Gadgetory

Hey going on hey and welcome to the verge cast for the week oh it's the second week of December 2013 I'm Josh Topolsky I'm Paul Miller I'm Nilay Patel and we have go ahead popper been the Ben popper drone editor Ben Pappas row editor drone expert drone aficionado yes Ben Benjamin J popper there's a drone over middle and I'm a quarter drone my initial m mi was closed yeah yeah this is the verge Casper where we discussed things that are at the verge anything you want to self it's a self-fulfilling verge cast verge cast it's right there no we don't have a lot of time because we got to catch a train we do catch a train cuz it's the future because it's the time time to get on the steam engine yeah in the future all right I'm super I'm just talking about the laser engine laser engine there's exactly one thing that happened oh why tell us what happened in the news 60 minutes aired a 14-minute amazon commercial the only thing and yeah I mean I I have many many thoughts but the the main piece of it was at the end Jeff Bezos opened a door and Charlie Rose walked in the room and went oh my god oh my gosh and they were drones right Amazon Prime that was the first time Charlie Rose has felt sober and lived outside of the group just watch - curtain Z - another black room with a baddie I mean every single piece of what we're seeing right now is a lie Bezos Jeff Bezos announced on 60 minutes you can't put a lot in there like you know box get back okay hold on Jeff Bezos announced on 60 minutes that he would in 2015 they were going to begin a drone and air delivery system using unmanned aerial vehicles otherwise known as drones they'll be dropping products within within 30 minutes yeah - to certain people in certain times or less five pounds or less skateboarding this announcement I noted journalist Charlie Rose asked no follower right this is like a brilliant Black Friday promotion for Amazon because everybody could talk about Monday was Amazon yep I would say it's not vaporware and that drones could do this it's great for and that this is totally illegal I can't do it safely right if you like if you dropped a pin on your Apple thing you know in your phone being like I'm here there's my GPS coordinate it could fly into the air fly to your house and fly it out it could do that right now it could do it but it couldn't get out of the way if the pigeon was there or no if you had a kid in the driveway or you know like deuced liked it there as far as or even necessarily make it there from fellowes I love the kid a driveway scenario you're saying the drone would drop the thing on to the child and kill it or right it would okay I'm at point a and I need to go to point B I know Jeff Bezos says that by 2015 he'll have cleared all the all values just this video is right to me it feels totally right to another guy comes out he's like yes my drone is here I just want to say something I know it can be tough with this crew but you know look we have cars driving down the road right now kids playing ball there's all sorts of obstacles there's things danger they have to watch for you know we have let's just add another danger to the well I'm just saying that you know at some point in time people were like cars or you're gonna just kill people immediately as soon as you get behind the wheel think you're gonna blow up and you're gonna run people over that'll be the end of it and you know what like people are like humans couldn't go faster than 25 miles per hour they learn go flying in a plane they said it couldn't be done it's dangerous you'll never make it I mean they're we'd all the time we do things that seem impossible and weird and like will never happen but no one's questioning whether or not drones are existing or whether they will happen didn't even necessarily be used in this way we're not questioning I'm not question is it that 60 minutes completely uncritically right went to Amazon's like facilities our job in in particular is like it's so far away from reality it's apparently the only two years away from yeah I don't think it's so far away I mean I think it's interesting that there's like kind of this arms race now where it's like we're gonna do driverless cars in 10 years ok ok we'll do drones in one year and it's like you announce things and tell people right off the bat like we can't make this happen yet but get excited now you know it's it you want people to think about your company in innovation and like you may not be able to actually do what you say but it gets people thinking about Amazon and different way right is it vaporware no is it wait why isn't it been well it's not vaporware and that I think a drone like I said could do this it just couldn't do it safely and the thing they're not the drug they're not selling he's not selling drone technology he's selling Brett the specific thing that will allow Amazon to send a drone to your house with a package drop it off and then return to the warehouse so it is vaporware at this moment in that sense and that that he can't do that even if he had all of the technology in place and it worked flawlessly the way Amazon is Bill Raina I couldn't do right the warehouses are far away I mean there's no actual way to execute on that today not just because of the laws and the safety no that does likely they could do it because like we played I play with drones at South by Southwest that can fly well he said ten miles okay let's say you you could send a drone several miles from one site to another given to GPS coordinates it could take off land drop something and come back right but it obviously right there are lots of things that couldn't do like sense and avoid is the big one I can't get out of the way of a power line or another airplane the same technology that the driverless cars are using to avoid obstacles right this stuff will definitely be coming online soon I think the question is was it a publicity stunt this is the only question we actually have to answer was it a publicity stunt I knows this very injury or unrelated to this iswhat a publicity stunt wasn't a publicity stunt or is Jeff Bezos serious about this and will he do everything he can to make it a reality in 2015 or beyond so I guess I've got when I was calling around different people in the drone world to ask about get what's your thoughts on Amazon then somebody else said Ola you know actually UPS has been testing this and like the president of FedEx has made clear multiple times he said you know we want to do this as soon as it's legal so like right I think that everybody thinks this will happen I think if you were to set depending on your definition of vaporware it can't happen now so it's vapor but right it's coming it's realistic it's plausible it's illegal right now all right but that video have been made I don't think is realistic or plausible like it will never be that the drone like we've