Gadgetory

anyone would actually love the site and ce4 lives welcome that was amazing welcome to the verge of oval show where we talk about mobile technology mobile industry and the colors of smartphones this is episode 25 for the week of number 12 and I am dieter bohn I'm going to add some oh my god but in sync with Dempsey foot yeah we're a little bit of a train wreck yeah I've disrupted everything I'm very good I'm gone you're yeah you were having some awesome pixilation on your video but that's ok oh I'm just looking at it now it's kind of going up and down it's like I'm the anonymous member for the podcast yeah I can't read your lower third right now but we know who you are where you are yeah I'm getting on my's for his own safety yeah I'm the representative internet troll in today's podcast taking the place of chrissy cloud usually nominated trope yeah there's an absentee today in protest so the the most important mobile news of the week is that in Skyfall James Bond thankfully only used his Sony Xperia T L phone for like four seconds great yeah spoiler alert I mean come on heaven I haven't seen it what oh we all know man there's so much I want to talk about with this movie i purposely did not read your your forum post on it because yeah there is a very long rant that i posted in the forums about about the movie and i recommend you go read it yeah i think it stinks period TX 20 30 TX is that what it is i got that wrong the guys have the t.o in the united states it sanity oh sh t and t model right so there's three different names which are almost identical for phone that is pretty much identical yeah differences eva is terrible i don't want to talk about it it's identically identically the disappointing so yeah but that does a big way to put it um but actually on the topic of the biggest news i was looking at topics list and i was taking you were trolling me hard on me with this like I just thought you know I put it together in an order that made a little bit of sense but it's that I'm not like making a huge judgment call here we can start wherever you want let you want to start talking about BBM we can start talking about BBM oh yeah dude revolution if well it actually is kind of a thing I mean I feel like I should not be the one ranting about this because I feel like a dieter you should rant about this but but what the heck man blackberry messenger this it's for blackberry 7 yeah they have 20 so if you don't know what we're talking about is room is announced that there is a new version of blackberry messenger that will offer free voice calls over Wi-Fi doesn't look like there needs to be any carry involved with this over Wi-Fi and you know it's it's an interesting and useful feature and they're making it available on blackberry 7 devices earlier devices not so much and they haven't said anything I don't think about blackberry 10 I mean if it's not on there that's ridiculous and yeah I mean that's kind of cool um yeah so maybe I shouldn't share this but I'm going to we were like okay well we should test this thing out as a blackberry that we can we need at least two people with blackberrys on the verge staff you know active BBM accounts and like you know active data to to test this and it was like crickets I've heard apparently the the minimum of two people was to more than we actually have to get better the other thing is rim announced that they're going to launch blackberry they're gonna have a launch event for blackberry 10 on january thirtieth and presumably they'll be actually be releasing it in different areas the world shortly thereafter although they won't say what I just hope it's not another one of these we're launching and it doesn't mean anything kind of events like we've seen with Windows Phone so often well I pretty much is guaranteed to be I will see I I don't know I'm just one it's the one thing I don't expect to see is january thirtieth comes to sing hines take the stage and he's like he is a blackberry 10 device or touch he is a blackberry 10 device physical keyboard he will show both of them that's fine yeah he's not going to say pre-order today shipping next week he's not going to do the apple way of launching a product which is the thing you should be doing yeah but anyway seriously now that I've counted over well myself you want to think I pro my salary by Corus gdm around a because the thing that I was saying isn't the biggest news story which a lot of people might consider it to be too busy stories apple and HTC said something that painted disputes but I am sick and tired of all this legal stuff will come to it I mean it's significant it's important but it's not the most fascinating news it's not the thing that everybody's been talking about thing everybody has been talking about is a nexus core going on sale yes and what unless that is oh my what a mess that was I mean I I wasn't all that fascinated by it I wasn't one of those guys who's chomping at the bit to buy one but it was such a fascinating experience for me to witness the guys who were specifically one of them is on today's podcast ah mr. Siefert and yeah so let me let me tell you about my my position with the nexus 4 so i was really eager to see it go on sale and i was thinking maybe i'll buy one maybe i won't but I hadn't really committed to it uh and then you know when at noon yesterday when it went on sale in the US and the whole play store went down I was actually tied up an event so I had like no way that I could really realistically try to purchase this thing uh and of course the store goes down and people aren't able to purchase and supposedly it sells out so quickly so you know I'm back in our office a couple hours later and people in our office are saying well we're just able to refresh the store page like 40 times in a row and suddenly I'm able to buy it so I see two of our other staffers buy them successfully and then I pretty much made it a rule that if I'm able to make it show up in the Play Store I pretty much have to buy it so so I refresh a Play Store like 50 60 times in a row until i got the add to cart button and i quickly added to cart and submitted my verges and now I'm you know four hundred dollars poorer so basically better strategy we you know I was I was all set to go on a rant about how ridiculous is it that Google can't just get a simple play store up and running that says out of stock you know order and we'll let you know when stock comes in like you that's like you know that's insane that you they just don't let you buy it if ya you just you just said there a refresh it but maybe they're secretly geniuses and they're just they you wouldn't have bought it if it was just there but since you know it's like gambling you just got to keep trying it's like exactly why he's not totally worked for me because if it was just like I signed on it's like oh there it is it's for sale should i buy it uh maybe i wouldn't buy it but because it was like you know you got to get this oh yeah i won congratulations you just lost four hundred dollars yeah yeah but this this was the fascinating aspect to me because it was kind of a psychological behavioral experiment it's like we've got this thing we've got it priced at a level where people are really gonna be eager to buy it anyway and i will just introduce scarcity into the equation like no severe and random scarcity does the other thing exactly as dan says it's a jackpot it's like yes I got into this and now i pressured I mean I don't know it's like a really well-executed strategy that you might get from an estate agent like dude we got people coming in next so either you pony up all your money right now or it's God you have to deal with it no she's interesting but also I mean thing to say is then we'll say Play Store was crashing and coming down lunchtime in the US fresa was up and down all over the world since the middle of the night since australia and the jokes on Twitter were like it's called a nexus 4 because they made four units per continent stuff like that obviously there was there were limited quantities fewer than well i guess google and LG just underestimated how much the man there will be for this phone i don't know what whatever he actually like server issues preventing people just getting the waters brew or was it there was a bunch of weirdness I think people especially in the UK I heard that like people