Gadgetory

hey and welcome to the verge cast for the week of april fifteenth 2013 I'm Josh Topolsky I'm nilay patel i'm ross miller span we are back when I quickly just address the Paul situation cuz I got a lot of tweets please do Paul Paul is not on the I'm like your background here mine I don't like this I all I can see is a good wall and a door or you look silly no big deal no I am cel-shaded actually there's still doing a lot of expert yeah you've been superimposed yeah it's weird because I look like I've been superimposed as well yeah what's a new vibe there's a conspiracies here that displays green screen the lighting is um I'm not sure I'm not crazy about this either what's that white thing over this thing over here what is that I don't know anyhow um Oh Paul Paul let's talk about Paul Paul's my bag on the internet all he's on a easily enter the spirit journey no he'll be back in 12 days then it will be triumphant but don't rest assured that he's fine you know he's just very busy Paul's fine doing the last year's prepping he's prepping his return to the Internet yeah I got some hair stuff coming on here there we go um he's prepping his return to the internet and and he'll be back at full force believe me yeah he'll be back he literally I spoke to him on the phone just before and he was like here when I'm back you won't you won't be able to get rid of me it was actually kind of threatening that is that is it that is vaguely he has been setting up a cot over there the back I mean he's he is not leaving the studio ya know he's he'll be verge casting tormak arouse really return you know a lot of people would love a 24-hour Paul cast no they freak an absolute maybe maybe when he comes back baby bash we'll put it we'll put a drone on him um anyhow we have a lot of news to discuss this week obviously not all of it really very upbeat in fact this has been like a crushing terrible we've been a crushing news week yeah uh you know we started on Monday with the the Boston Marathon bombing and uh in last night there's been in there's been all sorts of you know things that have happened at the UH related to that had been terrible uh last night there was a this explosion in in Texas which is unrelated which is unrelated and is not a terrorist as far as we know not a terrorist attack is actually sadly uh uh one in a line of many types of accidents like this is like a fertilizer fertilizer explosion factory explosions are apparently not as uncommon as they should be but that's what happens when you're working with substances like ammonium nitrate and all these crazy chemicals they put into fertilizers which by the way goes into your food so that make you feel really really good about yeah store bought your store bought apples but um so it's been a big it's been a big and kind of tough tough week and I think we should start we want to start by talking about Boston yeah and what's been happening since Boston obviously monday was insane yeah we you know saw this story breaking on Twitter and felt very strongly that it was something that we needed to to cover and it turns out i mean i think this is one of those you know we've been covered a lot of national security lately we've covered north korea the sort of disputes between North Korea and the US or the rest of the world we've covered some serious stuff and anyway and just in general we've been talking about it cities doing surveillance yeah security yeah a lot of drones stores low surveillance stories we did this great report if you didn't see this great feature about taser and their new their new cams literally this show last week was just me Matt Stroud and ben popper and carl franzen talking about surveillance yeah i mean like we've been very focused on it so and so in so anyhow so we so we obviously covered the news on on monday which was chaotic and crazy and then there's been a ton of follow-up but but you know i think the most interesting well one of the most interesting developments that has come out of this is this at least in the last couple of days and elise if you work on the internet and you are a news junkie this thing with the the well the New York Post and just kind of like like Reddit and 4chan have taken it upon themselves at the request of no one yeah to to begin sifting through photographic photographic and video evidence that from the or not even evidence just pictures and video from from the marathon to try to identify suspects in this case and and you know that the authorities said said putt to the public if you have videos if you have photos please give them to us in anything any useful information that you think might be might might help us find literally the first thing the authorities actually said yeah at their press conference on Monday was I said this is terrible we don't know what's going on here's a phone number for 24 tip well for you here's a front number for your family you know if you're missing somebody right and here's a phone number for text ya know they were there it was obvious that look I mean the the way this thing developed on you know the way we saw this thing breaking on Twitter and all of these photos and video and just like immediately following it and by the way this kind of happened with the explosion last night but just this incredible immediate outpouring of of info just random info so so so somehow and I don't know how the internet got this idea and its head but but people on reddit decided and people on 4chan decided of all places decided they're going to not just hand over what they might have or or or you know they're going to start doing and they're going to do amateur forensics on these in these photos and it already has it within I'd say you know 24-48 hours of that really commencing and it being a public thing it's already resulted in at just terrible terrible stuff happening and we covered something today the New York Post ran a story front-page story on your post not really known for I mean laughing is not it's been above and beyond for this I got in the onion cast cure them pretty hard for this I mean it with the near post already was reporting bad information they said you know day of night of they said Saudi national and all this dozens dead as yet does instead is not panned out I mean this is like last night during the the fertilizer explosion there were these reports 70 people dead and yeah and you know people tienen was sort of kind of reporting it you have to say so I've been watching a lot of CNN yeah can daddy has been watching a lot of CNN with sir I'm sorry can you guys turn down my volume in my earpiece is extremely loud right now anyway so adding I've been watching a lot of CNN right as we like manages coverage and watching see like I don't want to turn this into a journalism conversation but watching how like that operates now we're like literally the story goes from one thing and then like it's like Anderson Cooper and John Kane like look at their cell phones right and they're just reading texts from their cell phones being like a source is now saying like really likely in the other disorient between lead changes known actually in part where they're like we're gonna go check on this yeah or we're to go off and do a little bit i mean i think that that one of the things you've seen in the last few days is is you know since news is accelerated and i do and i don't wanna get into adrenaline conversation either but since news accelerated now like I think that CNN and and and all of these traditional outlets feel like this incredible heat from yeah just people beating like actual people at the scene beating them to information I beaten and which is very much with the fertilizer plant right and right and at video and uh I think we might have this there is a vine from Boston yeah there is a remix in the it's a dvr'd it was literally somebody played it on the DVR and to combine it all but it wasn't it wasn't it was a station running that footage but it was footage from the scene that vine was actually recorded off of television right this time station running but from what I can achieve it was just such a weird circular this is it is terrible yessir me it was the vine itself that was like what got popular it's because it freezes here I think on any on this explosion and I don't know why I mean but it's so I mean so just that the incredible people I think they're now looking they're going to the Internet yeah right they're going to