written wrote one and when we bring the story over who said the iPhones go fail that's right you're Steve Ballmer you are no I just I don't think drones and flying away again is realistic for any number of reasons not least of which is that they will just be leaving packages in your driveway and flying away well they'll be now you'll get a notification should be at home because this thing's coming mm-hmm yeah that's people who aren't home I need it in half an hour you're probably not getting New York like you're not gonna get a drone delivered in New York you're gonna have some sort of pride cheery suburb of infrastructure about how this but not in New York because people live in this 13th floor of an apartment building like how are they getting a drone delivery come come down onto the crowded street with every apartment we have like a rooftop delivery where that drone yeah what I'm saying is the video I don't think is realistic because I think but it's a reality video well it's a it's a concept of a drone delivering packages I to me I'm pissed about this because I didn't I didn't read about the Australian textbooks company I think this is awesome because a lot of how we tried to visualize the future for a long time was these flying cars and flying cars just don't seem to work there is you know something that we we do a lot of things to reduce congestion and cities and now you've had these delivery companies like or you know eBay is doing it Amazon is doing it where they are having random people drive packages from Walmart to your house yes it's very upsetting and so like there's just more and more and we're kind of overloading this infrastructure that is the road and if you have this new I think unmanned drones are perfect for using a fairly unused portion right of our sky which is below helicopters and airplanes yeah and higher than I think we just up all the ground everything between the height of how high you can jump on the same wavelength this guy from Facebook posted about this yesterday the sharing economy this is like the ultimate you know utopian Silicon Valley he was like once Joan do this we'll have the sharing economy you will own nothing you'd be like oh I need this pot tonight and this knife and a drone will bring it to you and you'll use it this is like okay here's what you're not gonna take away from the American people owning things right now you're not going to take that away are our whole existing is built on the consumption and ownership of fish actually people I just brought us only thing I have a very small apartment and there is I really don't want to have more things I think as we've learned time and time again Paul Muller is no team for the for the Humana for you man I'm sorry make you uncomfortable with my my embrace of the future and my willingness to explore alright and my total I'm just so happy were pissed know he's pissed that he did learn it's a different way to look at a city and think about how the things get from point A to point B and there's something that seems kind of fundamentally untenable people if we all rode bikes we wouldn't have to worry about Jays trucks ingesting our bring an HDMI cable from Amazon oh my god and like I live down the street from Best Buy and and there's Game Stop and there's Kmart and all of those would charge me five million dollars for a six foot HDMI cable why don't you just go to this store well I guess order one from Amazon like let's just get one ship like a rational I don't know if a rational economy but it would be cool if I could walk down the street I mean reasonable price you know you're talking about your problem is not that you can't go get the HDMI cable for a reasonable price your problem is you have you're like ridiculously impatient like human beings are horrible now and we think we should get a dropship to us by a drone in 30 minutes because we need a cheaper HDMI cable right the second instead of having to spend money on the more expensive one that is nearby like but we're not your request is irrational it's very rough yes it is okay you're asking for it's like you're saying like I would not only do I want to buy the cheapest HDMI cable available but I want it either within walking distance or delivered to me by a drone you're loving a drone but what ultimately happened what ultimately happened is that HDMI cable on Amazon yeah and that had to take a bandwidth on the streets and I'd probably almost got here almost not it no but this is this is your hdmi cable wasn't the only thing they were shipping that's why they might have so they made big trucks to hold lots of things so they could ship multiple items they don't have to every time they're like hey wheat Paul Miller wanted a drive cable and a guy gets in a car in the back of the truck there's an HDMI really driving George New York and you really want a robot job what is so far been proposed for how to make this quicker is a dude in a car or a lady no it's it's a it's a it's a person in a car full of other things they have to deliver it makes a lot of sense it's like the it's like you know you've got a bunch of things they're all being delivered to us the same area you could put a lot of them in a van and then you can just go door to door handing everybody their work right now I know and it's it actually is a pretty good system the problem is people like you want their cheap HDMI cable to be delivered within 30 minutes or less that's the problem we're like really I won't spend the money on this Best Buy HDMI cable like but I want the cable right now I didn't grow up buying things online I still don't like buying things online and it makes sense if you have that's your becomes close to people get those things that are already close to people and as an Amazon open store they should open retail stores maybe they should with big warehouse open eight why don't they just open that would be their warehouses as retail stores and major medicine areas like put a retail level on top you can take an escalator up so to get the stuff out is where you really want to Amazon to do is build urban IKEA everywhere yes that's what I want I want the Amazon where no I'm sorry called Amazon live you guys know about this now I was on store anyway Amazon is very near and dear to my heart and if you let anything about IKEA and my experience of Ikea in fact I hear easily in purity of the Amazon experience isn't incredible Nike is the worst business that has yeah hopper animal Scandinavian design 2 million horsemeat IKEA do they really do horse meat yeah in America problems in Europe Europe don't even have laws there look mad cow where'd that come from Europe I mean you can't trust the European when it comes to miniature you cannot want it I love Europeans but the meat stuff got to be careful ok so careful if they're meat here's here's not a conversation you want if you're in a