Gadgetory

nice start laughing this is how you know I am NOT the guy who usually does this introduction greetings mobile accomplishes i am glad sabbath this is episode 65 of the verge babu show and i'll let everybody else introduce themselves wow I'm dieter bohn i'm dan seifert i'm chris sigler and we are we are so very fortunate to be joined by an esteemed industry colleague a former direct colleague of Vlad's and mine and just an overall wonderful human being miriam jar of pebble hey hey is it going everyone welcome the intro Chris I was really awesome I I do what I can I do what I can I look I had to make up for that flub by Vlad I had to do something when in Vlad's defense we actually had to we are without our amazing producer Evan and so we're kind of flying by the seat of our pants here and buttons that some of us should have aren't showing up we're all very confused and lost and it put me in charge of the controls I mean it was completing advisable but what can you do and so then we just can't take a patent to dieter line and make it your own he throws us I have you can't patent a line you get copyrighted I actually I tell you guys I got permission to use that line just just in case did you I did well you know it's the thing i said back since trio central and so you know it was the thing I sure they're so it's sooo freakin line isn't it greetings mobile copters welcome Miriam so we're here to talk about pebble for an hour and a half right right of course well actually I'm on my lunch break right now so you know you caught me at the right time before the show is over we are going to our goal on this show our only goal is to press Miriam into giving up the goods on pebbles future plans yeah well no I want to know when are we gonna see the sweet Iowa 7 juice yes um that's actually next up this is the biggest priority right now so stay tuned it's coming very soon all right well I mean technical purple already has the perfect iOS 7 design because everything is flat there's like nothing freely about it it's true it's so simple monochromatic flat I think I don't think that was dealer was talking about frankly blood are you with us I am with you I've just had a very very long day I've had kind of an HTC One max sighs there you go buy the HTC One taken to the max yes have you max out how did that happen I mean tell me one good thing about this phone it has great better than one battery low the screen is actually really nice just far too large yeah I'm sure it is yeah I mean you can tick look at it look at that thing Miriam do you have a regular sized one yeah that's what i call them one medium now cuz we now go here is the google play edition one ready look at that size different hang on hang on hang on I'm lining them up can we see this I don't know why yeah yeah they can see that it's pretty absurd so you're so Nikolas like I have given up on complaining about big screen phones like the the Galaxy Note has convinced me that yes there's a market for this and if you do something interesting it's cool when LG makes their giant phones like whatever its LG just go make your 4 by 3 aspect ratio stuff I'm not just not gonna worry about it but HTC like come on guys I thought that you were better than this I thought that you knew exactly what it was your doing and no you don't it's kind of a terrible mish mish mash of things this fall well I mean I credit where credit's due like HTC recognize the need to have like a multi size portfolio and they they kind of heard the call for you know a small flagship a medium-sized flagship and a large flagship all in in the lineup and so you know Vlad I know you like the mini right that was a question for you I have not seven be okay second i love the meeting I love ya any Union fact and I got to tell you having to review the one max and then going back to the one makes you appreciate the size and lightness of the one so much more mmm so that's maybe one of the best impacts of the one max is it makes you appreciate the other devices and how could those designs are so you would take you would take a galaxy note 3 over a max yes any day of the week yes and I'm not a sense on person hmm but well actually if I can pull us back a little bit actually like Jesus question which was tell us something good about the one max because it's so easy to talk about the bad things and everybody's going to you know tear it to pieces that things are easy it's way too heavy way too awkward it just doesn't make sense in any sort of ergonomic way but the good things whether this as many of them so the display is still very good it's still super OCD the battery life all of us should be reviewing this device we should be in comparing notes and everybody just wowed by it it's phenomenal extremely long better life but then you know is that big you can fit a big-ass battery in it so it kind of makes sense and it was a third part kind of issue for carcass it's a boomsound speakers i've got to say i have a bluetooth speaker in my kitchen which i usually whatever phone i'm using hook it up to it to the radio I don't need that with the one max or even with the one those boomsound speakers are just really good it's like the best because you can get on any mobile device so those are the good things yeah also expandable storage microSD that's a good thing um arguably the speakers I agree the display I agree the camera is decent but they unfortunately completely destroyed it by omitting i/o is which look if you're gonna have a 4 megapixel camera and you're willing to sacrifice on some detail at least you know compensate for all civil i experienced by having oh I and that's what the one did but on the mini and the butterfly ass and the max they remove that and I don't understand what's the adventures of ultrapixels when you don't have a weii ass I mean it gathers a little bit more like big deal the 8-megapixel 1x and DNA camera was good enough already I I can understand it with the mini because it's a lower price point camera or phone and maybe it's a smaller size and their size issues there I don't understand it at all why it was omitted from the one max but here's a butterfly ass now I mean the one max is a very confusing device is something that is the HTC is this your new flex your phone and they were like what do you consider a flagship and they were going to do so metaphysical conversation about what your flagship is it's like okay well your head about the stage where your current flag should be started to grow a bit tired you want to replace it with something but then you go with a device that is so much bigger it doesn't really fit into a smartphone category but then you also upgrade it in some respects and then don't in other so things like optical image stabilization is missing but then you put the fingerprint sensor on this you put your latest sense 5.5 software on this it's like I mean what are you doing I am Brady's new unit yes okay so the thing that I mean the fingerprint sensor first of all that's it like they it's terrible very poor implementation but here's the problem i have with the HTC max we learned how many years ago seven years ago at least maybe more if you want to give almost some credit that you can't just take and I bet you do dieter little you can't just take we learned you can't take a giant desktop operating system interface and shrink it down and stick it out of phone you look at the early versions of pocket pc and windows mobile like really