would have it in their cart and then they go to like check out and it would disappear from their cart so there was definitely some some odd things happening there you know aside from the whole you know hammering the Refresh thing that we had going on over here and I'm just going to recite one more joke that I picked up on to it i'm a complete plagiarist today but somebody will say you know this would be totally embarrassing if google actually ran cloud services so i think i saw that yeah it's a shame it's not a giant company that runs massive cloud internet services right because then we'll be totally embarrassing what's happening right now is a bit of a shambles but you know the nexus 4 is out now the nexus 10 is out now well you know actually I know what it is they they're running their Google Play servers to sell the device off of an HSPA network this penalty that must be it yes yeah and it's 4g man so uh to follow up yesterday's insanity with the online orders today i hear the u.s. t-mobile stores in select locations and small quantities started selling the device its store and how do we know that dad well we know this well a because t-mobile said it would happen but we know that is a for a fact that they were there because a certain mr. chris ziegler who decided not to be on the show today went over to a store and laid down some serious cash for a nexus 4 despite the fact that he's hated on it pretty much ever since it's been announced I mean he's going to break my kneecaps if if I brought this up during the show so i'll prepare to prepare to be in a cast next week I mean hold strong say the psychology of what Dan did makes perfect sense to me the psychology about Christy no idea I I kind of listen to explain that was the nexus 4 in cyan is that what the the story was you know III knew this was gonna happen with Chris because the exact same thing happened with the iphone 5 right yeah he literally was like not gonna buy one and then at 4 45 in the afternoon the day it was leaves like guys I'm gonna walk over to the ATT store and he walked over to the ATT store and ballwin and came back so and then he bought a shot at least bit and then he bought a Lumia 920's yeah I'm he's using a Wimpy about 20 now that he just bought okay can I just digress on the iphone 5 for a minute like a quick minute sure thank you i don't think we're really gonna stop you so yeah I mean thank you for me should I appreciate it I just want to say a bit i've been using the iphone 5 for about a week not because i actually prefer it or want to i'm being forced to four completely professional reasons you understand but i'm on border i like this phone and the other thing is I haven't you used iOS user on the air power for a while but I haven't used it on the phone for a while and is so kind of cozy and comforting to know that every single thing in my life as a nap and I'm talking mysupermarket isn't that yeah a supermarkets loyalty scheme has a nap easyjet has a nap that's kind of okay British Airways as a nap it kind of sucks but it's like every single thing that I can think of dictionary.com has an app and they're not all great dinner or perfect but the is a broccoli happen again yeah what about the ID i got i gotta tell you the deficit of like raw vegetable search engines I I gotta know Vlad is there like a social network app that will you share your raw carrots with other fans of raw carrots now do you see my relationship with carrots I think it's being way over that's called Grindr carrot Graham seriously cameras have quite a bit of sugar in them so some I'm controlling my intake of care okay I I just want another record that add is control he's a dick of carrots because have to now or because of the taste because there's a little too much sugar in carrots yeah yeah I mean I have to like like for example yesterday I pomegranate that's really sugary but it's amazing so it's like my sugar intake and this digression really is not comfortable so you just move right along what I'm saying is with the iphone like the distinction to me is a qualitative one where Android has really fully fleshed-out ecosystem and it feels robust right you get a pretty much everything you need but with Apple there's this extra step with iOS where you just know it's going to happen and the other thing is skype just this week got updated to support the iphone 5 and what kind of like whoa it's about time you know and i have a five just came out and yeah and it's like this is the pace at which change gets or rather developers work to adapt to change in the apple ecosystem you just so wrap it so it's like iphone five comes out it's a new size new resolution but you know that within a month or two everybody just knows how important that app is to them and they update they do they do that and they're just really comforting and reassuring thing for consumers and and this is part of the reason why we keep harping on about this ecosystem action with Windows Phone you know I I'm starting to hate the word ecosystem now because it's started to lose its meaning but this is this is what it means to be and I wanted to share that with you guys and now we can talk about the droid DNA droid DNA oh yeah let's I mean we could talk about Windows now let's how about the droid DNA so lucian uh join DNA dan you held it in oh my god gagan an actual picture on there like an image instead of a sense for because since I think say to me said I would you're pretty mellow stories never what I want that uh I don't know why I don't even oh forget the thing in the camera why are you looking down I'm trying I'm trying to let me do one of these uh it's like I've never used one before yeah it's like all I have are screenshots on here so it's actually pretty lame um but let's do what you're listening to the audio version of the podcast so nothing yeah here's yes here's the droid DNA um it's really thin for for what its eyes but obviously the the star the show is the 5-inch 1080p display and it's it's like 440 PPI um I don't know if this will actually focus that close but you really buy you can't see the pixels there's just there's no pixels and the viewing angles are insane it's super awesome a tree it looks like the image is literally like floating on the surface there baby daddies nice I mean uh we've been we've been raving all year about the 1x display and it's super lcd2 with 720p and how it's the best mobile display that we've ever seen and even though newer stuff has come out like the iphone 5 and the galaxy s3 the 1x is still the best but this is better so so there's you know there's that the other thing is you know it's 5 inches it's pretty big as you can see but it's not as big as you might expect from a 5-inch phone I compared it side-by-side with a 1x yesterday and it's a little bit taller than the 1x but it's it's about the same with really yeah it's about the same because it's it's I don't know it's just so tall and narrow that seems were married in the battery is 2020 million power so it's actually kind of small well it's it's a it's insane to say that a 2000 milliamp hour battery small these days but uh it that's the fact it's yeah put a screen size in the high resolution yeah i've got i got to do some more tests on it um but I'm battery is my concern it's super thin though you can see it's got like these tapered edges to make it is also mentioned and this this is i think is a big credit for it for HTC is that they built the wireless charging right into the phone while it's that thin yeah yes yeah it's on you because you can't access the battery of course the battery door does not come also you can't access that so it is nice but i will i'm gonna hate on this right now if you see this the bottom is where the micro USB port is and look what i have to do to access it because it's a door I can't recall all the last phone I tested the head abdur on the battery that's like really terrible and so it's actually really hard to get out and it's really hard to put back in as far as inconvenience so both that's why you have one is charging what is sinking right yeah I guess that's that's what they're trying to push the other thing that I'm super annoyed about is the play student of the power button which is at the top in the middle which is like the worst place to put on a five inch device well we discussed this last week you just need to bang