Gadgetory

hey and welcome to the verge cast for the week of December 5th 2011 I'm Josh Topolsky I'm Paul Miller no wrong Miller that's not right tell your brother you're wrong you're you're Paul Miller's little brother Rock oh oh sorry let me try again I'm Ross Miller I'm new hotel and we're back Paul Miller actually will be on yeah he's going to be on we just swapped Miller's just isn't on right now yeah anyhow where was next we're back on the verge cast and a big week yeah I mean come on was it a big week the droids I bored was announced it was I rose the week of this eye board and when you think about it that's pretty really element that's pretty important anyhow but you know we're back to talk about the week in technology and consumer electronics and whatever wrong so I don't know Ross just as I said that rushes his eyebrows like tell me more yeah so anyhow we're back and we're gonna discuss what's been happening kind of a lot going on but it's also one of those if CES is coming in a month CS is bearing down on us like a like a like your tax return yeah is C yes in many ways is you know it's inevitable yeah it's gonna you're gonna have to do it yeah let's you live in some sort of European you know socialized where they're just taking taxes left right and center yeah I'm just doing I'm just doing whatever they want with your taxes am i right I like my right Paul building roads Falls not it Paul's nodding off camera schools building roads how dare they but listen anyhow let's this isn't it's not about socialism which we talk about every single part it's about we should we should just talk to talk about tantrum I do it Siraj what why have you removed Paul I'm staking identity actually no um I'm here this week to talk about the Xbox Live dashboard that went out this week so like a really big update it's the what I can tell it's played open for a couple minutes so it's the second visual refreshment the first one wasn't launched was blades and then the new Xbox experience and now this the Mixy Mixy yes this is like Nix III yeah it's like new Nick see ya in your new Nick see it's like it really is like it's a time of new newness yeah right with Twitter which we're talking about later yeah good yes sorry so the big changes you'll see and it rolled out this week I think on Wednesday ish there's the Metro UI the entire UI is now it looks like a Windows Phone and this is future Windows as it should be is it all should squares everywhere mattress hope you like Metro style is very metro you know I was just not to interrupt but I was at I was at the Microsoft campus earlier in the weekend and Metro is everywhere there are there services like on the floors and the walls and the tables people are wearing gigantic square shirts and sliding from one yeah just I in across the campus that's quite a minute it's quite amazing yeah and yeah go on Vidia metro it's metro style yeah measures one it's uh three big things oh it's a metro but it also not right and it's like it's got the sliding but then like he bowls in its influence yeah very heavy it's very metro styled of course metro is like a touchscreen you know kind of a interface but this is not and you do not want to use this with connect way it's still that kind of hover hand thing oh really yeah you still have to hover hand see most of everything on there looks like that I like your word of warning by the way I'm adjustment Mike Scientologist your word of warning you're like you do not want this you don't you don't even don't even it's bad it's not cool anyway the second big improvement is being searched I don't know what they call it being but well I dunno why I think I think I know why because that's their search engine it's you know it's searching the web you're searching all the games all the movies and TV shows you can watch on the Xbox and actually includes Netflix and Hulu now you can search through that mm-hmm the unified being searched right and that's like a Kinect thing they connect things you can like but like Kinect not wavy but like not ways Kinect not wavy Kinect voice direct yes Kinect not wave that some of their technical term connect not wavy connect voice yeah those are two different pieces of documentation if you remember when Sinofsky was talking about like I like this Kinect not wavy thing yeah it's an auskey talked about not wavy constantly yeah let's get you let's get to the meat of this anyway so you've got a being voice search which is actually a really cool thing if you can get to work and most the time it does kind of understand what you're doing you can I'm actually watching myself a meal is going to don't do this I actually just put mine on and and I've observed that that at certain angles this collar looks like an LL Bean Dracula thank you hang on like I mean isn't it yuppie vampire your listless dad on a boat I'm just with dad I don't know if you do if you read it here you're about to go yachting yeah I'm yachting I don't think he's to me at night night yard yeah oh come on dude night yacht she's good nights my 80s like super class yesterday night night yacht not yeah a yacht is really good okay that's cool that's like the spinner you mean like it so it's with a K yeah yes night yacht yes good that's good for the band - yeah we must attract these people don't yes sir no but he is a different kind of voice right yeah I mean I assume so it's like it's bronze like a pirate voice all right come on seriously let's talk okay Metro UI odd notes box Live dashboard Metro UI being voice search and the other big thing is the new Windows Phone app the Xbox companion which is legitimately cool it is legitimately cool if you have a Windows Phone which again is a very small hey come on yeah okay so that's what they're trying to do they're trying to many people in the game it's ok one could go wait a second I've got a Windows I've got a Windows PC I've got an Xbox I've got an Xbox next next move in spots yeah yeah it's to get the phone where you can't do gaming get the phone you can either games but not multiplayer chivos there's chivos on it yeah you've got upper gamer score bro gamer Schwartz terrible my gamer score reflects them so what do you make of the new what do you make of the new interface what are your feelings on it I mean honestly compared to what the new Xbox experience or the old new Xbox race a lot better and I do like the look of it it's very grown-up it's very grown-up the new net Netflix app is sophisticated yeah it's very fun it it orders a bottle of sparkling water when it goes out to you if a new Xbox Experience is am still light this is kind of a two buck chuck it's getting there and so and I literally like a six-pack of Amstel Light is is way more expensive than this then two buck chuck but you get six of them but I'm saying like it's more alcohol by volume think about it and it's more alcohol in volume yeah did I've just literally just shoot my truck would be going down that's like you're a wino or yeah but it's easier to drink it's an easier are you happy why now yeah they're out there on your night yacht Oh God not yacht no I like it the other face Netflix got updated it looks a lot better whoo-hoo got updated and now you can actually like instead of saying play panel one play panel two you can actually say played Arrested Development and it knows you're talking about that's pretty cool yeah really nice it's a lot and they're doing all this other video stuff so they're gonna bring FiOS TVs you if your FiOS subscribe you can watch TV your Comcast you can do Xfinity on demand all those YouTube is coming none of these are actually out yet from FiOS and you two were supposed to come this month comcast