start menu I that come on like you can't take a giant desktop interface and put it on a phone and so now the max is the perfect example of going with the same problem in the other direction you can't just take a regular smartphone interface and blow it up to you know six and a half inches or whatever whatever the hell size are like you need to think about what a device of this size should have foreign interface that's in between a tablet and a smartphone and the reason that the galaxy note and note 3 managed this a little bit better is they have a stylist and so they have a sense of using it in a sort of a tablet e way and yeah they need to go further they need to think through those you I things more but as far as I can tell HTC hasn't thought at all about the era nomics of either the software and not enough about the device itself although they did finally put the power button in the right place um and but they just they just made a big phone and like that's you can't just make a little desktop you can't just make a big phone anymore you've got to think more about what it how it should work and what it should look like well Joe I take exception to that I have to correct you a big phone is the samsung galaxy s4 this is a big vote right I can put it in front of my face you can still see parts of my face yeah one max I put it in front it's like this it's not a big phone its massive its massive is anything the displays actually five point nine inches on this thing but then dieter is right it kind of feels like as a six and a half inch display because of the fact that has a bunch of bezel and I mean it isn't really officially designed at all I mean the 6.4 inch xperia z ultra is we made as still as possible and it actually feels like a fundamentally different device whereas HTC have literally inflated every dimension of respect so weights has been inflated thickness width height everything and this is what problem got is really it doesn't work like the you know the note 3 has a lot more screen to surface area like a better ratio right and if you put it next to the max that's it's amazing the size difference considering is only point 2 inches difference in screen size it's kind of it's like comparing the g2 with a 5.2 inch screen to the the one the regular one right there the same physical size more or less phone wise but one is completely covered in displaying well the other one isn't and and to me that's that's the future I think that and they've missed the boat there on that but here's the other thing that kind of bugs me about the what the one except one of the things that the HTC one was so awesome about is that machined fit and finish the fact that they molded the plastic inside the metal and machine the whole thing as one so the seams were perfectly seamless basically between the materials this because it has a removable back cover it's all seams in and you know you can feel the where the metal ends and the plastic begins it doesn't feel as luxurious and as well made so you've lost kind of the advantage of having a phone made out of metal almost because it's just it just doesn't feel as well made so at that point you know I think the again I've been sioned the butterfly ass a few times if the butterfly has had a slightly bigger screen had oh is it has a faster cpu it's got a 1.9 gigahertz Snapdragon 600 versus 1.7 to me that and it has micro SD to me that would be that would be a better choice you know so I don't know I don't know what they were thinking again it's just to me it's a too much of a good thing it's not a good thing what I get I totally get the need I mean again going back to like I totally appreciate the spirit of what HTC is trying to do by taking like a single great ID and turning it into an entire portfolio form factor so you can just say well I know I want I know I really like what HTC is doing with ID in with their you with their UX and whatever I just need to pick the size that's right for me the problem is that they can quite execute on that correctly right but like that the spirit of what they're trying to do is there and it's a good thing like being able to to say I want a great phone I just want to choose the size instead of being or having to say why I want the best phone so it needs to be 4.5 or 4.75 inches they having that entire line is a great way to go I think that's true but well sometimes don't scale well and this didn't scale well I would like it better if it had been made in solid gold god that thing is a monstrosity I don't know glad me read you guys got to see that that monster I got to touch that thing and go to touch it it's wrong now you know the gold live phone feels okay right like you've seen it it looks it's not tacky it's that goal it's gold champagne it's a blast don't call it champagne the champagne peoples are going to sue you for calling you champagne now don't call you a sparkly bubbly wine made in France yeah also I mean my boy life is also gonna get mad if you call it champagne let's sure Lulu champagne the gold HTC one is really over the top and it scratches really easily well so it's like a 24 karat gold plating is easy Oh 18 yeah that's no pretty soft but it's it's been finished with some kind of coating to prevent scuffing or whatever but I don't think that really worked one we saw was already beat up oh you start beat up they only make it like what is it four or five of these 18 karat gold plated HTC one's to celebrate some music awards here in the UK but i'm pretty sure the flesh of my camera scratched the surface the photons did damage yeah haha yes is it is it considerably heavier than a normal one or i mean it's it's just plating right so it's not like solid gold or anything I i would consider buying a solid gold HTC one just for the novelty of it you know like a hundred-thousand-dollar HTC one that was just pure gold that might be down I wouldn't use it I would just you know keep it in its velvet box you'd wear it around your neck I quick lead we're a second ninety thousand dollar hc1 kristas are interested but as soon as again six vegas he's like okay then i made a market for this yeah yeah we're talking yeah yeah so i guess we should round out the aged I mean I have nothing else to say about a gold wait wait wait I had a great I had a great I had a great transition that I will reuse do it um so you were talking about like we get credit for transitions that we call out before the transition oh yeah so we don't get credit if others don't interrupt stealing somebody else's transition uh glad you'll be rich and i will be almost as rude I hate all of you guys I think my transition was that word you were talking about how like the the 1x the the one max is it one x max for one max mon- okay with a lowercase M you were talking about yes with lowercase F what I was how the one the one max doesn't do a good job of scaling up to that screen size however something that is attempting to scale up to a bigger screen size is Windows Phone 8 Update 3 i'm going to talk about the Amazon HTC hook up first look that's not Chris I'm looking at our topic list dude what do you want me to do I rearranged it no you didn't i see HTC a man i see windows phone yeah but we this is the worst transition i hate you guys I don't care anymore oh dude they put me in charge of the red button so quickly sis we go okay the patients have taken over the asylum now that was very good that was a very good transitive we don't HTC maybe he's working