Gadgetory

hey welcome to the verge mobile show dan seifert and this is episode 58 for the week of August twelfth today is actually August thirteenth if you are watching us live and if you're going to listen to the recording it could be any day after this or still today so uh that was a great intro I'm dancing hey I'm Vlad's how i'm chris sigler just to clarify I want to make sure that our listeners understand the time the time-space continuum you are positing that if they are listening to this show it is some point either now or in the future that is correct that is that is my theory that that is an interesting theory that could ultimately be debunked should you want musk create a time machine after he finishes the Hyperloop which is entirely possible wouldn't put anything past the mad at this point you know what i would i would expect that Elon Musk is going to come up with an idea for an actual functional time machine and be so excited about it and like just forget all about the Hyperloop and then just go build this time machine or maybe you'll get the Hyperloop going so fast that it like it just like disappears into another dimension or into the future or past which is basically what happened in time cop we're like you know they had that you don't remember they had like those those like those like pods on Rails and like they had to get him going really fast and then they would disappear and go into the past that's probably what's gonna happen was meant whoa oh right that feel turns they don't getting speed up this match to submit words rightful right yeah I remember there was like stains on the on the walls from where like people crashed into them but they never happened to Jean Claude Van Damme because this work sees and this is where i admit that i don't think i've ever seen Timecop what whitewater stop we are positing the verge mobile too dancey freaking go watch time cop that's it's the game of the arcade right where you step on the pedal and then your gun works and you step off and and you reload and stuff that's time cop to me what yeah was your cave game right no need for a whole other version of the 1990 oh my god time decision time cop is the second best movie of the 90s after demolition man that's a no statement to me yeah that's a big prazer it's good movie so I'm saying so it's also mentioned if somebody is actually listening to this podcast for over for the week of August 12 on August twelfth please let us know because we'll be very impressed yeah yeah that's true although I don't know if they can send an email into the future to reach us well if they send it from the past it will get here eventually yes you're right God my head's going to explode so unfortunately deters not here with us he isn't tied up an email you send off is going that's true that's true unless unless you use undo send and stop it from happening right like say somebody say you click you sent the email and somebody from the future goes back in time to that five second window and clicks undo send and cancels it that you would probably there's probably a good chance that you would end or destroy this version of the universe so ensure our conclusion is never hit em do send just to save the universe right and also never miss it never hit undo send in the past cuz you'll endanger the future oh man this is so far over my head uh so yeah unfortunately deters not with us today because he had more important things to do so there you go there's your announcement about eater but let's talk about news I guess so we have a date for the new iphone yes not well not if not officially but it's kind of the consensus rumor in September 10 yeah this has been rumored originally reported by All Things D last week Bloomberg actually corroborated that date again today so now there's two sources saying that August 10th we will see a new iphone and a new cheap iphone stuff that has been literally been rumoured all year yeah they're finally doing it you know it for years and years like i had just finally gotten behind the Apple model of just recycling old iPhones as the cheap iPhone and now they're going to throw it all into the blender and come out with an actual legitimate cheap iPhone that's a completely separate model yeah and I know we've discussed this before when Pryor shows but you know it for my theory at least is that it just it like it just costs too much to produce the iphone 5 still like if if Apple did continue to do the thing of moving the prior generation down a notch every year that would mean that there once this next iPhone comes out the iphone 4s would be the free on contract model and the iphone 5 would be a hundred bucks on contract and i have a feeling that the 4s and the five are just still too costly to produce right because there's still glass front and back whereas this cheap model is going to be a plastic shell right right and then of course in in you know markets where the the evan our producer just reminded me that i confuse time crop with time crisis time crisis is the arcade game you put your foot on the pedal and shoot the gun and then lay off and okay that's cleared up now time crisis yes I've never seen Timecop but so this new lower-cost iPhone would theoretically be very popular in markets that aren't as reliant on the contract model so markets where maybe people by their phone outright aren't going to spend six or hundred dollars on a new iphone so maybe this and not naturally not you not not just non US markets but also could be a very appealing option for the prepaid market in the US as well right and not just those guys I mean from what I've heard about this new iphone I'm actually into it I like the idea um a couple of things have popped up one is that it might not have Siri which to me is like owners because I never use it so then I don't have this redundant feature hanging around on my phone and the second is the plastic shell the plastic construction seems to be more rounded more like the iphone 3gs designs while also it appears to be a heck of a lot like Nokia's mid-range Lumia so things I had a 6-10 510 etc I'm gonna under the challenge in there glad because if it's actually like the 3gs I don't want I don't want anything near like like I would want to run so far away from that after using like the iphones for economic sale 5 and the they're just so much better built so much nicer build quality well yeah but i'm talking about the shape so you can have a shape with poor construction you have a shape with good construction and to me the curve is always better than the linear angular you know designs of the iphone 4 and 5 series I suppose I feel like the the iphone like that that's much more apparent on a larger device like say the HTC One which has very kind of sharp edges and and anecdotal story I actually was using my one the other day and I was holding it with my pinky like holding the phone like you know antico way like this and like after 15 minutes I had a good good mark in my pinky from what the phone was sitting because of its sharp edges but on a smaller what took it to my point the smaller devices like the iphone 5 and iphone for us I think those sharp edges are less prominent when you're using it just because the device itself is smaller but also also a whole bunch of people particularly with the black iphone 5 i've complained about chamfered edges you know picking up little scratches and nicks and things like that like nobody seems to be able to maintain the iphone 5 spotless which is annoying for people and you know it's kind of like if i'm buying a phone sometime soon i'm thinking of the iphone like honestly if idea how i already have the iphone 5 and you gave me a cheaper option with plastic shell and no sirree and no loss in terms of app compatibility battery life etc etc camera performance it will be a no-brainer to me out i would go for the cheap of plastic one i can I should be considered a better device yeah durability is a consideration you know you look at the at the iphone 5 and I had mine for a while and I still refused like set it down on a hard surface because I know that is going to get scratched or ding and that that probably wouldn't even enter my mind if I had a plastic phone right what wasn't it you Chris who was saying that you lay down a silk cloth before you put down your iPhone I don't think I said that but it sounds like something I would say and it seems like something I'd do so bring silk pillows everywhere he goes there like miniature silk pillows that he puts his iphone down on you we have we have this amazing stock photo in our in our internal image library that gets used at least once a week and then the caption which like our readers I don't think that can see maybe if they hover over the image i'm not sure but the caption on this stock image is iphone 5 luxuriating it's