these other channels where information is pouring at you it's not necessary curated or filtered yeah and i think the actual news organizations now feel they have to operate at that yeah i think i think there's that I think there's this increased this increase scent of we've just got to get there first right um and and it's you know it's something that we have strived to having you know kind of come from a world of blogging where first is you know this big thing and it's like we have you know done everything we can increasingly do everything we can to if we do have something up if we do have a breaking piece of news we don't have all the details we don't flesh out the details and be loved actually you know they bitch sometimes that we put up a headline and it says developing or we have one line in there it says developing the reason says develop is because the news is coming we're getting the news but we're trying to make sense of it and you know we want to you know obviously we want people to know that that's coming in that it right we are gonna be on the story but i think i think the promising it wasn't that they had the complete story and they were the wrong they're wrong they're so confident and yet so so bring it back to this post thing so today the post runs cover story um bag men this ridiculous headline i don't know if we can put it up on the screen or not but uh and and it has a picture of these two guys that the reddit people were just sure that these were the guys that the somehow they all they were standing their bags and get one has a white cap and there's all this misinformation all this weird stuff going around and and and it's like in the echo chamber of of the internet in this in this with this mob mentality where you literally have a bunch of amateur right i mean i don't know who these people are i don't know what their agenda is i don't know what their you know right red redditors are you know anonymous it's like this is not your job your job is not to solve crimes okay well so and and i just want to say hana and i'm sure you have something to say here but i don't say like this to me is that the Authority said give us your pictures give us your video we want to try to figure this out we have professionals who are forensics experts that are gonna look at the stuff and figure it out this is like if a doctor said you feud a friend who is sick then the doctor is like if they get any sicker bring him to me we might have to do surgery right and you're like they get in you sent them they since they seem to get be getting sick and you're like well i was gonna do the surgery myself yeah but that's basically the cid that's basically what's going on like it's like you this is not your job you don't do professionally you don't have all the data you don't have all the details the authorities are going to share all their information with you and like I'm all for i love the spirit of let's get together collectively do something to help but what that should be is let's get together and go donate blood or let's get together and raise money for families of the victims of this or let's make sure let's put the word out that if you have photos or video it needs to go to the authorities but the way you help is not you put on your little detector your little Sherlock hat and decide that you're going to be like a like a cool crime solved I guess because I think it's I think it's really dangerous it means but what's happening with these guys being on the cover of the New York Post which from what we can tell seems to be completely thanks to what's been going on on the internet it's extremely dangerous and extremely harmful and it really hurts the process so the thing I'm you're not gonna get crowds to stop being curious looking at maybe they will find something it's when they took that information that they weren't sure about and then grab the pitch for one yeah hold up right hold on I went that well so there's I think there is a little bit of a media story here right which is it's fine for the people on reddit and the people on 4chan to go and look at this stuff right it's that's great and I think there's a lot of help I don't think it's great I mean it's but you don't think are allowed to do it you you're a lot your life is Ryan you're you're allowed to write a racist magazine and publish it or right go on it started racist erasing a racist reddit side but let me I don't worry you two to do bad things I'm saying you can participate and you can like you can get done with whatever takamine process you want to have right and then be like authorities here's our information sure and then the authorities can do whatever they want yeah I think all that's fine what's not fine and I think here's where the problem set in was there was this a great hope and I think this hope is manifested that somehow the internet would solve this part like they would fix it like these this collective band of anonymous strangers would like somehow beat the authorities and like be vigilant but that hope comes from comes from know it comes from that know it comes from the immature mind of the redditor who thinks that they can read it didn't publish the New York Post yeah no they didn't publish the nearest or what they but what they did do was because they're not professionals and because they're working in a public forum they doxxed people they took pictures of actual human beings who live and work and are real and were like these guys look like the look like the bomber that was the point and and that was when they cross love you but you can do but you can't be a reddit collective looking at photos of human beings trying to decide who's the bomber without totally violating and stepping all over those those peoples like rights to privacy in two and two not being I mean it'sit's libel you know I mean it's basically defamatory that that you would look at a person's picture and put it online and say this person is looks like most likely like they're the bomber you know and it is shame on the New York Post for them to take any of that and to publish it right shame on them for forever doing something for publishing a photo where it's alleged to be somebody without any evidence on the front page note on the front page well on any page no evidence from the authorities no confirmation from somebody right um but but I think the danger the dangerous place is and I agree with you that but there are amateur there are people who are who are amateur investigators who spend time and effort trying to figure things out and they do sometimes see something the police missed right yet something that that that nobody else was paying attention to but this is a case where it is a it is 24 hours 48 hours after this thing happened there is a massive amount of imagery and video from the marathon no one no one asked for these guys to to disseminate this stuff online and start picking it apart and and and the result has been a disorganized destructive mess and and like I and I and here's the thing if you want to take all the photos you can find and and fig try to figure out who the bomber is and take that to the authorities no that's right that's great but if you want to do it in public you're going to take those pictures and put them on a public forum where we'll be where where we'll have the gasoline report on it by the media because it's a public place yeah um that's stupid right stupid and it's full in it and it is dangerous but I'm there's a reason we don't run the story yesterday right as we talked about it a lot right well the story one is this we ran today which is where you see where you see that the result of something like this and you know you see redditors going in by the way I think there are a lot of I think the red it produces a lot of amazing stuff I'm not this is not all people on reddit this is small group you but you see the writers in these forums going guys stop posting that picture you know don't share this with media this is wrong we got the wrong people and it's like you know that's what that's what a witch-hunt looks like right it's like you you get somebody strung up only to discover that they're not the guy actually away they're not a witch or they're not they're not the killer I mean this is like mob rule you know and mob mentality and mob rule has no place in an investigation of an extremely serious extremely real right crime then so was injured and killed people what's