so many more possibilities and and it frustrates me as well when guys that Microsoft promised things like well we now have direct x compatibility in Windows Phone 8 and I keep waiting ok we have direct x compatibility now where are other more advanced games where is this awesomeness that I can't get on the other platforms and Alex who keeps missing I mean that's the story of every build conference you know for the last couple of years I mean you guys remember that that demonstration where they showed a game being played on a Windows 8 machine at the initial windows 8 BUILD conference and then you know kind of seamlessly transitioning over to continuing the game on the subway but those kind of features like never really materialized and we know we're still waiting for them now Chris let me ask you this have you tried using um the xbox one SkyDrive and integration for game streaming no so from what I understand you can record you can use the like five minute DVR a feature of the xbox one to record five minutes of gameplay and then I think that you can have that automatically deposit that five minutes into SkyDrive and I think there's pretty tight integration with Facebook so you can very seamlessly post those game those game trailers to order this game that gameplay footage directly onto facebook so like these little integrations are like starting to make their way but I think what we're all realizing at this point is it's like really hard and that's why no one is really doing it but I mean Microsoft is at least trying yeah I usually isn't alone well I was just gonna say I use I use so the xbox one is a built-in video sharing service called upload and you can choose like when you save a video clip you can choose to save it to upload or to SkyDrive and I don't think I've ever opens SkyDrive in my life at least not intentionally so I just I'm using the upload service this guy drive is good don't hate SkyDrive yeah SkyDrive is actually one of the better cloud backup if you're listening to this podcast like two months from now maybe in 2014 or some point we'll probably be talking about a new service whatever the new name is right because they were name is cod right all right but yeah just to just to add to the point meiosis isn't alone in capturing these gameplay footage things Sony did the whole extra hardware layer so we can do game recording and the ps4 which device I am totally not a gamer and I'm like a self-proclaimed not a gamer uh but there's just like I just cannot grasp the appeal of watching somebody else's recorded gameplay footage like I know I know and there's like millions of people that use this twitch service and things like that but I'm like why would I want to watch some guy running around through whatever game it is uh but there's reasons there's reasons particularly for like guides if you're struggling with overcoming about a particular boss fight or whatever else and like hyper competitive gaming like Starcraft is huge because people want to see other people's strategies and it's like a big deal well I uploaded a sweet video of me doing donuts in a 90 91 GMC typhoon our cyclone excuse me so I but I don't know what you guys are talking about like why people wouldn't want to see that I don't know that's 15 seconds of your life well spent that's the thing i think i'm totally booked with dan what i am the opposite of that is far as game system work for my upbringing than proper education has but i I don't I don't get the appeal of particularly like streaming your gaming session like not doing something clearly focused such as a guide or such as Chris is showing up from whatever else I've already watched I've watched Tom Warren successfully defend his his goal in in fifa 14 so I mean I like I'm all about it I every time I see one of my friends upload a video I'm I'm all up on it I love it but it's just so wrong and okay but also to mention on the pc nvidia has this shadow play feature which a lot of people quite enthusiastic about which pretty much does the same thing i'm just trying to convey the idea that everybody seems to be getting on board with it and then and i completely don't get it chris is being a troll right now but I mean particularly with games if you're going to show a video of it you're really just showing off your experience of the same thing that other people are most likely going to experience as well it's kind of like um yeah bring it back to like it's but it's it's no different than wine watch a replay of like a really good uh you know touchdown in a football game like there are there are epic moments in games that are that have entertainment value like you know a good a good overtake in in a heated force a match I'll watch that yeah that is valid that's fine i'm not going to argue with that I'd like I guess the thing is with games most of the time you don't have these highlight of things so right i guess if you're being selective and just uploading the particularly juicy bits then i can get behind that but also since we are under this topic very briefly i would just like to point out this entire hoop around the new consoles is completely premature as far as I'm concerned nobody should care until titanfall shows up on the Xbox one and just blows us all away these