let's begin hello and welcome to the
verge cast
you may have noticed that something is
different about the flagship podcast of
The Verge dot Moby today we raided by
pirates no we're here I'm very excited
to say we're here in front of a live
audience in San Francisco today after
the iPhone event give ourselves a hand
and because it's the day after the
iPhone event we're gonna talk about
Windows Phone yeah only Windows Phone 90
minutes of pure Windows excitement no
but these people if you're listening in
your car just know that we'll be
interrupted by the shouts of drunkards
for the next 90 minutes but it's right
thing I would like I think
everybody's drinking responsibly that
I've seen so far I guess we're gonna all
figure it out together one it's anyway I
am the I have a towel and the energy at
the verge dieter bone is here hello Paul
Miller is here hello Lauren good is
joining us today how you doing Lauren
how are you guys so we should just get
into it I need to say some things that I
forgotten here are the things that you
say one we are part of the Vox media
podcast network we are the best podcast
in that network in case you were
confused about that situation
eet's fan out there yeah the weeds is
great they're like a tank
we're left flagship it's a very
different situation there's barreling
over the landscape of policy
good job Ezra but we sail through the
water the greatest cities second I want
to say thank you t-mobile is present
helping us present this live event today
so thank you to them but that's enough
business let's get in the business mmm
yesterday was the iPhone event we were
there dieter
Lauren and I were there are talented
video director Phil Esposito is with us
and there's lots of iPhone news or
iPhone 10 there's an iPhone 8 it's not
an iPhone 9
no troublesome no as a watch was able to
be but honestly the biggest thing
literally physically the biggest thing
that happened was that we went to Apple
park for the first time we're in the
Steve Jobs theater and it was it was
beautiful it was breathtaking it was
also very strange Lauren I think you at
one point described it to me it's
post-apocalyptic
yeah I had the distinct feeling that if
anything were to really go down you know
sometime soon as you sometimes read
about on Twitter these days that when
you would have survived if it happened
yesterday because we were in what felt
like this I don't know a hyper-realistic
post or surrealistic is that a word
surreal for surreal hyper surreal
postmoderns
bunker designed by Johnny I've but
dreamt up by Steve Jobs years ago you
know who's getting like the shaft and
all that is Norman Foster the very
famous architect who designed the
building I was like norm you're good
just take a seat buddy I'm with just
circle I've got it because I was not
there and it's a circle that's above
ground yeah and then you go into that
circle and then you descend into there
well that's just the Steve Jobs theater
so the part where employees are going to
be or I guess have started to populate
is the big circle that you've all seen
drone footage spaceship the spaceship
seeing it from a distance there's only
one way to describe the Apple the actual
Apple park
you know spaceship it looms yeah it
can't just it just looms it's it's
pretty impressive
no but the Steve Jobs theater is the
glass structure that has no apparent
beam so it's just this glass circle
that's somehow holding up a ceiling I
guess they're load-bearing glass panels
it's it's just remarkably beautiful and
then yes there is a staircase that kind
of goes below and then you go into the
Steve Jobs theater and that's where we
were yeah in that first room that you
walk into we took a bunch of photos
where there's photos everywhere but it's
eerie because they've aligned
all of the buildings to look perfect in
like the morning sunlight so everyone
like looks happy and beautiful and it's
a totally bare concrete floor and
there's just Apple employees and white
shirts smiling at you
yeah and it's like we're gonna die here
there's no chance that we're not because
it's too nice here everything's too nice
and then you go down and then you're in
the theater and behind you what you
don't understand is it the middle of the
circle is hidden from you and while
you're sitting there and Tim Cook is
like distracting you the middle of the
circle is opening to reveal the hands-on
area where you saw all of our videos not
just like quietly I mean it very much is
like a cult yeah it's like a the whole
campus is like a really super nice
College
I think jobs like modeled it after
Stanford he like loves Stanford so I
basically tore up a parking lot and then
built Hills in it which is very Apple we
got someone today told us all of the
concrete they dug up it was really
recycled into the building so we're very
proud of that so it felt like we had
arrived at college the first day I took
iPhone 101 how's the Wi-Fi oh my god the
Y have very different if any meat I had
zero problems with the Wi-Fi I had all
the problems never happened to me in a
tech event they says you have a newer
Mac than I it's cuz you're using your
Mac Pro from like it's because they did
seeing a MacBook Pro from 2012 and it
worked fine my theory is that they had
detected my useful USB ports SD card
reader it workable processor and just
shut me the down my favorite detail
about the the Steve Jobs theater in the
whole area it's Underground and every
door is actually like 14 inches thick at
minimum hmm it is ready for an
apocalypse yeah it might cause one there
are little things to like not to go to
TMI but like the doors to the bathrooms
are really nice you're like oh somebody
thought about the bathroom doors Johnny
I've Norman Foster has been takete and
the key pads and walls you know like
normal office buildings or like these
terrible ugly things that stick out from
the doorframe and these are just like
fluff these beautiful white pads flush
with the wall like where is the key
somewhat unfortunate to the movie the
circle came out
Yeah right before we went to a circle
that looked like we were going to die
but it was very beautiful and like one
of the most stunning things you can go
see you can actually go there there's a
visitor center that is a store yeah go
there it's a town hall it sounds square
L square it's a town square you can have
a civics situation there if you want but
anyway so we're there it's worth talking
about cuz it was just so amazing to be
there we're gonna go there a lot and
it's gonna get less amazing over time
but this time was amazing but then they
announced a whole bunch of stuff yeah
yeah it was all leaked you could read
about in the first thing but they
actually announced the stuff it was
great where should we start it's like
some medium what about at most support
in Adobe TV
yeah sale what they came here for I just
want to point this out the verge is
created a community where 200 people
paid tickets to hear about surround
sound formats let's just do let's just
do that let's start with let's start
with the Apple TV get it out of the way
and then we'll go to iPhone 10k iPhone X
I just want the crowd if you understand
the following joke I want you to yell
and Cheer I'm gonna yell anyway there
are four lights these guys are you keep
quiet Joey not they're not next
generation fans it really disappoints me
yeah okay so Apple TV was like it was
first up here's I think the most
important thing to know about the Apple
to you guys it was when we were done
with the event there I go play with all
the stuff there is no Apple TV they're
like literally they were like yeah that
didn't happen because the only update to
it is the resolution update
oh no the remote is
they put a ring around one of the
buttons so that you could maybe know
which way it was pointing when you
picked it up yeah they didn't mention it
during the keynote or the thing we had
to ask them later like yeah we added a
ridge of plastic that's great it's the
biggest upgrade to the Apple TV in years
everybody know literally the one thing
they added was 4k HDR and they came out
and they did all the stuff yeah and they
the was the founder or CEO of Dolby was
there was the CEO of Dolby was there and
I think you all know this I'm very
excited about the idea of having both
dolby vision which is better than HDR 10
and dolby atmos just like object-based
surround sound happening in my life yeah
the thing I want I don't want to go to
the movie theater want all the lights to
light up on your receiver all of the
lights so did you get all the lights no
I did not what in fact they were so
confused about the lights I assumed when
I was adding to them afterwards I was
like this is great it's a thing and like
you're gonna they also announced that
all your iTunes purchases that you did
an HD will be automatically upgraded 4k
which is great which is great it smells
oh that was great
they're gonna be cheaper than like
voodoo and Amazon all the other people
oh that's great well this is a huge win
I'm gonna get all the lights and save
some money you know there's free
upgrades I don't watch movies for days
excited to spend $180 on it and then in
I was talking to them later and I I was
so excited that I just assumed that all
the lights would light up and I was like
how was that Mustang going and I'm like
and then like later on they're like we
forgot to tell you something this is a
true story like later on I got a note if
the email had an emoji
thank you tucking his hair behind his
ear sheepishly and they're like yeah
we're just not doing it and I was like
why and they're like we have nothing to
say they couldn't get the extra to the
fourth light because they don't actually
employ any Romulan torture and they're
gonna make this joke app just happening
it's you're listening to the podcast
roots are pull over it wasn't all
episode should I watch to be able to get
this joke which I don't know which of
the Star Trek's is it I don't know
somebody somebody somebody google it for
us real quick you're sitting same
computers
speaking of computers there's a mistake
no no mysterious MacBook Air it's been
here all day you know this isn't a
surprise it's not a reveal it doesn't
have an iPhone in it literally just
someone's computer I think it's one of
Walt Mossberg because well there's
there's the one thing I will say about
it okay it's very expensive right it's
like it's really actually quite
expensive and I think that their
intention for it is that all the people
who have 4k TVs who have just held onto
their Apple TVs because they have bought
a lot of movies and iTunes already will
get the upgrade they'll be so happy that
their TV is 4k now because they haven't
bought a Roku in the meantime I think
that is very hopeful of them and I think
the enthusiast community that would have
otherwise bought it is already
disappointed yeah I don't understand why
you're putting it's basically a home
theater PC right it's more powerful than
a Mac Mini it has an a-10 in it the Mac
Mini has like a steam engine you write
like there's a world in which that thing
is actually a computer and they run apps
on joy so there and we're gonna talk
about that funny - they have entered a
weird middle of the market where the
bottom of the market is gonna buy
something very cheap that's useful and
good and the top of the market is gonna
say this isn't the thing I want or
they're gonna buy something else that
