Gadgetory

hey and welcome to the verge cast for the week of March 4th 2013 I'm Josh Topolsky I'm Paul Miller Nilay Patel loading the disembodied voice of so we are so let me just explain what's going on so we are in my office at my unfurnished on as far as my like prison office at our new office in midtown Manhattan and we're still setting up our studio which doesn't we don't have our all of our livestream yes I've set up there yeah so we're we're doing a hangout from my office in the corner I mean Eli is sitting across from me yeah well as if I was interviewing him for a job and Paula they really want to work here although sitting off to the side I'm taking notes here Paul's taking notes just roll through the give them to people you accept the internet see you and then you can roll hey yeah see Millie beautiful John Carter the actor is not the guy no no he's the easy you're right so the product of by the way product of the of the 90s yeah Taylor yeah a name that needs to be struck out of exist tip the tool but all those give everything better Tim the tool man Taylor JT T there's a fine name it's a fine regular low the Hanson brothers a Taylor because that would make a lot of sense I'm just going to assume so anyway so we're back here on the verge cast and we are we have a lot of stuff to talk about and we're excited to be bringing it to you but but but not next week not the next verge cast but the one following that will be all set up in our new studio yeah Ross is oh yeah Ross is also in the room in the corner where he belongs even a bad Miller you've been a horrible person and you're gonna pay no next week we'll have a new studio I mean I was just down there it looks beautiful if you watched top shelf today yeah you saw some comments before I go top shelf they think are sooo dark like to to emotionally get you is too happy watch some of the episodes arable Sun Wow getting to a checkup from where my cuz we have to money I hold it like this is this better so it's any better do you want me to go to the this is cool I feel like I feel like I feel like Jerry Lee Lewis my goodness gracious great balls of fire now very a 15 year old married he's like 15 your cousin not everything is the original Nutty Professor right and stop doing this he's gonna switch us right okay so we're good okay so we're just gonna make a quick Mike change here because I'm having some sort of Mike problem shiny you just Mike for now yes hold on guys I'll be right back with you so the kid Neil and I just talked yeah how's it gone it's pretty good that's left for the Internet it's alright a lot of here's I just wanted a Witcher The Witcher 2 you know it was pretty complicated I am writing craft potions I can that's what I've always wanted to do nobody can hear you talk Josh you just talking Josh is maybe say the Oh what up Internet now you live in direct MTA fares can you believe I woke up one morning I turned out on poor now dude I've been listening to your comedy act yeah I got I've been listening deal with that I loves New York yeah it's 93 92 3 now I was at I store know it's ty the guy's name is ty and he does a morning show on my pop pop radio station he comes on a 5 a.m. yeah and he is so excited to be alive yeah and he talks about his fiancee or his wife or somebody you know Beyonce which talks about we start over let's start over yeah hey and welcome to the verge cast for the week of March fourth 2013 I'm Josh T'Pol's I'm Paul Miller and we're Virg Cassie and I already explained this the first time we did this but I'm going to explain it to you again because that's how much I like you and care about what you know we're verge casting from my office my unadorned empty office in the corner of our new building which we just moved to in midtown Manhattan and our studio is not ready yet still being prepped next week still being massaged and practice on next week we got Janice and yeah so we're very chaste for my office and we're doing it via Google hangout and we're also doing like an open mic very cool so I wrote a song about yeah future you wrote a song about is I can't your job Carter slash Lauder now Paul is the only person who liked the John Carter movie right you liked it no it's pretty bad you did I read the book it was terrible I was so rooting for you know here's the credit here comes the lake fan here's the problem Mars has two thirds the gravity of Earth you jump on Mars you don't go like 50 harder to jump no it's easier to Joey's gonna jump but let's say it's but it only has a third less gravity wait are you saying your biggest problem ours October but the ones I will not allow was that but you're supposed it's only a third less gravity yeah it really made it seem like it was like half as much gravity and the fact that he was just walking there's alien race is battling for nothing you know what I didn't see it can you please stop eroding the plot of ground Carter oh yeah see it I'll say but you have to watch it there's a great any other time springing to read the story about like how that movie failed but he's not sorry with their first trailer which oh here I want to correct they think it's kind of cool I want to correct this myth so John Carter was horrible promoted right unmitigated here's the thing though I read that article and it's all about how nobody knows what this no one's ever read this book right nobody knows about this they know don't hear the movie they the trailers are bad and they don't know the intellectual property it's like a triple whammy it's never gonna succeed but but i but meanwhile meanwhile we know i've read the book yeah i've loved loved the director i've seen all over the trailers multiple times went to see the movie and it was horrible and it deserved to fail yeah but sure it was terrible let's just say it was a bad movie whether you whether you watched whether you watch I hate the setup by the way I'm really uncomfortable right now I want everything why don't you look at us okay yeah I don't know where to look that's part of the problem I guess okay I don't think that it was a bad movie I don't know why we're talking about blowing it out I have the new I have the new game yeah I have it I'm on the list you know about it what do you want to know who doesn't read Facebook very often this doesn't seem like a big change damn it how many how many photos of me lies relatives can you find go right go everyone's graph search can you grab some photos of photos while you do that the top of Nilay Patel of the photos by photos of me and Nilay Patel yeah that's what shows nude photos of the hotel taken in Brooklyn yeah riding a horse how does it had a big event they said we're gonna make it more like our mobile I wish I could screenshot and they said something really weird which I thought was interesting for Facebook which was we are a container we are we don't make content we're container of other people's content yeah and we want to show that as beautifully as well it's like everywhere and then dr. Berg's lion was we're want to be the best newspaper in your life or something everybody wants to be the best newspaper yeah cuz newspaper what a great business to aspire do you want to be the new crumbling local news I just really ups my New York it was called a portal yeah known for this you go there that was your homepage Yahoo get all your news get your weather maybe look up movie time see how many emails you serve your friends maybe open up an I am window short scores yeah I just think you know if Facebook wants to be in the portal business hmm yeah the social portal that's what they are that's what they are I'm seeing by the way I can see beyond you a new chair for my office that is being built yes yeah I just think everybody wants to be they want to make their spot inescapable right this is just Facebook's like next move to try to get you to keep looking at Facebook as much as possible yes sticky but what's really interesting to me and we were talking about what's going on was its it this is a second big product launch Facebook's had yeah tablets which it's about Facebook's core business but where their numbers are going down right yeah they know that people are using Facebook on phones and tablets more but they're like all this relentless focused on the desk I mean I think I think it's a really tough I think it's really tough and Ellis just wrote this huge thing about how teenagers aren't using Facebook and I have to say I think it's really tough to be a social network on a platform that isn't hold into you know it's all about being in apps you know and not every you're not gonna have I mean you don't want to go into an app a Facebook app to