sometime early 2012 yeah so we're not there yet but those are like in the pipeline now and so this is like I mean I have to say so I played with it a little bit yesterday and then looking at the partner stuff it's interesting that this is not this this whole thing is not about gaming for the Xbox no this is about doing everything else no this is this is they've got gaming unlock right this is like hey we have Netflix and we have Hulu and we have all this other stuff we're adding we really want you to start thinking of this as right this is your entertainment this is what you depend on this is I think if they do fire never turn off so the thing about the FiOS thing is that it's only 26 channels so I don't know what that channel list is but if they could do it to this thing actually it's 26 of the worst channel I'm sure it's like it's like WB 4 on the verge fan just we could have W before this this next season sponsored by to be determined yeah but I mean if they had all the channels or if there's 20 such annals are good like I would put this on input one what does input 1 mean when you have when all inputs are basically the same and not all this yeah well they're all HDMI inputs and they just have different numbers we but what you turn on your TV and leave it on is input 1 cuz that's TV no no I mean how do you leave your TV on well so I have an AV receiver so I'm accurate I leave it on yeah and then I have a harmony and it's so it's so you are a gigantic nerd with the universal remote yeah I just I just I'm just saying like it's not I don't it's because something else is managing for you well I mean sometimes yeah I mean yes but in many ways something else most people don't have that other that's something else I mean you have to push the input button on the remote to get beautiful metaphorical input what not actually physically changing the cable those oh this is just the most beautiful no I'm gonna get back there I'm gonna light a candle I'm gonna sing a song I'm unplugged my DVR and I'm yeah I don't think anybody's taken nobody taking their DVR off input one but it's the goal I mean that's that's the end game for Microsoft is to say you don't need a DVR anymore you just need an Xbox 360 will stream FiOS TV d you will stream your Comcast on demand to you and for everything else there's this sounds great exactly you know actually one of the they do IPTV delivery in other countries so in the UK around the world it actually is a set-top box it actually does you and there's a menu option that like laughs and Americans that select your TV provider right if you dig into the menus it says TV and like I clicked it like all excited you know what allowed that to happen just it's not me you know you know it's made that possible what's that socialism that's right yeah maybe but that's like what's happening here right they're trying to do all this TV stuff and like be the living room provider because you're right they have they've kind of won the gaming's but yeah you know who's you know sniffing around what's that you know who's about to show up is it a polite well I mean I'm not gonna put words in your mouth and you're not gonna put words in my mouth no or stay away from it but yeah I mean they've got it they gotta get they got to come big with this stuff now yeah and I mean they need to make this a thing right they need to say this is now we're doing this we're in the living room where the entertain because it's clear there's all this talk something is happening apples gonna do something right and the second Apple does something they start telling the story Microsoft's can do like you got to be kidding me right we'd be doing right via phone just died of styli what's the plot you know and if this is the tablet and this is voice right no no it's it's the tablet all over again they're pushed they've been in the living room right they've been pushing more than just video gaming in the living room Media Center has existed for ages does is not getting traction I mean this is kind of their tablet again right but and you know how to check it out I mean the way Xbox is their tap that's what I'm saying though but but they're the TV push hasn't been successfully their Xbox is successful as a gaming system and it's growing as an as an entertainment hub mm-hmm but they need to make it real right for people they said they need to actually you know an Xbox was launched they did all this Media Center integration right yeah they need to actually just stop the Ilia connection you can connect to write your media center people every was like I don't have a media center I think I think the minute what's a media center I think the minute they got Netflix on there kind of realized well this is like this is their success story right like the health Netflix was kind of blow up and yeah this is their success forex story that in the in 92 percent of all pcs in the world that run their software right right in every enterprise everywhere which is amazing is they got nothing this is a thing I think this is where they missed it with media center right 92% of the PCs were on their software FL PCs and Xboxes don't talk to it don't play don't play with each other right and they should they should do a way better job well they should have a lot of time together they should have found some way to bring like Xbox gaming to pieces they they they veered in and out of it I think they've been talking about that in like halting like Evo's yeah Xbox Live I mean is your wait is though access to Xbox Live you hit PC Paul right no you can go to Xbox calm that's it it's right but it's like they just sitting there yeah 92% of the PC market people are playing games on their PCs or so I'm told no you know no I was told they put out an iOS app actually speaking of Xbox Live it's now easier to kind of interact with Xbox Live on an iPhone where's the Android app they're not I doubt I would say I think Microsoft has like a cordial relationship with Microsoft it is just me being mean without a boy yeah and it's just open hey I'm telling you I when we were out there I talked to a few people and it's definitely clear there's now like you know what apples not too bad I think especially by the way since Steve Jobs died I feel like it's pretty hard to dis a pariah they just had like a pretty major loss like a really emotional thing I do they're kind of like you know pretty good partners actually when you think about it we're actually kind of friends you know yeah you don't realize this like there was a lot of like you know you don't realize this but blah blah blah blah it's like yeah you guys just have a you have an enemy now together a real one it's like the enemy of my enemy is my enemy or what is it the ready is my friend yeah it's the reverse of that is it not a friend of my friend is my enemy is my friend my friend that's the work that make both the enemies a friend you think about it no the enemy of your enemy is your friend because you should say it's a three-way three-way and share because the enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your enemy right at any rate I think we could agree I don't think I'm stupid I'm not sure basic there are very basic concepts that I find impossible to grasp yeah right like bingo yeah still don't know how it's played how many days are there in a year still so we're camping like I'm like at least 120 yeah I know that takes more than 100 yeah okay we will tell you what the dashboard right alright we have a hard stop in 20 minutes we get to rehearsals for the show tomorrow so no let's just let's just jam through some things alright thanks this is where you leave Miller tag team out we said nothing about