an iphone sitting on like this bluer this dark blue or cloth it's amazing it's yeah it's like fake it's like a fake fur coat its knit me why I took that right I think I yeah it's a mansion it's great i'm showing eli is responsible for of those pictures we have the iphone 5 on a black leather couch looking kind of like a pause time repose we have a Galaxy Nexus I believe we'd like some fur all around it and it is 10 of those it is that image called galaxy s4 luxuriating I hope it is the key is the use of the phrase luxuriating the word luxuriating of course so you know so now we have a pretty safe bet as to when we're going to hear about this new iphone but you know we've been talking about the this cheaper iphone i obviously there's been rumors all year long about what the more expensive or flagship iPhone is going to have we did a big roundup of them this week so definitely check it out if you haven't already pretty much all of the rumors of what we might see what we might not see but it seems like the strongest rumors seem to be circulating around this fingerprint sensor which would be kind of a weird thing at least in my opinion be a weird thing unless Apple implements in a totally different way than what we seen in the past the gold iPhone is definitely like somebody some someone in Asia is trolling yeah there's no chance like it's amazing because like a lot of people are seriously betting on there being like this this pre blinged out it's not just a gold iPhone it has like a crystal home button what is the story with it bigoted there's some rumor circulating this week about like a blinged-out gold stock gold I feel like I feel like I've tuned this one out Chris yeah well it's been going around a week and I'm like come on is there anything remotely close to this in Apple's history that would make you believe that they would ship a stock blinged out the old iphone 5s mostly to be honest I'm sure that the Vladimir Putin already has one of those I'm sure maybe cause I Sun suggested it to Tim Cook he was like you know what I gotta meet with Tim Cook and I'm gonna be like this is what you guys need the people want gold iPhones they want more swarovski crystals on their iPhones man like get on it this is how you're gonna turn Apple around altering yes to cook was a good idea yeah Tim Cook is like that sounds like a good idea Carl Icahn was like things are looking up boom 2 million in uh in paper money or not paper money fake money I don't know what the term is not real money market value yes up 20 billion um so I mean that's a knicks iphone well obviously i mean i'm sure that the rumor train and the leak train will be hitting full steam in the coming weeks as we get really close to that September 10th day you know what it's not going to have then the new iphone what's up it's not going to have a separate camera attachment with freaking sony rx100 sensor and lens in it well i didn't have that to our topic was today how did i forget about this let's just talk about that know that things in santee so for the uninformed this there's been a rumor this year that sony is going to release this device that attaches to the back of a smartphone and communicates with the smartphone via NFC and Wi-Fi and provides a large size camera sensor and a whole lens it's literally a whole camera without a display but you use your smartphone to control it and we foot saw our first pictures of it this pest was it yesterday I believe and the thing looks looks crazy uh and it's something that I need to own ya know yo gonna hey Doc because you have fun rx100 m2 oh right right so you already have the camera you don't need to own the attachment that includes to say open it but dudes dudes just hear me out on this okay that likely key one of the key differentiators of a real camera versus a smartphone with a good camera on it is access to good physical controls and you you lose from the pictures we've seen you lose ninety percent of those right like there's a ring out of lens but you gain like all these controls that you don't normally have a smartphone like zoom controls and other buttons right yeah by carrying two to like was what do you get this is like this is like a pad phone except for cameras is what it is like you have to carry two pieces you have to carry this attachment that is as big as an rx100 and then you have to carry a phone it'll like what do you gain two things I need to raise here first of all are we still live because a producer doesn't seem to be in hang out anymore it says we're out here so okay fine i'm just going to believe the magic is still going on but the second thing the really big distinction between the PadFone and this sony attachment is that the sony attachment will be interchangeable among devices the thing that made the platform be such a failure device for a sous and why never took off is because every single padfone had a tablet that you ducked smartphone in and it was just that one smartphone and at one tablet and if you want to upgrade the next year you have to buy yet another tablet with yet another smartphone which kind of defeats the point of docking the smartphone in the tablet accessory where is the thing with this Sony attachment i think i think is called like a a lens that's supposed to be like his name is that you can just light it on with any phone you using so you know you can be using the HTC One one day the galaxy s4 the other day I mean s4 has decent camera but the overall point is you can just cycle through a whole bunch of phones and probably day two days in the best example either it's year to year and if this camera attachment is good and high quality you can keep you know for two three four years maybe even if I think because things in camera technology at least for the this kind of compact size w this quickly as smartphones and Chris this is facepalming right now I'm sorry I think I should give away I I didn't I didn't realize you could see me i thought that i had the now i'm just yeah I'm flabbergasted by by by this entire conversation you know Chris is such a hypocrite because you know this thing is going to get announced in like it's expected to be announced in September and it's probably going to hit shelves in like november or december and it's going to cost 450 or 500 dollars and chris is gonna buy one of course I'm not because i have an RX 100 m2 and i'll have an iphone 5s like this and furthermore more importantly uh would you guys okay let me put you guys on the spot what if you have this attachment which it sounds like both of you are very interested in buying it would you keep it on your phone full time no that's the beauty of it what that is not the beauty of it because in your bags are carrying an attachment that is as big as a camera and a phone but i don't have but I said but Chris this is where I'm at now I still carry around my phone and then in my bag is still my camera and the problem with my camera that I own right now is that all the pictures on it are trapped on it until I get them onto my computer and then I share them or whatever you just need to use real camera bro there's your processing on a second you're approaching this from two important presumptions which then and I are not making so the first is that point and shoot cameras which are you know the most natural alternative to this attachment you say they have physical controls I disagree like I I think in general their user interfaces I mean though they're all kind of moving to big touchscreen displays anyway but the user interfaces of sucked and as Dan says sharing your pictures as sucked and I mean last year at photokina we did a report specifically on there saying if you know makers of point shoot camera is want to compete with smartphones whoo-hoo eating their lunch they need to make their software more like smartphones and Sony is just kind of you know cutting out the middleman and say we'll just check the camera hardware on to the smartphone itself and boom it is exactly like a smartphone so that's the first thing I the other thing is again Chris you're presuming that you're coming from a smartphone with a camera and then all sudden now you have two devices where is the perspective than and I'm taking is you're coming from having upon a shoot camera and a phone with the phone having and you know a deficient camera which most kind of have an NIU you know combining the best parts of both and and kind of cutting down with physical sizes what I mean this isn't exactly the same size as a point shoot and not only that as you upgrade your phone you still have great camera but you have you doing shoot we're having take that one off the table because that makes us okay I mean that's fair Esther but also think that the point of them raise the down the point is very likely true as well you know Sony announcing something