use other apps you know it like you want to Instagram like you're gonna do go Instagram you know you're gonna you want to tweet something you're tweeting like if you want to post your I don't know how many people are really posting to Facebook that often there are now ways to do it from within iOS from within Android that doesn't require that you go to Facebook to do it so you're not coming to see their ads right not seeing their their content they want you to see and I think it's like kind of a big problem for them so I think yeah and I think what this is all about is it they're making Facebook nicer to look at so when you go to it you're like you see more of the photos yeah you see all this content people are can you tell me the basic what did they change they made newsfeed they made their newsfeed they made it more visual they like change the way it's the split they they move where you're like chat window is like they moved your chat and a bunch of other stuff to like a left ya know it's actually a little bit more like the Android app it's a lot of the iOS I said it where it has like a slide I showed all the screens and I don't want to move to a parody of these well that's logical because if they can teach you how to use it on the desktop then you'll know how to use their mobile a level of comfort and it is a better design like it looks better I have to say is a serif font for headlines which is totally weird most of my are like a good number of my friends don't use Facebook or like they use it very very sparingly my sister is probably like two thirds much like the gravity of Mars she's like two thirds never on like quit Facebook she's like oh I got Facebook back for now and then she quits it again right but I see my friends scroll through Instagram all the time well they do it they don't pull up Instagram and check it in the other way yeah they just sit there and look right and I just like that it solves a lot of like things that when you want to know about this slide a bar over or when it's a graph like glass or text all over the place create a text messages you're getting email you're on Twitter like it's nice to just have a place where it's like thing is happening there's a photo of it I have my discrete group of friends yeah and it's like really basic it's really and I do think like you know as we as Facebook tries become in all of these things like Twitter is a little bit pushing into this like all-encompassing like social network I think we are starting to people are going like well I don't really want the all-encompassing this is overwhelming it's overwhelming and it's just I don't order has a problem at all right they've moved further and they move further and they're doing crazy thing now and more snippets part of an article right but I think do are they're very comfortable with Twitter because like unless you're in a small class of Twitter users it has tens of thousands of followers you pretty much to know everybody whose fault you can look at the list there they are all these people but if you follow two minute this has happened to me if you just are naive and follow too many people I've done too many German requests no no quitter you on Twitter if you follow too many people it gets really overwhelming yes and it's it stops at a content coming in that album is Facebook's Pro knows about it's come in I think people just don't want to share to the I think people are afraid of Facebook I think when the data goes on a Facebook there's a little bit of that I think there's certain types of sharing the Facebook it seems to be perfect for I mean some of the things that I've seen are like events like family events weddings babies like there's these things where it's like you want to have a bunch of photos you want people to be able to go oh my god that's a cuter I can't believe you wear that hat or whatever and like event it's like really good for it I think for individual outings we've started to acclimate to like a more of a more of like a micro yeah blogging sort of thing where it's like you want little spurts of you want to know a little bit like here's a picture from last night or here's like I'm wearing this jacket or whatever where it's not like here's a gallery of things or here's like a bunch of texts about it or let's have a conversation about it son was like let's just I just want to share this one thing with you then get on with my life right I feel like in a way that's like vine and snapchat have are both kind of reinforcing this idea that people want to they want to get in get out and get all their lives III think it's the exact antithesis of Facebook where you don't want to live there yeah of that it's opposite of that frictionless sharing thing that Facebook does so yeah which by the way the other day i was listening to literally for work i was listening to a selection of really really bad pop music and people were like cali choice or other people started like tweeting cuz they could see my scrub my scrub and and it was like four or five tweets like oh yeah listening to you know britney spears whatever i'm like yeah i am but like i don't see how that's actually a very useful interaction like what i would I realized is like this isn't it's not doing anything for me except like people are like oh do you mean the information that's shared passively by passive it passive sharing right and all-encompassing are two things that I think we are discovering are somewhat less desirable Facebook assumed they would be some other some other passive stuff is stuff that I want to look back on like I know people are talking about how the you know Instagram stuff is geo tagged yeah so it can be helpful you know like like first as my sister went to England a year or so ago and you know took a bunch of photos and I'm think that's all geo tagged so if I wanted to like find places she'd been to I probably do that and that and and and and I'm really interested in stuff like you know like Foursquare getting to know like if my friends like restaurants and things like that right finding recommendations but I don't need to know that like do you think of like Yelp and Foursquare's discreet things for those right yeah you think of like Yelp is like a discrete you go find that's another thing where you're you're choosing very specifically I want to share the specific type and amount of data I also think this part of Instagram where it hasn't blown up I mean it's huge it's huge but it's not a billion people know it is it's a billion people okay it's huge but it's not right is that it is that it's Trimble it's not like nearly but you can share like you don't remember when everybody's pissed their parents came onto Facebook yeah not everybody's parents are an Instagram yeah not yet so you can share with kind of a small nap chats like trending or vine or whatever whatever your parents is isn't on every day is it on it depends on if you think of your parents as a singular or it's actually really good for it like how many parents are there if you have more than one I I have one parents I can't I can't tell anything to my parents without my parents knowing oh you have a they're like and they're like yeah a unit that where you can't share secret if I call them on the phone they and they get together in a room and talk to me Austin yeah my parents love to get on the phone too close to 90 well this is several months ago so I've got a surprise probably probably 90 million monthly active hi more registered Instagram is growing I think Yelp I think the point about life what's the billion think the point about recommendations like food recommendations is like I think you know in the same way that I don't know I don't like want I don't want to have like an Apple car and an Apple phone and like an Apple house and like an Apple camera like I like to have I think they're well I mean I don't want yeah I don't necessarily want to have all of the same thing I don't think that everybody's all like that Apple would be good at making every product I don't believe that like I don't think most companies be good at making every product you know Apple really sucked at what making social network yeah ok great data making social network bad at making web stuff yeah I think bit bad at email and calendaring stuff really not bad at maps and by the way and we've talked about this a lot but it is that eCos address book applications but yeah it is that that lock in really good at making faux leather apps Facebook wants to do a desktop phone would like to be we'd like to be there for everything but I think what human beings really want is like the things that are best for those this and