really interesting about this and alexis madrigal wrote this today and it's a counterpoint some of the other stuff that's happening right now which is I think there's a very strong sort of libertarian streak that perp was pervasive and read it in these communities yeah and it's like we'll just do it we don't need the government to help us we'd right anybody to regulate this space but Alexis's point was this fiction only works as long as you pretend that what you do online isn't the same as your behavior offline right so if you actually did this if you had a warehouse full of people like circling print photographs and being like is this the bomber like we wouldn't cover that as some active like heroic vigilantism right we'd be like these people are crazy it's a lynch mob it's a lynch mob in like this is what happened it's like if you walked into somebody's apartment and they have like 4,000 frames of the Zapruder film with JFK assassination hung up no you like you're crazy I'm just ask me ok it's ok that theirs is ok that there's this personal investigation going on if you have access to it that's great the problem is this is not a data collation issue there is more is partially that it is partially that the data is on a wrong like programmatic yeah this is not resolve it is not a programmatic issue in order to in order to understand and I don't by the way pretend that I have the knowledge to even fully explain this but what I will say is in order to do the kind of work that the authorities are doing right now you not only need to have these amateur pieces of photography and these amateur videos but you need access to 60 ctv univ access the security cameras give access to aerial cameras you have access to witnesses you need have access to victims and and and data like you know uh phone logs and i mean the the depth of the data that you need right to properly detox you need to be the cops you need to be the FBI and the police who are actually doing this work and who are really good our train right solve a lot of these things pretty quickly and i have no doubt that in the coming days they are going to figure it out and we know that these guys by the way like your first pass amateur investigators is resulted in a totally destructive moment for this case which is we took our attention off of you know the real story which is the people who were victimized and and you know the the the horror of this bombing and made it a story about like read it forms a lynch mob right and and it also injured these guys who are on the cover of a paper now who have come forward and they're like freaking out there like this is word right there there i think one of those a high school student yeah 10 wants to him once her at their coach like this harkens back like the Richard Jewell thing about like the Centennial Olympic Park bombing right he was a hero and then he was villainized he goes to some and he is funny about that is that I was like 15 when that happened I remember him and I don't remember who actually did it right right she's like terrible right like and and you know I think that in the age of the internet and this is the real thing I mean that was that was trial by by the media right right now the Richard Jewell think we've seen it because that T like when seeing in like the FBI had to do a press release yesterday saying we have not arrested that there was another amazing CNN reported around like a rat in our cities i watch saudi national watching CNN again right i mean i just would I don't generally watch a lot of like TV news during the day but like so we just had it was on mute every time we looked at it had the huge breaking news banner you know and we like oh and like turn on the sound and it would just be like Anderson Cooper reading this right again but finally they're like okay arrests have been made you know we're hearing somebody's in custody everyone's massed outside of the courthouse in Boston like thousands of media people are there so many so that eventually there was a bomb threat and the courthouse was evacuated and the FBI put out a press release like you guys don't know what you're talking about like right don't report things until we like the FBI's presley's was basically shut up CNN yeah right and that was it and I think they didn't even have their schedule press conference for the day they were like which would have been tremendously useful I think if like the police and the FBI had a press conference at yeah they were supposed to have it at five the courthouse got evacuated got moved to eight and I think then it just got just put to bed it's it's just dumb it's just like everybody needs to chill out I mean basically everybody needs to chill out for a minute and let let the police and the FBI do their job here but I think also like them as having covered this you know and being in the midst of covering it you have to figure out you know for us it's also like you know where it's we're exploring certain areas of coverage we're talking about things that we may do or may not do that are you know you have to kind of test your comfort zone with it but you really have to ask yourself is there any value here are we you know is there context are you telling a story or are you you know and is it value is that story valuable or are you just adding to like this wave of noise you know right and I think that everybody's is so desperate to have something to say that you see this by the way with all sorts of news stories not just a terrible tragedy like a bombing you know can be anything you see this wave of people who and then you've got like the second wave you get the way the people who are covering then you get the wave of the critics and then there's like a third wave of the not professional media critics but like professional troll bloggers who are you know the mg Siegler zuv the world uh you know who have their out there who have their like you know attention-grabbing moment and so it's like it's like it's like this pile on you know and it's it's I actually spoke to I spoke to a critic of some of the coverage that we did and you know I was like it's funny it's weird in a moment of this intense a tragedy and confusion that there are people whose who take the time not to try to contribute but to complain about things which seems like such an odd place for your energy to go during during something like this so anyhow um the the the reddit stuff you know we've covered I you know I don't think they're going to stop I think they're gonna keep going with these with these um of course are you going I mean I think I'm gonna keep going and I think that you know what's been I hope yours I Oh said you know here's the inevitably damaging and destructive thing that will happen here the cops will figure it out right we hope and then read it will just keep going and somehow that will turn into a massive conspiracy theory right about how this was a false flag attack right for there was a cop in the area right before or you could see something any like me watching what's invisible is buried on the roof what's incredible is what's incredible is day one of this i mean our one or whatever it was a conspiracy there was some guy from infowars asking the governor right uh of massachusetts false face a false this is a false flag attack which is like listen I'm psyched that you have a conspiracy theory but um you know you are in the extreme intense minority if you think like the American government is dropping pipe bombs during the Boston Marathon and there are real questions to be asked yeah and one of them is not like did the American government plan the Boston Marathon bombing to the governor because if even if they did by the way I didn't catch him in for info wars i want to tell you even if even if they was a false flag attack that was part of a vast global conspiracy of which the US government is is a part yeah the governor would not tell you yes to that question because he's he's in on it obviously love is I mean obviously he's ain't even glimmer of recognition as I he would also see the glimmer of the reptilian of the reptile that lives beneath the shape-shifted flash of ravanar which is I think something to the infowars people my age so then here's and let's just not segue to another ya denia we're gonna keep trying out that the story is actually is is developing in all sorts of directions yeah there's a bunch of national security questions a bunch of policy