Gadgetory

Hey and welcome to the verge cast for the week of July 8th yes 2013 2013 I'm Josh Topolsky Pepitone I'm Ross Miller and we're excuse me uh we're back on the boom we're back we're back on the verge cast where we discuss the week in technology culture the culture culture and the culture of feeling does that happen every time you call if your voice just completely I have a totally different set of voices we're back we're Ross and I are sandwiching Nilay in colors in Platt I was gonna say whiteness we're in different gangs he's in the spearmint gang and I'm in the Bloods experiment gang is just once alright let's spread freshness create within being this is the wrong Miller yes sorry secondary Miller Paul Miller is a busily off writing his book in Colorado Paul Miller he's around Paul Miller is around but in Colorado he is he is on book writing stuff book he's on book writing leave and he's actually he's actually gone to Colorado to work on his book so he will be on sporadically yeah but not he's been on sporadic so about the way he's been on nothing new to get used to whatsoever ah still Miller number two though but you're still the second Miller and you can still tweet at him whenever you want yeah you still on the internet yeah I mean as far as we know we don't I just call right Oh get the internet I sell an Xbox there if he's on the Xbox he's on the Internet yeah anyhow oh okay this little housekeeping task and okay so yeah we have a big show a lot of stuff to talk about today was a very newsy day oh just a lot going on actually the whole week has been nuts what do we have what's on our what's our with today let's do it let's start with the things that happen today today today this morning no t-mobile's like that was yesterday oh yeah that's right the no key event was today I finally watched our super kind of John Legere is just amazing and inside yes sorry yes yeah end yeah and I keep asking t-mobile to let me at him yeah so I can talk you think you'd want to talk right yeah just t-mobile get it to get mobile let's be on let's be sensible let's be let's get real with each other okay let us talk to your CEO I mean let me have the wouldn't kill you look what's he gonna do he's gonna swear a little bit it's the worst that could happen he's stripped nude and slaps knee lie in the face of this penis quickly that does seem like but also the best that could happen metaphorically I try to do to 18 t this hold on so this morning was enormous students he's amazing what's imagine no no pants right there just like are you I've been thinking about switching the t-mobile well based on their new plans well my iPhone I've had my 18 t account for years is still the iPhone you've got a new t-mobile okay but there's a new t-mobile SIM in my next interest you see what's called it a nexus well it's basically an access yeah anyway anyhow go ahead but the big news this morning is Microsoft without question the biggest news in the industry this week huge it is huge news so Microsoft has completely reorganized itself which was I think Kara Swisher reported it a few weeks ago that this was like in the works executives have been leaving Microsoft likes like Don Mattrick just left Xbox to go run Zynga before it happened and now they're announced and the changes are pretty major so Steve Ballmer Center on a memo which is I'm just gonna say it yeah one of the worst examples of corporate I've ever read in my life and Wow I mean it's really like he should read it it's like several thousand words it's 2,600 words it was so long that we wanted to put it all in the post enemy's pose yeah and it was so long that we couldn't figure out a way to do it so we threw it in the forums you know I mean I just I'll find some excerpts as we go through the news here because it's so long I have to like go find them but that the top line is basically Julie Larson green who just took over from Steven Sinofsky as head of Windows is no longer the head of Windows let me stop you is there a reason we can't hear each other in our ear pieces why am I wearing the earpiece so they can talk to us right but shouldn't we be able to hear each other don't normally hear each other they've replaced the headphones they're looking into it can they can they hear us the people can the folks the folks out in the in America real people and in the rest of the world yeah greater Europe as I like to think of it just kidding it's very insulting yeah it's actually more like greater it's like Europe is actually really okay if just forget it yeah what's the worst you can at the base of the penis go go on Microsoft go for who knows org charts uh so look she took over from Steven Sinofsky yeah now she's no longer the head of Windows she's a head of devices in entertainment yeah enemy and we talked about this oh I heard a little moan of course we talked about this earlier and and your take on this is Eddie well it's Terry Myerson it was at a Windows Phone you know there's not the head of all of Windows operating systems yeah across that's Windows Windows Phone Xbox that's correct go ahead well we we talked about this earlier and you mentioned that you thought that the the the move for for Julie is is Larson was just two last names Larson green yeah I don't wanna have to say Larson green I don't know which personalize it anyhow algae JLG that the move for her is actually a kind of weird demotion and I have to say you know there was an article in Wired it's sort of like she's the heir apparent but I'm not sure that that's the case when she was a head of Windows that was obvious yeah and and and what's interesting is when you think about in Microsoft are where division uh really just Xboxes and the thing that's making money I mean they're not making money off of right yeah mice and keyboards and but you know their big halo product is the surface they're not really I don't think they're making money on that I don't think it's considered a success by anybody's measurement right and you've got Xbox which is like for a long time was actually kind of a loss leader and it's now I guess turning some profit I would have met at this point it has to be because the hardware's making money because they could be can sell things right there yeah and that's Meyerson again like he's running that right well that's I mean it's like so surface is great but surface has a leader Panos Panay like he's in charge of the surface Xbox has a leader right there somebody in charge of the Xbox hardware and ecosystem yeah like saying your that's great maybe they'll expand in a more device so the future of every company is to make integrated devices right so that's a great project for like it's not she's not in charge well big successes right the future of every company I mean we I don't know because of Microsoft struck a deal with every cable box maker to what Microsoft software on there then it would just be kind of a Microsoft play for the living room or whatever like the old Microsoft well but a new Microsoft yeah but we assume that you make up runners so we assume that you make a box and you put in the living room and then like that's the thing or you make the box and people use put in their pocket software licensing microcell is the last decade the last decade of showing that but on the surface look what's what are we expecting for Microsoft Thank You months obviously they're gonna put out the Xbox which is hardware they build in design that's right they're gonna do a new surface yeah of it that's right a smaller surface and there are lots there's lots of discussion of the surface phone so that's like she has a lot on plate to manage there's our big projects right but none of them are Windows Windows Phone and Xbox software yeah and that's like that's Microsoft that's whatever like those devices are great and I think the future of Microsoft I think when you look at maybe it is with this new streamlined hierarchy you know her role becomes much more important because it is there are really fewer there are fewer spokes in the wheel you know that there's only a few main spokes she's got one of them Meyerson has one of them and Balmer's kind of sits at the top right like they're basically on either side of the equation of the of their of their offerings into your appointment like we are saying like Meijer has more control it's like argue lien Iverson in Microsoft's