does more so I don't know we're gonna
get one we're gonna review it see what
lights I can get out of it the potential
that you do a software update and then
you buy the thing it has all the lights
in the frame you under you people
understand one guy understand that's
great okay let's talk about phones we
don't know how many TVs
go ahead eight there's a tour thing I
had my okay i sad thing okay so the
thing that I will say that is not
popular is there's only two things
different between the eight and the ten
and the eight is not getting enough
respect I think the eight is an iPhone
10 for all intents and purposes except
for the screen and the crazy selfie face
on the screen in the front off
but same processor back cameras just as
good the screen isn't like as amazing
but like it's an iPhone screen that
looks fine
you know you you've got you wait you
mean the plus the plus ya the plus which
it's a big dopey surfboard of a phone
does the plus plus doesn't have optical
image stabilization for both cameras yes
I think it does no just the one ever but
it does have wireless charging rate
wireless charging everyone angrily
Google just angrily foster audience you
know the problem with being in the event
when you live login take photos new
things oh yeah you actually have no idea
what he'll remember no information just
goes into your brain and then goes then
turns on the live life and then we have
to go back and read our own live blogs
later I watch all the events in 3x speed
afterwards which is very entertaining I
recommend everyone I think we can we can
get the eight like the basic specs of it
out of the way you all know it it's got
the bionic sensor Apple started naming
their chips I'm Bionic wait tell them
the reason the reasons amazing so I mean
every year there's an incremental
process into incremental there's a
significant processor upgrade and it's
it's numeric it's you know the a9 or the
a-10 or whatever it might be and then
the iPad it's the X right but people
weren't making this big of a deal of
that as Apple wanted so they started
giving it a name like fusion or Bionic
and now we're all talking about it and
saying it's kinda Bionic sensor yeah
because the numbers just weren't doing
it right but like fusion you get it's
taking two different things and fusing
them together and you get both that's
great but what were they do different
things things ionic either means
electronic thing that is inspired by a
biological thing the original definition
or it means bionic man a biological
thing that is infused with technology
it's a chip for running machine learning
algorithm
so it's it's it's therefore informed by
the structure of our brain
well neural network so once again this
by the way Jeff Hawkins did not inderal
network he just wrote a really good book
that I highly recommend about our brains
work all by the way if you're not aware
youngins Wow
pushing the fact that you're old super
old today okay so but 12 megapixel
camera optical image stabilization I'm
just the one yeah you're right
everyone's right about the one camera
should buy an iPhone xio speakers sound
very good what it's like on the earpiece
and on the bottom thing it's I think a
little bit overdue that we got that on
an iPhone but it's great I'm happy to
have it and it it feels better than you
expect like I was expecting to walk it
be like oh it's just another iPhone 7
which is just another iPhone 6 but it
does feel significantly better they did
a better job with the glass back on the
iPhone 8 than I and most other companies
do it's like Galaxy s8 quality in terms
of its how well-built
I read that when you guys wrote that for
the verge calm how can you tell that
glass is better by just touching it what
do you touch it yeah I dropped it yeah
no I mean like so the Galaxy has the
weird curve and it comes to that edge
because the front screen and the s7 had
like the rail that like stuck out and
then the s8 it like floating you're
talking about the flat surface yeah like
as a physical object just strictly as a
physical object
yo it's an iPhone it's like got giant
bezels but it's like it's a very nicely
made iPhone it's also the one most
people are gonna get I think well that
is a big question so your argument is
that there's really no need to get that
excited about the I want to say X all
the time about the 10 because the iPhone
is just as good - that is why I'm sorry
- you I'm saying I'm not saying that's
just as good but I'm saying that if you
go out and get an 8 or an 8 plus you
shouldn't feel bereft you shouldn't feel
like oh I didn't get the good one
everybody else is better than me
you should feel like you got it until
you get your first an emoji I'm the
lamest kid at this private school that's
your life now you had $700 but not
$1,000 that's who you are
you brought the v6 Mustang that was me
that was my high school Mustang with
edge weight Paulie you actually wrote it
wait wait I want to stop doing this I've
own analysis let's talk about the ten
and what it is Lauren you held it hand
you played with it I did it's beautiful
I was surprised by that I am NOT the
first person to upgrade to the newest
phones or like or just in general for a
gadget reviewer I tend to take my time I
am carrying this success right now I
found Jack with a headphone jack and I
live blog yesterday on a late 2012
MacBook Pro so keys are missing it's
amazing so like you know I'm just I'm
not like the fastest person to upgrade
and I thought well I'm not whatever this
iPhone 10 is if it's $1,000 I am a real
human being and I immediately am gonna
be like yeah I don't know I'll probably
just go for whatever one is next beyond
that I saw it and I thought that's a
really beautiful phone
I thought the display was absolutely
beautiful I thought it was designed
really nicely there like like the
elongated camera on the back is like a
little jarring at first but there's of
course a design reason for that the
stuff that it appears to be able to do
which is very limited in the hands on
areas like impressive so I'm still not
like rush out and buy this thing but I
don't know just it's a really nice
looking phone and in like I've brought
this up a lot in the past few days and
we've written about this we did this in
our Instagram live which you guys
probably saw
not that I expect anyone here followed
or Instagram live you all did but like
is doing everything after everybody else
they they're doing edge to edge OLED
display they're doing biometric
unlocking they're doing wireless
charging they're doing like all the
stuff after everybody else but they just
have such control
full-stack of everything that there are
little things that they can do to make
it better and we're not gonna know if it
actually is better until we use the
phone but there's like a good chance
that there are certain things that are
definitely better I mean just in a
little bit of time I got to play the
face ID it is miles better than any
Samsung implementation of that and that
you know to set it up oh you said I set
it up any incident it it worked I set it
up and I would say that it failed on me
a couple of times I like to ten times I
tried it but the times that it worked it
was super worked and I think it failing
wasn't me like not knowing the precise
angle to like pointed out I think it
family was probably your hair was not
quite as high as Craig federighi it's it
definitely feels more accurate than
Samsung's face unlock and is thousand
percent more convenient and Samsung's
iris scanning so I think that in general
at least or just basic unlocking and
using her phone it's maybe gonna be like
a half step back in terms of convenience
from touch ID but that'll iterate over
time and you're not like gonna suffer if
you get this and don't have touch ID
it's like or next year they're gonna
figure out how to put the fingerprint
sensor into the screen right right I
mean that's like the big rumor but so
the way it works in case none of you
okay I could pull anyone up from the
audience today tell me how they said but
if you're listening in a car in this so
it has array of sensors they called true
depth at the top of the phone in the
notch the notch is very controversial
but in that notch is all the sensors
there is an infrared camera a flood
illuminator a proximity sensor an
ambient light sensor a speaker a
microphone a front camera and a dot
projector so here's the thing about the
dot for summer it's almost like a tiny
Kinect right yeah it's a little tiny and
you can have it pause movies whenever
you want so here's the thing this is the
connexxus people will use this how many
people so how many people here have a
Kinect under their TV right now it's it
I can't see you so it's just me okay yes
one yes okay here's the thing about this
and I will tell you my family about this
and we'll share our shame together the
dot projector if you watch our hands-on
video I didn't see this but our camera
picked it up it's constantly blinking at
you because it's projecting IR dots on
your face it's a IR blaster on
the front of this phone which makes me
think that someone is gonna like
jailbreak the phone and turn it into a
remote and that's what I want that's
like all I want out of this it's like
all of that design all of that
engineering and you can be like I turned
the volume up but it works
tango module for your face it's it's
wild so dinner had at work on his face I
when we rush to do our video I was not
able to set up because there's some
people behind me so I just had that this
poor gentleman from Apple who's like job
it is to walk you through the demos it
was set up for his face and I this poor
guys in our video I kept pointing at his
face which is hilarious in this context
not so hilarious in the context of like
the cops yeah right and like you can't
reset your face if it's your password it
doesn't work if your eyes are closed so
if you get pulled over
- shut your eyes forever huh
what yeah okay yes you're a pirate okay
that's a approach for you is to have an
emergency security eyepatch at all times
but it's also supposed to recognize as
you age grow your hair long if you were
a hat glasses makeup unclear sunglasses
will trigger it or not so there's all
these this set of questions that I think
remain unanswered about it and you know
Apple try to address some of them in the
presentation I'm sure they're gonna
address more of them over time but you
know they had the wall of like Arya
Stark masks we've we've made all these
faces it didn't trick them for the movie
face off Nicolas Cage was there
yesterday it was very strange it was
John Travolta so we were like but you
know they're also like if you have a
twin you should probably just use your
passcode yeah which is a really weird
thing for the richest and most powerful
company in technology to say like we've
solved every problem except twins that
doesn't have no one has those so I think
there's like this whole set of questions
about what it means for literally the
most public part of you to be your
password because ever
you can't constantly hide your face you
can't keep it a secret you can't I don't
write it down on a piece of paper and
like tuck it away and that's not great
like I think if all of us understand
it's not a good solution like having a
password but to go from something that
you can obviously keep a secret to
something that can never truly be a