with Amazon our phone who knows we'll worry about that later but ya know so what do we think of this update 3 like I am feeling kind of like renowned like is it the way I feel about it is it is there's there's nothing significant for existing users and it's all for the new it's all for new users is everything that's involved with this update as far as I'm concerned and with user facing features uh which is like you know Microsoft needs to do that because it needs more new users but it kind of sucks for all the people that have been waiting for features for a long time and then Microsoft's like here you go you can lock the rotation of the screen now update 3 good onya yeah I mean it's just like so does it's like it's almost depressing like at how little I think there's like two major new user facing features if you have like a 925 or 920 or whatever you can lock the screen rotation and you can now close apps from the multitasking function you had a lycra user ringtones can we swear on this show in moderation all I have to say about the update is whoop de doo yeah that's appropriate uh-uh he's like where's my notification center yeah that's a lot yeah but but that would be if they were doing that that wouldn't be like an update three two windows phone 8 right that would be 8.1 or nine or sign so he'll be like Windows Phone 10 how long since eight came out I left you remember yeah over a year so like we need to see a one pretty soon I mean we rag on Windows Phone a lot but it's always from a like a place of they not love and secretly hoping they're not even secret like hoping that they'll get their app situation figured out and we can like really like get behind this platform in a real way and it's like well they just can't get there but I'm like I'm starting to lose that like faith that trust in the platform like the core platform like Microsoft needs to like add stuff to this and and and not just like put out a you know another update that just gets it ready for nokia to kick out a giant ass phone like that's what that's the real purpose of this thing right right I'd like to make a proper the proposed something a Microsoft is that they need to call the next version of Windows Phone Windows Phone X because 10 no because Xbox thank all the windows found metro that's what they need to do just pony up and pay villa I was trying to make a joke Teeter I'm sorry I'm the derailleur today that's okay we love you too bye um so what do you think you think it's almost not the thing that users can't see yet because there's nothing that supports yeah but yeah I mean like Peter said Windows Phone 8 release update 3 or whatever they're calling it now now let's now supports 1080p displays larger displays with three columns of data and new processors but nobody can take advantage of those yet until nokia kicks out a big ass phone which they will next week I in Abu Dhabi right she's just largely expected to happen next week and a tablet yeah which won't be running Windows Phone 8 like that's another question that they need to answer right like how are they going to merge they can't continue forever pretending that Windows Phone and Windows are separate platforms particularly now that windows phone is on the NT kernel they need to like push RT and Windows Phone together and and maybe the reorganization that Ballmer put into place a few months ago this is the you know the final step in making that a reality but we're not there yet so that's still like a really confusing message for for customers I think so maybe that's the reason to be optimistic here crisis you know from our outsider perspective it kind of seems like when the small development is happening slowly but maybe they're doing exactly that they're bridging the gap there putting things together pretty things in place so that arm-based windows devices and windows phones over on the same OS same software and all other stuff basically is who come together behind the scenes before they just unleash it on the world and take over and kinkos was asked your tells me I don't want column delays but if these like these long waits are to them genuinely and actually doing that as opposed to like you know talking about how other stuff integrates and how there's synchronicity between them but not actually like having it just be simple and straightforward for developers and users that you buy one on one thing it's on the other platforms and it's all the same they're actually getting to that vision that we've been talking about with Microsoft for god I don't know how long forever then for a I am super happy to have update 3 and wait for the grand plan but I think the theme of today's mobile show is pessimism and hate and sadness and so I know I did have of just just this feature is the book what's your butt well the butt is the thing that you guys mentioned this is in preparation for not kicking out the big ass Windows Phone nobody else is working a big ass windows phone does anybody else really even working on a windows phone I mean how Samsung and HTC won't even comment on on the fact that Microsoft is buying Nokia and it's like I mean why bother at this point I mean I I know I was a ZTE or Huawei they release some sort of windows phones in China but and also thanks maybe series here's what what might my take is I think whatever that device is that we've been seeing floating around the 15 20 or whatever so it is 50 look yeah that's what all the rumors honey I've been saying I bet you that thing has a six inch display and is better implemented and more sexy than you HTC one max and that's what saddens me about the whole thing because you know that the u.s. is just not gonna live up to it well yeah I mean you mean you mean that the actual hardware design will be nice yeah yeah yeah yeah because like you know uh unless unless no key does something really crazy what we expect to see based on these uh update 3 is just like a bigger a bigger windows phone 8 with more tiles on the screen so it's like yeah from what I from what I think I think we're going to see something like the 625 I stretched bigger basically and while I said that's pretty generic design is actually pretty attractive design my opinion I mean it's that's the one that matches your glasses right do you really think that that Metro works at that size I mean it works on a tablet size and then they added more tiles like inside the apps like the actual app experience of the big type and everything they've made a lot of changes in a bunch of little apps to do that but I've I'm you know there's a lot of corners that they've got a hit a lot of eyes they've got a dot and T's they got across to make it so it doesn't feel expansive weird well considering how slow it's been for the apps to it to adapt new adopt new features and Windows Phone like the Twitter and Facebook apps are barely good enough now and for a while we're terrible act than the native the default clients right so I don't have high hopes about these apps looking anything like more than just scaled versions really at that point at this point on these big phones you know so it's I don't know why I think that's definitely something you bring up a good point which is the you bring you brought it up earlier with the HTC One max which is like you know HTC didn't do anything to optimize for that screen size and with their software and I don't really think windows is going to do anything except for maybe the home screen you know the