relationship and you want to know whether or not it's gonna last huh go to Ikea with that person obviously we know IKEA say he'll world deathtrap ok what I'm saying is if you'll let me finish me live what I'm just saying is then what Paul wants what Paul was is instant gratification I wants what he wants when he wants it you know what I want I want a local economy well then you do not want a cheap HDMI cable you want the most expensive HDMI cable you've ever purchased because in a local economy that could only make a few HDMI cables they have to make them very slowly how much would it cost to make an HDMI cable in like is there a single HDMI cable manufacturer in America does one exist wait first of all yes for some reason you can buy is overrun with from this big impersonal amazon.com for them to like tell some other thing that they send this thing in the mail and it comes to me and there's so much so many steps and then I like get it like a few days later yes when there are at a nightmare thousands of to my cables within like a two-block razor go by though that are just completely unaffordable this is so you know what you're paying for convenience that's why they're twice as much money or three times as much money because you can get it at that moment do many times I bought a blu-ray player at a local electronics store because I wanted to watch a blu-ray and did not have the player do you know how expensive it was compared to the ones I get so why are you so down on the shares anywhere the drone brings you the blu-ray play all the time I know I love you get Seltzer delivered to your every tune every two weeks what's your on I and I pay for it it dispensed a fresh track is a ripoff of my Seltzer guy is killing me first rate is cheaper than going away fresh trick keeps yes is cheaper than a whole food and they cover a warehouse in New York exactly so so Amazon need to build a warehouse because then I don't want to have why can't a guy just bring it over on a bike great jobs like sweet cream you good jobs usually run an American flag right now put them on a city bike send them over with your HDMI cable hey Roger so yeah I mean like the thing you're talk about the sharing you got this conversation you're worried about human jobs we're talking about Amazon and drones we talked about Google and driverless cars and then the news today right was that Andy Rubin has left Android to build real and robots right like the big thing right is like all these big companies that started software companies they're web companies Amazon you're getting into robotics like this stuff is becoming all this is your dream becoming cheap enough to prototype and deal with and maybe accessible to consumers in a way that like Google is like let's throw some money listen let's build a sexbot already I mean this drone delivery and that guy you know whatever else they're doing a guy cleans your floor or something just build the sex box whatever when you have a huge use in the market for robots and drones would be one huge use it promotes the advance industry or it makes people hate robots and start some kind of weird called against robots and then it leads us into some sort of civil war I hope you're happy that's always what happens if you see an iRobot it would be thrilling banana I've seen iRobot terrible because that is full of fun philosophical climb well that's every great great that's great that's great blow anything up from a great brain no literally if you took the thesis over all of the movie with Will Smith and the thesis over all of the book I Robot they would they would battle each other robot scary scary robots do bad things yeah but people are ultimately what's broken sexbot on the oh my god this is this is an oculus sex pop it I'm sorry what no one wants this happen no one wants to put their hand job no I gathered what it was doing jobs you don't have to show me that there and explain that it's a hand job Jon Jon wanna share I like Paul scandalize like all the people to be scandalized Paul I don't I don't want the robots involved in that but if you want to preserve your Hornaday always a good thing to have all these sex robot I think it's a really the chemical quandary I don't think it really is I think anything at the end today if you're banging almost like having sex with an animal animals have souls and going to the animal because when the robots are really sexy yeah you're not gonna feel that as degraded so it's just it was just a thing pumping like a machine oh my god especially degrading I think if it's like a you know beautiful man or woman then suddenly it seems less to great it right I mean man oh woman Roe both good enough virtual reality it's like paying more for sex can I actually say something a sexbot and what we just saw are two very different things that was like a simulator a handjob simulator with a virtual reality component draw the pram when I say sex box it was more of a virtual HJ situation humanoid I mean a humanoid robot that does sex to you or that you do sex to depending on the situation that might arise manufacturing he's not waiting tells me any rumors building no sex box they actually kind of weird the story and because it just came out in the New York Times he granted some access the times he said this is not part of Google X this is his own thing he'd be spun out his own company yeah but it is focused on moon shots moon shots hashtag moon shots yeah they've bought seven companies to staff this thing up and the it's weird because they talk to Ruben and then according to several people with specific knowledge of the project it could be used for electronics assembly manufacturing and aid and sort of making things the United States nothing well you know if you can't have sex with any of them that sounds good and also bad it's like hey we're bringing jobs back to America for robots robots the universe wake up with the robots together right you know right right no there's a lot of the the co-working robots like that's you have a person who is working alongside a robot and you combine human intelligence and adaptability and flexibility for situations with robots really good at doing repetitive things that could eventually stray any humans wrist so but here's you know the bigger No big checks right I mean like this is they bought seven companies this is not even in there like crazy projects lab this is another thing right and the same with calico that life extension company like they're giving them all this money but it's not in like they're they're allowing people within the company to just go off on some really crazy crazy Google Island is gonna be really messed up it is going to be a manufacturing themselves well it's weird it's funny we've had in this conversation effort over a day this is just of a piece of like random rich people saying they're gonna do things that are years and years