in September and then we'll probably get it sometime around the new year whatever any we wait to expense it etc etc which well I look forward to the day that you gentlemen have a great photo opportunity at 8pm and you pull out your Xperia and it's got a five percent battery life and you're like oh man and then you use sitting you assemble your camera you pull your accessory out of the out of its custom case and then you attach it that takes a few minutes and then you're down to like three percent at this point like oh man am I going to get the shot the allotted / camera app and like you know that maybe takes 20 seconds or whatever its android and it's sunny and then and then you got to take the picture and then boom it power roots down and then I whip out my arts 100 and you know I know at the end both of us are just gonna have this picture stored on our devices and what I've got to have it on the Internet so ultimately the guy with a freaking lumia 1020 beats all of us but but you know what I know what would make this device a success if it has like a shotgun action sound when you put it onto the phone look so it has like a really satisfying click like I'm ready to take photos like it your phone is literally cocked I would buy it just for that yeah see cassie ryan me make a freaking amazing team I'm sure of it well I look forward to you two gentlemen supporting Sony financially in the coming quarter it's very exciting news your sony and for you frankly yeah i mean if if I could you know make some design decisions is it Sony man that would be so beautiful like the first thing I would do is I would take the social button of the ps4 controller because i still find out blasphemous okay it's a lot of sorry first first course of action it's a bit of a well you know maybe we should get you and I sit down with with cars and you guys can ya know hammer out and hit when you can ignore me really politely yes he can you can notice head and be like I see what you saying that you create a great idea yeah all right ah let's move on you guys want to talk about blackberry I always want to talk about blackberry I live to talk about blackberry yeah so BlackBerry's not having a good week when they don know I mean they're not really having a good year but to put it bluntly I news came out uh they announced actually officially yesterday that the that the company has formed a special committee to consider a possible sale which has been kind of rumored for a long time I think we've heard this quite a bit of for that blackberry has hired various financial advisors and things like that to explore sales of its assets and sales of its business but now it seems to be actually formalized in a more official manner at least ma just like to point out how amazing corporate this is to set up a special committee to look into the possibility of set of selling of somebody else I mean the first part of this is it's not so much looking into the possibility is actually looking for somebody who gives a damn in case you want to buy a company yeah actually bloomberg reported today that I guess say they were corroborating earlier reports about potential than looking for a sale and then nobody's really been interested for the past year which is right and the second thing I was going to say is that this reminds me of the way kind of the UK government operates over here it's like they set up a committee the committee says upon inquiry the inquiry posed to the committee the committee that makes a determination and recommendation and then a minister you know kind of glasses over all this you know thousand pages paperwork and says I whenever I just do the most popular thing so I could anticipate black where you gonna do similar thing I mean it won't I mean it's all about either finding a buyer or you know their value just continues to drop until someone's just like okay until Carl Icahn comes in is like yeah okay I'll buy him which is gonna be talking car why can't trash all day today are we probably I'm looking forward to that the Carl Icahn tweet that says oh man just got a call with tourists and Hines and the stock is ready to pop it that's gonna happen next I'm sure I look I don't know I wish I could say a single positive thing about BlackBerry's outlook but I got nothing these guys I mean it yeah I think you know everybody knew that it was well everybody outside black brand new that blackberry 10 was a long shot to begin with they could help them that the z10 got out to a really rocky start we had some pretty soft reviews ours included the hardware sucks suck it's just very very plain and it's just not competitive I mean I would have been it would've been awesome hardware in 2011 but this is 2013 and right uh it's it's a different area that you're playing with them right and it's not competitive and of course the q10 is another story and it appeals to the the traditional blackberry nerd but you know it it's an open question how large that demographic still is these days and how many of just kind of given up on that form factor and moved on to to full touch and a point that i made my review and i think is very much true is that you know this isn't 2008 soft keyboards both apples and and really more so androids third-party soft keyboards have gotten so good at this point that the argument for a physical portrait keyboard isn't as strong as it was even two or three years ago wrexham yeah and and windows phone as well yes 2007 post but when is fun yeah it's got a great keyboard I remember there was a time where if I what if I had to review a phone and it wasn't an iphone and and I just like kind of cringed anytime I had to use the keyboard like any virtual keyboard and and just nowadays is just not a non-issue yeah so absolutely uh other blackberry news apparently um the company was offered a solution to switch to android last year which was a firmly rejected as we now know but the entire details of this proposal were released yesterday and we had a report go up today that's really kind of interesting about what could have been for blackberry if it had taken a different course instead of pursuing blackberry 10 and instead maybe pursuit adopting Android or focusing on its enterprise business solely instead of trying to recapture the consumer market right and you can kind of see how I mean people are always hating on OEM taking Android skins to the extreme obviously that's not a new trope but you can and you can imagine how one of androids bigger weaknesses is is the enterprise and you're seeing solutions like Samsung Knox come out to try and address that but you can imagine how like if if blackberry had paired its name and its expertise and enterprise security with Android that could have ended up being a very powerful solution and maybe it's something they could have won on I don't know maybe the alternative is that they'd end up having the same fate as every Android OEM that isn't samsung but you know which is isn't easy I mean let's put it this way the this proposal which which came out and was was presented to BlackBerry's board in 2012 by a group of Silicon Valley investors to uh to invest in the company and make all these changes there's absolutely no guarantee that it would assault BlackBerry's problems it's just you know it's a vision of a very different direction for the company to take that was presented by people who kind of know what they're talking about so you know hindsight is obviously 2020 but what they're doing right now obviously isn't working yeah Amanda also those upon on Heinz side ah tourists in hindsight 20 20 you know we'll save that for a blackbird victory one day yes but you know there is one thing that we can probably say if you took a look at for example my not microsoft nokia microsoft's unofficial subsidiary when nokia had the N 9 and then follow it up with Lumia 800 they basically kept the same phone design because they spend a whole bunch of time designing one phone it was the n9 but then they switch software to Windows Phone and just kept the design so if blackberry has switched to android the most likely handset that would have been running android would have been the z10 again and that just isn't good enough like it wouldn't have competed on the android front the way isn't competed with microsoft's list so i don't think blackberry would be well any notable way better off it if I could if I could say one thing about the z10 is that the size is really nice it's a smaller size phone that came out before like the HTC mini or the galaxy s4 mini uh and if it was running Android I think a lot of people might have been attracted to it just because it was you know a fast phone that had a high res screen in a size that you could use with one hand comfortably by pretty much anyone uh anything but the fact that puts me of the most is actually