business do Larsen green for the next six months has the harder job because these are brand new products that he has to sell right now Windows isn't changing that much I think I didn't say I don't think it's a demotion I think it's a weird like she used to be like Steven Sinofsky left it was a big deal the person who replaced him is now not doing that job right and somebody else it is that's the oddest part to me is that the job she was just handed was now taken away from her and maybe she didn't want it maybe she was like I'd rather be doing something else that the internal politics of that I don't know right we don't know the answer but but it anyhow it is a big move for mice but it is also and so the overarching goal is like what you're saying like there's two sides of Micra there's software and devices you know they they're they're line in bombers email is we're one Microsoft which is like Sony's been running around saying they're one Sony for two years as how's that going she's not going so the application of all comes yeah that's it so they they're now organized along functional groups which is the way apples been organized forever and like so Microsoft used to have like office and Windows and like different and now they're just one company with like my apps cloud engineering wonder how much this is really marketing very employee level and how much is just I think this is a big deal how much is just um an organ rearrangement right well I mean I think it's felt that the e like executives are leaving Microsoft right right I think engineers are just being told I mean a lot of people have made a rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic analogy today I mean do you feel like this is a does this feel like a for show or futile or desperation or does this feel necessary I think it's a little of both I think it's a little bit for show it's a little bit out of desperation to get some further control over what's going on in the company I mean I my prayers my impression based on things I've heard from people familiar with the matter yeah and based on my observation my gut feeling is Windows in its current form was it's not considered a success at the company and that the discrepancy between this confusion about RT and the x86 versions of Windows and the way that it's been marketed in the way they've been sold in the way they've been discussed publicly has been a has been not has not been well-received in within Microsoft I think Windows RT like at this moment is an enormous failure I mean Windows RT is from what I can tell and correct me if I'm wrong but it appears to be a completely failed product yeah yes like I can't see I'm not sure I mean I know they are C ran today that we're cutting the price of women and I know there are people who have the surface and I think the surface the RT version of the surface has a lot of good qualities yeah but in the grand scheme of what Windows is trying to look you've got Windows Phone on one side which seems to be getting a little bit of a foothold we talked about this earlier - it's getting market share just you know it's number three yeah gain market share because of course because blackberry is lost market share but also because they're they're getting better at making stuff and people are starting to go like hey this is a viable alternative but so you've got Windows and then you've got you've got Windows Phone and Windows those are the real products yeah and Windows RT is like this sort of you know it's just like a man without a country yeah it's basically like who's the user for that it's a really specialized user I don't think developers are flocking to it I don't think anybody's making hardware for it I think so if one piece of hardware it was a big but that was the big thrust of the the start of Windows was the surface and Windows RT you think about the way they rolled it out it was first announced Windows on arm at CES yeah it was literally just Windows on a new processor and they're like this is a big deal no they made a big deal out they basically made it sound like in not too long of a time yeah we're gonna be all arm we're gonna be Windows just gonna be an arm operating system we ran a lot of stories at the end of like window yeah and what happened was the arm part was a total fail nobody's really adopted it nobody seems to like it hardware makers don't want to make stuff for it Microsoft hardcore Microsoft users are pissed about it yeah and every is going to 80 X 80 the x86 version and they're making the x86 version more like traditional Windows yeah you know they're I really I don't want to go back down this rabbit hole de beber spelunking down recently but I really don't understand why the by that why that surface RT wasn't just like the Metro tablet Oh God you know you know it's funny it's today you know in sort of at the end event like everybody kind of extends around like chats for a minute before everybody disperses and we like that conversation came up like you've got Windows Phone no he put out the 10:20 today which is like a fairly interesting device because it's insane camera and it's like they should have just called all of this metro like down the line right here's our mobile operating system it's metro or whatever the name would be MIT doesn't have you Metro right could have been and they just completely convinced it I mean they just if they you know look Microsoft seems to be really psyched on Apple strategies given they're given a reorg today if they really wanted to do what Apple does they would have just said this is gonna be our mobile platform this is for tablets and phones and it is gonna have like a bunch of compatibility with our desktop but our desktop is gonna be something totally different which would have given them the flexibility to focus on like an actual like with Windows Phone you do get the impression they've been able to focus on making a better mobile platform they're like hey there's stuff that was broken in version 1 we're gonna fix it in the next version and they did fix it and it's like now you've got this weird problem where you have to be fixing something that's very similar at the same time that isn't really getting any attention like you've got to worry about RT and x86 for the same platform that isn't the same platform and you've got to worry about Windows Phone it's like why not just have that mobile platform scale up yeah when your phone is done right and it works great and that's what Android is do yeah well but I'm saying yeah but I'm saying that the basic idea is that the underlying the core is and the UI and everything else is all just mobile only I think a lot in the last selling point was always be like well arm has been processor but then with as well like that's become like the last thing that just doesn't matter anymore right with the new chips I mean I mean it's my MacBook Air has any indication though it is a larger device I mean but still the battery life is getting there it's not the same as arm but it's getting there right it's yet perplexing man I really wish I really wish we could have seen what it would be like had there been this divide of the mobile of Microsoft mobile if their line was always no compromise the compromises they have no they don't have success with that device right why compromise success right they thought they could differentiate by Sigma compromise right here's a thing that turns into another thing like that did not it hasn't worked let me just give you one Ballmer line here please do we will plan across the company comma so we can better deliver compelling integrated devices and services for the high-value experiences and core technologies yes around which we organize high-value experiences it's just like you could have I love high-value experience Annette like this this is a really important memo that he sent to a lot of people that got out to the press the millions of his customers are reading they published and it reads like he published it yeah but he sent bit like a great right it's out in the world right and it's like you should have made this half as long yeah but easily half maybe even a quarters it's like one word for everything do you think I like Ballmer but do you think there's any chance you know it's literally it's like I think they have like 10,000 employees yeah it's like it's more than that yeah Microsoft has