TAS right we know they're gonna do some stuff in inside apps so like in that and the Xbox music app they can fit more stuff in there and like in other apps are good but that's their own apps what about third party apps that's that's the big question like you know the popular third-party apps well that that maybe gets to the fact that they're they're giving developers early access to well Matt early access but like on time access to the updates so they don't have to wait for carriers to roll roll it out which is nice and it's kind of like a backdoor for any power user not just developers because it's it's free you can go sign up for it and then just download it to your phone voids the warranty but hey you know I I know that if I were using Windows Phone I'd be doing it Yolo yeah Chris you really need that rotation lock and individual ringtones well but but I mean come on it's not just about this update though right like presumably this is something they're gonna be doing going forward and they mentioned that I know if there's every reason to believe that like in the future they might be doing like beta is not just like final version yeah right it's a good present and Google do this as well when google announces a new android version it releases the source code like almost immediately and people can load it on their phone whether their photo they can't come nerds can no I do this I'm gonna work Microsoft like this is a bigger deal than apple's beta program because cheaper and and like that's cool and it's a bigger deal of what android does with source code because like you can't can't you got to wait for somebody to build a rom for you unless you're a super nerd um yeah it's like a curry our absolute somebody both robin like three hours yeah and it's buggy and terrible because you have no idea if it's actually a work on your phone and you need to be rooted and blah blah blah like this I don't think it's going to be a massive revolution and carriers pushing stuff out but I do think that a lot of regular people are going to find a way to like oh if I could just do this thing and get update I'm going to do it think you think of how long plate think of how long 920 users had to wait for GD dr to write like this yeah got 18 listed on ATT I'm talking about yeah biggest show with OS updates for Microsoft is just like people complain about waiting for them right right one of the that's one of the problems they like the people that are most likely to complain while waiting for a nose OS update are the people are most likely to install this thing early and so like all of a sudden like in one fell swoop Microsoft may have like stopped most of the complaining about waiting for carriers to approve their OS updates and yea big when even if even if it's a tiny percentage of their user base right I think Chris is just trying to say that he's secretly a major windows phone user look I I want to come on Chris pull out the 1020 that's in your pocket I've got one right here well you know nokia i was so sad no key maybe said send back the 1020 i had me made you send it back yeah they were insistent that I return there in Chicago they sent somebody to his house knocked out as a hchildress noogler you can just be like Shah look I well it was it was actually really cool because they did a special 1020 launched at the ATT flagship store in Chicago and some nokia folks were out there and i just went down there and picked one up and then a couple weeks later they were like hey we need our tent or ii back um but uh all kidding aside and I've said this on many many occasions I would absolutely be I've tried on multiple occasions to be a serious windows phone user and I would be a serious windows phone user uh if it if it were you know if they would just closed a few like huge gaps the biggest gap being on email and I don't know a lot of this stuff isn't really their fault because they have these spats with Google that are ongoing and I'm so heavily invested in the Google ecosystem both personally and you know with our work stuff so it's very difficult for someone in my position to take Windows Phone seriously it's just it's hard to do yeah for someone in any position yeah yeah I mean yeah if you're if you're in exchange if you live in exchange and you love outlook you know windows phone is obviously the best option for you for email and calendar and contacts and stuff like that the problem is that the average consumer doesn't live in exchange maybe their employer uses the iphone does a pretty decent job with exchange it doesn't job but I think you can do more with windows home yeah okay um I was just going to point out very briefly I think because I've got the red button here broadcast have a hangout is whatever I'm seeing on my side yeah so just make sure that you don't click on faces because then it gets stuck in those faces because because my face did dominate the first minute and a half whatever it was that's it anyhow you wanted to add you go yes that is some wise in those tiny little boxes under my face but yeah I think the connections come back and improve but for a little while they're at least of my computer there was a hilarious lag between the video and what you guys are saying so because you live in the UK were 3gs about like pop point five megabits as a last show that we did but the last show that we did Vlad's power went out or something so he went out to the street and used his phone and was on the show from the from his phone it was crazy how it was gigantic c-note free credit where credit's t-that was and then I I was worried that he was gonna get mugged and then he pointed out that he was the most dangerous person on the street so we're he was fine about that technically I was also the only person in the street so yes that was that was accurate so speaking of disappointingly minor wait can I interrupt your transition meeting here I just wanna I just wanted to turn out like I could have like finished that transition like that but I drug it out because I knew that somebody would want to interrupt me so you're welcome a planted interruption opportunity I say yeah yeah speaking of disappointing OS updates KitKat looks completely boring to me so in the leaks I am I do I just need more hope in my life Nemo hope you just well I did look I still think and I mentioned this on a recent show if i remember correctly i still think that the that the the ux that was introduced in ICS looks and feels modern and fresh like really what's happened is Google Apple and Microsoft are all on the same page regarding stuff being completely 2d and flat and shadow free and so we're in this sort of state of you know I don't want called stasis but like where everybody is on the exact same page regarding how apps should look and feel and and so I think for that reason I that that design language doesn't feel stale yet and so I'm okay with the design being the same but there are some basic features that Android is lagging on at this point most notably in my opinion ble which is becoming increasingly important and Miriam I know that's near and dear to your heart being a pebble yeah it's been spinning a challenge for us that you know there's no standardization yet in android obviously the sooner the better right for everyone yeah but so so ble is rumored for KitKat or am I crazy wait you like it well I think it is soo came in android 4.4 point 3 ah specific devices only so device specific thing it's not an OS