that's what they're gonna use and like people I think gravitate and like the simplicity of a single use application because you know what it's do you know what's doing and you know that like the data is it's all meant for that yes you know like Instagram and there's not there's not more to the story you shared a picture you maybe said something about it that's the it says where you are that's the entire interaction it so single-use makes total sense super easy to process it's like when you're presented with this myriad yeah these myriad options and ways you can share and ways you connect things it's like I think it becomes overwhelming I think the moment has a little problem for Facebook I think they're both a portable of course are portable portable they support they were giving a portal and I think it is so here's dangerous so that's the I also very very portable but that's what they did space what they said we want to be in the newspaper for you yeah but people have newspapers they don't and they don't want to read people to wanna read The Verge on Facebook they want to see a link from the verge and they're not like pulling a hoe please join but they were I think what they're saying is this is I think all these single-use apps are great but I think their point is we can pull in all that right we can pull in Instagram it's what so happy and so predominant yeah all these other networks oh he has to connect they don't you don't want to open up your facebook browser into your Facebook feed and then get off the internet that's not what people do and that's what they're going to do and then like apps if apps are any indication and phones are any indication like they're also not going to do it on their mobile devices right like it just isn't how we want to interact with it I want to sit down at your like world terminal experience world stuff and then they turn it off it's like you can purchase it you wake up at the mortgage filter on your you turn on your like Facebook terminal yeah Facebook PC or whatever it watches you for the rest of the day like Facebook it's all it's pulling it all the stuff like was like it's like you would be mistaken if you felt that that's what Google was doing because it is right you know those are their googles to an end it's it's right Google's building plus is this layer and it's like it was like not working well that's the so we're talking from our perspective of you know and a lot of people we know perspective of wanting variety and always you know choosing you know like I'm not gonna do my photos on Facebook but I'm good in though I'm doing on Instagram right but it totally still makes sense for Facebook to cast as wide of a net as possible yeah absolutely makes sense for them teachers I'm assuming this reporter I don't know very soon because you're angry it's because wrong wearing headphones can't hear ourselves I didn't hear you know Adrienne's she's writing a report in the metaphor that was in it I was reading just reverse that Anna was Facebook wants to be bigger than a container they want to be it's it's it's it's right its own its facebook wants to be the social network of record yeah just went up so in there she says Facebook wants to be not just the biggest container but like the container ship I'm worried you've got all these single-use apps and Facebook is where you you go and you can see all the things that people are sharing you can see all the photos for Instagram that they're using but they will be so big that companies like Twitter will have to integrate your photos go on Facebook yeah they do I know they own it but they took yeah you think should you answer that all or nah I think you can disconnect it yeah well I mean kids because cuz I am as a lot of you afraid to God okay if you're like I'll see people they're like they like this Instagram photo and the Instagram photo appears in their feed like if you like something but I think you have to specifically tell to do that I'm not really sure by the way this is why Facebook is a problem I don't know really know if the Instagram stuff will appear automatically or if I can turn it on and off or if it's just on certain actions like lights like that's the worst not not know Facebook has turned into like some weird combination windows its windows it's an operating system its XP where it's like what how do I make this thing stop appearing how do I change this I turn off Mac where do I adjust the time like I don't understand double-click the no but you put an old person in front of XP for the first time to ask them to do anything that involves changing anything and you put it over in front of Facebook the first time immediate dong pics here's what I want to know and then I want to change topics but here's what I want to know since Facebook has changed its search yeah I've done more Bing searches because you've just been letting because I'm like because I'm like trying to research that it can't do and I'm delete ok fine bings traffic has got to be like skyrocketing right now yeah it has to be it's gotta be I want to search on Facebook it automatically also searches if you if you do search on Facebook so search let's say like hold on I'm gonna can't type hurt a lot let's just say um Paul Miller press there's another Siri button on that line offline okay so Siri 100 is 10 so if I buy a shoe button Paul Miller offline news okay if I search for this like he doesn't find anything and so this brings up a way it's like web search and so like it's another click over and it kicks you over to Bing either and you agreed to do that on a regular basis sometimes I just do it like out of habit like I want to see what results it pulls up because I'm like looking for it yeah and it's happened a number of times and I'm like oh yeah I just Bing but that's be the best thing in the world for being I'm sure I mean I think Microsoft got an incredible slam dunk or or Bing is just really confused cuz being is always having the search for random people that it doesn't know yeah I don't know I don't know the people are using uncle Steve they're probably not using but I have to have to imagine there's some kick up this hey Bing Bing Bing it okay so what else we have topic was uh well you went to Ted oh yeah I went to wrote a feature would you say you're an influence I would say that no I would say that well my Klout score I think I've been active at Ted Ted is so so I went to Ted all last week and I'd never been out only seen the TED Talks online which everybody has seen and everybody loves right if you'd like to hear smart people talking you like bite-sized intelligence it's like it's like it's like you know I'm not going to college I'm not gonna learn this thing all the way through but this person is gonna like make me feel that I have yeah like that I can now speak with authority on you know the maybe in rituals oh it was so much racial of fraud based on a 20 minute talk is so much authority so I know everything I know about Dinah so what I did here's what you don't here's what they don't give you you don't see talks on is like the Ted experience like what it's like to be at Ted and what I and what I realize is that at Ted it's it's like you're in this and I use this metaphor the snowglobe metaphor but I you it's like you're in this world with all these people really smart really talented really rich really famous like the most famous most rich most talented weirdest group of people yeah you'll you know that may ever assemble which to their credit is like I gotta say it's kind of amazing that you can get you know Ben Affleck and Bono and Bill Gates and me and I know I'm just like random like journalist guy there and like all these weird you know I meant like a ton of journalists they're in a ton of artists you know Amanda Palmer where she's known more Rowley Amanda Palmer and you know that's her that's her that's her name yeah see you're so I'm so now that I've been there so has no one by the way not listed as Amanda poem or on any of the Ted stuff that's just a man upon but you know like these you know all these weird people together and and like performers young musicians jugglers jugglers no they have like an alien dance crew I met I met movie directors likes directors their movies that you know that you have seen that are like you love no you specifically really yeah yeah and like so it's just weird understand of JOHN CARTER know what Harry Potter like Harry Potter so I'll just say I'm gonna say it's a music movie means leave it at that recent recent music movie anyhow so but the pitch perfect know also is my plan is that you're in the magic way you're in this bubble love for as it