it's better life which is kind of stunk yeah but we don't know I mean androids not exactly known for being an especially efficient operating system either but we don't know how much of the battery life stinking is because blackberry 10 or because of the the actual hardware yeah but you know to to kind of argue against to myself in the first instance it might have not have made much of a difference but when we come to have this conversation now about others potentially buying up the company and what BlackBerry's featured looks like you know this this company doesn't really have a roadmap like there's nothing compelling or interesting or unique coming down the pipe apart from perhaps again that porsche design which is going to say nobody's life what about the z30 guys yeah so we've seen quite a few leaks for the c30 this past week we saw a video of the z30 being this 5-inch blackberry 10 device with 720p display with 720p display well you know what else has a 5-inch display 720p display is the motorola droid whatever whatever the big 1i the joint ultra and the max actually Thank You 5-inch 720p this is true Chris this is very true and and I still think after all this time the 1080p is a joke in yo town the one exception might be you know there are rumors going around this week that the galaxy s3 is gonna have what a five point six five inch screen note and line gay excuse me yes no three and and at those sizes 1080p whatever it's fine but but at five inch i don't think the 1080p is necessary and Chris what I'm saying a big man but I'm fighting that I'm gonna buy a xiii look this is what my phone has over 400 ppi right now I will not settle for less than 500 on my next device that's a lot of ppi bro it's just more p guys better can never get enough ppi right bro I'm loving this BPI program like I can just see this happening in the New York streets just anybody talking trash and you can just whip out your ppi number and bi okay now yeah but we're like you know we're all online at the at the boutique coffee shop yeah and we're arguing over ppi's it's like in the 80s in Brooklyn there would actually be like a battle rap right there'd be like a winner but now you just pull out your phone and say I got 408 ppi and then Dan's like boom I got 542 ppi and then you take a sip your espresso and you move on this is different scene question here's a question why 720p is nhp whatever resolution why would you need a 5-inch blackberry well this one you really need the emoticons in your bbms to be that massive and that visible cuz you're going to use it play games you're not going to use it for you know all the other stuff but that's that's the claim right is that the z30 is gaming centric which is hilarious for a blackberry to begin with but but that's also it's also hilarious for a dual-core device you know right and and what what cracks me up about this is when blackberry was marketing this e10 a big part of its marketing campaign was the fact that you could use it one-handed and you could do all of those blackberry gestures with just your thumb and you know it was really quick and easy and convenient there's no way that you can use the 5 inch device one-handed as easily so do you guys think that this is AT&T trolling blackberry they're like you know what it'd be funny let's go let's make let's make blackberry make a 5 inch dual core phone unless let's throw him a million bucks or whatever that though they'll make this ridiculous blackberry will sell it for a week and a half we'll pull an HTC first discontinued it just just mess with them a little bit so it's like it's like a high school bully yeah it's like it's like that yeah it's the corporate equivalent of a of ATT stuffing blackberry into a lot what's happening and I think is just a sad like we laugh about at at a time but then when you go home and you think about it so it's just sad a single tear rolls down your cheek poor babe the nice Canadian kid who's always trying so hard so damn hard but he's always about three years behind everybody else and I was getting abused from you know a company with a CEO with a you know a supervillain mustache seriously like somebody needs to teach Larry Ellison how to connect this like does he not know how did like does he realize that nobody shaves this part like wisp along with the man also is he's definitely a multiple facelift something I'm convinced Oh without it without a doubt his skin is way too shiny and it's just like taught oh yeah I taking of which speaking of which I'm just gonna completely derail us as if it weren't they were already know if we're fully off the rails so in terms of shiny skin your American dudes have shiny bread which I do not understand do not trust shiny worries me shiny bread yes with burgers and hot dogs oh well there's a literary oisin on it well then oh that's because it's either moist or greasy and there's nothing wrong with greasy bread no no no it's almost plasticky does it does a point like I know you can like egg glaze bread and do that kind of stuff like a brioche or whatever but no this is just the way this tool is red delicious booty bread well I don't I don't have a good answer for you but what I can tell you is that America sets trends and if we decide that the world is going to eat should I need bread then damnit Vlad Europe is going to be eating shiny bread in six months to a year like that is not a joke because you guys invented shiny apples and we have them here as well chut will shiny apples that's usually just like a wax coating on the Apple right I think I don't know man it I mean the thing is when the Apple weighs like a pound it looks amazingly spherical you're like yeah that doesn't really seem entirely natural I mean when I will personally when I'm at the grocery store because I shop for a lot of apples I consider myself a bit of an apple connoisseur I'm currently on an ambrosia kick but I'm sure that as apple season picks up we'll be moving back to the honeycrisp I look for a good and of it I look for a good spherical Apple III don't necessarily look for glossy or matte apples but I do like a nice spherical Apple because that tells you there's a lot of flash on the Apple because it's very cool but it could be misshapen is to be really fleshy that's true that's true a lot of things in life lab on which point of colors man that you can never tell just by the outside how much of a car you're gonna get on the inside because of the stone so like oh yeah avocados sometimes have freakishly large stones a interesting fact about that vm the British unit of weight measurement the stone is based on one avocado stone no I oh my god I guess I I just want to say that I was dropped by the google hangout for maybe 15 to 20 or 30 seconds and I just came back in and you guys are still talking about produce for you you were keeping it smooth yeah I mean blight and I dan I like I I wasn't ready to announce it yet but maybe now's the time Vlad and I are starting a produce podcast that is what calling to put you on the spot Vlad I don't think we've come up with a name yet have we yes cause of la de kado show the logic Otto yeah it's gonna be me and everybody just kind of not in the head saying yes that is really why's this is an amazing we can have real carrot facts on as a guest love it I love it anyway seriously mobile technology instead of mobile food yeah we were actually a lot of like phone stuff to talk about still so LG finally I'm gonna actually use finally here just because they like unofficially did like four times in a row but they finally announced the g 20 last week and it is literally the it's like the bizarro galaxy s4 that's just the best way I can put it it's a good way of putting it yeah the biggest distinction from the galaxy s4 is that LG has done the buttons completely new software rather than galaxy s4 having the physical home button and stuff by then and it moved the power button and volume keys to the back of the phone party in the back it's revolutionary when LG was announcing this thing they you know mentioned numerous times you know design innovation and you know ergonomics and all this stuff and it's like I I want to give them credit for designing something different with a mobile phone but then I want to like take away that credit because of the stupid design that they made well you know I I was on the verge cast last Thursday talking about the g2 and I'll echo something I said over there with today I feel like whenever LG this true Samsung too but but LG whenever they produce really any product but particularly a phone I get the sense that they have like a bazillion like super talented engineers that are being run by like horse ebooks basically like there's a designer who is like the human equivalent of horse ebooks oh it's just like coming up with these insane specs and