questions and so the policy questions are the ones that are coming up right away because there is a vote on sis pon the house yesterday yea which was defeated last year in the Senate then it was back for debate yesterday and so siswa is the the cybersecurity intelligent and by the way Mike am I crazy I don't jump a gun to jump jump ahead here jump the gun but jump a gun there there there is there was an enormous amount of strangely worded like terrorism wording ya mera like scary terrorism wording in the in this comedy Jay compare that uh yeah yeah so Candice Miller Hogan from Michigan Horace's but passed 288 to 127 yesterday in the house in the house going back to the Senate I think Obama still threatened to veto it there's a lot of time I the way no love there could be no love loss at this point after the gun control stuff gay I'm sure Obama's like so Sonny's we know anything that's like Republicans ruin credibly scathing yeah he was not happy no I mean and why should he be happy well we should talk about that a little bit so Candice Miller who is a Republican represented from Michigan said North Korean hackers will take down the u.s. power grid Joe hack who's our problem for Nevada said our nation is under attack Mike McCaul Republican taxes hey this is an outrage but let me just read this quote then you just let me just raise the temperature on you one more one more degree okay Mike McCaul Republican from Texas in the case of Boston they were real bombs in this case their digital bombs and these digital bombs are on their way this this guy lately just one more guy should be sent to jail one more representative would all from Georgia yeah you're on your own stuff yes quote the Fourth Amendment Trump's all he said like basically whatever protection of privacy you think you have it doesn't matter the fourth with them and is going to be specification for this measure is great and ACL u--'s you're feeling constitutions cause a lot of problems yeah according if she was Michelle Richardson this bill is Rolla saying he's pretty much the exact same with the introduced before you haven't made a lot of changes clarification sure but it's pretty much the same thing that we all fought against with so much figure that will probably never see again well this is exactly how you end up in a war with Iraq after a terrorist attack no I mean it is i mean this is this is what happens is is you take an issue that uh it's been a thorn in your side that's me relatively unrelated cyber terrorism is a form of terrorism don't get me wrong it's just really different than dropping an actual physical bomb you know right in a crowded in a crowded race I mean I don't want to dive into sista you know that because we've talked about it a lot for over a year but I imagine we'll get you just to remind people what goes on here is right now companies like Facebook and Google and Apple whoever they collect a bunch of your information right and they can't share it among themselves they can't share with the government Cisco creates a framework that basically says those companies can now share that information with the government without liability right and the government can like run around doing whatever they want yeah and the justification essentially is don't worry who we won't do anything bad but we need to start coordinating among all these companies that are all being attacked every day and they need like the companies themselves need to be able to like do best practices or security and the government needs to know like what the threat vectors are for all these companies and systems so that we can develop a coordinated national so that then when I point out when I say it that way it sounds great sounds very reason when you dive in the bill language and I like there will be no liability for sharing personal information with the government you're like huh that sounds terrible yeah and there's no and it's funny because this bill was defeated last year Obama has consistently threatened to veto in this form and the Republicans are basically like hey there is a bombing let's try and right it just seems it's just so detached mentality alien by the way if he vetoes it right now if he vetoes it I'm have no doubt the Republicans will say Obama doesn't care about national security he doesn't care about protecting us against terrorism right because he veto in the wake of the of the Boston Marathon bombings right you know we put a bill in front of him that would protect us and protect our citizens from terrorism and he said no to it right which is which is the which is like this this messed up game of politics but you know but it's funny because the state of the union--obama passed a cybersecurity an executive order like beefing up some of these protections and he's sitting or urging Congress to like do something about it but he's like but balance balance it with what the people are telling you they want right which is some amount of protection for the privacy and all this all of this data that's in the cloud and it's in I would say is what's really interesting to me is these two things happening at the same time like this weird reddit daxing and this like incredible fight for personal privacy it's like you know if I had to pick if I had to choose between one of these outcomes I would I would take away the reddit daxing and I'd be like all right Facebook and Google I sort of trust you to handle my personal information in the case of like cyber threats from for enough so the question is that like I somewhat trust you in the government to all coordinate and do a basket well I I do not trust the crazy like anarchists and reddit know to find that if I do yeah I did it's weird because if you I just done I don't have like a complete thought because it's all happening in the past 48 hours but it's just weird this idea that we don't need the government we can do a better job in the government and we're going to fight against the government literally trying to give itself whatever tools that wants to do that job yeah instead of finding a balance it's like we've adopted or at least this particular crowd has adopted the most extreme position which is like an hour kiss like anarchism at its finest yeah but so my concern now I'm speaking you because you are way more of a legal expert I don't want to be an amateur critic of this just for the same reason the doc sinh and all that but their wording on the cisco build now still seems overly broad to the point across like with this sort of I've like legal scrutiny this is my stuff the other current current form screening from whom I mean so that's classic lure so that's the quote the Fourth Amendment Trump's all right like yeah if this passes they seal you in a number of groups eff whoever would sue the government and this this is in violation of Fourth Amendment but who knows I mean who knows me the protections contained in here are there they exist and they're not using this information to let go and prosecute you so I don't know like is it an unreasonable search for facebook to be like here are the attacks here's where they came from here in the accounts late it's not it's maybe not a search and our court certainly aren't like wonderful it understanding that like what happens on computer servers is just as real as what happens in the real world tell you but there's there's the broad idea what is trying to accomplish and then there's the nuanced rhetoric that's in the bill that will be used and scrutinized and potentially use in other ways that wasn't expected like that's I think the big concern here but so that's I mean if you want to adopt a very conservative position that's the problem with any piece of legislation right that you you put in this wording yeah these idealistic vision of what you're going to achieve and then people like literally turn that into whatever they want and so any piece of legislation or like a Bible yes wow way to go there man I mean I'm just saying role bloggers in the bottle to Paul ski stop just Sade you know the Bible is like it's like I'm wringing it but that's can be wielded like stop talking these do not bring me in some China stop talking about the Bible anyhow I so it's actually you know I I don't want to we have to move on because we will talk when you have a lot of and I want to actually say way from what you were just talking about into facebook i know that there's other stuff it because you were saying is