specific thing as far as I know man yeah just just to say ble meez bluetooth low energy which is the real stuff is the stuff that you would write it is the good stuff yes um so okay I mean we're gonna see like a new dialer a brand new dialer we're gonna see there's going to be some new weight of handling default SMS app which means we're gonna have SMS integrated into hangouts but then you can change it out easily I guess I'm sure that then hopefully more google voice integration will come along with that i guess maybe snapshot integration we're gonna see Miss bidding I think isn't google now gonna be like like the leftmost homescreen didn't i see some rumors about that the new home screen experience a google experience sadly so terrible no well so here's the deal it's like getting to getting to google now from like a non nexus phone is oh my god oh my god my motorola x is listening to me right now because it heard me say google now that's they'll teach you for using a moto x theater seriously what is wrong with you anyway where was I going Oh still it's a pain to get at it from an odd sis phone but if you just can swipe over from the home screen that maybe we'll make more people yeah but again once they start skinning right one samsung and HTC and LG start skinning or more like you're not going to get that right I'm betting that the Google Experience launcher is going to be available in Google Play that would be ah that would be a pretty damn awesome that way this was somebody picked apart something somewhere and I apologize deeply to the Android site that was a leaking this stuff but that is I'm guessing that's the whole of kit but guys and I'm like I don't care you know this brings on a good point though is that to me it looks like Google's trying to make Android more and more modular I mean well Google Play services thing right it was a huge like such a great back door for them to upgrade stuff behind people's back in a great way so by passing the carriers and the manufacturers this is kind of cool like how they like made the keyboard available now they want to make the launcher available I'm all for it so if you got by the way news 10 that yeah you went out the first search result is for from this song is on my god oh my god which is what google now search for me it's not sounded go and I was going to say if you go to google.com / android and they've got that nice new website that goes through the history of all the versions of Android and you go all the way down to the bottom that 4.4 kitkat the the one line that it says about Kit Kat is that they want to bring Android to everyone or make it available for everyone or something silly insane like that right um which would perfectly line up with what we're saying here if you know the launcher becomes something that you can just download in the Play Store just like the count the calendar and the keyboard and all these others then you know everybody can no matter what phone they have get pretty much a uniform experience if they want it so that's cool and then and you know maybe they'll people will stop I don't that solves our upgrade problem completely I guess it solves it enough whoa I mean oh yeah is there an upgrade program anymore but i feel like the upgrade problem nowadays is our expectation and what we anticipate they will get from these things should just have one nice things no no no I think things are growing a little more incremental and a lot less noticeable nowadays a great example for me actually was the aforementioned HTC One I dug that out I hadn't turned it on since I think it was April whatever it was shame on you Vlad her i'm a terrible human being to all android devices but what i noticed it had yo gmail client before the update and and I was like whoa this looks wrong and I can't see all my labels properly they kind of constricted and then I updated it to the latest you go plan it was like ah this was right this was good you know and these changes you don't really notice them because it's like it's like a random Thursday and oh this GMO updater looks nicer okay I'm moving on with my life I'm getting on with it you kind of go from a the let's say great for gmail to grade 5 gmail but then you never go back to check how much of an upgrade you got you know and this was the experience with me and I noticed it and I feel like you know Gmail keeps evolving the giro up the maps app keeps evolving oh these things keep improving and Google isn't really holding things back for standalone events where it's going to like blow our minds with it I think perhaps iOS with the i/o I was seven big redesign is like the biggest milestone software changed on the scene but otherwise but we really need to kind of free Alana expectations for is sort of thing we're seeing we're going to spoil an Android these are maturing platforms which adding features as they go along and I think it kind of makes sense like if you have something done in February you're not going to wait until you're big you know keynote event in May to unleash it or to reveal it if you can actually push it out as an app update or whatever it is right all right I'm just asking too much and I listen the most exciting thing with KitKat for me is all might be the nexus 5 because i love the g2's display well it's not gonna be the same size of Vlad it's pretty much clear there's going to be a 5-inch instead of a 5.2 which is fighter she's ok but it might not be the same grade remember the Nexus has got to be affordable and I'm concerned perhaps you're going to cut some corners in terms of quality like last year the nexus for the camera wasn't as good as the the optimus G right so I'm excited about what I'm seeing but I'm concerned that we're gonna they're gonna cut corners in some way but why you're caught in the corners in the battery as far as we could tell ouch what white white does the Nexus have to be affordable why can't they do why can't they do a true flake ship like I I totally I mean done me wrong when the nexus 4 came out like the pricing blew everybody's minds and I think that it's sold very well because it or not very well buts so better than it would have had it been priced differently but very good for LG too yeah but you figure I mean this is google why can't they have multiple Nexus phones and multiply mean maybe what they're thinking is they want the nexus to lead on price and then they save the you know that the flagship experience for the GPE devices maybe yeah I mean I'm very excited about the nexus 5 I really can't wait to get one I think what I've seen from the camera specs the the mems-based autofocus the fact that supposedly as is which I thought they would throw out for cost reasons uh the g2i is one of my favorite cameras right now um it's not very consistent but when it does work well it's very good um and and you know I really can't wait I think even if it's a slightly scale down screen with a different camera I mean it hopefully they retain the essence what made the g2 great and hopefully that smaller battery is not a deal-breaker because on the nexus 4 it certainly is a pretty challenging to get a day out of that phone so we'll see right yeah it's very weird to me that motorola is still the only company that is taking a big battery phones seriously I mean of course there's the notary and there's no 31 mess but I the butterfly ass too it's really good a better life why you know I'm talking about like a four to five inch class