engineers are just nodding their heads and like really faithfully executing those facts what's it like the thing is like LG is usual one of the first on the market with like these high-end high-end specs right like it was yeah if I remember correctly LG was the first one in the market with a dual core processor phone is the first one in the market with a 720p display in a phone now it's going to be the first one in the market really with a Snapdragon 800 but I couldn't care less about this phone like I've virtually no desire to want to go out and buy this phone ya know that LG is not skating to where the puck is motorola is at the forefront of this post's pack universe that we're living well this android based postback universe that we're living in LG is a mile behind and i think i mean like they're not going to be a leader in this business as long as they're they're playing this game of like doing what Samsung did six months later and with the buttons in the back like it's yeah and and just to point out the plastic show of the g2 is exactly as shiny and glossy as the food we've been discussing and as a galaxy s4 Andy discussing to when you pick when you pick up the the g2 like the first thing I noticed is just how plasticky and glossy it feels and that's exactly what i noticed when i pick up a galaxy s4 um I mean the I think the biggest thing with this event and with this launch was I was thinking about topics for today show today and I was like the g2 did that happens as recently as this past week did that happen between the last podcast and this one because like you say that they've leaked they've pre announced they've released information they don't teasers amazingly obscure abstract teasers that you don't really understand what they have to do with the phone and any functionality that you might desire out of a phone so they done all of that noise and then the event happens and you don't feel any more enlightened than before the event and it's just like the phone is now just kind of fading into the background well exactly because we don't know when it's going to be released and or when it's going to be available to buy and how much it's going to cost like those are the two things that LG could have held on to to announce at this event right after pretty much confirming everything else about the phone and then all these leaks that happened he could have held onto price and availability and it didn't even give us that yeah but again ten to two shows credit 20 G's credit they are using an IPS display in this phone which I think that many AMOLED haters nilay hint hint will appreciate but I mean I mean it doesn't HTC use an IPS display here's that major Tecna better display a bet yeah I mean it we have good alternatives to AMOLED if you really hate AMOLED I mean I guess I guess if you want a really glossy plastic phone but hate AMOLED screens and you like the buttons on the back this is the one for you and you'd like all the features of the phone to end with on in capital letters boom LG just created your dream device I do like the one feature i like which they cribbed from nokia from years ago is the double tap to wake you just tap my phone twice and it wakes up which is like it's such a brain dead simple feature that I wish every single phone had yeah now that you know what's nice I don't know knock on feature not the latest xperia smartphones have it but i know that the experience that tablet has double tap to wake I've never seen under the xperia phone unless they've been updated since i've used them um but yeah i'm the same way as you would it's like if you can do it in tablet it makes perfect sense you should be able to do it on the phone and I'm a hundred percent with you like we can actually do away with the power button if we just had double tap to wake like you could have a software button or software functionality something that you can have when the quick toggles many or whatever to turn the screen enough I'll EE that would be really annoying guys can we talk about a much more important aspect of the g2 launch which is that 20 were injured in a g2 launch events where was it this is in Korea right this is in Korea yeah um you know I'm pretty fuzzy on the details on that one so that I think the deal was that they tied g2's to helium-filled balloons and then like a bunch of people showed up with BB guns and started shooting at the balloons oh man and it's just yeah and then and then a bunch of people got hurt LG apologized he was big it was big deal but the bottom line is that uh 20 people getting injured at a launch event for your device does not bode well for uh for the device muro dem associate or man is publicity even kind of indecisive you're right it casts a pall on the on the device uh it is the web I'd put it I would not personally be keen on endorsing a product that had injured 20 innocent civilians but that well you know what Chris no no it's cuz I'm really harsh but no it's actually gonna ask concern to the place because you know in order for you to be able to endorse the device your first qualification is that you have to know pretty much nothing about okay that's what we found out with guys like Robert Downey jr. and all of the other celebrity endorsements that we've seen and yes I am using this is a awesome segue to talk about HTC's new promo campaign which is silly and daft but I don't know might appeal to some people which is without any journey the the problem I mean HTC is not a stranger to what I would consider to be like edgy aggressive uh marketing the the problem is that I feel like the only the only way that a company can get a lot of attention for its it's a smartphone ad campaign is by saying something really dumb about Apple products which is what which is what Samsung uh you know milked for a very long time and apart from that I don't know if there's material impact on on on say I mean who knows maybe Robert Downey jr. was the secret sauce is the missing piece and HTC's puzzle who knows I mean he is a popular guy he kicked the cocaine habit years ago he's cleaned up he's you knows iron man he's iron man he was really Chaplin up on that front but to me he's not very clean because he used to in those asa phones around i am man really so he's already dabbled in the industry is already value brand but you know there is something that just really disappoints me about the world about the fact that you can just get somebody pay them a whole heap of money to pretend to care about your device and then all of us can view these things maybe we're entertained by the mega winner and then just kind of at least subconsciously think well this is the phone that Robert Downey jr. pretended to like in an effort so that's part of my purchasing decision guys I I hate to interrupt breaking news the LG view 3 specs of leaked whoa 5.2 inch four by three display oh oh he's blessed me again Snapdragon 800 so it's literally a g2 that they stretched right like they stretched it horizontally yeah it better be a party in the back is all going to stay but it better be a party in the back and better have a capacitive stylus it and instead of instead of an actual digitizer but those are the two hallmarks for me of a good view Chris as far as I'm concerned this device shows that LG has bolts so to me the LG g2 basically now acknowledges the fact that that company has posed the name that is and I was talking about the view is still ok I'm sure I'm just saying like you feel so badly with the view so many times ok maybe the affair was battling career but doing it again just persisting with this failure of a device is beautiful and the best part about it is that i can i would put i would bet somebody a crisp ten-dollar bill 10 US dollars that it's going to be a verizon exclusive in you privatize and call the first one they had a special name for it right I can't hear it's like totally escaped me and I've never actually seen what a in a verizon store or B being actually used by a human Verizon actually sewed the optimist for you it's called it was called the intuition maybe yeah how does the way I think yeah no algae into into a cheese's you guys are kidding me I think it was it was sold for under a month a month I would imagine because like it came out so long after the view actually debuted yeah that like it wasn't basically a full cycle behind the view debuted at like mobile world congress in February and it can it like launched and Verizon in like October of that year so it was like a full eight months or something silly like that yeah that's great anyway let's acknowledge to a little correction Chris was saying earlier that LG might have be one of the first to have a 720p display maybe it was down with me it was probably me what so we have somebody CC get in touch with us urgently urgently stressing the fact that the