secret I think is like very difficult
and that to me is a whole set of
questions about face ID like can they
navigate all those turns I mean yeah I
mean like great you can click so people
are yelling five six two people two
nerds who have drugs with them right now
are you wait but can you explain to me
why is it off-script now so so
fundamentally more easy to take a
picture of a face then get your
and I guess because you have to touch me
to get my fingerprint I was wondering
like at the point in the point-of-sale
situation right now we're all a lot of
us are you just going like this and then
your thumb is already there mmm now
you're gonna be like if you have a
thousand-dollar iPhone you're in line at
Whole Foods like all the other thousand
dollar iPhone people Amazon's lowering
prices hold on hold those avocados hold
my beer yeah thank you very much I'll
take my kombucha now Yeah right like is
it that much easier than just going like
this yeah what they would base what
Apple will tell you and you're like do
you really have to like hold your face
over the point-of-sale terminal like no
no just like double-click the home the
home the side button knows that called
sleep/wake button it's called the side
button now it's a whole bunches fix me
Oh God
double-click that that turns on the face
unlock thing that's on Apple pay
then you authenticate it then you tap
the terminal which is a very different
sort of quick and easy workflow from
just doing before I can barely pay with
my thumb already well I I the security
stuff where you click it five times and
you I get it but what I'm saying is if
you can actually beat it the information
that is required for you to to input
into the mechanism that beats it is the
most public information about you that
is commonly available so they have to
make sure you can't beat it
and like the cops showing up and you
click it five times and like I throw it
in the air and run away
great we've all been there I travel
through the TSA a lot with a bag full of
wires so like
but it's just on my way here I got
stopped because I I mean honestly I was
kind of like 15 lithium-ion batteries
but if you can beat it and you know
there's like dieter yesterday was
talking about
it has new vectors so touch ID only ever
talked to the authentication ship and
the phone yeah never talk to anything
else but the front camera and all that
tracking talks to an emoji right so like
it's you can get that data in other ways
like the snapchat filters we demoed or
obviously mapping your face yeah other
ways to collect the data and then
potentially say I'm sure and immediately
people are going to try to beat it yeah
but the I actually talked to our
security reporter Russell Brand them
about this a little bit presumably those
apps that use the you know the data that
you can get from that to make crazy face
filters is it's just working through an
API and that stuff isn't lost but like
the fear is you somebody makes a random
what was the the app that did the face
filters that turned out to have much
spyware in it what meets you me - yeah
like that app is like makes cute face
filters but what it's actually doing is
secretly recording on your face data so
then you build a mask to get you
it's probably like through the standard
API is like they're not getting enough
data to do that we don't know I love the
idea of a person with both the
capability of launching that app yeah
and making really high-res masks right
right like there's a mask maker out
there was like I had a learn to
code this is my future so probably you
wrote I want to make sure you talk about
the watch I'm gonna talk about how you
think this is the best OLED screen ever
made by human hands I also want to talk
about the notch there's like two things
that oh yeah let's just let's see the
notch first and then I want to ask Paul
cuz you wrote a piece say about why you
want to buy the eight over the 10 but so
we the knotch
I don't have you guys have been
following like the deep apple nerd
community that I'm forced to follow I
find it a pleasure
there there but so there's like deep
meaningful like controversy about the
existence of the knotch what it means
for developers I think the thing that is
really interesting to me is the screen
is five point eight inches like Peter
said I think it is easily the best OLED
screen I've ever seen I've never really
liked them I think they're way
oversaturated I think most have weird
pixel matrix issues this one he wants to
say pentile but he knows at that time
has passed so he's not bringing it over
yeah but no you're good you're great
comes up TCL's gonna take care if you
know said look it looks beautiful but
the knotch
it's five-point interested but the notch
and then the rounded corners rounded
corners I think are the big and then the
the home area at the bottom that you
have to protect all of that means that
the usable screen area is more like the
iPhone six seven eight design than the
plus design I heard a really good
analogy for this do you remember like
old cameras would have kind of a safe
area like show the corners of what's
like this will definitely show up on
every CRT TV that is what developers
have now because there are rounded
corners and a bunch of this screen is
being wasted
also Apple threw the WebKit team asked
the CSS committee to add safe areas to
the CSS spec back in August and then
like so that on the github comments
there's it like a comment just like from
yesterday I was like oh
try to figure out how do you add this to
CSS so that like oh because if you look
at look at your computer the next time
is there anything in the corners yeah
there's lots of things in the corners a
lot of times the close buttons are in
the quarters there's things that we put
in the corners of our user interfaces
all the time and now you have to be
cognizant as a developer both for the
web and for apps and there'll be some
ways that are
we kind of dodged them out of the
corners but like if you want to use the
whole screen you have to figure out how
to not use corners because they're
curved the other thing about the safe
area thing is that in order to get the
you know the home bar that indicates
that you swipe out to go home to work it
needs to cut that out from safe area and
when you rotate the phone I tried this
what I do nothing what okay projector
shenanigans great
everyone loves a projector fanatic when
you turn the phone in landscape the home
button moves to the bottom of the
landscape you swipe up in landscape to
go home just cool cool but also bonkers
my own swipe to go home calm now usable
area for developers when your landscape
mode is shorter than you get on an
iPhone 6 7 8 yeah actually is less
usable vertical space in landscape mode
than like a regular iPhone oh so if your
app is not coded correctly internet in
the landscape and you scroll the scroll
bar I think all of this doesn't matter
because one tab I don't use any app
except for video apps I go 90 I'm not
ashamed to admit it
oh god this show is presented by
t-mobile and go and I needs a terrible
joke so it all works out
so like video apps you turn your phone
videos are pillar boxed so you don't
actually see it attend their pillar box
yeah you can double tap to get the full
zoom in and have it not cut out but by
default they're boxed so Apple just
didn't show that yesterday so I think
everyone's assuming that videos are
gonna be cut off by the knotch
but I think more importantly this phone
is designed to be held in portrait yeah
which is actually the more natural way
to hold a phone and I think in portrait
the bottom is in issue but the top is
just not bottoms the most you in terms
of the content getting cut off yeah the
corners in the bottom of screen I know
the dead space you're talking about
that's where you're gonna be doing the
swiping up anyway right like when you're
holding the phone like your fingers are
gonna be sort of curling around it so
here's my big question like I'm
all freaked out I'm fine with it because
I used a bunch of Android phones and
they all have crazy you eyes and like
things will be different it's cool
no it's fine no this is one dieter's jam
for like two days
he's like androids a mess and everyone's
alive yeah it's you'll be fine it's fine
and like swipe up to go home love that
that's a right there
[Laughter]
moving control center to the upper-right
swipe down to get your system controls
love that that's some webOS right
there every app is a website we're only
available on sprint it's a super tall
phone and they because there's no home
button to slightly tap with your finger
twice there's no more reach ability to
move half the screen down I think I
killed the 3d touch from the side for
switching apps still exists but our
understanding and we don't we don't have
like the deep dive into this yet but our
understanding is because the display is
different and so and of course the
display stack is different and so the
usual mechanism that was created to make
3d touch work on the existing models
they had to like do a bunch of new stuff
too I just like kiss the microphone I
was so excited about this do a bunch of
different stuff too in order to fit the
3d mechanism into the display stack and
we don't know exactly like where that is
yet it's different they had to redesign
3d touch for for the 10 and that might
be why they are de-emphasizing in the
software because they're not we used to
be there it's almost like you know for
awhile like everyone said multi-touch
every chance they got and now it's like
just assumed I think that we're getting
to a point where for people who do use
3d touch it's like it's just kind of
assumed it's part of like your your
interface and your controls and that's
what you do well you also on the
the home bar on the bottom you can you
can swipe to the right and it will that
is how you switch to the last app and
you can just switch through apps that
way you know once you do it a couple
times like oh yeah this is how it should
work it's great explain that again on
the home our home bar you you swipe up
to home to go home calm but if you just
swipe over on it it swipe it's it swipes
the app over to your last app oh so you
just just very quickly without having to
do any 3d touch shenanigans you just
swipe over and it's the last app you're
using it's great it's a little grabber
for your app and if you throw it up you
go home if you slide question is hold
down on it a 3d touch home button where
you could just press on it really hard
here's my question I mean if they tried
that and it just didn't work question
why didn't they do something crazy and
absurd down in the bottom portion of the
phone like I know I was so stoked on all
the wild UI concepts I saw that they're
gonna basically use that portion to
create like sort of a contextual UI and
now that I think about it is kind of
stupid to have a software circle there
all the time obviously the things change
around yeah but I just feel like they
made not only did they not like super
utilize the bottom of the phone they
kind of made it like a safe area
literally they call it a safe area
because of that little bar that always
has to be like available for grabbing so
you can't have too many controls at the
bottom of the here's already getting
more screen than you would have
otherwise right you're already getting
more screen just cuz they reserved a