consoles don't have that amazing game which is going to keep you locked in next to you TV throughout the holiday season which i think is you know the hallmark of a good console launch and if you want the absolute prettiest and best graphics you still have to consume pc and play battlefield 4 which looks stunning I get a good graphics card play battlefield 4 no true settings it will make you forget about the consoles seriously but there's also the other proviso / caveat that better fit for its gameplay is actually like stupid horribly horribly stupid I haven't gotten to the multiplayer but a single player missions just lay it's exactly like the stunning supermodel stereotype amazing to look at completely dumb and hollow on the inside actually just give them my chest so uh kind of going back to to this integration and consumer incentivizing thing really quick Chris have you you can you could you watch your friends uh like DVR or live streamed footage on smart glass I'm smart glass I don't think so but they're you like third party apps can integrate listen with SmartGlass i think and xbox one ships with twitch yeah so there might be some integration point there i don't know i don't use twitch and I don't have twitch installed on that's box but it's possible okay well I'm just trying to figure out which is like who has the tighter like the tighter app integration because the PlayStation app just came out the other day and it will allow you to throw to you stream uh but but aside from that like aside from the smart glass app I'm really at a loss to to kind of understand who is who is in reading better because Microsoft has the advantage i would i would think because the design language between Windows Phone and the Xbox like you I and the windows 8 UI is like very contiguous it feels very cohesive uh and Sony's kind of trying to deal with their own closed ecosystem but also Android and but I mean the PlayStation app will let you Lena will let you see what your what your friends are playing and it'll let you buy games right from the app why I agree I agree with you that there's design synergy between the xbox one and Windows 8 Windows Phone but I don't think that any human being on the planet with an Xbox one is saying ooh I like this you I I'm gonna go buy a windows phone now like then that's not that's not happening hmm I just need to call out Evan on his use of contiguous it was misused I apologize you've been docked one point so uh if you guys don't mind let's let's move on I've got a question and it is as I fall my face to this transition this is this is on topic and I just I just make sure this isn't an embargo I got an email from bestbuy they got two special offers launching tomorrow if sin embargo whatever like I devices but guys guys that okay they've got a free samsung galaxy s4 deal with a two-year activation of best buy and best buy mobile species to starting wednesday free saturday do you guys swing the galaxy s4 is worth buying at this point I'm curious what was the deal i was listening it's a free galaxy s4 with a two-year contract presume that that's a better deal than pretty much any any of the carriers are offering on the galaxy s4 i mean i think the the this is my best buy so whatever carrier specify offers but the i think the galaxy s4 is very much like the iphone in that you know Samsung will release it in June or whatever it's going to be a competitive device through to almost right up until the next June when the next comes out uh you know if you look at the actual specifications of it it's got a you know powerful processor really high res screen a good camera and everything like that so if you liked the galaxy s4 six months ago there's no reason not to like it now you know Nelson has removable storage the galaxy s5 is going to be curbed isn't it no no and actually on that topic there has been a couple of stories is coming up careers saying that the first generation of flexible screen devices are flopping now the reason we didn't cover that is because they seem to be very flaky in terms of sourcing it's anonymous sources and nobody sounds particularly confident about the numbers but at least one occasion out I mean well it's been a month over a month but they're being sold in really limited quantities right i mean like it's not like it's available all over the world they're being sold just in korea i think right and they're being sold alongside their flat equivalents which are presumably much cheaper in store it's possible it was i'm just saying again with the proviso mentioned that at least the earliest feedback we've heard about them hasn't been that positive which as far as you're concerned cruise is a positive because it would probably put them off i mean again cease fire there's no chance of do curve because they just can't do that mass production levels it CJ the mass production levels geneve Evan record a record the last ten seconds of this podcast I want to put that in Vlad's face when the galaxy s5 is curved no problem we'll have a breakout alright thanks awesome but I actually am concerned this into a pretty nice transition here into pretty nice segue provided nobody interesting which is to say that the google play edition of the galaxy s4 just out of getting the 4.4 