it out you know on your forehead oh you can the other thing that's really cool I'm like totally giving away all of the stuff that's going to be my review in a couple days but if you see this flashing it's got a notification light on the back of the phone all that is awesome so if there is one on the front you can see flash there yes and then on the back right there like like that's that's one of the coolest things I've seen so that's amazing yeah I mean I schedule how would you characterize the the build quality mean I've got a no to back here and I still feel like it's typical Samsung like it's good and fine but it has that vague feeling of being plasticky well this this doesn't feel too plasticky it's all soft touch on the back the back is really slate and flat but it's all soft touch materials it's got this kind of funky I don't know if you can see it there grille on the side yeah um that's on both sides and you know it's it's pretty typical HTC build quality it's not a unibody though like the 1x so it's it's not a doesn't feel like a unibody but okay I mean it's all it's actually really light to its 138 grams which for a thought of this size is lighter than I would expect like I've got night and then yeah dude you beat me to it it's like so so for those of you who don't know the 920 is really heavy but I'm sure if you're listening to this you do you know that but around the verge we've begun to call that the tank so we just refer to like you know I'm checking out the tank where I'm holding the tank or using the tank today's is to repair the Lumia 820 isn't that much lighter i think it's 160 grams a problem there are really nice hefty phones and this is why i'm saying credit to HTC because they're building wireless charging right into this device which is right then the windows phone 8x which again is very thin and even small it's a 4.3 inch boat so you know nokia is excused that we've packed the most advanced yada yada into this phone therefore we made it the size and weight of a tank is a bit flaky when you compare it to what HTC is a cheap I can't but there's an infographic that's floating around about the weight of the 920 and I can't find it but the you know they quote me they quote you know it's a tank and they quote like where'd somebody else and then they have like are you just being a baby here's why it's okay and then I think the first like comparison is an iphone 5 and like two slices of Bologna and like that equals the way yeah its fucka yeah there's two slices of turkey the iphone 5 look at me very thick slices of turkey if you ask me yeah odd guy that's what I said but um so let's see is running a tegra processor right no no this is a Qualcomm Snapdragon s4 pro so same problem so I owe any more of the okay we're just talking about specs we know the specs yeah I mean that I'll just say what this best pic is very nice and sexy and attractive to me because we all know the Snapdragon s4 is eminently more efficient than the Tegra option it does all we don't have you we think Thea no we know with Felicity s4 pro it's a quad core yeah I know but at the same time it doesn't come with a gimmicky companion call it actually can crank itself down it doesn't have a little buddy coming along for the ride well Jay on their Optimus G put like an eco mode thing and I got an email asking me that you know talk about how you can motor flex battery life and I don't know on that much like they've got a whole bunch of widgets for messing around with the processor which made me worried that maybe it wouldn't be that battery friendly but I don't have the that's what she's on me anymore but in my time with him you know I found the process would be super fast and didn't seem like it was problematic on battery life no that's this thing has got a huge screen so who know it's a screen and it's the high resolution it's pushing around a lot bigger as more pixels we know that like with when the ipad 3 wasn't revealed and i had a really high retscreen an apple added like almost double the battery over the ipad 2 to get the same battery life so you know that could make a difference i obviously am NOT gonna don't know just yet because i still got to run a few tests on it but uh right that'd make it i can bring it back to the optimus G that's great point of data raises i also have zero idea what that eco mode does on that phone but i enabled it and it actually had endurance which was like it was significant enough for me to notice that that is longer than most folks in that size class anyone with that battery and I was like why is this happening what's so special about it and now that you mentioned the Eco mode and the quad core is for that makes perfect sense fee which all you know actually makes droid DNA re you know compelling option for a whole heap of people apart from the whole sense situation and let me quickly mention the price in the u.s. of 1929 and should be launching this time by promoters are aware that we should be launching this time next week ago in 21st it's kind of amazing it's really impressive all of us thought it would be like higher than that daily I would have expected it yeah for the first 1080p phone in the u.s. to be priced at 199 is pretty significant if we go back a year HTC was the first company in the u.s. to bring a 720p phone with there is a news out yeah and that was priced at 299 so um yeah I mean it's it's offering a lot of a lot of specs for the price that's definitely for sure and we're just all accepted that phones can be this big and that's okay like we're not complaining about phablets we're not complaining about all god this great is so big I hate this is why why are they forcing these huge phones on us we just sort of yeah that's how big phones are now that's how it goes oh then we then people are just going to be like am i watching a rerun of hello episode 24 Oh episode 27 we're echoing ourselves like you register your complaint once we already know when you register you to break nobody listens and then you carry on hey dude where we know I have HTC in our audience right so I'm sure I'm sure there's slaving away on that on that 4.1 inch super phone plus 1 Jesus with a 720p screen or whatever it is 300dpi for whatever resolution that is yeah seriously pixel densities in that important anymore like I still want to see an experienced at 1080p phone naturally obviously but you know once you get past like 340 DPI you know the 720p resolution of 4.3 inch screen then it just get silly like yeah I mean you didn't need to say that you can't see the pixels on this fig that I know it's basically like bits of paper yeah and I mean because it's a super LCD like you could see the viewing angles are really great too so yeah well looking forward to revisa yeah and then you said no my way cuz we're where it won't work doesn't matter no you away I used to be a phone what what is this outdated idea of using a phone as an actual like if I needed that I'll get BBM with those awesome voice calls and then I would like plug it into the nexus 7 with 3g data ah oh yes actually we review the nexus of it with 3g data no just this week we don't normally talk about tablets here but i ordered the ipad mini with LTE should be arriving on friday are you seriously doing what you're doing right now data this is really compelling audio woody of your oh yeah oh yeah it's really here come jumping up and down but I'm not excited about going back from right now but I mean whatever I'm excited to have a tablet with LTE in it because the night my nexus 7 doesn't like I definitely agree with you there neither like I i like my nexus 7 at home but it rarely leaves the house with me just because it's a pain to get connected so sweet i but jelly bean it's it's rolled out to their words like the downloads you could get and i'm pretty sure they're rolling out OTA slowly to some devices Galaxy Nexus Nexus 7 I got my oga today actually I did you get your okay for my next scheduled asians Nexus S and moto zoom not getting it so this is kind of insane uh if you ask me because both of those devices are on 4.1 actually four point one to point two now yeah and and I I don't know the reason why they wouldn't be updated to 4.2 yeah I don't either it's actually kind of aggravating um maybe you know I don't know like maybe those lock screen widgets just take up so much resources well if it's like