portion of it to like work the phone
like fine I thought it might have
something to do with like drag and drag
and drop like you can have like a dock
that shows up there like you could make
multitasking better somehow no I
honestly think that their move here
they're not gonna sell very many of this
phone and the people who buy it I think
they're gonna be caught in the loop of I
spent a lot of money on this phone cuz
so he honest said I I think most people
will buy the 256 gig version which is
eleven hundred twenty-five dollars so
like really this phone costs 11 I think
if you spend that much money on a phone
that is actually a very beautiful
physical object your natural state of
being is to be happy with it's like I
bought a Ferrari and it gets terrible
gas mileage like it's dead silence or
there's like two of them and they're
like we can't talk about it
no I think they're able because the
scale is so much smaller to do things
like what if we completely change the
home button control center swipe
interface what if we push it and then
there they have a year of seeing how
that goes
they can either commit to it or change
it in iOS 12 when that comes to the
mainstream part of their lineup but they
do have this opportunity to screw around
and I agree with you like I don't know
why they didn't screw on more but
they've created a space to a revert if
it's a huge fail the amount of changes
they've made or to push it if it's a
success and I think that's cool okay I
want to make sure we talk about the
watch yeah so Lauren
you have been cursèd with wearable
reviews no but you you're you've
reviewed the last few watches
yeah this one is the it's the same watch
with all te basically as expected
everything really was leaked yeah yeah
so this Apple watch has LTE in it it is
not the first SmartWatch to have LTE
some of you may have tried LG's LTE
SmartWatch before also did some more
Ferrari owners and LG perhaps Samsung's
Galaxy gear was the s2 or was it was the
s3 also crickets me on the spot yeah
gear had a better implication so here's
the thing when you're talking about
these little wrist computers that are
about yay big and you start to add
things like cellular modems and more
stuff to them is that the battery life
generally suffers so that was my biggest
thing going into this was like how how
badly or how much is this going to
impact battery life we don't know yet
stay tuned for reviews I told you people
in the audience this earlier but but
Apple is
saying that they've managed to keep the
18 hour battery claim even with an LTE
modem which if they managed to do that
is impressive but I'm not wholly
convinced I'm not only convinced like
there was this moment when during the
introduction when they showed a woman on
a surfboard and she was like catching
this wave and then all of a sudden she
got a phone call and I supposed to be
this light-hearted moment but I was like
wow that's just like totally I don't
know I just feel like there's someplace
to still reach and have an LTE
connection some places in the world
where you can escape from a cellular
connection for me the standout is seeing
the keep the number keypad on that phone
display that was that's terrifying to me
yeah it's like at the end of the day I
think what's going to happen is people
are going to use the LTE for true
emergency situations like your your
phone battery died and you're like I
still need to call a lyft or you know
where are we all laughing I thought you
were laughing because I didn't say uber
oh we call lifts okay a lot of time in
the Bay Area but the idea of ride
sharing service fans leave California
all right so back back to the watch I
think that it's gonna be helpful in some
situations I think like once they get
the music streaming thing down on it
that that could be a real value
proposition for people who want to go
out and about with a watch and they want
to just like on the fly change their
music selection they happen not have
their phone with them but we I mean the
the LTE watches we reviewed prior to
this it's been a little it's been a
little iffy so it's it's still yeah I
mean I think what Apple is doing is like
it's a kind of a classic product
differentiation right that we no longer
see the series to available so we've got
the series three with LTE there's a
series three without LTE that's the
price of the series two if you don't
want LTE you can still get GPS and
waterproofing which like work out people
like
I say that like I'm not one of them and
and then there's the series one for
people who just which is less the least
expensive for people who just want kind
of like a basic SmartWatch that has like
notifications another and the other cool
things like that
so this is just like classic like okay
if you want to pay the most you're gonna
have this LTE thing and maybe you're not
gonna use it all the time but it's like
the feature it's a thing I mean there's
a faster processor the antenna into the
face of the watch which is interesting
that is really cool they figured it out
you have to imagine that that was they
had been thinking about that with the
first and by the way Fitbit did
something similar with their new like
ionic SmartWatch they did some fusion
thing and the build where the antenna is
actually like anyway we can fit in
another podcast we can spin in another
entire hour and but let's talk about the
red dot okay a lot of feelings about
that red a lot of feelings about the red
dot so it's just cosmetic
my understand twill it's cosmetic to
indicate the LTE yeah so tell people I
have a watch but by the way if my phone
guys I can call a lift which is when
you're in line at Whole Foods and you've
got that really heavy book grocery bag
of avocados you're screaming at your
wrist
laughter $1,000 iPhone at home it kind
of looks like a record button yeah I
think it looks like an SOS button which
is just because the watch actually has
an SOS feature but it like to me it
looks like like I'm urgency rich do you
guys get one would you like get an LTE
Apple watch if the if I had the money to
spare it's like it's an extra 70 bucks
for the LTE version it's ten bucks a
month for the connection then I would
not it's a good point like the 10 bucks
like unless they make a project five
version because extra data Simpson fire
free
Cheers but that's never yeah I don't
know what I want to pay ten bucks a
month for my watch is the question about
that too is not just that you're paying
for LTE but it's gonna be how
intelligently they manage the handoff
because there's already like right you
can use a lot of things with bluetooth
on the watch or if you're in an area
where there's an own Wi-Fi network then
the watch will connect to that and then
it's you know it's not like using the
other protocols and so they're gonna do
this handoff thing where it's gonna go
from different wireless protocols to LTE
when you need it and they think how well
it works is all gonna be dependent on
that handoff process will it work as
well as the lift your arm or tweak your
arm gesture to actually have the watch
face turn on that's an excellent
question works that well Apple watch
Bernie so you've got to review the thing
we've got but they're winning right so
if they just make it incrementally
better yeah I'm just gonna keep trucking
along basically I presented a slide
yesterday that I thought was fascinating
they're like we're now the number one
watch brand in the world and they just
like listen all the but the metric by
which they're number one was not
presented and the second one that they
listed was Rolex and it's like okay
there can't be number of watches sold
its revenue Rolex like sells for million
dollar watches a year and Apple sells
like that many number of like three
hundred so like I said their sales have
increased 50% year-over-year and then if
you look at the latest IDC numbers which
puts out these reports of like global
wearable shipments every soft and
they're actually now only number two to
Xiaomi so sha means beating them in a
volume which is not surprising because
it's Xiaomi but Apple has now stuck
ahead a Fitbit which is like had a lot
of sales declines this year it's not
kind of Garmin which is impressive
because like there and that sort of
sports enthusiast category so yeah and
in Cook has said in sort of vague terms
this business is the size of 4-inch
fortune 500 business on its own so it's
like it's a real thing at Apple but you
know how many people here are wearing
smartwatches probably a lot in this
crowd right
yeah there's a good amount dude yeah
he's like I have four if it's more than
ten thanks Joe you just boosted the
average for the rest of like I think for
like a lot of normal people still
they're like I don't know if I need a
SmartWatch I still think that's a very
real question yeah
how about watch for kids yeah that's
dystopian and then you release them into
the cement circle and just chase them
around okay we are
I told everyone that we were gonna go
long and we have certainly gone long
long so what I really want to thank you
for coming on stage seeing these people
but I want to bring out it dude right
now the only person I can think of to
talk about an emoji with Casey Newton
everybody that Steve Austin's music is
Texas rattlesnake I just say the last
time I was in this physical space I saw
Mark Zuckerberg and his wife Priscilla
Chan announce a campaign to end all
human disease so it's great to hear you
guys talk about the iPhone but anyway
what are we saying
I just shook a bunch of strangers hands
and then ate food so that happened in
this room yes and this in this very room
and how's it going as far as I can tell
cancer still a thing
so all right Casey before we begin I
don't want to forget that was dark by
the way that was and I'm just getting
started this is like a professional
improv comedian now and that was one of
the roughest chuckles I've ever I don't
forget Paul a week buddy oh you do a
thing what's a call buddy it's called is
there a refrigerator in this thing come
up with a new title because it's called
the is there a refrigerator in this
thing the famous verge cast segment this
is this is burning up the internet today
is something called bodega and a Jill
filled the room there is a refrigerator
in this oh no that's
I'm pretty sure they sell beverages in
this bodega but it does not seem to be
refrigerated so you can get like a
lukewarm vitamin water what the bodega
is so bodega imagine a box in in a
building and you approach that box and
you give that box of money somehow and
you receive a product from that box what
would you call that a vending machine
yeah no it's a bodega let's give the
disrupt the bodega industry and mom
pop and first-generation immigrants are
all gonna be out of business and
destitute and Silicon Valley meanwhile
is going to take all the money
big bodega has it coming I don't know I
think I think it's hilarious guys made a
box that has like some machine learning
in it so that basically you unlock it
with your phone open listing your car
I'm making aggressive squirt scare
quotes at the words machine people do
it's a job no machines do it like you
can get a udemy course on machine
learning right so it's you Google Excel
it's like a code Academy course law your
quotes oh boy
machines can do that now bow all right
go ahead don't be mean to code can be
great so you you unlock this box and