away and you have a problem with that no I don't have problem with it it's just it's which we matically at hey dream its Elon Musk in a Hyperloop it's in and she's like people this is how people were murdered in now it's just it's just a weird moment where I think we don't like real change only comes from like corporate entities right now and so well we've regulated the government into just like a rich dude doing stuff maybe like Google idea though cuz they were the first ones to be like it's beta it's bright it's bus it doesn't really exist driverless cars or glass but it's come it's the space program if you look at the moonshot is like like literally all this draw this drone stuff is very much from like university research hackers do-it-yourself stuff a lot of the robotic stuff has survived as university research and hobbyists because it hasn't been a legitimate right when i started in school right there's and and now and then that's in this baxter co-working robots like now some of this stuff has mature far enough in these hobbyists and university settings that now these businesses are able to possibly actually make products out here's what I think driverless cars a lot of that technology came from University Research and DARPA so I think if we fast forward 25 years this conversation will seem so quaint and ridiculous like I think we're gonna have drone delivery systems I think we're going to have sex BOTS I think we're going to have co-working or just working robots I mean I think in the span of like the next 25 years this pod this podcast will be you know three or four robots sitting in to be replacements me who are having the same conversation already that's well god I wish we could do it an effect where we all ripped our faces off we were shocking to the viewer or thrilling yeah I mean wouldn't it be shocking if if somehow during this broadcast I were to start to reach under my you know you were like what is they are you have an itch there or something and I just and I just ripped off my skin and you're like oh my god he's ripping his skin off this is he's killing him somebody call an ambulance and then there was no blood and there was just a horrendous horrific Terminator face right and then I removed the Terminator face and there was a regular Josh base under there did that freak you out yeah and give us a couple just try real quick yeah we should move on by the way I would like to point out that van was supposed to stealthily leave and he did that great job Ben great job no penny why you whispering we can hear every word you're saying just kidding we can voice there's one that I think is really weird please share with us a little xbox rant so go ahead I brought a prop you brought a prop this is gonna be like this is my connect the office Kinect oh hey wait wait we need that why do you have it and this right here I'd like non-standard USB three plug this is whoa what's underneath it the plug it's a you know what it's called it's called screw you hackers we win just make it just hack together and adapt I'm sure it's a USB three years did you do you get your soldering I didn't figure that your soldering right now you get a breadboard out like a little like history reminder people specially I think these are called history lessons well I don't want to teach I want to remind our history reminder refresher a refresher people started hacking the Kinect right when it came out Microsoft sent like cease and desist no I did Microsoft yeah they were horrible and hateful and mean and scary to these people but they're gonna keep on hacking it so they kept on hogging it and then Microsoft like does this about-face let go like look at all this cool research and they're like pretending like they're they're into these people and like helping them out and like making these incentives for them to do stuff none of that really cool stuff really ever ended up on the Xbox there's still a lot of these open-source libraries and frameworks and an hack together things and people just pack and mess around I mean amazing stuff has been done with really cool stuff then Microsoft came out with Kinect for Windows and some of their own software for Windows but you you if you're a hacker none of that hacker stuff and really none of that connect stuff for Windows can be used with connects that people buy for their Xbox they're not for commercial use so if you there's no actual use case on the Xbox because the Xbox is very closed platform and there's no actually use case on Windows because unless someone actually buy - Kinect for Windows they can't really use this as like a commercial thing like Microsoft it is because I was really stoked about the Kinect I was like looking into like well how do you learn how to program for the Kinect and maybe I can make a tech demo and that'd be fun and then I like buy an Xbox one on impulse and sadness and and like and I pull it out why don't you just sign up for the Xbox for Kinect for Windows SDK and like just buy it it's form because nobody has Kinect for Windows if you develop something with Kinect for Windows it is you're only allowed to actually officially commercially but what are you asking for I'm confused I'm saying that Microsoft you want to be able to hack on the one still hates these hackers and is still so pissed at them and now they've created this bogus plug and like there's it just really bugs me the way that they act like a little confused are you mad that they made the Kinect difficult to hook up to like a standard like PC or whatever or are you mad that they're not providing tools like that interface with the Xbox one to allow you to like do some hacky stuff with I think I guess probably the former the thing is that Microsoft's hugely benefited from and science and interesting cool things hugely benefited from what are sometimes benefits like a lot of machine vision and a lot of machine learning a lot of robotics was really advanced by the Kinect sensor it became this like almost like the de-facto robotics sensor was huge for robotics and and also this may be the Microsoft always a bet so when they open it up you mean no no the Microsoft never helped really very much but it was always a benefit that they gain people are buying them Microsoft fell into a cool moment and tried to capitalize in like kind of rebrand it as their cool moment and try to be a part of it and then they come up with this bogus adapter to just stop that ever happening don't you think what they're gonna sell it they're gonna sell one for Windows so don't you think they'll sell is a standard USB 3 windows nobody by using Benes was also like for Microsoft is a bit of a conflict because it's like I spent money I mean well they don't own the company that made the connect the first technology is the new one is anyone enjoy yourself loves to tell me you out there so here's the thing so okay but