if it's a space issue maybe but then you know lighten your osf google sure I'm some fat I don't know if it's I don't know if it's a space issue I mean the thing that that's funny is because when you go from four-point-oh to 4.1 I there's a much more of a jump i think than 4.1 2 4.2 there's there's much more of a performance increase there's a lot of under the hood stuff that happened so i could almost see some them saying this isn't getting four-point going from 4.0 4.1 but frankly 12 4.2 is a little bit more of a disappointment yeah yeah and you know I actually really like the new clock on the lock screen yeah it's just really clean and clear and readable not that the stock google lock screens have ever been particularly terrible but like the new one is really nice it's like in 4.8 and it will be available in no point five percent of android devices i'm sure we'll look at those android stats at the beginning of next month then you'll be like that this is this is a frustrating thing you know thing yeah and the recurring thing but if you have another phone and you want to get to a newer version of Android cyanogenmod 10 they've gone to a stable release so it's not technically 4.2 but you know they're working to integrate 4.2 stuff into cyanogenmod 10 this is what I'm running on my HTC One X on ET and I endorse cyanogenmod I think it's a really good and really awesome i'm really happy with it further there's some drama today like that it's the person when Santa broadcom is like not giving it back to them and was like being a jerk and so now they've moved over to saiyajin Matt cyanogenmod gorg instead yet again probably there's a little dodo main fight there someone got a little bit tiffy better I'm just I'm I'm pretty happy with the cm10 on the what exit this is the reason I'm not buying a nexus 4 is I can get you know I can keep my LTE and have something relatively close to the stock experience I like what cyanogenmod does on top of Android 4.1 instead of just offering a straight stock AOSP rom and you know there's still some bugs so you know whatever they're still working on it but you know it's really awesome and I am NOT going to buy a nexus 4 not kind of did it one bit perdon Vlad why do you no interest in the nexus 4 if I might ask because because the LTE thing I think is much less of an issue for you in the UK than it is for us here the u.s. I just want to say with respect to what teacher is talking right now it's like I'm not gonna think about the big pink elephants I'm not gonna think about the giant pink elephant and then the only thing in his mind is like man does a pink elephant in my imagination yeah it's yeah so yeah DJ I'm sure you're not gonna buy nexus 4 i totally buy that i'll buy the nexus 4 bumper how about that how ridiculous is that they're selling a bumper dude I seriously I I don't think I've got enough credit I don't think enough people have written about my full sight when I was bitching about the glass back like as soon as the next four was announced I was first to jump on that bandwagon and save this girl's back strike trouble ok.let browser stemmons review that yeah and I mean that's just want to I mean the future is laden with cracked glass specs on Nexus fours and people cursing their luck and thinking this could have been some sort of you know high-end plastic and I would have been happy and probably just kind of cringe that LG's random patterns and stylings whatever but I mean okay let this also dance quite sure why I'm not so psyched about nexus 4 I think I also kind of addressed it when I was a enthusing about the windows phone 8x and I mean it's also kind of speaks to the fact that as mobile reviews we're not regular people that we're different worse a lot of ways i don't i don't know if i were you i think chris is the prototypical mobile phone buyer and chris is the perfect example then again not just something that I am because like the fact of the matter is you brought you run for all these android phones you get to use them for week two weeks a month whatever and you get kind of bored with them and then you move on etc whereas most people have to make these choices for months and months at an end i mean ii again if you chris ziegler he thought because he keep breaking by spring so thankful seems like he's like you feel it was a willing this beard and then you suck on your cone it's like that i don't even know what to say about it but ok this is this point is me android what what I'm really trying to say is I just grown bored of Android to some extent I've what a really grown bored of is non stock Android and basically sense is my nemesis at this point and it's the thing that drives me nuts because the droid DNA will be so much more a fascinating captivating device me if it was running 4.2 stock which again the nexus 4 runs but I've also had time with the optimus G which is essentially the nexus 4 and it is like am I going to be thrilled and excited about the optimus G with stock Android to some extent I mean obviously I prefer it but is is it's just some experience that I've had already and this is why I'm psyched to see Windows Phone develop and grow and do some more interesting things because that is a chance to look at something that's truly knew this is why I had a digression about the iphone 5 because of being away for iOS for a while which again marked me out as being particularly different since everybody's freaking user there and it's probably what I'm going to be you know fascinated by the new BlackBerry devices when they release in temporary 2014 you go person we're rooting for you um yeah no I see I see your argument Vlad and it's it's I you know I've been even teasing crest today but I kind of wish she was here to talk about his is using the Lumia 920 because he's called yesterday I quote he called himself a windows phone 8 convert because he's like you know perfectly happy with a with the Lumia 920 right now um but yeah I mean it's a different experience I guess and uh you know it's not the same old Android and iOS front of the middle type of thing that we've seen for a couple years now yeah but ok let's actually get to the topic that was on top of our topic list which is apple and HTC cuz that was not the week but the weekends absolutely biggest names yeah yeah I was all reading and like I was I meant to Sinofsky schnapps key is the biggest news ready yeah well in our in our mobile world apple and HTC are the biggest news yo so in art for the mobile show uh Appalachian so saturday today I'm at a wedding the reception for this wedding and my phone just starts blowing up because Apple HTC decide to announce that they've become reached a 10-year licensing agreement and settled all of their patent litigation around alone yeah around the world and like uh you know and they had to of course announce it at you know whatever it was our post went up at ten after nine so they must have announced it just around 9pm so it's uh um thanks thanks guys but it's a it's a pretty monumental thing it's one of the the first agreements that we've seen between Apple and an Android manufacturer and the fact that it's it's for so long it also means that HTC will be able to use some of apple's patented things in its its its devices those things that Samsung's not allowed to use like slide to unlock and bounce scrolling I'm not sure about scoring was covered by no slide to unlock was definitely a license to HTC so that makes for a very interesting competitive future between HTC and the other Android manufacturers yeah I think I think I spotted a report today from Samsung one of the Samsung higher up saying something doesn't intend to follow in HTC footsteps and agree a licensing deal without yes obviously that was based on a relatively aggressive translation yeah and so it's yeah that's that's what I had we had determined i think but but even if whether or not is like the most unsurprising thing ever yeah i mean they they wanted court because they wouldn't license yeah it was like oh it's like samsung we're just waiting for HTC to set the market and I was like yeah okay we'll go go ahead and go do you got that billion-dollar lawsuit whatever yeah that was just biding our time I'm just waiting for you guys to do it and that now we'll do a deal I mean obviously they won't but I think I think I think this is really significant because it does