facebook with your data and we did um you know Facebook obviously recently released yet home and messenger messenger chat heads it's actually using a messenger or messaging facebook what do they call it messier is that the official name anyhow so they released this near this new app he shat heads and and the home screen but we did a blender okay it is messenger so we did we did this great like in-depth look at their design process for for creating chat heads and creating their messaging product and one of the things I was surprised was to hear from the developers there that they all used Facebook groups to communicate turns out that's how they work uh and they pointed out that there are something like 80 million private Facebook groups and and I just thought like here's a perfect target for for sista right here's a very target would be like we need to know all those whatever the saying facebook groups are right now you know and I and I you know I don't know who like your your years kind of a false equivalency like do I want the doc seen guys on reddit or do I want this crazy regulation from a broken sort of a broken yeah I'm system like art I mean you know I do basically I crossed our government is doing the right thing tiny little bit more it's like how far do I want the pendulum to swing in favor of life right the crowd right and i would say that i'd rather have it swing towards uh like institutions that I trust but you know I i I'm gonna get a lot of like for being like a classical liberal in that way yeah but like I would rather not have anarchists on reddit well i think i think i think i know i'm all for i'm in support of new things and new ideas but what I will say is our government has many many many problems most of them having to do with lobbyists and the way money flows through into our government from corporations like Facebook and Google and much worse far worse corporations but i think that like generally are you know I trust the intent the intent of most members of our government and I'm not maybe not Congress and yeah the Senate um maybe not most of that I mean generally I think there are the the Spirit is there that that like you're going watch house of cards yet no I have 10 minutes I have watched do it maybe cuz i've been watching The West Wing I've got this wrong you're alive you gotta watch out the car but our government built America I mean like you know the ask the people did but but this government has been doing American stuff for a long time in like the Republican presidents and Democrat presidents who have done all sorts of great things to build our country into what it is in our best moments the government does amazing stuff in their best moments rather you know and I believe that the I believe that the possibility of government regulating and governing can result in incredible moments for America and for the world in its worst moment it can be a totally destructive horrible force where we know we end up in a war for 10 years for no apparent reason like nobody knows why and we spent all this money and destroyed on me and you remember you remember what the last 10 years ago but by hot but by and large like it's a government design to change slowly because you don't want a reactionary government case the react the wrong way yes there are things that fall the cracking up minimizing or Domitian any were talking about like there's a big right it built this nation because it was slow to screwing things up alright i would say that we we built this we-we-we city on rock and roll but i think that i think that's I mean there's definitely like a kind of rot yeah in the government right now that I think Democrats and Republicans no matter what party are you can be libertarian or whatever you're gonna look at it and go yeah there's a real problem I don't know what American unless you're I don't know who you are that agrees with this this idea that corporations are people and yeah you know that free speech is that money is free speech like those things are that one's much harder yeah that one's much harder kind of its way harder in the case of in the case of anything but who we elected officials I would say yes but when we went when you've got like when it's like a question of who can shout louder I actually think and I'm gonna I'm gonna get a lot of for this and I think when it comes to like our election process for the people we put into office it should be you have a finite amount of money as dictated by the government now you have a finite amount of Titus and like every angle but this actually works in other countries you have a finite amount of time to campaign right and personally this is the more controversial thing i'm sure people be very mad I think it's be mandatory for Americans to vote and I think that you should be fined if you don't vote you should be fined a hundred dollars if you don't vote and there should be two days ago been voting over the weekend not agree with you there and should be done over there any why isn't it not in a like a pony but why is it why is it it's like me wearing this webcast from every week like an asking questions are Native American of your American citizen you should have to say what your point what your opinion is on who's going to make the laws that will govern your life and if you don't want to do that love it or leave it Wow like that I wait I wait I was going hard like liberal socialist and then I just threw it back a little nicer of it and I are we gonna talk about the facebook finally I mean yeah everybody loves the facebook phone who saw this one coming right here right here yeah this guy loved it I'm just I mean I it's a hard hard hard transition here it's not doing it you love it for a different reason I'm gonna help you this transit I love it cuz I'm a socialist and you love whoa fascist I you know person I just don't like the Facebook part of it but I love everything else about the phone you know I like it and that's somebody asked me this it's because I actually use I'll i like using how this is by the way the heart the weirdest transition in the history of the verge i like it i think i but i actually have it set as my lockscreen spin the dour verge can try to share some i like something the first show in the history of the verge Cass did you know have my min dir not really functionality on that by the way I said I like something and it's a like you uh no look you know what I like I like this locks like that I haven't sets that when you push the home button it takes your stocking and I see can i see with how that works yeah you just push down button and takes you to suck but like I mean so there's like three steps to get your phone on I just have to unlock it but here's using you actually like you use your Facebook that much like Facebook is not just authentication tool for you it's actually no actually I've been using is Twitter a lot yeah but i've been using I mean it's funny I didn't using Facebook more now yes see it yes here's the thing they got me a facebook that the the cover feed yes ever they call it god these names yeah the cover feed idea is actually really good good and and in all I wish is that I could just plug in my Instagram and my Twitter yeah I would like Flickr and other way they need from HTC a baby hear the difference no but bland feet but blink flashes blinkfeed is like when Peters got a good well it's it's not the lock screen you can make blank read your lock screen no I don't think so i don't have my phone here's why but here also it's called blink and I and I've come to understand why i like this experience far better than its whatever Samsung does whatever HTC dozen blinkfeed it's because Facebook and Google are two of the best software companies on earth and they write really really tremendously good software yeah so I might not like love using facebook but I'd find the soft they've written to sit on top of Android to be like delightful and fun to use and it makes you want to use Facebook more but then I push the button and I get to use google software and at no point to Samsung's like s team of like hacks getting my way steam steam uh and no point is like HTC's weird idea of what my clock should look like young feed it in my way now I mean the brilliant thing about this phone about the first and about the home concept is is facebook said kind of smartly uh look we don't need to take over your whole phone to be prominent and important but we just