regime was the first 17 hey that was not me eyes up to i see i would never get a fact incorrect on this program buddy value the sanctity of the verdi me too much this is coming from the guy who confused time cop in time crisis so I i I'm gonna say it was probably me that that messed up that that little stat there um but I will stand by the fact that LG was the first dual core phone yeah yeah that's right suck up ah no scoop on that it was code the LG star like way back in a day the lucky gold star star you did get a scoop on that and of course that phone went on to become the the absolutely spectacular g2x which is a phone that appeared to be made out of silly putty I owned one for several months and it like it like everything was coming off of it it was like what it it's one of the first one of the worst not just phones but one of the worst pieces of consumed electron in my life if you guys are deciding to the audio only of this or are little listen to it later or listen to after the show and you're only listen to audio you just missed probably one of the best hand gestures from chris sigler ever and he was describing the silly putty g2 or g2x worst worst fun i think probably the worst I've ever and that that's going all the way back to like my sony zuma in 1998 and my motorola lifestyle before that I told it is I am sorry Chris I know I know I had a part in letting you know about that fight so I apologize i was excited about it like I I went down to the tmobile store and voluntarily issued them currency in exchange for that it wasn't like it was a review unit like this was a real phone that I bought and yeah it was just awful hysterical and never got upgraded like I I think was i think paul o'brien of modaco in the UK who is a good friend of the site in just generally good human being um he gave me a build of gingerbread for the g2x what it appears you yeah out of pity but it was what it was like everyone thought it was about to be released for the g 2 x and then it ended up being released like a year like literally like year later and i was like wow you know like thank god uh Paul Bryant me of course I didn't have the g2x very long anyway cuz I you know it literally came apart my hands like silly putty right like silly buddy but you know what all LG needed to do was put back buttons on the back and they were golden they were good to go so I'm glad that the g2 is rectified but I have the stuck right now by all the stock need to do yeah glad icon over here they'll be back Vladek on yeah excuse me um so we had a report go up this last week about tracking the ubuntu smartphone um the edge which was announced was it three weeks ago now and they a buncha was raising money through indiegogo campaign needed to raise 32 million dollars in a month in order to produce this thing and unfortunately it doesn't look like it's going to hit that goal um based on I look pretty sure not to hate to go have either of you contributed to this campaign no I can't say I have yeah I haven't either i feel like i have um bye you know wishing it well contributed good glad tidings and advice yeah but on your let me ask you on your tax returns every year do you deduct wishing well like is that is that a tax-deductible line item like fruit for charity you know what you you can tease me about that but yahoo revealed the details in terms of its tumblr acquisition and it spent 750 million dollars on goodwill that's how many bought tumblr so my wishing well i think that CEO level performance and waiting about it what does i wish i did said i wish that it said like we spent 750 million on goodwill another 200 on good tidings 50 million on like sheer seriously when you actually like listen to the things that some CEOs come out with you know the speeches and the rah-rah the stuff is like how much better is it how much more work and contribution are they making or somebody like me saying well it would be nice if they made it you know shrug your shoulders yeah i mean the thing that's going to happen would do a bunch of a jury is it's either going to fail in this campaign if everything carries honest it's going i mean it's desperately desperately off track it's its highest day of earnings with his first day every day since then if it's slower and slower and slower so it's really never going to happen nobody really expected them to make 32 million in 30 days the only thing that can serve as a campaign is just to have like one big way or investor jump in and say okay i'll give you guys like 24 million and pursue this which I wouldn't rule out there are enough like I'd start up people out there that like maybe someone is gonna be like yeah I'd like to see this happen I mean it shouldn't like it I don't know the personal wealth of Canonical's mark shuttleworth who is kind of like that the head of ubuntu if it had one uh but like you know pony up if you want I mean I it's just that was a stupid thing to say so I take that back but you know no no I'm sorry if Jeff Bezos can just buy the washington post without having any idea what it wants to do with it I think CEOs of you know spare cash to like fro 20 min another sport wait wait wait mark shuttleworth is worth half a billion dollars occurring oh well in that case in Episode II up man like if you want to make this happen you know you right now I'm looking at the campaign there at 9.8 million dollars or almost nine point nine million dollars there's eight days left and they need to 32 million um you know time time to write a 23 million dollar check he spent I am I know imma hang on how much did he spend to go to space he spent he spent twenty million dollars to go to space exactly that's exactly how much it needs to complete this campaign boom it's like what just just you know take one year off from space holidays why and you've got your friggin mobile phone platform yes exactly but you know you know I would actually be kind of offended and I'll feel betrayed if he does pull that as like a last day maneuver like maybe he all along planned whatever is left over I'll just Pat it out and we have a big success in yadda yadda yadda because then I mean I don't know me all the perk perks and packs that go along with being listed on a crowdfunding site will be appealing to people and they'll feel more involved by funding it etc etc but if you had the money to get this project going you should be spending that money already you should be getting our project go like they can't afford to be standing around waiting for money to come in well so there are a couple things to consider here right at white Vlad I think you probably know more about the backstory than I do but I don't know if there's any like basis to the 32 million number if they just pull that out of thin air as an arbitrary goal and two unlike Kickstarter canonical can actually take the the full balance minus V actually I'm going to stop you right there Chris because that's how I what I thought too but actually was informed this afternoon that it depends on the campaign that you do on IndieGoGo and Canonical's campaign actually says it right there on right below contributed yeah it's a fixed funding campaign which means that if all 32 million isn't reached canonical good zip uh-huh so interesting well I wonder what the what the basis is is the 32 million figure because yeah that's a very good question like I would have guessed that producing developing a top and high-end smartphone like this is supposed to be soup to nuts from beginning end would cost more than 32 million dollars right oh yeah but obviously they have their own funds that their own reserves their own investments etc etc but I also do you think that is kind of you know very rough estimate and I just kind of write that a figure and said okay we'll do that I mean to me it's kind of like the top stuff that the US did it's like how many billions and trillions of dollars do we need to rescue the economy I don't know like 1,000,000,000,000 seven trillion I don't really know and it's like I just feel like they're doing it this same thing like nobody's going to be able to I Timaeus how they go to spend 30 million in order to deliver smartphone yeah i don't i just can't care that much about this phone i know there are people who are like really into i mean every time we write about this phone it gets a ton of interest and comments and traction in general but yeah we're actually surprised every time how much interest there actually is in the the above to device yeah and I mean like from a from a purely philosophical standpoint I understand the interest and like don't get me wrong like some of the UX elements that they're the Canonical's trying to push our cool and Vlad I know you played with the with it but uh if I I mean do we really want to like I am so far beyond the point where like I can get excited