like is amazing but the thing that's weird about Ted that you don't know the I'm just gonna say this really quickly and then we can know all their lives they eats like you're in this bubble with all these people and you don't really leave you're in this convention center you're in this arena for like a party you go to the aquarium for a party at night they have parties and weird things and all of the hotels like for hotels this and it's like in a mile radius and you don't you're not supposed to go really you're supposed to be there the whole time yeah and it just becomes like this weird like get up at like 8:30 in the morning and like off to some sessions then you're like mingling and eating all day and then like party at night and then like cage match it's like and it's like 2:00 in the morning you're like I'm still with all these same people attack like what's going on like we're still hanging out and every is like talking about the ideas and it's just this weird like utopian like this yeah micro world that's created for a week and then it's gone lame is no I kill you damn dropped all those other assholes well you're oh those are people who are not-- so you're not supposed to talk about who's there oh director of Never Say Never who's an awesome dude really nice guy I shouldn't have said that I'm gonna be banned from dad for life now that's the other thing they're like scary though but they will ban you and Matthew I mean it just sounds like some weird combination of like a floating island nation state yes plus like oh really Randy arrived it is a very autonomous zone which is the the anarchist a writer Hakim Bey coined in 1991 which is basically like this kind of like this this nation state that rises up that's like seeking secret it's a place of lying sad a you know some kind of like sort of traveling ban it's like it's like Bernie man Bernie man but like really organized Bernie man burning man meets like andreas fascists burning kind of yeah it's like it's like super elite Burning Man with like but with a point mm-hmm Bernie's like but like I got some mescaline let's go out to the desert no this is like this is like I got some ideas let's go to Long Beach yeah you know it's moving to Vancouver next year which by the way I think is even more isolated Cooper kid yeah which i think is like even more isolate its like there is no LA you can drive to you know the closest city is like Victoria or something Thank You ver and then like Victoria is like not too far away but like there ice went to Whistler which is that same Vancouver that was a pain in the ass Whistler is where they're gonna have Ted active no that's so hard to get to is hard enough like hard enough to fly into Vancouver and they you have to drive to Whistler and you just want to kill yourself beautiful so you see Whistler ski town right yeah okay so anyhow but it was really interesting and I have to say like it's no accident you have an opportunity to go to Ted I recommend it but what the way I ended up on is that like it is people like a lot of people that week especially people who were new we're like this is kind of like a call yeah you know cuz everybody who works there is like kind of preaching the gospel Ted I interviewed June Cohen who's Chris Anderson's right-hand man and she's like speaks very emphatically and very excitedly about like the ideas that are gonna be said at Ted and like you feel like they're caught up in the excitement of the almost kind of a religious feeling change the world we're gonna change the world yeah and it is but it is like it is like a theist cult is how I started thinking of it and like a like a cult of questions right like like if and I say this in the piece if religion is like we got it we got the like you want it you want you want to know what's going on in the universe like here's the deal then this is like you want to know what's going on in the universe like we don't know but here's some possible ideas like here's some thoughts on it and you know maybe one guy says one thing that's like again we're opposite of the guy to me sounds like like a weird island nation state crossed with like the hippie assad's College of the Northeast yes exactly it's like it's like and you never leave and everyone's there yeah College quad but like with much older people yeah like a frisbee yeah but there was like that going on there were people like there was I saw no no I'm not kidding I think there I think there's definitely somebody hockey exactly and it was like people like meeting and eating and just moving and there's coffee everywhere coffee everywhere there are so many coffees they pour over coffee like whatever you want like 15 different types of freshly brewed teas like crazy teas from like the mountains of China and they're like the people there are all really no no so I'm like really thirsty yeah right for it oh look I'd like to move on I read my piece it's got insight ed the smartest bubble in the world oh that's not a factoid that is a factoid it's not a fact dumb bubble that would be you know no offense but the Teletubbies home is kind of a topic we ran a bunch of weed it'd we had an Elizabeth spires piece which I've now told us how her name is pronounced I've heard many yeah many variations right but she ran a piece on on on this kind of weird backlash so actually I want to talk about I want to talk about that I don't even tell you about what it is that's fine there's something here that I think is very very interesting something in the room he's got something good to say Josh say what the backlash is but I want to go ahead so she ran he saw on this backlash about rumor some IOC of Yahoo saying everybody has to come in the office and it's actually very interesting that we ran it us this site ran it we have now moved into this office and I'm like watching our team Cheney very egotistical pointer Mike okay you just had a baby I just had a baby I think what is saying in a roundabout way what me a lie saying is that it was an interesting it was interesting that last week we moved into our new office where we were like hey everybody come to the office yeah peace we have a new big office that we want people to be at and and Yahoo copied us know I know I haven't been on the internet but I'm just guessing the backlash is that she decided to do this because she's a woman there are like no the backlash is there's all sorts of different levels of backlash but there a lot of it is like the tone is right a lot about like her being a woman and not in the very specific kind of woman and then she there was this interview where somebody asked her she was a feminist and she said like that she wasn't and that's like cause all this hubbub and there's just like the tone of a lot of the conversation about her and Sheryl Sandberg like there's never been a woman before but in the tone of the conversation is all very confusing right so Sheryl Sandberg ER is a CEO of Facebook put out a book called lean in which is all about how women should be how women lead can women lead right and in her recommendations is Elizabeth points out our piece are like super non-controversial it's like women should be more aggressive should ask for what they want they should know that there's pay inequality in America yeah they should demand to get paid more like it's not do all of these stuff that if a man had written the book and said the same things people would just be either they would ignore it or they would say right great points but when it's but when it's a woman writing it all of a sudden people are like how could she yeah how dare are you so Elizabeth's piece addressed how both of these women are being judged on like different criteria than men but the the Marissa Mayer thing to me is like yeah it was a broken company like it doesn't work it's like full of people who aren't doing anything good yeah it's not making money they're not innovative for her to say you all have to come into the office and we're gonna sit in this room and like work together to figure out how to make our company better is the least controversial thing and I'll say this and I'll say this the second that I heard the announcement it seemed obvious to me having worked at a company having worked at a company before which is very wander around dreaming where where yeah where where where there were a lot of people who worked there and a lot of them seemed really incompetent and like they weren't doing their job and people would like phone literally phone it in and also figuratively phone it in and when you get to a certain size I think it can be very hard to see who's like great and who isn't that's it like despite