device that has an unapologetically giant battery yeah that sacrifice is a little bit of thickness like I every company should have this option like I'm so tired of owning devices where I have genuine fear that i'm not going to be able to make it from you know 6 30 or seven a.m. to eight or nine pm honest thing in fact you can't make it that long at a single charge underneath us that I that I am so sorry I'm just venting I have no point no it's a very fair point it's in 41 what's your experience been with the g2 collectively so far uh so the battery life on the g2 when I read it was phenomenal it was for me to the best battery life I'd seen on an android phone this year and so when I reviewed it I obviously gave a very high scores for that and then when these Nexus 5 specs started leaking out and things like that and the battery is significantly smaller recording price charts that gave me a real pause for concern because you know like you mentioned the nexus 4 really didn't have great battery life it had actually in my experience a terrible battery life it would die in like six to eight hours for me yeah um and so with this not having the same size battery as the g2 I'm just concerned that the battery life is but my point was that you know Chris they like the g2 is an example of a phone that's thin and not doesn't have like a special option of a larger battery and you know delivers the goods in terms of both battery performance and like mm Jews is a 5.2 inch display like it's a big phone like there's I mean it's not like like if I could get a moto x with a 3,000 milliamp hour battery that's slightly thicker than the normal Moto X i would buy that over g2 at heart because i could use it in one hand yeah right right well to me it doesn't matter because the g2 is the same size than HTC One and to me that's fine or the gs4 for that matter that's kind of really i really like the the size of the Moto X actually is for you know ease of use i love my one I you know I own one I think the design is phenomenal it looks great and things like that but uh but it's a bit too big for you huh it's a bit too big yeah cool they just have me questioning actually with the existence of the Moto X Y google is too going along and having energy build the Nexus devices but I guess it goes to because he goes with LG's credit and to those guys you know technical acumen i think i think LG's reputation is long established reputation and the one that sounds like we're working to shake off is you know of being the random korean supplier of you know washing machines as such things try and sounded promise nowadays hey man don't they have the blast chiller or is that seems like the blast that that's all g I think the blast chiller you know the beer in like three minutes you're right flat except that remember there was that big dust-up between Google and there was there was a he said she said situation on the Nexus 4 um was like his februari or march of this year were like the two companies seem to be at each other's throats and so I was actually as soon as I saw that happen as like welp there goes LGDs changes that to ever make a Nexus device again but like I was like really surprised to see it go this way i do get that sense that there is a bit of tension between them yes yes but i mean just to bring it back to my thinking on this something is it's just that LG I don't know maybe in Europe it never had the same sort of down and dirty breaking bad reputation like every burner Breaking Bad is an OG phone it seems like actually they have samsung flip phones um and and so just it's like every time I see Walt talking on the phone it's that like it was just a really basic sampling flown that was like free on contract for three years in a row and there's a there's an iphone there's an iphone in a hello kitty case in the last season yeah well the thing that the 15 LG was popular in the US let is because verizon and LG were like best buddies in the investigating the shittiest spoons never they would make things like the envy and the voyager and at this time verizon didn't have the iphone and this was back in like 2006 to like 2009 when verizon was selling messaging phones hand over fist and LG made almost if not every single one of them and they were these qwerty devices and they sold like hotcakes and so that's where LG's cachet I guess in the u.s. came from and then when smartphones came around and verizon finally got the droid and finally got the iphone it kind of like was like alright that's cool see you later LG uh and LG's never really had the same level of popularity and sales with smartphones in the US as it did with its messaging dan the original LG prada come on bro could you buy that on the US carrier no no yes it was a LG view on AT&T it was cheap and and turned into the LG view but now movie but yeah but not the vu ii no not the optimist view not the not just the view remember guy and remember yes I never that yeah and it had media flow right that's right had media flow Qualcomm's TV thing with a retractable antenna was the shittiest thing you know I actually have one floating around because one time at Bernie man a couple of years back we were cleaning the cafe and i found this LG vue 18t like buried in the dust and i pulled it out and it still worked like i just had to find a charger for it which is pi by i bet the media flow didn't work the media floating word and the sink art of course the sim card had been deactivated but i was like oh my God look at that blast from the past but I was gonna say about LG you know the thing to keep in mind about LG is that they sell last I'd heard I think it was a year ago so might have changed since then but about a year ago they were selling more LG phones in Korea than samsung phones well like they're there like if you think LG is not isn't LG knows how to do phones like it's just that we just don't get wait until in the Nexus we didn't really get the good ones here you know yeah but in in China they're selling wares eet EEZ than you know I mean like I don't know and well Chris is really saying is that people outside of the USA don't have taste so they don't count Wow yeah I was trying to say in a more and more you know politically correct way but yes speaking of to the boat wait wait oh I got it no I lost it no I just had cut to the Bowman who could have used that as a pun is like cut to the deets a bone but anyway okay it's gone now it's good but you make a transition i've got a good role is it to the galaxy round and or the g flex no it was but thank you no that's ok there is a serious point to be made here which is that while we still sit in this kind of perception of samsung and LG as these followers and these guys who are trying to emulate the big dogs what we're actually finding and experiencing is that the new technical innovation is kind of emoji and Samson like honestly Samson in energy of the new leaders they are the guys who used to be Sony Panasonic back in there I don't think you can lose his mind quiet Chris needs to talk this is going to be amazing if Samsung made a pentagon shape phone would you say I mean they're they're leading they're they're out there innovating this is not wave Asia if you know Chris that is rejected I understand your argument I don't think like lay it out fully because everybody agrees with you that's fine but it's completely wrong it's just right because here's the thing the guy who won the Nobel Prize for science oh my