a lot more than 10,000 employees it's like 50 is it maybe 690 thousand plus over 30 that was who has 10 we have 10 I was just in my mind I mean maybe in 1985 they were you watching pyres of Silicon Valley by any chance no idea where that I don't know where it came out yeah yeah but they only have about like 8 times more than that yeah yeah right look okay so what else what else today then the Nokia everything else which was I think very in Lumia 1020 when which is by the way like 1020 it's like it's like that's got a 720p display right yeah yes so it's like it's weird because all these phones don't have 1080 screens and now they have this they're not they're naming convention is really bad they need to have names for phones I think numbers are not the way to go in my opinion so it's like the 1022 Lumia and okiya which by the way you Lumia 1020 I kind of stumbled over BIA Lumias app or something let me a click that's what I'd call I will say Lumia click it's so Lumia Photon yeah everyone kept saying Nokia zoom which like not a bad name the Nokia zoom the Lumia let me start the beginning full credit to Nokia today yeah for putting on maybe the best press event I've been to in the past like wow or to really see was it was like a shanty town disaster committee event today no I mean not just because I oh yeah a little bit better shorter shorter was less insane and not just because there was a power to ethernet like that's like journalists stuff like I'm talking like the staging and execution of their event there are some like awkward parts and like Ivonne who's kind of a weird presenter sometime yeah but they opened with like there was a transparent screen that we thought was the real screen and we thought like you loft would be standing like a foot away from us mhm but that was a projection screen and then he was behind it oh and there was another screen behind him so there was like three layers or stuff happening Wow and it was so cool-looking that Dan initially thought that it wasn't real but he was looking at a 3d display to correct liveblog dan was like they've turned on a 3d display in 3d Elop is walking around actual like there are some weird stuff when we can talk about the poor Dan they're all wearing fu I try to catch things really raining on the sparkles they look like sparkle no no no that means that's from Taylor Swift one two three I don't quote Taylor Swift no it's when I went to the Sony and so anything we see it sparkles on us but they're shooting a 3d cameras we're wearing 3d glass don't know I wasn't yeah and now we're seeing the greatest showmanship yeah that was great and then at the very end of it the second set of screens open yeah to reveal the gigantic like hands on garden very well they spent a lot of money yes but the bag going from it one we focus entirely on the camera it was phone for 20 minutes yeah like they just didn't say Windows Phone or app or software I think I saw Sascha Segan tweet like does it connect to the which is amazing like this is a hardware launch they were they were down to talking about how when you shake the phone you can hear the ball bearings and the image stabiliser move around is that good you know I want to click what I do it's 300 yeah they launched the phone Mona but like it was no I saw this oh look they have a grip I didn't have you compare it if you compare to Samsung how samsung launched it is this just a samsung phone camera isn't it doesn't actually have that grip that's just an add-on yeah so you put in a thing it gives you 50% more battery bay so if you look if you think about how samsung wanna see s4 why would I want a phone that's like the size of a camera because it's like that's why do I have a phone so I don't have to have a camera right it's a 41 megapixel camera anyway they can't like maybe can't really do anything to Windows Phone like Samsung can say like look we put all those crops literally s4 is like look we made this hardware don't think we're right it's a gigantic screen surrounded by plastic yeah you can yeah but you can like look at all the dumb we did with the software right Nokia's like we can't do anything the software right we went all-in I got in this crazy actually 41 megapixels it's not it's a 41 megapixel my going to do the 40 where the photos are 10 megabytes a P 10 megabytes apiece Jesus but they're locked into the pro camera app so all the other apps on the phone the camera roll gets access to five megapixel right like I'll ensure interpolated like I like shareable images look I'm gonna say this is gonna be my Instagram's look amazing so yeah every time I Instagram have Instagram every time no it has no internet but every time I Instagram a picture there's somebody without fails like what phone is that yeah and it's like dude it's it's something actually pointing this out of my last one there like s41 iPhone it doesn't matter it's an Instagram like it is this big and it's got a fencer on it and it doesn't matter how good the camera is like yeah exactly but like so it's 41 megapixels yeah yeah they spent a lot of time talking about zooming you know which is like a lie because the camera doesn't actually digital but it has 41 megapixels it's even less horrible digital zoom yeah right yeah but like everything still looks like super fringy zoom zoom is not I can't tell you the last time I used a zoom phone actually I have used a zoom function the digital zoom function well you're desperate it's like here's what they've done they've made the best digital zoom ever yeah cool yeah it's cool it's neat but like no I don't know I don't want it I don't think that I don't think that most people are like man I really wish I could take a picture of a factory and then zoom in to see I was saying there's like fry Adam I thought the other day I just told you this in our front page call I thought for a moment I was like what if I just went all-in on Microsoft like just yeah switch to a PC yeah you know got like a surface or whatever and and or whatever laptop I thought was good and you know got a Windows Phone and just moved over migrated all of my calendars and all my con and everything out off of Google and I was like you know maybe that would be cool that could be cool and then I remembered maps yep and then I just completely remember the fact that the Windows Phone mail client destroys Gmail you maybe I just the whole thing I just like I started then I started realizing of all the route Prakash the real world repercussions right and and I decided that I couldn't do it but I have to say it is it is weird to think that like I'm now trapped essentially buddy trapped trapped by Google yeah you know that's why this is why it's so frustrating we start about this but they're making all these changes to their apps and stuff I know I'm Segway an out of Microsoft but but it is annoying that that when you're a user of I mean particularly with Google Apple does the same thing I mean iOS 7 is great example you're gonna get at the iOS 7 update you're gonna be like what's going on yeah like why is it like this this is not what I bought rice is something totally different like Gmail is like they've changed Gmail on the on the phone now and it's like not as good as the last version and it's annoying to use in some ways and there's nothing I can do about it I find the GB can't do anything about it better than the Android version right now like it says we're cut I'm sorry I mean we really I guess you like waiting for things to load yeah it's ah I mean the nicer user interface it does but it still is it's not but anyhow so let's finish it's not nearly as thick as you might expect the camera sticks out a little bit yeah the photos that it takes are like they have the new optical image stabilization that they introduced me it looks ridiculously huge it's not as big as that yeah that's kinda nice looking I don't know it kind of looks pretty good um you know if they had this running Android that would be there are two moments like like really amazing nokia yeah won't you make an Android phone I mean is really something you this blank piece they don't have an exclusivity deal with with my question a hundred times today and we were told that like no she has its earnings coming out next Thursday so they can't like their base like our people can talk about anything except yeah I would buy an Okie Android phone you know so