actually said so for the others again Samsung is growing into androids exception and if because of his size and because these were configuration of those things Samsung is kind of a unique company but you know LG is an in Samsung's position for example Sony certainly is any sense of transition and those companies are the ones that stand to be next in Apple's firing line I don't think that Apple is soon then yet but you know I'm sure even Apple has a limited number of lawyers so now that the freed up from HTC who's to say there won't be you know nudging and pokey those companies and that's what Microsoft it for a long time Microsoft was suing guys like HTC Motorola and demanding you know royalty payments for certain Microsoft patents and now Microsoft has a full freaking portfolio pretty much every Android manufacturers paying to royalty fees and you know the thing that people will be saying is you know android is free from as far as Google is concerned you get the source code from google but then you actually end up having to pay a whole bunch of licensing fees to microsoft and now to Apple yeah yeah I mean crazy I just this is how it should work right there'll be a little bit of fighting in the courts and then you just say you know what how about we spend our time not arguing about this and I mean HTC in particular like they actually had some of their devices held up like they couldn't sell what was it it was uh the evo ltd LT yeah yeah and so you know it's it's in there just get this behind them and I'm really happy now what will be really interesting glad you mentioned LG I think that if we see license deals that cover Nexus devices like the Galaxy Nexus or the nexus 4 that would be very interesting because that would sort of be you know stock Android is not cool with with apples patents yeah it implicates Android itself yes yeah rather than the skins yeah um I mean if you just because for example okay if LG decides okay we'll pay a licensing fee and that will cover the nexus 4 for example done that means LG thinks it's in danger of losing a court case let's say now we're releasing put those things but it doesn't necessarily prove that Android itself infringes does now does apple have a suit against LG right now I don't think it does I don't think it does III think motorola is the only one that's left that Apple has an active suit against and that's all very interesting well yeah I think the question might be does that go even know if it has i think if you okay assuming apple's press relations people actually spoke to anybody and responded to email and you reached out to them do you think they would actually know of the top of their head coup de su in a good or not sewing or if you said hey guys you have a go suit against Sony they'd be like yeah let me just give a get to legal and find out and I have a post it on our imax of who is currently illegal litigation with them right now yeah it's like dude we need to take care of acer asus first of all we're gonna have a bit cooler here before we get to OG in over its kind of so i really do you think this is kind of like the dark and unpleasant side of our business because the whole baked and stuff is just so tiresome and i say this is somebody who studied low for a long time I know there are actually fascinating areas of law you might not believe it but it's true and pay some boys and one of them like they're probably should be when I first went in to go and won't started studying it I was like I'll dude I feel almost be the greatest you know it's you you get to talk about technology telecoms media all of these glamorous and interesting things you're in cutting-edge yadda yadda yadda and then look look at the things we're stuck talking about it's like Apple got a paintings on the underground in rectangle it happened it literally happened and i'm reading our headline and I'm like you know growing my eyes and not believing it and I'm like wait Neil I wrote this so it's not a joke that's it I mean I've got nothing else to contribute to that so as far as you know that the the lawsuits that are left there is definitely the lawsuit with Motorola which is immensely interesting because of motorola's very close ties to Google itself now but we still don't really know what's going to happen with that and i'm not sure what I want cedar but I'm just goodbye i'm shaoling josh Topolsky here I've got some problem with my hair and so I'm just checking to make sure that it doesn't look completely ridiculous only partially I would check this whoa but my video feed looks completely gelatin ated at the moment yeah Vlad I could tell that you have hair yeah so so change well yes yeah you've been growing that up it looks very nice I've a complete recovery from a haircut so we don't really know what's going to happen yet with motorola an apple but i think that'll be you know as you know if I just said how uninteresting all of this is I think if anything it'll be interesting to see with the watch to see what happens with those two you know does it that's true I could be the drama and the soap opera that we also like to create around these things who's going to sustain story anyway but speaking of soap operas let us actually talk about Steven sadowski and his departure because that is through a major major thing that happened over the weekend yeah so he's out he left on the twelfth pretty much effective immediately although he's you know gonna hang around and help if needed um he is pulling a forced home yeah he's fully well that's actually exactly right people inside the company tell us that one of the big reasons that he's leaving is he just doesn't play well with others and you know he likes you know his silo control of things and doesn't like to collaborate and uh you know that's what Microsoft needs to do now they need Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 and SkyDrive and Windows Live or whatever they're calling it these days and Xbox and I don't even know what else you know they all need those things to talk to each other and interoperate and you know share stuff more so than they do now and you know if he's not the person to help make that happen then you know I guess he's gotta go Julie larson-green is taking over for windows and what's really interesting for us mobile side is Andy Lee's who had sort of unceremoniously been taken off of the Windows Phone team to work on like a generic you know cross windows phone 8 windows project that was never very well defined is now back and he his new job is what now I think windows corporate development and strategy so he's sort of back in the mix as a player at Microsoft which is I think I just want to say corporate development strategy is perfectly defined and everybody from my grandmother to I nice my five-year-old niece perfectly understands and gross the width and breadth of that decision that's ah Jesus uh oh so what I tools like what you totally eaten your Wheaties this morning you're just angry angry man not do you if I Wheaties I would be joking all day I'm afraid of cops Akron for like cereal like you know or can fiber chunks or Wheaties or whatever like do you ever crave carbs is there like a non no no but does the point like like cogs and arian trading mobs vegetarians eating soy and pretending it's burger do you do anything like that you pretend that something is wheat no I never pretend I keep it real he keeps it really keeps it raw then why are we talking about glads diet again this isn't good what tweeted this afternoon a picture of cauliflower and broccoli and said this piece is yummy its glazed donuts to me is it is if your if your palate adjusts to not be completely destroyed by eating you know sugar and dogs or whatever then yeah you you taste flavors other people thought tasting regal I want I want to go back sugar wait wait no I was going to talk about any leads yeah then we I just all I wanted to say was I was really happy that the Vlad is you know passionate and angry but it's and then we started talking about College yeah okay look yeah that's a good point and job titles like senior vice president and then another noun after that like senior vice president something-something operations like that is so grammatically Boston like it makes me feel dirty if I were to write it in full but set all that aside um first the first thing to say is that Cena