the dash bar by the way we talked about it there's tiles as i speaking you ready to tag in here alright okay here we go Miller's goodbye Ross is real not cool oh wow their clock it's gonna be getting this Miller emotional over there I just need your reaction you straight that's great you don't know what just happened off camera it was pretty sick yeah not in a cool way we do have a bingo some no we have we have like two bingo people are awesome hey so you guys hear about this this xbox update hey what's up with that file with us phone and they made you know the tetris tetris time metro yeah and they brought it to the expo the impression that Microsoft and Apple are kind of a little more buddy-buddy now was just think I was just really really tell me more yeah anyhow I were the next thing yeah let's do so as I gherkin Lee said at the top of the show the Motorola Droid zai board was announced this week yeah what are your most hilarious you know by the way yeah who super funny that's basically every once while there's like a major product like product announcement that just wasn't around for you know like I was doing something else I was at this was a major product announcement well so I see a word like zai board on Twitter right I like I'm out of the office come back oh that's a real thing that's that's really hilarious I'm a design board is very real hilarious Android name generator' oh yeah yeah really good we covered that this week it's awesome if you guys haven't seen it by the way the Android phone name generator is amazing in fact I'm just gonna dial it what's great is I boards the like the name generator could not come up with right yeah it's the exception that proves the rule laughs like they will go to no end to make what your worst name you know it's really amazing about these products is first their it seems to be a letter dated like four eyes and just did them alone I mean here's a good one Acer legend touch my uncle bought one he was asking me how to get any great Samsung dream plus these guys are so good yeah you should put that away because I'm not it's another color of this happening LG devour do act easy how would she devoured neo xtz that's really awesome amazing yeah on a lot actually devour neo is a really realistic that's good xt xt z yeah I assume this is based off of the the galaxy s ii 4G let's Britt yeah which is the most it is one of the most heinous phone namings it's awful or at naming if anything yeah babies well I think the LG rumor touch still is like the worst overall phone completely bumble it's great Evo branded yeah completely they followed it up with the the Evo slide no it's called the e above that was called the Evo what was the slider one and the Evo touch force you know it's called like the Evo what the hell was it called I've designed a 4G that just came out which is a piece of junk Evo that he was Eva 3d was the real misstep yeah that was where they're like they're still trying to go high-end they thought high-end Oh sweetie anyway look so about the design I think this is really interesting because we're about to go you go either shift Evo chef yeah the slide thank you last year it's yes a year ago this time we went to CES and we saw the Atrix and we saw the zoom right yes and they're both being member excited about the Atrix I remember how we're like the serum it like this is a big deal this is a true tragedy of being into technology when you cat compact crushing this you have to look back on your excitement about the Atrix and how you thought that the the lap to the lap the laptop dock was going to be it for you know the ish well it so so the Atrix to just came out like totally on heralded launched an 18 t you rolled it it wasn't like it just came out the motors like this video you mean herald an arrow did I say her all did yeah I think about geraldo I thought you would say like there's a phone called the Geraldo thank you this is what happens my type for a living and you drink a Miele yeah not an endorsement it's just like it's now to about Chuck okay it's also not an endorsement and then this is awkward leaked out and they actually released the Xoom 2 media Edition in the zoom 2 in the UK at a launch or just trying to get some stuff out before the Google deal goes through I guess I try to get rid of all it was that opportunity yeah exactly but they weren't even involved in this launch like motor like Verizon has been talking about the droids I board for like a couple weeks and nor does like we don't comment on this stuff and finally Verizon's like well here's a press release it's five $29.99 on the comment on this this is this is the inverse of the the Galaxy Nexus it is insane though right the Quran is by Rison will not release the Galaxy Nexus yeah but they're all too eager to put out the press release for these iboard which is five hundred and thirty dollars on contract ridicul and nobody's going to buy to buy the quarters you know like this corner I just cannot they remind me I don't know if you guys know a skater Christian Hosoi from the 80s he had a series of decks they were called hammerheads and they had a shape that was like it was kind of like this and then that the front of them if you can imagine this is like the front half the board went like that than that and then down kind of like that now I mean they're the shape of those tail at the other there was it yeah I mean just I feel like on the internet and look up look up Christian Hosoi hammerhead it's h OS oh I these guys know if my brother Mannis Cooper that's what this eye board that's what all these new Motorola's remind me of everybody now is furiously everybody see it you're saying by the way we have a bunch of our new writers here know in the office that everybody's furiously googling right now we just we just brought it we did do we you get that great you see it do you agree this it's similar to the Zhai board it's got a way about it nothing says I board TCU is just saying it's there whatever anyhow anyway so there's two of them they're ridiculously not specific or his that's a quote and they're named as a board which is just amazing and I have no idea why so we just suggested the Zoidberg yes with it acts like that number a year ago they put out the zoom in the zoom and nine honeycomb remember they remember how they were like you get upgrade to 4G yeah it's been and like just well so if we're gonna stick with the X naming convention where do you go from here I mean whatever zoom to xylophone you can pick any word you want so it needs to be a three three axes the xxx - yeah xxx - damn so that mean that's why don't they just call something the triplet the soul oh no that's a Zhi Zhu I know yeah well you got to make it go dizzy you gotta mix it up when nothing stopping them from good using D names what the exes is worth extreme the extreme would be why Detroit extreme I'm actually and I believe this belly will be X T ar e ex TR TD you know just like a little macadam is like he's got like if it's like a like a really thin may or maybe like a flip form factor the ex TR m oh I see that's right no no that's right ex TR M is what it's gonna be yeah do you think like they're just waiting for it like like Samsung comes up to like Verizon like what about this one thank you do an x-ray change things like eventually something large in the universe is gonna hit planet earth you know what I mean like eventually like Armageddon I'm just saying like these names are inevitably going to go there you think you think you mean they're leading up to Armageddon a philosophical question right when you think of things that are inevitable right you think of planetary objects striking the