about a cool brand new platform because we've just been burned too many times at this point wow that's absolutely correct absolutely right and any other if you remember the Yolo guys you know the ones you're trying to resurrect me go they're trying to do something similar as well yeah and it's just the case that at this point mobile software I mean if there was food as ever this year has all these issues that bogus and annoys but it has involved they has moved forward like when you mentioned gingerbread I kind of you know shivered a little bit because those were dark days man those were the days will you really really needed you're freaking android update fix yes everything was busted and wrong cuz okay I don't know how the g two x's on tmobile but in Europe the g2 it would crash just by looking at it the wrong way there's a nightmare yeah and the fingers we don't have those issues anymore and this is the reason why I Android can go so long still kind of iterating gradually instead of having these major massive upgrades and updates things things have reached a high level of competence now so the reason you're not getting excited is the reason I'm not getting excited when I try to bring you back in january i think i was showing off for Nexus S or Galaxy Nexus it had all these nice little gestures and you I interactions and things like that but it was laggy you know and if you're not going to show people a snappy quick performance that goes along with a nice inventive UI and paradigm then they're just not going to get excited because they won't both the quality and the inventiveness together you can't just give him one or the other I mean I guess we were just kind of two pickets but it's just why why why saddle yourself with the poor experience when there's better options in the market that's just something that it's okay and yeah we are talking about people spending their money right and and did not like us they're not going to go through you know two dozen phones for reviews and as Chris put it so beautifully issuing currency to mobile phone shops right so you only buy one for a year or whatever and ultimately you want to get whatever causes you the least paint its country with everything in life come to think of it pretty much that's why we don't all live in Hawaii man it might be a pretty awesome idea but it's like yeah well you know what on the beach I don't know about that yeah just be boring you know like weather is always good like you know yours fishing all day at some point gonna be like you know I want I want some action I want a nice nice nor'easter to come through here just just mess mess my stuff up right I mean it the only reason the other thing that's actually holding back from Hawaii is that I think the internet there is like completing utter garbage so you could go there but you'd only be able to offer like tweets yeah so that would be it that's all the bandwidth you'd have sunny today like yesterday sofa surfers good yeah yeah hang out under the palm trees pick some avocados Tokiko Hawaii I think so well no no they're mostly in like the color glass yeah southwest u.s. yeah California and then like parts of South America I think um I think that you know what you can find in Hawaii is a nice coconut if you're into that sort of thing and of course pineapple yeah the iconic uh Hawaiian fruit the pineapple you know but I'm thinking maybe there aren't any actual avocados in Hawaii but I think it from has a climate for it and now the idea of being of an avocado farm owned in Hawaii is really startin to abuse me and Vlad you could specialize you could become like a windows like hybrid like crossbreeding experts and like make the stone smaller on smaller so like your whole-- like claim to fame will be like oh my avocados have like the most flesh because they have a tiny stone inside it's a great point it's square foot which actually makes me wonder how do other colors reproduce well when two avocados love each other very much they make them a great big commitments to each other uh and they get married yes I get married couple of avocado sequence Erica do they have to be a male in a FEMA of akkad oh I i well you know our fortunately our country is becoming more progressive and now that that's no longer the case this is getting really weird you have any more fun stuff to talk because of a pile of Windows Phone news talk about so I eyewitness foes try to join us segue into this and like I can't I can't get myself to do that there's a you know updates are coming to Windows Phone that include things like rotation lock and text message thinking to your computer which is a bona fide useful features that we always seem to like every time we see see it shown somewhere and right now you can get big weather news sports and finance apps on your windows phone so no no good night know if you've been waiting for those that was my listen to are you interested in any of these Bing apps the answer is no I mean rotation lock that was the for me that was the you know that was the deal maker like that was like you know i used i use the 1020 and I'm like man you know it sounds perfect but there's no rotation lock so you know I put the phone aside and like so this is really exciting news for me I have this look all kidding aside at this point I'm waiting for Windows Phone 9 that all these incremental updates are not going to change my opinion about the platform like it's just not so I mean in again like I know the windows phone is great for a lot of people i know the apps are like ninety percent of the way in tom we'll get we'll talk about this but Tom had a great piece on these inventive developers or like trying to close the gaps but as someone who's like super heavily invested in the Google ecosystem like the ongoing like cold relationship between these two companies is just making lot lives of Google users very difficult you know it's funny I got I've got like an anecdotal relate thing I can relate to that it's and it's this weekend I switched my wife over from her iphone 4s to my nexus 4 because she'd been complaining about her for us as governor issues or whatever size put it over there and because she uses Google services it was one of the most seamless transitions ever her contacts our calendar her email everything is just like you know I had her sign in and it's done I and you know you couldn't really do that on Windows Phone certainly not as seamlessly and as easily as you could say just switching between iOS and Android right yeah it's a problem and and and to put you know to put either my wife is not a techie person at all she's very much a normal user who uses her phone for facebook and pinterest so uh you know it's it's not just you know people who are super tech-heavy like maybe we are having very interested in in gadgets and tech that are in that situation there's a lot of normal people that at the exact same situation yeah and it's cut its kind of another situation before Microsoft as well I think because the company's been so used to just being so dominant that everybody being familiar with Windows now is facing the same situation with Google exactly what you just rated then in the fact that you use all the google web services and then you go to android and whatever your level familiarity with smartphones there is something that you're familiar with there is thing but there are things that you just plug into you know you have one log in and boom all of a sudden you have your ducks you drive etc etc your gmail and i don't think that there's population this massive people who are similarly fully invested into into the micros microsoft ecosystem so it's like canada sync outlook email etc using all of those services i don't think i agree with that i think and it might be skewed all it because you know that is a very vocal population would hear from those people a lot so I I don't have a good read on how many people are actually in that world in the wild but certainly at least from a corporate perspective there there are companies who are completely built on a Microsoft stack maybe maybe that's less true for people who are just like you know building their personal lives around a particular platform they're probably less likely to change like you say you know onenote outlook etc etc than they are at Google but as a corporate device Windows Phone certainly makes a lot of sense for a lot of people yeah I mean I mean I was talking about the personal side as well yeah and let's not bash Microsoft services like I really think once they redesign them they've worked pretty well like a leukemia works well OneNote is very nice those are good services I just don't think that there are people whose entire again personal lives revolve around that like even the guys who come in and destroy us for being such pipes of haters would be