god okay the hit Peter Higgs the guy who predicted some 50 years ago the the existence of the Higgs boson particle right when he commented on it he said it's a recognition and appreciation for blue sky research and you know Neil deGrasse Tyson as being extremely eloquent telling people let's do the research let's do some science ya know I know some new things that we can do or vomit can find our operations for them we're all about research for recert like pure research IKR science center k german by the way six month anniversary of verge science congratulations she just went to the Institute for Advanced Studies at Princeton and like hung out with people that were like doing pure research and it's amazing but to like connect that up to like Samsung making insane consumer products I don't know like that sounds like yeah you're giving away too much credit widows but but let's let's break it down a little bit I mean Samsung yes Samsung probably out getting too much credit because they're not really doing that much unique damaging to wake unique stuff they really take on the go sign up free kind of punched it into the middle and a there's a curve that way would but you know if you look at the LG G flex and it's cause you that's going into that that's curved more like a regular phone like a landline phone it's gonna be awesome in your pant pocket can't wait to put that in my pocket it's all right 6 inches it was going to be uncomfortable anyway if you can put it on your back pocket that would actually be pretty fly you know just wraps oh you put in your fly up so that's that fool is just that guys I just outside to remind you I have the red button today so and just to mention LG has already announced a curve battery I know but that thing go into G flex oh you don't say no no I'm not saying like yeah but like the renders that we see the thing is like it's like ridiculously curve yes it's like a banana it's ridiculous ring ring ring you're gonna sit on it and crack it in half the instant you do that no it's so well what I was saying oh I went on a mini twitter rant about this last night and i'll say this much i think this vol people right of all people i think the i think that these curved displays are very important stepping stone to flexible devices which i think we can all agree hold promise for a variety of interesting reasons for these devices specifically are not something you would ever want a regular consumer to buy and that's why Vlad I reject what you were saying about like you know this is like this awesome blue sky researcher has parallels to it because Samsung and LG are actually going to ask consumers to spend real money for these fake products so fake is the wrong word here's the but like bad idea products which everybody knows are bad idea products and the most concrete evidence of that is the fact that these two phones are curved different ways the canonization forests I mean I was right back if I if I had the ability I would go and find our commentary on the original Galaxy Note and what we thought of it and put it on exactly how because we would have been calling it ridiculous we did we're like nobody wants it came out wrong so like maybe Samsung's not totally crazy and LG's not totally crazy just throw a whole bunch of crap out there and if it doesn't sell whatever and if it does like surprise we you know like at for every ten Continuum's there's one note and maybe that ratio works for them but but eater you could say the same thing about the galaxy gear and we all know how well that turned out yeah but we don't know if it's sold but it's like legitimately a bad problem here here's the thing about the note with the note even though we may have thought it was a bad product you can make like you can very easily grok what the use cases for a big screen with it with the galaxy round I cannot tell you what the purpose is of a screen that's curved that way samsung will tell you or chris you could tilt it and then and then the screen will light up and tell you your notifications rot it what's what's their turn port round interaction which is like the best me for something that's even better than s or like a what is there I thing called smart stay right yeah yeah I like LG's widescreen better cuz let the dats why just wanna know is not gone well how the big war between LG and Samsung is going to get Chuck Norris for the commercial and do a make a roundhouse kick joke cuz that's gonna happen they might definitely are we gonna air Korea yeah yeah I would just like to point out here that piece of software that Samsung is trying to introduce it like revolutionary the fact that you can tilt it you don't actually need a curve display for that you should see the curve back yeah yeah you have an accelerant on your phone you have a coat back you do that you can do the exact same too so I mean I do with the motor works right here now is to support Chris's point the fact that these guys aren't really you know breaking any new ground fine fine but to me is still the case that these guys are introducing variety in the hardware variety we haven't seen elsewhere and and I totally agree with data and I think actually samsung as well as much as it tries to appear haphazard and completely without any clue or idea or strategy a road map it does seem to have a rhythm that where every single year it tries something that's kind of out there and just you know just hopes that it work so it was a Galaxy Note one year then II for the next year was the galaxy camera and then it was a galaxy gear I don't think the galaxy camera gear have been anywhere near as good as the note but again that was one of those devices I reviewed it and I said it's a terrible idea but it's just done extremely well you know the same could be true I actually have I might be the guy who has the most anticipation for this G flex I really want to see this crazy freaking oh I hope looks like floppy I can go like you know get hit one of those about 20 you know ok I'm on a bloody phone well no kids need to have the guts to bring that phone out because it exists so I've played with the prototype yeah yeah yeah me too it at were more Congress a couple of years ago right yeah I remember that yeah yeah the twist one yeah yeah yeah no it's just a matter of time and it's probably gonna be Samsung or LG that does it but my question is is Samsung going to rip off LG and and take its axis and then make a bowl shape phone or is LG going to do it because someone is going to make a phone shape like a bowl it's just a question for one way dude what it is a bamboo back HTC a bamboo pad that would just become like a whole thing unto itself you'd be like a design piece at a phone at the same time it doubles as a holder for your soy sauce if you're getting sushi I want the screen on the convex sushi like I want I want just the screen to be like this yeah Oh bulging out at you like fish eye lens I mean you could do that if you just make your battery overheat well I guess I me scream what I want them you know what I want I want to take it one step further than dieter I want the screen to bulge out at you and be circular like the or I was oh yeah why not just haha way around your wrist yes like a watch yeah watch matter time that's gonna happen it's just a question of when who was an MIT or somebody already demonstrated a flexible full-color OLED now wasn't my dyslexic batteries too you know hey foo foo color obed Sam second OG have had