earth and destroying all mankind it's just like like you don't think like inevitable inevitability is like tomorrow the Sun will rise no it's different than that it's like well I mean I'm just worried about you know weights at Wayside Waifs i okay it's like that's what he meant it's like chaos theory or it's like it's like if somebody's throwing a whole bunch of darts and you're in a room like eventually a farmville eventually a darts gonna hit you well how many guys how many darts you think I'd have to throw before a lot of darts but there's a lot of large bodies in the universe that could hit earth and how does this but what I want to show you think of probable events I don't doubt that that might happen mmm I mean I'll accept it an asteroid or something's gonna slam into the earth and destroy all mankind I can follow deep it well you've seen deep impact yes and Armageddon yes you tape with Armageddon the movie right wait wait wait but what does that actually have to do with the tip with these eye board I'll just say it's not it's not like a premeditated think it's not a strategy on Motorola's part it's there just hurtle you using that as a comparator yes you see much like much like an advanced office much like an ashtray which is on course to destroy life on this point can I just talk so you're saying that we need to send Bruce Willis to destroy Maps on us no you but did you say started ah Bruce Willis has to go up and yes the land on the word XT RM and yes that's perfect plant a nuclear missile in the core of XG RM and he's got to stay up there which means which would be right in between the T in the R so it and then Owen Wilson gets with his daughter right isn't that what after something Ellen Wilson's in that moon that was Ben Affleck cool Bix up there no no one will sit is not in Armageddon my completely confused yeah you're completely confused as he being this ring you could IMDB at all you want but Owen Wilson a felon will says it Armageddon character little but he's not he's not the Ben Affleck he's like what I say to you all Wilson as he do he's like he's like he's the fun he's Owen Wilson he's like Owen Wilson plays plays like he's like a scientist or something but it's Owen Wilson yeah it's like the scientist can I put this can we can we get my computer and up in the video podcast to show people who's gonna make slow circles with my mouse yeah you know I'm sorry I doubted you okay yes we should be published we should move on any of the xiphoid no that's exactly right alright so what's up what so let's talk about more middling Android products mmm quickly I'm so ATT watched LT in New York they put out a bunch of terrible phones already the HTC vivid which Kris reviewed which is it seems like these this first wave of devices is particularly bad but it's always bad like with 3G most of the yeah the Thunderbolt was a bad phone most of the 3d devices were feature phones even know but I'm thinking like the Verizon LT launched devices were not very right so the Thunderbolt was okay the Droid Charge was just okay I just got gingerbread Lacroix I mean if you have if you know anything about technology right now if you know anything it's pretty hard to get fired up about the LG natural state so have you played with it do we have I haven't had a chance Jeff has it you should see this thing so it's LG's like first big kind of baby brought over here it has a 720p LCD display it's actually fairly thin it has absolutely terrible battery life David said it doesn't he last week and the skin on it Oh is a crime he made it a day oh yeah sorry yeah you have been all kinds of guys and doing nothing but Tommy a little worried about you guys it's just ever happen you do nothing to talk all day anything kind of forget on a talk no no okay that happens to the one thing I can do pretty well is talk oh I know I know the more tired you get the worse you're talking becomes ya know with me it's like literally if I do nothing but talk all day by the end of the day like I've run out of words you're losing your yeah which is good because I did that today when we had the podcast we're not getting this phone no I don't think anybody and nobody's paying attention to us does anybody know where the Nitro HD is tonight can I see it alright just you could just walk it over so I say just this skin is so so bad everything about it it's like it's like a bad copy of touches from a while ago you know what mister next Oh hon this screen is seven - Wow yeah whoo yeah it's gross this screen is 720's screen is 720 it's a nice screen they built a nice screen I don't know I mean I've seen worse you've seen a worse skin than that I'll just open the app drawer let me tell you a couple things here it looks a lot like Samsung as the early skin that's what I'm saying they it's like you know Apple nothing's like zooming Samsung years more overly copying them Samsung should sue LG for copying them from two years ago it's like LG didn't even catch up oh I have to say do you know this reminds me of he reminds me of he reminds me of NeoGeo related graphics and then or super cartooning normally that would be a cool thing yeah he kind of reminds me oh you know reminds me of the Neo Geo Neo Geo made a product called the Neo Geo pocket yeah which was a portable it's a handheld gaming system it's actually pretty awesome I have one that's in blue camouflage they release them in a bunch of different colors they had a pocket they had a pocket that was black in my pocket color I have pop color somewhere in a drawer any help they've had icons on it that looked like the icons on this yeah and it's happening it oh you were filming this okay sorry let me keep doing this is there any personal email and this I should be worried about no just David's Tryphon sir yeah there isn't okay good I mean look at this can you see that they get HD games icon yeah it's like full of crap what really it really is to provide that's fine because it's it's by far 18 T's best LTE launch device but it's terrible like it's a terrible phone the new Twitter and it's kind of like this LG should try harder than this so they want to like make a credible argument that they're a smart phone manufacturer which seems as though they do they have to do bet they have to do better than copying Samsung's from like a year ago yeah I don't know it's weird because I kind of liked LG's play early on which was look you know we're not gonna blow you out of the water but we're gonna make a good cheap phone and that was interesting to me but they're definitely not coming that was like the early optimus long I just think why like you walk into a store and you get the iPhone sitting there it's IOT that's the business oh I understand that and but then you've got like a HTC devices and then like that's it it's LT that's your only selling point and 720p display yeah I know but who cares right this I mean I I want I actually kind of like the backing I'm gonna give that a cut the backing here this is six just four by two minutes of play you know the back and looks like though is it looks exactly like the what was the captivate it's like the same kind of idea is Samsung's doing on the back of its fence it's amazing to see you pixel their copy and make a find she makes the pixels a megapixel sensor huh yeah Samsung looking at you let's take it let's do a size comparison here so these are really similar in size and shape Josh Thole and galaxy this is a galaxy in anyway yeah I'm holding galaxy nexus next to the Nitro HD the LG Nitro HD neo x7 oh yeah they actually have a lot in common I mean it's obvious this is you know at some point in the near future itís a the nears wrong I don't know upgrade