Sinofsky was the guy in charge of Windows 8 yeah right and you got it uh yeah I mean Windows 8 is a product of Steven Sinofsky work so let's give the guy credit he might be a complete and epic asshole to people worked with but the final product of what he produced I had a cohesive vision again we don't we already know I mean how could you really assess something as you know holistic is a desktop OS over you know a few days or a couple of weeks even you need to sit down and spend time so we'll see how Windows a develop some of the long run but to me I totally agree on the point about Microsoft needing to unite the various strands of ass ecosystem as in uffish strong personality as strongly to control things getting in the way of that because I say he was the man in charge of windows 8 and windows 8 was like his baby and it was like a ball right and he's clutching it tightly whereas what Microsoft is trying to do is like take these balls is that let's get back to the food metaphors they're like free balls of mints and you're trying to splice them and make one giant epic ball of Awesomeness right and if he's touching it too tightly and he can't work with the other guys you know guys like Joe Belfiore in charge of Windows Phone and whoever's in charge of Xbox Live and no services that's where the friction comes and the first things that steve ballmer actually remarked about a successor to me the most destructive yeah this is information because he said looking at the technical and the professional requirements for the job I think she has exactly the qualities that we need and the first quality identified was good communication skills and the second was collaborate effectively so just the things that he's highlighting is positives in her like somebody who's just broken up with one girlfriend and moving on to a new one and saying that the new one has these really great qualities that usually tends to be the things that your girlfriend which in this case is Steven Sadowski was lacking that's enough analogies free yeah I mean the thing is like the what I would expect to be next for for Windows Phone like what you know how would this affect Windows Phone like they did it right they got it on the windows 8 core and the there's not you can't directly take a Windows 8 app and just throw it onto Windows Phone 8 so maybe they'll fix that and move in that direction but it's actually relatively close based on what they were talking about a bill and what I've seen even if you can't just directly just like release it on both platforms at the same time whoa look at that light in the background there even if you can't release an app on the same good both platforms just the same thing the skills that you need to make one app now directly translate to the skills to make the other app and you can share assets and it's actually very easy to do one or the other so I'm not sure what this executive shake-up means like directly for the future Windows Phone that they haven't already accomplished under you know under synopses leadership I just want to say that Andy Lee's was the guy who's the head of kin yeah ah come on don't hold that against him as somebody who has a massive in this please didn't buys come late to kin though didn't he kind of inherit kin I can't remember the timeline I went out you know what did Oliver backlinks that is an enormous printer in the background on his video feed enormous and apparently use it every day which makes him a completely evil person I wouldn't say every day but it gets used every week right and so what I'm saying then is you can't hold bad decisions against people like I don't hold that against you too much so you can't hold that against tantalise like okay ken failed so you move on it doesn't mean that the guy in self is a complete not a failure well and like you're saying with his us extremely nebulous title we don't really even know how close he'll be to Windows Phone 8 anyways so yeah but yeah we'll be very interesting to see uh you know how Windows Phone 8 like you were saying Peter how to develop parallel with Windows Phone or Windows 8 and if it will become even closer than they are now the one thing that would sinofsky is I guess a lot of people really thought him to be Steve Ballmer successor as CEO oh yeah but that's not the case so that's a that's pretty interesting it'll be interesting to see who would Microsoft you know kind of bubbles to the top as maybe possibly the the successor to Ballmer now or maybe bra water will just continue to be for eternity uh we should have funny we haven't pointed out like Windows Phone 8 has launched like we should bring that up like the 920 the 8x are on AT&T what's verizon got the 10 i forget out what's on every care so they had 22 a 22 and then DX those are going to be in stores on the fifteenth verizon clarified that today and then also on tmobile the eight to 10 a 10 and uh there's gonna have phones and i gots to go over today actually from t Verizon is going to have a free windows phone 8 device by the end of the here which is fine yeah I mean I guess I guess you know the verizon has that one hundred dollar price point and the two hundred dollar price point so the free price point is kind of like that lowend cover so so verizon's definitely got a full windows phone 8 spread uh yo covering all of the price points that it would expect to cover to match against its android offerings and of course against the iphone models that it offers so how excited are we about this chris was very excited he went out to an ATT store and bought a Lumia 920 a cyan one uh oh yeah of course I will answer that question glad as we get closer to the holiday season and we start to see how the marketing push goes and how sales go as a result of that marketing push oh so you you're going to be like a sports commentator I no no no no but no listen it you know we dudes this today just saying no when you don't even know what I mean uh what are you okay go ahead Colette let me get my knives yeah like I was what i was watching the NFL over the weekend and thing that was consistently noticing is that the Vikings are awesome and totally enhanced the Lions that's what I know the story yeah dude Adrian Peterson an amazing um but the thing I'm so I was also noticing is that sports commentators love to wait until a decision a decisions consequence is a fully apparent and then they give the expert opinion on it so they wait until like this is what I'm not you're gonna say and let me tell you why you're wrong go ahead because our consistent complaint about Windows Phone 8 isn't the app ecosystem isn't there either in terms of breath but especially in terms of depth and like apps feeling on par with what's available on the other platforms and microphone is doing with everything they can to solve that problem with the thing that will actually solve that problem our sales numbers are devices in people's hands and people demanding from these app developers to make better and more apps for Windows Phone 8 and the only way those sales numbers are going to go up as if we see you know Realogy remarketing brush so we've got a chicken and egg problem here but the you know it's a classic ecosystem conundrum but one of the ways that we have seen that ecosystem conundrum get solved is verizon our you know ATT or carriers and the manufacturers or in this case Microsoft working together on a unified awesome powerful and huge holiday marketing push to actually sell devices and if that happens then you know by the end of the holiday season we will see more devices more market share and that will drive more apps so you know I'm you know am I excited I'll be excited if you know it's able to you know lead to a more robust ecosystem and I think it could I think they're doing everything they can we'll just have to wait and see what the marketing looks like and I had another point and I lost it but the that's been ever you say you first quit was so damn good that man come back so to follow up with the eaters point yesterday I at the droid DNA launch event I had a little bit of time to chat with verizon's CFO and I asked her you know Verizon's marketing push in the holidays is always very large and it can be the type of thing that either makes it if I succeed or makes a device fail and I asked you know what's it going to be like for windows phone 8 and the verizon has