don't you think that that they want that kind of revolutionary experimentation to basically just come from my because I mean we went we went to their R&D labs and they're doing all kinds of crazy experiments with the Kinect isn't the whole point like they'd rather not have some other company capitalize on all their patented cool technology and make something with it it's not it's a closed system it's not meant to be they clearly never meant it to be something that's like a pro that I would like the thing with Kinect well but they're selling one for Windows they're selling it you can buy it connects the windows it's ruining this for developers it was a new one for the new one Kinect for Windows and extradition wait connect to for Windows why not let's connect to you but it's all that tonight for windows they're not signed that he's aimed are they some of the new generation of yeah it's gonna cost for it all that's the connect to is that what it's called and I'm sure this one is not for commercial purposes so if you develop it's for fun purposes right if you you can't develop like because there's there's things like if I were to make you make the full argument here I would tell you that the only people who need to buy Kinect for Windows or developers because the only people in the world of connect are the ones with Xbox ones yeah and now you when you develop the thing on Windows at some point you're gonna be able to port those apps to the Xbox he's saying he wants them to not be ported to the AI he's saying they should be like open and usable thank you you're gonna slip your robot with a generic do that you can't do that you can't port stuff to the Xbox yet well I still have a nothing mic right listen I think we I just think they're a sinister hateful company and also understand that people have coffee tables and and I have Kinect on my xbox it did descent very frustrating I'm really I will say this to connect it doesn't work very well I don't need have you to work yes yes onesearch why you do twice at least okay Hornet the Kinect like the biggest problem for me number one the Xbox one is huge it does not fit into the cabinet where I put all of my other components it's so big that it's too deep to fit in it's just deep and yes it's huge and the Kinect is also huge and the way they the cable on it is situated you can't even like move the cable to a position you need to get to it has this really heavy yeah like angled plastic piece coming off the back so I had to put the Kinect and the Xbox down in a corner of my living room and so now like the Kinect basically is in functional unless I want the Kinect to be front and center in my living room yeah which I don't right because it's huge enough even like I rearranged my living room around the Connect yeah and got it all set up and left like that and basically the setup dialog the way it does like it's like okay where's the floor or where are you it's the like that and like okay now tilt it like this all right now you're good to go and then you go into the app and says your room seems to be cluttered we can't see you so I go back to this setup as you're right I actually had to like I had to like enjoy had to tilt it where they told me not to tilt it like I had to be smarter than Kinect that should be really easy I mean Kinect can't do a lot yeah so I just love motion gaming I love these there's so much possibility and opportunity here and I think and and and I think Sony gave up and I'm a little mad at them for that I really three you know and Microsoft was my last hope and I think I would mean apple just bought primeSense oh well that's exciting to me I think you don't work and I think Microsoft is sinister in the way that it is treated developers and sinister I hate that plug wait what that's just a plug though I mean like wow you can box a different but you can buy it with the regular plug right listen can we you're old kid is gonna get their parents to pay $400 this is like a problem this is such a mic on here at project beyond 1% problem like I don't know if you buy an iphone you can get Xcode for free and you can make iphone apps if you bought an Xbox Kinect you could plug that a computer and you can make for free all the libraries are open source because cool people made them you could have a twelve-year-old making a connection so what you're saying is you're mad because Microsoft isn't more like Apple I mean that's the argument not because Microsoft is is is squelching innovation I really think well they're I think they're interested in their own innovation I think they have never delivered their innovation there's one connect and I I don't disagree that well it's impulsive I'll say this the I think the Xbox I want in exports yeah I think the Xbox one has some pretty much malicious yeah some pretty ambitious goals it just hasn't realized them at its launch no you just say that and you know if you look at the numbers right the ps4 is like every couple days sometimes like we sold a million we sold two million yeah I did Mike responses like over 1 billion zombies in that note I will say that in Dead Rising 3 where the zombies are being killed you know I am actually I do actually use a function of the Kinect which I never thought which is like trying to attract zombies by screaming over here but like weird interact with it in that way it's actually pretty fascinating and and despite it being really buggy the SmartGlass app component does some really interesting stuff and I have to say I mean it's very buggy and they need to work it out because it doesn't connect properly connect properly but but they're very ambitious I feel like the ps4 is far less ambitious it's like and it kind of bugs me I think it's very capable and very important so they played it super safe but it's just so I mean I think Microsoft pride bit off more than they could chew but it's like Sony didn't bite off and Microsoft Microsoft is just diluted in thinking that innovation comes from inside of Microsoft because I think we have to we again we have to catch a train what's the next topic all right Topsy because we love that I unbox my x 20 degree and I was pissed to a degree well no it's oh my god no absolute bottom Bob so HAP so Apple bought Topsy well done I mean I just you were into it I just think I don't that into my only my only comment on this is uh is I you know nobody really knows why Apple does acquire companies all the time Topsy was a Twitter search and analytics firm people are like this could is the TV they're gonna integrate Twitter stuff with TV and it's like yeah I don't really know you know that's the every time something outta like improve series I actually feel like I honestly feel like this is maybe part of Apple's play too at some point launch a search engine of its own because at the end of the day when you look at their biggest competitors you know Google