need to take over the parts that you use a lot right like SMS yeah and messaging and your home screen your lock screen in your home screen but they also weirdly and on this device I don't understand but I wish I pray I would love for HTC to do this when you turn off facebook home and you turn off the messaging if you don't want it yeah you so it goes we stock give a stock Android device which is what I'm doing it's a good it's like a 4.3 inch screen it looks nice it has LTE it has LTE I'm it has a really great screen it has i will say so by the way benchmarks higher than that than the nexus for my testing well i'm saying i haven't tried any of that yet because i just like using it like not that was right necessarily the only thing it has an absolutely garbage camera camera sarah phone designers get you to use facebook yeah such no i agree they should have made more of an investment in the camera and i will say having used the one now yeah which to me is the absolute i think probably the best smartphone I've ever used yeah I wish it had slightly better battery life but but my droid has been all but abandoned but you like you like going on the 11 camera is great yeah it is I don't know what like it's not gonna say it doesn't take I would say that that I would say that that the iphone 5s images look more filmic they look more like a camera right by a few degrees not crazy but that but the one is I think produces really great results it works really well in low light and and its consumer me has been very consistent yeah it's not the best I don't think it's like the most beautiful camera i've ever used on a phone but it is so much better than most Amber's I've used on especially most Android cameras I don't know what it is but like now we've yet to take ova Lumia it's actually surprising a good camera button does phone in fact is I'm not printing these out i'm not making prints out of my image not taking my phone I'm what I'm doing is I'm putting them on on social network you're heavily filtering them and putting I'm having children I put in my Instagram but you know that you know actually one thing I'll say it's annoying is I i use my i use the one in the widescreen mode because the resolution doesn't change it doesn't go you know most phones when you switch to widescreen mode it goes from like an eight megapixel shot or whatever actually because it's it's it's distributing the pixels differently this is just like it's just prop it's still just a 4-megapixel no its cropping right so it's just cropping it out for the other shots but what's annoying is when you if you take a picture and you put it on Twitter that's the wide screen writer does some weird scaling where it makes the image super tiny no weird yeah like you and I tweeted a picture of the same thing or something one day and I was extremely annoyed because yours blew up to like a 4-3 sighs and mine because it was 69 it like scales are down it never gets bigger interesting yeah it's annoying anyhow but um but the but the first is actually good if it had a better camera i would i would seriously i submit iris place a phone be up besides a new iphone just quickly take over our staff like the first right on in like admittedly like there's a bunch of unions phone yeah we have a week or so these are a lot of these are gonna go back what i want to see is who is going to switch switch yeah I'm on the precipice of doing so I want one in red I've got the contract upgrade I'm not leaving AT&T yeah like when this goes back and I think it's no week's time I'm probably pick up the right but i will just acquisition red i have a baby blue one and i think the baby blue is actually i will say this i mean we get a lot of review units all the time like and they never people don't ever to them yeah they're like they're not have phones on my desk for days and I'm like wow I see ya I like I'm on screen or Sony that's been sitting on your desk for like a week and yeah you don't you interested in it at all I mean it's just not good like I don't want to deal with it but this is great I mean I will say that it is it is pretty funny that Facebook is like here's our first phone we're going to tell you see what to do and they've basically delivered the film that like most of us have wanted for a long time yeah minus is terrible camera and obviously I wish it out of 5 industry oh I will say I will say this you know I was you know I was using an iphone 5 on 80 and my droid on verizon I and I said to say I still the battery life on that thing is still like ridiculous but when you put that next to the one not the first even the first in some ways like kind of yes screen is better yeah that's a screen on screen is better that's about I was in in a hundred percent this was done on purpose but it is built to feel exactly like an iphone oh gx god yes yeah like the buttons are in the same place the volumes in the same place this is blue now it's white it's just so blue in here and it's got like the same ran outside it feels better it's like built a little bit better than wasn't mad back on this no it's great it's like it's like and crack this is like the the cheaper iPhone yeah there's my case leaks of a cheaper iPhone footing around and that's yeah yeah um but it is is a nice little phone and just the fact that you can go to stock is now incredible right okay are we switching gears we're running out of time are we yeah yep people are real mad at the verge cast have been an hour lately they've been really two hours we've been really busy lately and it's really hard to do a two hour yeah or an hour and a half one of these days maybe when Paul comes back when Paul comes back we'll do like a marathon yeah any urge cap that night he comes like we will be on the air with ball yeah just talking to him you're just watching Paul's I'm sorry here's my real concern with Hall come back in you know are you ready yeah we're all excited all I only finally we get to hear you I want to be there with him it's what we want it I want it to be a party I'm excited to have uh huh but i'm sure that while paul wants to do is like jack into the internet and like drown out the world and not pay attention to when he sees how much would be together yeah over this year I mean he's like well this it's dreams nature you know would be amazing free corner you know would be amazing can I can I suggest something yeah can we do this I just had this idea okay what if we could get like you know we're gonna say hey we're gonna make a big deal out of Paul coming back and we're gonna put him on a computer you know we're gonna get him we're gonna film it or something yeah right and we give him a totally fake internet look at where like everything has changed dramatically yeah you know and there's all kinds of weird stuff on it and we're like oh yeah you don't know about flarping I know that is but they saying yeah LARPing it's like LARPing but with FL in front of it or was it happen for ya know to an extra FL yeah a larf local RP it's like yeah any I think with 2 l's um you enjoyed yeah second else I we do that how much effort do you think you would take I'm sure to create a new internet that's where everything is different one of our one of our writers evan rodgers could probably just make that in a weekend yeah we should have happy to have him whip it up okay so now we're going to change gears as you guys know we launched our we launched our science of our science section your science portal this week yeah uh and area what science area science area and and what and in katy dirt spot katie drummond are our science editor is here right yes i was in the rocks refuses to leave i want the key music i want to see there's this video i want see this teaser video oh and then i will magically oh that's what's gonna have a bio so Katie's Katie's going to join us but first take a look at we did at like a little kind of get excited about science on the verge video and and when we come back I did like the idea that you just refuse to leave yeah yeah like I was holes his hand up there's a handcuff like a part of the desk I've been trying he's gonna join us in a minute but watch this and we'll be right back what if i told you that within two years you'd be able to control another person's movements using nothing but your thoughts or that within 10 you'd be able to replace your own kidney with one grown in a lab or that in 30 years you'd be packing the cooler and rallying the