it was on stage they're like why do you house Microsoft and he was like well we knew this would be a challenge and we think the Android landscape is really harsh and he said something really interesting he said we used to think about Android as a competitor but now we only think about a certain hardware manufacturer as a competitor mm-hmm obviously referring to Samson well you can put it any way you want I was like dude if you were running their same platform like you would really be competing with them no that's the thing you're you're bound to sell more Nokia phones running the platform that people want than otherwise right right you know it's like you get both things working against you you're fighting an uphill battle because you have no brand presence and I am what they're saying is they want it they want Windows Phone to be a big success and they want to be the Samsung of Windows Phone that's actually Samsung will probably sell Windows oh no Samsung swear those phones I mean I mean they are the Samsung of Windows Nokia's like congratulations you're the Samsung Windows the problem is your market share is like single digits right they've got it they've got to overtake iOS somehow right or the entire power overtake unit if you want to elite who's ever taken iOS like Windows Windows Phone like in terms of how many handsets they said a lot but I'm saying like setting a goal that's less than we want to go from 3 to 2 but we want to go from really bad 3 to media basically what they're doing right I guess they went in four to three next thing is high three went from there were only at four because they literally didn't exist before that right like they did okay I understand are you arguing for or against the Nokia Android device I mean I would if they ran if they made this camera with it with an Android like on an Android phone yeah be incredible what do you need for Windows Phone to make this work or Nokia augmenting Windows our dollars go back at this this is it's like oh all the ecosystem these are all the apps that are they don't have need to be there all the ecosystem needs to be working who was that it's my way oh geez okay she's cool with you all me to anyone wasn't on mute brand-new I just got it yeah yeah oh sheesh we talked about this well let's finish the 10:20 that's it are there anything else $383 by the way my hands they're really pushing their luck with that right and it's only an ATT will forget about freedom and they don't have enough costumers there's this moment where I actually kind of like wanted to hiss during the press conference yeah but I was sitting too close to like loudly hey Olivia come out he's like we loved working with Nokia on this project I want to be like what did you do did you go there did your camera engineers show up yeah yeah it's looking good but we just want to check out this camera do you have you seen our pan text we want to make sure this is up to 18 t camera standard the Q&A there was a was I think the forest woman had asked about 80 cuz they she talked so that was the best question like again best press event ever like swell stage well-managed and then the QA forced a research right she was like horse sir yes was that what it was as for sir like for someone anyway yeah yeah she goes someone why the hell are you working with a TMT they've been a terrible partner for you I tried to buy an Illumina phone they didn't know anything about it and their service sucks yeah and elop who is one of the best media executive media trainings very very wise for a second and said the answer are there is an answer that's more about Nokia than 18 t and he went on to talk about how like there was a big opportunity for Windows Phone they had educated consumer right I was like no dude the calls drop no but I will say I will say in eel ops defense I've been to a lot of these press events or trade shows or whatever where or conferences where somebody gets up and they've got you've got like to book yeah you know it's like your question to Tim Cook you can ask him anything you want you're like how come my AT&T services so I've actually heard people do this at conferences how come my AT&T service is so bad it's like you blew it dude I don't care I don't care how bad your I I don't care if you're a teen he service like sexually assault you in the night okay there's your nor easy to ask that question at that time by the way a tea service can do that I'm ashamed to say you the face with videos yeah it does all the crazy camera stuff for the video too you can zoom on the video yeah look it's a really nice camera right it happens to run Windows Phone hmm it has the the weird grip thing that you can put onto it it turns it into basically Micro Four Thirds camera how much does that cost it's like $79 terrible I mean look it's fine yeah you've already spent 300 off that phone like you're it's more than a Power Shot get a point shoot for cheaper so that's the thing I mention this in the live vlog it's like all of the apart from the insane size of the sensor like not the physical size for the 4000 megapixel almost all of this technology is like point-and-shoot level right technology right it's like they have optical image stabilization which a $79 point-and-shoot as they have manual controls which is said they built a really nice point shoot camera and they put Windows Phone on it right and because they can't put a real lens assembly in it they like they did this thing where they built a crazy 41 megapixel sensor which is cool there's a new there's something I have to say I there's something unappealing to me about this combination and I'm not sure why but I think what's really striking is what Apple was able to do with the iPhone 5 with its camera which to me is just far and away with it just the best phone camera I don't know why it just is really really good legitimately this cameras better no no I'm sure it is just I'm sure it is I know this is what I was getting at I'm sure it is but in order to do that they had to graft another device onto the back of a phone and I feel like the phone should be a thing unto itself in the sense that if you can't like I don't want to phone this half camera because you don't couldn't figure out how to make a better small sensor that could do something they could make him cry could create incredible photos and I think they did do something new right I mean like what Samsung did they did a second generation of this technology which it's also Samsung just did this they made a camera but they so look if you look at the Galaxy camera which when you put this thing into its battery grip you should you can compare them one for one right like they look the same this is obviously better but if you might kind of for as a camera is wildly different right the Galaxy camera is like a regular camera it has like moveable lens you can it has optical zoom right it's a point-and-shoot camera that runs Android right this is like Android cell phone or so Windows Phone like a cell phone but it has this insane camera that can approximate what a point shoot can do and like because it doesn't have a lens assembly like that it has a it is not just like a cell phone camera is that protrusion but no II know it's a little it's a disc sitting on its on bring one back for us no I tried the all ones really beautiful yeah I'm pretty into the yellow one of the yellow graphite and just white Park and yellow yellow black white I thought that the black looked kind of things your graph ID color it's like a you know it has are gonna get grey it's like a dark grey oh yeah it's cool I mean look it's real cool the ant if you love Windows Phone you try but that's the problem like that's the answer if you love Windows Phone you should buy this phone yeah right God if you don't and if you're committed to any other operating system like it's still not but not there still is on a compelling you don't think it's compelling enough like that versus the iPhone 5 you're not gonna go like if you have an iPhone 5 and you love it you're not gonna be like Windows Phone is so is so on harbor iPhone 5 experience right that this additional hardware is worth the the switching cost right and that's look I basically asked even aloft that question like 10 times in a row for 10 minutes and he had a variety of different stock answers but that is his company's biggest channel oh yeah yeah