it's funny we I was at interview with David it's like what do you say about this phone in the end you just have to say don't buy it right that phone is doomed from the start well I just what I was gonna say is it's hard it's hard to if you know anything about technology it's really hard to buy into an LG if a if it's me and I care knowing that what ice cream sandwich is and that it's gotten a lot of really great reviews pretty difficult to buy into an lg device on AT&T that's on and this is on gingerbread yep you know when will that be up it's a it's a first generation LTE device for 18 T's right by the wayside so fast there's no way that'll be upgraded to Ice Cream Sandwich I predict this will not have Ice Cream Sandwich in the next year the charge and this one saying the Droid Charge got Gingerbread last week that was launched device press it like here's the thing gingerbread like Froyo to gingerbread not a big leap not not a huge leap right that was that was those are the versions back to back right and Gingerbread to Ice Cream Sandwich like not even in the same ball like I said it makes it makes the version space gingerbread look like 2.0 a forehand ride blowing on it like do the numbers yeah there's I just think it's I just think it's it's a sucky situation for people and it asked them you know even the venue Pro got a mango update in a reasonable amount of time well this is this is interesting brings up our next topic because the LTE ATT's LTE network in New York is like basically empty he was getting ridiculous speeds on that fan like you know 60 megabits down like insanity yeah I'm sure the other the only guy I'm sure the only guy with DSL in a small town kids really get speedy faster yeah fair point anyway run the they could run a bit of that bandwidth to the 3d town it could have hurt them yeah share it Paul like socialists yeah like socialist motorola and Saudi Erickson both put up statements which is it's a little bit of a different approach I think everybody they know there's a huge backlash you know they know everybody's pissed that they've just bought a huge great new phone and they don't have the newest operating system it's interesting they're actually addressing it yeah they're actually addressing it with Sony Ericsson and Motorola kind of detailed what they need to do before they can get Ice Cream Sandwich on their devices Sony Ericsson is actually promising a pretty tight timeline motor oil isn't as as specific if they're not it's worth coming no statement is like this will take months like what does it matter we're gonna be part of Google anyhow so but so some of the interesting things is Motorola said that additional releases will enable device manufacturers to ship commercial products with Ice Cream Sandwich with Ice Cream Sandwich so uh like nobody's gonna launch project products with the this initial run say they gotta get a fork oh yeah something like that it's I mean it's hard to tell now Sony Ericsson said that Ice Cream Sandwich is really only built with the ti with support for the TI stuff that the Galaxy Nexus has so since they're there phones are running Qualcomm chips they have to do that sort of porting so that's a lot a lot of work for them this is interested it's like what you know it's interesting as they both on the same day it's like very coordinated like there's no way this was an accident right like it's like Google's like okay you guys are allowed to talk about your plan right now or something like that and you know Motorola made the misstep of talking a lot more about how it has to integrate all its Motorola things into the zone yeah differentiate yeah keep differentiating really are necessary its they have to do it features like moto cast Smart Actions that are comprehensive action integral parts of our device experiences we want to make sure we continue delivering differentiated experiences for our consumers with these software upgrades because they wouldn't rather just have this Joni Eareckson mostly just complained about wife Allison camera and that sort of drivers for I will say this what I would I have one thing that I've felt at using the Galaxy Nexus the creeping feeling hmm that no software is being updated for it no one's updating for seven caps no one's that yeah no no apps are being updated no one's updating put 720p displays and no one's updating for any of the functionality of Ice Bowl because there's no nobody's up there's nobody has them and that's how it's gonna be actually been ridiculous to me we're always like hitting these new updates on Google Wallet rollouts like you know there's thousands of places now especially in New York yeah where you can pay for stuff of Google Wallet but there's just like one one and a half phones that can actually we can trim it basically and they sold like 20 of them yeah we can talk about this a little bit but the it's actually on the list but the Verizon Nexus they don't have not going to get they killed Google all right so but we have that unless unclear as to why that is the case because the phone has the functionality and I assume what I mean I assume it would I mean it has an NFC chip let's just skip down and update on the gallery called like Verizon pocketbook but it'll be in competitor if they're doing Isis which their partnership with t-mobile and AT&T I mean it's Princeton character and they say it Rison said an insane thing about not having Google Wallet which is they refer to the Galaxy Nexus is our phone and so their statement is like we pull it up here yeah but they're lying I mean it's a lie that's definitely was made to use Google Wallet I did I did want to say one more thing about the software update one of the most impressive things I've ever seen in technology was when Apple came out with the iPad and you didn't really know right off the bat if that was gonna be hugely successful but a ton a ton of app developers redid their software like for basically day one for the for the iPad and then there was a quick wrap-up and obviously they made the right bet and there was a huge I read the wallets it just I just want to say like that the fact that this doesn't happen on Android is a big problem for Google because that that veracity that Apple of third-party developers know they came out people went to Retina display within months it was it's almost instant and that's it doesn't happen for other people and and Android really needs to start it needs that for for people to really be ready to aggressively upgrade their phone because because if Josh upgrades his phone and it's like well but none of the apps are really any better maybe you can wait around you know that's not an exciting store for Google no no I read the same in a minute wallet recent reports this Verizon research that Verizon's blocking Google Wallet or devices are false Verizon does not block applications Google Wallet is different from other widely available em commerce services which makes me want to die Google Wallet does not simply access the operating system in basic hardware of our phones like thousands of other applications instead in order to work is architected by Google Google Wallet needs to be integrated into a new secure and proprietary hardware element in our phones the NFC chip right yeah the anesthesia it's an app it's an app that accesses NFC and it's not their phone right it's not that sounds really bratty yeah I think the Nexus isn't their fault it's Google's felon it's well is it probably not hard to say I mean when Verizon can block a Google application on a Google device it's supposed to be the flagship device for a Google operating it shows it really should it was really wrong it really shows