kids for a long weekend in deep space these aren't just the dreams of kids and creatives this is our future and it's coming faster than you might think all thanks to the breakthroughs emerging from brilliant curious creative minds across the globe sure it can be tough to wrap your head around when you're not working in a physics lab or an ivory tower of academia but think about it this way discoveries in medicine will let you stay healthier and live longer new electronics will give you instant access to whatever information you want wherever you are and whenever you need it progress in transportation will mean the freedom to travel anywhere on earth in a fraction of the time and those examples are only the tip of the iceberg just bring your biggest ideas and your wildest dreams to the table there's no guarantee that can be achieved or realized today but when you think about it that's the best part science never gives up and never stops looking for new answers all you need to do is ask the question welcome to the verge science and we are back with none other ok I think 80 should say welcome a cage again yeah welcome to verge science is there any echo on this it sounds very bad back let me just turn this that way ok ah Katie thank you for joining us and thank you Joshua wow wow that's thank you verily proper there's definitely not going on there is an echo where is that coming from guys oh yeah you're the worst that's not you John in the in the control room he's a wonderful man actually Katie science what is it science is all about possibility mmm discovery yeah answering questions okay always a new question everyone's trying to find the answer yeah yeah do we know do we know can science prove whether or not God is real no God really starting here welcome to work Katie this is what your drop will be like I'm gonna pass on that could science tell me if aliens exist not yet can science create a an object out of nothing yes good science cuz sorry I don't know I don't know I I don't have a lot of science questions actually no we're very excited so we we've had been doing science coverage on the verge but had wanted to put a much clearer focus on it as you know sure why you're sitting here and I should be telling them this but and and and so it was kind of a painstaking process trying to find somebody who had the right sort of a set of skills to to do to do the science section properly and you actually you're not just a kind of a science person you're also very interested in we've talked a lot about like national security stuff over the last few days obviously she's used to work at danger room sure for wired yet and so you'll probably be doing some of that stuff as well I hope so yeah I hope so too yeah but um what is exciting to you right now from us in terms of science like what's like what's what's the thing that's happening to that you are most excited about like I know there's this discovery today about new new planets sure where aliens live yeah or maybe live yeah and we can go visit yeah and I mean that's well okay um so I'll ask you to go read the story after okay no don't maybe clarify a few things sure we can go visit that you get a little closer to the mic yes yeah and right yeah yeah yeah you got yeah glee Phegley thread this is playing really well um so I think I'm I've always been someone very interested in health and medicine and that's sort of if I had to pick on a niche in science that would be my thing and so I think what I find really interesting right now is regenerative medicine and the idea that we can sort of rebuild our bodies yeah and that that is something that will emerge as a valid option in the next decade um but I saw no I saw the new vein but I saw the most recent spider-man movie and a lot of the plot centers around regenerating limbs and it didn't go well in the film right what happened was turned somebody into a monster no I does that an octopus is that something that we need to worry about that wasn't now that latest one it was Terry turned it turned a attorney guy into a lizard into the lizard the lizard I think it's his name okay it's like a giant man lizard do we need to worry about that when it comes to regeneration body regeneration doubtful okay yeah okay do you think I always feel like you know we ran a story today about um about how rabies is sort of the inspiration for vampirism and zombies sure yeah doesn't it seem and correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't seem like our ideas about what science will do to us are always way more exciting and way less realistic than what science is actually doing to us I mean I think yes and no I think what they tend to be are unrealistic in the sense that I think we want to see results before results are actually ready right um so we sort of hear about a new kidney being regenerated created in a lab transplanted into a rat and we sort of get really excited about that and that is exciting yeah and but we but humans immediately go to the 10 steps later ran our tents eps later are crazy were like oh they they found a way to put an artificial kidney into a rat and then like somebody makes a movie about wow I have an artificial about rap about a giant rats that eat peoples kidneys yeah right uh yeah I the way I mean I would watch that you know we'll get there well then I recalled sorry a rat eating kidneys yeah like ratty like from living people it would look as if that's good feeds on Appa dasha the return know anything about that that's pretty rude an aside like which is what they call the stuff that kills rats oh well that's good I'm so sorry Katie early they just want to hear it well I we look we've the science the science section has been revving for 24 hours and I think you people are very aware of what we're doing there yes you know I don't want to like just rehash the stories we've been telling I want to get to know Katie sure never spoken before we've never met this is our effort this is our first official conversation yeah and and so far you seem great uh but but I you know I think people should know what Katie's but her thoughts are on this rabbit via de road on de Ferran yeah exactly um but yeah we do but we do tend to kind of over fictionalize sure we we get excited I mean science is very exciting well actually we get excited about it but it's important and I think that's something that I'm hoping to make a priority for us at the verge is to sort of obviously report this exciting research that's going on but be very clear in sort of what the limitations are yeah um and be very clear in sort of what just happened this is a rat this is not a person what does that mean right yeah I think one of the things that happens in reporting reporting science is that because extrapolation is easy and when you don't have all the data it becomes even easier and there's almost a laziness to not fully understanding not fully grasping the story like this this planet story today it's we talked about a little bit right now there are a lot of unanswered questions that I think a lot of people and this is not an indictment of anybody else but you you even as a reader I I tend to make all of these leaps and write about what it could mean right without kind of knowing that we did not find aliens you cannot go there okay still very rural really crushing by you know I would say this is really interesting because I when in your intro post and a few of those threads that we have in the forum next ribbon new science forum um there was a lot of conversation about like I'm really excited you guys are doing this but don't please don't be like everyone else yeah like please please tell us what's actually happening how this could actually work because that's what we're interested I think one thing you can count and I by the way this is one of the things that when we talked i immediately got uh when we started talking about you coming here to do the science stuff it was immediately that feeling of your kind of weird the way a lot of people the verge are weird and yeah kind of it kind of a deal a kind of it like a kind of a detail a detail-oriented um overachiever yeah and the tub yes as family know it like it like also also like kind of you kind of had you know you seem you seem unsatisfied a lot of the time with like you like you want to go further which is I think a real thing here that that we are unsatisfied with we can do better yeah i was super annoyed like most of the