if there was an ipod touch of rain of this like it's not cellular I would pay couple hunter like it's a nicer point shoe it's slim like I can tether and get the stuff up there so you want like I actually think a smart camera is nice I would defend that but I don't wanna put on the contract and like have to pay that monthly $300 they MT service what is it off contract 700 yeah do it yes I mean I mean that's the price of the galaxy s4 on there's no Instagram so like right which we ran and I've know vine is ironic there will be like yes soon no no something else that's missing so we just ran this like wildly reviled piece about Instagram and like the future of like photo yeah in like I'm watching how I see the people in my life use photos now yeah and we ran a piece from James bærum about it which is the reason it's so Graham is powerful is because let's you take the photo share it and look at other people's photos like all in one interface hmm and that's like that's what the people yeah I just don't get the impression that people are editing iMovies anymore like I feel like it's like if you have kids and you are taking videos of them or whatever you're not putting together elaborate edited things you're doing like just quick hits of what's going on in real in real time you know that you're doing or you're doing like I shot two minutes of my kid doing something and then I uploaded it to YouTube and I put it on Facebook or I uploaded it straight to Facebook right you know and and I just don't even know how out the other thing makes sense like you're gonna sit people down to watch the movie like the grandparent the grandparents those tools have a place right yeah what I'm saying is they built a really awesome camera yeah without the key tool right they're still lacking the key to it that is making smartphone a grand will happen eventually within I'm sure within six months what's their ego they're like we don't we really don't know when it's coming up well there are other ways to share photos I mean that's it's not the only way to share so we're in Twitter you can share just on Twitter you can share on Facebook you can share on you could do you know on YouTube right yeah at one point you know they're like and we have a great new app called agua and you can share directly to ogle yes dude what like what these occupy there like you can divide clone integration is built-in can ever just like I'll go the new hipster gram Hipstamatic hips the Mathematica now shared of both ogle and Instagram that was a big announce you can use Hipstamatic to share that and Instagram on Windows Phone yes so so here time attic shares the Instagram yeah oh well there you go but I don't think you can do that I don't even see instagrams interface janky but I guess there's something you can do yeah whatever maybe you can share all right moving on yeah so so speaking of crimes and speaking of colors so I've been going back and forth I have the review units of the and I this is my galaxy s4 yeah I put a torrent I've been using a one and then and then the stock versions came out and I've been for the past two weeks have been torn going literally going back and forth right everyday like swapping my sim and trying to decide so I now I think I've reached a point where I'm saying I think I think what is my clone I think that I think that I'm going to get the s4 for like real your iPhone I hear the things that happened I was like okay a few days ago a few days ago I had I was using this for and I was like screw this I'm getting the one and I went I went back to the one I was like I just want to check it out before I place my order and I was using it and and and it really started to bother me like that the screen seems smaller and that it didn't have a home button and that had that menu bar yeah and there were just things that started bugging me about it that I had not noticed before using the s4 the only at this point I think the screens are sort of negligible wrong absolutely wrong the screen on you know there's a piece of drugs the more I think it's a piece it I think the one has a little edge the one does have a little edge that screen is bad every time you scroll text on that screen like it's like I have a nose I think that the one has an edge it is it does have it is less saturated and and we're Samsung we make the displays and we picked the shittiest ones that we make anyhow to put in our biggest margin so so they're always little but I think that here's what it comes down to this is what's what's troubling me this moment is I think that the one has better low-light photography capabilities but I think that it's general photography when put side by side with this lineup on a bright day or in well-lit scenes I actually think this is a superior camera so I'm torn this has a night mode but the night mode is like kind of not that good but it is passable two questions so far so I take a lot of night photos the other day I mean I'm just saying I don't I take pictures for myself not as a social video platform that lets you co-create sync and edit multiple views of a shared moment finally Louis I take most people's I take I don't share an Instagram or anywhere else you understand what I'm saying like they're they're just photos of things that I'm taking right so I just want them to look okay so so anyhow but I think I've decided to buy the s4 and and the main I think the main motivator is is this that's that's it no because the phones are basically both really good the screens bad the phones are basically both excellent phones in my opinion right okay honestly like it side-by-side they're both really good phones but I at first if I really like this little like fold 'back thing that they make for it you can replace the backs on it and I have found several insane like chinese-made backs for the s4 here's one of them I told you not to show the listing because I don't want anybody else to find I don't see heard you at that point Evan don't show the listing this is one back that I George just Jordan don't show the listing it's too late yeah you've exposed me show the other one which i think is really dope do we have it we don't have it no I don't have it okay fine well I sent another one anyhow so I please sign it but I've been looking for all these insane backs I ordered a green one which I cracked yeah flexing it which isn't hey I posted a picture of it on Instagram yeah I did post that audience yeah and then the I ordered these and a fake leatherback one it's a new one so here's the thing I think the view one this is one of the most annoying things about this case is that cover the cover covers the camera I know that Samsung makes one with up with a they may have one that has like a little window no I think it comes to colors know that I had an orange one an intern went and got me an orange one and then I was like that's the wrong one and he returned it yeah they make oh there it is that's the other case that I got which I think it looks amazing it's not a case I'm sorry these are the backs so it's like a 100% part of the phone when you put it on widget because I hate cases right so but isn't is a texture it's not it's not a slimy then like it's slimy that this one is less limey it's let's no no this one's way less slimy also color where does s4 is now yeah which is like it's so anyhow the long and short of it is the cameras have there's pros and cons hold on let me finish there's pros and cons on bogeys there's pros and cons on both cameras okay what does actually know about instance I know what the third-party Instagram app it's still not the Instagram app like oh my god this Windows Phone version of every app that you could possibly want yeah yeah it's like it's like instant chat like it's like no I know I know it is called what is it called instance it's not what people yeah it's alright it's what people want Instagram anyhow but getting back to my phone play the booty boils down to is this both of these phones are great phones in my opinion but they both run this exact same version of stock Android which is great they have there are pros and cons right like the pros on that is like the hardware is way nicer than the s4 last by leaps I actually made a list of pros and cons I know the hardware is way nicer the sound is better the screen has the screen is so much fine the screen is so much better yeah the