your evaluations which can obviously be like yeah you know these like written evaluations that these big companies do I think that I do feel that there is a there is a motivating factor here and I think we I feel like we wrote Ben might have written something about I can't remember when she first made this announced to get rid of the people it's like it's really about weaning the people who aren't great performers but oh she's trying to figure out and there's like how could you do this and the truth is like how could you not the bedside manner sucks that's the problem like the truth is like he could have probably done we'd been done in a more tactful way so hey wait Luca three things so first she had to don't just shut up shut up four three three things well the first year really fast so she had two metrics that she used one was that she has all these remote workers and she noticed that many of them were like not even logging in to the VPN right so she these people are off doing whatever at home they're not like on Yahoo's time right second is there's like a lot there were a lot of people getting paid by Yahoo I like founded startups yeah which is like a huge problem right yeah and rate or great problem a lot of people doing Bing searches and a lot of people doing banging banging and then the third one which is what Ben was saying was this is a really great way to essentially do layoffs without having to wait right because because you'll find people who are like I'm not doing this I'm out of here or yeah the people won't actually live up to the requirements and your second point because I think when you have a big company you have a lot of deadweight be also most of your good ideas are in the brains of those people who want to do startups yeah and like you know I worked at a company called AOL and interns that we left if I had an idea for a startup you know what I would I could not have done is had that idea implemented at my company if I had an idea for start-up I would have to quit my job and go make that company right cuz it and and what you want is you want smart people to do a start-up inside of your business I mean that's what I write Google and there have been a lot of ideas that I really liked at Yahoo that haven't ever like you know Yahoo essentially should be Instagram right now if they done Flickr well you know right well I mean this is like a corporate culture thing like it's hard to break off it's easy to say yeah this thing like Flickr is like all-encompassing I mean just do not get in the weeds on that but it gets a little bit hard to say like they have a lot of great products and they've had a lot of great ideas and they always die because they don't quite go all the way through with them right I haven't seen any good ideas for a while but like I remember like three or four or five years ago a lot of cool stuff would come out of Yahoo and they'll be honestly I think there is something on the internet that that I'm sorry I was it'd be a little I just wanna like take a break on that point for just one quick second I do think that like people who are native to the internet and use the Internet have a tendency and a desire to move away from old products that have been improved upon and I don't think they have any allegiance to those products beyond their utility it's almost something that in their lives and anti legions because you can't understand that the old thing could do it right I mean I mean at the end of the day like people who are like in love with technology in the internet who use it or maybe not even a lot with it but use it need it there their goals are like they're beholden to like I think for the most part finding like the best tool do the things they want them to do and if they think it's one if it's like and there's so much competition and so many new things on the internet all the time that if there's one thing that you don't like about the old thing you're just gonna go like I'm gonna use the new thing like repairs you know like especially if it's free mm-hmm you know Yahoo is free to use like if something free comes along and it's better you're like I'm just gonna do that that's how Google's wit that's how they one search you know that's how chrome is that's why I'm using Chrome right now and that's and it's just Google products all sorts of things that's the iPhone nobody was like I'm never giving up this Palm Pilot they're like oh that's better Thanks I'm gonna go to there is there is an aspect of I mean if you if you look at how Silicon Valley works if you are people with ideas and those people so if they have a good enough idea and it looks like they can implement it they get millions of dollars from some way to finish that point they get millions of dollars from somebody and they create that product and if in and I think there should be erotically there should be a way to be inside of a big company have a great idea looks like you can execute it you get millions of dollars from your big company called Yahoo yeah you launch it unbranded or branded yeah and it's a good idea and then people will you incentivize people I know I think it's actually I think it's a really cool idea I mean I don't know if from a businessman why you actually were using incentivizing we're using Google hangout right now which was developed in a sub incentivizing your employees and giving them ownership of the things they make and thinking like you can add value to the company that you work for and also like line your pocketbooks had become like an entrepreneur in some way is a really awesome idea I just don't know if like logically that makes any sense right that's why people are like I'm outta here to start my own call so people create great things inside of Google Google and they do and I think Google has a is a is a much newer company right and they are much better at incubation up to the surface we know there's actually a we ran a second piece o generally which is very interesting but what actually happens in these companies is that these founders leave they build their businesses and then they Akwa hire back because that's how that's how the cycle actually works right right you leave Apple you build a company and then yeah but but maybe there's a mom maybe a job maybe there is Yahoo wants to have any chance and with it becoming a gut it's all about mitigating risk for good company so you say go here's you know go start a company if it's any go by yeah but but maybe there's a smarter way to do it I would just say yes that's how it works but even but Yahoo's chosen but Yahoo's sucking and maybe there's a smarter way to do so maybe so I hate for me like I'm kind of like a baby I don't know I'm kind of like a loyal list type of person like to be honest like if if if I had felt like AOL if I'd had an idea and someone would allow me to build it into a product I would have been interested in that you know like there's I like the idea of working for a company and being a part of a company and building a company I think that's cool too nice little hat you got there I was popping a little bit yeah I it was I spy so let's talk about it it'd be better building this fantasy world of big companies investing in people that way because what the market is chosen is to mitigate risk we're letting you go start a startup and buy your company if it's good and that's how big companies and that's why you spend a billion dollars on Instagram and that's why that's where I Instagram right if this program hadn't worked it would have cost Facebook five million dollars in experimentation yeah but but they couldn't oh right but I mean so there are really two paths right there's like the path to so I want to just stop I want to when I get back to our actual I'm really thirsty do you gonna leave I know it's not your job but I tried to drop a hint earlier but I'm so thirsty he did try to drop a hint you were okay let's get back to the place dude please I think there's something collected in both of these thirsty for debate so weird that's okay go ahead both of these pieces are the reaction to them from our readers and from the world reflected something that I think you just brought up which is if you have a good idea the tech community will just give you millions of dollars right that's an idea and you have the ability to EXCI with that that fine but those those are all like objective criteria but we ran another piece this week which is all about how female founders or companies have to fight harder to get venture capital yeah male founders I wonder what a structural problem yeah because it's because it's like a bunch of it's an old one old white men yeah Ronnie and