day Yeah Yeah right now we yeah what were you know maybe we should take this oh just we can always you know yeah i can always do better no I say I never annoyed with yourself not with the world no just high achiever right right and I think yeah like cuz I've never you you're lovely like that I think you're like that I'm uh I will say this new remembers we the night before the night before the section launched you sent out that checklist but I will say this actually I know that's high-achieving but is happy you have a different you take a different approach like I am uh I beat myself up a lot and I think I beat up people around me sometimes because of this feeling of of not you know not adequately inadequacy you're just like we didn't get it or what why did we do this or why didn't I do that I mean I used to say this is analogy time when I used to make music that I would just you know work on music for weeks and weeks with like a band or by myself whatever and then by the end of it I just like this is terrible like I why did I do this like any the thing would always be you could do it better next time but and I think that I feel like I kind of get that vibe from you where it's like okay that was good but we could do better and you seems like you're striving really hard to make things amazing and to tell the full story and to and to paint a clear picture and you do that as well but you have you are heart makers mono yeah that could be that could be it but you you also are you get like a soft side where you you have like this um better appreciation for the need to nurture know and and even like we're a mother hen yeah when it comes to you vote for us in the webbings everyone that's good for a chat I gotta get up it's true that I mean you might the mother and some other stuff gets thrown around a lot with ya statue this weird and also your friends and market we're kind of an irascible somewhat buzz mother I mean here you can be you can be you can be very combative but you know you're kind of like you've got this like this offside that like you're like let's take a moment to to hug hmm I've always hugging me buddy all right can we the verge cast no but at the fine but that is your fun therapy session I like you like this is yeah we're doing right so um psychology real yeah they psychology I shoulda therapy all tonight psychology science Oh Oh God boom there's an area right there that's nice yeah you got to shoot things I shouldn't angry she was thinking yeah you think it I mean it's not like a man i'm gonna get for this I'm just do it I guess I just don't think of psychology and sort of the hard science sense where I think of like biology chemistry physics right psychology is something separate but there's a science to it I mean it's research oriented I mean there are doctors in the field there are sure there are professors I call it right there are but I guess I sort of i make a discussion as well between sort of psychologists and psychiatrists yeah um we're actually running I mean we have a story on deck about the DSM changing we do yeah um we're actually I think gonna have a couple um let's not give it away let's not yeah my big mnemonic Ohio a lot they're gonna be covering but one of the things and I think this is in by the way we have to go I just got in my ear which is Ross now apparently in that he's out in some walk past he's in the background they're like try to fix their you back Jennifer Lawrence too bad because I think you need to come back on and I could stay here all day no I know so could I unfortunately we're being rushed off for some reason I think because of David disappears I think David Pierce is responsible but but UH one of the things about the science coverage is that is that we are and I think if you don't know this you didn't catch this this week and if you haven't been paying attention you know we are obviously our appetite for fields of new fields of coverage and for expanding field of a field of coverages is huge for us and and science is one of those places where I see all of these like it's actually incredible when you start to crack that open a little bit how much everything else is a part of you can classify in this world of science you know how much of a connective tissue it is between topics yeah and I think for us it's been it's been really liberating to have that big bucket yeah and have that connective tissue to to to tap into and so I'm excited very excited about what you're doing with signs and what you're going to do and and I would say to the to the viewer or the listener or the reader get ready get just put your gonna tap into the connective tissue yeah with a scalpel that was with it again with a friend yes siree we're gonna go and we'll be using a syringe and a drill yeah to do that alright so we have three things to plug before okay we had a plot / get ready listen up we're plugging uh you're moderating a whole bunch of Tribeca panels next week oh yeah oh yes we are in partnership with tribeca film festival hosting the future of film sessions at the Tribeca Film Festival and i'm moderating a bunch of panels a lot of have a bunch of panels with some really interesting people including i'm doing a a a three-man panel with David Denby and AO scott who are you should know the names are very respected film critics in that it's called the on the the death of film I think ? yeah i just wanna say i didn't invent the name of that panel but anyway covering and we've already been covering people at tribeca now who are covering films there and will be obviously doing coverage from from these panels where where appropriate but you'll they're going to be doing video and we'll be having the video replayed on the site and stuff so it'll be great if you're at the if you're at the film festival you should try to make it to these panels because we get people from these are really really interesting panels we got people from sony and naughty dog and and and all sorts of distributors and 29 29 entertainment and just like it's me good it's gonna be fine we're doing a lot there um I'm required to say that we're nominated for five webbie's we're nominated voting so we're nominated for five webbie's and close the next week ranging from matter yeah we'd love for your vote uh you don't have to vote but it's appreciated you can go to the webby awards website and search for the verge and you'll see all the stuff polygon is also nominated I would say as gaming sit for a game gaming site and and I don't know what their exact category is but its gaming yeah I think it's actually just gaming they should be vote they should win they should be there they should be voted upon they should be voted for upon upon which we voted with ya go with them go with them and lastly just very simple top shelf is next at five-thirty that's life yeah Topshop's a show that destroyed our great conversation that we're having about busy day yeah it's always it's always busy never stops anyhow Katie thank you for joining us thank you and and everyone and thank you ross wherever you are thank you ross floating in the in the in the sky and and thank you this listener / viewer / reader for tuning in and for making your donations i will see these have gotten increasing station ready that's the verge cast for the week you can if you'd like to get in touch with us you can email us at verge cast at the verge com you can find us on twitter at verge by the way uh verge science at verge science sure interested in that sort of thing in from a twitter perspective yeah uh you can you kids not you can nudge with us um on a second I got my flow broke right you can email us you find us on Twitter uh you can leave a comment in the post when it goes up uh and drum for Donna we're gonna do yeah and also we're all on Twitter yep Katie you are Katie drum to m2m s 2 m's 1e know what drum like the drum that you need there's an e on the end of Katie yes this is why a TI ed are you mmm it was an at symbol in front of it yeah i'm joshua topolsky just which is easy to say and spell and Neil I is reckless yep which is a word smart apparently very smart to choose a word that people know and that's the show for this week we will be back next week I don't know if I'm going to be available because i'll be doing these panels i think i will be though and he'll be back next week and as always i wish you and yours the very best during this trying time buddies actually hmm crappy week Paul you