what little power Google has here at Google I'd say listen here's the deal like we're gonna put Google Wallet on that right now it or not sell it right you think the Apple's gonna ask when they eventually do NFC - Verizon for permission I don't even know why they're bothered at this point they should just sell the thing on LT like LTE like it well they can sell an L they can sell it for Verizon but they can't because you can't get it on Verizon couldn't you but couldn't you can't provision it to her you could provision it couldn't you no there's no SIM card but it won't most of it won't work through the devices thing but if it went through the every way what happened it will happen what happened to our effective government doing effective regulations I don't know then this is an argument for socialist but you won't get voice for this so you could do it maybe you could like hack and else nobody could you but couldn't you put it in there but but but you can get a Verizon device and have it you I can buy like my friend could sell me his phone you tell you his verizon phone yeah right but you couldn't but it won't be until provisioned by Verizon so you would take your friends variety doesn't get it provisioned but you couldn't get an on Verizon right but I mean were right Salah gay teens he was tried you could do it you were able to do it if you were able to somehow hack like the LTE radio to accept a different SIM card from a different Verizon device yes they're tied together I really I wouldn't get voice service because that currently runs over 3G I truly I treat truly is a struggle to not want to just stop using a phone all together because I have to deal with carriers yeah there but the carriers that we have where it's like Verizon why does it even matter you'll sell you're not gonna sell the Galaxy Nexus is not going to be your hottest phone right you've made sure of that mmm okay you made sure that you're not gonna sell a ton of Galaxy Nexus is over the holiday season you're busy pushing all of your other crap and people are gonna buy those and you can do whatever you want why not just do the one thing that Google wants to do with this phone which is let it be a Google phone let it have Google Wallet give that small segment of consumers what they want because it will cost you I mean in the grand scheme it'll basically cost you nothing right it'll be a rounding error and yet Verizon can't do that no they can't they can't give a consumer a phone that is free of their garbage and free of their restriction and that's actually they can't they're burying their assets except for the iPhone right which I have to say hats off to Apple they're really sticking it to him I mean it you know it must be the worst thing in the world for Verizon to have to it you know they need the iPhone on their network I mean how how how hard is it for them to have I mean obviously does it use they're fast I mean we're Jeana right obviously and it's I would imagine it is her best selling phone obviously the reason it came to Verizon so late we know is because they essentially said no way and how we won't do it you're asking which is you're gonna make a pure Apple phone and put it on our network right well they also had some really weird revenue sharing things up front that they have changed I would love to have been in the room when they made the conceit when they when they made the concession to Apple and said we'll do whatever you want please let us have your phone I love to bid in that room at that moment and laughed at them after like the the these executives can be so good at their corporate speak that they can carry it into all conversations and they're like we have the we have a world class leading Network and you've got a great phone and people love it and they just wanted to cut like like doing their spiel in the the room I could totally imagine that and maybe inside of their heart of hearts they're crying right there are world class that they're dreaming you don't dollar bills the pre-loading NFL Mobile will bring to them it almost makes me want to not I mean I've been saying you know I have to send this review you in the back very soon mm-hmm which is painful hmm and and I've been saying I'm gonna get the LTE version of the phone but it almost makes me want to just buy the unlocked version yeah and say screw Verizon and really screw AT&T in a way because you're not kidding them I want if I want to take it over to t-mobile I can't if I want to move to Canada I can shake my phone which are you AT&T huh take this hello Rogers I mean anyhow we can write we ran throughout the carrier's every week we gotta get we get a speed through so the top ad psycho yeah Jam and we got a chance with each other gets more top and a library process science a reach I still film no no broseph on this podcast I mean on this verge cast yeah okay we have more topics just a few just to just a few things so I think we have it on pretty good authority from scoop Ziegler that uh his nickname scoop had on just scoops know that ad team also to invite earlier in the week saying inclusive here it's exclusive have you seen at the arts cluesive lumia 710 on t-mobile I could be less I could not be less excited so this is really this is a very sure I said last week guys is what I couldn't be less excited about there's a Nitra HD I think this is I think this is taking so this is a really vision what's the change kind of announcement topics is it no no I'm looking for it on the site it should be on the front page it was the front page moments ago where is it clicking we published a lot of stuff oh there it is huh we published a lot of stuff since that went up I thought it just went up a few minutes ago No Wow uh no okay I've located this is a really interesting aspect because nokia has been really adamant that they're not going to launch the US and so they can do a proper focus on on the States they can do a halo device that can do differentiation and then instead of bringing the 800 to the United States they're gonna bring the 710 which is the low end product and I don't really know why and actually Chris and I were listening to I know why Stephen Elop today speaking at an investor conference we're soliciting webcast and he was actually really upfront he was like look the United States is different than every other part of the world and he actually said it's different than Finland and it's different than China those were his two examples like that is that is true thank you Steve I'll tell you what I'm gonna go with the lava this one in Finland are really different than America he's got it right he's pulled like that but he was like and we can't take the same products to America we bring the rest the world and then it certainly seems and I I think Chris is very solid on this on this report 710 is coming to t-mobile which is maybe the deepest combination of like failure failed ideas right now it's like you don't want to be on t-mobile it's like you're spinning out of control no it's like you're the phone that no one cares about on the network I feel like t-mobile gets a lot of castoffs like in an Nokia as always a lot of trouble to shoot a Nokia device yeah it was the act like a sixty device they were just pushing like you were doing ads for it yes oh yes yes they were just they were I can't think of the name right now it's like the neutron or the the neuron but I trow then they're out that was a while ago no he wasn't that long ago it was like six months ago they were doing ads for it all right yeah you sound get sound so what it is somebody say the neuron the neuron the neuron they were doing sound it's not April 6 2011 this down I don't