kitkat update as has the HTC one which is a credential the past week a whole bunch of phones got it the nexus 4 finally the role that started for that uh I've had it on my Nexus 4 for a week or so and the Moto X's right now it's available from Verizon t-mobile and AT&T moto x's ah so it's just leaving sprint out of the equation for their so and then it just started yesterday i believe the google play edition HTC One and Galaxy s4 started getting that's right android 4.4 so uh you know it's good to see it's making its way around um I doubt we're gonna hear any more about android 4.4 kitkat rollouts um for a while because at this point it's the carrier or the manufacturer customized versions that are are the majority of things left so that's gonna be a while before those get it yeah and also my one either so pissed here's the thing my sincerest hope about android 4.4 is that come see yest in january nobody comes out with a phone with an android phone that doesn't have it oh my god you are so high there you're gonna that's all having definitely hungry the best yeah dude i bet you we're at CES we're gonna see some chinese manufacturer release a phone with android 4.1 I guarantee it but but no I there are they're not going to be any major phone announcements CES there aren't but the Chinese manufacturers doing else thinks okay see cnet now ever keep recording oh yeah because we're in it we're gonna need to vote is back in Chris you know what's gonna happen is like Sony is going to announce yes like it did last yes and Sony and Sonia to announce the phone with android 4.2 okay first we'll only to qualify a statement to say there will not be a new phone and see yes that is that launches or is available to buy before April and a client but wait what what does sony have in the pipeline right now they're they have a fresh megaphone and they have a fresh well guess nose so the song that is precious something and the Russia Sony rumors right now that's what the freshest Sony rumors on out in the Sony the Saudi beat is a refreshed xperia z1 uh either called the Xperia z2 or possibly the z1s that people thought was the z1 mini uh I guess that's pasta it's people are kind of not sure because this is all rumery and shady and that sort of thing and then there's also the international xperia z1 Mini which please I need to Heidi one so bad so the way our vision what the rumors say it's nobody's gonna know I mean best phone in the world right now till they come out with one that's the size for a human hand but it existed the van as it for Japan the mini version yes well you want to kokomo it's I mean it's a docomo exclusive there's no guarantee that the international one will ever come out so just man up a move to Japan that's cool hey so while we're deep in the sony i'm just going to use this in steamroll this transition right into the the sony smartwatch 2 which I i reviewed and it went up today and if you haven't read it go read it um and I just I'm just going to sum this up by saying that it breaks my heart because the SmartWatch 2 is in my opinion at least the best-looking SmartWatch we've seen um the one that's the least embarrassing to wear ah but it's software is so clunky and so difficult to use that it is not worth it and that's it's sad it's better than the SmartWatch 1 by leaps and bounds but it is not I don't even like it as much usability wise as a pebble and certainly not where I would hope that a new SmartWatch would be at this point no one understands what a SmartWatch should be except me I'm literally the only human being so nice is this is where smart watches are smart watches it is smart watches are the two thousand were in the 2005 smartphone world of smartwatches yeah we're in the 2001 tablet world of tablets and we're still a couple years away until somebody really figures this out and you know there's always there's all this demand and all this interests and all this intrigue and nobody seems to get it right and then somebody's going to figure it out and there's going to be its iPhone moment and then you know it's going to be it's going to be great and then and everybody a want one but we're not there yet and all of the things that have been tried are really not not it but I'm convinced that's not I see where you're going with that I'm not convinced it's a perfect analogy because I think what makes wearable shine is when they are our put I mean there are things you're literally wearing like clothes and like jewelry they need to be personalized to the person that's wearing them is why uh but you know glass looks juice well let's look stupid at anybody but yes it isn't personalized to the person that's wearing it there's been talk about ending it with prescriptions that's hard to figuring it out I mean maybe maybe that's what needs to be figured out it should make these things successful but they also need to figure out usability and functionality and features yep ah that aren't there yet um right so I think I nice with this battery life yeah and battery life I was gonna say with SmartWatch to Sony did do a number of things right uh in my tests i got easily got three to four days of battery life which is acceptable at this point for these things and it charges over micro USB which means it