then like it sees what you take out of
it and it charges it to your account and
so the idea is that they're gonna put
them in like apartment buildings or like
gyms or kind of shared spaces that are
relatively secure because this box
doesn't look very secure but um there
was a huge crown Aversa today because
they called the bodega and I think what
Vega means a lot to a lot of people dit
like a vendor with no no yeah like
vendor with exactly no valves okay so
you're my resident Silicon Valley
silliness yes yes and the name was a
really bad choice well we learned today
is that 80% of a New Yorkers identity is
that they're friends with a cat in a
convenience store if you read Twitter
today man did you hear about the deep
deep friendships that these rich people
have people who work at their bodega
yeah I don't I don't believe any of that
by the way I think they buy Cheetos
there and tell themselves they have a
friend who's unlike them that's not real
here's the thing that is real is that
technology is displacing jobs and
technology has no answer for that and
Silicon Valley is extremely callous
about that and it's only alternative to
you job seems to be what if we just like
have the government right you at
right so Silicon Valley doesn't have the
first thing to do about it doesn't know
the first thing to do about like what is
happening because of automation so when
things like bodega come along with the
implication that they're gonna get rid
of real people's jobs then I think there
is a justified backlash against it
because it does come across as as
idiotic now the founders of bodega said
in a medium post today which was
inevitable and had 241 collapse the last
time I'll it doesn't count you have to
clap on the website this is real
laughing authors do not campaign unless
you physically clap on the website what
the author said was essentially if they
that they feel really sorry about the
name because they never intended to go
head-to-head with actual convenience
stores they just wanted to put vending
machines and apartment complexes and
apparently they done a bunch of market
research that said that like immigrants
did not object to this name so anyway
the whole thing is a huge mess but I
think if they had to do it over again
they'd pick a different name yeah
also I think that the Fast Company
headline was like this Silicon Valley
startups wants to deport immigrants it's
like they didn't they didn't write that
it's not fair for me to ever complain
about headlines an emoji yeah okay see
that's why you're here here we've got
the stark stuff and talk about talking
foxes so well how much an emoji are you
well as far as I was able to ascertain
yesterday there is no eggplant an emoji
feels like a missed opportunity to me
you know my thing is that the an emoji
are apparently in the iMessage App Store
is that right you have to access the App
Store to use them or how's that work
okay so you have a keyboard you do click
on the App Store icon yeah the first
thing that opens is an emoji I said then
you're another level away training you
to click on that button that is true but
whether you will ever go to AI once
hired a private investigator to find the
iMessage app store and I'm still waiting
to hear
look I think these I think these things
are fun but all of the recent kind of
social enhancement to iMessage have felt
a little bit either half-hearted or too
late to me like how many times if I
messaged users out there in the past day
has someone sent you something with
lasers right like this stuff is there
but I don't think it gets widely used
and so I think you might see a few
novelty foxes and panda faces in your
iMessage but I don't think this is going
to become like the new default way for
teens to communicate it's it's it's a
bummer to me that it's locked iMessage
because I hate things that are locked I
message here is just watching a gift I
am smiling at him on his computer right
now I wanted to look at I wanted to gaze
upon the different emoji options and a
gif is the first thing that came up so
we have to try it though and I will tell
you it is the most fun I've had with the
phone in the past six months
it is wildly fun to like talk to your
phone and have an emoji literally like
beat for beat no lag at all become your
face like I became a little dog
yesterday it was very cute sure but are
you gonna deny that that was cute it
would never deny that that's cute it was
very cute but the thing is I've been
using snapchat for four years right and
they have lenses that are not actually
all that different so I don't deny that
the technology is cute I think some
people will have a little bit of fun
with it
and it is a novel demonstration of this
technology that they built into this
very expensive phone like I don't know I
just think I message is such an amazing
platform for Apple I would love to see
them invest like ten times more in it
because there's actually a lot of
research out there that it's really the
number one chat app for teens right
because like for teens having iPhone is
such a status symbol and it's where most
of their communications are going on so
me I'm like you could just imagine
iMessage being so much more than it is
right now yeah you know I think the
thing about animage it gets me is the
way they want you to use it is that
you're gonna record a movie yeah and I
don't like I don't do that with iMessage
ever I never send the little audio
messages so the idea that I'm gonna
respond to someone instead of like
sending them one quick emoji I pull out
my phone and like
act out a quiet scene for them right I
feel recording a lady what do you think
you would maybe invest a little time and
making it I will constantly tell you
that if I send my wife
a talking poop I'm literally married to
a divorce attorney I will do this
for free I don't think that's gonna
happen I'll try out try it we'll just
see what happens now I mean I sure but
yeah I think you're right I think the
snapshot is like it's so much farther
and there's a huge incremental upgrade
to snapchat filters that stuff when I
tried on yesterday was also incredible
okay but what was dick I've watched this
video it looked like a snapchat filter
what was the difference the so usually
went on when I used to have such filters
or Instagram filters I think a little
bit worse yeah there is a perceptible
lag between what you're doing and what
the computer is pasting onto your face
none of it is there it just looks
actually like it's applied to your face
it became the dancing hot dog
I was the dancing hunter yeah that's my
that's my just dancing away the world
yeah that's a great look to the extent
that all this is making augmented
reality a thing I think it's really
exciting you know something that did not
get a lot of attention yesterday at the
keynote but that has been huge
particularly on Twitter is all these
novel applications of a arkad right like
there there are Twitter accounts where
you can just see everyday novel
applications of AR kit and it's some of
the absolute coolest stuff that is being
done with the iPhone yeah so I hope you
see a lot more of that and I hope Apple
talks a lot more about that so an emoji
like great use for that but I think the
AR stuff that is gonna come out in the
next six months isn't having nothing to
do with an emoji and like that's gonna
be the stuff we're talking about also
the limited amount of people who are
gonna have the 10 I it's not gonna be a
huge number of people
it just isn't but only because of supply
constrict like this is where I differ
from you guys like I I think that it's
the eight that is not going to be a huge
hit and I think that Apple is gonna sell
every time that it makes because I think
you either want the best iPhone or you
want the iPhone that you can best afford
and the eight is neither of those so
okay like let's posit that anybody who
can spend 750 andr dollars for an 8 or 8
+ or $50 a month will and if they could
would get the 10
because it's like not that much more on
an amortized carrier plan so let's let's
stipulate that's true and let's also
further stipulate that it seems likely
that apples not gonna be able make
enough of these damn things resolves the
Model United Nations show so what
happens on I was in November 20th when
I'm my phone breaks I need to go buy a
phone I've surveyed the market I didn't
buy a phone in the fall because I'm not
an idiot
and I you know my fault till after all
the phones are announced that's what I
mean
and I go and I discover that if I want
to get an iPhone 10 I have to wait until
June right it's gonna the backlog is
that long I waited six weeks for my air
pod and I add my air pods and I still
feel sad about it but I wait it do you
think that most people are gonna do that
are they gonna quote-unquote settle for
an eight I think that's so many for so
many people like the the the the current
year iPhone it's a status symbol it's
something they look forward to all year
like I absolutely think that people are
going to wait particularly those like us
we're buying a new phone every year say
there's a two month wait for the new
phone they'll wait because the phone
they have in their pocket is a seven or
a seven s and it's fine right like they
only want it because it does some cool
stuff it's gonna look cool when they
bring it out of parties I think people
are absolutely gonna wait for the 10
yeah I think the question is are they
gonna wait so long that it's next
September it's true that there's a 12
month wait for the iPhone 10 everything
yeah I I think that's the most
interesting problem for them I hung out
by the way with a guy named Kunal due
today was the editor in chief of gadgets
360 which is the biggest tech site in
India it's actually bigger than the
verge and it's just Indian audiences and
he told me that Indian buyers on average
buy a new phone every nine months they
cover two phone launches a day there's
an average of ten phones launched in
India every week and they all the
companies have price segments from that
are like Samsung as a phone and every
eight dollars which is every 500 rupees
like zero to the top of the line and
he's like the reason the iPhone 6s still
exists is because it is the most popular
phone Apple sells in India because the
one that fits into that pricing strategy
that's new
and what people don't want there is
refurbished phones so Apple has this
obviously we have a sum up my Opik view
of our market and like there's all of
the if you can afford 750 you can afford
a thousand which I've been pretty shaky
on like I understand it it's it's a big
leap but it's funny how Apple also has
to cater to these other huge markets
that they are seeing where they have to
show growth because if all that happens
is the wave of carrier upgrade plans
sweeps over America and everybody gets
an iPhone 8 because it's the one that
you've been paying on installments for
this entire time they will have zero
growth right so they have to find ways
to capture new people which means both
going down market which is not what we
generally you know pay attention to and
it also means they've got to convert a
bunch of Android high-end owners over
which means they have to appeal to like
okay no owners so here's I don't know if
the iPhone 10 appeals like the note
owner who's like what I want is like a
400 horsepower engine and his stylist so
like the like you're getting a 10 that's