really started its marketing campaign yet um but she did say that starting when they're available in stores so I guess tomorrow there'll be gonna be available at stores so we should be seeing some some windows phone 8 ads from verizon and we'll have to see if it's as big of a campaign as obviously the Droid has been and obviously what verizon's done with Apple ads I mean Microsoft is promising a big campaign to you know but like Rolling Thunder you know was not much um well that was nokia right yeah i know but what I'm saying is like big promises don't necessarily yield big results and you know I mean here's the thing like this is a new platform again and I know that apps from windows phone 7 75 carry over and I know it's been around for a couple of years but in terms of what apps are actually able to do with native code now and like games able to get ported to it or even launching on it originally a much more quickly it's it's a whole new platform that has new possibilities that haven't been exploited on windows phone at all because they just weren't there and I want to see you know I want to see apps i want an IRC f that can persist in the background I want you know killer games that appear on Windows Phone the same day they appear in iOS or Windows even I just want to start what's up so I can buy coffee without having to trust the third party sketchy up so I mean it they've built everything they need to do now they just need to sell the phones and get the virtual cycle Nico system going I can't believe just the sheer dependency the ban is built up my smartphone like this really measure of a stove except I I can't get coffee anymore I don't understand Vlad I don't know how to exist anymore can somebody help me if I don't if I don't use my Starbucks app I don't earn my rewards points and then I don't get my free drink so it's it's all it's a cycle they've got me sucked in do you know it's not totally collecting what's that you know it's not a free drink well like if you like let me have my dream okay if you actually came to negotiate with people like starbucks or people like your supermarket and they ask you how much do you want for your data how much do you want for your shopping habits and you were going to sell them you could get so much more than freaking you know a few cents on every purchase so then eventually it adds up to a free drink a quotation marks you being ripped off with all these loyalty cards mean think about it it's a loyalty card you had the lawyer one that's like it's a convenience factor and it's you know the stupid rewards are whatever but now the truth is that dan will only get coffee from Starbucks he hates local businesses he entrepreneurs he hates you know the local coffee shop you know some mom and pop place he wants corporations to win uh you know glad you and I are you know socialist but he is a hardcore capitalist he's much that's you know in the one person yes a Starbucks app on their phone I mean they just deserve it right I mean it's sitting on his on his iphone right next to his foie gras app you know just right there yeah I mean look I don't even need to read a passbook opens it for me think about that I walk into the starbucks and pass book opens my my my app for me and it's like go spend this money on sugary loaded over roasted coffee that doesn't really taste like it and like how are you not horrified but if stuff you just saying right now it's like oh hey it's the apocalypse it's going that's about it maybe does a realistic part I mean the other thing we found out this week is that apparently Arabica coffee is going to go extinct because of global warming within the next eight years this is a crisis this is a real crisis like me Erica isn't the only type of coffee but is the higher quality it's the one that matters nobody wants to take the robusta come on ah dude I can't believe how much reaction we wrote about this in first of all I'm like wait we've write about coffee now this is within our remit and I look at it and I wouldn't like very mad if we did not convinced and nms although people have picked it up on facebook and on twitter and it's like hundreds and hundreds of comments and everybody's alarmed about it and all of these things whereas if we do an article about you know landfill in Southeast Asia you'll get like six comments and you know follow the people who like well though sucks where's the droid DNA coming out again copy we need to prison yeah before we wrap up I do want oh do we want to talk about FaceTime on AT&T um I just point out that sweeper in the chat was that who was yeah sweet Britt in the chat just wanted to say that the dance or republican he install this Romney on his phone boom amazes me to be happy hello although I love a bad pun man um so AT&T has like backtrack just the teeniest tiniest amount and I wish we had Chris here to to rant about this because he wrote a really good article about how 1880s flip-flop on facetime over cellular should scare you like they're allowing / phone's not on mobile share to do facetime over cellular but it's still twitchy right like it's not every single plan they just stepped it back just a little bit and it's you know in response to not direct regulatory pressure but like the threat of a possibility of it but it's still like it shows that like us complaining about FaceTime on the mobile podcast doesn't actually fix anything it's it's insane how arbitrary these restrictions are because and before it was you had to be on a mobile share plan didn't matter which device you own if it was FaceTime compatible and was on a mobile share plan you could use it over cellular and now it's like well only if you have an LTE device but you don't have to be on LTE to use it you can still be on an hspa+ network or connection and use it but it's got to be an LTE device so it's like sorry 4s users who are not on mobile share and sorry for iphone users who are on grandfathered unlimited plans because if you're on a limited plan you're you're just well I'm assuming that it's that arbitrary restriction is because they're still afraid that the network is going to fall down because there's just flat-out more iphone 4s users out there than there are iphone 5 users so it's not about LTE it's about it's about just limiting the numbers yeah yeah although I must admit as well as then explained everything I am completely a loss of what the hell is coming on I have no idea honey well I would just like to note that you know and how many carriers are Kari offered the iphone across the world and there's one carrier that has a problem with it and its ATT and like no other carrier is having a problem with facetime see how America yeah okay not nobody enjoys okay but actually i just wanted to squeeze in a couple of observations from the UK before dita wraps up in his expert style first of all it's have a good pass book which then brought up with the sub box application and now that's cool that it happens for you automatically that i'm really happy for you and I'm gonna let you finish by a neck okay but actually passbook in the UK is one of the saddest things you ever see there is like four compatible things and I well I want to say that it's pretty it's pretty damn sad in the u.s. too because i use it for starbucks and I've when we reviewed iOS 6 at the time the only thing that was available for passbook was a walgreens app and so I have that installed as well uh but yeah it's pretty pathetic yeah I mean it's barren at the moment it is a typical of Apple but then so is maps so whatever and a Nokia Maps coming to Iowa that's about that yeah we did I add that to our list did we so know if they rebranded here they bought here com they're doing crowd sourcing for their Maps data which seems like amazing but Google's been doing that forever and ways is doing that and there's you know open street maps this is that that's you know everybody's doing that well ya know then it's coming to iOS is potentially really great because Nokia's mappings is you know really good I just hope they get it released in relatively short order so actually we're doing this series this mind-blowing series of living wid things which which is right now focused around the home theater stuff so like xbox 360 ps3 amazon devices etc and i'm thinking we need to do one with living with Nokia Maps because I actually I've tried it I've