think so is it is it an s60 device yeah yeah they were selling like pushing that they had ads on television for that life's yeah by the way one of our Japanese editors corrected us whatever not even here you know what you're saying I got honestly I am going to admit I won't I cannot keep track of every smartphone it comes out for every carrier I mean I have my limits man but I just get I get a picture of Nokia like how about I ruin like every few months they like roll into all the carrier board rooms and pitch some phones and nobody in America wants them and so then they finally drag the tail to t-mobile and asked him oh they'll take it and they took it yeah t-mobile wasn't like yeah we'll take the cool one right they weren't like we'll take the movie eight hundred we're gonna go Lumia 710 you know this is totally off topic but uh I just glanced at Ustream and I think somebody referred you is Neil yeah that's Finnish I kind of like it that's how I check that's how I make every reservation and be able to tell your Patel are you serious Lyle's what else it let's start there's a battle worth it's like it's like a horror what is my what is my name Jake Tapper no I think it's Jay I think it's jack topper Jack topper Jack Tom Jake or Jack and yours is just Paul Miller regular white guy Dave is just Paul Miller yeah anyhow you know dials Patel's it is not in anywhere like a little more Indian I can make a reservation restaurant nobody has any question there they're like oh you're Neil Patel sounds a little ethnic Nilay Patel is like oh so you're Jewish Eli now you live in town you know I pretend baby patellas is a Jewish I know they I'm sir named the next heritage introduce you to most dominating seriously gilt City USA so so what's it in where we have let's wrap it what is it it is a great love it this is all you man you're the next version of Windows in Redmond I don't have a lot to say about it so to say say about why there's a few things you know who should come back for this oh we should get Sean Miller a shot so I shot Hollister rockzilla event we should get Sean Hollister on the line we can't we're not gonna do it now yeah I would like to hear his voice no I actually think Sean Miller should be an employee that we have yeah we got we've got a shot Hollister we have a couple yeah so we can talk about it so yeah I was doing the thing that you were just talking about what's that where I can't talk now yes you ran out I never happened I never have a problem with that no problem I'm great talking here so Windows 8 Papa beta coming in February and the Windows Store the App Store is launching late February apps will be a dollar 49 to start and they can add anything up to $1,000 which is I don't want you to have to thrombi my next version of Photoshop in the app store in the app there's one piece of this that I think is really interesting and this is just a rumor from Paul throt who did five minutes in the virtual that's this week yeah we should actually talk about that but he was on his own podcast and he was talking to Mary Jo Foley and he said well my sources say armed tablets will only run the metro start interface and they won't have full windows and Microsoft has decided that's what they have to do that they have to make a decision we decided the arm tablet the Intel tablets might still do both because they can do but I think them so I talked to I talked to some people Microsoft about this and there's much that we talked about that I can't repeat but there was there is I think there is a this is like a point for them you know and I I started thinking about a pretty deeply there's gonna be two different things yeah there has to be two different things I just don't think you should be called I just don't think they should both be Windows things right I mean I think that you I think the tablet should be something else I think there should be an iPad yeah that's me know I think but I think they should you be caught I actually think it'd be really exciting if Microsoft said we've got something new this isn't the Windows that you know this isn't even really Windows like this is something else this is brand new it's for tablets it's for devices that are kind of football or as adamant that everything is Windows I think it's a mistake guess what is in Windows hey Xbox guess what we're talking about Xbox and Windows Phones like Windows box how great would that be you know they toss it around I got one for you yeah look everywhere is Windows X yes that's pretty good windows act like a tablet and the the the Xbox run Windows X yeah the desktop and laptops and then Ronnie you could say oh you I would even say Windows Phone X ba you call X start calling X boxes whatever it is Windows X tablets Windows X and then everything else is like Windows classic so what does a Windows 8 right you know and then Windows they should also do Windows enterprise which has nothing to do with Windows 8 and they don't and it's like whatever the enterprise needs it's just looks like actually Windows and it just XP well you know actually there was some interesting reports but that's that's actually not so inaccurate the thing about the enterprise and XP there were some interesting reports about you know like analyst reports and you know IT strategy reports where Microsoft has a big job of selling Windows 8 when it comes out next year because all of the big corporate environments have already done Windows 7 and they're like tired like it was a big transition well the seven they've installed telling you graphics cards pretty don't wait for a Windows 9 or whatever that which will all run in a browser right like we've allowed a browser to the cloud like a browser running Silverlight that's connected to the client that's right right but like even like basic stuff like you know an office gets updated like I know I know like IT consultants and they say things like when I update office to the ribbon interface like we had to do tons of training was really expensive to teach more stupid all the admin and like you know executive people in the world it's actually funny because rim is new office ribbon is designed for stupid people it's UI design to like be blatant about how to use all the function you start that's for awhile but they know they don't want to learn anything the other day actually today what oh yes you're unstuck loose and he's losing his on Windows 7 ribbon I think they much improved paint in Windows 7 I have to say but the ribbon interface is horrible it's just horrible it-it's a try to find say that these are like for us try to find say it's like boys get smaller thank you thank you you know I honestly you know it needs another one you know it's why we had to sub in the BT Miller Ross as who I love and I'm the peach reliever Thomas B BT Miller so now you know a little bit I haven't touched my xbox in a while because I I do all my games on PC now on windows and the moon nice oh you just rebuilt your windows right right right why can I say I just what I would like to just can I just say I just want to make sure everybody understands but with just what just happened right yeah Paul Miller yeah who built right yeah and regularly uses right a Windows machine right just said peleg but he said paint you know he said he said it was paint you were tape with the ribbon yeah the ribbon in Jeff you said it's like poison and the ribbons coming everywhere two windows 8 on the desktop I think is like by the way that there's like a forum topic that started like day the first day that we launched and it's like still going people are like jumping on hilarious podcast combat all I was saying is I don't care for a lot of the