the plan I'm probably about 10 Paul is
not I want to hear about this yeah why
not cars was a pretty late last night
trying to make a car analogy I don't
know what about cars
[Laughter]
iPhone 10 is like a Ferrari but I just
need a Honda and just need something
where like reliable and affordable and
like something that like matches like my
actual use use case and I don't it's not
such a precious object in my life that I
need the ultra-luxury one so I do like
to have a really nice phone and I'd like
it to have a long lasting battery life
and be reliable and take a nice picture
since though but it's not the most
important object in my life
see if I'm Apple I may hear this like
this terrifies because what Paul is
saying is the iPhone 8 is a station
wagon right and and Apple has never been
about that they've always been about
creating that that sense of like oh my
god the future has just landed to the
president so that was the entire I mean
that was the feast
of the event yesterday yeah are in the
Steve Jobs theater this is his dream you
literally I've heard multiple Apple
executives saying we hope he's proud of
us right like they were like he's the
iPhone 10 to you the same as the iPhone
the answer to me is like no it just has
an edge head screen well here's what I
would say about it the the iPhone that I
remain the most satisfied with in terms
of like where it took me from where I
was as the iPhone 4 the iPhone 4 every
time you took it out of your pocket it
looked like jewelry it looked like you
were holding this just incredible object
right well and I haven't held the iPhone
10 in my hands yesterday but looking at
the the video that you did looking
everything else it looked like jewelry
and I haven't felt that way about the
iPhone for a long time as a piece of
hardware it is absolutely
I think that's gonna carry it so much
further than the eight being like you
know the cameras lenses yeah I'm gonna
be a lot of people tweeted me tweeted
this to me yesterday when I said is it
does anybody have thoughts about the
eight I've only heard about the X today
and like a flood of people tweeted it's
the iPhone 7s who here thinks it's a
it's the 7s they renamed the eight to
make it some better your god Joey
Joey's got nothing so it's like it's
like a medium feeling that's out there
in the world that I think they have to
contend with I think the vast majority
of people who do not come to podcast
about surround sound formats are
probably not thinking about but actually
this leads me to my next question it's
like really what I want to talk to you
about which is what an emoji are you
know you see you weren't there but you
are you watched it obviously you paid
attention I felt like the vibe towards
Apple and its self-regard yesterday was
distinctly different than ten years ago
or last year or even the year before
that where it was seen as somewhat out
of touch did you get that yeah I mean
they said a couple of things that I
would have personally advised them
against I don't think you can call a
corporate retail space town square I
think that it's it actually like it
offends my sensibilities just because
there's a lot of things that you can't
do in a retail store that you can it
should do in a town square right I also
think there was a lot of talk about
Apple as a company and you know having
like I saw a Steve Jobs introduced the
iPad 2 and it was very like the whole
event was sort of about the
and what it could do for your life not
about Apple and what a incredible
company Apple is although of course
Steve Jobs talked about that too so I do
think it was somewhat backward looking
but I can't fall Apple for that too much
because they were there to inaugurate a
new building yes named after their
founders so you know as somebody who has
loved Apple products for a really long
time like I did cut them a lot of slack
like to a degree that I think some other
journalists would say that I was you
know like sort of going too soft on them
but like you know stuff Apple has made
has done really amazing things in my
life and if so if they want to spend ten
minutes at the top of their you know a
show telling me about you know Steve
Jobs view on technology I'm like I'm
super down like maybe in ways that are
not flattering to me as a journalist but
like I was sort of there for it you know
but then when there when they sort of
come around to like you know an Apple
Store is a community center like I've
been to their flagship store in Union
Square and it's just like lines of
people trying to buy air pods so yeah to
me the feeling I got was there's there's
so much more attention being paid and
actually in weird ways we talked about
this on the show all the time between
what our corporations should do what
they're free to do and what our
government should do and what our
government is free to do that make any
sense sure let's go with it we've all
been drinking you know we talked about
time in a Apple seems to be taking the
position that it actually will be the
greatest force for good in your life
right and it's the way it will do that
is by selling you relatively expensive
things yeah which i think is actually
fine for a company like Apple to say
because their business is selling
expensive things but where they're not I
think making the connection that people
want if they were actually going out
into cities and spending their war
chests of billions of dollars to build a
library like this is a Town Square it's
our gift to you but they're not right
they're like we're gonna capture an
obvious return on investment in this
space that is our retail space right and
I think that distinction is actually
quite troublesome and they haven't quite
thought about the messaging of it
because and I don't mean to say this
about this government although I feel
this very deeply in my heart about our
current government our current
government is not like doing it right
and that is true I think that be true
whether we added
like but our current government isn't
sorry I was listening to another box
media podcast recode decode with Kara
Swisher who had Scott Galloway on I
believe it was this week and he talked
about the idea of you know what if Apple
just use some of those many many
billions that it has in reserves to
create a free online university and to
sort of like put that out in the world
and anyone could just study any subject
that they wanted an Apple subsidize it
right sort of bring you know really like
put your money where your mouth is when
it comes to being like humanitarians at
the intersection of Technology and the
liberal arts so I do know that there is
a lot more than Apple
can do there I think that you know there
there talk about themselves as
humanitarians it does get someone over
odd but they do create creative tools
that a lot of people in the creative
arts do use to make very cool things and
that buys them a certain amount of
leeway to do that kind of talk I think
for me if if they're still toeing the
line of toeing the line if they're still
following the theme of talking more
about Apple as a company in a concept
instead of the things we made in what
precisely it will do for you in six
months or a year that's a problem they
you you just built the most amazing
corporate campus you know ever made you
you you built a thing that is insanely
beautiful and cool that does not have
childcare but go on does not have
childcare it's fact a good point the Tim
Cook likes to work out so as a 10,000
square-foot facility under your choices
reflect yourself I'm gonna have that
minute you can have that that
introduction to the keynote you can like
have the moment playing insanely creepy
music in your atrium that we all you
know sat there for stood there for you
get that like Apple was unashamed about
being Apple yesterday they were they
were not modest unapologetically Apple
apologized right oh that's fine yeah
like you they just opened the Steve Jobs
theater they just like invited people
over to the giant spaceship they built
they you know announced the most
ambitious iPhone they've done in how
many years do you want to say several
work yeah so yeah take the moat take the
moment but if you do it again if you're
still acting that way in a year then
you know you're you're a little fool
yourself right and then they'll
introduce an incremental upgrade and
we'll sit here being talking about house
and you know Apple can't innovate
anymore no I I think it's less than that
I think it's um they're so important
right like they broke through the noise
of our current political discourse they
broke through the noise of whatever
people were angry about on Twitter
yesterday like they're able to do it
with products and I think the big
difference and I think about this a lot
there's a great interview one of the
many great interviews Walt and Kara did
with Steve Jobs of code and on what they
were talking about that but Jobs said to
Walt we're gonna make choices for people
and if they like it they buy it and if
they don't they won't and that's the
best we can do but he never talked about
a larger mission right he he was
entirely focused on here's how I make
choices about what products to make and
here I'm gonna sell them to you for
whatever price I think is fair and
hopefully you like it and I think also
by the way everyone else is a piece of
that's why we loved him
Apple right now keeps talking about
their larger responsibility to the world
because they are the most valuable
corporation in the world and I think
doing that without the corresponding
action is what caused that other
reaction we saw yesterday yeah I'm
actually really curious in your take of
this because we generally disagree on
these sorts of things and I'm very
curious what you think about I don't
know how the federal government would be
creating like these public spaces so I'm
not actually exactly sure I do get that
like what you're talking about with a
store being like a town square that does
it bugs me as well the idea that a
company I to be honest the thing I love
about Apple is that it makes my
decisions for me
right like it's like I've signed up to
be an Apple user so Apple can make all
these decisions for me I'll go along
with them if I have strong opinions
about certain things like pages I'll use
Google Docs or whatever but you know for
the most part I'll just use the Apple
stuff and and it simplifies my life
that's the only person has an opinion
about pages let alone a strong
and then but I don't I don't want them
to make my political decisions for me
right I don't they don't define my
religion my politics my activism you
know and so it's fine for a company to
go out and do that but I don't want them
to sell me that yeah you know and I
think that's actually the heart of this
troublesome Town Square thing where
there's podcast got very deep everybody
take a breath okay where you going
does everyone finish taking their notes
there'll be a quiz at the end no at the
end of it they're a company they have to
sell to everyone and that means they
will file the edges off their harshest
opinions in a way the government kind of
doesn't write the government like takes
all the input they take sure that tax
dollars and like make a bunch of policy
decisions like half of you hate them
right and I that that to me is like the
difference and I I just want it I I
wanted to bring that up in this show in