they have they have control that's the people that they feel I'm inai I mean this is not some you know not that and then I think that's even further amplified by the internet which allows a bunch you know our we know the demographics i graph our site is like wealthier 18 to 35 year old men right that's like the core hand with them very handsome and cavity and it's growing a is growing but that's like that's the big trunk in the middle yeah and for those demographics are real and that means one type of site what I've read it attracts one kind of person first for them to say if you come on to Reddit and your ideas are good we'll support you is like completely ignorant of the structural reality the brevity of the which is thousands of years of subjugation of minorities and women by right essentially and so you man I doubt I don't see color or gender in this space right but that space is a reflection of reality no no no I read her ready read it sees color and gender but even though they insist that they don't know about the nature of humanity which is they see I think it's about actually the nature of discussion on the Internet well there is Dom there is this like we're colorblind yeah you know I know right exactly and it's like yeah but you're still on the PlayBook of a structure that was built thousands of years before you came into typically with the least nicknames on reddit you can typically tell if it's a girl violin takers was a guy just kidding all I'm saying is I actually do you think an idea from anybody on reddit can do pretty well that's fine but like read it's a bad example right it is a lazy it's like a forum I wasn't like right journal is a very different thing starting it because you miss having a go here yeah I think I think it's all it's it's yeah but but in a and you don't solve the big problem without the people for edits the without the community right it's the least nobody it's it's it's a spectrum right it's it's a gradient of behaviors it's you can say with the reaction to our piece about the big problems yeah from people on the internet was why do these problems exist I don't even see them your action to why were there no women at the Sony event was you know a thousand comments on our site that were well maybe there are no women qualified enough to do the job you know I'm in computer science class and that's crazy combination at the Sony event piece the what was the event well they were okay so I needed ps4 the ps4 event right and there were they probably had people they probably had how many people in stock 1918 from a variety of from from does like a dozen companies not just Sony people I would get if like Sony just happened to not have any females in those positions they wanted to put on stage I get it but like not one company had one woman yeah that could speak about their product on stage of the event like it just seems really weird ya know and and and and by the way people are like you don't have any women on the version has like the verge cast is like a show it's like there's no women and in poison like a poisons a band they started the band it's like four guys and like they're poison right the verge cast is us for the most part like we do have and we do it we do have we had agreement on the merge cast you know we try to keep it this group of three sometimes we're trying to keep women down we try to keep women down but the point is it's like a we're like a band you know we are but I don't think so I think we're curved am I happy with the amount of women we have in in in you know roles here in senior roles or whatever it no am I happy with the amount of minorities that we have I mean you know we have Neil I and then that's very much it like you know we're not we're not perfect and we're also working against thousands of years of like the structure of society right but but I think no one's perfect but I think the first step is saying like yeah you know we can be better saying like but what's the problem it's a meritocracy everywhere look the internet only thing worse than what you're describing of the Sony event yeah I didn't see forcing women on stage is is that because I have seen the Harry and a lot of of gaming announcements at Microsoft and Sony have done we're like here's our our token woman right who enjoys fit fitness apps and no andreen is just as bad as I think it's definitely worse and I would definitely I'd rather have a reflection my favorite thing at the gaming at gaming announcement things whatever you call keynotes gaming keynotes and I've been to a lot is when the guy who is the number one guy at that company or that are building that game the guy or woman but it's typically a guy who's heading that project walks out on stage and plays his game that means a lot to me and so I wouldn't want a woman trust them to that role and so if the only games the question is not about them it's not about how you put out on stage the the bigger question and the fundamental question is how are we being are we building industries new industries that are as open and welcoming to women and minorities as they should be I think people on the internet keep going of course you're on the internet it doesn't matter like it's all equal everybody's the same and like the actual thing that's happening in like the boardrooms and like the the the offices of the world that are actually where these companies are happening is the is the old-school stuff that's been going on for 500 years or longer or whatever then we have a bad disconnect because you go like I want and you're like nothing's wrong it's like there's a war going on and you're like I can't see the war so there's also and I will say this this idea of the enforced meritocracy of the Internet is is flawed from conception because if you say you come on the internet you have a good idea you win it's who is the judge who's saying that requires ideas and it requires more than just a good idea it requires a lot of really hard work like you don't write you know the Internet is just a is a slightly different version of life which is yeah you have more you have I think you do have more opportunities if you have an idea to that idea heard and to make something out of it but it doesn't mean that if you have a good idea that you are that you are going to make something out of it that people are going to care it just means that you have an opportunity I will agree I'm sorry I'm stuck I and I'm sorry because I haven't been part of this larger discussion that happened on the internet play and wait and I page of the New York Times in the Wall Street Journal yeah it's this is like a panning out what anyhow be your pull it to your point your point the the I I literally do not I I will totally agree that there are way less women in the video game industry then then there should be maybe and that I would like to see and even could be but I do really do not see any systemic of effort or or or reason why they can't be well I think the there is no there is no I think that I think all right on its face on on its face yeah it's probably true but the I mean we're getting into like territory which is like the structure of business and let's just say let's take America for a moment but if this is all over the world the structure of businesses in the world and in America and the ways that we have learned to interact have I mean there are deep reasons why like women are paid less but the man in the same position the game why it's harder for women to get into those and also like in terms of our education the types of ways that we push people into what types of industries we push them into dramatically I and what is like an open and accepting industry for women to feel that they can go into versus one that men feel comfortable guidance it's just the way most men don't want to go into the industry of fashion I'm sure most men you know don't think of that's an open welcoming industry that they can be part of right and be an you know like there's this there's no like a bunch of guys in fashion but yes okay live in New York like you're a weird guy so you know people in fashion but the typical like out in the in the Midwest people aren't like I really want to go into fashion like for men that's not a job that seems like a job for them just like many jobs are historically we were like pushing people towards these things because it's like kind of other structure of society which is like fundamentally unfair but two groups I do think there's something so I can't speak to all that were in like the edge we're in dangerous territory I don't think we're in danger we're saying really obviously I can't speak to the