uses the same charging cable as my phone uh which is such a stupid thing that i have to bring it up but no other SmartWatch does that so or none other that I've used at least so that's it's kind of a major convenience that I like the Sony did but i can't stand using the software here is my contribution and it particularly goes to the software side the sony smartwatch 2 is probably the saddest out-of-the-box experience that I've had with any gadget over the past how many years 23 years overlooked as Ben it's just I pulled it out first of all I got that metal strap on my review unit where his thang got the plastic one the silicon one the rubber one yeah brah okay and the metal strap I had no idea of how to adjust it so it was way too big and it was cold and it was unpleasant you know my gentle gentle wrist just weren't ready for it but aside from that you turn it on you start looking inside it for things to do and it's just so barren it's like we have a wallpaper we have a time app and a timer app and we have like four watch faces and that is it you're on your own after that and then you have to go and search and dig and enhance the functionality and getting notifications set up and all this other baloney and nonsense which I just wasn't even interested in doing because I don't find it that attractive I don't like the fact that you have the free Android buttons on it there's absolutely no reason for them to be on their it needs to be clean like chris says it is something you would want to just wear for the sake of keeping time like get that right first compete with the guys who are already doing that correctly yeah and then we want to try to enhance things yes I do not Chris we were you picking your nose yes what just happened what you're not familiar with this gesture have you address your raisin you got it this means not it I mean yes no yes I mean international nose goes territory none of you guys have played charades did this this means yes that's it you have it right like if you're if you're playing charades and somebody has a word right in a phrase you go like that meaning spot on I've always just seemed people point and be like no you guys are if you're onto if you're listening to the show right now and you're on Twitter will somebody please back me up that this means spot on Chris who play charades we all have extra spirits I trust Chris and his Wikipedia sources I'm down with them listen if needed i'm sure it's come on and I'm very happy to just collect the endorsement from Chris that that makes my day um I'm basically I don't sit what can I say what gets it why do you and I are going to kick-start a proper smat watch yes that's what k underneath another SmartWatch project yeah but they good how else i should thinking about that today and it's kind of depressing to me when you think about the 90s yeah i mean it's gonna be like to 22nd century or whatever and i'm gonna have artificial hearts and artificial everything else and i'm still gonna be in a state think about 1990s that was my decade but as I just mentioned that he's going to be alive in the 22nd century which is no less than eighty seven years away wait why not glad glad plans to be absent Orion at least dude I am definitely eating the right day for this is no cabbage to survive wait isn't that Ryan like a like a Roman warrior or something second area is that what I'm trying to say centenary maybe yeah but since ensuring is so much cooler so I'm down with it no but seriously in the 90s we had feet we had already figured out anyone before the 90s it's just that's my recollection we had already figured out how to make a watch work without any extra power right you could just with the movement of your hand you could recharge watch now that actually happened decades before that but I just talking about the freaking nineties man whatever I was saying that one didn't happen as far they did they figured it out decades before maybe it trickled down to actually accessible for Norville's by that but ok listen if the 90s citizeness minutes had kinetic watches since the 60s i'm pretty sure i didn't say we invented kinetic watches in the 1990s so stop bugging report man all I'm saying is if that's the last relatable decade for me we'll have you wanna do have an even younger audience let's not push it too far back my point is is because we had figured out how to have a watch keep going perpetually without needed to recharge it or do any extra special things we have figured out how to have a contact book without requiring any power whereas the way we're moving now is every single one of these things that we could do mechanically or is some other automatic fashion now requires power now we need electricity to power off just for a watch just to keep time just to keep you know our contacts up to date and all of these things and it's like we lose the tactility of having an actual nice notebook in which you give your contacts we lose the ability to write because we no longer need to do it like can you can any of you remember writing like physically writing or other than signing signature on a bill I take notes in a notebook all the time yeah I take notes yeah okay well good you know that my hand right now hard y'all's plan nation but I don't know I