front of this audience that came here
verse around some jokes whether one
choice apples made for you is he wanted
Atmos I want to bring it up on
the show because we spend so much time
talking about their hardware but so much
of yesterday was also laced through with
their social ambition and our policy
ambition like Apple for example came out
a few weeks ago and for the first time
filed a brief in support of net
neutrality that's great largest most
powerful company in technology being
like here's a policy that I personally
agree with all doesn't agree with but
they're doing it because they're about
to launch video content right they hired
a bunch of Sony executives to make shows
and if some carriers block those shows
apples at a disadvantage so that now
they're making policy decisions that
obviously serve their interests I think
sort of everyone's interests but they're
using that way to do it but they only
did it when it actually began to serve
their interests rather than a larger
interest I think it's important to just
take a half step back from arguing about
notches and whatever and just point out
that they talk a huge game but there is
actually a lot of dissent underneath
that that I think is tied into a moment
you know the the EU find Google there's
a lot of talk about antitrust law coming
after Google Facebook Microsoft Apple
Amazon Amazon mountains everything
actually on this building are you are
you sensing the the sort of panic in the
valley around the tech moment colliding
with hey you guys are a little too
powerful yeah and I think it has his the
the writing is maybe been on the wall
for a few months but I think you you're
just starting to see it crystallized
even within the last few weeks with the
EU and Google there is this sense that
all of a sudden we don't feel the same
way about tech companies that we once
did now obviously kind of the big four
or five Amazon Google Apple it's set
like those I know I left out one but
we're doing it live their beloved
consumer brands and I don't think the
average citizen is mad at them and in
fact they're probably the source of
national pride but at the same time
there are real threats and probably the
number one threat is that they are
eliminating jobs right like you think of
Facebook is one of the biggest companies
in the world and it has 17,000 employees
so I think of how many employees like
Ford or like General Motors had back in
the day so those jobs are going away
there's a sense that they're not coming
back the companies are growing ever
larger so at some point I think there is
a thought that that something has to
give and so I think you're gonna see
tech companies spend a lot more on
lobbying but maybe you'll even see them
making some preemptive moves maybe
they'll spin out one of their businesses
I think they'll do whatever they can to
be the masters of their own destiny yeah
when you think could you cover all the
other companies here in the valley
pretty closely how do they feel about
Apple like and when these moments happen
there's big new piece of hardware is
suddenly like Twitter's like we figured
out Nazis is we have corners on the
screens now or like how do they think it
through well I mean I think the
rank-and-file employees that get very
excited about I was actually like
chatting with some folks in the audience
here before and they work for tech
companies in Silicon Valley and they
were all really excited to watch the
iPhone event yesterday because they want
to know you know what is this device
that I use like 90 times a day going to
look like so I think at the individual
level they are largely fans of the
product you know at the corporate level
they will gripe about the same things
that everybody gripes about with Apple
you know like the partnerships can be
hard you know Apple says no to an awful
lot of things they can be difficult to
work with but you know compare like I'll
just say personally I'm far more worried
about
Facebook's effect on the public sphere
that I'm about Apple right because like
Apple makes the tools and like Facebook
is the stuff that we're actually looking
at that appears to be warping all of our
minds in in frightening ways right so I
think Apple actually will get a pass on
like I think you'll see antitrust come
for Amazon and Facebook and Google long
before you see it come for Apple yeah I
think it's interesting cuz Apple owns
the store like they have in a real way
like far more power I feel like we need
to end this on an uptown you know how
we're gonna do that I think I know we're
gonna take some questions from these
people yeah feel right to you people
Joey can you bring us up buddy go nuts
that is a surprise
it's I think you're like like seven four
well lights Wow there you are beautiful
look at how beautiful they look alright
by the way by the way I'm really
grateful thank you all somebody who came
here from Singapore yeah and he told me
he was actually here to help with
hurricane Harvey relief but then he came
here thank you sir I talked to somebody
who escaped from Mobile World Congress
America which arguably even more
difficult okay I don't know how we have
microphones their microphones right here
they're disconcertingly close to us yeah
can we do this can we move those back
there is that a task we can perform Zach
thank you it's it's not only terrifying
for you to have to come all the way to
us
I think it's terrifying for us for you
to attack the stage rush the stage and
ask us questions please look it's quite
possible that we've already answered all
of your questions because of our
detailed and excellent analysis all
right so if you have a question arrive
there we go all right there we go
terrified it would be a moment where I
was like yeah now we don't talk to you
goodbye no we do want to talk to you
you're great what do y'all think about
the iPhone 8 and a plus pricing
considering the base models are more
expensive than the 7 and 7 plus
inflation also gas is more expensive
actually Lauren was saying this earlier
like they have an average selling price
problem
they also bump the prices the iPads
quietly buy 50 bucks yesterday I think
it comes down to if they show relatively
flat growth but tons of revenue growth
they'll they'll be ok they'll be able to
make that excuse I don't know if adding
a glass back and a bunch of Chi
licensing for wireless charging and cost
so much money but I do think there's a
move to make all the products more
premium it's possible the processor was
like a bunch more money
what's Bionic now it's Bionic but yeah I
will say I'm not super pleased by it but
I mean you know the iPhone 7 is also
around they could have dropped the price
on that a little more maybe I would pay
another 50 bucks for a headphone jack
yeah so a hidden feature of that sort of
an emoji style thing that they've got
going on is um actually that dot matrix
is used as an effective neuroscience to
measure facial expressions and facial
emotions do you think we're gonna enter
into a world where Siri starts
interacting with us sort of in our own
emotional context and how long do you
think it's gonna be before dominoes
starts paying money to make you're
making a lot of assumptions about Syria
I think that'll happen after you're able
to use Siri to set a timer on your Mac
it's probably the dream I'm sure someone
else will do it first all of that also
is scary right I think to cross that
wall where you're not just unlocking it
by looking at it but apples saying to
you now we can read your emotions and
adjust the color temperature of the
display that's their best trick it is by
the way their best trick but there's so
much of just questions around we're
looking at you that they have to answer
with unlocking the
before they can go all the way there and
also Siri is like a history of research
like I think it's called effective
compute computing and and there is a lot
of interesting stuff around if your
devices were more aware of you like when
you're perspiring or if you're getting
mad or if you're happy or you're sad or
something like that that there might be
because obviously there's a lot of
creepy ways you can go with that
but there's also might be some really
interesting ways like we're like hey
maybe you should take a breather or like
you know there are ways that the our
devices could help us out by
understanding our emotions better and
give you those little cues or it could
just be creepy I just don't trust them
to not be ham-fisted you know well it's
not one of the gonna be pops up an Apple
employee he works on a heart rate
monitor
you know they released the watch is the
most popular heart rate monitor in the
world and released a feature with a new
one where it will measure your resting
heart rate and when it's elevated
abnormally you're not working out and
one of the Apple employees was tweeting
yesterday I worked on this feature my
heart rate gets elevated when I'm on a
date and when I'm stressed out and I was
like yeah it also when like Trump tweets
if you just like you know that those two
pieces of information like you should
just shut my computer down like you
should shut it go outside all right all
right so the iPhone 10 is supposed to be
the next decade for what the iPhone
should be do you think there's enough
courage there to really mean that all
right dr. Samsung Evan Samsung is the
the idea that the iPhone 10 has a bunch
of like new fundamental like concepts of
the way a phone should work doesn't ring
true to me in the way that the original
iPhone original and later on a couple
iterations into Android you know webOS
even Windows Phone all had brand-new
ideas of this is the way a phone should
and this is how you're going to interact
with this device and even though there's
like a couple of new ways to swipe
around and do whatever and there's a
bunch of new AR stuff I think that a lot
of that stuff feels more like
experimental and trying it out rather
than like a system systematize thought
process of this is the way that phones
are gonna work from now on
so yes there are there are surely things
in the iPhone 10 that are indicators of
what the next you know 10 years of the
iPhone etre look like but there's not a
grand new big idea there it is
fundamentally iterative and I know that
tech reviewers and tech writers use the
word iterative too often and it kind of
doesn't mean as much as it used to but
they've introduced a few new concepts
but I don't think they've introduced a
brand new foundation so yes
screens are to look like that from now
on that's just the default now phones
are gonna have cool a our stuff from now
on that's just the default now but that
doesn't mean that they it's changed
everything
so my answer has only slightly different
and that the first iPhone was this
absolute force of convergence so at 8:00
your mp3 player at 8:00 your camera ate
a taxi dispatch services like it just
ate everything in its wake
right it was able to do that in a way
that literally no other product before
it was able to do you you can't do that
again so like you're kind of like
limited in scope but I do think that
front camera stack that is the beginning
of something really really important
right it's I think we put this in the
hands on yesterday the front camera on
the 10 is way more important than the
back camera and that I think gushers in
another set of uses for the phone that
we kind of don't understand they could
