When science and food collide: a conversation with Wylie Dufresne
When science and food collide: a conversation with Wylie Dufresne
2013-09-19
what is wd-50 my intention when opening
wd-50 was to have a place where I could
continue my culinary education where I
could dig a little deeper a lot deeper
in fact and get a better understanding
of the many things that make up cooking
the physics the biology the chemistry of
cooking to create a place where I could
I could continue my culinary education
which began many years before and to
create a place where my cooks could
continue their culinary education we
could grow and learn together in these
than you've been in there cooking for 22
years about 22 years I've been there in
20 yeah how many restaurants is uh have
I worked out you worked at and that's a
good question I'd have to go back and
count but I started cooking I mean
that's professionally I started working
in restaurants when I was 11 so I'll in
in and out of restaurant since I was a
little kid when you open a restaurant do
you feel like you're saying you keep
deep a deeper understanding I do you
feel like you've grown in leaps and
bounds since you guys open or is it just
more adjusting your original idea both I
mean we've stayed true to our original
idea but we've grown leaps and bounds
meaning our understanding of cooking has
deepened too greatly yeah what you know
we know more today that we did yesterday
and we knew more yesterday we did five
years ago and more five years ago than
we do etc etc and then you can go back
like about I didn't know 30 years
40 years then you get to like the dark
ages we're really nobody know what they
were doing yeah and we've been cooking
for thousands of years without really
much of an understanding particularly in
our own world as professionals there
have been people outside of the culinary
world outside of restaurants that have
been interested in understanding food
and food science and the chemistry
that's behind all of that I mean
Clarence Birdseye knew more about frozen
food in 1919 than you and I do today so
that's interesting that we can we can
learn something from him and anybody
else I mean we're always were you know
we realized that we had to go outside of
our discipline for the answers to our
questions because he just still to this
day don't really exist that much within
our own field but there are lots of
people out there that have some answers
that we can benefit from
something that's become ever ever
present in many restaurants around the
world is called an immersion circulator
it's kind of like a tiny outboard motor
it almost even looks like one that noise
is a not a propeller but an impeller so
it's taking the water in its heating it
and then spitting it back out so it's
heating the water to 82.7 degrees what
do you guys all looking at any you cook
whatever you want but you're controlling
the water temperature down to a tenth of
a degree so that allows very precise and
accurate cooking and this is again this
is something that's been in the lab for
decades but it just fairly recently
found its way into kitchens worldwide
and it's become a very popular form of a
very controlled cook
you feel like they just said I don't
know if you read this article Bert the
lab ground burger yeah do you think that
something like that is taking it too far
that's not so interesting to me um I
think that there might be some value in
the technology of growing an animal that
way I mean that I can't say what it is
but I'm imagining it may be that that we
could benefit from that I get it's
almost like cloning sort of yeah um I'm
not necessarily interested in a burger
that was grown in a lab I mean I that's
not compelling to me I like the idea of
the cow and the life cycle that it goes
through and how it you know how it lives
on in it in the way you eat it you know
once that animal is slaughtered it still
lives on in a way in that you try to you
know honor its various parts and cook
them in responsible ways and serve
delicious food I think at that point
you're sort of honoring the animal the
Beast I think it's a little disconnected
and certainly kind of creepy yeah that
your food could just be grown in a petri
dish I mean there might be some value in
being able to create food for people
that are hungry or impoverished or
something I don't know I'm just sort of
maybe speculating how that technology
could be useful but I don't I'm not
looking to have our meat be supplied by
a lab yeah that that's not that's not
compelling to me it's a little creepy
yeah you know and I know you mentioned
that the name of saying a molecular
gastronomist is not what you would
consider yourself that the modernist
cuisine is a more proper term imed oh
really I'm not hung up on on the title
but a modern cooking a modern American
cooking contemporary cooking all of
those things are fine with me the issue
I have with molecular gastronomy is sort
of twofold hey it doesn't sound
delicious if it's a Friday night and I'm
like you know you oughta God for dinner
night you a long week I want you want to
go have ty you're gonna go have pizza or
do you want to get some molecular
gastronomy like I mean there's no one's
ever going to say molecular kasoor must
be r going to go huh although I do think
that there's a growing understanding in
the in the the pop in that people
understand when you seem like an
astronomy like okay we're going to go
for that kind of experimental thing
however it not only does it not sound
delicious it doesn't it doesn't
disservice because molecular gastronomy
is a field of scientific study practice
by scientists so to call a mullet to
refer to me as a molecular gastronomist
that's like so you want to go have
biology for dinner you know what I i we
don't we benefit from the knowledge for
the information that the molecular
gastronomist can provide us and it's a
group of people who are a group of
scientists who want to have a deeper
understanding of what's happening to a
souffle when it rises and state when it
grills and etc etc etc etc and as they
begin to break that down and put it in a
language that the lay person like myself
can understand
and we can take that knowledge and say
okay now I get it this is what's
happening in a souffle this is the
temperature at which a steak will begin
to get dry and I have that information
and I can do with that what i want i can
either intentionally make it dry or i
can avoid that temperature how have the
advancements in technology in in the
field of molecular astronomy or just in
general helped you evolve as a chef well
insofar as we've gone outside our own
industry and talk to other people
whether it be molecular gastronomist
food scientists commercial food
processors etc etc those people bring
knowledge information and equipment into
the kitchen now the kitchen has always
had a very positive relationship with
technology kitchens are great places for
technology to to be I mean think of a
knife a stove a microwave a blender a
food processor etc etc etc these are all
all things that have become part of the
repertoire of a cook so we've always had
a very good relationship with technology
and kitchens are have always sort of
embraced the idea of an upgrade and and
that has that continues today with
equipment not only information but as
you mentioned equipment that's come in
to the kitchen that that maybe wouldn't
have come would have maybe come at a
slower rate but wouldn't have come as
quickly had it not been for you know for
the scientists things like commercial
circulators rotary evaporators
centrifuges these are all things that
just increase the sort of the battery of
equipment in a kitchen that a cook has
access to how recent has it been that
we've really seen like more and more of
these tools in kitchens I'd say the last
15 years we've seen specifically
equipment coming from scientific
laboratories
into the kitchen but again there's
always been a relationship between the
kitchen and technology we've always been
eager to embrace things I mean think of
like a handheld drill or handheld tool
now we have handheld the hand blenders
and things like that yeah you know
that's just sort of a cross over that
that technology handheld
battery-operated that's been something
that you know it's not hard for me to
see that a carpenter is using a handheld
drill and so a cook is using a handheld
blender you know that that's a very
simple sideway sidestep that makes
perfect sense I wish I'd thought of it
it's like a good business opportunity
but um again I think in general kitchens
have always been ready to say oh wow
that's a that's a food processor that's
great I mean I could chop this onion in
five minutes or I could put it in the
food processor and I could chop it in
five seconds do you feel like the
customer the the restaurant Gore has
evolved over time and well I think yes I
think absolutely i think that the the
diner has always been interested in sort
of the source of their food where their
food is coming from you know that it's
somehow farm responsibly but i also
think there's even more of a dialogue a
discussion of that i think for a long
time it was just sort of presumed you
had a nice restaurant they're using nice
ingredients yeah sort of a Don't Ask
Don't Tell kind of policy but you know
the world is getting smaller and in the
the access to information is getting
easier and so people are are asking
where's my fish from what what did my
steak eat before it came to me not only
a lot as well as how did you prepare it
you know how did it get like this or you
know there's there's yes I think the
diner has become more sophisticated more
educated more aware of the world at
large and so they're bringing more
knowledge to the table to and expecting
us I think to intern keep up with that
you
you
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