camera does are stupid the camera does great low light the kind of I know grain buttons are stick and then you've got the cons which is like the buttons are poorly placed the not having a home button is I mean not having a third button is really stupid what's the the actual power button location like the mall right so that's the more I had that what's happened I think that's I thought yeah no I know but I'm saying the more is so the other things are like like you can't replace the battery and these phones are they're not like you know the greatest with battery life it's kind of cool to be able to swap at the battery and I like the fact you can change the backs the cons on this one are really that the low life photography isn't that good and the screen is nothing it's okay I think it's actually a pretty good screen when you compare to old compared to old but just it's very simple when you have a flagship smartphone in your hand the lead product front company and you scroll the text and it's blurry I don't that's bad I honestly don't I'm gonna challenge you a little bit on that and just say I have never noticed text being blurry when scrolling it also when it's scrolling what does it matter what it look like it's it's bad it just looks bad I've not had that experience I will say this both these phones both stock versions of these phones are very bad at regulating their brightness very bad yes both require a third-party app this app lux which I talked about in the last verge cast to properly regulate the brightness of these screens I will say this screen is really annoying when you don't have the brightness tweaked because it's way down right and it's like it looks even worse that one is too bright yeah my twins yeah you need to get lives but the fact is so anyhow I think I've made my decision and and I'm a little bit I'm a little bit scared that I'm gonna regret as soon as I place the order and again you like comes back through and one app extreme yeah no I know wait am i showed you when I showed him the orange case he was like oh god if I made the wrong decision no and literally like now you feel like you've made the right like I got this and I opened a box yesterday and I was like ah about this one yeah and then what do you think like here's what I think you like device is these two devices aside yeah my experience with Android going from a nexus 4 to this device and just one day it's been like they run the same we're yeah right but on the the Nexus for feels really heavy to me in like dark wide it's why no but like just running Android on it this our Lee feels like super techie for some reason okay like it's like it's like a very like it just feels heavy and on this phone it's like it's with the phones faster yeah and everything feels like a lighter and more area it's like a really weird visit I think it's it's all the hardware at this offer is exactly the same yeah and that's like that's been a revelation here's my you just one question though he's my dad to you why not wait for the Moto X just to see what it is everything I've heard about the Moto X leads me to believe that it is not going to be it's going to be kind of a mid-range device mm-hmm well that means it's gonna have a 720p display yeah and I'm certainly not going down to 720p and it has if it has a bad camera than like at any point butter to your eyes no it matters this is not I really think you're really think you're you're I think parking on a pixel layout that I've been harshing on for like three years I do not think this green I really do not think this green is that bad give me give me your phone let me open I want to see map side by side well am I the only one who actually has some hope for the Moto X here it sounds like it um oh wait whatever no you have yo you have the new maps Oh perhaps new maps no I have the old maps yeah all maps I really want the new maps I don't think that'd be a good idea hold on so let's just see here zooming in your screens brighter of course it looks better white green wide your screen so doctor looked at notifications it's on auto price sending it no he's not sending a tweet here well what will make your hair will go to riveting television on the audience still bright I love the narration scroll just scroll the top wait let me get your screen to an equivalent brightness he is looking at porn on Eli's phone your screens bluer I can see that our it's greener that's the porn yeah I'm just trying to get this is I I don't have locks in a headlock somebody I know I know okay hard I'm just gonna scroll scrolling it just watch look at the text just like shatter and it's weird just trust me this is thrilling in person I'm telling it's not yeah I mean I can't unsee it I'm telling ya I don't know it just doesn't that just doesn't bother me at all it's fine look we all have that it's that it's just not ready fans yeah I mean I can't I can't do it my eyes like ah gross stop it but it's the motion on screen is bad and these enemies know about running through the panel's for years it's been like re this is a good processor let me just scroll through the absol past the other the other the other things and I remembered that I now I you know and I said I complained about this I've complained about it for a while I wanted a phone with it I didn't like it on the one and now I'm so reminded of how incredible it is I'm how incredible it is okay the the colored the RGB LED on this when you use it with light flow no it is incredible - I can glance at my phone and I know like I've got some tweets I've got an email from this account from that account I've got a text message and not have to know all of that just by glancing at a little light on the phone it's kind of incredible okay anyhow so so I think at the end of the day see the peers the third week in a row where we've talked about these - yeah that's depressing and yeah so I'm buying the s4 and I'll have to suffer the consequences what's most annoying is I have to set up another phone I've set up these - yeah now I have to wipe them and go set up another moment I guess that's it there are you happy everyone and of course now Jim Dalrymple will write a scathing a scathing post on his on his Apple fanboy site about how I'm on the take from Samsung as I said I'm going to buy one of their phones so get ready everybody get ready trolls yeah - unleash your fury god I hope that sense of money tastes good I I'm gonna spend Samsung money to buy the Sam Sam sweater it tastes like Magna Carta hold it tastes like that's where I'm going because you know that's Samsung money right there yeah you know just like you had the best transition I did I'm trying to figure out what part of this disaster to go into let's start from the beginning just start so Samsung I'm just checking my releases new record mhm right they're gonna give it away with an app to all these Samsung phones one of them yes a million of them guaranteed to go platinum right away for billboard or no for R is a really good Lumia name to me Lumia focus oh good yeah EAL up thank you laughing that's uh Marciano yeah alright at Marcy plan that's where the royalties go yeah right so that guy go on Jay Z app the thing leaks anyway mm-hmm the record leaks anyway the app is kind of a weird disaster it doesn't work on the Rubin crashes a lot it asks for all kinds of insane permissions from you right apparently are apparently our chap does as well which is I don't know if that's I don't know why that is I think that's probably some sort of weird it might be laziness we're not collecting we're certainly not collecting informations and then the worst part is to unlock the lyrics you have to tweet like I just look read these lyrics from this app right and so people like there's like lots of you know once one person jazzy like said he literally said this is not cool like yeah this is a lot of things he said it wasn't cool and that but he actually was kind of it's interesting what he said which was I've got a like you know I we tried something it didn't work perfectly and the next guy will get it but even this line from Jay Z utterly insane it was twenty million hits for the app and it broke no one is expecting it there's no way in the world for you to calculate twenty million in yeah it's not even a number you can fathom you cannot prepare for a service million 20 million of anything are you rep oh because