those for ages flexi is but they cost a fortune and yeah yeah flexible batteries flexible circuit boards and flexible chips and flexible cameras you know you focus by flexing the phone that's the crazy yeah didn't didn't nokia demonstrate that or somebody did uh oh yeah you're right that was nope yeah now we're the point is that these flexible ideas have been around for so long that we can't even remember who came up with them in the beginning because yeah we've been hearing about flexible displays and flexible phones for years which we get really i read that i read the headlines about the galaxy around before actually looked at a picture of it I'm like and I imagined a phone that looks like the g flex and then when I saw how it was actually curved as like you've got be kidding me why is it shaped like this that would actually fit in your pocket better than the g flex in your front pocket yeah but then it but there's no point in being curved why is it curved that way Goodwood Cup but we'll just wrap you you're like I know I wonder if it's easier to use in your hand because you can reach like like the curve of the screen brings the surface closer to your thumb but you know what isn't shaped like that are like hiding like you can't see you know what isn't shaped like that is your face and and and also yeah not shaped like that is you're like well no never mind no I'm here beautiful shape to stick in a bag of Cheetos and uses a funnel to just exactly like so i'm waiting for the first person to that samsung phone as a container for their yo soy sauce you know yeah yeah we did we did put sushi on the uh what was the verizon version of the 4.43 aspect ratio LG and no no that's right the intuition was it called yeah yeah we put sushi on that for our photos for our views yeah logical next step would be to put a bowl of I am still in super though I'm so bothered by just how offended in distress chris has v by this curve folks I'm deeply affected by it because because frankly okay you could have you know defensible thinkers like myself who unjustified and completely rational fair enough but you you from your perspective Chris you don't really lose out much because if you don't want the curve you just get the guys look free which is issue the same phone as the galaxy round just like why does its very existence target use hot strings it's like Samsung has wronged my family that's right it's like it's like somebody as Samsung was like I think we should make a curve phone just to see ziegler loses freaking mind on their freaking Twitter's yep and and it went down I mean late they mission accomplished my heads off this is huh what a crazy SIA what if I what what if they made a cyan galaxy brown uh that would be that would be bad for your wallet yes that would be bad because yeah I probably would buy it I don't it for somewhere between two and three days and then I um I'd either ebay it or put out a staff wide verge email saying who wants to buy and I cyan loss yeah damn ass applause you could always take it to the night like in the backyard and shoot it or something it's true stir make youtube video I could boss is the is the galaxy s4 active bulletproof because it's supposed yeah no I forgot about that phone I just reminding me Chris I think AT&T is pushing like it was pretty good actually yeah it's like people like that phone and I think that I remember there was a period of time where 18t wasn't pushing the s4 at all they were just talking about the active yeah and then they got into trouble because the phone wasn't actually water resistant but i think that issue is fixed now oh no I threw it in a pool and it still worked after that oh yeah nice I don't really want to talk about blackberry sad letter other than to say it exists and they let you meet blackberries advertisement no one of fringe makers you know what I'm bummed about the most is that I wanted them to do a q30 oh god was i enlarged like with large cheese and our large keyboards and and and and then you know Brad was really good because on my last podcast on the engadget mobile podcast he said and he would come with a stylus called the q-tip Oh God and I have to give him credit for that because that was very funny so imagine a q30 can you imagine that that would be painful no it'd be awesome like it so if they just literally took the q10 and blew it up like it they're just like they did was eat n in the z30 yeah yeah that the keyboard would be big enough so you could like touch type on it be great yeah like you know it's like pulling out an HTC one max but with a half of it being qwerty keyboard yeah I'm down I either anteater is so offended by your talking about like naturally left look oh my god they have you possibly search the great styli of the mobile world by suggesting one that blackberry have one and two that he called the credit is due oh it's fantastic fragile early if literally all black we have to do he and I are gonna have to get pistols at dawn you totally need to have styli at dawn and it should be resistive not capacitive right oh yeah yeah and speaking of which by the way have you guys seen the quote unquote stylus that they ship with the HTC One max no is it a cat glad you can put it in the review no good everything is in the books is optional no but it still exists positive stylist right listen listen first of all it is garbage nondescript irrelevant putting people to sleep etc but what do you think about the stylist it's not called the cute it should be ok but I was discouraged probably called the boom tip oh man the ultra boom tip all right i mean does ship i don't know if they still do this but at one time they were shipping capacity of style I what their big screen phones they were with the view of the headless ring you and they are the w3 has a stylist silo that's the proposal you woulda stylo in it yeah good but it's not about it's like proper style is now with the new view right right remember so dude it's we come welcome on the topic though let me let me do a couple of series disclosures here first of all experienced at ultra because the big six point four inch tablet thingy sony has you can use a regular pencil as you started so you can use a pad whatever anything days pointy and can do to you can use your status that's very cool yeah it's a serious consumer buys don't care about that anymore because sony has given up on the US so yes yeah completely but apart from the fact that is just that set in 20 20 us but that's kind of irrelevant it's only like today's news and but continue with the hard consumer advice i have also found out i've tested this it works you can use the AC one as status on the one max is serious it is absolutely brutally stupid and hilarious but i think is just as ridiculous as the one max itself and it's just such a fitting thing to do on that lovely note nice bookend start with the max and with the max that is full virgin mobile show you can and leave a comment on this post if you want to to talk to us you can also talk to us on Twitter I am back lon dan is DC seifert with an e I chris is Zed power Vlad is latts out of Maryam is t NK what t NK g RL yeah tango with other well that's how you remember it nice we are all at verge and we will all be back but maybe that next week cuz you know Abu daddy yeah these right also i gotta be way of not and I gonna have a good load yeah it's gonna be ward that's all I know all right now pushing a button guys to see what happens bye