interface elements and that they are slowly killing me that's all I mean it's somebody you don't need slipping a little strychnine in or confit ever you don't have to eat three meals a day a poison to die that's right I need a little bit a little bit of poison like just a drop can do it next thing you know funeral for I'd say you know it's funny because I don't think they should call the Xbox Windows X I don't know I should think they need to get away from the word windows entirely I think they need to say this is our new opera cases think of the expert I think Windows Phone is I've said this for a long time but I do believe calling it Windows anything has hurt them in the phone's face right I think they they called it like Metro Metro Microsoft Metro yeah that's like this is our new this is our new it's phone it's nothing it's like it isn't Windows it's something totally different because it is in Windows it's something totally different they could say yeah we brought you know just like you know with the iPhone they were like yeah we meets Mobile Safari but it's iPhone OS it's not Oh s10 right I mean yeah it's you know this kind of variation or whatever but at the very beginning this there was a tie said but they and then it didn't have a name for four years remember well you people just called it iPhone OS but even when I was on the iPad they called the iPhone OS up until the iPad they caught it and they change it they changed it with iOS 4 did they yep I thought was a three is it with here's whenever they release the iPad somebody's sure I'm sure here can we I don't remember I'll be honest I don't know I can't keep track of everything every time they change it it's three it was three that's what I thought okay well I stand corrected you stay corrected there you I do want to say the the shift to this thing is really over my face I just realized it's like if this is true the arm is going to be completely different it's kind of weird because the very first time Microsoft showed us Windows running on arm they showed us that you could run Microsoft Office Spa I just trying to get a clear shot it's getting clear shot I just realized it by hole it's like I'm like a yeah your head is blocking our camera now we talking about house more important oh yeah you're right sorry who is more important Paul you tell me I don't know something I asked myself every did something I asked myself every day yeah who's more important Paul Miller or Josh Topolsky that's kind of the thought that way but Paul's answer is B team Miller B team yeah not he's like not B team is I know one thing team don't have to worry about that guy Ross what's his name oh yeah sure saerom yeah all right we should wrap it up sure wrap it up that's it so we should talk about what's happening tomorrow goodbye oh yeah tomorrow big stuff exciting stuff so great I'm getting my hair cut yeah that's it talk to you guys later you're getting shoes I think that's cool so tomorrow second episode of on the verge which is our video big video show that we do we're it's in lower Manhattan 7 o'clock tomorrow night you can find information about it on the website right now but we have a pretty interesting guest we have John Gruber from daring fireball who at times we've been I have been friendly with ya I we've had some contentious we've had some words to me a good chef I like him a lot da he's a good guy smart guy I mean I don't agree with him on a lot of things I do agree with him on other things though yeah he buttered us up today he had some I pray he said something he said some very nice stuff about us today I just I'm hoping that he's being sincere and he's not just feeling like you know he's later'd that we invited our guard is down I'm gonna show but tomorrow he's gonna post say about how terrible they brought in anyhow but he's a smart guy he had a lot of really interesting stuff to say I mean I don't agree with him a lot of people do agree with him it when when you talk about people who have a clear allegiance to a brand yeah he's that he's the Paul Roth of Apple or as Paul throughout the group brought was Microsoft well whatever you know I mean I just want to be the b-team Miller of Google B team Google anyhow it's gonna be interesting we're talking about the industry we've talked to him about Apple a post Steve Jobs Apple yeah we're gonna talk about Android I'm sure yeah he's a man with a lot of things to say he is not a very actually very smart thing he's opinions that word I like people with opinions yeah no matter what they are even if they're hateful just beat everybody B team Miller fine cool not a big deal I'll respect you many people asking I don't think we're gonna be doing a lot of stream we're not live stream it yeah we're not live streaming and I don't know if we're going to for the new show I mean I there are things that are cool about doing it live and there are things that are not cool like for us doing it live means not messing it up in any way the scene are for now our first our pilot episode was like kind of a very much like alright let's stop reset we need to fix some things yeah I think that the next show will be we probably will do it straight through live I just I just I just you know I think right now we've got so much that we're juggling it's like an added pressure to do a live stream right and you know we're gonna turn it around the next day right what Monday I don't think so saturday Saturday I think we should do on Saturday yeah saturday is the day after Friday Saturday's typically the day after Friday yeah Sunday comes after that yep usually usually I just think this fun the podcast we do it live and it's rambling and we talk to the fat room and we do it for two hours people are like three hours that about the in just are you guys watching you stream you see what's happening in there they're not happy about the idea of Monday so it's got to be Saturday yeah sorry everyone sorry but you're working Saturday it's happening people are really somebody just said josh is hot I like that person here I respect them I don't think they have very good vision but I like what they had to say all right that's it we should wrap up that is the verge cast for the for the week if you'd like to get in touch with us you can email us at podcasts at the verge comm you can leave a comment a comment you can leave a comment in the comment section of the post when it goes up we always love that you can also find us on Twitter it's a new service that everybody's using we talked about Twitter we're not gonna talk about only one sweater he got a redesign yeah it's nice don't like the Android app yeah you can find us on Twitter the verge is at Virg Nilay is reckless it's me Paul is future Paul I'm Joshua Topolsky Ross Miller is oh no Rosco I hate that Twitter to a man it's so hard to think it's like bingo for me yeah oh no Rosco that's Oh H I know no.1 s ro s CEO you think there's an e on the end there ain't there a TD on yeah that's like that's like the day that's like a follow-up to mobis everything it might be had a record card everything begins with an e or a song yeah the follow-up is you think there's any on the end and that's it that's it for us we're done right rock and roll you're like why what did i trick joh Anna doesn't jump together she's actually God she left the office really make sure she doesn't come leave her house waiting get into a cab show up at the door come in and stay rockin a roll right before you do yeah she doesn't do you have to say Rock a roll now no they can't just cut that in you know Tran is trans here still trans here trap will you be able to cut that in said no alright that's alright that's it rock'n'roll