like Microsoft fanboy and gmail com that would be the English resi they might not accept it admit it but there we use even Steve job Barbara gmail com yeah well let's talk about Tom's report about these windows phone developers I found this really interesting tom went out and talked to a bunch of Windows Phone developers that are behind these like third-party replacement apps for these big platforms that are not yet on Windows Phone so third party Instagram apps third party vine apps what have you I mean if if there's not an official app available for Windows Phone chances are there's a developer who's picked up the torch and is trying their hardest to may bring that experience to the Windows Phone platform through these third-party apps but they have a lot of struggles with that they you know are obviously not in on the inside door of development at the company so like they don't know what instagrams next move is they don't know where they're going exactly Instagram could arbitrarily change things which happened a couple weeks ago and all of a sudden these apps stopped working because these apps offense essentially reverse engineer these Instagram api's and and a slight change can just render them useless so it's almost like you know I feel bad for these guys see that are developing these ass because say it's it's and they say this that they do this not really to make a profit but just because they want to get more people on Windows Phone platform and I think one of them said that you know I gave my my significant other Windows Phone device and she wanted to use whatever it was pinterest or vine or something and the app didn't exist so I went out and wrote one which is like you know such a like a great story in a heartwarming thing but like it seems like there it's just a losing battle to me yeah if losing battle and there's also it isn't it certainly isn't universally true but there are cases where developers have run into legal trouble with their apps but I guess I mean like what's the vine app six seconds or whatever I think so yeah yeah like that that's still working as far as I know yeah and to clarify the the problem with Instagram that happened a few weeks ago Instagram actually changed things back to the way they were so those Instagram apps are working once again but it's just an example of you know that could happen in the future again you know all right as Instagram updates its platform rolls out new apps for iOS and Android uh it's not concerned about what happened some windows phone if it doesn't have an official presence sir right well instance was the name of that application on Windows Phone yeah I mean I I think you know I I certainly don't want to advocate for companies like like Twitter and Facebook to pull you know to cause these apps to get pulled but you can kind of see it from their perspective that like you know for from a user's perspective the the experience that they have and end up like uploading a vine or uploading Instagram through these third party and supported tools is still kind of like part and parcel with using Instagram and Vine and if it's not a great experience then that reflects poorly on Instagram vine right so they're playing it so that can be one of the reasons why these companies ultimately ask these apps to get pulled and that's always a risk for these guys which sucks for everybody but you know from the users perspective quite often these apps are paid apps and and so that you know you might just lose your mom any moment right and to be fair you know a lot of times in order to make these apps work the developer has to invest considerable resources in not only developing and writing the app and reverse engineering anything but frequently they require a middleman server that needs to be run and maintained yeah and that and and so that the developer does have cost it's not like they're just trying to scam somebody have two bucks because they want to use Instagram on the Windows Phone but from a user perspective if you've paid two dollars for this app you kind of have an expectation that it'll work and there's always that chance that it'll stop working right yeah but the thing is the developer any well I know about the user the developer is an old anything by guys like Instagram and Twitter and exactly as Chris was saying like we usually take the more Communist side on this podcast but in this case it's kind of like if an app makes your user experience I mean vine is just so limited it's kind of a joke to me but if an app makes you use experience seem worse than it actually is if it you know degenerates your brand you're fully entitled to you know get rid of it and I'll you know if necessary else Microsoft to take measures to make those apps incompatible the person or the company that everybody needs to be pointed fingers and question marks do is basically Microsoft because they're the ones responsible for the platform and that that platform has the developers who want to do things it it has the users who want to use those services but as we were saying a week or two ago but not get being frustrated with Microsoft things just are moving quickly enough particular with the official software because that's the other thing the guys who are fans of windows phone right now essentially wasting their time you know doing things that should be there anyway it should be an official instagram app they should be an official app for all of these things microsoft should i mean that's the other thing I've kind of interrupting myself here but Microsoft has the money and the moment Microsoft really isn't make it with us from profitable to my knowledge it's my understanding so why not take a big incentivize the hell out of Kazakh Instagram and everybody else to be on your platform to have a proper fully functioning app you spend as much as you need to spend but they're doing and then what they have on the upstair be because I think in some cases they're just like no like what we don't want to like you know that we don't want to bother supporting a platform that we're not seeing enough enough traction on because you know that Microsoft has been behind the scenes hustling everybody really high and they always talk about at every event at every developer event they're like you know we got 47 out of the 50 top apps we're working on the others like you know they're definitely out there pounding the pavement trying to get these guys on board and I I'm positive that there are blank checks involved like especially for the big guys like Instagram no question about it but it's just the whole story with Instagram is just kind of amusing because of how much Microsoft worked with facebook to integrate facebook into the whole Windows Phone platform and and net there's still this huge component of face that Facebook owns that is missing and they can't see now get that two to work together so that that just kind of strikes me is like obviously Microsoft and Facebook have talked about windows phone before you know it's just not not not happening i guess it's weird again let me ask you what what's your give us here your your your 30-second overview of the the weather app situation on windows phone is it good as a bad doesn't need help um so it's been a while since i've checked out the latest weather ask for windows phone but there's actually some really cool ones on there that that good design and they got they make use of the live tiles really well so i would say that the weather app situation is actually better than you would say like maybe the main street map situation okay i think if i if i converted to Windows Phone weather apps would not be the thing that I was hurting for okay it's because because the thing like with Windows Phone is that there is a focus on design in the platform then there is a focus in aesthetics and making it look good and a lot of the third party app developers that are worth their salt try to do their best to follow that and to you know provide apps that that are aesthetically pleasing and and weather apps going to lend themselves to that nature and so there are a bunch of weather apps that do look good and make use of the live tiles and are informative and cool and all that fun stuff so right blackberry 10 another story yeah i think the n is shaping up to wrap up the podcast because he just took us to our usual down note i'm at i'm not downer yeah i think we are wrapped actually so we've been we've been going for a good while here this week so that is the verge mobile show for this week this is August thirteenth we thank you guys for listening or tuning in if you want you can follow us on Twitter of course I'm DC seifert vladas flat 7 of chris is e power and dieter is back lon and of course feel free to drop a comment in the post and we'll check you guys out next time later right