has a search engine which people use a ton Bing it may not be the most popular search engine but it has given Google some competition and it is now the thing that you get on a Windows Phone and on a Windows laptop and on a Microsoft is responsible for a lot of searches if you think about how many searches happen through the iOS browser through Safari and through Siri like they're making a lot of searches and they should probably own a little more of that process well I think that Apple as evidenced by as evidenced by the maps thing and clearly like their desire to control and and the experience for users I mean to me it could be the first step or part not the first step but part of that process of creating some kind of search engine and maybe like in our new world you start to prioritize things like Twitter search much higher than you would have a few years ago why well because Twitter is increasingly an important part of how people get information now I agree with that but what minor point you're like well that is true the Twitter is a vector it's not it's never that it's like ninety nine percent of time I search for something I land in Wikipedia yeah Google it but it happens we'll be better off like buying Wikipedia oh but if you could Twitter's well yeah like but if you could really make that information useful somehow potentially a lot of information you are looking for like when you're talking to Syria on your phone is not like big facts like Howard giraffe's made its larger rafts made how are giraffes made Howard giraffes made now Howard rafts mate is what I got it made right here boom well I have by the way I got what must be the weirdest itaú article make a balloon giraffe ooh what's this guys can you get it Howard giraffes made can you over that up oh it's Wikipedia well you've done a lot do you know how to draft Paul I'm curious because I I'm worried that if you don't know how they're made we have real women daddy giraffe loves a mommy that's correct yeah they adopt really a dumb wow this is really graphic this really but but a lot of what you're really there's a guy see a bro I mean alone I say the following which is scientific yeah when the female releases urine the male tastier and to see if she's ready to mate Wow gotta say giraffes and I have a lot in common this is like the kind of level of learning that's happening on this verge cast is encyclopedic and look at your apps the same yeah they're all in dead girls cold showers alter a story to pee stuff there any urine play there's a lot of information on Twitter on Twitter that is more relevant to me in the moment that I'm talking the Syria but that's exactly of course that's what Apple knows too and that's why they bought it Topsy that is I'm just trying to find the family I wonder what family giraffes are and anybody now I should know the mammal traffic is there there's got to be some kind of Jessica yeah there's got to be something like the kingdom but we're so we're all just doing giraffe stuff on the internet right now it's a well the phylum is more data this is the worst or Dada or Dada okay be Chordata it's a corner well yeah I don't know you don't have that CH is pronounced do you the family is the use is there are I play one occasionally even toad ungulate 50 shades of Dragon a was the joke that I wanted to bake it and it rhymes with gray so that's perfect moving on giraffe a death there's one more story gray which we should talk about it almost sounds like an expanded gray when you think about it yes which is how which is that which is the website health care the health which is there well the website the website is going healthcare.gov health care not a story on which is why which talking healthcare.gov is back let me ask them back it's like it's sort of back 80% let me ask you a question does anybody think that there is a global conspiracy to destroy the website of healthcare.gov or did the global conspiracy come completely from within our US government yeah and the conspiracy wasn't really matter making things yeah it's a global conspiracy even common I mean it is it is kind of insane like when you look at the data if you by the way if you haven't read this Adrian Jeffries Rhodes is incredible we have a video to this incredible report about the failings of healthcare.gov and sort of what it we learned from it it's incredible how exactly like the US government the process of building healthcare.gov seems like yeah it's like it's like 32 contractors whatever 55 contractors each working on some little part and some sort of insane Kafka like Nona you're a bureaucratic hell world where nobody can talk to anybody and like nobody knows what the other person is doing and it's like yeah yeah this is how you make something really horrible that breaks like have 55 different people from different 55 different companies yeah everybody knew it was gonna break and watch it anyway I mean you know so the piece is great and what's interesting about it is the argument is really the argument is insane if you just look at how people are arguing about it and it's it highlights fact that we have to repeal Obamacare because the website broke ya know that's an insane argument of course oh boy we're going down but that argument is they're using the the the the dysfunction of our government as a whole to make an argument that has nothing to do with it right but they're but they're or ways or does it but the argument is very that makes sense what's weird maybe we should repeal Obamacare probably the more I think about it if this is what they do with a website what are they gonna do with my healthcare that's straight know it's but it's if you like Obamacare and healthcare.gov are very interesting because it's like this huge massive government policy and for the first time ever the only way that it exists for people is the Internet it's the it is my you are lousy I think and like the government doesn't know what to do about that it doesn't know how to build that sort of thing right you know it knows how to ask to build ships and missiles and but not only that but there's no it doesn't know how to build them and that's evidenced by like you wouldn't have launched that like you what you would have done if you not have built them as you would have first off you would never never started the project the way they started it but then you would have tested test a test and it made sure like anybody does when they make something that it's going to be the product you think it's gonna be so clearly they didn't do that but uh what's also interesting is that we don't know how to as a people and as a government process the failure of a part of like the government like this right you know I mean the reaction is like oh my god like everything is messed up why would we want these people to be responsible for health care but it's like I don't know we've had it