education side of you know what people push towards I can't speak to larger corporate structures because I don't understand the right but I will say as a you know especially knowing a gamer community and the gaming industry is relatively young and you see you may have people kind of creating can I pause okay I think you have people creating just relatively new companies that are that they can kind of form in their own way and you know totally companies like valve I mean this is a very new joshan a lot of how many women they're at an executive level how many women are there I mean there are women hired like there's a breakdown but I I'm just saying there's you can create a woman but the societal woman and you show up for that I don't yes you have a real time right they know you are absolutely 100% wrong it's because you're you don't know what's been going on right and i thats well it's like I'm now I'm like frustrated with it because there's like an entire set of like tweets and articles as hashtag one reason why which is just women in a games industry complaining and noting the problem I to make games we put in I think what I think but I think what he's saying the only thing that well but suppose like the opportunity to have a new company that thinks differently is there because we're creating these new industries but the reality is that there are like the game's layers not a new societal issues that are causing like companies to be formed using the same bad broken tactics that we've been using for like forever in business which is like a suck which but bullets just does subjugate women and minorities basically like whether we like it or not right and I'm what I'm saying is like it's great you know I don't think that people go into interviews at ei wherever in like there's like a oh your woman get out of here I think that there's a real tendency to say I think this is why you know Nvidia Nvidia at CES perfect example they're their keynote with the girl with the with that you don't remember I was PTA Jen son had had this girl come out and he's like take a picture with me and I'm gonna take my jacket off and she was like he's like you're a gamer right and it was like this totally awful and ends like just that that is even exist that there's that even though they're like gross sexism so human but that but that that speaks to us I should walk this back with that is very the dad overt sexism speaks to a much more subtle underlying sexism that just kind of in facts why you shaking your head at me right now okay they just they just kind of why because it's not that we're discussing it yeah I thoroughly enjoy yeah you seem I seem very upset about I'm very upset because it's it's your said appalled I guess a part of this I've missed that discussion I'm very naive on this I just the most of the gamer culture that I see and I participate in seems very welcoming and very overly I think of the gamers I actually let me put it to you I see sometimes in gaming to be honest I see a more in an inclusive community that is more rapidly welcoming of somebody who might get the best I think you're looking I think you are you looking at the best of the best and I think I think you are online gaming is a average craft world that built a shrine to you I participate in all sorts of I think I think if you asked if you ask my wife like what what is it like playing xbox right she would say in a year old racist screams no no I mean and that's the market I dance dolls no but I think Paul and I'm not trying to defend him you know that we're attacking him but to this point I think Paul is is and I think that it gives you a bad perspective on this you are not an aggressive hardcore gamer there's types of games that you like that are a little bit more indie a little bit more weird and I think you're exposed to a part of the industry that is more progressive at least in terms of its demo right you know what I mean like there are a lot of there are a lot of female players of World of Warcraft like we know that and I think that that is a more inclusive demographic but it doesn't it does not reflect in the industry that is making World of Warcraft I think that's the problem like the there are female players and female developers and there are women who do these things it's just not truly reflective of the industry right I think there and that's that's the problem no and in games are big business with a lot of money and technology's a big business with a lot of money and that amount of money just attracts assholes yeah so like you might also just you might believe is we are rolling off of a model that's an old model I mean right building business is why for example we're sending a lot of people at South by Southwest this and I went last year and I couldn't stand it because it was such a in its core you know South by is supposed to be a it's supposed to be Ted writes for ideas everybody's here they're happy that's it let's go to a bunch of nobody's happy the celebration of the of the tech community startup and I walked around basically meeting a much people dudes on the startup bus yeah right which is like which is and they all thought they're gonna get rich and look read I mean I have to say like read you know when Kara Swisher writes about you know the pig pile of Silicon Valley yeah you know she's talking about an old boys club she's talking about the the like almost literally is the room with the guys smoking cigars and no women allowed like that's a real thing and it's how do I get to this room yeah invite where they drinkin can I have some brandy but anyhow but look even that kind of joke is so sexist we're horrible sexist and I feel terrible the truth is like we are not as advanced as we'd like to be let's let's put it that way the tech industry thinks it's a lot more advanced than it is and that's the problem I think the problem is everybody in this in congratulating us we're right going like I'm color blind I'm blind to gender like I don't care about this stuff but like actually in your actions and the statistics don't even come close to reflecting that and so that's a problem I think like being aware of it being aware of it is how you start to like fix it right you say like is there a problem not being as inclusive as we can be can we find ways to involve more people different kinds of people in this because like they can bring something new and exciting to it and we're ignoring that because we're working off of an old like playbook right I think that's the start and then you know I don't think there's like you need there's not like affirmative action in the tech industry like that you need to like force people into jobs just think you need to recognize it like we're not as it we're not as like socially sophisticated as like the tech industry wants to be like you want to be this colorblind like everybody wants to say like we're colorblind we're gender blind let's just do this thing all together let's hold hands and jump into this exciting new abyss of Technology but the truth is like we're working off play books that are like you know the oil tycoons working on the same place I'll just say I'm I'm optimistic because the gamer community I see the people are creating the indie games right now and the people who are going to be leading the industry in the future seem to be a lot of pretty great interesting people and I think we do have an opportunity this does this industry does have an opportunity to fix a lot of what has been broken for a long time in in this equality yeah conversation although I will say they are they need to think about it for us to do it beyond the twos on stage criticism on ps4 event which is our surface yeah but our biggest like context or content criticism was all these games look like shooters they are driving game and honestly like you know what if we have a lot higher the same guys to make your game yeah are the same types of guys to make your games you're only gonna end up I like it I like a game where you literally autosave it but they are there like year you know the government surveillance or whatever you know that's that's we're now a hard right turn yeah that's where the money is but at the same time at the same time Sony promotes the has in house some of the best most artistic interesting developers as well probably they were a lot to do things other than make Killzone 30 I mean III mean I mean journey red flower yeah there's a huge gulf between I just want to say like getting more specifically little babes play on that but there's a sort of extreme there's a you go these like whimsical cartoon games and like games about real things like you know and