he's going to rap genius.com his lyric just to yeah I guess it's not right Pina song meetings work to it but this is what it is there's a specific lyric why rap genius you're failing me rap genius what song what song whose a rap genius in the hot start up man thought it was one of his lyrics and I will say this this record is like it's not it's okay because lyrics is like 1 million 2 million 3 million 20 million I'm so good at math fathom that I don't know how ok anyhow like this is much better - yeah and the thing I was doing right 1 million 2 million 3 million 20 line oh I'm so good at math my crash the internet and I even interested wait no spaces ends with him saying twerk Miley Miley twerk which is an amazing way to end so he he says 1 million 2 million 3 million 20 million oh I'm so good at math might crash the internet and I ain't even into that might crash the internet cannot prepare for a service the Internet so make sure that doesn't happen because he's not I repeat not into this did you listen the record yeah listen to yet it's ok I actually really don't like jay-z at all so I never care I think it's safe to say that jay-z and Kanye West should always work together yeah I will say that like Jesus has become now that I've learned more of the lyrics of he's like the first time the first few listens I wasn't really listening I said this on one of the on the versions I said it's it's musically and lyrically bankrupt and and the more you listen to it the less inventive the music sounds because once you hear the music you like oh I've heard it now and then you know it's like it's not surprising then you start to really focus on the lyric yeah and it is like punishingly stupid yes like a like like I'm I don't know if he's trolling everybody really I have magical thing where he was like the whole point of this record is that kanye doesn't care what his lyrics mean I read that but I read some other stuff that was really great about about just like critiques of the lyrical content yeah no it is like it is like it is just so weird to me how stupid it sounds just dumb so I was like a dumb guy I don't think he's a dumb guy no no he's not so that's why I'm trying to figure out if it's some sort of elaborate role so kind of a tangent I just saw I think yes I just let's read it's called Jesus I think so no I just I just read twice loves me more mo meta Blues oh yeah really good hi Loretta Questlove oh yeah he has an extended passage on Kanye West this isn't like nucleus time like um when he came out on the scene it kind of left and center and thing like that on me request was talking about he loves so much was like unlike other rappers Kanye knows he's materialistic and he just wants to flaunt and he look at that like will you listen the earlier lyrics which were clever like it was embracing it now he's like the keys record is literally about him buying the fine art oh it's literally him being like he did as profound an abaya Rothko yeah there's like a a Basquiat in my in my kitchen my child leaned on it rhymes he runs like it's like ridiculous but maybe I subset it that is really obsession rhymes it thinking he's still street Kanye is like I'm just buying no jay-z's like bored like he's like I'm gonna rap about how incredibly rich I am yeah what else is going on for him just being rich honey being like you trying to be like shocking about race relations like no that's good I'm glad the shocking is about race stuff is amazing it's the stuff that's around it it's like one line really great point about race relations in America when it's Donette for the next line everyone about people dying about 19 rich women in the Hamptons and it's like we all both of those people know are we all both both I'm 100 I'm 100 percent Hamptons honey it's so close every time the one that killed me the most why are we talking about Jesus Jesus look no one could have predicted we always in ten years of the verge cast you can't prepare five and what else we out our laughs oh my god okay Apple eBook yes yes I believe book prefix 484 so poor poor Apple the day the App Store turned five oh right which is a big deal right yeah distri change Casey wrote it was Casey right yeah a great piece about the Apple the App Store turning five and Apple basically changing the world again I will say this like the iPhone changed the world I don't care who you are I don't care where you're from it changed the world in a lot of ways and and and I think that it's almost like you forget that but most people don't even know it doesn't want most people who have an iPhone but you forget that this apps were a thing that had to happen yeah and and also we almost didn't write Steve Jobs yeah like really resistant he didn't want to do it and and and you have to say like you got to say that the homebrew community really drove this yeah I mean the jailbreakers you know and they don't get the credit and I feel like they really deserve it I think that the jailbreaking community drove Apple to do this in a lot of ways I think they saw it was possible but I mean I think they also realized that if they didn't do it somebody else was going to write you know and that it would become increasingly easy which it had it had become increasingly easy to just jailbreak I mean I remember there was like Ashton Kutcher was yeah he was like tweeting about jailbreaking his eye allenge yeah oh that was that was what I was like a challenge in his nerd his nerd cred has it having become an advisor to Vox media I believe he hasn't heard correct but uh no I don't he still hasn't built a PC which I'm waiting for all I'm gonna I'm gonna maybe it's just some point the future of it opportunity to talk to him about that developing his own PC that's the challenge ask him Eric Cooper no was it he was gonna build a time machine yeah that's not to go back in time and kill earlier build a time machine and then go back in time to kill Hitler yeah to prove that he's got nerd cred well he did now he has started as Steve Jobs in a movie yes Oh which comes out next month yeah I know he has a computer in Two and a Half Men he definitely has what I've seen images of him carry carrying around here anyhow the point is what are we talking about - enough men no before that oh the AppStore Jesus does he listen the user son - it happened the bombs what does he think of blood on the leaves the point and justice among that by the way another another killer jay-z lyric I don't pop Molly I rock Tom Ford Tom Ford like that lyric doesn't get high an ecstasy gets high on fashion oh that's for his money because he can spend he can for taxi Dez but well oh it's just collapsed I mean if I yeah the point was that Ashton Kutcher was tweeting that he's jailbreaking his iPhone because this is pre app story you know yeah and I think it was pre app store and anyhow the point is that I think that those guys really drove a lot of this well it was it was a revolution revolution because the idea was there right you can do apps on the palm you do have some Windows Mobile you can in you can they crack the crack super apps and the BlackBerry just like eff let me it's great frameworks like look you're not gonna do everything in system but you have this app do whatever you want self-contained like yeah and they made the store Mikey was the store right the distribution and the payment the the you know the the centralized like experience of the store how you doing over there I'm just reading some tweets yeah I don't know so anyway somebody said that somebody's Apple have more than 30,000 employees so me just that they have 80,000 that does sound right it sounds insane let's see Google away Ross it could be right there that's fine Ross the very usefulness was 30 I want to come correct I just don't want to be wrong on that yeah I guess and 30,000 at one point the same day they saw bright of the App Store got handed a brutal verdict in our ebook price-fixing case yeah which to be honest I have no idea what a again you know Apple likes to fight out its lawsuits which right they obviously won the lawsuit against Samsung in a major way yeah well not really the price-fixing I actually feel that in some ways one malossi they won the lawsuit whatever they lost a very some weird part of the mind share that I think has led to Samsung's like right dominance current dominance whatever they wanted a lawsuit I'm