I want to get I give it the benefit of the doubt I would at least like to see if this if the website were functioning 100% correctly what would it be like I'd just like to know but then it's not even that like um I think it's organ contracted with Oracle to build their state exchange and that like just didn't work like there's there's elements of this where you're saying that it's a failed policy no maybe not the policy I'm saying that we the government is good at being like you contractor make a thing you know in a contractor maybe can make it or not it's usually a rocket though but seriously like right how many times you like how many military projects like way over budget like we canceled at the end after spending all this money and you can't probably most if the government wants to be more responsive or effective it can't treat this that same way we need to be in some weird way I almost feel like what we needed to do was contract this out to a private nothing but not done in the way that the government did it but like find like the ideal person to build it right the single company that could make something of that size and have them go build it right it's not what they should have done just had people bid bid on the one on the project of you're going to make the website that does all this stuff I mean that's kind of sort of what they did right but yeah yeah 55 different contractor and they did it that you should watch a drink video because it's amazing but they did it five years before the ACA was like passed right so they have these and indefinite I they're called IDIQ yeah yeah the idea is to write I know the second was a definite quantity I know the distance we ran out but I think it's indefinite delivery delivery for an indefinite quantity yeah it's something insane it's like we don't know we're making it we don't know how long it's gonna take but you got the contraband you guys have it you know data are not incentive like everything you could complain about the government doing this they did there are soccer Birkett fix like structurally the things people complain about big government making mistakes we're all here in play oh you know it's like move slow and break things it's it's crazy it's only gonna get worse like Adrienne's point is like there the government has to build more websites yeah well have you ever tried to use their their websites even like you know it looking like the DMV the New York New York City DMV site I mean it's a classic this is a classic joke right that all of the you know the government or pseudo city federal whatever state and federal they're like at least the healthcare site has a great great web design no but this way you can find stuff on here but it's crazy to do it if you look at the New York DMV site can you just get it up on there because I visited one of the better ones there no but like it scroll down a little bit just get into the mix here it's like there's just so much going on in here I know there has to be a lot but we have better ways of making websites for a lots of stuff now yeah and so and so but the point is that it's always been this running joke but now it's like it's not just about I need to renew my license which is kind of you can go and do it if you have to and you're gonna do it anyhow and you sort of expect the DMV to be a horrible experience because it's government-run and but you know you you owe Illinois Illinois has branded their DMV cyber Drive Illinois if you want to click log on log on but uh but now the problem is that that it's not the problem is that we now actually need these things to work like increasingly like with health care I mean there could be other programs where there are of course now but in the future where we need the government to be ready for technology it's the essential joke of all of this is that the the government legally required people to purchase something and then made it impossible for the yeah I heard about the a the prison glitch this is my favorite I'm gonna ask you if you've ever how long you've been in prison and then you can't come any further because you're just it just assumes that you've been in prison if you have zero amount of prison which makes you think about those first five people that did get through it all they probably had prison or they live where they live just put me through the system just like all of this went live I was like I quit my job at the verge and so I needed some health care so I looked around like all health care things are all just scary and terrifying and weird yeah did I like accidentally like put my phone number in somewhere and then somebody called me and they turned out to be like a health care broker so I guess they make Commission on sales oh this sounds and she's just talked me through some plans it all sounded pretty sketchy but I just bought a plan than I did you really through healthcare broker so what the lesson here is that you can just call including health insurance which he needs he needs to stay alive probably needs to be replaced now I don't know if it's legal but that doesn't sound right to me I think it's still legal people can keep selling nobody's telling these guys to not sell health insurance yeah it's just that there's no other option nobody I don't like hit a certain minimal I don't know if I have the minimum required coverage but who knows you're pregnant gets that right to a death panel is in this situation yeah III will say this you know it is all I know is we've not tried the socialized health care plan link it hasn't been tried in America and I just feel like let's just roll the dice and see how goes shot let's go why not I don't want to gamble with my whatever and it's like why not there's a bunch of people who don't have insurance and let's see what happens you know it's really fun for me is going home for Thanksgiving yeah your father is a hardcore right-wing and my family for the doctors yeah just talking about how they feel about this they don't like Obamacare you might so my sister is all she's cool with it you know she's like she's got a remain hope yeah cool cool yeah my dad man he's uh not into it not in it it's got to be something like rhymes to escape that conversation like by the end I was like diving off of couches at some point though just means just the way the medical industry is exploited you got you had legal France like the real one no dude you know like a train tracks Lego trains right now our boss wait what are Lego trains so when I was a kid I had the Lego monorail remember this my privilege like we were scrapping scrapping Christmas for a man who was born on December 16th I will tell you that I pulled that scam many many times that's a good if you remember the Lego monorail is like we of course we do it was a hack the engine had like a physical switch on it and it was a drive along the track like you could