always tried it occasionally and given it a shot during reviews or whatever but I've never sat down actually like use it extensively the weather I've used google maps and had to rely on it on a daily basis I'm sure the same will be fascinating to do with respect to iOS 6 now that this is like a pitch meeting for future features I did I'd if I do you feel like sometimes we're kind of you know you kind of need to spend some extensive time to really appreciate you because all I ever hear about Nokia Maps is yes is good and it's being reliable enough when I'm use it on occasion but I'm still kind of wary like I wouldn't buy a phone I think this is good as Google Maps yeah would you guys say that's the case I think we're so loosely mice in my testing yeah the my testing in terms of accuracy and you know directions and everything else Nokia Maps has been as good as Google Maps I've had I had no problems there I've had some unfamiliarity with the UI and I kind of don't love it and there's a problem specifically on the Lumia 920 we're like the old Bing Maps was still there in a weird way anyway so it I think if you were to live with Nokia Maps for a month I think you would probably find that you would get used to the UI you feel pretty good about it and you may get really into stuff like you know the local local Scouts and Windows funny thing but i forget what Nokia's local like they've got their augmented reality anything local citizens yeah which people I'm now just a few new age 8 yeah I doubt you would find it as like as good as I doce y el pin in certain areas um no yep is garbage well the car you'll find counter else is garbage everywhere SAT for a samsung easing in san fran so y'all go get 5 carats so I'm never gonna try looking for what a man forget you out man oh it's a water pump we don and what about must have way too much sugar man no no it doesn't doesn't doesn't thing it's really really sweet but it's actually very low in calories and sugar it's it's amazing watermelon is utterly amazing what do you do with the situation's eat them yeah I chew are you afraid of a watermelon grown man up man need the seeds so I just want to say it's going to be a very amusing day when I download and install a Nokia Maps app on my iPhone I just find that very just to clarify is it is it now just called here or is it nokia here I don't recall um i think it's i think it's just here I mean you know it's from Nokia so it's no gate here Chris put it uh yesterday I was saying that and he's like well just think of it as the NAD tech app so good yeah but I mean I've used a whole bunch of different third-party map solutions on iOS and they're all pretty terrible yeah so far right and so if they can you know make this feel I think it's just called here maps Oh Dunn's Evans code here maps like why I have to hear it so if you just see how critical it maps I mean are you really that worried about what is uh yes damage Adam with the brand to buy roofing today so I'm worried okay but yeah the other thing I was just going to throw away quickly is something i could have comments on a couple of weeks back and i was missing from last week's podcast which was LTE in London here in the UK yeah because I managed to get an OT you know do a little round round the city jury and test it out see how what what LT handset did you get dude you broke up there for a second from e.e it was a galaxy s freak but you know they spoiled the iphone 5 the Lumia 920 etc um and I have the HTC One X 0 honestly the 1x one XL 1x plus spirity Xperia T L not get a 20 lumia 822 these guys are like yeah I've no words left to describe but anyway is it a LT in London is good bordering on glorious depending on where you are yeah and completely irrelevant again depending on where you are yeah so if you are where I live in a perfectly civilized lovely leafy area of North London there's just nothing well I mean the best I can get is free g plus whatever the heck that is to actually do a bit of community move around but ok so i'm masahiro but as soon as I start approaching Highgate I get reception and then it jumps from like three and four megabit which is actually kind of low compared to the free network I jump from that for free for megabit to like 19 down and 17 up and like speed test starts flying I mean just literally flying and I like that so that's when it starts becoming fun to just run the speed tests yeah I'm not kidding you it's like usually I run a speedtest and I go and do and think about something else it's like making tea that's how it is whereas with this thing is like the tap on speed test and you yokai said and you look down it's already done right and as you move into you know particularly areas of good coverage in city the highest pizza got were like 36 38 minutes down and something like 20 up which is just crazy on a phone and I'm really starting to appreciate why you guys are so nuts about LTE and i can tell you i can tell you i can do that uh you know two weeks ago I was saying people here in the UK we're going to be okay with the fact that doesn't have LT and vast majority of people here I go to be perfectly fine with it because eee price plans are not great its coverage is not great its bandwidth or rather the frequency which it operates isn't great for penetration buildings so you won't be covered everywhere you go outside and some buildings you go inside the office and you lose your soup cause did so there's a whole heap of thing standing the way but when you do get that little boost of lte man it's like it's like primordial man tasting his first refined sugar it's not just a brush which which Vlad will not eat that's right but you know it's in it it's it's good they're just a whole bunch of caveats at the moment well I hope it'll be interesting to see how the the network in the UK will handle load as more people get on it because those speeds that you're saying we see them from time to time in the US but most of the time if you're on verizon's LTE network which is which is you know pretty broad and fairly well loaded at this point you don't usually see 20 up and 20 down but you see more like 13 down and seven or eight or nine up which is still by the way good come on yeah I mean compare that with the experience and have no or HSPA it's like oh yeah when it when it hands off down to 3G I just pretty much want to just put my phone away and give up because verizon cdma service is so slow and they're just one of the addendum I wanted to throw in and i'll say i was listening to this on the BBC which is actually that apparently development in africa with mobile telephones first of all sales of phones in Africa I like going off the chain I mean I'm sure they're like 2g really basic simple phones but everybody needs a phone nowadays because of mobile payments or things like that they facilitate things which mount possible and connectivity and all of these things and which isn't that fascinating but the thing that I picked up from this BBC report was actually that quite a few carries in Africa might completely skip 3g and just stop rolling out 4g and this is something i found cute about Bulgaria's broadband rollout because we never bother with dial-up and DSL or these things they just jump straight to like fiber optic connections and big fat pipes and all of these things which is why i had 50 megabit helm in the most rural part of bulgaria and and this is a nudge I just really enjoyed the idea of people in Africa go from like to G where everything's like tech space like i'll send you a payment text i'll send you a facebook message text and all of a sudden like 4g droid dna's dropping out the is hi I'm service worried its breed three times if you count the young gay whole' SS wearing yeah that's an atomic an antigen on that of that beautiful note i am gonna wrap up the Virgin Mobile show for this week if you want to follow us on Twitter where we do occasionally swear you can i'm at backlog lads at flats a bob Dan's at DCC Fredette Seifert is spelled with an e I Chris who is not here is at z power and if you want to tell him that you missed him on the show you can but I recommend you do so with a photo of a cyan colored phone we'll be back next week which day who knows we'll see how we feel we're not beholding anybody I mean we were bold to you our viewers but whatever okay goodbye thanks for watching thanks guys