not there of course not their revenue dominance but anyhow they all the publishers have settled this lawsuit so United States Department of Justice says this is antitrust you all colluded to to bring down Amazon and to raise the overall prices and there is their settlement is that like used in the in the case I mean I you can't you can't allow that right yeah did the admit guilt when they did settle or no I think part of the settlement was that they're like we're not guilty right like seems it and what so apple doesn't settle they fight it out they put their executives on the stand their executives get beaten up by the Department of Justice to turn on literally yeah intellectually the judge in her opinion says you know itq is on the stand he was saying these things I did not find him credible like wow it's at that level of like they didn't they didn't do so well trial right and the the enormous body of evidence is that the publishers were so scared of Amazon and Amazon some power over the market that when Apple showed up they saw the opportunity to make them all collude to enter the market with iBooks but the correct so apples gold they explicitly said we don't want the iBook store to compete with Amazon on price we don't want to be in that game we want to compete with Amazon iPad to Kindle so the books are the same and the price of the same and then we think people will pick the iPad they don't want to get in that price right what's that the collusion was just changing a model it wasn't saying really it was it wasn't the most like things that people focused on in this case or like kind of like the red herrings like it's not the agency model right it's not the final prices it's literally that Apple saw the opportunity to not compete on price they saw the publishers wanted higher prices and they organized a conspiracy to block Amazon from competing against them on price and to raise the overall price of e-books from $9.99 to 12 and forts the business to be honest a like we're all gonna do this together don't worry yes and they were instrumental and they kept on sending emails to publishers saying things like this is your only shot to do this we're the only people with the power to do this against great and the judge is like this is overwhelming that they had they had the knowledge they were gonna do something illegal and they did it and she that she there's a big section in painting about Steve Jobs where she's like here are some emails from Steve Jobs like other executives or he lays it out and he's like we're gonna push the prices higher or you can go in with Amazon and see how that goes and then there's a video of Steve Jobs talking to Walt Mossberg at the iPad launch where he's like the prices are gonna go up trust me right and like she thought she's like pointing this videos on yeah which is like I don't know like people have been asking John Gruber at WWE has me like straight up he's like what's going on at the ebooks case it seems like you know Amazon was the the big power and Apple just enter the market and it's like yeah but they did it it's literally they were so scared the publishers are so scared they were convinced to do illegal things to compete with Amazon right there was but that doesn't that doesn't change it doesn't excuse you I mean but but at the end of the day somebody tweeted something where it was I saw somebody retweet something where it was like it was like the worst conspiracy ever because they didn't they they about it yeah but they didn't but there's their success has been extremely limited yes Apple success has been limited but the table sure has got exactly what they wanted right they got the agency model in price of books well that is that all blown apart now or what we'll see yeah I I got a lot of appealing left to do now I actually on interesting sidenote not sort of related not not totally related but I was surprised to learn that my cousin has two sons and one of them had a birthday I'm telling you starting his story one of them I think just turned seven it's two boys like it's like eleven and seven or something I found another ages exactly okay anyhow he bought them both whose one's birthday and he bought them both Kindle Fires and I was actually really surprised that I mean I guess it's just weird to think about he's just like you know he's a lawyer he lives in Pittsburgh I'm using it later like a very you know normal fan lovely family but uh I guess it's just weird to think about like what a kid would do with the Kindle Fire I mean I just I don't know it just seems strange to me meet books watch TV yeah use apps I suppose horn I just think it's interesting little kids like I said this is 7 and 11 maybe or 8 and 11 or something Paul they're just little compute they bought their kids a computer yeah just interesting to me I guess that's what people are doing and a really cheap computer yeah I know I get that it just struck me as very interesting what should they both ruin said I don't know I just I guess they expect if you're gonna buy somebody a tablet you get it you get an iPad yeah but they're very expensive if I was thinking like yeah they're really the minions of AI presuming to buy for two kids yeah 350 eighty thousand for Apple eighty thousand fifty thousand two hundred fifty thousand yeah okay he doesn't worldwide wait thousand in the US okay so that's like actually grown a lot last and that's grown a lot since the last time I looked at their Wikipedia entry which was not that long ago five thousand created since 2012 twenty-one thousand US jobs added since 2008 okay so they're they've been growing that's pretty crazy like a really rapid yeah yeah Wow okay that's I'd stand totally corrected i hi for some reason i thought the number was 30 I don't know where that number came from just like you don't know where your Apple the deal was about 2002 but 11 years ago that's by Microsoft or Apple Apple alright anything else we have on the on the list else it's bad for the big story here are questions any questions from the room at long time any questions from doing that again well let's take some phone calls remember we used to take phone calls I would love to let steam together let's do follow Jordan we set up for a phone call I don't think we are right now but uh it was good let's see here no wait a couple of big reports this week you want to talk about that I'm hurting people really me more really mad about the Apple getting the Apple job numbers wrong sorry sorry I apologize guys look 18,000 to you from Steve Ballmer's now although we will deliver on multiple devices and services to execute monetize the strategy the single core strategy will drive us to set shared goals for everything we do reads to read some angry tweets what is this that's showing me here it's someone being slapped with the penis all parts of the company will contribute to activating high-value experiences for customers no idea what's going on all right I should never ever look at Twitter well you should I think I took your laptop away from my dad yeah well I've been avoiding the avoiding this they just can't stop I can't stop pick up the beautiful no no no no these back are less slimy they're considerably feel just feel like it's considerably less limey this okay it's still binary though it's slimy it's not slimy it's a little flame I mean you're being harsh for no reason this is not slimy okay it's beautiful this feels exactly that feels exact like a MacBook Air exactly it's actually the exact color I mean turns over I mean he's like the same metal it's actually kind of sunny be cool if it just like sank in there no just like all right well that's the verge guys for this week we'll be back next week obviously and if you want if you want to get in touch with us you can email us at Virg cast at the verge calm you can leave a comment on the post when it goes up we love that you could post something in our forums about the verge cast criticism only criticism super angry you can write a neela email at nila at the verge calm yep anyhow I know you obviously find us on Twitter verges at Virg I'm Joshua Topolsky Neela is reckless Ross Miller is oh no Roscoe no II on the end so I just a Danny know let me know I've been saying no we only had four years and that's it we'll be back next weekend and as always no matter what happens to your family I'm sure you'll be alright