adjust Legos to hit the switches and that's how it stopped and started sadness I know I know but it sounds great the new ones are straight-up remote-controlled like they're like mice running around no there's like a remote control that's a battle for the rebels I mean I start right up like fought an eight-year-old girl to play doesn't surprise me yeah she was she did win but not also that also doesn't surprise story is that the children are our future are wily those children are gonna be riding a Hyperloop and they're gonna be like this is nothing and why or may not have health care yeah well they may or may not but they probably know you'll be ok I just I'm just saying like let's just see what happens give it a couple of years yeah bit like six months can't get worse you know like yep you know I feel like medical professionals are probably bummed because like all the kinds of weird loopholes that used to exist are getting like weirdly change or closed up but come on there's a bunch of new loopholes and ways to make more money and ways to do less fewer surgeries and fewer people you know whatever I don't do that I don't know what doctors want yet because because wrote the robotic surgeons have been so so good thus far so we're getting close to having to wrap up I know this is a short one unfortunately we do have to catch a train like literally that's not even yeah that's a pun that's not a joke I have Michael Shane staring at me like nodding his head looking very worried you look very easy actually not pointing to his watch now he's making some sort of breast grabbing the breast motion I don't understand that don't do that to me don't do that to anything not in front of the flag yeah America Americas you know you can't see that like no one can see there's a big flag because we just shoot the flag for a second yeah Michael go do the thing you can't really see it because it's in the dark there's Michael good that's a huge flag in there and that's the virtue music are there any other topics we need to cover not really I feel like something else haven't I can't remember you know what I hate about Aaron Sorkin speaking of The West Wing oh this is good this is an quickly walk and talk it's not to walk and talk it's the it's the this happens a lot in the West Wing it's a mr. president we need you to sign this document and then do you know in 1876 what they called screws and it's like you know what dude ya know it's like it's like mr. president here's your new shoes he's like you have you read the Ulysses because let me tell you that it's like you know what people just want you to do you're the president please he spends like four hours a day telling stories about history these are your grandpa you know he needs to sign the papers and put his shoes on get to the meeting like stop answering stop answering questions with questions about history no wonder we're having all these problems people are like Obama what do you think we got to get this health care thing happened he's like have I ever told you about the time I was in Guatemala and it's like no no one wants to hear it we got to do health care here another parables man they're not terrible she's just saying things you know what I'm talking about you've heard all the stories anyhow this guy over here I read that the death-dealer story yes pretty oh yeah epic long-form work by the verge just pretty incredible and I was really sad it's it's very sad so if you well not even if you have a chance read this or I'll be very upset with you Matt Stroud wrote a piece called the death dealer it's a long-form piece we put up today it is about a guy named James Arthur Ray who is I would say very bad person yeah just a very flawed very flawed damaged person who is damaging other people and it's it's a it's a fascinating story it's actually kind of I think is in some way related to our scam world story that we did a couple of years ago in that he's sort of one of these guys who has who has risen to it what he had risen to a place I mean he's like Oprah Oprah's like into this guy I brought the secret you know part of he was a part of the secret cabal but he's not like the CEO but he was on Oprah and talking about you know how to empower yourself and do all the stuff and like you know it's it's snake oil but it's like in this case the snake oil they got people killed and I think it's not sorry this is yeah and I think and I think in our age in our age of information overload and like the kind of your reality whatever the way you want your reality to be you can get it on the internet like I do think these guys are kind of a are like a red flag like you know in the belief in information without getting without really doing your your homework dump so don't believe James Arthur right but do read the story about him that's called the death dealer on the verge calm a website on the Internet to tell me as soon as we work out the buzz there are 55 contractors gov no but actually but you know that's the thing like we're so used to i just think about leftists are really hard to build the verge is hard to build but we have like an incredible we gotta go we have an incredible product team who build it and like did it efficiently went in you know let's cut your own throat then but we're used to in our world people executing on things they say they're gonna and making them and they're like well the thing exists now that's why that's why it's so weird to see something fail so completely you go to websites that don't work maybe you have a problem for a day a couple of hours oh they their servers are being overloaded and they like get more servers and it's fix or whatever unless well it took Twitter like three years okay Twitter habits but Twitter you know major service and did get their stuff together this it did take them several years but it wasn't like every day you went Twitter was completely destroyed mm-hmm anyhow so government get it together talk to talk to the Vox product team you want to get some tips I have inaudible on how to build great websites there are many of them are in DC short walk try walking paradise it's true and that is our verge cast really for this week thank you guys for watching if you wanna get in touch with us you can email us at Virg Cass at the verge comm you can leave write something on our forums you can leave a comment on this post when it goes up you can find us on Twitter the verge is at Virg I'm Joshua Topolsky Eli is reckless Paulo's future Paul Ben poppers Ben popper and and you know this is it's early in the week for us but this will be it for the week yeah and you know for what's you know the you know the situation that's happening right now with you and your family I think we all feel you know we're gonna wait we're gonna watch we're gonna see what happens we don't know what'll happen we don't feel good about it but maybe you'll pull through