lead it to once again disrupting taxi
services I also knows you're pissed off
something interesting about the portrait
lighting yeah it was something I was
trying to like come up with like what's
another photographic technique that
could be added as a technology and I
didn't think of lighting but Apple
thought of lighting and did a really
cool technology and like if you combine
that with like that front sensor like if
you think of where the phone is
eventually going it's something that you
hold out and it has a perfect 3d
photorealistic map
everything around you and then you can
do things based on all of that
information that's now in your phone you
could make a video game out of it and
explore it or you could get contextual
information in AR or you could photoshop
it like crazy and relight it and change
everybody's faces and yeah I don't think
we know but if it comes from anywhere I
think it's that Joey what's up everybody
give a hand for Joey he had to deal with
me I made a lot of angry faces at Joey
because he was literally the only person
I could see all right so you guys have
touched on this this whole show and a
few episodes back but apples obviously
in a kind of state of flux right now
you know we saw Apple as a company where
they sold the best product at the
highest price point for a long time now
they're about to sell five different
models of the iPhone 8 if you count the
pluses what does this mean for the next
5 10 years of Apple are they going to
sell a 200 $100 iPhone what is their
future in terms of growth you know are
we looking at the best phone forever are
we really trying to get the entire world
to buy an iPhone well if I knew that I
would work in a circle I will say when I
was writing my car piece I got a feeling
it wasn't I wasn't mad at Apple I was
kind of celebrating them like I like you
have you made up good enough phone and
like you know I would love that
like these specs someone tweeted this at
me like put these new specs in like the
se like like Apple is definitely in a
position where they have the good enough
like the camera good enough screen good
enough software good enough you know
they can make smaller cheaper phones
that are good enough and that's like
really exciting that you know this
technology can keep on going down the
price I have no idea where to go in the
high-end at all yeah I think to me that
that future of Apple is one a lot of
people talk about and care about the one
that is always most important it's one
case he was discussing earlier is what
Apple has historically done is
democratize tools of creation and so if
you can get all of that in a cheaper
phone now you've got kids who are like
I'm gonna shoot a 4k video and like now
we have vloggers so I guess that was a
mistake
oh there's like ten vloggers named no
it's like we have Instagram influencers
can we agree that that is a mistake and
no guess not
okay you know I mean like but that's
like all of that jokes aside all of that
is super exciting right like they have
created an entirely new class of
creators that have in turn created an
entirely new world of like business and
commerce and culture that's like Apple's
move like I think if they continue to
live there the business stuff will
actually sort itself out but the
question of should they just have a four
product matrix I think it's like long
gone like they're too big for that when
they were doing that project there were
90 days away from bankruptcy and like
ten people bought Macs and I was three
of them I also think that the the
question of will the iPhone become the
best-selling phone on the planet is kind
of irrelevant I don't think Apple even
cares that they they want to make the
tools for creators and they want to make
a ton of money and they don't have to
you know beat Android to do that yeah we
can party to yeah yeah I think they'll
make an iPhone se as the iPhone 10 and
also did seven eight-nine security but
it's gonna be where those things were
like every few years like oh yeah we
forgot we got to make a small one again
and then they'll slightly update it yeah
I think they were surprised I know you
bought the se so they're gonna keep all
updated one more time like even they are
like yeah we make it people want like
that size but the whole goal of the ten
is to make it smaller so they can
probably make a bigger screen in a
smaller size and they might just do that
yeah so when you were seeing the iPhone
iPhone 10 iPhone X myself the iPhone 10
yesterday did you see anybody you see
touch rather face ID fail in particular
I'm concerned because I wear glasses all
the time and I have snapchat filters
just straight up not work on me and also
I'm of East Asian descent and I often
have cameras tell me did you blink
so is this like did you see this at all
failed for dinner you were saying
yeah I was wearing glasses but it was
also like I didn't know what I was doing
and people I was getting jostled and
whatever you you were holding it we're
gonna have to review the holding it
wrong yeah don't read the phone we don't
know yeah maybe but like literally
Federer is first demo failed yep so like
you know like we're gonna we're gonna
all learn how to use in the same way
that we will review and we'll find out
yeah alright we'll do one more so back
to the Monopoly stuff why do you think
that texts getting so much more
attention than like Lockheed or like the
AG tech companies like the
pharmaceutical companies that are much
bigger and much more pervasive just more
behind the scenes that's really a good
question I seen a lot of people talk
about it recently I think part of it's
related to what Casey was talking about
there was companies still employ a lot
of people and they also priced their
products right so like the classic
antitrust model which is like the
Chicago School and I went to like it's
really great we should stick with it but
they are concept of monopoly and ya know
but it's a great school and whatever so
the classic model is about price right
so the way that you measure the effect
of monopoly is like if consumer prices
go up because now you know there's not
pricing pressure in the market and no
it's argument is about that right so you
can measure Lockheed's price you can do
all this stuff with their prices all of
these other companies give their stuff
away for free generally or they provide
an inordinately so like prime there's no
competitor at a prime to measure its
price against I think what is happening
is for at least in my opinion the
longest time the government regulators
lawyers they were not aware of how tech
companies works but what happened was a
lot of nerds went to college and became
lawyers so they're like really aware of
how these companies work and they're
looking at it and they're saying this a
model that I was trained in we can never
ever make it apply to Google like we
just can't so we need some other model
that explains Google's market power and
that is actually like to me that that's
the engine that's turning all of the
interest and the interest is turning
into we should do something
no one knows what to do but I think the
amount of attention that you're seeing
is a lot of very smart people who are
intimately familiar with tech products
as familiar as anybody in this room are
saying hey wait a minute
right now our model does not allow the
government to say anything about what
they're doing and that is probably not
the right place to go and also Google is
a search company does not have a
competitor for you for us to even think
about and if we're in the absence of a
competitor the government should
probably think about that in some way
now do I think they should regulate
Google like no right like probably not
like Google makes a lot of products they
Google feels like it has a lot of
competitors and they give their
away for free so like I was trained in
that school I don't think that that's
the first place we should go I think the
first place we should go but that's
another show
next time we done so now we have to do
the wrap-up you are like trying to say
something I kept interrupting you I I
was just gonna say that the Chicago
schools interpretation of how monopolies
work based on price is fundamentally
flawed and we should go back to I think
monopolies are myth anyway the old trust
Buster detour bonus here everybody watch
out Carnegie we're coming for you I
think you want to threaten Andrew
Carnegie some more I hate you by the way
John rockefeller founded the University
of Chicago you can understand why his
school raising hands you didn't know
there's this whole like kerfuffle about
like let's do all the tech companies
like a shuffle shuffle yeah I'm talking
Fox situation yes and I want to ask this
question here's every night down though
make some noise you're gonna buy an
iPhone 10 makes a noise you're gonna buy
an iPhone 8 ok 8 plus thank you dead
silent for April
I'm so right about this I think that's
like the realness anyway okay okay so
called well these for these nerds anyway
here's what I'll say I love all of you
so much for coming
it is absolutely wild to us this
conversation I think for all of us was
like when I was growing up there was no
one to have this conversation with and
Racine Wisconsin and now like I get to
do with people that I love very much and
all of you came to see us and that just
like makes my heart explode with joy so
thank you so much for coming I have to
plug some other podcasts there's only
one Verge podcast at this moment this
one the best one no other podcast exists
in the world but Casey is gonna start a
show soon he keeps promising me they do
a lot of exciting things coming later
this year
you know usually on the show like ddurup
Paul will tell me an idea they have I'm
like you have to write that story now
now you've told the people here starting
a podcast so we're raising the bar for
the live show but I like Casey's md1 our
two great reporters Ashley Carmen and
Kaitlin Tiffany have a new show that's
coming soon can't give you a date yet
called why'd you push that button which
I'm really excited about so look around
for that Lauren who is on stage with us
has an amazing show called too
embarrassed to ask which all of you
should listen to Lauren is our guest
this week yeah dan everyone Sudan was
also the Apple event so they're gonna be
it's presumably talking about apples so
you should listen to Lauren show which
is wonderful she is with Kara Swisher
Kara Swisher herself does a recode
decode and Peter Kaufman is a recode
media which if you are a media nerd
which I suspect many of you are you
should absolutely Sentul
Oh Ezra Klein has the Ezra Klein
interview show you don't tell their
Clinton who's he that's a guy no it's
fine there's also there's all kinds of
the great box podcasts including an SMD
- Ezra the fact that I'm starting a few
I guarantee he does not know about and
does not care about my favorite thing
also we're friends so like whatever the
that's Ezra do what you are yeah oh god
you know I will tell you this story now
wait I'm at in the podcast okay story
and then we can week it you can only get
on your snapchat or whatever is that
what kids do now okay so that's our show
but we're gonna keep the mic somewhere
done because I'll tell this story but
that's our show thank you all so much
for coming
rock and roll
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