mean I guess I'm just kind of having one of those nostalgic anti-tech moments where you kind of think well why does everything need a freaking battery in it why does everything need to be powered whereas we figured out ways to do these things you know adequately already without power you know and and that to me is the fundamental issue with smart wishes is they start sucking down power they start demanding disturbing yet another device that you need to keep recharged on a weekly basis or wherever else and like like you guys are saying we need a really compelling feature a real must have additional value or benefit that makes us want to do the extra charge again that extra fuss mm-hmm I think it just is what makes it so hard right now because on the one hand you want a SmartWatch to have like this this great functionality right out of the box you want it to look great you want to be a fantastic time peace um and you also want it to you know kind of have a couple of staples of like smartness you know you want to receive notifications and you want to be able to like accept and receive calls or accept and deny calls from your wrist um but what makes it really challenging is that inevitably people will want to do so much more with it so you have to kind of know Nadia vut ibly this Samsung has put it in your head that you need to be able to do so much more with your SmartWatch you don't know you don't know i'm not saying like you don't need to do more things with your SmartWatch like I don't want to add and remove contacts I don't want to like flick through it to change music I just want the applied I mean you know G to each their own but like you need to at least have the capability of extending the functionality to things like when I you know get in proximity of my computer unlock it ohh or if if I'm in proximity of my door you know automatically unlock that or start up my car or whatever well so motorola kind of took a baby step in that direction with its trusted Bluetooth device concept right which is pretty cool like I remember for wild eater had his pebble set up as his trusted object I I must I must note that you do not need a motorola to do that you could there's there's apps for the pebble and there's actually apps for the sony smartwatch i mentioned in the review that let you do the same thing with your phone but it doesn't open my house door and it doesn't sign me into my laptop and things like that that it could do best buy is now selling uh what is it called chemo or Kibo or Kiki go or something like that it's it's the it's the Bluetooth deadbolt so in there they're slowly moving that direction but it's going to be just complete nightmare because they're there will be no standards for it uh and you know that that's why earlier today on twitter i was i was saying that it we need harmony irobot nast and Dyson to just merge and like take over the home oh because no one else is going to do this in a way that makes any sense anest obviously has like a plan a road map but they're moving very slowly so maybe with some additional horsepower they would be able to move a little quicker but yeah I mean all these companies are coming up with their own solutions for it it's it's a great idea they just need to move faster and they need to do in a way that is standardized would you say how many do you mean a logitech comedy yeah yeah butBut logitech logitech said like six months ago that they want to spin off harmony right so spin it right off into miss nest yeah just yeah spin it off in the Internet's nest and then maybe James Dyson will air blade it into a I don't know come up with some dude you kill your bagless vacuum yes all right guys before we do wrap up I I do think that there's the cool no a utility here with using the SmartWatch as a security device that I mean you guys remember a couple of podcasts ago diesel was asking what is the smallest tiniest bluetooth you know transceiver that can have in order to you know do that security and unlocking thing and if you put it in the watch that is the thing that is most secure among all your devices because it's literally strapped to you you know if even Google glass isn't you know strap to you I I don't really have another way of saying that so I personally if you make a smart watch that yeah is syncs up with the computer and just unlocks it powers it up from sleep when you're next to it etc and just does these things really smoothly I could say I done what the Sony SmartWatch to experience where everything is better and then I have to go and hunt around and do things I just needed to be out of the box working beautiful and lovely and impressive to nearby ladies I think that is where you know smartwatches committee start take it off and on that note impressing the ladies wraps up this episode of The Verge mobile show so we thank you for listening and tuning in if you want to follow us you can of course follow us at verge and I'm DC seifert Vlad is vlad savov evan is evan rodgers that's right and chris is e power and dieter bohn is at back lawn and hopefully he'll be joining us again next week and if you're in the US have a happy holiday eat some turkey or tofurkey or whatever you'd like to eat and we'll see you guys next week deuces later yeah right