when you look at their room but look look at movies you know there are movies that are serious adult movies they're about human drama there sometimes they're violent sometimes they're romantic sometimes they're about a mystery there like all these wild places that movies go you know sometimes they're very meta like their commentary social commentary so like all of these things in games like really and then there's like also cartoon movies there's like wreckit-ralph and there's you know all these different types of car challenges has exclusively that whatever that Ellen Page game yeah but the Ellen Page game at the end of the day it's like you're a girl you're gonna use superpowers you've got to kill these copper but it's like if you're gonna compare Sony and Microsoft sodas way further I'm saying just taste terms you know not way further a little bit further just take the games what is it all what does Microsoft have this is what let me just see the pinata stop can I can I stop this one I'm just saying that there are like there's a whole Gulf of like places the games don't go Sony micro every I evaluate and like and we're safe and like what we really need I think what we really want is more people more diversity more ideas like I don't care where they even come from like just let's like be accepting of them this is a totally different topic God we're so off topic and I have to go because I actually like meeting in two minutes very much whoa bother blow everything she's getting is his facial implant I'm getting I'm finally getting the if I'm gonna get the ability Josh has Google Google the last two play-doh which is gonna go go can we talk about it yeah you we didn't talk about last week on the rich cast because you did a big feature then you weren't around Google glass oh yeah never-ending series of watch rumors from every company yeah like two minutes and then I have to go for what so like um it's like not that jarring I think people like to have make this assumption that when you're wearing it it somehow creates them like head like overlay on your vision your field of vision it's just like you're using it and there's a little thing up here and if you look up you see it and if you don't look up glass cube do you like perceive that cube really class no ecstasy no not really you know once it's on you're not thinking about any member so yeah I mean like in my memory of the experience of using I wasn't like things hanging over my eye it didn't feel like that you know it's there yeah but it doesn't feel it's like wearing glasses like I see the rim of my glasses right now right and maybe I'm less sensitive to because I wear glasses all the time but I see my glasses all the time like over here like there's my glasses like yeah they are there right there so it was a lot it's a lot like that yeah except it also shows stuff in your field of vision right and it's just this thing this little information it's cube yeah and it's like it's here's the thing I probably wouldn't wear Google glass yeah in its current form unless and I was in very specific situations like dire straits if I was playing jamming with dire straits yeah maybe the tab I need to make sure I could see the notes of money for nothing ya know in certain situations I kept doing something crazy or like taking a roller coaster or I don't know like there if I had kids maybe we're like video for the road to video and pictures and stuff like there are times like I'm looking at my dog and I'm like man I wish I can take a picture this right now like a biast is that but primary application on camera I think it's it's no I think that it's the camera's a big piece but I think also this kind of a non-intrusive message notifications not intrusive like you get a text message in here like that instead of going like that I think that's a big deal for them would you rather go like that or like that for people listening would you would you rather look at a watch or out of distraction you know I think taking your phone out unlocking it and like looking at the thing is a huge distraction also like physically disruptive to what you're doing I think this is less distracting but also so much is looking at a watch me looking at watches you know it's not that hard I do it all the time sure but is it as easy as doing this you know it's not so here's the thing at the end of the day like there are the big things the big questions are like they look goofy right people are like they look goofy but if they don't look good if you then I think let's just say they're gonna be there was did you have to refocus on the thing yeah it kind of is like it's off its faucets it feels like feels like it's like you're focusing on how do you do you wear glasses how does that work for you my prescriptions not super strong okay but they're where in lieu of glasses well they're working on a version that can take so they have a thing that I put on these sunglasses that kind of like twist and they snap into the frame okay and so what they're doing is that they're working on making versions of that for prescription lenses so you can get a prescription lens for it and stick it in your the holy grails to integrate it right into the holy grail is like I go to buy these glasses like you want that with Google glass or without what it'll be an extra thousand dollars or whatever the price five hundred dollars five thousand people gasp I'd be like that's awesome because they have you don't worry about it because I don't have to worry about if I want to use it I can use it like would you not want some extra help like if you're walking around I don't want to get your eyes and glasses and swatch their right and what are the coolest very romantical one of the cool side ever do use you know but you know I could never tell the color of people's eyes like bluish green bluish gray brown really I have no idea scream what colors would your blue eyes know they're like I grew up and I blue eye they look good smoke here they're like a smoky blue yeah Josh what color eyes they're like greenish one of them looks different colors you look like a snake all just said and I quote you look like a snake I'm terrified by the way Chinese astrological sign snake year of the snake you look like The Witcher all right it's time to close this anyhow that's the verge cast of this week I'm sorry if you'd like to get I get turn-by-turn directions yes well that's nuts gonna say is the coolest thing is like you get at yeah the Train you're walking around you're like how do I get to there turn my turn right here like you're does the only thing I'm worried about is like whether you have to refocus your eyes it's not it's not like a crazy because like it's like I'm looking at you and looking at the wall and back it's like not it's not even that much problem you know what emerge get just a little feature request yeah I would kind of like if you had Google glass and it was in your actual glasses if it would I think Google glass needs some outward focused aspects to let people know Google glass is doing things I think it needs a record light shows you can see the light on but it's very subtle I think a red light would be probably yeah a red light because I think it's really rude right well that's it I was gonna say the other big thing is like are they cool but then the other question is like privacy that's really different the other thing and I went in and I went out our box and filmed and nobody said anything if if you have what you look like the Terminator I was like if you say something to me I will blow your head off but also like if you have glasses it'd be cool if you have turned my turn I'd almost want the arrows to show up your vision yeah just ask I want to see if you're looking at something else other than the ultimate the ultimat yeah okay that's yeah I you know okay if you can have a little like LED thing that says like using turn-by-turn like a little scroll a big okay that's average cast for the week if you let me in touch with us you can email us at Virg cast at the verge calm you can leave a comment on the post when it goes up we'd love that you could post them in forums if you want on the site you can also find us on Twitter the Verge's at Virg I'm Joshua Topolsky Neil is reckless and Paul is future Paul soon to return to the internet when may 1st May 1st I mean we're just creeping right up on it yeah creeping just creeping up behind it sorry we're we're Google glass and we're angry glass and we're recording and we'll be back next week with more Virg Casti goodness and until then you know I think don't worry about what's in the back seat of your car it's probably nothing